Situational Awareness: A quick look at the A's roster flexibility over the next 4 years
This starts with a simple question: Can the A’s afford to keep Matt Holliday beyond 2009?
What follows is a detailed breakdown of the financial commitments and organizational depth of the Oakland A’s over the next 5 years. This involves a bit of educated guesswork in places but wherever dollar figures are involved my rule o’ thumb was to budget high and hope to spend less. And just in case I’ve bid low on anyone I round up on the overall budget prior to adding Holliday’s potential dollar figure. For the purpose of this exercise I’m placing Holliday’s contract at 6 years/$135 million starting in 2010. The money is evenly spread out over the length of the contract at $22.5 million annual. I don’t think that is what it’ll take to actually sign Holliday but again, I’m budgeting high and hoping to spend less.
I’ve also tried to factor the A’s budget based on current revenues and have not factored in a potential bump due to a new stadium or local TV contract. In 2007 the A’s spent between $83-85 million on player salaries and signing bonuses for their entire organization, I am basing my 2009-2013 projections on the high end of that figure so all of the following is based on an $85 million budget. Because of the economic downturn and the desire to see the A’s continue to invest in amateur talent both in the draft and abroad I’ve set a soft ceiling on the big league payroll at $75 million. I can go beyond that figure but I better have a damn good reason for cutting into my amateur budget.
One writer’s quirk you should be aware of. For various reasons I’ve decided that the yearly roster breakdowns will be based on who I think will be on the Opening Day roster. Take Aaron Cunningham for example. He has no dollar figure assigned to him in 2009 even though it is likely he’ll spend time in Oakland during the year. I believe he’ll spend the first couple months of the 2009 season playing full time in AAA, therefore he doesn’t factor into that year’s budget. I am expecting him to fill a role on the 2010 Opening Day roster and have essentially started counting his service time then. A player’s actual service time plays a big part in this breakdown. As you’ll see in 2010 the various starts and stops in the careers of certain players could make them eligible for arbitration under Super-2 status instead of after the normal 3 years.
Furthermore, take care when looking at the names in the Excel sheet I’m (hopefully) including. An italicized name is a player that won’t be on the 2009 opening Day roster but will eventually make the club. Keep in mind that the particular names aren’t meant as absolutes, I don’t know with complete certainty which prospects will blossom and which will bust. So when I pencil Anderson into the 2010 roster what I really mean is that 1 of the A’s many SP prospects will be ready for the big league rotation in 2010. I’m just using the most attractive name because it makes the picture look prettier.
Another thing to keep in mind is the CBA. The current deal runs through 2011 and it sets the league minimum salary at $400 K in 2009 and 2010, with 2011 seeing a cost of living adjustment that can’t drop below $400 K but will probably end up higher than the current figure. I’m guessing the 2011 minimum salary to be $410 K. I don’t know what will happen when the current CBA expires but I doubt it will change the financial structure so dramatically that any contracts teams carry into the new deal will be a problem.
| Player | 2009 | 2010 | 2011 | 2012 | 2013 |
| Holliday | 13.5 | 22.5 | 22.5 | 22.5 | 22.5 |
| Furcal | 12 | 12 | 12 | 12.0/3.0 | |
| Crosby | 3.25 | XXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXX |
| Chavez | 11 | 12 | 12.5/3.0 | XXXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXX |
| Ellis | 5 | 5.5 | 6.0/0.5 | XXXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXX |
| Cardenas | 0.41 | 0.42 | 0.43 | ||
| Cust | 3 | Arb-2 (5) | Arb-3 (8.5) | XXXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXX |
| Doolittle | 0.41 | 0.42 | 0.43 | ||
| Bowen | 0.7 | Arb-3 (.9) | XXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXX |
| C2 | 0.41 | 0.415 | 0.425 | ||
| Suzuki | 0.415 | 0.425 | Arb-1 (3.5) | Arb-2 | Arb-3 |
| Sweeney | 0.415 | 0.425 | Arb-1 (3.5) | Arb-2 | Arb-3 |
| Buck | 0.415 | 0.425 | Arb-1 (3.5) | Arb-2 | Arb-3 |
| Barton | 0.405 | 0.415 | Arb-1 (3.5) | Arb-2 | Arb-3 |
| Davis | 0.405 | Super-2 | XXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXX |
| Cunningham | 0.405 | 0.415 | 0.425 | Arb-1 | |
| Bench | 0.405 | 0.405 | 0.41 | 0.41 | 0.41 |
| Bench | 0.405 | 0.405 | 0.41 | 0.41 | 0.41 |
| Duke | 5 | XXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXXX |
| Anderson | 0.405 | 0.415 | 0.425 | Arb-1 | |
| Eveland | 0.415 | Super-2 (3) | Arb-2 (5.5) | Arb-3 | Arb-4 |
| Cahill | 0.41 | 0.42 | 0.43 | ||
| Gallagher | 0.405 | 0.415 | 0.425 | Arb-1 | Arb-2 |
| Braden | 0.405 | 0.415 | 0.425 | Arb-1 | Arb-2 |
| G. Gonzalez | 0.405 | 0.415 | 0.425 | Arb-1 | Arb-2 |
| Devine | 0.415 | Super-2 (3) | Arb-2 (5.5) | Arb-3 | Arb-4 |
| Ziegler | 0.405 | 0.415 | 0.425 | Arb-1 | Arb-2 |
| Blevins | 0.405 | 0.415 | 0.425 | Arb-1 | Arb-2 |
| Brown | 0.415 | Super-2 | XXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXX |
| Carignan | 0.405 | 0.415 | 0.425 | Arb-1 | |
| Schroder | 0.415 | 0.425 | Arb-1 | XXXXXXXXXXX | XXXXXXXXXX |
| Demel | 0.405 | 0.415 | 0.425 | ||
| Casilla | 0.415 | 0.425 | Arb-1 (1.5) | Arb-2 | Arb-3 |
| RP | 0.405 | 0.405 | 0.41 | 0.41 | 0.41 |
| TOTAL $$$ | 60.82 | 47 | 71 | 90 |
2009
We start with 2009 because really, where else could we begin? Beane’s surprising trade for Matt Holliday actually got ESPN to notice the team for almost a full news cycle and that in itself is a major accomplishment. The numbers pretty much speak for themselves: I have Crosby listed with a $3.25 million price tag because I anticipate the A’s trading him and eating that much of his contract in order to land a decent prospect. As for Furcal, I’m taking a leap of faith that the A’s will land him. I know some people might think that he could be had for less than $12 million annual but I disagree. Furcal’s previous contract paid him 9/13/13 million with a $4 million kicker in January ’09, an average of $13 million a season. So $12 million a year is already a cut from his previous contract. We’ve seen his potential suitors (and the A’s competition) start to go in other directions and that is in large part because no one has been willing to go beyond a 3 year deal. I think the weakening market will allow the A’s to sign Furcal to a 3 year guarantee with an optional/vesting 4th year. The 2012 buy-out of $3 million allows Furcal to save face by boosting the 3 year average to $13 million… equal to his previous contract with the Dodgers. The projected payroll with Furcal is approximately $61 million, which means there’s still sufficient room to make another move or two to better the roster in 2009. There are several options that we could discuss, but after losing Smith’s 190+ IP I would hope that the A’s could sign/trade for a veteran arm to provide stability in the rotation.
Right now it appears that the top name on the list of possible targets is Randy Johnson. The Big Unit is 5 wins away from 300 (which means free media exposure as he closes in on the milestone, media exposure which could lead to an attendance boost and increased merchandise sells) and he pitched 184 innings last year, that’s more big league innings than any other pitcher on the current roster. (Dana Eveland threw 189 innings between the majors and AAA.) Johnson walked 44 and struck out 173 in 30 starts and his average fastball velocity was a shade less than 91 MPH so it looks like he’s got enough left in the tank for one more year. There is some concern about switching from the NL to the AL but that should be mitigated by pitching his home games in the Coliseum instead of the second best hitter’s park in the NL. Johnson is probably looking for a 1 year deal somewhere between $6-8 million. I’m basing that on the $10.5 million he made in 2008 and the $4 million he’s owed by Arizona as part of his original signing bonus. Once again I’ll budget high and call it a 1 year/$ 8 million deal. That put’s the A’s 2009 projected payroll at $69 million.
You’ll notice that I didn’t put Johnson’s name and salary on the spreadsheet. I figured I was already taking a chance by adding Furcal and I didn’t see the point in manipulating the roster over pure speculation. If Johnson’s agent is to be believed that are just under a dozen teams that have asked about the future Hall of Famer. If the A’s did land Johnson either Braden or Gio would get bumped from the rotation. If it’s Braden he probably ends up in the unnamed RP slot, serving as the 2nd lefty and long reliever. If Gio gets bumped I imagine he’ll go down to pitch in Sacramento’s rotation. The two bench spots will probably contain some combination of Joe Dillon, Jeff Baisley, Gregorio Petit, Cliff Pennington and Jack Hannahan. Their Spring Training performances plus Eric Chavez’s health will go a long way to deciding those spots.
There is another player that I haven’t mentioned, a free agent who could come into play even after all these other moves take place. The market for Adam Dunn has withered on the vine as it were and there are whispers that he might not make more than the $13 million he made last year. In fact, I saw one article talk about a 3 year/$36 million contract. I’m not sure how legit those numbers are, but let’s assume for the moment that they’re in the ballpark. I propose a 3 year/$36 million deal with an optional 4th year at $12 million or a $3 million buy-out OR a player opt-out with no cash. That way Dunn would be able to re-enter a revitalized FA market after his age 31 season and allow him to cash in for a bigger contract. If the A’s exercise the buy-out Dunn will have made an average of $13 million a year over the length of his stay in Oakland, the exact same figure he made in 2008. I really believe that face saving gesture adds incentive to sign with the A’s. Stick Dunn a 1B to limit the damage his glove would do and send Barton back to AAA to work on his 3B skills. If Travis Buck gets hurt or can’t hit then option 2 would be to send him down and move Dunn to LF, sending Holliday to RF and Barton back to 1B. We really want Buck healthy and productive in 2009!
Adding Dunn would boost the 2009 payroll to approximately $82 million. Now, keep in mind I’ve padded every salary that doesn’t have a specific number listed in Cots database. I could easily be a couple million over the actual hard figure and maybe we’ll get lucky and the A’s will be able to get someone to take all of Crosby’s salary, but either way we are under the original $85 million budget I allowed for myself. Remember, that $85 million is intended to cover both the big league payroll AND signing bonuses for the draft and the international market so I have severally hindered the A’s ability to sign amateur talent in 2009. There should be enough cash left over to pay slot in the draft but I’m not sure how much will be available to go over-slot. No way would there be enough to sign another Inoa, over even another Brett Hunter. Still, I'd like to see someone put together a projected W/L record for this roster!
