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Barton to hit sixth?

Gatey_tiny by flipgatey3 on

Stumbled across this on CBS Sportsline in my fantasy league.

Star-divide

News: The Sports Xchange reports Athletics 1B Daric Barton already has a starting job nailed down. He showed excellent strike-zone judgment last September in reaching base in every game he played, and he is making strikes defensively.

Analysis: The A's tenatively have Barton slotted in the sixth spot in the lineup. Barton made 72 plate appearances in 2007. He hit .347 with four homers, eight RBI and 16 runs. He has never been a great power hitter in the minors, but did hit a lot of doubles. He has sleeper written all over him, but his value lies in AL-only and larger mixed leagues at this time. Why sixth? I thought he was a natural candidate for the two-hole.

Here is my updated projection for the lineup (channeling Zonis + some wishful thinking):

Buck lf, Ellis 2b, Chavez 3b, Cust rf, M. Sweeney dh, Barton 1b, Crosby ss, Denorfia cf, Suzuki c

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Maybe to start the season

Then move him up to the second slot later?

Of course, your lineup assumes Sweeney is healthy and hitting the ball well and somehow makes the team and Dan Johnson is traded or something.

I'd rather see something like this:

Buck
Barton
Cust
Sweeney
Chavez
Ellis
Crosby
Denorfia
Suzuki

by mikev on Feb 21, 2008 2:27 PM PST   0 recs

Are you saying that Sweeney will be the DH?

with Cust in the outfield? or is that Ryan Sweeney and you are really optimistic about him ; - )

A's all the way in 08 . . . oh never mind!

by micdog2001 on Feb 21, 2008 2:31 PM PST   0 recs

I also think

that Cust will hit 4th. he doesn't put the ball in play enough to hit third. I think Chavez or M. Sweeny will hit 3rd.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Ellis hits 2nd and Barton 6th to break up the lefties and to take pressure of DB.

A's all the way in 08 . . . oh never mind!

by micdog2001 on Feb 21, 2008 2:35 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Thats if Cust is in the outfield and MS is DH

which might not be the case.

A's all the way in 08 . . . oh never mind!

by micdog2001 on Feb 21, 2008 2:36 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

that is what i want

that's why i put it as that...i like your comment about cust hitting 4th vs. 3rd though

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 21, 2008 4:01 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

It will be:

Buck
Barton
Chavez
Cust
Ellis
Denorfia
Suzuki
R. Sweeney/E. Brown platoon
Crosby

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Feb 21, 2008 2:34 PM PST   0 recs

no way the A's hit Crosby 9th

even though they probably should.

A's all the way in 08 . . . oh never mind!

by micdog2001 on Feb 21, 2008 2:37 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I think Suzuki's their ideal 9th hitter

The leadoff guy (Buck) has power, so they should have someone with a decent OBP in the 9th spot--and that's Suzuki more than Crosby. And Crosby's power will be more useful hitting 7th behind higher OBP guys like Denorfia.

by Danny on Feb 21, 2008 4:49 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I guess tonight I will put up a Rosterbation thread

Hell, since its my habit, I might as well make it a regular thing, a roster analysis going through Spring Training till opening day, since thats when it will actually be useful and not annoying (But even if it was still annoying, god damnit I'll still do it!).

I can see the A's hitting Barton 6th, but I can also see them hitting him higher. I think your lineup, assuming Sweeney makes the MLB club, is a good one.

See, the only real reason to bat Daric Barton 6th and Ellis 2nd, as Barton is by far and away a much better hitter than Ellis and his skillset is ideal for the #2 slot, is because the A's don't want to have 6 left handers in a row, so to speak.

If I had Sweeney on the roster, the lineup I would throw out there;

L 1B Daric Barton
R 2B Mark Ellis
L LF Travis Buck
L RF Jack Cust
R DH Mark Sweeney
L 3B Eric Chavez
R CF Chris Denorfia
R C1 Kurt Suzuki
R SS Bobby Crosby

I have Crosby at Short because while I think Donnie Murphy can match him, Murphy has a lot more flexability with positions and has a great platoon split. So mid game if we need someone to fill in at SS, 2B or 3B, we still have Murphy. If we have a Lefty come up, we have Murphy and his massive split. And so on.

