(re)introducing the FanPost editor

by Trei Brundrett on Feb 25, 2008 9:54 PM PST Comment 55 comments

When I first introduced the features of the new platform that y'all call AN 3.0 around here, I only briefly mentioned the new editor we created for authoring and publishing FanPosts. We didn't really give y'all many details on how the new editor was different from the old one or any tips on how the new options we gave you worked exactly. Still many of y'all jumped right into authoring FanPosts with these new tools quickly prompting questions, bug reports and a bit of frustration. Some of you figured it out and helped everyone else out. We were listening to all that feedback and also attempting to provide answers in the comment threads. Over the past week we've been working on two things:

Writing a quick guide that we could build into the FanPost composing screen and also a longer screen shot illustrated FanPost help guide that explains everything in more detail.
Fixing a few bugs, adding some helpful labels, upgrading our WYSIWYG software and generally tuning the FanPost editor a bit based on what we heard from y'all.

Just like before when I brought y'all changes to the comment system, asked for feedback and y'all responded in the accompanying open thread - I come to the AN community once again seeking the same help.

First, read the FanPost help guide we've assembled. We tried to explain everything you'd need to know to write, style, tag and publish a great FanPost. If something isn't clear or we didn't answer a question you have, post a comment here and let us know.

Also, check out the new quick help guide - you'll find it on the 'New FanPost' screen by clicking the '?' icon on the top right or the 'Editor Help' link just below the text area. Are we missing anything in there? Is there something we should add? Don't be shy - post a comment to tell us what we can do to improve it.

And most importantly, after you've read the new help guide, try out the FanPost editor again or maybe for the first time. How do you like it? What can we add, remove, change? We're looking for detailed feedback, just like the kind y'all have been giving us for the last few weeks.

Thanks! We really appreciate the help.

6 recs | Comment 55 comments

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Comments

Link to the FanPost help guide...

...does not appear to work.

by Flashfire on Feb 25, 2008 10:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

thanks, just fixed that

I'm one of the guys that built the new SB Nation

by Trei Brundrett on Feb 25, 2008 10:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Now available in widescreen?

Oh. Guess not. :-|

by mikev on Feb 25, 2008 11:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I just posted a new FanPost

I started with the WYSIWYG editor, but ended up using the HTML editor by the time I was finished because:
1. The ~~strikeout type~~ displayed in the editor, but not in the preview screen.
2. I didn't see how to create tables with the WYSIWYG editor.

Otherwise, it's a nice looking editor and very easy to use. Note to everyone - you will need to enable popups for sbnation.com for the previewer to work.

"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick, 10/7/07

by doctorK on Feb 26, 2008 12:10 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

You shouldn't need to read

that in order to make a ~~FanPost~~ diary. If those instructions are necessary, maybe the ~~FanPost~~ diary editor is too complicated or not intuitive enough.

Also, we need support for tables. Like, right away.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 26, 2008 7:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

tables

you should be able to write or paste table tags in HTML view. we have a few issues with losing table attributes like border and bgcolor, but we'll have a fix for that shortly. are you seeing any other problems with our support for tables?

I'm one of the guys that built the new SB Nation

by Trei Brundrett on Feb 27, 2008 7:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Support for < tt > or < pre >

tags would be a huge plus.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 27, 2008 7:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ah, good call

I thought we had been....looking into that right away

I'm one of the guys that built the new SB Nation

by Trei Brundrett on Feb 27, 2008 8:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

support for <pre> tag is back now

you can insert it in HTML and also we added it to the format drop-down menu in WYSIWYG

I'm one of the guys that built the new SB Nation

by Trei Brundrett on Feb 29, 2008 5:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm going to take this out for a test drive

sometime in the next 48 hours. If your responses to the faNpoST editor concerns are anything like your responses to other 3.0 issues, things should be much better. My hopes are up.