2010
I have deliberately left Holliday’s roster spot open, because we still haven’t determined if the A’s can afford to keep him beyond 2009. For the purpose of this discussion I’ve replaced Duke with Brett Anderson, who actually made his big league debut at the end of 2009, thus the slight bump pay bump above league minimum. I’ve also decided that Randy Johnson bumped Dallas Braden from the 2009 rotation while Gio was busy establishing himself as the A’s #5 SP. (In case you were wondering, my 2009 rotation went Duke/Johnson/Eveland/Gallagher/Gonzalez.) I’m going to slip Braden back into the rotation but you could swap him with one of the A’s several upper level pitching prospects. There’s almost no difference in the financial cost between Braden and a pure rookie, maybe $20 K at most.
Rajai Davis, Dana Eveland, Joey Devine and Andrew Brown could all qualify for Super-2 arbitration in 2010. Since I’m budgeting high, I’m going to assume that all 4 players will be arbitration eligible. As I show in the spreadsheet, I think Davis and Brown can be replaced by more cost efficient players who have the potential to be even more effective performers. Eveland could emerge as a valuable mid-rotation SP and I’m figuring on Devine winning the Closer job in 2009, his Save total will boost his arby salary. $3 million for each would not be setting a new record for first time arbitration eligible players but the figures would be in the upper tier for their respective categories. What the Hell, we might as well figure as if these guys are going to be good in 2009!
So assuming I’m close with my arbitration figures the 2010 budget sits at approximately $47.25 million. That’s without Dunn and without Holliday. Adding Dunn raises the figure to $59 million and assuming a $22.5 million annual salary for Holliday (remember, we’re budgeting high and hoping to spend less) that would put the A’s 2010 player payroll at $81.5 million. We are once again under the $85 million hard cap but have limited the A’s ability to add amateur talent.
2011
This is the key year in determining whether or not the A’s can afford Holliday beyond 2009. I’ve kept Barton on the spreadsheet because I refuse to jinx things by adding Dunn’s name. As things stand now the A’s have 9 players on the current roster that’ll be arbitration eligible in 2011 if Beane doesn’t sign them to long term deals earlier in their careers. The numbers in parenthesis represent a rough estimate of what their arbitration salaries could be. Chavez and Ellis both have team options for 2011 and there continued presence on the roster will be determined by a combination of their performance from 2009-2010 and the development of certain prospects, most notably (and in this case specifically) Adrian Cardenas. It would help things considerably if Cardenas would live up to his hype and be ready to replace either of the A’s infield stalwarts by 2011.
I’ve already decided that Chris Schroder isn’t going to get arbitration; I’ve replaced him with the concept of Sam Demel. Santiago Casilla is a tougher call. If the A’s have more bullpen arms ready on the farm then I’m comfortable with shipping him off elsewhere rather than paying him $1.5 million, but since I don’t want to rely so heavily on prospect projections this far out I’m going to hold onto Casilla for now. (I’m very confident the A’s can find 1 cheap bullpen arm for 2011, I’m not as certain about them finding 2 bullpen arms in the same timeframe.) I’ve also added Trevor Cahill to the rotation. He’ll either take the place of Braden or he’ll replace Eveland if his cost begins to exceed his production. Or if I need the $5 million to pay for Holliday!
The 2011 payroll, based on the current roster (i.e. no Dunn or Holliday) sits at approximately $71 million. That’s including roughly $500 K for my back-up Catcher, whoever that may be. If Dunn gets signed I’ve traded Barton after he failed to convert to 3B during the 2009 season. That kicks in an extra $8.5 million into the kitty, meaning the payroll sans Holliday sits at $79.5 million. Holliday’s $22.5 million annual would bump that to $102 million and we still haven’t signed a draft pick. Does this kill the dream to keep Holliday?
Not exactly.
There are several options to shoehorn this under budget. The first way is the A’s could up their payroll! Aside from that, the A’s have options. Chris Carter or Sean Doolittle could/should be ready by 2011. Let’s assume its Doolittle for now. Trade Cust, move Dunn to DH and lave the rookie play 1B. If Cardenas is for real he could be ready to replace Ellis. Those two moves knock $14 million off the 2011 payroll. If Cardenas converts to 3B he could let the A’s buy-out Chavez’s last year for $9 million in savings. The A’s can save $1.5 million if they produce two bullpen arms in 2011 and trade Casilla. Like I mentioned before, Cahill could replace Eveland and save the A’s $5 million. It’s not so much that I’m making assumptions in 2011 as I’m recognizing available options.
2012
Things have settled down again in 2012. Chavez and Ellis are almost certainly off the books and have moved on to not so green & gold pastures while Furcal and Dunn are in an option year… theoretically! The A’s would have between 10-12 arbitration eligible cases that would probably cost up to $40 million. Dunn, Furcal and Holliday would cost $46.5. Figure another $3.5-4 million to round out the rest of the roster and you’re looking at a round number $90 million payroll. That figure could be easily trimmed by $5-10 million or the owners could have raised the overall budget after 4 years!
Conclusion
Can the A’s afford to keep Matt Holliday beyond the 2009 season? The answer appears to be “Yes”. The A’s farm system would need to produce 2-3 bullpen arms, 2 SP, 1 starting caliber 2B/3B, 1 1B/DH and 1 4th outfielder over the next 3 years for my proposal to work. Let me put it this way… if the A’s can’t produce that amount of homegrown talent within the allotted time then things have gone seriously wrong within the organization and the team’s screwed regardless of Matt Holliday’s presence. Adding Dunn to the equation adds protection to the line-up should Furcal’s back turn to clay; the A’s would be able to carry a light hitting replacement SS as long as Dunn, Holliday and Cust were pounding the snot out of the ball. The biggest downside is the A’s would have cut their amateur spending to roughly half of what they spent this last year.
Will all this happen? I don’t know.
The cash and young talent necessary to supplement a significant investment like Holliday seem to be available. I don't think there's a better, available player to invest that kind of money in than Matt Holliday. I'd like to see this happen, how about you AN?
25 recs |
130 comments
Comments
Awesome post
Regarding Holiday, I really want to see what he does in Oakland before I even think about an extension. I also want to see how our other OF prospects stack up this year as well.
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Dec 5, 2008 7:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Fair points
I just wanted to see if the math worked.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 8:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
very interesting and recommended
I didn’t see Chris Carter’s name anywhere on the grid. Was that an oversight or do you anticipate his being traded in the near future?
by OaklandSi on Dec 5, 2008 7:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
He's not on the grid
Remember, the rookie names are meant to be concept players. So if it’s not Doolittle playing 1B in 2011 it could be Carter. If neither player pans out then that kinda sucks.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 8:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ok, I was just wondering since Carter might also be projected
as a DH, and I didn’t see anyone else besides Cust mentioned there.
(I personally don’t like to project young players as DH since they really should be able to play in the field at least sometimes.)
by OaklandSi on Dec 5, 2008 8:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I hear ya
That’s part of the reason BA ranked Carter lower than a lot of folks expected.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 8:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have faith that Carter will find a home in the field
While it probably won’t be at third (though one can only dream), reports I have seen seemed to indicate that for a giant he runs well and has a good arm, so rightfield in addition to first seems plausible.
Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom
by designatedforassignment on Dec 5, 2008 11:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You did alot of work
I do think Holiday pay of 22.5 million is over slightly and furcal’s 12 million is over slightly too. I see Holiday at the 18 million a year and with the giants out of the bidding Furcal probably gets a 3 year deal with a 4th option around 10 to 12. His 4/48 will not happen. What I am factoring in is the current economy which will take the 2 – 3 years to fix. Next years contract amounts will go down as will Holiday’s stats being away from colorado.
by Arcman on Dec 5, 2008 7:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
You could be right
Like I said, budget high and hope to spend less. It works a Hell of a lot better then doing the opposite when making making an argument!
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 8:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't work for the government, do you?
Or, for that matter, a major corporation?
it is not possible to strategize while the ball is coming towards you
by eastcoasta'sfan on Dec 5, 2008 9:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If he worked for the government, wouldn't that be
“budget high and hope to spend even more”?
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Dec 5, 2008 9:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or pay little attention to budgeting and spend whatever you're asked
After all, it isn’t your money
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Dec 5, 2008 10:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oh, spare me
Unless you’re a significant shareholder drawing up a budget for a for-profit enterprise, that ain’t “your money” either.
I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Dec 5, 2008 12:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously?
I, as you probably already know, am a lawyer. That means that although I don’t have a stake in the company’s profits, all partners do. My work is for partners, therefore they care, therefore I care.
A federal employee lawyer, on the other hand, is working under a supervisor who is working under a supervisor (wash, rinse, repeat a few times) but at no level does anyone have any stake. Let’s just say settlement decisions made by federal attorneys look nothing like those made in private practice (and I say that having witnessed both types).
But sure, otherwise I’d be happy to spare you.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Dec 5, 2008 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
virtually none of those specifics have anything to do with your original rispote
I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Dec 5, 2008 2:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That the government isn't cost conscious because it isn't their money they're playing with?
I’m surprised you don’t see the relevance.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Dec 5, 2008 2:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm following Nevermoor
And I think he’s right
by ohmangoAs on Dec 5, 2008 6:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I do work for the government
But I actually work so I understand budgets.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad you posted this. I don't think AN is the place for cheap shots at other people's
jobs.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 5, 2008 5:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hell, I take cheap shots at my job all the time!
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 5:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure but we're not paying you here
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 5, 2008 7:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday will be under 22.5M I will put money on it.
Don’t care about the years; however, the market for overpaying OF’s is drying up with the financial climate.
Burrell might have to sign 1yr deal… Dunn would’ve gotten 15M/yr, now probably only 8… and this is happening across the league with teams less willing to commit themselves for anyone outside the cream of the crop. (Texeira, CC, Burnett)
BB saw this coming and stockpiled cash the last 1+ years…
The Stockton Ports pitching staff is better than the Orioles.
by gdub171 on Dec 5, 2008 8:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Manny's desires were ridiculous to begin with
No way he was going to get what he was looking for initially, regardless of economic climate.
I think Burrell will still get a multiyear deal. Maybe something along the lines of 2/22, but still multiyear.
Manny accepting arbitration will be HILARIOUS, even if its bloody unlikely.
Jon Garland, pleasepleaseplease accept arbitration. Your mad iNNiNgZ eAtEr sKiLLz will be greater exemplified in next year's free agent class. kthxbai.
by Blicks on Dec 5, 2008 8:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless Holliday takes less years/more money
which could see him getting 22.5MM/yr.
It will depend on what Teixeira gets this offseason, since he’s the only “full-package”, all around FA on the market this year, and I don’t think there are any besides Holliday next year.
Jon Garland, pleasepleaseplease accept arbitration. Your mad iNNiNgZ eAtEr sKiLLz will be greater exemplified in next year's free agent class. kthxbai.
by Blicks on Dec 5, 2008 8:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Holliday will sign for less than Texeira.
