New Stadium Closer to Bart?

by dboysick on Dec 3, 2008 1:20 AM PST Comment 53 comments

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/02/BADN14G35N.DTL

"Here's a possible game changer - the Oakland A's will sit down this week with BART officials to discuss moving the team's proposed Fremont ballpark to within walking distance of the planned Warm Springs BART station.

And from the sound of things, A's boss and chief developer Lew Wolff is willing to play ball

"I'm not opposed to looking at anything that will improve our ability to move the ballpark along," Wolff told us Tuesday, in response to BART's meeting invite." .

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couple of questions

who owns the land at the proposed site?

will the Ballpark Village be built anyway? (it would still need to go through the environmental impact and other pernit processes, even without its bg draw of the on-site ballpark). if not, how will the ballpark’s construction be financed?

by OaklandSi on Dec 3, 2008 6:11 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

by the way, just over 8 acres near the Warm Spring BART site

is owned by Jack Balch enterprises:

Old Warm Springs / Grimmer, Fremont 8.13 Acres Close proximity to future Bart Station. Can accommodate a campus type requirement of 150,000-sq. ft. or more Call for sale price

I’m guessing that the asking price would be much more than what Wolff paid for the land in and around the ballpark village proposal because of its location, amongn other things.

by OaklandSi on Dec 3, 2008 7:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Land is owned by several parties

Besides the Balch property you cited, land is owned by NUMMI, mega-developer Sobrato, and NUMMI-related parties. I had seen a map earlier showing the landowners, and GM had a large chunk west of the station site. NUMMI kept its share of land clear to potentially house a parts warehousing operation, but the costs associated with that and its just-in-time assembly model makes warehousing cost-prohibitive.

To put a stadium on that site, Wolff will have to buy most of the surrounding land just to provide 8-10,000 parking spaces. Even if NUMMI closes down as is rumored to happen after their next labor deal expires, that land won’t be cheap. At least it’s ready to build.

The real questions here are, “Will NUMMI provide resistance?” and “What are Toyota’s future plans for NUMMI?” GM has a small percentage of the total number of cars being built at the plant, and for now I’ll assume that they may be more willing to sell their land given their financial struggles.

by vertig0 on Dec 3, 2008 9:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

vertig0,

have people been musing about the potential impact of a Federal stimulus package, a significant portion of which would likely target transportation development (in the words of the administration-elect, “ready-to-go projects”)?

Could this money be used for BART and nearby highways?

Save Rajai Davis

by oakinboston on Dec 3, 2008 9:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Get in line

Everyone from CA High Speed Rail to Amtrak supporters in the Northeast want a piece of that pie. BART may be able to get some money from the 10% of HSR’s initial bonds that are meant for regional rail, but most of that will probably go to Caltrain’s electrification project and LA Metrolink.

As for highways, I doubt it. The way the process will go with the stimulus, the feds will act on projects that are deemed ready-to-go as they have the best shot at having real benefit. Projects that are either in their infancy or on a wish list will have to go to the back of the line. That puts California in a tough spot, since we have our time-consuming environmental impact process to deal with first.

by vertig0 on Dec 3, 2008 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

so, you're saying I'm unlikely to get federal stimulus funding for my floating stadium island?

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 3, 2008 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

keep hope alive

by jeffro on Dec 3, 2008 10:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You can't if you don't get in line

You might have to cozy up to Ah-nold though.

by vertig0 on Dec 3, 2008 11:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course, there's an even longer line for that.

"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL

by oblique on Dec 3, 2008 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

When it comes to cozying up to the Governor ...

… nobody beat these folks.

Proof.

Mint Chocolate Chip

by Ice Cream on Dec 3, 2008 8:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks to Measure Q and SB 375

My guess is this move is made possible by 1) voters approving the BART extension to San Jose through Warm Springs and 2) California’s recent passage of SB 375, which exempts projects from certain types of environmental review if they’re located near transit stations and offers incentives to local governments to facilitate that process. It’s well known that Wolff hates CEQA (CA’s environmental review statute), and by locating a village next to BART, it will streamline review, save money and speed things up. Plus, from a San Francisco A’s fan perspective (me), this makes a move to Fremont a helluva lot more palatable than siting a ballpark in the Lord of the Ring Dead Marshes.

by EastBayTeam on Dec 3, 2008 8:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

SB 375

I thought that the focus of SB 375 was namely housing. There are already mechanisms in place to authorize funding if certain transit-oriented development goals are reached, such as housing density. I have doubts that a ballpark and massive parking lots are compatible with such intent.