I put Ellis in the #2 hole to break up the string of lefties. Though it could also be done, assuming Sweeney is healthy and to form (unlikely, though I believe) to throw out a lineup of;

L LF Travis Buck
L 1B Daric Barton
R DH Mark Sweeney
L RF Jack Cust
L 3B Eric Chavez
R 2B Mark Ellis
R CF Chris Denorfia
R C1 Kurt Suzuki
R SS Bobby Crosby

The only problem of which is that you now have 4 Righties in a row, with 4 out of the top 5 batters being lefties with just 1 righty in the middle.

by Zonis on Feb 21, 2008 2:43 PM PST   0 recs

good god

i hope we signed mike, not mark...

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 21, 2008 4:01 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Mark is with the Dodgers

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 21, 2008 4:02 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

i know

just commenting on jeremey belvins part 2

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 21, 2008 4:50 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Note to people putting

Mike Sweeney in the lineup.

1. Provided DJ is not traded or injured, Sweeney will not make the team.
2. If he does make the team, he will not be in the starting lineup.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Feb 21, 2008 2:50 PM PST   0 recs

never underestimate the will of teams

to put that veteran grit into the lineup, even as progressive thinking team as the A's.

I don't think DJ will make the team to be honest. Its likely either Sweeney or Sweeney. If Mike Sweeney makes it, he's gunna be the DH for the 10 days he's healthy. If Ryan Sweeney makes the team, he will platoon with Emil Brown.

by Zonis on Feb 21, 2008 3:11 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

My likelihood order for the last spot would be

R. Sweeney
DJ
M. Sweeney

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Feb 21, 2008 3:54 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

no chance

no reason to bring ryan up if we don't have to. his season in AAA last year wasn't that great IIRC. i think mike makes the team...have you seen the headlines lately about dj? i think he's got to be done around these parts. maybe the twins will trade for him this time around like the last two years' rumors.

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 21, 2008 4:02 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I agree - I predict

DJ is moved, Ryan Sweeney starts at AAA waiting for our first OF injury, and Mike Sweeney gets the last roster spot.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 21, 2008 4:04 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

That would leave the team with three outfielders,

one of whom is Emil Brown.

The team would have to give up the DH if someone got hurt during a game. Not to mention play Emil Brown against lefties. I can't see the argument for not starting Sweeney in MLB.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 21, 2008 4:08 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

unless

you're a hannahan in the OF guy i guess...but what would that leave the roster with, we would probably have go to with 11 pitchers huh

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 21, 2008 4:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Hannahan has never, so far as I can tell,

played a professional game in the outfield in his life.

My spider sense tells me that one spring training isn't going to be enough time to make him a passable outfielder.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 21, 2008 5:21 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

That would leave

buck, denorfia, cust, and brown.

Either way, I still see young trade acquisitions (i.e. Eveland, r.sweeney) given a shot in 2008. Sweeney's year last year was mainly disappointing from a power standpoint. But it is worth noting that he had a nagging wrist problem, with the wrists being key in a hitter's power.

I put stock in sweeney simply because the a's are so high on him, and they know more about him than we do. The a's didnt trade swisher for any 4th outfielders.

Ideal outfield; buck, denorfia, sweeney. Cust dh's and brown is the 4th outfielder. Mike sweeney is a non factor (Todd walker-style) and DJ stays, backing up Barton. Infield is ellis, Crosby, chavy, hannahan and murphy. Suzuki and Bowen at backstop. That's 13. That's how I'd do it. But I don't make any decisions.

Formerly known as hward86.

by BWH on Feb 21, 2008 5:29 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

No reason to keep DJ over Sweeney

DJ is left-handed. Sweeney is right-handed.

Maybe I just have a platoon fetish, but I hate it when backups hit from the same side as the guys they're backing up.