There is an A in Whimsy.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Feb 26, 2008 8:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

In both FanPost editor and comments

I miss being able to use /slahes/ to get italic. I always type in HTML mode, and I find it easier to type the codes than switch to the mouse and use the buttons.

Since the upgrade, slashes don't work and I have to type out and , which is a nuisance.

Same thing for *asterisks* for bold, _underlines_ for underline, and -hyphens- for strikeout.

Any chance of getting this functionality back? Or is there some larger issue that makes it unworkable now?

formerly known as mdl

by iglew on Feb 26, 2008 10:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

this one little post

about tripled my knowledge of HTML. Awesome!

"Don't be an ass!" --Bill King

by batgirl on Feb 26, 2008 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hear, hear.

I miss those shortcuts, too.

Anyone worth hurting is worth hurting well.

by Poppy on Feb 26, 2008 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't type angle bracket now either?

I used & l t ; and & g t ; in my original comment, and in the preview it showed up properly as and .

Now I'm at work looking at my comment and I see the and are being interpreted, in spite of the fact that I spelled out the codes for them. That's not how it was before.

What trick is available to us now if we want to type out examples of HTML code for others to view?

formerly known as mdl

by iglew on Feb 26, 2008 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure if this is just in the DLD today...

... but the link in salb's post subs & amp;amp; (without the space between & and amp;amp;) for & in the link itself, so the link is broken.

by RickeySteals on Feb 26, 2008 1:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

thanks

we're aware and fixing it

I'm one of the guys that built the new SB Nation

by Trei Brundrett on Feb 27, 2008 7:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This fuckin sucks

I'm sorry, I know you're trying. But I just spent hours torturing over a Diary which, after all that, looks like shit, rife with undesired spaces, inscrutable error codes, and my fingers eyes and brain are numb from the painstakingly tedious process of individually inserting dozens of links and pictures.

In the old days I could write a complicated DLD in Word, with html codes (just links and pics, nothing fancy), copy it into the Diary writing windows, and presto, success. Now neither WYSIWYG or HTML will accept that simple copy/paste with the desired results, all the links and pics have to be done one at a time with the stupid buttons...why has this been made so hard? This transcends bug reports...why? Why!?

List of things which are harder and/or worse than they used to be--diaries only: Pictures. Links. Embedded video. Text formatting. Spacing. Recommendations (who likes it?)

List of things that are easier/better about FanPosts:

Seriously, what has been gained by making this so much harder? I can't think of a single thing. Fuck it.

There is an A in Whimsy.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Feb 27, 2008 12:37 AM PST reply actions 1 recs

Like I said,

if you need to read a three page "tips" document, it ain't worth it.

Also, I can't find anything. What's going on with the search function?

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 27, 2008 7:17 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

tips

AN 2 also had a useful integrated help guide that explained all of the formatting shortcuts, etc. we thought that was clever and useful for those who didn't know HTML or textile so we created our own version.

Any specific feedback on the search function is also appreciated.

I'm one of the guys that built the new SB Nation

by Trei Brundrett on Feb 27, 2008 7:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Specific feedback on the search function:

"There isn't one."

Okay, I'll be more specific...

I know for a fact that I've used the phrase "golden unicorns" in a comment (it's in this game thread... just trust me, don't worry about actually trying to find it, because I can only link to the whole, long thread, not just one comment).

In AN 2.0, if I typed "golden unicorns" (even without quote marks) into the search box, it would give me results that included links any comment, story or diary where that phrase appeared.

In AN 3.0, if I type golden unicorns (without quote marks), it only gives me a link to this story, where baseballgirl used the words "unicorns" and "golden," but not together. Okay. I type "golden unicorns" in quotes, and I get nothing.

We'd like a search function that will look in comments, too, AND enable us to also search within results. Whatever AN 2.0's search function did, plus. We've got minus, from something that wasn't very good to begin with.

