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Future Athletic Roundup 2.1: A look at the Stockton Rotation

Future Athletic Roundup #2.12008 Stockton Rotation Edition.

    Since we hear so much about Stockton's rotation being so good this year, I wanted to write up a projected line-up.  Also, since it’s a new season with lots of new players and a new site, so I took the opportunity to choose a new name (I got bored with the last one).  Hopefully, unlike last year, I’ll do more than 6 of these this year, but that really depends on my schedule. 

Star-divide

    With all the hype over Stockton’s rotation this year I wanted to make a list and find out more about the pitchers A’s fans might see in the rotation; when I was done the length of the list surprised me.  My take on the situation is that the A’s system was always middle to bottom heavy to begin with.  When Beane traded for a glut of mid-level pitchers in the Swisher, Haren, and Scutaro trades, he created a bubble in the system at the A+ level.  It’s causing pitchers in A- Kane County or 2007 draftees that might have been a shoe in for an A+ rotation spot in any other year, to repeat their previous level.  It’s the only way to explain a pitcher like James Heuser, who had a very good year at Kane County last year but could very well end up repeating the entire year there this year.  I also expect the A’s will go with a 6 man rotation in Stockton to try to fit in all the talented pitchers who need starting time to develop.  These aren’t ranked by pitching ability, but rather the speed at which I feel the pitcher will graduate from Stockton.  Enjoy the list and tell me your opinions when you are done.

Future Athletic Power Rankings:  Projected Stockton 2008 Rotation

  1. Brett Anderson  (SP/LHP) – The 20 year old’s amazing control (he only walked 21 batters in over 120 innings last year) will make him the most advanced pitcher on the Stockton staff and, given the crowded Stockton staff, could start in AA if he has a good spring training.  The left hander ended last year playing for the Diamondback’s A+ affiliate, throws in the low 90’s, has an average fast ball, a changeup, a large breaking curve; and a hard thrown slurve .
  2. Fautino de los Santos (SP/RHP) –  De los Santos is the second pitcher that, although slated to start in A+ Stockton, could be quickly pushed to AA Midland given a good spring training.  He throws in the mid-90’s (he can reach 97 if he needs to) , has a plus power slerve-ball, and a developing change-up.  Both his fastball and power slerve can be considered out pitches giving de los Santos the highest upside of any pitcher in the system since Rich Harden.
  3. Trevor Cahill (SP/RHP) – After an excellent 2007 season with the A’s that saw him win Organizational Pitcher of the year; Cahill is all but guaranteed to start in A+ Stockton.  Cahill is a lot like Brett Anderson, but--even without Anderson’s control--he strikes out more people and gets more ground balls.  He has a changeup, slider, and a knuckle curve ball to complement his fastball, and he throws in the low to mid 90’s; he also walked 40 people in 105 innings last year.  This will be his first time in A+ Stockton and he will likely stay longer then Anderson or de los Santos do, to give him time to work on his command and off-speed pitches.
  4. Vince Mazzaro (SP/RHP) – Mazzaro, one of the “little three” high school aces drafted in 2005, is likely to start the year repeating A+ Stockton.  He pitches with an above average fastball with sink, a power knuckle-curve ball, and an inconsistent but developing change-up.  If Mazzaro wants to get the bump up to AA, the A’s will be looking for him to be more consistent this year.  Last year, although some up his strike-outs were up to 155 (from 81 in 2006), his walks were also up to 71 BB’s in 153 innings (from 42 BB/in 119 in 2006).
  5. Arnold Leon (SP/RHP) – The only thing you need to know about Leon (who signed this winter with the A’s out of the Mexican summer league) is that the A’s want him to start his major league career in Stockton—as a 19 year old.  The baby of the young staff has a fastball in the low 90s, has two plus off-speed pitches, and had a 1.94era and .217 average against while pitching in the Mexican summer league last year.  Already he’s impressed A’s manager Bob Geren, who listed his name along with players like Gio Gonzolez (the minor league 2007 strikeout leader). Leon will be an interesting player to watch this year.
  6. Henry Rodriguez  (SP/RHP) –  You know you are going to have a deep rotation when the number six guy on your list throws 100mph.  He had the best arm in the A’s system until the Swisher trade brought in DLS.  He pitches with a high 90’s two and four seam fastball, a solid change up, and a developing slider.  He has the upside of a staff ace, but he’ll have to work on his command and off-speed offerings to get there.  He tends to overthrow his pitches and last year it cost him when he walked 58 people in 99 innings of work.
  7. Jared Lansford (SP/RHP) – Two years ago Jared Lansford was throwing perfect games and considered one of the best pitching prospects in the A’s system.  Last year he was given the A+ Stockton opening day start, but ended up missing most of the 2007 season because of detaching a muscle from a bone in his chest.  This year he’s a borderline candidate to make the Stockton rotation.  He pitches with a low 90’s sinking fastball, a knuckle curve, a slider, and a developing change-up.  If he wants to keep moving through the system and make up for lost time he’s going to have to improve his strike-out totals.  (Although in all fairness, part of his K problem is rumored to have stemmed from not being able to use his curve or slider in Kane County/2006)  Lansford being the 7th man in this 6 man rotation is the main thing leaving me to believe that Anderson or DLS will start the year in AA Midland.
  8. Graham Godfrey (SP/RHP) – Godfrey, who came over in the Scutaro trade, is in a bit of a predicament.  He’s too good for A- Kane County, not good enough to AA Midland, and has seven guys ahead of him for a spot in the A+ Stockton rotation.  My prediction is that he’ll start in the Stockton bullpen and move to the rotation as a spot opens up.  He throws in the low 90’s and has a developing change-up and slider.
  9. Jason Fernandez (SP/RHP)  – Fernandez came out of nowhere last year to become one of the A’s more interesting pitching prospects.  He pitched well in A- Kane County, and depending how badly the A’s want him to be a starter or reliever, he could ether start the year as the ace of the Kane County staff, or start in the Stockton bullpen and battle for a rotation spot as it opens up.  Fernandez throws at a Joe Blanton like 88 to 91mph and has a good curveball and slider.
  10. Travis Banwart (SP/RHP) – This 2007 draftee  put up a sub 3 era  after being aggressively promoted to A-Kane County out of college.  He has a low 90’s fastball, an above average change-up, a slow curveball, and a developing slider.  He’ll likely start the year in A- Kane County, but at 22 years old is a strong candidate for a mid-year call up to Stockton if he continues to pitch well.
  11. Ryan Webb (SP/RHP) – Webb should start in A+ Stockton again given his performance last year, but Stockton’s glut of pitchers could very well force Webb onto the AA Midland staff.  Webb, a four year veteran of the A’s system, is an intelligent pitcher with a low 90’s fastball, a slider, and a curve ball.  He almost had a break-out year last year, but after giving up 10 homeruns in four games after being promoted to AA, he floundered after the demotion back to A+ that followed. 
  12. James Heuser  (SP/LHP) – Heuser is a victim of his own success.  He did well as the solid but unspectacular innings eater of the A- Kane County staff last year (you could almost say the Joe Blanton of the staff), so well in fact that the A’s could want to keep him as a starter and, in my opinion, won’t consider him for Stockton’s bullpen.  Because he doesn’t yet have the ability/experience of the eleven people ahead of him on this list he’ll likely start in Kane County again.  Any other year and he’d go straight to Stockton, but because of the system rebuilding he’s a mid-year call-up at best.

Other Candidates:  Scott Deal (A control pitcher with a slider, developing change-up), Brandon Dewing, Jose Guzman, Luis Ramirez (Had a good winter league).

Candidates who were cut from the minors: Michael Rodgers, Trent Peterson



Poll
Which pitcher are you going to be most excited to see pitch in Stockton this year?
Brett Anderson
19 votes
Fautino de los Santos
151 votes
Trevor Cahill
29 votes
Vince Mazzaro
3 votes
Arnold Leon
32 votes
Henry Rodriguez
21 votes
Jared Lansford
7 votes

262 votes | Poll has closed

6 recs  |  Comment 23 comments

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Godfrey & Anderson to AA

I think part of the theoretical logjam in the rotation will be alleviated right off the bat, since I think both Godfrey and Anderson will start the year in Midland.

Godfrey could certainly use some time in Stockton, but as a collegiate pitcher that will be 24 before the year ends, he should be pushed to Midland to see if he can be expected to contribute at the higher levels, while not taking any innings away from higher upside arms in Stockton.

Sure, Anderson is super young, has only one full season of pro-ball under his belt and struggled a bit at High-A last season, but he still managed to post a near 4-1 K-BB ratio and a 9+ K/9 ratio while "struggling". He gave up a few more homeruns than he did in Low-A, but who doesn't give up more homeruns than usual in the California League?