The A's didn't trade Swisher for a 4th outfielder. They traded him for two top-20-in-all-of-baseball pitching prospects and a 4th outfielder. There's a difference.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 21, 2008 5:35 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

i agree with this

completely

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 21, 2008 5:42 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

sweeney/dj

Doesnt make a real difference. Either way, they shouldn't get more than 150 pa's. Basically, neither will make a difference. Although I do think there's too much emphasis placed on handedness, especially in bench players. It should be pretty far down on the list of deciding factors. And dj is quite a bit better than mike sweeney (seriously, have you seen sweeney's production since 2005? Ugly.)

Also, Ryan Sweeney, in the a's eyes, isn't a throw in. At all. When you trade a borderline star with 5 cheap years on his contract and you only get 3 guys back, I don't care how good the other 2 prospects are, the third isn't gonna be a throw in backup. I think sweeney's gonna be a lot better, and has a lot more potential, than people think.

Formerly known as hward86.

by BWH on Feb 21, 2008 6:19 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

He has potential

He is unlikely, it seems, to achieve that potential. He's not likely to be a good centerfielder. He's not likely to hit for power. He's kind of medium-likely to hit for average. Add those up and you get a backup outfielder. His 2007 was disappointing from all kinds of standpoints.

I think you underestimate just how hard it is to get teams to part with top pitching prospects these days. I can't even recall the last time a trade went down with two pitching prospects who were as highly rated as DLS and Gio. For a lot of teams, giving up that kind of young pitching is literally a non-starter in trade talks.

Maybe the Swisher trade will work out, maybe it won't-- in either case, it's not a good argument to say "Beane traded for him, therefore he must be good." And if you want to read the tea leaves of the front office's comments, they were much more effusive about Carlos Gonzalez and Aaron Cunningham than they were about Sweeney.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 21, 2008 11:57 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

meh.

I think his "lack of power" is overstated. One bad season when he had an injured wrist. That'll hamper your power big time.

Formerly known as hward86.

by BWH on Feb 22, 2008 12:08 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

also

my whole preference is to give shots to guys like R. Sweeney and eveland. That was the problem with last years team. Watching hiram bocachica and other assorted mediocre vets is awful. I have no problem with watching young mediocrity with a shot of getting better.

I think ryans ready for the MLB. He might suck, but its better than watching Emil or mike sweeney. Give Ryan rf, buck lf, denorfia cf.

Formerly known as hward86.

by BWH on Feb 22, 2008 12:27 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I've been advocating a platoon arrangement

with Brown and Mike Sweeney facing lefties and Ryan Sweeney facing righties. I'm not in favor of starting Emil Brown full-time, unless he's really on a tear and teams are expressing trade interest.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 22, 2008 9:39 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

23 year olds who were top prospects 12 months ago

shouldn't be rotting on the bench in a platoon with a 35 year old who hasn't been good since 2005.

Also, Mike Sweeney hasn't played over 126 games since 2001. And Emil Brown was worse last year than Ryan Sweeney was. If we're willing to poo-poo Ryan Sweeney after one bad year (with an injury, at age 22), why not do the same to Emil Brown (who also had an injury, and was 32)?

To get back to this:

it's not a good argument to say "Beane traded for him, therefore he must be good."

Well, what tells us that he won't be good? One bad injury plagued year? Tepid reviews from Baseball America? Our information is very casual and primitive compared to the information that the A's front office has. Actions speak louder than words, and I'm willing to put more stock in what the A's do than what scouting websites say.

Formerly known as hward86.

by BWH on Feb 22, 2008 11:45 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Are you advocating he play 150 games next year?

He's going to get some days off anyway. It doesn't seem insane to me to arrange those days to coincide with opponents' lefty starters.

A left-handed platoon player will play 120 games or more in a full season.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 22, 2008 1:11 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Brown's a decent 4th OF.

He could finagle his way into 40-50 games (around 200 PA's) next year by spelling Buck/Sweeney on a regular basis. Cust could DH pretty much every day (is there any reason for Cust not to get 600+ PA's without ever putting on a glove this year? Guy's a born DH.)

But yes, I would like to see Ryan Sweeney in the starting MLB lineup as long as he's healthy. The guy's 23 . 23. What's the point of relegating him to a platoon situation before really seeing what he's capable of at the major league level? 120 games for Sweeney and 40 for Brown doesn't sound good to me.

