After Furcal, Sign Sabathia
by Uncle Charlie on Dec 3, 2008 4:52 PM PST
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PrintAssuming the A's sign Rafael Furcal, our next step should be to use the rest of our budget to sign CC Sabathia.
Let's start with the Furcal signing. Assume a four-year, $40mm-$44mm deal, which is what everyone has Furcal signing for right now. That would leave the A's with the following payroll numbers:
STARTING LINEUP: Suzuki (~$500K), Barton (~$500K), Ellis ($5M), Chavez ($11M), Furcal ($11M), Holliday ($13.5M), Sweeney (~$500K), Buck (~$500K), Cust (~$1.5M) . . . TOTAL: $44M
BENCH: Bowen (~$1M), Patterson (~$500K), Hannahan (~$500K), Davis (~$500K), Cunningham (~$500K) . . . TOTAL: $3M
ROTATION: Duke (~$3M), Gallagher (~$500K), Eveland (~$500K), G. Gonzalez (~$500K) . . . TOTAL: $5M
PEN: Ziegler (~$500K), Devine (~$500K), Casilla (~$500K), Blevins (~$500K), Gray (~$500K), Brown (~$500K) . . . TOTAL: $3M
In other words, we're currently sitting around $55M for our 25-man roster, with a decent enough offense (could use one more power bat, but not necessary), a decent enough bench (thin, but you can only ask for so much bench depth), a great bullpen, and a weak rotation beyond Duke (and possibly Gallagher).
According to everything I've read, Lew and Beane want to increase payroll to $80M this year. That leaves us with $25M to spend. Why not use that $25M to make a pitch for CC Sabathia?
1. He shifts everyone down a slot in our rotation, which puts people where they should be. Duke, as a #2, is strong. Gallagher, as a #3, is workable. Then let Eveland, Gio, Braden, and others fight it out for spots #4 and #5.
2. We have a wealth of up-and-coming pitching talent. Brett Anderson. Trevor Cahill. Michael Inoa. James Simmons. Vin Mazzaro. Gio Gonzalez. Josh Outman. Fautino de los Santos. To name a few. CC anchors the rotation for the next six years, and these other guys fill out the rest of the rotation cheaply.
With Furcal (and Holliday), I'd say we're a 79-to-84 win team. Add CC, and we suddenly become a potential 86-to-90 win team, i.e., a contender. CC doesn't hamstring us in the way he does other teams because we have so much young pitching that we can use for the next six years on the cheap.
To me, it's a no-brainer. Don't think it'll happen, but I think it should.
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I forgot to mention the last factor...
CC would love to pitch in front of his family in the East Bay — might even give us a slight hometown discount…
No.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
+1
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
The reply button is your friend.
Jon Garland, pleasepleaseplease accept arbitration. Your mad iNNiNgZ eAtEr sKiLLz will be greater exemplified in next year's free agent class. kthxbai.
Doesn't need to be.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Right...
… why respond when you can dismiss?
by Uncle Charlie on Dec 3, 2008 5:24 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly
It’s what any good lawyer would do…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I think this could also fall under "denial of cert"
I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@
He isn't, yet
But he’s right anyway
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
I'm not, yet
but I aspire to be one… so I do what they would do…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
The next Clarence Darrell I presume.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
That would be DarrOW...
protagonist of an as-yet-unwritten future screenplay of mine…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
But you've scoped it out?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't know what you mean by "scoped it out"
but I suspect the answer is no.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
"Scopes Trial" joke
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
What about Monkeyball and his nicos?
That’s right – he plays with five of my seven personalities. And they say I’m the weirdo?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No, I was referring to the lesser known Clarence Darrell.
http://pipl.com/directory/people/Clarence/Darrell
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
This is my brother Clarence Darrell ...
… and this is my other brother Clarence Darrell.
I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@
Just blame it on the recession;
if you have to offer a rebuttal…
With the U.S. trade deficit growing by the minute, Lew Wolff may want to tell BBeane to pass on signing a $100 million plus ball player and force Beane to look to “promote within”.
"What do we do with Crosby? Well, in my neighborhood, trash goes out on Mondays." ~ Nico
I'm sure this is why laywers are held in such high esteem.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
By their clients, yes
Dismissing is cheaper than replying. And, to be honest, most claims deserve dismissal.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Where have you read what you said you've read? Because I haven't read that.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I would rather extend a one year offer to several other pitchers on the FA market.
Andy Pettitte
Randy Johnson
Brad Penny
Long term deals for starting pitchers have a history of failing. I would rather give that money to Holliday next year.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
The increasing payroll to $80 million bit
I haven’t seen a figure anywhere
The monster at the end of this blog.
"want to" and "are willing to" are two very different concepts
I don’t think the A’s “want to” increase payroll that much, but various rumors have indicated that the A’s would be willing to increase payroll to as high as 70-80million to make the moves they want to make – such as maybe a Holliday extension. But I don’t think signing a pitcher to a long-term and expensive deal is something the A’s believe in philosophically as a good use of payroll.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Especially since the upper minors have a lot of SP
That was a very soft $80 million top. I think I’ll keep on keeping on at $75 million.
The monster at the end of this blog.
It came from
this article (and maybe others) at the time of the Holliday deal which said
The team is in position to increase its payroll to as much as $80 million, and plans to contend next season.
The “as much as” makes it all pretty speculative, and I think I’m already on record as being in the “I’ll believe it when I see it” camp on this one.
Thanks for tomorrow 'cause I've had enough
Pettitte, Johnson, Penny...
… problem with those guys is none of them has the impact CC does.
Yes, long-term deals for pitchers are risky. To that, I say, “no risk, no reward.” We can sit around and talk about over-the-hill bums like the Big Unit and Andy Pettitte, who won’t help us win next year, or we can grab the bull by the freakin’ horns, and sign a legit Cy Young contender like CC.
Now, if my $80M payroll number is off (which it may be, as suggested by Grover), then this is neither here nor there…
If you've got 25 million to throw around, why not go for more than one piece?
It’s like my friend, whose wife gives him $50 for food while she’s gone for a weekend, and he spends it all on one meal.
au contra ire
You know Joe Blanton's wife?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
In retrospect, I should've gone with Funnelcakes
The Jerk Store called, and they’re running out of YOU!
au contra ire
In former Soviet Union, Jerk Store calls *y-
Wait a sec. That’s not right.
I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@
The Unit is better than you're giving him credit for (he was easily top 10 NL pitchers last year)
So far there have been no >$100M deals for pitchers that have really worked out (Johan pending). The odds are very much against CC on this one.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
I love RJ as much as the next guy
But top 10 NL pitcher he was not (He almost wasn’t even within his own division)
Lincecum
Lowe
Billingsley
Haren
Webb
Peavy
Santana
Volquez
Dempster
C.C. Sabathia (just with the Brewers)
Sheets
Oswalt
are 12 were all better than RJ for sure, and then you get into others like Cain, Kuroda and Jurrjens who you can make arguments were better too.
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Maybe by "top" he meant "tallest"?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Actually I'm referring to this
Which would disagree with your list
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
No way he was top 10
Just my opinion but if he pitches in the AL his ERA is over 4.50, maybe even 5.00.
No thanks
Would you like to make a wager that if Johnson pitches for the A's next year, his ERA will be below 5?
You give me 100 for every point below 5, I’ll give you 100 for every point above.
Yes, I’m trying to put a big dent into my college tuition debt…
by thejd44 on Dec 3, 2008 7:21 PM PST up reply actions
There should be an innings pitched stipulation.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
I'm not on the CC bandwagon especially at that price.
He’s a great pitcher but this is exactly the type of contract a small market team should avoid. Heck… I’m ready to spend money on offense and trust the fact that A’s brass is pretty good at finding inexpensive arms. If we find enough offensive pieces to bust out crooked numbers once in a while, this team has a good chance to be competitive in 2009.
I hope the Angels continue to go after high-priced FA’s. IMO- this is a great year to have a low payroll because some of the richer teams will probably have to scale back due to the economy. There should be some deals out in the marketplace or, at least, that’s my hope.
Looking forward to Spring Training and the hope of another World Series title.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Dec 3, 2008 5:37 PM PST reply actions
Bartolo Colon's physique on Randy Johnson's frame
What could possibly go wrong with that?
I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@
That's what I first thought of too
Though not nearly as articulate as you
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nope
furcal…i’m still hesitant to give 4 yrs
looks like its down to a’s and the mystery teams…some desparate gm in kc/reds might overpay
CC…would be great but doubt it…for the total CC is getting A’s could probably sign 2 or 3 power bats
Big long term deals for pitchers usually don't go well.
Sabathia is a horse but the Brewers ran him into the ground last year, and nobody can take that much wear and tear.
I'd rather give that money to Tex
Furcal, Cust, Holiday and Tex 1-4 would be a nice offense for the young pitching to develop with. And it’d be nice to stick it to the Angels before the season even starts.
"Baseball is like a church. Many attend, but few understand." - Wes Westrum
Better use of 25 million (if the A's can actually spend that much)
Johnson 7 million
-trade Sweeney or Cunningham for Beltre 12 million
Everett 1 million
Giambi 5 million (if the market keeps showing a lack of interest in bad defense guys and not much money for middle of the pack FA’s)
Furcal SS
Cust DH
Holliday LF
Giambi 1b
Beltre 3b
Buck RF
Ellis 2b
Suzuki C
Sweeney/Cunningham CF
Johnson
Duke
Eveland
Gallagher
Gio/Outman/Braden
All of a sudden the team has depth: Chavez could be injured all year and we wouldn’t notice. Or if he’s magical healthy we can rest Beltre, Chavvy and Giambi to keep them healthy and always have a big bat on the bench. Plus we have a Raj Davis of the infield in Everett who becomes a quality defensive replacement at all of the infield. Better yet, Beltre and Johnson come on one year deals. We clear 20 million in payroll from those two the next year, allowing us to pursue Holliday. Or if we want to continue to rebuilding, we could have 4 type A FA’s: Holliday, Beltre, Duke, and RJ. And even better: we wouldn’t lose any picks this year.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
In that scenario, though, I'd probably favor
moving Chavez to 1B, passing on Giambi, and saving 5mil for a rainy day around July 31st.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
+1
At that point Chavez’s is fall back would be Barton and we still wouldn’t notice.
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Chavy's fall back doesn't worry me
His Spring and Summer back – those worry me a lot.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
So you're fine with him
being okay from April through August and then falling apart in September?
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
At this point...I'll take it!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd rather go with this lineup
Furcal SS
Sweeney CF
Cust DH
Holliday LF
Teixeira 1B
Chavez 3B
Suzuki C
Buck RF
Ellis 2B
We shouldn’t make a long term contract when we have so much pitching depth. It would be a waste of money after a few years. Besides, I don’t know why more people aren’t worried about CC pitching on three days rest, for what, 4 consecutive starts??
We have always needed hitting, and Tex is exactly that. Oh yeah, and he’s a switch hitter. If Chavy’s back can’t hold up all season, using Hannahan/Pennington?? won’t hurt as much offensively.
Also, I think this would be a good way to show that the A’s are serious. Maybe, just maybe, this would be a good way to keep Holliday around for a few years. If not, we still have Tex for years to come. This lineup is a win now and a contender for years to come.
by green_and_gold on Dec 3, 2008 6:27 PM PST up reply actions
No argument on any of that, and plenty of drool,
but I really wonder if the A’s are in a position to pay Holliday and Teixeira “top FA money.” At the very least, doing so would probably mean trading guys like Suzuki, and/or eventually Gallagher, Cahill/Anderson, as they hit arbitration because so much payroll was tied into two hitters.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I can't imagine we want more than half our payroll in two players
If either of them has any kind of problem we’re effed for 6 years.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
This is what messes up so many other teams
And they can better weather it than the A’s can.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
+1 sort of
If the A’s are going to spend 25 million on one player, I’d rather they throw it towards Teixeira.