SB 375 is moot, anyway. The EIR will contain an alternative that sites the ballpark next to Warm Springs BART.

by vertig0 on Dec 3, 2008 9:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

True dat

Yes, SB 375 is for housing exemption only, but considering that a big portion of Wolf’s plan involves residential development around the stadium, presumably the portion of the EIR dealing with housing impacts would not have to delve into traffic and growth inducing impacts from the full time residents. So the whole project would still require one massive EIR, but at least post-SB 375 there might be an opportunity to make it less cumbersome than it would have been before the bill passed.

by EastBayTeam on Dec 4, 2008 3:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

that's a Dead Marsh with a mayor to you, bub

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 3, 2008 10:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

so as long as i build near a bart stop

i can pollute all i like? awesome.

actually, that would explain a lot of things. daly city, for example.

BB should send scouts to watch cricket players.

by alea iacta est on Dec 3, 2008 2:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sort of

I’m not sure what explains Daly City but I know that the Bay Area Metropolitan Transportation Commission has been trying to encourage development around BART stations for a number of years now. Not so much that you can pollute all you want, but you get some incentives (and sometimes public money) to build housing and offices. I wish we had more development like this in the Bay Area, but it’s very expensive to build and there are a ton of political obstacles in almost every case.

by EastBayTeam on Dec 4, 2008 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Daly City BART was planned and built before many of the

mitigating laws and regulations were put into effect.

by OaklandSi on Dec 4, 2008 6:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

this would be great

My main gripe with the new stadium plan has been the lack of transit access for Oaklanders. Well that and the team name change (what is the status of that anyways? is it really going to the Fremont A’s?). If those of us from Oakland/Berkeley would simply be subject to another ten to twenty minutes on the train, I don’t think that’s all that much to ask for a new stadium. Although it is not the optimal solution of an estuary-fronting yard.

by MaineAthletic on Dec 3, 2008 8:30 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Is it too much to ask Wolffy to find a spot in Oakland then?

I mean he obviously has plenty of cash and options available if he is willing to make the compromise.

Well the ownership is pretty transparently opportunist with this BART extension to San Jose.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 3, 2008 10:18 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

i love your sig

by jeffro on Dec 3, 2008 10:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's still about Silicon Valley

They want to get as close to the money down here as possible. Downtown Oakland is moving in the wrong direction for that.

by vertig0 on Dec 3, 2008 11:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

And with BART going to San Jose finally it makes even more sense to build the stadium right where they’re planning to. It’s practically equidistant between Downtown SJ and Downtown Oakland. The A’s will be able to service both municipalities equally now via public transit and freeway. So in their minds they don’t lose anything they have now in Oakland and they have a lot to gain from the new fanbase in SJ.

by athletics68 on Dec 3, 2008 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you

I’m still looking for a WAV file. Someone (ice cream maybe) tried to help me find it, but no luck. I haven’t been able to figure out which game it was from.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 3, 2008 10:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

that was a reply to jeffro

obvi

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 3, 2008 10:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I am bummed

Bill King isn’t in the flippin Hall of Fame dammit. This year is especially sickening.

by jeffro on Dec 3, 2008 11:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't it from the Holy Roller game?

Raiders vs. Chargers, 9/10/78?

by EddieVegas_NRAF on Dec 3, 2008 11:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No, it was an A's game, circa 2004 or 05

I’m pretty sure

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 3, 2008 8:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

is there enough land at the other site for the housing?
or would only the ballpark move, with the village remaining at the old location?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 3, 2008 11:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

The article says

Even Fremont Mayor and ballpark booster Bob Wasserman says he and his City Council colleagues “definitely” have to look at the idea, now that the tanking economy has forced the A’s to put the rest of their “ballpark village” plan for 3,000 apartment and townhouses on ice.

I assume this (that the ballpark village plan is “on ice”) is an overstatement, but they’d be crazy not to be considering alternatives that don’t rely on building all that new housing.

Thanks for tomorrow 'cause I've had enough

by andeux on Dec 3, 2008 11:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

no, it's not an overstatement; it's not even a metaphor

Lew has quietly been buying up mineral rights along the entire BART/interstate corridor, and he’s going to install super-cold maglev tracks, and have a mobile stadium, floating microns above the ground, that can drift from location to location …

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 3, 2008 12:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

A Bullet Stadium?

au contra ire

by JediLeroy on Dec 3, 2008 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

"Thanks for tuning in to watch the Fremont A's beat the L.A. Angels, 4-1. Tomorrow, watch the Fruitvale A's take on the Seattle Mariners."

by LoneStranger on Dec 3, 2008 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

as long as we're getting specific

I think it would be the “Lower Fruitvale-Greater Hegenberger Area A’s”, sponsored by the High Street bridge and Tampico.

by jdr on Dec 4, 2008 11:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

There isn't enough land for the housing.

But there MIGHT be enough for a version of the “Santana Row” part of the current ballpark village plan. The commercial and some residential above it. But the majority of the current ballpark village plan would have to be left back at Pacific Commons.

by athletics68 on Dec 3, 2008 11:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

There wouldn't be housing at the Warm Springs site

Again this is a NUMMI issue. They will never allow housing next to the plant as long as they operate there. NUMMI is already complaining about traffic from the original stadium concept, which is 1.25 miles west and across a freeway. Housing at Warm Springs has to be a nonstarter.

by vertig0 on Dec 3, 2008 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Do you have any info

about the part I quoted above, which suggests that Wolff may be looking to scale down the project even at the current site? Last I heard he was explicitly denying this, though I didn’t really believe him.

Thanks for tomorrow 'cause I've had enough

by andeux on Dec 3, 2008 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

"scale down"?

The Silicon Valley Athletics of Stonehenge?

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 3, 2008 3:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

They're going after the sal market

Thanks for tomorrow 'cause I've had enough

by andeux on Dec 3, 2008 3:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

as long as our closers...

…don’t start spontaneously combusting!

"I have more questions after these."-WaddellCanseco

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 3, 2008 11:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

There's a fine line between stupid and clever

by EddieVegas_NRAF on Dec 8, 2008 9:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't know if scale down is the right phrase

It’s more along the lines of pushing out certain parts and redesigning others. For instance, the housing was planned to be built in 3 or 4 phases. Now it may be that Phases 1 & 2 happen along a timeline originally set for Phases 3 & 4.

If there’s a scaling back of anything it will be the “village.” That is where the bulk of the expensive condos and lofts will be. I expect that to have just the commercial part built out immediately while the foundation work will be in place for the residential later on. That’s how Bay Street was built IIRC.

by vertig0 on Dec 3, 2008 3:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't the "village" supposed to pay for bulk of the stadium?

I’m a little skeptical about how much money Wolff/Fisher are willing to spend of their own. If a considerable portion of the real estate development is dead, I would tend to believe that the budget won’t meet the actual construction costs. Sadly, I don’t see any strengths in Wolff as an owner if he can’t pull off a major real estate deal that self funds a ballpark. He will just be another David Glass that allows the team to tread water on a tight budget.

BB can pull off miracles with a limited payroll but the franchise may be in trouble if Forst & Farhan can’t deliver on the VORGM.

Looking forward to Spring Training and the hope of another World Series title.

by ohtobe21likehuston on Dec 3, 2008 5:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

you forget the AS

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 3, 2008 5:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The VORGASM?

Looking forward to Spring Training and the hope of another World Series title.

by ohtobe21likehuston on Dec 3, 2008 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You're right to be skeptical

I don’t know where the money is going to come from either. It really all depends on how Wolff/Fisher are committed to making this work. Contrary to what many believe, the original concept isn’t designed for a quick buck. There’s a massive infusion of capital needed to make it work. The payoff comes over a decade or more. Are they willing to see it spread out to two decades or more? We’ll see.

by vertig0 on Dec 3, 2008 5:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

New Stadium Closer to Bart?

Joey Devine, like his predecessor, is also a public transit advocate?

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 3, 2008 3:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I would love it if we could walk to the stadium from BART.

I hate,taking the bus after BART when I go to phone company park.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 4, 2008 11:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Just walk from Embarcadero. It's pleasant.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 5, 2008 12:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Montgomery is a shorter walk ...

though there is a hill …

But why are we discussing Telecom to be named later Park?

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 5, 2008 12:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Because there are paralells here

If Cisco Field was built at Pacific Commons, the distance from Warm Springs BART to Cisco Field would be about the same as BART (Embarcadero is 1.6 mi or Montgomery is 1.2 mi) to the Phone Booth. Personally, I think a BART and shuttle system would be fine in Fremont (assuming the shuttle is from Warm Springs and about 1.25 mi from Cisco Field eventually).

by jeffro on Dec 5, 2008 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs