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Staturday: what the heck is a replacement player?

In between cheap jokes and a poor frame (alien invasions - how trite!), last time I occupied this space we discussed the real way to measure offense: by using runs. You can read about that here. The basic gist is that the only stats that make sense in baseball are the ones that measure contribution in runs. Runs are what help you win in baseball.


But how do you compare players to each other? Today I'm going to talk about baselines - to what standard should we hold players? And why?

Everything in life has a baseline. Think about your salary. Imagine that you make $40,000 per year, working at a comfortable but mind-numbing office job in which you spend the majority of your time posting on AN. This might be hard for some of you to imagine, but stick with me here.

There are a few ways you can measure your salary: in absolute terms (you make $40,000 every year), in average terms (you make $10,000 less than the average California salary), or in poverty terms (you make $30,000 more than the poverty threshold). Offensive production in baseball can be thought of in much the same way.

Before we go any further, remember from last time the only way to measure offense is in terms of runs contributed to a team offense. Also, we're going to adjust the numbers so that they are in terms of runs contributed to a team's offense over 690 plate appearances. (Why 690? There were 2268 games played in the AL last year, and in those games there were approximately 86,609 plate appearances. That means that a typical team got 86609/2268 = 38.2 plate appearances per game. Since there are nine guys in the lineup, a typical batter got 38.2/9 = 4.25 plate appearances per game, or around 690 plate appearances for 162 games.)

Let's pick a random full-timer from last year's team, say Nick Swisher. According to my last Staturday post, Swish created 97 runs in 660 plate appearances, or about 103 runs per 690 PA. Now we want to compare him to other players. How would we do that? Let's go through the three ways I described above:

1. In absolute terms
That's easy; Nick Swisher contributed 103 runs to our offense. The baseline here is zero. This is the true number of runs that Swisher contributed to our offense. But that doesn't really help us compare him to other players, since we don't know what the average player did.

2. Compared to average
This is useful, because average has a singular definition in baseball: an average team would win half of its games and lose half of its games. Last year, the average number of runs scored in an AL game was 4.9. So, it stands to reason that an average player would have created 4.9 runs in a game. From the arithmetic above, we know that there were on average 38.2 plate appearances in a game. So, the average player would have created 4.9/38.2 = 0.13 runs per plate appearance, or 88.5 runs per 690 plate appearances.  UPDATE: Bad wording, see monkeyball edit.


In other words, Nick Swisher created almost 14.5 runs more with his bat than an average player did. We all know that Nick Swisher is a very good hitter, probably one of the top 30 in the AL. Now we know that had Swish been replaced with an average hitter, the A's would have scored 14.5 fewer runs last year.

3. Compared to poverty line
When I say poverty, I mean baseball poverty. What if you made a team out of the worst players in the majors? You would likely have a very bad team. If you replaced all the guys on your team with junk that you can find lying around AAA, or last guys off the bench like Willie Bloomquist, you would probably win only 50 games. That is why this level of player is called "replacement level." The "R" in "VORP" and "WARP," for those of you who have ever wondered, stands for replacement level.

Why is replacement level important? Well, how much would you pay a team composed of replacement level talent? The minimum salary as allowed by the league. So, you can think of team-building this way: I pay the absolute minimum salary for my first 50 wins, and I have to spend at least that much money in order to field a full team. For any wins that I get beyond the first 50, I have to pony up some cash.

Replacement level is an economic concept, and it helps us think about how teams are built. The last guy on your bench, making the major league minimum, should be at least a replacement level player. Otherwise you are paying him too much money!

How do we compute what replacement level is? There's a nifty equation called the Pythagorean Equation of Baseball, which states that a team's winning percentage is:

WinPct = RS^2/(RS^2+RA^2)

WinPct is the fraction of games a team wins, RS is the average number of runs scored by the offense, and RA is the average number of runs allowed by the pitching/defense. If you're not sure what "^" means, it simply means "raise to the power of." That is, RS^2 means RS to the power of 2, or RS multiplied by itself.

(Aside: we can argue until we're blue in the face about the validity of this equation, but a) this is neither the time nor the place and b) you'd be wrong anyway and c) you'd cling to your prejudices so strongly that I could never convince you that you're wrong. If I sound arrogant about the Pythagorean Equation, it's because I've wasted more than enough time explaining to people why it's right when they think it's wrong.)

So what is the winning percentage of a replacement level team? It's simply 50/162 = .308. Let's call that .310 for simplicity. A team of average pitching and defense gives up 4.9 runs in a game (RA = 4.90). Now that we know WinPct = .310 and RA = 4.90, we can compute the number of runs a team must score in a game (RS) in order to be considered a "replacement level offense." A little arithmetic shows us that the answer is 3.3 runs. That is a very, very bad offense. Chicago, with the worst offense in the league last year managed to score 4.3 runs per game, so the ability to produce a team that has replacement level offense is very difficult - although our sister team across the bay is apparently trying to do just this.

As before, we compute the number of runs a replacement level hitter creates per plate appearance by dividing the number of runs by the average number of plate appearances in a game: 3.3/38.2 = 0.086. Or, per 690 plate appearances, 59 runs.

Thus, we can say that Nick Swisher created 103-59 = 44 runs over what a replacement level hitter would have created. That is, if we had replaced Nick Swisher with AAAA junk, we would have scored 44 fewer runs.

UPDATE: I think I'm wrong here.  A team full of replacement level players would not have only replacement level run scoring, they would have replacement level run prevention (pitching and defense).  So it's not really fair to say that a replacement level team would have average pitching and then compute the replacement level for hitters based off of that.  Other, smarter researchers have looked into this, so I am willing to cop to this mistake.  It turns out that offensive replacement level is something like .395, NOT .310. 

Why is that?  Well, a replacement TEAM will have a winning percentage of .310.  But both their hitters and pitchers will be of replacement quality.  Well, imagine that a team has average pitching but replacement hitting, and we set the replacement HITTING level at .395.  Then, using the equation above with WinPct = .395 and RA = 4.9, we solve for RS and find that RS = 3.96 for replacement hitting. 

Now repeat for a team of average hitters but replacement pitchers/defenders, and you'll find that RA = 6.06 for pitchers/defenders.

So a TEAM of replacement run scoring and replacement run prevention woul have RS = 3.96 and RA = 6.06, which implies a winning percentage of .300 (close enough to .310 for my tastes).

Using the mathematics below, we find that the replacement hitter is good for 3.96/38.2*690 = 71.5 runs, instead of the 59 I stated above.  Redoing the numbers below will be left as an exercise to the reader.


Now, it's possible for reasonable people to disagree on what constitutes replacement level. I think you could make a good argument for any winning percentage between .275 and .350, and you will see various definitions in various places. My replacement level of .310 is not to be taken as gospel by any means.

Baseball Prospectus is famous for introducing two stats that use a replacement level baseline: VORP and WARP. VORP uses a pretty good definition of replacement level, but WARP does not. In fact, it is a bad idea to use WARP for...well, anything. Maybe pre-WWII historical studies, but that's it. WARP considers replacement level to be along the lines of the 1899 Cleveland Spiders, who won only 20 games in a 154 game season. Such a bad team will probably never exist again in the majors.

Another baseline

That's not the end of the story. Obviously, some positions are more difficult to field than others, and some hitters are not capable of playing the harder positions. A guy like Jack Cust is a great hitter, but Cust can't play shortstop. Likewise, Marco Scutaro isn't a very good hitter, but we all know intuitively that he's not that bad when you consider the fact that he's a middle infielder.

That's why, after applying the replacement-level or average baseline adjustment, we need to adjust for position. As Tom Tango explains, "These are needed so that an average fielding 1B is not valued the same as an average fielding SS." Shortstop is the more important position, and an average fielder there is much more valuable than an average fielder at 1B. Think about it this way: an average fielding shortstop would be an above-average fielder at first base, so the pool from which we can choose a firstbaseman is that much bigger.

I won't go into too much detail here, but suffice to say that the above-linked post gives a pretty good approximation as to how we adjust the baseline for various positions.

Pos   Adjustment

C        +10 runs

SS      +5

CF      +5

2B       +0

3B       +0

LF        -5

RF       -5

1B       -10

DH      -15

Note that this has nothing to do with how well a player plays this position; it is only a bonus (or demerit) given to players who can field a particular position. After all, a good shortstop is hard to find!  Notice that the hardest defensive positions get the biggest bonuses and the easiest defensive positions get the biggest penalties.

 Finally, let's check out some 2008 A's, as projected by the THT Season Preview. These projections appear courtesy of The Hardball Times.

Player                        Runs/690 PA              PRAR/690 PA
Spartacust               111                                    37
Chavvy                       97                                   38
BART                         96                                    27
Dad, Jr.                      96                                   27
MaEl                          89                                     30
Emil Brown               86                                   22
Hannahan               85                                     26
T-BUCK!                   85                                    21
ChoCoBoCro          81                                    27
Rob Bowen              81                                   32
Donnie Murphy         75                                   21
Ryan Sweeney        68                                    14
Zooks                       67                                     18
PRAR = position-adjusted runs above replacement = runs - replacement level + position bonus

Example: Jack Cust: 111 - 59 + (-15) = 37

 

You can tweak these numbers until your heart's content by including things like park effects, which I will not go into here. This framework gets you most of the way to a statistic like VORP. That doesn't mean that you should be computing all of these numbers for yourself, but if you've ever wondered where all these "new-fangled stats" come from...well, here you go.

I do want to remind you that what we're assuming that these players will garner 690 plate appearances, or basically a full season. So Chavvy is projected to be 38 runs above replacement only if he plays all year. Obviously, that number will be less should his shoulder, elbow, ass, and hamstring are all injured in a terrible bowling accident.

 

*            *            *


If you enjoyed this post and the type of numbers presented here, come by The Hardball Times website. We publish original research on baseball statistics using the same kind of analytical framework you see here, such as Win Shares Above Bench. We also publish articles on baseball history, economics, and current events.

If you enjoy what you see there, please consider purchasing our THT Preseason Preview. It has great preseason essays for all 30 teams, as well as projections for tons and tons of players. Our book sales help us to cover the cost of purchasing and presenting the data on our website, as well pay a nominal amount of money to our dedicated writers, editors, and webmasters. If you do wish to purchase our book, consider purchasing it directly from ACTA Sports. It is more expensive than Amazon, but a greater fraction of the proceeds go to the authors and editors. If you're a hardcore free-marketeer and want to purchase our book through Amazon, please consider donating a portion of the cost difference to THT by visiting our homepage and finding the "Make a Donation" button the bottom of our right sidebar.

 

[Note by salb918, 02/14/08 4:16 PM EST ] I'm seeing now that the fine bloggers at USS Mariner have written a similar post using run values instead of win values.  Go on over and check their primer out as well.

[Note by salb918, 02/14/08 4:22 PM EST ] If you don't like the tables, take it up with Blez and clockwerks.  I've spent too long trying to figure it out and having AN 3.0 delete my changes to waste any more time on it.

[Note by salb918, 02/16/08 9:38 AM EST ] One more thing about our preseason book.  Each chapter is written by a hardcore fan of that team - if we couldn't find one on the THT staff, we went out to the blogosphere, and in some cases, the SB Nation blogosphere.  That means Jeff Sullivan of Lookout Landing wrote the Mariners chapter and Larry Borowosky of Viva El Birdos wrote the Cardinal chapter. 

UPDATE: I just wanted to clarify that the analytical framework outlined in this post was pioneered by...well, I don't know, but it was a long time ago and it sure wasn't me.  As before, I can't take any credit for the ideas.  But also as before, I hope this is a useful and easy-to-understand primer.  The goal of this post, as well as my last one, is to make the "new-fangled" stats a little less mysterious and a little more accessible. 