Anyone worth hurting is worth hurting well.

by Poppy on Feb 27, 2008 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

thanks for that feedback

I appreciate you being specific about how you're trying to search

I'm one of the guys that built the new SB Nation

by Trei Brundrett on Feb 27, 2008 12:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

with your feedback we can make it better

I'm sorry you're so frustrated with the new editor. It's definitely different than what y'all had before and we are working hard to tune it so that it supports the way everyone authors and formats their contributions to the site.

Hopefully we can work with you with you to get the type of detailed feedback we need to improve the experience.

I'm one of the guys that built the new SB Nation

by Trei Brundrett on Feb 27, 2008 7:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll continue to follow up with you offline

I'd like to address this on two fronts: first, working through the bugs and challenges with you to make the system better. I continue to appreciate your responsiveness here

But second, and this is more Blez Co than you folks, I think, I really would like to know what the benefit of the "upgrade" is supposed to be, specifically regarding FanPosts, not the larger 3.0 change. I honestly can't find a single benefit, and I see lots of costs. Change for change's sake, when it makes a difficult fix to something which wasn't broken, seems awfully short-sighted.

There is an A in Whimsy.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Feb 27, 2008 9:53 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

Here is the story

These were some of the goals that we referenced when having our team design the new FanPost (and Story) editor:

- Respond to the ideas submitted by the SBN bloggers: we had several
requests for a WYSIWYG editor
- Make it easier for new users: WYSIWYG no longer requires your users
to know HTML or any funny formating shortcuts to write a diary. Now it
works like Word or any word processor.
- Don't take anything good away: we offered an HTML view so that
tech-savvy users could tweak their FanPosts however they liked because
that was what you could do on AN 2
- New features shouldn't get in the way of old ones:

We never do anything with a 'change for change sake' attitude. Everything we did was bounced against those goals.

My personal experience so far has been really good with the editor. Then again, I'm not the biggest HTML guy in the world, so it's been a good thing for me.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Feb 27, 2008 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The jury is still out, of course

Thanks for your answer. We'll see where these things wind up after the excellent attention of your tech crew. But to your points, #1 regards front pagers not FanPosters. #2 seems odd, perhaps making it easier for new user to post very simple diaries at the expense of experienced users posting ~~interesting~~ complicated ones. Thus far new users aren't flocking to the bait, but it's early yet. If #2 is a different way of saying "promote new user traffic" I sure hope that doesn't come at the expense of old user traffic. Don't underestimate the value of your existing critical mass (and quite a critical mass we are, too!).

In these early stages the grades on #s 3 and 4 are horrible, but the new school year only just started.

Per monkeyball and others, thus far there is a (presumably unintended) consequence of discouraging participation, not promoting it, and particularly among the more prolific diarists. That troubles me, and I assume it troubles you too. Thanks again for responding.

There is an A in Whimsy.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Feb 27, 2008 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

If the HMTL view

would work like AN2 did, then I would be happy (and I assume others like FSU would, too). In fact, it does not. Many things behave differently.

If I had more time, I'd sit down for a few hours and test everything and make sense of its behavior, but I don't. So we'll just notice things as they come up.

What I've noticed so far is that the pseudo-Textile modifiers don't work anymore, and my accustomed methods for making html codes appear without being interpreted no longer work. For the latter, I could get used to a new method, but at the moment I'm not aware of any that work.

Suppose I want to make a comment giving an example of HTML code. How do I write it so that it appears without actually being HTML-ified?

formerly known as mdl

by iglew on Feb 27, 2008 4:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Also, comments behave differently than FanPosts

So reproducing the behavior here often won't parallel the action in the FanPost editor.

There is an A in Whimsy.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Feb 27, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

good point

adding the wysetc option seems like a good idea, but I don't see why the html option had to become more difficult.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Feb 27, 2008 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

We released a few fixes tonight

Now you ought to be able to use HTML character entities to show examples of HTML code. This previously wasn't working in comments, but should now work both here and in the FanPost editor.

