AN Community Prospect List - #21
by Zonis on Dec 6, 2008 5:07 PM PST
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PrintSam Demel, RHP wins the #20 spot wih 31% of the vote.
AthleticsNation Top Prospect List:
- Trevor Cahill, RHP
- Brett Anderson, LHP
- Chris Carter, 3B/1B
- Aaron Cunningham, CF
- Gio Gonzalez, LHP
- Adrian Cardenas, SS/2B
- Sean Doolittle, 1B/RF
- James Simmons, RHP
- Vin Mazzaro, RHP
- Josh Donaldson, C
- Michel Inoa, RHP
- Jemile Weeks, 2B
- Henry Rodriguez, RHP
- Rashun Dixon, CF
- Fautino De Los Santos, RHP
- Arnold Leon, RHP
- Josh Outman, LHP
- Corey Brown, CF
- Brett Hunter, RHP
- Sam Demel, RHP
New Addition to the Candidates List: Jared Lansford, RHP
CANDIDATES:
Pitchers:
Tyson Ross, RHP
Andrew Carignan, RHP
Andrew Bailey, RHP
Carlos Hernandez, LHP
Jared Lansford, RHP
Infielders/Catchers:
Dusty Coleman, SS
Nino Leyja, SS
Jason Christian, SS
Eric Patterson, IF
Outfielders:
Matt Sulentic, OF
POSSIBLES:
Pitchers:
Craig Italiano, RHP
Jason Fernandez, RHP
Ryan Webb, RHP
Michael Madsen, RHP
Jamie Richmond, RHP
Anthony Capra, LHP
Jeff Gray, RHP
Travis Banwart, RHP
Ryan Doolittle, RHP
Daniel Thomas, RHP
Ricardo Penalba, RHP
Scott Hodsen, RHP
Scott Mitchinson, RHP
Infield/Catcher:
Petey Paramore, C
Landon Powell,C
Anthony Recker, C
Jeff Baisley, 3B
Cliff Pennington, SS
Gregorio Petit, SS
Justin Sellers, SS
Franklin Contreras, SS
Tommy Everidge, 1B
Outfield:
Jeremy Barfield, OF
Matt Spencer, OF/1B
Grant Desme, OF
Tyreace House, OF
Javier Herrera, OF
Danny Putnam, OF
Robin Rosario, OF
Jermaine Mitchell, OF
JD Pruit, OF
Chris Berroa, OF
Jose Crisostomo, OF
David Thomas, OF
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First!
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Christian
Although at this point it could be any of the three SS
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
Carignan for me, then young SSs
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
What's the argument for Carignan over Ross?
Ross is a higher draft pick who can actually start and throw strikes. His main drawbacks are a painful looking delivery and 2008 injury. Carignan seems like Franklyn German, Joe Valentine and Jesus Colome.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 6, 2008 5:21 PM PST up reply actions
I have Ross down, in my mind, as having a non-career derailed by injury
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Wasn't Ross a two-way star?
If he continually has arm problems, is there any way he could return to playing every as an outfielder?
No, he only pitched in College
played SS in HS, but thats out of the question now it looks like.
facepalm.jpg
That would help me think more highly of him
The low prices on name brands is already a plus.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Aren't those low low prices?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 6, 2008 5:37 PM PST up reply actions
i think ross will have a career similar to former giants OF mervin's benard.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
i don't know how to spell mervyn's :-(
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
But then he'd throw like Shannon Stewart
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 6, 2008 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
OK if not Ross then why not Hernandez?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 6, 2008 5:37 PM PST up reply actions
For me it's partly ignorance - I'm just not very familiar with him
But also he hasn’t pitched much or pitched at very high levels, whereas Carignan is much farther along (albeit with worrisome BB numbers).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm still struggling with how much to discount a guy who's a career minor league reliever
even compared to a guy like Italiano or Rodriguez who could be major league relievers but have lots of starting experience in the minors.
Speaking of which, I’d rather see Italiano on this list than Lansford or Bailey.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 6, 2008 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
None of those guys showed the ability to miss bats that Carignan has. 12.2 k/9 and 5.57 h/9, where none of the 3 flameouts are over 10 k/9 or under 7.5 h/9. He put up significantly better numbers in his age 21 seaon than all three guys at the same or higher level. The control problems are serious but so is the upside.
FWW, I also think the closer pedigree makes it more likely that he’ll be able to handle himself under pressure.
by NRC on Dec 6, 2008 6:04 PM PST up reply actions
Hmmm....valid point
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 6, 2008 6:38 PM PST up reply actions
missing bats
should the 6.5 career bb/9 also count?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
He misses bats...and targets!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
And Henry Rodriguez, whose numbers are essentially identical except that he HASN'T limited hits, doesn't?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
No because his numbers are not identical. They were compiled as 80% a starter.
I’m still struggling with how much to dock relievers for their stats but I’m pretty sure it’s not zero.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 6, 2008 8:13 PM PST up reply actions
yeah but the bottom line is you still rank henry rodriguez really high, and we're talking about carignan potentially being #21
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
True. I have a very high opinion of high K-rate starters, and a very low opinion
of relievers of all stripes. The fact that there have been some career minor league relievers making good recently is making me rethink this, but I’m not sure how much to do that. I’m pretty sure I’d raise the relievers before lowering the starters though.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 6, 2008 11:41 PM PST up reply actions
If that begs the question then "Why not Carignan?", I guess I'd still rather have
Ross, a potential starter or even Hernandez or a SS prospect with a sliver of a chance.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 6, 2008 11:46 PM PST up reply actions
Yes but his fielding in the minors and majors say that he isn't a valid Plan A at 2B. I don't
think the A’s wanted to re-sign Ellis but 1) Ellis came cheaper than they thought he would and 2) Patterson and the other options turned out to be far worse. If he’s just a LF, then he’s gonna have to hit a heckuva lot better than he has in the minors to justify a spot there.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 6, 2008 6:40 PM PST up reply actions
He's no surgeon with a glove but he's a good bench player.
I think with this system we’re kind of spoiled in that we have players in the twenty to thirty who are potential closers or guys with tools out the wahoo, but he deserves the chance. Maybe not with the A’s, since we’re stacked at 2B and OF.
A versatile bench player with some power and speed if a valuable thing to have.
Sure I don't hate the guy.
It’s just that I don’t think he’ll ever be an above average starting player. The others probably won’t either this low on the list, but at least they have a sliver of a chance.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 6, 2008 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
Well my school of thought is that
Basically everybody voted for Aaron Cunningham at #4 because there’s a really, really good chance that he’ll be an average-to-good player. There’s hardly a chance that he’ll burst out and start hitting 40 HR per year but there’s also a low chance that he’ll flame out and be completely worthless (at least no less than most other players).
But at this point in the list we’re getting to those guys that have a very small chance of being fantastic players but could very well flame out and be useless. Patterson, in my mind, has proven himself to have the abilities to be AT LEAST a very useful bench player. Of course he could flame out but so could Brandon Webb for all we know. But he’s got the tools to be a very valuable player coming off the bench in the late innings, and that’s why I voted for him.
The problem is that he's almost sure to never be more than that.
That makes him pretty much free talent like Rajai Davs or Marco Scutaro. I feel better having him at Sacramento in case Ellis goes down with an injury but I’d never plan to have him on the roster if I had a choice. He isn’t good enough to start and not versatile enough to be a utility guy.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 6, 2008 9:12 PM PST up reply actions
I just want to say
Thanks Zonis, for running this. It’s been great, and just picking the next poll members and keeping formatting consistent must be a lot of work. Blez should pay you. Haha.
+1
Thanks for doing this Zonis- it’s been interesting, and I think all the discussions have served to shed plenty of light on the prospects in the A’s system.
by still bills kingdom on Dec 6, 2008 6:30 PM PST up reply actions
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!
{sends Blez his monthly check for the privilege of posting}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Turns out I'm the same blood type as his wife
Blez has me donating a pint a month to a blood bank in her name!
The monster at the end of this blog.
He has me donating something else
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Dec 7, 2008 1:10 AM PST up reply actions
Went with the Golden Bear
Ross is a lottery ticket, but he showed good polish this season and he has very strong stuff on his side. If his arm can stay attached to his shoulder, he could potentially be the A’s #3 starter as soon as 2011. He, David Cooper and Josh Satin were the core of the best Cal team in many moons.
After him, I will (well, would— Carignan’s going to win this poll) go Carignan, Hernandez, and then probably Petit, who’s become weirdly underrated at this point. Rest of the top 30 in some order: Pennington, Powell, Leyja, Ronny Morla, Spencer and Italiano.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Wait, that can't be right
I like Christian more than Leyja. Huh. I guess Spencer gets the axe then— too inconsistent.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I agree on both Christain and Hernandez
Why is it a starting pitcher with two years of pro ball experience and an era of 2.69 can’t get any love?
It is not like he has been lucky: 28 runs, 26 ER. A HR rate of only 0.10 with a K/9 of 8.59.
PT, you need to make the case for Carlos Hernandez. While we have reached the area in which anyone could be place # 22, but Hernandez should get points for his position (SP) and his performance.
Hernandez
I’ll freely admit I don’t know much about Hernandez but a low draft pick with fringy stuff and success at lower levels doesn’t automatically equal strong prospect status. I too would be interested in hearing a case for him to try and change my mind.
I wouldn't mind a Petit tester, since he's been mentioned by a number of people as their #2
choice to be the starting SS in 2009 after Furcal.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 6, 2008 11:43 PM PST up reply actions
i’m voting ross and hoping the a’s change his delivery before his arm is ruined.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
I voted Ross but have no expectations that they'll do that. I'm just hoping he'll stay healthy
enough to contribute enough before the big injury.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 6, 2008 11:44 PM PST up reply actions
Jason Christian
with Ross, Patterson, Leyja, Lansford, Bailey, and Paramore to follow. I took another look at Petey Paramore’s stats and they weren’t as good as I had remembered. He basically compiled good numbers in Rookie ball—not very impressive, but I still like him in the top 30.
Paramore's pro stats weren't much
but, speaking heresy or otherwise, to me 3 years of D-I ball in a major conference are worth more than a much smaller number of pro at-bats at the end of a long season. Obviously you have to discount for the metal bat and ASU’s hitter’s paradise, but his college line is still solid from a defense-first catcher.
In Paramore’s specific case, he was hurting for a lot of the season. He pulled a hammy badly toward the end of the college season and was hobbling around for the next few months.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I dont know how much his hammy injury hurt his hitting, but it damn sure hurt his running
The one time I saw him he was dreadfully slow.
by thejd44 on Dec 7, 2008 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
From watching him in the CWS,
he was having trouble even getting around the bases at more than a jog. There was no chance of him scoring from second on any single, even with 2 outs.
I can’t even imagine how he gritted through it behind the plate. He must have been in agony by the end of every inning.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I felt it was time for one of the shortstops
The one I picked was Christian.
I’d buy arguments for Ross, Carignan and Hernandez at this point too. All kind of interchangeable to me. I’d take Lejya as my next shortstop, but I don’t know where I’d slot him among the Petit/Bailey/Lansford/Powell group that I think follows.
RagingHarden: Yeah if you get 20 starts out of me I'll be shocked. Like, I'll wreck my drawers.
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