 

 

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I don't think I'm allowed to comment yet,

because where I am it's still only Striday.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 15, 2008 9:44 PM PST   0 recs

Great work Salb

Your posts are always interesting to read from a statistical purpose. I would believe that Travis Buck and Kurt Suzuki are projected to score more runs than what they have up there if they play to what happened last year. Also the list is missing Chris Denorfia as he has the greatest chance of being the opening day CF.

by Coffee13eans on Feb 15, 2008 10:26 PM PST   0 recs

considering denorfia didn't play at all last year

it's possible THT didn't do a projection for him.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Feb 16, 2008 4:32 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, we missed him.

Oversight on THT's part. If I can convince them to do a projection, then I'll pass it along.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 16, 2008 6:36 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Hey, man, I have an argument with the Pythagorean Equation!

And this is both the time AND the place!

Don't we already have a Pythagorean Theory, which has nothing to do with baseball and predates Mr. James considerably? Couldn't he have called it something more apropos, like the Jamesian equation, or the Scoring and Winning: Yeah, baby! theory? This has always bothered me.

Also, anyone else ever hear the old joke about the sons of the squaw on the hippopotomus rug being equal to the sons of the squaws on the other two hides? Just me?

There is an A in Whimsy.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Feb 16, 2008 2:02 AM PST   0 recs

how about "Scoring Against Losing Ballgames"

Especially if that particular formula followed 917 previous unsuccessful hypothesized equations.

Even if they're clever, they become stupid with repetition. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 16, 2008 4:28 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Also, salb

You have a rare flair for putting heavy statistical concepts in terms anyone who wants to learn can grasp. I bet you were a big hit on the grad student teaching circuit (though probably not enough to pry you from the lucrative embrace of the Dow-types) Many thanks.

There is an A in Whimsy.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Feb 16, 2008 2:10 AM PST   0 recs

Thank you for that.

I very much appreciate it.

I was a teaching assistant for a term - I had a good time but I don't know if my students did. Apparently, I got a reputation for being jerk about grades (i.e., my not giving two craps about 2 extra points on some random assignment rubbed people the wrong way).

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 16, 2008 6:34 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Nick Swisher created almost 14.5 runs more with his bat than an average player did

is that per 690 plate appearances (or does it not matter)?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Feb 16, 2008 4:20 AM PST   0 recs

Per 690.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 16, 2008 6:32 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

yeah, i didn't see that part

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Feb 17, 2008 4:16 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

we'll get that table problem fixed ASAP

I'm one of the guys that built the new SB Nation

by clockwerks on Feb 16, 2008 8:24 AM PST   0 recs

I'm not nearly smart enough . . .

. . . to have an opinion about your stats and methods (though I think I can recognize talent when I see it) but I was interested in your points awarded for difficulty of fielding a position. I'll bet there could be a VERY spirited discussion about which position(s) are hardest and easiest to field. Why, for example, are 2nd and 3rd considered equal? At 2nd, you not only have to "field" all the balls hit to you, but you have to turn the double play (while avoiding Ty Cobb), which you don't have to do at 3rd. And why is 1st considered the "easiest" when you also have to "field" everything hit to you (in exactly the same way as 3rd) but stretch and dig throws out of the dirt w/ the runner bearing down and turn the tough 3-5/4-3 DP and lead the covering pitcher, etc. etc. Not saying I disagree (well, maybe a little) but I just found it interesting that in a piece so admirably supported by thought and analysis that you included a fielding index that seems so subjective. As I said, my brain starts to smoke whenever it's confronted by something as simple as calculating time zone differences (especially if one zone does and another zone doesn't go on daylight savings time!) so I suspect you're way ahead of me. Just askin' is all.

"Life without geometry has no point"

by camperdog on Feb 16, 2008 8:42 AM PST   0 recs

All good points

I threw the positional adjustments out there without a lot of explanation, so I'm glad that you asked.

We measure offense by assigning a run value to each event (HR, out, 2B, etc). We can to the same thing for defense: assign a run value to a ball hit directly at the fielder, or hit 10 feet to his right, or whatever. If the fielder makes the play, they get credited for saving that number of runs. The input is a little bit more subjective, and there are certainly many devils in the details. But the idea is the same.

Anyway, if you do that you will get an idea of how many runs each fielder saves. And if you average the information by positions, you would find that an average second baseman and an average third baseman save about the same number of runs. Same with corner outfielders.

That's the basic framework. I'm looking for a link with the more thorough study, but I can't find one right now. The numbers I presented here aren't subjective, but I did present them without explanation, so I understand where you're coming from. Good question.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 16, 2008 9:18 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I can't find the link on Tango's blog

but I did see a post from him fairly recently that those numbers are adjustable and are not set in stone, the key being that a set and reasonable system be used.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Feb 16, 2008 9:59 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Thanks.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 16, 2008 10:18 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

It does seem a little odd ...

since the average 2b gets nearly twice as many total chances as the average 3b. It seems hard to believe that 3b could be enough more difficult than 2b to overcome that built in deficit.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Feb 16, 2008 11:27 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Huh.

Did not realize that. Not sure what's going on there.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 16, 2008 12:14 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Balls hit at 3B are much harder to field

The typical Zone Rating for a third baseman is, I believe, the lowest of any position (in percentage terms) other than catcher and pitcher, and ZR is weird for those positions.

Now, are the balls SO much harder that it ends up canceling out the fact that second basemen get twice as many hit to them? That I can't say.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 16, 2008 10:00 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I don't dispute that ... my experience definitely confirms those numbers ...

but I find it hard to believe it's enough more difficult to make up for the difference in chances.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Feb 17, 2008 9:24 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Probably more of a "rule of thumb" thing

If 3B was a -2, and 2B was a +2, they would both round to 0, since all of the above seem to be rounded to 5-run increments.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 17, 2008 9:48 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

that's true ...

but doesn't change my point ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Feb 18, 2008 2:15 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

outstanding read salb

I was a "stat head" growing up, albeit I got high on the traditional stuff. You've obviously taken it to a new level, you put a lot of time in it, and yet it's pretty simple for anyone to follow.

Very impressive post.

"Oakland has now increased its payroll to the point that it now ranks third in the Bay Area among all McDonald's franchises.”

-Sandy Alderson, former A’s general manager.

by 67MARQUEZ on Feb 16, 2008 9:08 AM PST   0 recs

As 67MARQUEZ says,
and yet it's pretty simple for anyone to follow

This is what kills me about the critics of sabremetrics. PRAR (as presented here), Runs created, etc, are in fact very easy to understand with even basic math, and yet the Jon Heymans, Bill Plaschkes, etc, of the world have a fit anytime someone brings this up.

BTW, in case anyone doubts the accuracy of this stat, we all know how horrible Jason Kendall was last season. salb's last post had Kendall at 54 runs/650 PA. Scaling this to 690 PA gives us 57 runs, minus 71.5, +10 for catcher, and we get PRAR = -4.5. No wonder the A's paid the Cubs to take him off their hands. I have no idea what THT has projected for Kendall this season, but I hope for the Brewers' sake they hit their pitchers eighth and Kendall ninth.

"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick, 10/7/07

by doctorK on Feb 17, 2008 9:55 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Thanks

That was all very clear, and I'll probably forget the whole lot of it in a half hour. A couple of questions, though:

First, because the projections for the A's seemed to be a bit off this year, I did a little on-line research and discovered that these projection services do no better than about 70% accuracy per player on a year to year basis. That being the case, how seriously should we take full team projections at this point of the year? In other words, in hindsight, other than as tools to determine salary arbitration or to answer arguments in terms of quality, how accurate is this stuff in terms of figuring out the future, say in terms of how many games I'll go to and wind up depressed at? Parenthetically, of course, we can look at the D-Backs last year and see how out of whack their won-lost record was with their simple RS/RA formula.

Also, the FJM site uses something called WARP2 and some sites use WARP3. Can you explain simply what the difference between these and WARP?

by richwol1 on Feb 16, 2008 10:33 AM PST   0 recs

I'm not sal,

but for WARP / WARP2 / WARP3, I personally ignore them, unless I absolutely have too use it.

Firstly, the defensive evaluations they use are considered by many to be mediocre. Even the BPro writers, with the exception of the hardcore "in BPro we trust" ones like Joe Sheehan, generally disregard the defensive metrics that WARP / WARP2 / WARP3 uses. The more open minded ones like Kahrl, Fox, SIlver do not appear to rely on the defensive metrics that WARP uses. BPro actually has a new defensive metric, SFR by Dan Fox, that is better, but it is not used in WARP unfortunately.

Also, the replacement level used in WARP is ridiculously low. To get a negative value in WARP, a player has to play like Ray Durham did in 2007, to use an example. Pathetic offense, awful D. Worse actually. Durham actually was at 0 WARP. Basically, by WARP, Ray Durham 2007 was a replacement player.

The difference between the various versions of WARP are that 2 and 3 are compared to ALL players, ie every baseball player ever. WARP1 is just players from the same era as that player.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Feb 16, 2008 11:32 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

WARPing it ...

Here's a link to the official explanation.

The difference between WARP2/3 is minimal for batters -- it just prorates their stats to a 162 game season, if they were playing in the 154 game era.

Pitchers can be more complicated -- but the idea is to make playing time comparable across eras.

As far as projections go -- they aren't perfect, it's true. But they're the best that we've got. Many projections actually offer a range of possible outcomes for each player. They also cannot really take into account the possibility of serious injury (though they do account for ongoing injuries/poor health).

How accurate is it for teams?
Lets ask a really smart (and handsome) guy!

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Feb 16, 2008 11:36 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Subject now required?

What rfloh said about WARP.

As for accuracy, there is an upper limit on how well any projection system does. The THT system is fairly new and didn't do that great last year. David Gassko and Chris Constancio worked hard to improve it for this year, but how well it does is an open question.

How seriously can you take full team projections? Not sure, really. Even if a system is dead-on accurate, there can still be a +/- 6 wins in reality based on random chance alone. So it's hard to know for sure.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 16, 2008 12:09 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Thanks

Sounds like the folks at places like FJM should take stats like WARP1, WARP2 and WARP3 a bit less seriously.

In terms of full team projections...again, thanks. It sounds like this to me: any statistical projection has a +/-6 wins based on chance alone, meaning I'd guess how balls in play are caught or not caught. Then throw in injuries to key players with unknowns replacing them, then throw in career years, downer years, unexpected crashes and rookie or second-year unanticipated improvement, (which may or may not cancel any other factor out), and you've got something not much different from any knowledgeable baseball fan pulling numbers out of their own hats. It's likely, I assume, that taken as a whole, over x number of years, the projection system will win in a landslide, but in terms of practicality, again, meh.

by richwol1 on Feb 16, 2008 1:34 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Actually, it's a good question.

Gather the most knowledgeable fans you know, have them make their predictions, average 'em, and see how they stack up to the computers.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 16, 2008 1:36 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

but will the computer

fist-bump me after a home run or buy me a beer before sales end in the seventh?

not to impugn your work whatsover, sal, but the joy I get out of watching baseball is the chance that amazing things- things that the computer cannot project- will happen.

"Oakland has now increased its payroll to the point that it now ranks third in the Bay Area among all McDonald's franchises.”

-Sandy Alderson, former A’s general manager.

by 67MARQUEZ on Feb 16, 2008 1:56 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I don't think you would disagree, sal

I guess I was overstating the obvious that nothing is like the real thing. And as I said earlier, I thoroughly enjoyed this post. If I ever make it out to Boston, first beer's on me.

"Oakland has now increased its payroll to the point that it now ranks third in the Bay Area among all McDonald's franchises.”

-Sandy Alderson, former A’s general manager.

by 67MARQUEZ on Feb 16, 2008 3:17 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Deal.

And you're absolutely right - ain't nothing like a Duchscherer yakker to strike out Pedro Feliz and seal the game.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 16, 2008 3:29 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

A replacement level pitcher

ought to be able to strike out Pedro Feliz...

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Feb 16, 2008 10:03 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

No, but sal might ... if he weren't in Boston, anyway ...

No one wouldn't rather be at the ballpark with a brew and a bud, hopefully watching some amazing things happen ...

Sadly, they aren't playing baseball at Raley Field, the Coliseum or Fenway right now, so we have to do something else to pass these dark days of winter ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Feb 16, 2008 2:06 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Question

First off, this was an awesome post. I had forgotten how to calculate runs above replacement level. I think the two biggest issues with it were things that you addressed (i.e. injury prone players do not last 690 PA's, and position does matter). However, I feel like it is a little impractical to compare these players to a replacement level team rather than a team of higher standards. I mean, it is theoretically possible to field a 50 win team, but the GM has to be god awful to do so. Take Jack Cust for example; he was called up as a "replacement level player" from the minors, making a minimum salary, but outproduced replacement level players. I mean, I guess this makes him not a replacement level player, but if a GM is savvy enough, it shouldn't be hard to field a team better than 50 wins. Therefore, when calculating the value of a player, it seems more pertinent to value him against the league average. The goal of baseball isn't to be better than 50 wins, its to make the playoffs (since the playoffs are a crapshoot anyways), and do to that, a team has to be at least above 82 wins, or league average. So, with the numbers that were provided, Chavy contributed 38 PRAR/690, but if you subsitute runs and average player produces rather than a replacement level, you get 97-88.5+0= 8.5 runs above league average for 3b. I feel like this is a better way to get a feel for how good a player is or isn't, because it shows how much they contribute to a winning team, not just the worst team in the league, which any GM with half a brain can put together. I'm probably way off base here, but anyway, thanks for the article again, I'd love to see more posts like this one!

by DyeLongJustice on Feb 16, 2008 10:42 AM PST   0 recs

Replacement level

It's true that a guy like Jack Cust, just lying around the minors, is far better than replacement. A good team will find these players and round out their rosters with them. In a perfectly efficient market, I would imagine that true replacement players would approach replacement level performance.

Valuation against league average versus replacement is a personal choice. Economic analyses should always use replacement, since there is a salary floor. Other analyses can use average if that is more intuitive. As I'm sure you can see, it's just a matter of whether or not we subtract 88 or 59 from the gross value. If average is more intuitive for you...go for it! Just remember that you can still apply the position adjustment to get "position-adjusted runs above average." Your call.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 16, 2008 12:13 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Thanks

and keep up the awesome posts

by DyeLongJustice on Feb 16, 2008 12:48 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

replacement level runs allowed

Thanks for the primer; it's kind of like spring training for AN--limber up those brains.
But why do we assume a replacement level team gives up the league average number of runs? Isn't it likely such a team would give up more? Or is this just a necessary assumption to get to runs scored?

by skutch on Feb 16, 2008 12:57 PM PST   0 recs

The last thing you said.

We're not looking at a replacement level team, we're looking at a replacement level offense. Obviously, there are many ways to get to a replacement level team - awful hitting, awful pitching, awful defense, some combination. But the baseline for hitters should be a replacement level offense, not replacement level team.

Good, insightful question.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 16, 2008 1:03 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Got it

probably the way baseball works anyhow. the minors (and used car lots) are full of glove men.

by skutch on Feb 16, 2008 5:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

It's an interesting question.

If you compare the top 30 players at a given position (in terms of playing time) against everybody else at that position, it turns out the "regulars" are - on average - as good defensively as the "backups."

What that implies is that a "replacement player" is replacement level with the bat, NOT the glove. (I think.)

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 16, 2008 5:58 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

But that's not to say

that a guy can't get down to replacement level by some combination of bad fielding and bad hitting.

This gets confusing pretty quickly, I know.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 16, 2008 5:59 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

This is why replacement level is somewhat confusing

Some people, MGL, Tango, when they talk about replacement level, mean a player who was replacement level basically in either offense or defense, that is he was replacement level offensively, average defensively, or replacement level defensively, average offensively, or somewhat below average offensively and defensively, to the point that he is replacement level in total. An example of a replacement level in this system would be Mike Piazza 2007, maybe.

Baseball Prospectus' WARP on the other hand, has replacement level as replacement level offensively AND defensively, which is why Ray Durham, who was awful both offensively and defensively, is replacement level in their system.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Feb 16, 2008 1:22 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

TY salb

for posting this primer. It is fairly easy to follow...and I am going to keep it in a folder to easily find and refer back to .

OH and... I ordered the book from ACTA today. Will look forward to reading the part that you wrote. :-)

by IM4Oakgal on Feb 16, 2008 2:32 PM PST   0 recs

Thank you IM4Oakgal

I wrote this with you in mind: only partly familiar with the "new-fangled" stats but intelligent and open-minded enough to learn. I take your comment as a great compliment.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 16, 2008 2:43 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

What a nice thing to say to me.

And I am starting to understand the sabermetric stuff. Reading your posts and others here on AN, regularly reading Beyond The Boxscore, THT and subscribing to Baseball Prospectus now for over a year is helping it to sink in. But I have to admit I will regularly be looking at the glossary on the THT pre-season preview I ordered to help me interpret the meaning of the stats in the book.
I re-copied your post with the corrections too.

Thanks for being willing to write up these tutorials and keep them coming on your "staturdays".

by IM4Oakgal on Feb 17, 2008 4:30 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I'm not getting this
[T]he average number of runs scored in an AL game was 4.9. So, it stands to reason that an average player would have created 4.9 runs in a game. From the arithmetic above, we know that there were on average 38.2 plate appearances in a game. So, the average player would have created 4.9/38.2 = 0.13 runs per plate appearance, or 88.5 runs per 690 plate appearances.

If the average player created 4.9 runs per game, wouldn't a team comprised of 9 average players score 44.1 runs per game? Not many players, even significantly above-average ones, get 38.1 PAs/G.

I think what you mean is:

So, it stands to reason that an average team would have created 4.9 runs in a game. From the arithmetic above, we know that there were on average 38.2 plate appearances in a game. So, presuming that our "average team" is comprised entirely of (and only of) precisely average players (i.e., that run creation is distributed perfectly even across all the players on our average team), the average player would have created 4.9/38.2 = 0.13 runs per plate appearance, or 88.5 runs per 690 plate appearances.

Right?

Even if they're clever, they become stupid with repetition. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 16, 2008 4:21 PM PST   0 recs

Oh, and FSU ...

... you can style text inside of blockquotes in comments, at least.

Even if they're clever, they become stupid with repetition. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 16, 2008 4:23 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

The big revelation to me from my 3.0 diarizing experience

was how many aspects are different, now, in diary composition as opposed to comment composition. In 2.0 they were basically the same...ing srcs, a hrefs, blockquotes and text styles, etc. This has jumped up to my top couple of 3.0 issues: it's too damn hard to write a diary now, so many people will stop. And that would be a grievous loss.

There is an A in Whimsy.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Feb 16, 2008 4:35 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Yeesh.

That's some good sleuthing of a poorly-worded paragraph. Thanks for the fix.

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 16, 2008 4:26 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

that right there is actually what I get paid for

I'm no good at generating data, and only replacement-level skilled at writing it up, but I can polish someone else's writeup of data like nobody's business.

Even if they're clever, they become stupid with repetition. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 16, 2008 4:32 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

backhanded compliment alert:

I would argue that you are at least VORP-replacement level at writing (as opposed to Cleveland-Spiders-WARP replacement level).

Now that's a joke I never could have made a half-hour ago. Thanks Sal!

Brainless Automaton #439

by rubin sierra on Feb 16, 2008 11:59 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I aim to please!

stat-addled alien overlord

by salb918 on Feb 17, 2008 6:36 AM PST