Although I do not advocate resigning Holliday if Teixeira is signed.
"We were s--, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
it's a moot point
but cust would never hit in the three hole with both tex and holliday in the same lineup
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
I'd bat him second,
followed by those two. Drool.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Cust should probably bat second on the 2009 A's
Unless you’d rather put Holliday there and Cust fourth.
by thejd44 on Dec 4, 2008 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
I agree - I think that's where Cust should bat no matter what
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It's been shown repeatedly...
… that pitching on three-days rest is not as dangerous to a pitcher’s health as is pitching more than 120 pitches in one game. The high pitch-count games are the ones that destroy pitchers’ arms.
by Uncle Charlie on Dec 4, 2008 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
[Insert my repetitive "please stop mentioning Giambi, he makes no sense at all" post here]
And while depth is good, that much depth is inefficient.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Don't worry - we're then going to sign Dunn so that
Giambi never has to play.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If we do that we should def. sign CC, Lowe, and Sheets too
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Very little outfield depth on this team, especially after 2009
I like Beltre but at this point, if the A’s are going to pursue him, it’s going to have to be as a free agent. I don’t see any deal coming together with Seattle. Although I’d be happy to deal them Rodriguez for Beltre if they’d take him.
I would also point out that RJ is going to retire. He’s not going to get any comp picks.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
What I think is the simple reason why you don't sign Sabathia
If the A’s are actually going to be a very good team over the next 5+ years, Sabathia’s presence is going to be unnecessary. The strength of the A’s organization is starting pitching. If those guys don’t develop as we hope, the A’s aren’t going to be very good. They might be ok. They might contend for the division here or there, but they won’t be good enough to have $25 mil wrapped up in CC. If those guys do develop, CC won’t be needed because the A’s will have plenty of good-to-great pitching.
That’s why a guy like Randy Johnson for 1 year is a good idea. Some of that pitching isn’t quite ready, so you go with a short-term option to bridge the gap. Maybe you don’t like Johnson and you’d rather go short-term with somebody else, and that’s fine. But a long-term deal to a starting pitcher just isn’t what the A’s need.
by thejd44 on Dec 3, 2008 7:24 PM PST reply actions
+1. Spending all that money on our position of strength doesn’t seem to add up to me, when it could be better spent to upgrade our weakness, which is our offense of course.
My religion is A'slamic.
by WhoNeedsReligionWhenYaGotBaseball on Dec 3, 2008 11:12 PM PST up reply actions
Agree, and then not
Agree with thedj44’s comment; if the A’s are going to be successful, it will be because our pitching prospects pan out over the next 2-3 years. It does not follow, as whoneedsreligion argues, that starting pitching is a “position of strength.” As I mention below, starting pitching, right now, is a position of “potential strength.” That’s it. Gallagher, Gio, Brett Anderson, Cahill, Simmons, de los Santos, Outman… NONE of these guys has arrived at the major league level, and most haven’t even performed well above AA.
So, while I agree with the premise that our team’s success in 2009, 2010, and 2011 will come down to the development of our many pitching prospects, I don’t think that leads to the conclusion that you don’t sign a perenial Cy Young candidate… like I said, my plan would be to build the rotation of the next six years around CC. CC is the anchor, and the rest of our prospects fill the other spots in the rotation each year. Means one less propsect has to turn into a star in order for us to be successful.
Additionally, hitters appears to be getting less valuable on the FA market (because GMs are starting to factor in defense in deciding how much to pay), which, to me, suggests that it will be easier in the future to fill offensive holes through free agency and trades than it will be to fill pitching vacancies. Another reason to grab CC now (if there’s any hometown discount available)…
by Uncle Charlie on Dec 4, 2008 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
If I were a GM
I would be nervous as shit to sign any pitcher to more than a 3 year deal.