Tex has hit in 3 different ballparks in both leagues, with GG defense. He is a much greater lineup presence than Holliday.
They're called RUNS for a reason.
by connie mack on Dec 5, 2008 9:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was just saying that Teixeira will set the market for Holliday.
Holliday will get less than Teixeira, but he’ll get more than the Dunn/Burrell/Abreu camp.
Teixeira is the most similar player to Holliday who will be on the FA market this year/next year. If Teixeira gets X, I’ll say Holliday gets X – 20-30MM.
And, Holliday’s a really good defender in the corners. The fact that he hasn’t won a GG means nothing.
Jon Garland, pleasepleaseplease accept arbitration. Your mad iNNiNgZ eAtEr sKiLLz will be greater exemplified in next year's free agent class. kthxbai.
by Blicks on Dec 5, 2008 9:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Furcal outcome may tell us something about The Market,
… and whether The Economy will affect new offers. Very High-paid People (VHPs) have a special vulnerability to bad times. Just ask Rick Waggoner, and (lest you think he’s unique) others like new law grads and MBAs who signed at-will deals for waaay over what the recession market will bear, and are now on the street.
This economy will exert downward pressure on both the number of teams interested in marginal improvements for big bucks, and on how big the bucks will be. We may be on the cusP of a buyers’ market, with very different value dynamics. It is a good time to have some xs dough to spend, as the A’s do.
If Billy can land Furcal at less than what the Sellers’ Market valuation suggests ($10-12M/, as grover suggests) then we may see other bargains emerge. Last year’s deals will look verry rich if that happens.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Dec 5, 2008 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
WE'RE ALL GONNA DYNAMIC!!!
I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Dec 5, 2008 12:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been thinking that the holdup with Furcal
is a guaranteed fourth year, which I doubt the A’s want to give…
by OaklandSi on Dec 5, 2008 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually a GG does
The Giants and other teams were willing to pay Zito so much in part because he was a Cy Young winner in the past. Agents use awards to increase the value of their clients all the time.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Dec 5, 2008 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It works both ways tho
The shitty economy is going to negatively effect revenues as well so even if the dollar figure are high, it’s my that the A’s Ability to pay them declines proportionally
Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom
by designatedforassignment on Dec 5, 2008 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
god the whole commenting from your phone leads to stupid typos
should have read… It’s likely that
Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom
by designatedforassignment on Dec 5, 2008 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice
Regarding 2011, it seems like regardless of what the A’s do with Dunn and Holliday, there’s a good chance that Cust won’t be (and perhaps shouldn’t be) on the roster. He’ll be 32 and he’s got that ‘old man’ skill set that tends to decline quickly – I just don’t see how he could possibly be worth keeping at the $8 million you’ve projected. If Dunn is on the roster, then I expect it’s a no-brainer to let Cust go, move Dunn to DH, and find someone to play first. If Dunn isn’t on the roster, I think it still makes sense to let Cust go given his expected cost/performance and just find the next Jack Cust if the A’s don’t already have better options at that point.
"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball
by JLeverenz on Dec 5, 2008 8:00 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
5 years in baseball is like 20 years in real time
Take a look and almost every team has a bout atleast a 50% turn over in 5 years. Many teams are lucky to have 2 players from the starting 9. Look at the A’s for next year. Ellis and Chavez with a whole new bullpen and starting five. Even the giants are all new players.
by Arcman on Dec 5, 2008 8:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
While that's generally true . . .
. . . it doesn’t have to be, and it’s not really relevant to the analysis. The roster projection seems feasible to me, as the players who stay are all young enough that they could reasonably expected to do so. But, more to the point, the projection is a baseline; moves can and will be made, and presumably they would be made to improve the team.
it is not possible to strategize while the ball is coming towards you
by eastcoasta'sfan on Dec 5, 2008 9:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree on Cust
Rather than sign Dunn for a couple years at 12 million or whatever, I’d rather we use that money to extend Cust now to a 5 year $25 to $30 million contract. I think Cust would take it, and the A’s could use him in the field for a couple more years and then drop him into the DH spot. I think the gain from Cust to Dunn is negligible, especially with a couple hitters in the lineup around Cust.
They're called RUNS for a reason.
by connie mack on Dec 5, 2008 9:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm actually surprised by how true this is
The difference in raw numbers evaporates in OPS+
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Dec 5, 2008 10:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There might not be much gain from Dunn to Cust
But Dunn + Cust is even better!
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In a vacuum, yes, but as Danny posted, if one has to play the field, that may be 20 runs
below average and if paying them compromises the team’s ability to pursue over slot draftees and international free agents, that lessens the benefit too. In an extreme case if the choice is Dunn plus Cust minus two wins or Dunn/Cust plus Barton plus Robin Rosario II, I think I’d take the latter.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 5, 2008 5:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cust at DH, Dunn at 1B
Dunn the 1B shouldn’t cost the A’s 2 wins with his glove. Stick him in the OF and you might be close.
I still think Barton has the potential to be an above-average 1B, but I’m not interested in potential so much if I’ve got Randy and Holliday for 1 year guaranteed. I want production and I want it now. I think, and I’m sure you’ll probably agree, that Dunn will outperform Barton in 2009.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 5:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
also, that year of Barton in AAA can be used to refine his 3B skills.
by mikev on Dec 5, 2008 6:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
{shakes head}
{gets run over by bandwagon}
{cries}
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Dec 5, 2008 6:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How about it puts a hold on his service time so we have him
during his prime.
by OldhamA on Dec 8, 2008 5:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not really a question of Dunn vs Cust
It’s not even a question about whether Cust is a hitter that helps the team – clearly he is. The question is, by the time 2011 rolls around and Jack Cust is 32 years old, will he be a good enough hitter to give the A’s $5-8 million worth (your proposed signing fee and grover’s projected arbitration figure) of production? I think it’s unlikely, but even if the answer is ‘yes’ it’s just as likely that by that time there will be someone from the minors who can do the same things for $410K.
Just to be clear, I’m not advocating unilaterally getting rid of Cust after 2010; but given the premise of what grover wrote, 2011 is going to be an important year salary-wise and Cust would be seem to be expendable at that point both in terms of talent and salary.
"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball
by JLeverenz on Dec 5, 2008 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this.
Dunn is only a good signing if he can play beyond Cust’s useful life or if Holliday is unsignable.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 5, 2008 5:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
nice post!
The Maharg makes me look like an idiot.
by carp on Dec 5, 2008 8:00 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
this.
but not that nor the other thing.
Save Rajai Davis
by oakinboston on Dec 5, 2008 8:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well done, and very informative. One thing...
Remember, that $85 million is intended to cover both the big league payroll AND signing bonuses for the draft and the international market so I have severally hindered the A’s ability to sign amateur talent in 2009. There should be enough cash left over to pay slot in the draft but I’m not sure how much will be available to go over-slot. No way would there be enough to sign another Inoa, over even another Brett Hunter.
If that is the case, I REALLY don’t want the A’s to target Dunn. I’d say keep payroll under 75MM, if 85MM is the hard cap for both big league and draft.
Staying active in the draft and international markets is crucial, especially since the A’s will still be a small-market team with a relatively small-mid payroll.
Jon Garland, pleasepleaseplease accept arbitration. Your mad iNNiNgZ eAtEr sKiLLz will be greater exemplified in next year's free agent class. kthxbai.
by Blicks on Dec 5, 2008 8:56 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I understand that argument in the long term but short term
a line-up featuring Furcal, Holliday, Dunn, Cust and the rest is going to score some runs. Another thing to consider is that I’ve suggested trading guys like Barton, Eveland and even Cust who could help supplement the draft by bringing in more prospects.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How about at "Barton fails to transition to 3B"?
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Dec 5, 2008 10:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Then the A's would have really messed up
From Pujols comparisons (remember when…) to nothing would be pretty awful for the A’s development department.
by rightbackin on Dec 5, 2008 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Shit happens
and, I mean, it’s not like the Mulder trade worked out poorly.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 6, 2008 12:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's put it this way.
IF you have a player who can play 3B, you slot him in there. His bat is much more valuable at 3B than 1B.
That being said, the fact that Barton had not been slotted in at 3B ever, ESPECIALLY with the depth the A’s system has at 1B, is enough to tell you that he probably can’t play 3B.
Jon Garland, pleasepleaseplease accept arbitration. Your mad iNNiNgZ eAtEr sKiLLz will be greater exemplified in next year's free agent class. kthxbai.
by Blicks on Dec 5, 2008 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And Tony Pena Jr. pitched once last season.
Jon Garland, pleasepleaseplease accept arbitration. Your mad iNNiNgZ eAtEr sKiLLz will be greater exemplified in next year's free agent class. kthxbai.
by Blicks on Dec 5, 2008 9:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Some Royals fans have him penciled in for set up man next year.
I thought they meant the Diamondbacks guy but they were really impressed by that one outing.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 5, 2008 10:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The team looks to have a groundballing staff in the coming years with Cahill, Anderson,
Mazzaro, Rodriguez, and Ziegler. Also Gio, Braden, Outman and Blevins are lefties. I’d rather have stellar 3B defense with Cardenas than a slightly better bat and mediocre defense with Barton. Not to mention the improvement at defense with Barton over Dunn.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 5, 2008 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this sentiment.
Jon Garland, pleasepleaseplease accept arbitration. Your mad iNNiNgZ eAtEr sKiLLz will be greater exemplified in next year's free agent class. kthxbai.
by Blicks on Dec 5, 2008 9:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Furcal is not a done deal
I read (Mlb rumors) the a’s have a offer on the table to Furcal and is giving him 2 to 3 days or they will move on. With the winter meetings coming up does that mean a trade for a SS is a possiblity? Look what happened with Shannon Stewart he had a offer but turned it down and ended up signing at spring training for much less.
by Arcman on Dec 5, 2008 9:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
posted this on the DLD, from Olney's Blog:
• Oakland has made a multi-year offer to shortstop Rafael Furcal, but the Athletics don’t intend to leave the proposal on the table for long — perhaps another 48 to 72 hours. The market for Furcal has never emerged, Oakland is one of the few teams that seems serious about spending for him, and if he doesn’t take the offer, the Athletics are prepared to move forward with Bobby Crosby at shortstop and pursue other available players, such as Randy Johnson.
Save Rajai Davis
by oakinboston on Dec 5, 2008 10:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So the bluff begins....
only Billy doesn’t bluff. I hope Furcal knows this.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Dec 5, 2008 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
... off a bluff
I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Dec 5, 2008 5:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Damnit.
I hope we don’t get stuck with Crosby another year.
"To this day and dating back 25 years, before every game he plays, Henderson stands completely naked in front of a full length locker room mirror and says, "Ricky’s the best," for several minutes."
by VORP is too nerdy on Dec 5, 2008 12:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just happy it will only be one more year.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 5, 2008 5:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fine Analysis
Grover- Thanks for the effort. It’s realistic & well thought out. Highly recommended.