Brett's very polished for his age, and I think it makes sense to challenge him at Double-A.

by Taj Adib on Feb 16, 2008 7:18 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Godfrey

I agree with you about Anderson, he's definitely the most likely to start the year at Midland, but I'm not so sure about Godfrey. He's still got a lot to learn with his developing change-up and slider. You do make a good point about him being 24 though.

I tend to think that Anderson, DLS and Webb would be the top three candidates to start in AA to free up the rotation space, but we'll see.

by Threepwood XX on Feb 16, 2008 7:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Most def

No doubt that Godfrey still has a bit to learn, but his pure stuff is nothing compared to that of the other guy's on this list, so I'm thinking that the front office might push him to see if he can at least cut-it as a middle reliever in the higher levels.

I think De Los Santos will stay in Stockton for most of the season. He's clearly the jewel of the minor league system at this point, and I think the organization will want him to really master a changeup before moving him up so that he can be considered a true three-pitch starter, rather than just a live-arm with a nice slider.

Don't know much about Webb, but he could definitely be pushed to AA as well, since Midland will need some bodies to throw some innings too, right?

by Taj Adib on Feb 16, 2008 7:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

middle reliever

Good points. My only comment to that is if the A's see Godfrey as a middle reliever then they might as well throw him in Stockton's pen until he perfects another pitch.

I always guessed the reason the A's traded for him was because they figured that although a guy who can only throw a low 90's fastball is will only ever be a AAAA player, if they luck out and manage to teach him another out pitch suddenly you have a decent reliever or mid/late rotation starter. I guess I'm just operating on the assumption that the A's will want to put him at a level where he can learn that pitch.

by Threepwood XX on Feb 16, 2008 8:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You can learn A pitch

at any level. (James Simmons will be learning a breaking ball at AAA in his second pro season.)

The question is learning TO pitch, and as an old-ish guy Godfrey needs to get his s*** together modestly quickly in that department. So he may well be pushed to AA.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 16, 2008 10:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Part of this will depend

on where Andrew Bailey ends up after spring. I understand that he could win a permanent spot in Sacramento after dominating in his cup of coffee there last fall if he does well enough in the spring.

If he does, Midland is definitely going to need some inning-eaters. I expect a couple of the minor league Rule 5 guys (like Angel Garcia, who I'm semi-surprised didn't end up playing basketball for Louisville) will end up there, but all three of the guys the A's picked up are extremely raw power pitchers, so they may want some steadying influences there to counterbalance that.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 16, 2008 10:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Intrigued

I'm most intrigued by Cahill and Leon. That's not to say that I'm not excited about the other guys mentioned in that list, especially Anderson and DLS, but there are specific reasons for me to be ecstatic about the first two. I'm a big supporter of Cahill because a). he was drafted by the A's so there's that sentimentality and b). he was drafted right out of Cahill and hasn't hit any real snags yet. Me likey Leon because of the fact that he's a 19 year-old guy we plucked out of nowhere and is now drawing rave reviews in every article mentioning him.

It's a great feeling to think about our minor league pitchers and imagine the stacked rotation we could be sporting in a couple years time.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Feb 16, 2008 8:04 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the great writeup

I tend to agree that age will be a big determinant - DLS is young and raw, so I suspect he'll be moved slowly so as to be polished in 2010-11 rather than be rushed in 2009-10. Same with Leon and probably Cahill. I'd say the same about Anderson except he appears more polished, which makes him a likelier candidate to come up to the big leagues at a younger age.

In contrast, with a guy like Godfrey you may as well "fish or cut bait" and see if he can handle AA competition - if not he's probably not a prospect, just filler, but if so great.

So I figure if they make the big leagues, it's Gio for 2009, Anderson 2010, DLS, Cahill, and Leon 2011.

Finally, I wonder if Henry Rodriguez' future is in the bullpen - just observing that some of the "too many starters" problems (nice problems to have) could also end up solved this way.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 16, 2008 8:16 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Rodriguez

Good points about the age factor.

As for Rodriguez I think we should be able to guess where he will go by the end of the season. If his off speed pitches or control don't improve we might start hearing notions of him being shipped to the pen.

But if he does manage to perfect another off-speed pitch or his control then who are we to get in the way of a 100mph flamethrower getting a spot in the rotation? The A's can always trade a lesser pitcher for whatever hole then need to fill at the time if it comes down to it.

You're right, it is a nice problem to have. I look forward to being able to be the team trading for a star player instead of the team trading away that star player.

by Threepwood XX on Feb 16, 2008 8:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My thinking is that

most guys who can throw high 90s either

1. can't sustain it for 100 pitches
2. can't also command offspeed pitches that well

or both.

That being said, I've never seen the guy pitch, and no, I wouldn't stand in the way of a starter who could throw 99MPH for 99 pitches, with an offspeed pitch he could locate!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 16, 2008 10:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I did get to see Henry

Rodriguez in Kane County last summer. But I can't really address either of your points. He was pitching well that game but basically just blew high fastballs past everyone. That's fun to watch, but it doesn't tell me much about the location of his breaking pitches.

And he didn't make it deep in the game because he tried to barehand a hard chopper in the fifth inning. After that play, he clearly had soreness in his pitching hand and walked three straight batters (maybe some of them were HBP) before leaving the game.

by colin on Feb 18, 2008 8:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds like a Harden in the making -

High 90s fastball, foolish enough to try to barehand a comebacker.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 18, 2008 10:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

not just a fluke

yeah, I was sitting in the stands thinking “Wow, the A's organization really starts early at teaching their pitchers how to hurt themselves.”

by colin on Feb 18, 2008 12:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yup - from the time the

alarm clocks rings on the very first day!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 18, 2008 12:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Leon

was drawing rave reviews for his command from the A's scouts, so he may move pretty quickly. I think in his case the limiting factor is more one of stamina (it's going to take 3-4 seasons to stretch him out into a big-league starter innings-wise) than polish. If they decide he's better off in relief, he could be younger than Street was when he makes his debut.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 16, 2008 10:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Anderson

I heard or read somewhere that he has added some MPH to his fastball is this true or confirmed? Before he was sittling at 89-91mph but I know I read in some post somewhere that hes gotten it up to 93-95mph consistently.

I really want to see what Leon and Cahill can do. I really can't wait for the season to start so I can start tracking our minor leaguers. In fact if we are in full rebuild mode I hope the A's tank the regular season to secure the #1 pick and pick up something good there. If we are going to lose doesn't matter if your 2nd place or last place you've still missed the playoffs(barring WC of course). Might as well give yourself the best oppertunity to improve.

by AthleticsReign on Feb 17, 2008 2:34 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

no point

we won't pay over slot anyway...no reason to have the 1st pick

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Feb 17, 2008 4:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Are you sure?

How sure can we be that the A's wont pay over slot this year?

I mean, isn't giving six figures to Arnold Leon akin to paying over slot?

Isn't signing Robin Rosario to a 350,000 signing bonus akin to paying over slot?

With the A's newfound appreciation of spending money on talent development I could see the A's going over slot for a couple players. It will be very interesting to see what the A's do with this years draft.

Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball, and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.

by Threepwood XX on Feb 17, 2008 4:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The frigging D-Rays

(and yes, i can call them that because that's what they were at the time) gave an over-slot bonus to David Price.

First overall picks are sui generis. Normal rules just don't apply.

Also, Beane has at least dropped some hints about going over-slot in this year's draft, although it's open to interpretation.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 17, 2008 10:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Forgetting someone

speaking of guys throwing 100MPH, what about Craig Italiano.

by Zonis on Feb 17, 2008 5:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of guys throwing 100MPH,

how about Jamie Moyer's last two pitches?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 17, 2008 6:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Italiano

Since he hasn't pitched in almost a year, I think it would be a safe assumption that he will start the year in Kane County. Since he's now 21 I do think we could see the A's aggressively move him to Stockton if he starts to dominate the Midwest League. I've also her rumors that since the A's fixed his jerky throwing motion he no longer hits 100mph, but is more of a mid 90's guy.

Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball, and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.

by Threepwood XX on Feb 17, 2008 9:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice information and discussion

Enjoy hearing about our new and up and coming minor league players. Let spring training begin for the minor leaguers and may the cream tend to rise to the top.

I am particularly looking forward to seeing what Leon brings to the table as he is highly rated and at the same time there is not that much out there yet about him. GO A'S.

Charlie Brown GO A'S WIN

by Charlie Brown on Feb 17, 2008 7:05 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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