I'm with you
With the exception of a pre-arby player I’m locking up in the first 6 years. This is less risky, although it can be a pain, too, if you’ve got a guy like Harden or Mark Prior.
by thejd44 on Dec 3, 2008 7:33 PM PST up reply actions
so crosby must have SOME VALUE
greene maybe headed for 2 relief prospects…dodgers, tigers could use a SS
Khalil Greene Headed To St. Louis
By Tim Dierkes [December 3 at 10:41pm CST]
10:41pm: Sherman has an update: the Padres are closing in on a deal that will send Greene to the Cardinals.
8:29pm: According to Joel Sherman of the New York Post, the Padres are expected to trade shortstop Khalil Greene prior to Monday’s Winter Meetings. Sherman was unable to ascertain Greene’s destination, but he guesses it could be the Orioles or Cardinals. The Padres are intent on clearing Greene’s $6.5MM salary.
The Padres requested Garrett Olson from Baltimore for Greene a few weeks ago, but maybe the price has come down. One team not expected to acquire Greene is the Tigers.
I've always maintained that Crosby had some value
He plays a position that is very difficult to fill, he defends it adequately, and he…well, he hits a lot of doubles for a suckfest-with-a-bat. At worst, the A’s ought to be able to dump his salary and at best they ought to be able to get a prospect back for him.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
As far as free agents over the next couple of years go, I like CC ...
I think his contract will be fairly “reasonable” … I just don’t think he’s a good fit for the A’s.
1. Contract length — he’s going to get a longer contract than anyone except Tex. Not only does this bring out a ton of risk for someone who has pitched more innings than anyone over the last few years, it also causes budgetary problems. The team could afford CC in 2009 — but the team is going to get much, much more expensive quickly as all of the young players become arbi eligible.
2. Position — while a pitcher is probably a good investment for 2009, it probably won’t be going forward given the team’s depth at the position among young MLers and in the upper minors.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Both good reasons to grab a pitcher looking for a high pay/short contract
We definitely need the help for ’09 and possibly ’10. ’11 on, probably/hopefully less so.
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renteria looks done
Giants Sign Renteria?
By Tim Dierkes [December 3 at 11:24pm CST]
11:24pm: Henry Schulman says Renteria took a physical for the Giants today and “a deal appears to be done.”
25 Million spare change?
Why would you waste it on another starting pitcher?
Isn’t the idea to improve where you are weak? This certainly doesn’t qualify. We have so many arms in the Minors it isn’t worth it, and if we are going to sign starting pitching there are plenty of nice bargain pitchers out there that will be very effective.
I would much rather pay Holliday. While we’re at it. Sign Burrell. Cheaper than Teix and who says we HAVE to spend it. It would be nice to have money. We can get something we actually need.
Disagree
There is an assumption on this message board that starting pitching is a position of strength for the A’s. While that may eventually be true, at this point, starting pitching is really a position of “potential strength.” Cahill, Simmons, Gio, Anderson, etc. have all put up good numbers in the minors, but as many people say: TNSTAAPP (there’s no such thing as a pitching prospect).
Right now, I would say the WEAKEST aspect of our 2009 team is starting pitching. Duke is not a reliable #1; when he’s healthy he’s a good #2, but his health is sketchy at best. After that, we’ve got basically nothing reliable. Sean Gallagher. Gio Gonzalez. Dana Eveland. Dallas Braden. Is this our strength? If so, I’d like to see our weakness. If we sign Furcal, which we seem destined to do, starting pitching will be far and away the weakest part of our team… which is why it makes sens to spend our money on a guy like CC.
by Uncle Charlie on Dec 4, 2008 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
I'd agree about 2009 ...
but beyond that (and maybe 2010), if our young pitching doesn’t turn into the strength of the team, the team won’t likely be any good, so it doesn’t matter anyway …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
This is such
WE MUST WIN NOW mentality. Obviously we don’t know how the pitchers will turn out, but to spend 25 million dollars on a single player, who plays every 5 days, when we have so much minor league depth is just foolish. I’d love to see Sabathia in an A’s uniform, but not at 25 million.