FYI. I truly thought we had Furcal signed last week. This " mystery team" that is pursuing Furcal is a real pisser. It probably is the Red Sox.
by alpine26 on Dec 5, 2008 9:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I hate the mystery team.
Jon Garland, pleasepleaseplease accept arbitration. Your mad iNNiNgZ eAtEr sKiLLz will be greater exemplified in next year's free agent class. kthxbai.
by Blicks on Dec 5, 2008 9:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Although I like them more than mystery meat
"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball
by JLeverenz on Dec 5, 2008 10:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah -- don;t think meat -- you'll only hurt the ballclub.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Dec 5, 2008 10:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
great work grover
any reason you have Anderson up a full year before cahill? I thought they were really close in terms of development.
Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom
by designatedforassignment on Dec 5, 2008 11:45 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
No reason, really
I like Anderson a bit more and I think he’s further along than Cahill. Remember, the rookies are concepts. I needed 1 rookie SP in 2010 and another in 2011.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 11:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Badler thinks they could both be up in late 2009
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 5, 2008 5:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm being conservative
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, my point was that your assumption is not unreasonable
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 5, 2008 7:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed about the projection.
But grover — who’s that hurleyNhowe guy, and howe did you break his heart?
Inquiring minds wanna know.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Dec 5, 2008 11:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I was on-line early this morning and had a good 15 minute laugh looking through that whole mess. The wierd thing is I can’t for the life of me figure out the reason it began. I have seen a couple of these b4, and you can usually trace it back to a heated exchange over something. But this just seems to have started for no reason what so ever.
What did hurleyNhowe know, and when did he know it?
"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty
by 5Aces on Dec 5, 2008 11:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I'm just an inspirational figure
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ya know, it's almost never the underling acts, but the cover-up that gets 'em.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Dec 5, 2008 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Crap.
“underlYing”
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Dec 5, 2008 12:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for clearing that up
I was trying to figure out who my underlings were.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no, you had it right
The true master gets his underlings to do the illegal acts.
I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Dec 5, 2008 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm suspecting alcohol had something to do with it
About a week or two ago, he made a couple strange comments to me in a Sactown Royalty game thread. He had joined that same day, so I didn’t have any idea who he was. That day, a troll posting under the name BringBackBobbyHurley on that game thread was banned from SBNation. He had posted some stuff here on the QOTM thread, but he got banned and the comments disappeared. I suspected from the beginning that hurleyNhowe was just a sockpuppet account for the same troll, and last night confirmed my suspicions.
au contra ire
by JediLeroy on Dec 5, 2008 3:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking more like brokeback fireline.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Dec 5, 2008 3:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I was saying
He’s in a drunken rage because, having been snubbed by grover (Grover?) he went to drink his sorrows away.
au contra ire
by JediLeroy on Dec 5, 2008 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and all day long I figured he was just a frustrated employee
at the TGI Friday’s.
"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty
by 5Aces on Dec 5, 2008 4:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My first job was just up the street at Harrold Ford
au contra ire
by JediLeroy on Dec 5, 2008 6:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Projecting 2009
Working off of PT’s excellent baseline:
I’d project Randy Johnson at +10 (replacing a -10), so +20 net
Furcal +15 (-10) +25 (25 0, 0 D)
Dunn +20 (-10) +30 (30 O, -10 D)
That leaves the team at +80 Runs Score and +40 Runs Allowed, or 93-69
FWIW, adding a full season of Nick Johnson adds 3 wins (+40, -10) … adjust that for health as you see fit …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Dec 5, 2008 12:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
oh and the -10 defense is from moving Dunn to the OF ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Dec 5, 2008 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops ...
My basic addition skills seem to be rusty …
I’d project Randy Johnson at +10 (replacing a -10), so +20 net
Furcal +15 (-10) +25 (15 0, 0 D)
Dunn +20 (-10) +30 (30 O, -10 D)
That leaves the team at +95 Runs Score and +35 Runs Allowed, or 94-68
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Dec 5, 2008 12:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for the math skills... such as they are
Would you really want to pursue Nick Johnson on top of Dunn, Big Unit and Furcal?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No room for both Johnson and Dunn
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 5, 2008 1:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Speechless?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're welcome ...
Probably not … but if Johnson could stay healthy, he’d be a bigger upgrade than Dunn …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Dec 5, 2008 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
could continue to stay healthy you mean.
He’s been healthy 3 of the last 4 seasons
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Dec 5, 2008 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's talking about Nick, not Randy
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 5, 2008 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is more or less in line with what I thought
i.e. that the A’s can probably keep Holliday but it’s an extreme stretch on the payroll, and that they definitely can’t afford any additional long-term signings. Even the 4th year for Furcal looks like it makes a Holliday acquisition questionable.
It’s going to take a lot of long-term thinking, creative jiggering of payroll, and dealing players before they hit their 5th and 6th years in order to make the finances on a Holliday deal workable. Beane is probably the only guy with enough job security that he could actually do this sort of thing, because he’ll inevitably be accused of being cheap, liking roster turnover more than having good players, etc etc etc.
Another option is to sign Holliday knowing in advance that he’s going to get traded in 2012. This is hugely risky though— if he gets hurt or loses his skills, you could be in a world of hurt.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 5, 2008 1:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I like the creative jiggering of payroll idea. The Braves did it pretty well and it allowed them to
keep Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz for a long time. The only big glitch was when Maddux accepted arb forcing the Millwood – Estrada trade, and even that somehow worked out pretty well.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 5, 2008 5:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sign Dunn and replace Crosby with a defensive minded SS.
