could have meant the difference between making the playoffs in 2005 and watching them at home, and possibly going further in the post-season in '06, so you can almost see why the A's would have pushed him.

As for the comments, not the vibe I was looking for to start Spring Training.

Who on AN doesn't berlieve he has a legitimate beef?

and what do crosby and harden have in common?

FSU: Notice the final life of the article? 'Like the rest of his career, Rich Harden's new outlook is day to day." I'll say it again--I think Ratto reads AN, and it's been to his benefit.
monkeyball: Another half-assed article thrown together by Ratto. Talk about worthless; why doesn't he go and find something to do that's more useful for society; Like, I don't know, maybe he could become a telemarketer.
monkeyballs: I'm new here. Go A's!

oh Ratto, why must you try so hard to be T.J. Simers?

Hopefully, he'll be out there this year, and if he's not healthy, he won't be out there.

I get the sense that if it is all possible for this young man to finally have a breakthrough season- if it's at all possible for his fragile body to stay healthy from April till October- then this is the year. Harden has always been like that fine piece of crystal that really sparkled in the sunlight but would chip so easily if handled. Well, Rich - it's time to Shine! Good Luck in 2008 and make us all proud of ya!

the only thing he will have on his side is if he actually stays healthy and can be relied on by the team.

On the other hand, he and Crosby are not the only A's players who have complained about this. Hopefully the changes that the team made to the staff will help.

Did he have problems like this in high school/minors, or did these things creep up once he made it to the bigs?

At this point it is hard to believe it is entirely the medical staff's fault, plenty of other pitchers have been successful here. Perhaps a bad combination of being predisposed to injury and a Larry Davis No Pain No Gain plan.

I can't help but feel that both parties have to take some of the blame for his health. As stated above, he's not the only player to complain about the staff. This is how i could see the whole scenario going down:

Let's just say Rich Harden makes a start and notices that his shoulder is more sore than usual. So, he goes to the trainer to have it looked at. The trainer probably assumes that all pitchers are somewhat sore after throwing, otherwise they would be able to pitch everyday. So he tells him that it's normal and that he needs to play through it. And finally, what could have been something that would cost him a couple of starts turns into something that puts him on the disabled list for an extended amount of time.

Although i agree that Rich Harden is pretty fragile, i also believe that many of his numerous injuries could have been prevented or atleast been something more minor. Again, none of us will ever really know the truth, but this is just the gut feeling that i get from this whole fiasco.

if they really tried to get him to pitch with pain when he wasn't comfortable doing so. If they did it because he's exceptionally talented then they're doubly stupid for risking one of their most prized assets. If it was the post-season that's one thing, but in a non-contending season....

This is Bradley/Mini-G/Halsey-level insubordination. (Not that I disagree with the content of what Harden's saying, or fault him for saying it publicly.) Any other time a player has done this to Beane, though, he's been dispatched pretty quickly.

Look, I've got to say that the past few seasons have been dismal for the A's player's health. I really think it has something to do with the staff and I'm not sure if some changes have been made this offseason but there should be.

I'm not sure if it's Larry Davis or not but having a bunch of players roll through here and have nothing but injuries for the most part is quite upsetting.

All I want for this season is our players to be healthy and have a chance to develop. You would think that living in the Bay Area it would be quite conducive to such a state. The best years I had training were when I was in the bay. East coast sucks for it, too much weather toll on your body - comparatively of course.

After reading update upon update about how there was no structural damage, it sounds like he's being a baby. Gaudin pitched with a broken bone in his foot, and you didn't hear him whine about it. If Rich had a torn rotator cuff or something, I'd get his beef. But to me, it just sounds like he's trying to place blame on something other than he's either too fragile or he doesn't take care of himself properly.

Link

Harden reported early to work out with bullpen coach Ron Romanick, has already thrown off a mound twice and is scheduled to throw again Friday.

"He's hard to play catch with; his stuff is pretty lively," said Romanick, who worked with Harden throughout the pitcher's rise through the Minor Leagues. "He has a very unique delivery -- he's long and he's hard to pick up. ... And he has some [mechanical] cleanup issues."

Some of the issues could be related to last season's ailments, including a shoulder impingement that Harden said forced him to throw more violently and from a lower arm slot in order to maintain his velocity.

Anyone want to take bets on starts this year?

and in most of the comments here, that the "people in the organization" referred to in the article must be Davis or other people in the training/medical staff.

I can understand why people would jump to that conclusion, given the A's other injury problems (and Davis being kicked upstairs this off-season), but the article doesn't actually say, or even imply, that at all. To me, telling a player to pitch through pain sounds a lot more like something that would come from coaches or the front office than the training staff. Has no one else even considered this possibility?

It doesn’t matter who in the organization said things that upset him. “Pitch with pain” when? That would imply he actually has pitched. And when exactly has he done that? three years ago? This is just desperate talk from a pitcher who’s opportunity for long and successful career is almost over. He should wait until he strings together, like maybe 10 starts this year before he mouths off about being unhappy

Like others have pointed out. Spring Training is a place where hope springs eternal; this is not the type of article I want to see ON THE FIRST DAY! I think its bad timing.

I also think this is not setting a good example for all the new kids on the team. It probably is talked about among the players anyways but this sets a bad precedent. Why would the new kids want to trust the "organization" (be it the trainers or coaches) when the "veterans" don’t?

What a colossal waste of time and energy. Why does anyone think anything is going to be different with Harden this year as say, with the last, or the one before that, or perhaps, the one before that? Potential schmotential. He will pitch a game or two, get some non-descript injury and then pop up on the radar from month to month, throw an inning here and there. One day his arm will fall off in a game, and then MAYBE we will all get it, that the guy's body cannot sustain the velocity he is capable of and we need to just cut our losses and stop wasting our time. I am all for hope springing eternal, but geez, are we really going to do all this again?

Harden's "return" last season was a comedy of errors. "I'm feeling better," Rich would say. "We expect him to throw out of the pen in a 2-3 days," said the team. 5-6 days later, Harden would throw. "I felt good," he'd say. "We expect him to be available the day after tomorrow," said the A's.

5 days later Harden threw again. "I feel a little sore, but it's a normal kind of sore. I'm looking forward to pitching again soon." The team adds: "We're hopeful that Rich maybe will start next week." Harden disappears for 10 days, emerges in Arizona camp, stays silent. "We really think he'll have a start or two before the year's over," says the team. A week goes by. "Rich says his shoulder doesn't quite feel right, but we have him slotted to start Sept. 20th." says the team. Another week goes by. "Rich is no longer in our rotation plans for 2007."

The above is an approximation for illustrative purposes, not a researched chronicle. But this was the dynamic: Rich says positive things, teams says positive things, negative things happen. Team says positive things, Rich stops talking, more negative things happen. Team says vaguely negative insinuations, virtually nothing happens. Both parties set themselves and each other up in the press, and both failed to deliver on their promises/hopes. Seems as though medical mismanagement (which I totally believe could have happened) was much less a factor on this matter than was expectation and media mismanagement. Which tends to point a lot further up the franchise food chain than Larry Davis.

Now that we see the exact same quotes from the Ratto column in the mlb.com article, I'm curious as to where, when, and to whom Rich actually said this stuff.
- Did he say it in front of a gaggle of reporters?
- Did he say it to one reporter, who put it in print and then other reporters/columnists just picked it up?
- Did he approach one reporter with this, or was he approached and opened up?

Fit in all this medical discussion?

Could it be, after the fact, that he discussed the whole episode of the 2007 season with the "famed" chiropractor, and the guy said, "Why'd you do that???!! You should have never "x" "y" or "z"ed".

And here it is, 2008, and Harden has synthesized a story.

PS I still don't trust chiropractors treating someone on a Major professional team versus MD specialist. Just MHO.

We have seen many times that Billy Beane does not tend to keep guys around when they speak up and complain about what's going on.
I hope that is not the case with Harden.
I would love to see a season of healthy Harden. I know we all would. I hope that happens and that it happens in Oakland.

It is horrible to hear that these athletics feel as though the staff here does not keep their health in mind. It's just awful to hear that Harden, or anyone, has been pushed to play when they are not ready. Shame on these people within the organization.

pay a guy millions of dollars and then ask him to pitch. Cruel. Unbelievable. The nerve.

shut up and pitch

Seems to me that ultimately Rich should have either put his foot down and not pitched at all from an early point -- or pitched through it.

And the team should have either unconditionally insisted that he pitch no matter what -- or respected his feedback regarding his body's reaction and backed the F off and helped him explore therapeutic options.

The compromises made by both sides ended up being to the detriment of both, and the advantage of neither.

And, yes, it's easy to say this now -- but it's also been very easy to say this the last three years, and many of us have been doing so.