Granted the pitching may not be as strong as former A’s teams, but there is a lot of potential there. It is absolutely foolish to keep adding depth to a deep position when you have one of the worst offenses in baseball.
From what I've been reading at MLBTR
the market for Adam Dunn is scarcely quiet. So much, in fact, that they said it might take only 4/40 to pick him up. If that is the case, or anywhere close to it, I say go for it.
That's just silly
If that’s all it takes then they should sign Dunn and Furcal and ship the AL west.
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No kidding - forget defense at 1B
if you can add both for cheapish.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
furcal not good at poker
Since he tried to stall for a bigger contract his demand has gone down. Giants are out and the dodgers are virtualy out. Blue Jays and Cards are now out. Damn it all but leaves the door open for the A’s. He could be had for a 3 year deal now.
I'm all for signing Teix...
… but it won’t happen. Plus, Teix, unlike CC, doesn’t come with the potential of a hometown discount. Here’s my question: Isn’t it worth it to kick the tires on a guy like CC? See how much of a discount he might accept to play in the Bay Area?
Over the last three seasons, he has an ERA+ of 140, 143, and 162.
You could ask
But I bet the discount wouldn’t be meaningfully less than the NYY offer. That’s out of our price range.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
I think some of us are getting a little too enamored...
…with the idea of ‘buying’ a team through free agency. Balance, people… balance.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
It's not buying a team. That's what the Yankees try to do.
It’s spending money and being smart about it.
Furcal – yes, probably an overpay, but it’s an overpay at the weakest position in the entire organization.
Randy Johnson – one year deal, doesn’t block any prospects, won’t cost a ton anyway, helps “win now” for 2009.
Dunn – 3/36 is a horrific underpay for a guy who hits 40 bombs EVERY. YEAR. and has a .380 OBP. Defense be damned, throw him at first base and let him mash, then either move him to LF in 2010 if Holliday leaves or leave him at 1B and convert Barton to 3B.
It’s one thing to go sign every big name out there, it’s quite another to sign guys who make sense and/or come cheaper than they should.
More of a generic observation...
…about the perception that because we’ve signed or will sign a few, suddenly everybody is fair game and a realistic possibility.
Furcal, yes. RJohnson? Sure, why not. One year. Sabbathia? I’m not so sure.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
Isn't Sabbathia a once/week pitcher?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'M FOR THIS IDEA
1. Add Furcal for 4 yrs, $42M: Slight overpay, but replaces the worst bat in our lineup (Croz).
2. Add Dunn for 4 yrs, $52M: Not an overpay, can’t believe he’d go for this price (MLB Trade Rumors had him at 3-years, $36M, which I simply cannot believe, so I’m adding a year and some money). Defense be damned — stick him at 1B, and send Barton back to the minors to learn to play LF (so he can take over for Holliday when Holliday signs with the BoSox in 2010).
3. Add Big Unit on a one-year deal with a team option (and a buyout): Not sure what he’d want for one year, but a high price is worth the risk (assuming it’s in the $8M-$10M range).
Those three players put us about +9 wins over where we are right now, a significant improvement, and keep our payroll around $75M, which is reasonable. Plus, we don’t lock ourselves into a long-term deal for CC, which seems to strike fear into everyone on this message board (except for me).
So, instead of signing Furcal and Sabathia, I’m on board with signing Furcal, Dunn, and the Big Unit. LET’S DO THIS. The AL West is winnable, and flags fly forever. You can’t keep putting off trying to compete while you wait for young guys to develop, especially not after you trade for a rare talent like Matt Holliday.
I’m seeing this lineup:
Furcal – ss
Buck – rf
Holliday – lf
Dunn – 1b
Cust – dh
Suzuki – c
Chavez – 3b
Ellis – 2b
Sweeney – cf
Looks good to me.
by Uncle Charlie on Dec 5, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
I completely agree (as apparently does Beane) with Furcal and RJ
I just would prefer to make a run at keeping Holliday instead of ditching Barton for Dunn (who I like a lot).
Part of that, of course, is I think Barton will be much improved in 2009.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
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