Go hard after Holliday and package Barton + for Zimmerman.
After reading this post I am less in favor of signing Furcal. I don’t want to risk extending Holliday due to payroll limitations as a result of Furcal’s contract.
Cust
Holliday
Dunn
Zimmerman
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Dec 5, 2008 1:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I kinda agree with this...but then who's this "defense minded SS"? Izturis?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 5, 2008 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pennington Petit?
Take your pick. Someone making league minimum that is solid with the glove, but is not too emberassing with the bat.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Dec 5, 2008 11:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The trouble is that both of these guys will be too embarassing with the bat
I’m not even sure Pennington’s solid with the glove
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 5, 2008 11:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Buck will also be a super-2, no?
Unless you’re expecting another send down to the minors next year.
Also, I’ve been thinking about ways to get rid of Crosby. How about this deal: HRod OR 2 million, and Crosby for Giles. Really one-sided on our side? Well, the Padres are desperate to get rid of salaries. Now that Peavy is unlikely to be traded, the guy who makes the most sense to be traded is Giles. And Giles has a NTC. The only teams he might be willing to waive it for our west coast contending teams. That means the market is us, the Angels, and the Dodgers. Both LAA and LAD have their outfields overflowing with overpaid hitters mixed with youngsters. We could offer a starting gig.
Now why would we offer a starting position to Giles? CHONE projects Giles as a +1 in CF. Sweeney is the only one who projects as high defensively but CHONE is known to be inaccurate for youngsters. Giles also can hit better than all of our OFers minus Holliday. Combine that with Buck and Sweeney’s health problems, and Giles adds nice depth. And if one feels like it, one could trade Buck or Sweeney for a young 1b or 3b.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Dec 5, 2008 1:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
That wouldn't work.
If the Padres can’t trade Peavy (and, honestly, I think they probably won’t trade him this offseason), in order to get salary down to the 40MM they need it at, they will have to trade Giles and NOT take back any major salary committments. Only way the Pads would take Crosby is if the A’s ate all the salary.
And, LAA doesn’t have their OF overflowing. Ideally, they move Vlad to DH and pursue an OF, but they’re not going to do that. If the Angels don’t get Teixeira, they will be pushing hard for an OF. I prefer them getting Raul Ibanez or Bobby Abreu or Pat Burrell though.
Jon Garland, pleasepleaseplease accept arbitration. Your mad iNNiNgZ eAtEr sKiLLz will be greater exemplified in next year's free agent class. kthxbai.
by Blicks on Dec 5, 2008 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A year of Giles
Would be so ideal!
www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.
by ChadGod on Dec 5, 2008 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ive had a man-crush on him since he was with the indians.
www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.
by ChadGod on Dec 5, 2008 4:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
such a terrible trade when they sent him to the Pirates
… for, of course, AN fave Ricardo Rincon.
I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Dec 5, 2008 4:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Buck should not be a Super-2
He’d have (by my count) 2.089 days of service which should be too few to qualify him.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 7:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This makes it sound like he'd have 2 days, 1 hour and 47 mins of service
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 5, 2008 8:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2 years, 89 days
A baseball season is 180 days.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 8:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 5, 2008 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
After reading all this
I basically concluded that it’s definitely possible to sign Holliday to an extension. In fact, I’m much more optimistic now. The way I see it, the A’s can sign him as long as they stay creative, and stay on point and focused on using their resources optimally, as they always have been. If there’s anyone that can do it, it’s Billy Beane. I feel like we should have a good shot at this point.
Go join www.mycityscrewups.com and help make a difference in your community!
by ohad on Dec 5, 2008 5:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ya I always thought it was possible and now Grover's made it concrete.
Well done Grover!
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 5, 2008 5:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Obligatory quasi-threatening comment about spelling my name properly
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 5:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
stupid shift button
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 5, 2008 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Better to be a stupid shift
than a stupid shit!
:}
by mrod on Dec 5, 2008 7:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Shift happens...
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 6, 2008 12:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This was a fantastic post grover
I have been reading it off and on all day when time permits. Kudos!
So, I am a firm believer in the A’s ability to sign-extend Holliday for the next 5-6 years. It isn’t really a question if they can. The question is more about “Do the A’s want to attempt to lock him up pre FA?” & “Does Matt Holliday want to listen to Bean’s offer (if there was one of course) and not go the Scott Boras way of waiting for his ultimate FA payday?”.
This point has come up in previous threads ad-nasseum…..
The thing I like about this particular post is how you break down payroll for the whole team over the next several years showing what could possibly be in terms if what the team may or may not look like. Bottom line for me is I would really love Beane to shoot for the stars and do everything he can to put the screws to Holliday’s camp and at least make them “entertain the idea of an extension now!”. Go A’s!!!!
by mrod on Dec 5, 2008 8:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Glad you enjoyed the article
Although it seems I jinxed things by adding Furcal to the ledger.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 10:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well with no Furcal
we can probably afford it….
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Dec 5, 2008 10:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I seem to have jinxed myself
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 5, 2008 10:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
terrific post grover
I think the production needed from the farm is realistic.
Signing Holliday for the first time to me actually seems doable, at least until the yankees or red sox create a bidding war. It’s very important that the A’s compete this year if they want to have a shot at keeping him.
"Who's this Seagon guy? Is he in A-ball or something?" - Billy Beane
by pickinmachine on Dec 7, 2008 10:45 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Unless we do dumb things like...
…give $52million to Furcal. :-)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 7, 2008 6:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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