I'm one of the guys that built the new SB Nation

by lovitt on Feb 27, 2008 10:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Testing that

I still wish I could use /slashes/ instead of and , but at least now I can type about it.

formerly known as mdl

by iglew on Feb 28, 2008 9:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed on all counts

I've found that all I am motivated to do now is post short replied in existing diaries ERRRR fanposts.

Was there a beta of this new and improved AN, or are we doing the beta now before it's rolled out to the rest of the blog sites?

by mikev on Feb 27, 2008 7:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

betas

there was a 'blogger beta' with all the SB Nation bloggers, but AN is the 'public beta' before we roll out to other sites. your feedback is critical to us for that reason.

I'm one of the guys that built the new SB Nation

by Trei Brundrett on Feb 27, 2008 8:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ditto that

Someone is wrong on the Internet. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 27, 2008 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

my suspicion -- and tech guys, correct me if I'm wrong --

... is that the overall goal with the fanposts/fanshots has been to ghettoize all media files to the fanshots section, and to try to make the fanposts/diaries be as close to 100% text-only as possible without actually laying down any written rules.

In any event, intentional or not, that seems to be the current function.

And I can say from my personal experience that, while I'm usually not as ambitious with the formatting and content of my posts as FSU is, I've encountered most of the problems he's identified, and as a front-page poster, I feel discouraged not only from posting anything ambitious, but from posting anything at all -- even text-only posts. The whole 3.0 setup is a massive barrier to participation, and it's not from unfamiliarity or discomfort with the transition from 2.0 to 3.0.

Someone is wrong on the Internet. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 27, 2008 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

do write your posts in Word, then paste them in as well?

also, I attempt to explain the idea behind FanShots over in this thread

I'm one of the guys that built the new SB Nation

by Trei Brundrett on Feb 27, 2008 12:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

thanks for the feedback/link

And, again, thanks for all your hard work and communication.

If it's a long (more than, say, 3 paragraphs and with video/photo links), yes, I usually work in Word (or sometimes the rudimentary Apple text edit app) and paste in to the window.

Someone is wrong on the Internet. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 27, 2008 1:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Halp!

Is it just me?

Why won't AN 3.0 let me put in just an address and make it a link? Not a link that you click on the word, just click on the address.

Test:

Link that isn't clickable: http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/funny-pictures-diver-rides-shark.jpg

Link as a word: Words

by Jennifer on Feb 27, 2008 8:03 AM PST reply actions 1 recs

we've heard that request many times

and will add it to our list of changes to the commenting system

I'm one of the guys that built the new SB Nation

by Trei Brundrett on Feb 27, 2008 8:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Another question/request or two...

(sorry, not related to the FanPost editor)

Other users have mentioned wanting to be able to quickly see replies to our own comments... we used to be able to do that in AN 2 by looking at the list of our own comments (such as what we would see now in "Recent Activity"), and it would display how many replies were on each comment, and how many of those replies were new since the last time we'd looked. The text of each reply wasn't displayed, but we could just click on our own comment link, and it would show up with all its replies. Any thought to whether we can have that function back?

Also previously mentioned: The "Recent Activity" just shows that we "posted a comment on [story/fanpost title]..." Would it be possible for that to show the subject line of the comment we posted (as it used to), not just "comment"?

Anyone worth hurting is worth hurting well.

by Poppy on Feb 27, 2008 3:50 PM PST reply actions 1 recs

+1

I miss that, too.

I think they mentioned a while back that they planned to restore this. I hope so.

formerly known as mdl

by iglew on Feb 27, 2008 4:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I suppose I shouldn't be letting the cat out of the bag ...

... but my favorite 3.0 feature is that, for site admins, when we click on a user's "Recent Activity," it includes line items like "Left desk for 3-hour meeting," "Spilled Cheetos on keyboard," "Visited restroom (#1)," "Sneezed," etc.

Someone is wrong on the Internet. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 27, 2008 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

"Drugged cat, stuffed it in bag"

Anyone worth hurting is worth hurting well.

by Poppy on Feb 27, 2008 10:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

I hope to god

that somewhere shortly after the #1 you found "washed hands".

Winner of the 2008 "find grover a new sig" contest.

by 5Aces on Feb 28, 2008 9:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

not for everyone

I will exercise discretion and simply say that you few filthy, germ-ridden slobs know who you are {cough}grover{cough}.

Someone is wrong on the Internet. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 28, 2008 8:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

They said that they were working on bringing back those features before and I wish they'd hurry up. It definitely is not a positive for us not to be able to find comments with a title and is less fun not being able to know about responses.

by IM4Oakgal on Feb 27, 2008 10:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tag-counting bug?

Just for grins, I clicked on the "all tags" link, and I noticed "allstar (1)" appears four times. I thought maybe that meant there were four occurrences of the tag "allstar," so I clicked on each one (while wondering why the list didn't just have "allstar (4)" once) -- and on each one, I got this page that said "We couldn't find any Stories, but there are other posts tagged with 'allstar': 14 FanPosts"

Huh? 1 x 4 = 14?

I go back to scroll down the tags list (also noticing one occurrence of "as (2)" and 28 occurrences of "as (1)", but not clicking on any of them) until I get to "dld (237)". I click on it, and I'm told "We couldn't find any Stories, but there are other posts tagged with 'dld': 242 FanPosts" (link)

Huh? 237 = 242?

No wonder I didn't do well at math.

I went to another tag, with a small number greater than 2... "free agents (5)". I click it, and I get this page that shows me "Stories 1-1 of 1 tagged with 'free agents'". Okay, I use some deductive brilliance and subtraction to guess that maybe there was one story and four FaNpOsTs to make up the alleged "(5)" occurrences of the "free agents" tag. But there's no link to any "free agents"-tagged fAnPoStS, just the story.

I also find that to be true with other multi-occurrence tags, like "angels (13)" which equals 5 stories... "baseball (8)" = 6 stories... "swisher (20)" = 11 stories... etc... no links to any ~~diaries~~ fanposts that would make up the difference.

And, for some mysterious reason, "anaheim (4)" means "No Stories, but 6 FanPosts," and "suzuki (10)" = 13 Stories.

Anyone worth hurting is worth hurting well.

by Poppy on Feb 28, 2008 11:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

yeah we definitely have a tag count bug

thanks for the detailed report. we'll get working on a fix to that.

I'm one of the guys that built the new SB Nation

by Trei Brundrett on Feb 28, 2008 11:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

that's what happens when you don't wash your hands before tagging

Someone is wrong on the Internet. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 28, 2008 8:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

THAT's what's wrong with America.

Anyone worth hurting is worth hurting well.

by Poppy on Feb 28, 2008 8:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That people aren't washing ...

... or that there are consequences to not washing?

Someone is wrong on the Internet. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 29, 2008 8:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Other random bug...

The AN RSS feed is missing a value in the title element - it causes some definite weirdness in Safari's RSS reader...

by RickeySteals on Feb 28, 2008 6:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Hi. I have a request.

When scanning fanposts (after clicking on All FanPosts) I would love to have the option of NEXT or PREVIOUS to appear on the top of the page as well as the bottom. Thanks!

Orange Pineapple

by Ice Cream on Feb 29, 2008 12:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

A thought ... something that would be helpful ...

in the latest articles list at the top right of the front page, it would be great if it listed the number of new comments (and total, if you want ... I don't really care about them) ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Mar 1, 2008 5:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Bugs galore

This is what happens with I click the

Bold

button (inserts a paragraph tag).
This is what happens with I click the Italic button.
This is what happens with I click the Strikeout button.
This is what happens with I click the ~~blockquote~~ button.
The link button creates a link but tries to close the link with '/h4' instead of '/a'.
The image button closes the image link with '/a'.

"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick, 10/7/07

by doctorK on Mar 2, 2008 9:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs