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Fremont + San Jose ballpark news

I covered last night's ballpark workshop. I didn't catch anything new, but KTVU reporter Lloyd LaCuesta did. I took a screengrab.

Fremont-120808-selig_medium

This is considered a green light to talk with San Jose, a city that has to overcome territorial rights restrictions (Santa Clara County is Giants territory). Despite this, they have four things in their favor: a ballpark site, an adjacent site to develop, future BART and Caltrain/High Speed Rail nearby, and an already completed environmental impact report. I have received a few messages indicating that territorial rights will be discussed this week at the Winter meetings. Those talks may be limited to television rights as related to the launch of the MLB Network. They may be expanded to include Santa Clara County.

I will be at the Fremont City Council session tomorrow evening and will report here and at the ballpark blog.

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unless NUMMI is gone san jose probably makes a lot more sense than fremont.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 9, 2008 1:23 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

The question is though, if they did go to SJ

what would happen to the Fremont land and all the money spent there thus far. Can they continue with the development (at a later date) or does it have to be nixed w/o the Ballpark.

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Dec 9, 2008 1:31 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Some of the money would be lost

As I understand it the A’s have only bought 40-50 acres but have options on the rest. They’d have to sit on the land they’ve already purchased since it’s not likely to get rezoned in a lucrative manner. The council was very clear about it being all or nothing. The only option I see is if the council allows only the retail part to be built. That would require a completely new EIR and more lead time.

by vertig0 on Dec 9, 2008 8:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

$$$

A lot of the money MLB and its owners make comes from CBAs like with Fox, ESPN and Satellite TV and radio. If Fremont can’t happen, the options are leaving the A’s in Oakland where their revenue stream will continue to be what it is, or try it in San Jose, where it’s believed that the revenue would be significantly greater. Selig will throw some concessions the Giants’ way, possibly including a chunk of the A’s revenue a la the Orioles/Nats deal, (though hopefully not that bad,) but “territorial rights” will be old news.

I’d almost root for that outcome just so the phrase “of Fremont” never enters the baseball lexicon.

by Nate on Dec 9, 2008 6:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

are you OK w/"of San Jose"?

Sure, they could just go with “SJ A’s,” but that’s leaving potential geographic naming rights cash on the table.

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 9:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bay Area A’s?

The Maharg makes me look like an idiot.

by carp on Dec 9, 2008 10:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

BAA

Thanks for tomorrow 'cause I've had enough

by andeux on Dec 9, 2008 10:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No way "of San Jose" will happen.

The city of San Jose spent millions in taxpayer money to buy the land that would be used for the stadium and run the enviornmental impact report.

Hell will freeze over before the city of San Jose lets someone else get top billing. They didn’t let San Francisco’s name be associated with the Sharks even though the NHL origionally said they wanted a “San Francisco” team or no team at all, and they wont let the A’s be billed Oakland, Bay Area, or of San Jose.

I think the assumption should be that if the A’s do move to San Jose the name WILL be the San Jose A’s.

Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.

by Threepwood XX on Dec 9, 2008 11:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The San Jose's?

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Dec 9, 2008 3:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

woh this is totally awesome news

is this, like, for real? do you see this as actually providing a possibility to lead somewhere?

Save Rajai Davis

by oakinboston on Dec 9, 2008 6:32 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

If Selig is going public with this type of information,

then you can be certain he is sure of the outcome. He never acts without knowing that he has a solid consensus behind him. The other owners have showed the Giants the blade they will use to slit their throats.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Dec 9, 2008 7:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yikes! Remind me not to get on your bad side.

Oh and Yay!

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 9, 2008 7:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I get nowhere unless the team wins

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 9:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Does this also imply

that communities such as, ahem, LAS VEGAS are in play as well? For example?

And remind me to change my sig.

Let's Go Fremont! clap clap clapclapclap

by SF Geoff on Dec 9, 2008 8:24 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Any community is possible

That would presumably include Vegas, Sacramento, and yes, Oakland.

by vertig0 on Dec 9, 2008 8:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

*Any* community?

How about the LGBT community?

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 9:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure — just don’t get married to that idea — yet.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 9, 2008 9:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or the Netherlands

We’re not alone in the world

it is not possible to strategize while the ball is coming towards you

by eastcoasta'sfan on Dec 9, 2008 1:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How about a Senior Citizens Community?

The Rossmoor A’s, anyone?

If that was the case, they’d need to be renamed the Rossmoor Cougars.

I blame Englishmajor.

by McFood on Dec 9, 2008 12:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

goodbye Stomper, hellllllllo Crazy Peninsula Air-Horn Lady

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 12:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ive seen this before

what is it from?

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Dec 9, 2008 3:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This article from SFGate about mountain lion sightings in Rossmoor. Ms. Michel-Lehman’s natty lion-hunting outfit is just too wonderful.

by Englishmajor on Dec 9, 2008 3:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

She's huntin' cougar -- don't need no lugar,

… just hair from ’64.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 9, 2008 5:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 5:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Errrkk.

Luger.

What a difference … an A makes …

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 9, 2008 5:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

D'oh!

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 10, 2008 8:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't tell who she reminds me of more...

The Log Lady from Twin Peaks

or one of this guy’s characters… maybe Pinko or Issues:

"I'm going to take a camera crew and march into Billy Beane's office and demand to know why instituting his newfangled cost-saving measures means that the run manufacturing plant had to get shut down." FJM

by Elvez on Dec 10, 2008 6:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wellllll . . .

Maybe possible, but Vegas is a less likely than Sacramento, Oakland, San Jose, Fremont, Portland, Charlotte, Oklahoma City, Keokuk, Mexico City, San Juan, London and Atlantis.

The only one here that wants an MLB team (and stadium) here is the publicity-hungry mayor. Local businesses don’t want one and local residents don’t want one (unless the tickets are free.)

Add that to the economic picture (Harrah’s, Sands and Stations teetering on bankruptcy, MGM leveraged to the hilt, huge foreclosure and unemployment numbers), and the stigma attached to legalized sports betting that has frightened the MLB, NBA, NHL, and NFL away for years.

Vegas is a place for winter meetings, a couple of spring training games, and a Triple-A team. That’s all.

by EddieVegas_NRAF on Dec 9, 2008 10:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"Any" redux

San Francisco? Hunter’s Point? Candlestick Point? Treasure Island?

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 10:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, primate, would TI have been cool for a shared stadium!

Almost as cool as this:

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 9, 2008 10:14 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

What is that?

Go Bears!

by RollOnYouBears667 on Dec 9, 2008 10:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"F-8"

Either “You sank my stadium-ship!” or “You flied out to Sweeney!”

Let's Go Fremont! clap clap clapclapclap

by SF Geoff on Dec 9, 2008 11:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Too bad we don't have Carlos Gonzales any more

Patrol craft.

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Dec 9, 2008 11:26 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

It's a floatah.

Couldn’t find a proper baseball stadium version. Why izzat, do you s’pose?

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 9, 2008 2:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

DUDE!

Is that the GI Joe Aircraft Carrier repurposed to be a floating stadium?!?!?!

by jeffro on Dec 9, 2008 12:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

does it have enough lifeboats?

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Dec 9, 2008 3:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Did someone say lifeboats?

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 3:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Did someone say lifeboats?

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 5:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I like the Sacramento idea

Im aware we have the Rivercats here but in my opinion that is a very small detail. I believe Sacramento is an area that really gets energized by having a competitive professional sports team. They would be the ONLY professional baseball team in the direct area rather than having the Giants right across the bay. They dont move so far away(i.e. Las Vegas) that their current fans who live in the area have no hope to ever seeing them again more than once or twice a year. So you combine current fans with a pretty good sized city who has shown passion for professional sports teams(Kings) and you have a very good possible market to go into. Staying in the bay area is also a very good option because that is where they have been for quite some time now and they have a good fan base. I say either stay in the bay area or dont go any futher away then a place like Sacramento… Staying in Oakland would be really cool but are there any potential places for a new field?

by yawedout21 on Dec 9, 2008 10:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

people are already complaining about having to drive an extra 20 min

I don’t think Sacramento would be close enough.

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Dec 9, 2008 10:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sacramento would be close enough for Sacramentans...

Kings fans pack Arco Arena and spend way too much money even though the team sucks biscuits and the arena is decrepit.

If the A’s were to move here, the fanbase would be rabid and loyal. However, the corporate money isn’t there because it’s a government town. Then again, if the economy keeps tanking, the corporate money won’t be anywhere at all.

"I have more questions after these."-WaddellCanseco

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 9, 2008 12:08 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

That's just not true ...

The Kings are presently second to last in the NBA in attendance …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 9, 2008 12:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

government town, you say?

Ladies and gentlemen, your Federal Bailout Windfall Athletics of Sacramento!

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 12:18 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

what if?

Las Vegas becomes the option…Las Vegas or Sacramento what do you say?

by yawedout21 on Dec 10, 2008 2:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They're both lousy options before considering issues of driving distance ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 10, 2008 2:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

not to mention the fact that BART doesn't yet go to either

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 10, 2008 2:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A's should move to Las Vegas

:-)

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Dec 9, 2008 10:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sacramento....really?!?

last Rivercats game I went to in Sacramento it was 115 degrees in the shade…fans were being escorted out from heat exhaustion…no way to enjoy baseball when your eyeballs are sweating. I guess maybe if they carved the seats out of iceblocks before each game…the cupholder would keep your beer nice and frosty.

"Isotopes win a game! Isotopes win a game!"

by Hungry Hungry Homer on Dec 9, 2008 11:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They don't play many summer day games ...

and the summer nights are perfect weather for baseball … it’s still not a good idea, but the weather isn’t that big of an issue …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 9, 2008 12:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nope ...

Sacramento would be among the very smallest MLB metro areas — bigger than Milwaukee but comparable to or smaller than everything else. You’ll get a few Bay Area fans — but not the ones WolffCo really wants (the ones with money who buy season tickets/luxury boxes). Sacramento has a minimal corporate presence (few boxes sold) and, while it has supported the Kings enthusiastically when they’ve won, it is currently among the worst in the game now, as they’re losing.

Also, the only really good location is currently being looked at for a new arena for the Kings …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 9, 2008 11:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But these corporate guys don't want to spend their own money.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 9, 2008 5:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

the upside of a down economy?

"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey

by JJ on Dec 9, 2008 8:34 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Leverage?

Maybe I’m getting all “second gunmen on the grassy knoll” but looking at the timing and the verbage, could this just be a tool from Selig to give his buddy some leverage to push Fremont along?

If they are going to start reviewing the EIR in ernest and Lew feels there might be some problems, could he have gone to his buddy and said, “Hey, give me something I can use to push Fremont in the direction I want.” Bud gives a letter just before this meeting that implies Lew can go to San Jose without stating it and now Fremont feels they must make concessions or lose out.

I don’t know, the timing and vagueness of the statement seem pretty coincidental to me.

by whyareyou on Dec 9, 2008 9:08 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Honestly for now I think this is what this really means

I agree, I think this is just a leveaging tool to get Fremont to hurry up and approve Cisco Field. But it also doubles as a backup plan in the event Fremont fails.

by athletics68 on Dec 9, 2008 10:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Putting pressure won't work

Put it this way: If Wolff wanted to shorten the process, he wouldn’t have included the Warm Springs alternative in the study. Warm Springs will require additional research and background work, plus it will change the landscape of the business dealings between the A’s and the City. If quicker resolution were the priority, the Notice of Preparation would’ve included the original plan and a “No Build” alternative. That’s simple and was all that was required.

The whole point of moving on the Pacific Commons site was the supposed path of least resistance. The area already had an EIR that Wolff thought he could leverage. Part way in he found out they’d have to start from scratch. It had a fairly clean, cheap land deal that has been made more difficult by the wishes of neighboring businesses. And it had a funding mechanism that was positive at conception but has been blown to smithereens because of the economy. It’s been anything but a path of least resistance.

by vertig0 on Dec 9, 2008 11:49 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

When were the A's Not free to discuss matters with other communities, anyway?

Giaunties and Fremont parking attendants have to be the intended audience. Gs’ new Prez must be poopin’ out big bricks.

Cue Burt Bacharach … (methinks I smells an interlude coming from the general direction of the zoological society)

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 9, 2008 9:15 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

see my response to alox above

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 9:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

/ducks

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 9, 2008 9:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you have another source besides channel 2?

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 9, 2008 9:30 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hey vertig0

Could you email me — at the address in my profile? Looking to set up a possible radio interview for later in the week….

by Englishmajor on Dec 9, 2008 9:38 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Huh, there must be something held up in these negotiations with Fremont

Otherwise, why would Wolffy involve the Selig? There must still be some obstacle among the pols.

Actually, Fremont makes more sense than SJ. I don’t like Fremont, but the change to a BART friendly location makes a big difference.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 9, 2008 9:48 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I don't think it's the pols

So much as it’s the process. It’s taking way too long, if Wolff can speed it along so much the better. Unless you want to get really conspiratorial and think that Fremont was just another “see I tried in Alameda County” move so Wolff has deniability when he finally goes to San Jose.

by athletics68 on Dec 9, 2008 10:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The process is ending soon enough

The draft EIR will come in two months. The final will come several months after that. There is absolutely nothing the A’s, the City or the firm handling the report can do to accelerate it. That is the process. The only reason it’s taking this long is because it’s so complex. If they wanted to ramp it up they should’ve submitted something smaller in scale.

by vertig0 on Dec 9, 2008 11:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Could the Warm Springs plan have already been derailed?

After reading about all the NIMBY’s that showed up from the upscale neighborhoods just east of 680 and the Warm Springs site it seems to me that location may already be still born when it comes to building the stadium there. Could this SJ talk just be a response to that?

by athletics68 on Dec 9, 2008 10:45 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

You'll see tonight

I went to a previous session in which the representatives from the same neighborhood argued vehemently against a much smaller project in the area. Council approved the project anyway. I don’t know if Council could go to that well again for a much project.

by vertig0 on Dec 9, 2008 11:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

San Jose A's

I like it (especially since I live in Sunnyvale). The only negative thing from my perspective would be the loss of a cheer equivalent to “LET’S GO OAKLAND”.

"However, at Elias, I think they keep track of the amount of sunflower seeds spit in a dugout each night." - Brad Ziegler, 8/7/08

by doctorK on Dec 9, 2008 11:02 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Let's go San-Ho?

Let's Go Fremont! clap clap clapclapclap

by SF Geoff on Dec 9, 2008 11:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What about reviving the San Jose Bees?

Isn’t this the 20th anniversary of their demise?

it is not possible to strategize while the ball is coming towards you

by eastcoasta'sfan on Dec 9, 2008 1:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My grandfather

Owned the B’s a long time ago.

Stomp,em, stomp the piss out of em.Then pound the budweiser after the game. Joe Schultz Seattle Piolts Mgr 1969

by billyball1981 on Dec 9, 2008 2:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"LET'S GO OAKLAND"

this isn’t the right chant anyway, just a bastardized version of “LET’S GO RED SOX” or “LET’S GO YANKEES”

The correct chant is “LET’S GO A’S”. Three beat count.

by Tim J on Dec 10, 2008 10:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not only that, "Take Me Out" should go:

  
Root, Root for the Ath-let-ics, rather than

Root, root root for the AAAA-aaaaas, … The latter just sounds stoopid and force-fit.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 10, 2008 10:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How about neither...

How about we sing the actual song. It’s “Root, root, root for the home team…”

by athletics68 on Dec 10, 2008 10:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Across the Bay Bridge

it would be so cool for the A’s stadium would be right across the Bay bridge on the Alameda / Emeryville side. And play directly across from each other

by Wreckonized on Dec 9, 2008 11:10 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

yet another reason my floating stadium island would rock ...

… it could float up alongside Warrantless Wiretap Park, unfurl the Jolly Roger, and unload a cannonade at the Giants before boarding and taking over the park.

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 11:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm

Last time I checked territorial rights don’t contain any mention of sovereignty.

by vertig0 on Dec 9, 2008 11:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The San Jose A's of Panamanian Registry

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 11:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No sales tax = cheaper tickets

No income tax = huge advantage signing players

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 9, 2008 7:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But wouldn't we worry about pirates then?

it is not possible to strategize while the ball is coming towards you

by eastcoasta'sfan on Dec 10, 2008 12:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Worrying about pirate threats is below us.

Directly so.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 10, 2008 12:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What about the threat of pirates?

I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.

by franks a lot on Dec 9, 2008 11:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

QOTM

Knocking the softball out of the park division

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 9, 2008 7:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If money gets tight

they can rent a series to neighboring ports. Sweet.

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Dec 9, 2008 11:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There goes my cool and relevant sig line

and “I dream of floating island stadiums and rainbows” is not as catchy

I dream of Fremont and rainbows

by OptimistPrime on Dec 9, 2008 11:26 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

"I dream of scurvy plague stadium vessels and rainbows"?

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Dec 9, 2008 11:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Two words

“Sunscreen malfunction”

Let's Go Fremont! clap clap clapclapclap

by SF Geoff on Dec 9, 2008 11:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I have ALWAYS been against the A's moving..

but, as a resident to San Francisco, I would rather them move to San Jose’ than Freemont.

 Although, I will hold out hope that the NFL moves or eliminates the Raiders despite the fact that I can’t shake the fact that I am a fan, no matter how hard I try not to be. That way he could redevelope the whole miserable lifeless area around the Colosium.

Is that Embry warming up?....... NOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

by iljackb on Dec 9, 2008 11:52 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

my thoughts

1. San Jose is even farther away from me, BOO! Anywhere outside of the Bay Area BOO!
2. City the rest of America might know, YAY!
3. San Jose A’s > Oakland A’s of Fremont (name wise)
4. Sacramento is too hot for baseball and too small of a market
5. Floating Stadium, YES PLEASE!

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Dec 9, 2008 11:53 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Did someone say floating stadium?

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 3:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

it's no secret that my strong preference has always been Oakland

as it’s the best location for ALL of the fan base – north, south, east and west. I’d be happy with a downtown ballpark, ballpark near Jack London Square, on part of the coliseum lot, or remodelling the coliseum for baseball with the Raiders leaving.

That said, I’ve always thought that a move to downtown San José made lots more sense, and would be more atractive, than building the ballpark village on the west side of 880 in Fremont. The era of sprawl is — or should be — over.

As for financing, even a “privately built” ballpark would demand tax breaks, redevlopment money, infrastructure improvements, and other incentives that amounts to significant public financing. At best the ballpark village plan is a private/publid venture that of course would cost the taxpayers money. That’s not to say I’d oppose such a plan, at least in theory, by the way.

by OaklandSi on Dec 9, 2008 12:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It better not include redevelopment money

Then it would have to go to a vote in SJ as any transfer of public funds goes to a vote, which Wolff doesn’t want and would likely never pass anyway.

by athletics68 on Dec 9, 2008 12:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

As the crow flies ...

Oakland makes a lot of sense … but most baseball fans aren’t crows … we drive cars that get stuck in traffic and, for many of us, it’s faster to drive a little farther on the 680 to Fremont than some combination of 13/80/980/880 …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 9, 2008 12:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

depends on where you live

there are lots of North Bay and San Francisco fans as well.

Besides the drive I also prefer the public transit options for Oakland.

by OaklandSi on Dec 9, 2008 1:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt the SF and Marin fans are that critical of a portion of the fan base ...

and the north East Bay has a heck of a lot less wealth and people, than the South Bay … every location has trade offs … but I see Fremont as a much better trade … (economically)

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 9, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I understand the attraction of a South Bay ballpark

at least in theory. I also respect the varying points of view that have been expressed. However, I can’t root for a deal that basically dismisses long time fans from so many parts of the Bay Area. After all, for me actually going to games is by far the most important part of being a fan.

by OaklandSi on Dec 9, 2008 2:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

As a fan, I want the A's to stay in Oakland ...

as an objective observer of the business … San Jose makes a ton of sense (if a reasonable arrangement can be reached with the Giants) …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 9, 2008 2:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that's why I said that while I want them to stay in Oakland

I’ve always thought a move to downtown San Jose was more attractive than the Fremont plan.

by OaklandSi on Dec 9, 2008 2:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I actually moved to Oakland to be closer to the stadium

I know, what a fanatic, however, it is true, and I would be very sad if they moved anywhere. Fremont is a better option for proximity to me, but I can see the allure of riches and exposure that SJ offers. There is no way in God’s green (and gold) earth I would move to Fremont however!

I dream of Fremont and rainbows

by OptimistPrime on Dec 9, 2008 2:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

when I first became an A's fan I lived in SF

and had up to that time been a NL fan. I simply fell in love with the Oakland A’s.
Also, at the time it was much easier to get to the coliseum by public transit than to Candlestick.

by OaklandSi on Dec 9, 2008 3:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

San Jose is best for the team

1) This is probably just a smoke screen to put more pressure on Fremont, I doubt things have really changed in terms of opening up San Jose.

2) If it is true, then that would be awesome. San Jose would be a way better location for the team than Fremont. It would be much easier to get to b/c of all the public transit downtown – caltrain station, amtrak, and the light rail (not to mention future BART extension), plus the presence of 4 freeways (unlike the fremont site which would have just 1 freeway).

As for northeastbay fans, who cares if it’s farther away if it means putting the team next to public transit? Doesn’t that still make it easier? I’d rather have the team be 20 miles away from me but accesible by public transit than 10 miles away but only accessible by car.

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Dec 9, 2008 2:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The Fremont location would be close to the 680 as well as the 880 ...

and fans who would take the 101 through San Jose could just as easily take the Dumbarton (84) to the 880 … I don’t see the presence of the 280 being that big of a deal …

San Jose might be good for some people on transit, but it depends where it is built, relative to the various transit options and IF and when BART actually gets built there. The current transit options would probably be useful for folks in the Silicon Valley — new fans, for the most part, but would do very little for current fans in the rest of the Bay Area.

There are also absolutely no transit options from the North Bay to San Jose and, while transit may eventually be available, it would quickly become cost prohibitive for families who have any distance to travel. It’s much more expensive for families to take transit than to drive (assuming they own a car).

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 9, 2008 2:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

for fans who do drive from the North Bay

having to add the full length of 880 would probably be a dealbreaker.

Presumably the A’s feel they can add fans from the South Bay to make up for those of us who depend on public transit, and live north of Fremont, in Contra Costa County and in SF…but that sucks for quite a few long time A’s fans.

by OaklandSi on Dec 9, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There won't ever be a viable North Bay transit option to SJ

Marin/Sonoma are stuck on an idiotic independent train that doesn’t connect to anything but the ferries when a more expensive BART connection would be far more beneficial in the long run.

But if it’s near BART, crossing the bridge towards the north end of the east bay and hopping on BART from there wouldn’t be a deal breaker.

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Dec 9, 2008 3:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No, but he was saying increasing the distance is okay because transit options make up for it ...

Meaningful transit options currently do not exist to anywhere north of Fremont in Alameda/Contra Costa and do not and never will exist to the North Bay …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 9, 2008 3:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

There are no transit options now and a very small portion of the A’s fanbase is from the North Bay. I don’t think they risk losing much by moving south and stand to gain alot more. Especially when you consider that 2 of the 3 Fremont/SJ sites are on the future BART line.

by athletics68 on Dec 9, 2008 3:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

the first of the planned future BART stations

— and the only one with a chunk of $$ at least partly assured — is the Warm Springs station. any others would be in the far future, much farther than we are talking about a new ballpark opening. So a San Jose ballpark would not be very accessible by public transit for fans around the Bay, except for in and around San Jose….and there are quite a few fans in throughout the East Bay and — yes, in San Francisco. I bump into them all the time in BART after games.

by OaklandSi on Dec 9, 2008 3:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Caltrain

There is an existing Caltrain station within steps of the ballpark site. Sharks fans from the Peninsula/SF don’t have trouble taking Caltrain to the Tank. BART is projected for the area in 2018, High Speed Rail in 2020.

by vertig0 on Dec 9, 2008 4:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"steps"?

Where is the proposed SJ site? (sorry if I missed it somewhere upthread, I’m late)

Ray: "How fun is it to be up here playing in the Big Leagues?"
Gio: "It's *SUPER* fun!!!"

by Poppy on Dec 9, 2008 5:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 5:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

bwaha!

Ray: "How fun is it to be up here playing in the Big Leagues?"
Gio: "It's *SUPER* fun!!!"

by Poppy on Dec 9, 2008 5:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Literally steps


The station is to the left of the ballpark in the picture. For those that are wondering, they superimposed the Jake on the site.

by vertig0 on Dec 10, 2008 1:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm having a hard time orienting.

Is that the arena on the left edge of the frame? If so, would the ballpark development mean the end of the orphaned Stephen’s Meats sign?!

Ray: "How fun is it to be up here playing in the Big Leagues?"
Gio: "It's *SUPER* fun!!!"

by Poppy on Dec 10, 2008 4:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It would be right here

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=37.327581,-121.901529&spn=0.007712,0.013819&t=h&z=16

Bounded by San Fernando on the North, Park on the South, the Rails on the west and the River on the East.

by athletics68 on Dec 10, 2008 5:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sign will be saved

The city has already designated it to be of historic value. It will eventually be moved somewhere else. If the ballpark were built I’d like to see the sign in there. Maybe the pig could dance after home runs.

Yes, that is the arena on the left. The picture is facing east towards downtown and Mt. Hamilton.

by vertig0 on Dec 10, 2008 7:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What Vertig0 said

BART will be at the site about 5 years after the stadium, and it does have an assured money stream at this point. That’s what the latest vote that passed was all about.

by athletics68 on Dec 9, 2008 4:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

athletics68 you are simply wrong

Caltrain and Amtrak are awesome. Caltrain especially runs “baby bullet” (limited stop) trains for regular commuters that are also a great way to get to sports games during weekdays.

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Dec 9, 2008 4:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Caltrain's awesome except on days when someone decides to off himself.

Ray: "How fun is it to be up here playing in the Big Leagues?"
Gio: "It's *SUPER* fun!!!"

by Poppy on Dec 9, 2008 5:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

... or days when the bookkeeper tries to catch the train to Miami

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 5:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The tunnel ramps aren't as steep as stairs, but fun lighting effects...

Ray: "How fun is it to be up here playing in the Big Leagues?"
Gio: "It's *SUPER* fun!!!"

by Poppy on Dec 9, 2008 6:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How am I wrong?

I didn’t say anything about Caltrain. And I agree they’re awesome. I was just pointing out that BART will also be at the downtown stadium site inside 5 years after the stadium is built. Caltrain is already at the site, along with Amtrak, CC, ACE, VTA Lightrail, and soon the high speed train from LA.

by athletics68 on Dec 9, 2008 10:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think johnjahafanclub just misread

(which I did, too, at first). Misreading that you were saying there are no transit options to SJ — which isn’t what you were saying.

Although, theoretically, Caltrain would be part of a public transit option from the North Bay to SJ — if you ferried to SF, then I think you’d have to Muni to 4th & Townsend, then Caltrain to SJ… as long as you don’t mind being stranded when you want to head home at 10:00 p.m…. ;)

Ray: "How fun is it to be up here playing in the Big Leagues?"
Gio: "It's *SUPER* fun!!!"

by Poppy on Dec 9, 2008 11:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So I've never caught the ferry from Marin to SF or Caltrain at all ...

but how much would such a trip (there and back) cost?

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 10, 2008 1:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I've never ferried...

except touristy ferrying from Pier 41 to Alcatraz, or from Tiburon to Angel Island. But I’m ferry-curious, so I looked it up.

From Sausalito to San Jose, one way adult fare total: $16.45 ($7.45 ferry from Sausalito to SF; $1.50 bus from SF Ferry Bldg to train station; $7.50 Caltrain to SJ).

Ray: "How fun is it to be up here playing in the Big Leagues?"
Gio: "It's *SUPER* fun!!!"

by Poppy on Dec 10, 2008 5:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

{psst ... I'm down here}

; )

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 9, 2008 3:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Devo

I wouldn’t count 680 or 84 as being “routes” to access the stadium – neither get you directly there – you still have to take 880 or spend a long time on city streets if you go from 680 to the fremont site. On the other hand, a downtown SJ stadium site would be directly accessible by four freeways – 101, 280/680, 880/18, and 87.

I don’t know if you have been to SJ but the Caltrain/Amtrack station is right across the street from the Sharks stadium and it’s awesome. Many folks in Silicon Valley use Caltrain to get to Giants, Stanfurd, Niners, and Sharks games I imagine they would do the same for A’s games. You cannot say the same for a Fremont site.

“There are also absolutely no transit options from the North Bay to San Jose.”
What about AMTRAK???

As for public transit being more expensive for “families,” 1) stadium parking costs negate that, 2) more “families” live in the south bay than the east bay, 3) SJ has better freeway access than Fremont, 4) ergo more families could more easily access SJ site by car than Fremont site by car.

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Dec 9, 2008 4:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

PS: re: "north bay"

If by “north bay” you mean Marin, we should hardly be basing our stadium location on proximity to the county with the lowest population of any of the 9 counties of the bay area. There are probably more A’s fans in San Francisco and San Mateo, the heart of Giants territory, than there are in Marin.

Besides, it’s not like people in Marin have any public transit options to the current A’s stadium or proposed fremont site anyways.

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Dec 9, 2008 4:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don’t forget the ACE (although I think their schedule is limited to commute times).

Ray: "How fun is it to be up here playing in the Big Leagues?"
Gio: "It's *SUPER* fun!!!"

by Poppy on Dec 9, 2008 5:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's cute that you think AMTRAK is viable transportation from the North Bay

$60+ and 3hr+ ride? I think not. I’d stick to my car easily. You are, however, absolutely right about not caring about Marin fans. At best we head to the east bay and hop on BART, at worst we have an extra 45/60 minute drive both ways, but it’s not the end of the world.

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Dec 9, 2008 7:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The stadium would be about a mile and a quarter from the nearest 680 exit on a major street ...

big whoop … that’s about four times as far as it is from the 880 to the current stadium’s entrance … OMG!!! WTF!!!

And do you really think it’s that big of a deal to get on 880 for 4 miles? Really?

And the 87 doesn’t count … it’s just a slightly more convenient connecting branch for the folks taking the 101 … if the 87 counts than the 101 doesn’t.

I have been to San Jose … I used to be sleeping with a girl down there … good times … very enthusiastic … if only gas prices weren’t so high back then … anywho, neither here nor there, I also lived in the Bay Area almost all of my life, which, for some reason meant I was coerced into spending time in San Jose … So I believe you that Caltrain is awesome … but I do not live nor work on the peninsula so I have never taken it in my life. That being said, if you actually read what I wrote, I said that it would probably have good transit options for folks in the Silicon Valley. So, yeah, thanks for agreeing with me.

Amtrak is a decent option for a single individual coming from, say, Fairfield. It is not an option for families on less than upper, upper middle class incomes. It is also not much of an option for folks who do not live that close to an Amtrak station … which means anyone from virtually an place aside from Fairfield. I live in downtown Sacramento (2-3 miles from the station). Taking Amtrak, on top of a $45 round trip ticket would involve a $30 round trip cab ride … I can’t afford that.

1. Parking at BART is free. 2.) They do? Really? Data? (In an absolute since that is assuredly false, since there are something like 60% more people in the East Bay) 3.) I disagree. 4.) See point 3.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 10, 2008 1:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I love Downtown Sacramento!

Do you live Midtown, East Sac or in the nityy gritty Downtown? Ever go to the True Love Coffee House? Old Ironsides?

by jeffro on Dec 10, 2008 8:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm on the border of downtown and midtown ... 16th and N

And yes, yes I do …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 10, 2008 9:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

1) we shouldn’t be basing our ballpark location around how easy it is for people from Sacramento to get here. That is a long drive to the current stadium and even longer drive to the fremont site. It is not like a SJ site would be that much harder for you to get to than Fremont (I would argue easier b/c of Amtrak). It’s a non-unique argument against SJ. More importantly, Sacramento is so far away anyways I don’t see anybody bringing kids to a Fremont or a SJ game for a 7pm start and then driving 2 hours back home to get the kids in bed at midnight (so your family point falls away). Sacramento is not the base we should be concerned about in terms of filling up seats. It’s nice that you are hardcore and come to games but most of the regular night crowd is not from Sacramento.

2) The Fremont location on 880 is one of the worst traffic congestion points in the bay area.

3) free parking at BART does not help you b/c there is no bart station at the current A’s fremont site. There is zero chance of the “warm springs” site being used b/c of strong local nimbyism – upper middle class people living there will not let a stadium be built there. so there will be zero public transit options to the fremont site. so families will have no place to park for free like they currently do.

4) Alameda County 1.4 million, Contra Costa 1 million vs. SF+SM 1.5 mil + Santa Clara 1.7 million = more families on the penninsula and south bay than the east bay = easier for them to get to SJ than Fremont/oakland. (Additionally, SF/SM/SC all have wayyyy higher per capita incomes and more corporate headquarters = way more revenue in San Jose than fremont or oakland or sacramento or wherever you want the stadium to be.)

5) There are 4 freeways in SJ. 87 is a good access route to downtown for people coming from south san jose. Ergo traffic is more split up. A fremont site would force everyone on to the same freeway in the middle of rush hour. No thanks.

I just can’t believe you would support a car-only stadium like fremont. One of the best things about the current stadium is the great public transit access via the BART station. That’s one of the things I love most about the A’s. It would really hurt the experience of going to the game for me and the half of our fan base that takes public transit to get to games. More importantly, it would make it more difficult for us to get to games. You are a slave to the car. Maybe traffic isn’t as bad out in Sacramento but San Francisco is the second worst traffic area in the country. It’s important to provide public transit alternatives for stadiums here. A fremont site would turn us into another Anaheim coliseum or Chavez ravine – tons of people just sitting in traffic and everyone showing up late and leaving early to beat traffic.

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Dec 10, 2008 8:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Fremont is car only

Initially, the BART station closest would be far away, true but within a couple of years there will be a BART station about 1.25 miles away. A BART and 1.25 mile shuttle ride situation is exactly analogous to the current set up in San Francisco (New Montgomery Station to MUNI Light Rail).

That said, it would be silly to argue that San Jose Diridon wouldn’t be a better option from a public transit perspective. Both short and long term… eventually, that area of San Jose will be the most public transit oriented area in the area with virtually all “brands” of Bay Area transit having a station near by.

In the end, I don’t care if it is Fremont or San Jose as long as it is one of them (or Oakland)

by jeffro on Dec 10, 2008 9:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Can't argue with that last sentiment.

As long as they choose one of the 3 options currently on the table or another one in the Bay Area it’s all good. Sac would be the last choice I find remotely acceptable though it’s a distant choice compared to SJ, Fremont, Oakland.

by athletics68 on Dec 10, 2008 9:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

1.) You’re totally missing my point. I agree Sacramento is not a fan base they should be making decisions around. I am giving an example for how, even in a city that has Amtrak for someone who lives close to the station, Amtrak is not actually a very useful transit option. If that’s insufficient, Amtrak also only runs to San Jose a couple of times a day and it cuts off too early to return home from night games.

2.) That’s true … but they’ll have several years (and likely a lot of federal dollars) to deal with that. Regardless, every East Bay fan will have to go through there.

3.) I park for free in San Francisco too, without the benefit of a BART parking lot. I’m sure I can find a way in Fremont or San Jose, too.

4.) First, my mistake. There are only 45% more people in the East Bay than the South Bay. Second, San Jose is not easier to get to for most folks on the Peninsula and San Francisco because almost none of them will take transit anyway. Transit is important for a certain segment of the fan base that I happen to care a lot about, but it is practically inconsequential from the team’s standpoint. It only makes up about 10% of attendance and a 10% that will largely be priced out of a smaller stadium. Third, if you’ve actually read through my comments, I’m not a proponent of any plan, in particular. This may be a remote concept to many, but I’m actually just discussing issues without an underlying agenda. I’d love for the team to stay in Oakland, but I do not think that is realistic. There simply are no good sites left. It’s one of the downsides to being a real city. I think Fremont’s location is better because it is more centrally located and is much more convenient for current fans. As I do not stand to gain financially from the move, I care a lot more about current fans than supposed future fans. Now I know there are not enough current fans and understand that something needs to change to expand that fan base and am okay with that.

I’m a slave to the car? Really do you know me? I walk everywhere in Sacramento. Do you know the A’s fan base? It’s not half, it’s 10% of a typical game.

Like I said, I am not a partisan of any plan. If there were a good Oakland plan, I would likely support it. There isn’t, so, que sera sera … Every plan has strengths and weaknesses and I think you are greatly exaggerating the strengths of the San Jose site and the weaknesses of the Fremont site.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 10, 2008 10:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We are Both Wrong

On public transit figures:

18% of the fan base takes public transit to games currently, according to this recent article:
http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/localnews/ci_11017763

That is a sizable minority, albeit a minority, that would be screwed over by a Fremont coliseum.

It is not going to be that much harder for East bay fans to get to a SJ coliseum than a Fremont coliseum. It will be way harder for penninsula and south bay fans to get to a Fremont stadium than a SJ stadium. East bay fans are not the only A’s fans, them spending an extra 15 minutes in the car (distance from fremont to SJ) should not trump getting a good downtown coliseum site that has great public transit options.

Not to mention the fact that the current east bay fan base is unable to financially support the team, necessitating this move. Considering finances, the team would make even more money in downtown SJ than in fremont b/c it would be even closer and easier to access for the rich corporations of silicon valley and their upper middle class employees —> more revenue —> us keeping giambi/hudson/tejada/swisher/haren’s of the future instead of letting them go.

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Dec 10, 2008 11:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well 10% is the figure that Lew Wolfe has quoted in the past ...

And they would hardly be screwed over. The team is going to run shuttles from the closest BART station (Be that Fremont or Warm Springs).

Funny how traffic disappears when it’s inconvenient for you but is a huge deal when it’s not. It’s an extra 17 miles to go from Fremont to San Jose. That would be an extra 30 minutes, minimum for a 7:05 game.

Pricing out the current fan base isn’t one of my top priorities. If it’s one of yours, well, okay … I question your priorities, but, heck, they’re your priorities, you get to choose’em. For me, I’d rather the A’s not become the Giants … and I’d rather BB keeps up his wheeling and dealing, bringing in a ton of talent for overrated or overpriced players … of all of the players we’ve lost over the years, the only ones I would really have wanted back were Tejada and Hudson … Giambi, Mulder, Swisher, Damon, Foulke, etc, etc, etc … yeah, we’re much better off without them and while I’d love to still have Haren — the return from him was easily worth it.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 10, 2008 12:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm shocked,

shocked.

Colder than a well digger's ass

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 9, 2008 2:37 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Shock the flunky!

I blame Englishmajor.

by McFood on Dec 9, 2008 2:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

{whew!}

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 3:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

As am I.

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 4:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and …

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 4:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

according to this thread

you’ve already said everything that can be said. you could continue life by solely linking to previous conversations. amazing.

Save Rajai Davis

by oakinboston on Dec 9, 2008 4:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes. Yes, I could do that.

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 5:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 9, 2008 5:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

IOTM

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 5:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If I can see the stadium from my house

can I be the starting shortstop?

"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL

by oblique on Dec 9, 2008 2:50 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yes

But you can’t be Vice President.

"However, at Elias, I think they keep track of the amount of sunflower seeds spit in a dugout each night." - Brad Ziegler, 8/7/08

by doctorK on Dec 9, 2008 4:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He just wants to update his uniform.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 9, 2008 4:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Also.

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 4:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Being the starting shortstop Is a @#&* valuable thing. It’s @#&*$ golden. You don’t just give it away for nothing.

by Englishmajor on Dec 9, 2008 7:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Literally.

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2008 10:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

First of all

The quote you posted did not say anything about San Jose.

Second, this may be just a way of Wolf threatening Fremont to get their act together so we can get this show on the road.

Third, San Jose is technically Giants territory. Yes, this has been addressed above, but seriously! You all are assuming A LOT in order to get this changed.

Fourth, Being from Fremont, I don’t really understand what the problem is. The traffic has gotten significantly better since the construction is almost done. And if they move to the Warm Springs location they will be right next to BART, which has been the main issue surrounding this project. Now that issue is GONE!

Fifth, I hate channel 2/Fox… I never trust anything they say unless I see it from another source. They like to stir stuff up and create drama where there isn’t any. So yea… I am not taking this quote at face value.

"He's day-to-day," Geren said. "But aren't we all?" - 5/29/08

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Dec 9, 2008 3:53 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The San Jose reference

…in the video came from County Supervisor Scott Haggerty, who has long been one of the head cheerleaders of the project. He’s not some anonymous source. If he says there’s a problem, there’s a problem.

by vertig0 on Dec 9, 2008 4:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

KTVU has been reporting in the Bay Area since long before it

became and affiliate of Fox (and that is reflected only in its national and international feed). Lloyd LaCuesta has been reporting on KTVU since the days when the station was independent. As a reporter I don’t consider him to be more or less reliable than most other local reporters, TV, radio or print.

You’re right that San José was not mentioned. It also wouldn’t be surprising to see this being used to pressure Fremont. But the fact that Selig has publicly given the ok for Wolff to talk to other communities is interesting, since in the past he has been so adamant about the “territorial rights” — which by the way were invented in the early 1990’s to reassure the Giants and keep them from moving to Tampa…they didn’t exist before that. They’re a bit weird anyway. No other two MLB team market has to deal with such an absurd concept. The Chicago area actually has 3 MLB teams (Milwaukee is only an hour away), 2 NL (in the same division!) and one AL. The Bay Area is certainly big enough for an AL and NL team, plus other parts of N.Ca have fans of either or both teams as well.

The issues with the proposed new Fremont location include how to pay for it if it’s decoupled from the ballpark village plan. that’s a significant issue. There are other issues as well.

by OaklandSi on Dec 9, 2008 4:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I like San Jose a lot

Not really the city itself, but what it would do for the franchise. I think you’d see corporate sponsorships really secure the A’s as a much bigger budget team.

That being said, I still just find it hard to believe that the Giants would relent unless it was something ludicrous they got in return.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 9, 2008 8:02 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The thing is....

I doubt they get very much in return at all. Why should they? If it goes to a vote amoung the owners, they are going to vote their own pocketbook. I believe this is why Selig went public with his comments about other communities. He already has the support he needs to reassure Wolfe of the outcome and the financial stakes involved. The A’s are a net takers from the shared revenue pool. It’s going to be exceedingly difficult for the Giants to persuade the other owners to vote against their financial interests. The A’s in San Jose make emminent sense for the league as a whole.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Dec 9, 2008 10:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't mind San Jose...

Obviously, I’d like Fremont better, being a resident. But, I don’t see the logic in this being a pressure tactic, as the election went Wolff’s way and, as Vertig0 says, the EIR takes as long as it takes… that’s not an issue.

I just don’t see the Giants giving up their territorial rights in Santa Clara County without major money coming their way. Maybe the A’s are willing to pay the ransom. We’ll see.

Sacramento… no way. Vegas… no way. It’s Fremont or San Jose. 50/50, I guess.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Dec 10, 2008 12:20 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Money is the issue in Fremont

The primary reason they were building in Fremont was the stadium/residential development. Now that the residential is irrelevant Pacific Commons isn’t really a prime location anymore. Which is why Warm Springs came up in the first place as a backup.

by athletics68 on Dec 10, 2008 12:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

maybe...

but, residential always comes back. If they were to get their Pacific Commons plan approved and start building in phases… that residential approval would be worth multi-millions. Fremont is one of the few prime residential real estate markets left in the Bay Area.

That’s why I don’t think they’ll just walk away and pay the Giants’ ransom.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Dec 10, 2008 1:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure the Giants have much leverage here.

I’m also not sure the ballpark adds any more to the value of the residential development than it would to the downtown area in San Jose. It’s a big calculation….with lots of numbers and assumptions.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 10, 2008 1:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Giants don't have a leg to stand on

If Selig revokes the rights, which is within his power, it’s game over for the Giants. With baseball’s anti trust exemption there’s nothing the Giants could do to stop MLB. They arbitrarily granted the Giants the rights to San Jose in the early 90’s when they were trying to move to Santa Clara, and they can just as easily reverse the decision.

by athletics68 on Dec 10, 2008 8:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A legless giant (skink):

… for your viewing pleasure and derision.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 10, 2008 10:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

I’d much prefer SJ, being i’m from..SJ…

I realize baseball has the power to revoke the SFG territorial rights to the area, but do you guys REALLY think it would happen? That would absolutely demolish their fan base. I’m willing to bet, like the 49ers, a majority of their season ticket holders are from SJ/Santa Clara. Most of them being casual fans who would easily hop on a new team and stadium in their own backyard.

I don’t see the Giants ever allowing it, or baseball ever doing it. Hope i’m wrong.

by Dukererer on Dec 10, 2008 9:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hope we're not

I honestly don’t think it would hurt the Giants to the extent that you think it would. But if it does so be it. San Jose’s choice of resident teams shouldn’t be a the whim of a city 50 miles away.

by athletics68 on Dec 10, 2008 10:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And the Giants would become closest to all

of Alameda and Contra Costa county (for the most part). They’d pick up some market there (not as much as they’ll lose from SJ)

by ohmangoAs on Dec 10, 2008 2:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If the Giants suddenly moved to SJ, and the A's stayed in Oakland...

Do you think the A’s would lose Freemont fans to the Giants?

I originally asked the question thinking the answer was “No”. But now that I’ve asked it, I’m on the fence.

"I'm going to take a camera crew and march into Billy Beane's office and demand to know why instituting his newfangled cost-saving measures means that the run manufacturing plant had to get shut down." FJM

by Elvez on Dec 10, 2008 7:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

San Jose cool to tepidly optimistic

link

But Cortese, one of San Jose’s most vocal stadium boosters, contends he’s been hearing from team insiders about a possible shift south for several weeks. San Jose owns most of the land for a likely 14-acre stadium site near the Diridon rail station and has already prepared an environmental impact report on the site, something Fremont officials have yet to finish.

“Be prepared: There’s going to be another look at San Jose,” Cortese said he was told. “I wasn’t terribly surprised when I saw that come up. Obviously something must be going on.”

Krutko said that despite talking with the Wolffs regularly about their plans for a San Jose Earthquakes soccer stadium in the city, he hadn’t heard anything yet about baseball. Reed said the same thing, and so did Harry Mavrogenes, chief of the San Jose Redevelopment Agency.

Chuck Reed, San Jose’s mayor, has long had a reputation as something of a Blue Dog Democrat. Dave Cortese is Vice Mayor and was recently elected to the Santa Clara County Board of Supervisors. Cortese has long been a proponent of bringing the A’s to SJ. Krutko is the econ dev chief and will probably be the champion of the effort should it move forward. Lurking behind all of this is former mayor Tom McEnery, who still has major pull here with his downtown redev focus. McEnery’s Silicon Valley Sports & Entertainment owns the Sharks, runs HP Pavilion, and recently inked a deal to operate the Earthquakes’ new stadium. McEnery is a Reed advisor and has been caught up in what looks like improper lobbying efforts. He’s also a longtime friend of Lew Wolff and is probably the most influential cheerleader for bringing MLB to San Jose.

by vertig0 on Dec 10, 2008 11:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Good to see they're still open to it...

Because I’m starting to think Fremont is dead unless they pay off Catellus.

by athletics68 on Dec 11, 2008 8:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice find, vertig0

Where can I read up on some more San Jose background information (politician/investor relationships, proposals, etc.)?

by SanJoseA's on Dec 11, 2008 2:33 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Try the ballpark blog

ballpark blog, search for San Jose.

For inside politics info go to San Jose Inside.

by vertig0 on Dec 11, 2008 7:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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