Essentially, I think Buck and Sweeney should be the everyday corner outfielders, with Brown playing the important role (especially on an injury prone team like the A's) of 4th OF.

LF - Buck
CF - DeNorfia
RF - Sweeney
But there's no way all 3 of these guys play full seasons next year, making Brown an important part of the team.

Cust should DH just about full time, and Mike Sweeney shouldn't get a spot on the 25 man roster, unless the A's unload DJ (which I would support.)

Formerly known as hward86.

by BWH on Feb 22, 2008 1:30 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Jeez

You would think that being part of a platoon is like the Mark of Cain, or something.

It doesn't condemn you to mediocrity for your entire career. I'm not saying Yea, And Sweeney Verily Shalt Not Start Against LHP Ever Again...

And it's a good way to introduce young guys to the bigs in a structured environment where the odds of them succeeding are better. If he does well, he'll "outgrow" the platoon arrangement by the end of the year, or next season at latest.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 22, 2008 2:08 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

There's room for both of you to be right,

PaulThomas and BWH. Buck started the 2007 in somewhat of a platoon, in that he was often not started against LHP for "occasional days off" and then played his way into everyday status.

The A's could start Sweeney "most of the time," choosing games against LHP for his days off, and if he is raking he gets to start against LHP, if Emil Brown is raking he might get some of Sweeney's starts against RHP. Or, most likely, some unforseen occurance - usually an injury - changes things before you have to make a clear decision about it.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 22, 2008 2:38 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I think you're just saying that PT is right ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Feb 22, 2008 2:43 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Maybe - but I'm suggesting that

because he's righty and will get most of the ABs in a platoon, Sweeney can be your "basically every day" starter (what BWH wants) just by way of being the lefty hitter in a "platoonish arrangement to start" and playing his way into every day status quickly by performing well.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 22, 2008 2:45 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I mean "because he's lefty"

Grr...Is it "opposite day" yet?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 22, 2008 2:46 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I understand ... and I agree ...

but that's exactly what PT was saying.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Feb 22, 2008 3:02 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

OK, just with the possible distinction

that BWH is saying "Sweeney should start around 150 games," PT is saying look he'll start 120 as a "platoon player" anyway, and I'm suggesting that even if he starts out targeted as a "platoon player" he could play in closer to 150 games if he's good enough, not just 120, because guys who are hitting tend to stay in as long as they're hitting, on teams that don't have enough hitting.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 22, 2008 5:11 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I agree with you

I don't think Ryan Sweeney was a throw in as far as the A's are concerned. Gio/DLS are valuable but, in my opinion, not valuable enough to trade for Swisher and his contract. And I don't think it's close.

by rebus on Feb 22, 2008 7:45 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

In that case,

you think that the A's got swindled on that trade.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but be aware that the vast majority of neutral opinion disagrees with you.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 22, 2008 9:39 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I think you just found grover's new sig
be aware that the vast majority of neutral opinion disagrees with you.

and that it's you, PT, that found it just ices the cake.

by green star oakland on Feb 23, 2008 1:11 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

i would disagree with the

ideal perception here, but i mean it's just opinions.

i would say that sweeney would be a more tradeable asset as well at the deadline. he actually has a history of performing (albeit a history plagued with injuries), while johnson has never got it going at a high level outside of when he plays in the metrodome.

i like ryan sweeney. i just think he starts at AAA because of last year's season, to find out if indeed it was pain-influenced.

overall, good post. i liked it.

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 21, 2008 5:42 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

What if Ryan Sweeney's 2007

was attitude-influenced?

He was already griping about being sent down last year. How's he going to handle being demoted again in favor of a guy who just got non-tendered?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 21, 2008 5:56 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

also an issue

i mean, it's not like he's bj upton or delmon young. they had legit complaints. sweeney hit .270 in AAA IIRC. but it's definitely a factor.

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 21, 2008 6:26 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

waaay too much room for bs here.

I have reserves about judging a guys character based on press clippings and third hands accounts. Seems unfair, borderline juvenile.

Formerly known as hward86.

by BWH on Feb 21, 2008 6:40 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

God I had some bad grammar going in this thread.

Blame the Blackberry.

Formerly known as hward86.

by BWH on Feb 21, 2008 10:04 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Problem with that is

you're left with a total of 4 OFers, including Cust. R. Sweeney will make the team for versatility.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Feb 21, 2008 4:10 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Lineup order doesn't matter anyway

but to the extent that it does, I don't understand why you would hit Barton 6th. 6th in an AL lineup is where you put your power-heavy hackers. (Like Soriano. Except that he throws hissy fits when he isn't inexplicably put in the leadoff spot.) Then again, I seriously doubt that this is as set in stone as the OP (and the link) make it out to be, so whatever.

Eh. Well, anyway, if this team wants to be even semi-competitive, it needs radically diffferent lineups against LHP and RHP. The only possible way to compete is to leverage platoon splits to turn Brown, the Sweeneys, Murphy and Chavez into acceptably good hitters.

RHP:

Buck
Denorfia
Cust
Chavez
Ellis
Barton (apparently...)
Crosby
Suzuki
Ryan Sweeney

LHP

Buck
Denorfia
Ellis
Mike Sweeney
Brown
Barton/Cust
Murphy
Crosby
Suzuki

I'm aware that this sends Hannahan to AAA, but a. someone will probably get hurt anyway, and b. he can learn the outfield there.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 21, 2008 3:30 PM PST   0 recs

No way Hannahan doesn't make the team

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Feb 21, 2008 3:53 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Care to provide some evidence for that claim?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 21, 2008 3:58 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Logic

1. Hard to see them going with just one backup IF with Chavez and Crosby coming off injuries.
2. Sweeney is old, on the decline, frequently, and there's no position open for him. Why would they contort the roster to put him on.
3. He's signed to a minor league deal. They will will have to knock someone off the 40-man if he makes the team.
4. Sweeney doesn't figure to outhit Hannahan by much if at all anyway.
5. Public comments (don't feel like searching) all suggest that Hannahan's spot is secure.
6. Hannahan has a future as a useful player, whereas Sweeney does not.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Feb 21, 2008 4:07 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

OK

1. I don't think it would kill them to stick Barton at third for a game. And obviously Hannahan could come back up if someone goes on (or starts on) the DL.

2/4. He's right-handed. Hannahan is left-handed. Their at-bats shouldn't be overlapping anyway.

3. I'm pretty sure there are already 26 players who can't be optioned out on the 40-man roster at this point. And even if there aren't, I imagine one of Blevins or Devine will make the team.

5. The only thing I remember is Beane saying that he wasn't going to be sent down last year if he hit a slump, which was true (because the team had shit-all else to play at 3B). And some generally complementary things. Nothing specific about keeping him on the active roster.

6. Not sure why this is an argument in favor of keeping him on the MLB roster.

If anything, his future value would indicate that converting him into a utility player this season would be a highly useful thing to do.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 21, 2008 4:23 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

i agree

with the last part. hannahan is that much more valuable if he can play left or right. or second...or short...

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 21, 2008 4:53 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

ComPLImentary things

Not things which would make a 180 degree angle when added to Jack Hannahan.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 21, 2008 5:20 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

spare me your geometry

but that was a good catch

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 21, 2008 5:43 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Not really. Complementary angles add up

to 90 degrees. Supplementary angles add up to 180 degrees. Oh, and I'd rather have Hannahan in the majors than Ryan Sweeney. I'm not convinced Ryan can hit, and I'd like to see him actually hit at AAA before being promoted.

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 22, 2008 10:52 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Sweeney has hit in AAA for 2 years now.

.296/.350/.452 in 2006 as a 21 year old in AAA
.270/.348/.398 in 2007 as a 22 year old, with a wrist injury apparently.

I don't really see the point in a third year of AAA for him.

by mikev on Feb 22, 2008 10:59 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I'm not as impressed by a .398 SLG in AAA as

you apparently are. Maybe we need to see how well the injury has healed.

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 22, 2008 11:37 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Hence the "apparently with a wrist injury"

Such an injury would have an effect on his power (.050 drop in SLG) but not so much on his OBP, which essentially was unchanged.

by mikev on Feb 22, 2008 2:02 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Hence we need to see how well it's healed

and whether he can hit with a healthy wrist, before giving him a starting job in the majors.

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 22, 2008 3:15 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Hence giving him the job this year

While we're in rebuild mode.

Then again, maybe I'm just in the camp that thinks a guy that's put up 2 relatively solid years in AAA while being injured during one of them doesn't have much to prove, especially when his competition is a guy that's never played outfield.

(Also, please start your next reply with "hence" :D)

by mikev on Feb 25, 2008 9:49 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

hens?

in oakland?

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Feb 25, 2008 11:26 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Gah

Even my corrections aren't correct...

Look, we know Hannahan can hit pretty good, we know he isn't going to hit great-- he's a known quantity. Better to find out about your UNknown quantities in a rebuilding year.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 22, 2008 11:02 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

exactly

The idea that Chavez should be hitting in the top half of the lineup against lefties is crazy. Personally, I'm not sure he should even be playing against lefties. First, sitting him helps him rest his dozen or so inevitable injuries. Second, it gets his dreadful bat out of the lineup. But if he does need to play for defensive reasons, he should be hitting maybe 7th or 8th, in my opinion.

by rageon on Feb 22, 2008 8:30 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

His defense has declined severely

as a result of all the injuries. It's possible that he will recover this season, but it seems unlikely that he will be at full strength for the first half of the season.

Offensively, lefties have tied Chavez in knots since time immemorial (of course the necessary flipside to that, which the haters never want to acknowledge, is that he's actually been really, really good against righties); I don't see any reason to expect that to change.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 22, 2008 9:43 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Offensively, lefties have tied Chavez in knots since time immemorial

First, your hyperbole is wrong. Second, even in a general sense there is evidence that Chavez has figured out lefties.

2004: OBP/SLG/AVG
Righties - .388/.514/.257
Lefties - .412/.481/.306

2005: OBP/SLG/AVG
Right - 329/.489/.271
Left - .328/.421/.264

2004 may have been a fluke or maybe he figured something out. 2005 was pretty even also, giving us a significant sample size. Since, then I am not sure he has been healthy enough for us to tell whether he still has a problem with lefties or he has them figured out.

by Donner on Feb 22, 2008 10:31 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

You're on the horns of a dilemma here

Either his injuries affect him more against lefties than against righties (for whatever reason), or they don't.

If they do, well, he's likely to still be feeling the effects of the injuries for some time. He's not likely to play this season at 100%. And thus he's likely to struggle against lefties.

If they don't, there's no justification for throwing out the past two years' numbers.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 22, 2008 11:07 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Justification...

My justification is he pretty much sucked across the board the last two years. Below a certain level of suckitude I don't like to read anything into the numbers. Although it looks like I misremembered 2006, I thought he was quite a bit worse overall between right and left. And, 2007, he is equally bad. So, for the last 4 years I have 3 years that say Chavez can handle lefties, and 1 that reverts back to his pre-2004 ways. So, I think my point still stands that it is not clear that Chavez will have problems with left handed pitching going forward and therefore we should reserve judgment on that point until there is a significant sample size going into the season. I think his eye has improved against left handed pitching compared to his earlier years if you look at OBP relative to AVG between pre-2004 and 2006/2007, but it minor.

2006: OBP/SLG/AVG
Right: .364/ .469/.257
Left: 311/.339/.197

2007: OBP/SLG/AVG
Right: .314/.465/.244
Left: .292/.411/.234

by Donner on Feb 25, 2008 9:27 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

As a high OBP, low power guy,

I see Barton high in the order. As a good RBI guy, I see Buck in the middle (only because the A's don't have several better options). But I still can't figure out a lineup because the A's really have no lead-off hitter and every lineup I try has 4 lefties in a row. For whatever that's worth.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 21, 2008 4:02 PM PST   0 recs

How the heck is Buck not a leadoff hitter?

He projects to hit close to .300 with a high 300s OBP.

That's a leadoff hitter. He's even kind of fast, not that that should actually have any bearing on whether someone should hit leadoff or not.

Denorfia also projects as a leadoff hitter (or a "second leadoff" guy in the nine-hole).

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 21, 2008 4:07 PM PST to parent up   0 recs