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OK, so Plan A didn't work, on to Plan B! There is a Plan B... right?

After the disaster that was the A’s most recent foray into free agency, we need to re-evaluate where the team stands. Shortstop remains a hole in the line-up and possibly in the field. 1st base would be almost as bad if it weren’t for the not-completely-unfounded hope that Daric Barton can be a productive big leaguer next year. We’re counting on Eric Chavez and Mark Ellis to return from injury and perform at some reasonable semblance of their former selves. Buck and Sweeney have potential, but they’ve had problems staying healthy and don’t exactly have a track record of consistency. The rotation is long on potential but short on experience, the depth of options is nice but the best young arms might not be ready to blossom until 2010.

 

There is some good news. Holliday, Cust and Suzuki are all plusses, especially if Cust gets to DH full time. The bullpen is solid and while it’s unlikely that Devine and Ziegler will match their ridiculously low 2008 ERAs they should still be more than fine in 2009. Reinforcements are on the way, Sacramento’s rotation and Midland’s line-up are loaded with quality prospects. Plus the A’s have some fiscal flexibility, which is always a good thing but is an even bigger asset when the economy is rough. The only question here is: How much cash do the A’s have on hand?

Star-divide

We’ve already heard Beane exclaim that his 2009 budget has shrunk in light of the current economic crunch. What we don’t know is how badly his cash flow has been impacted. Up until a few weeks ago posters like myself, PaulThomas and Zonis (basically, the guys who like to throw different roster variations up against the wall) were basing our suggestions on a budget of up to $85 million dollars. This number was based on the A’s 2007 spending habits and included player salaries and amateur signing bonuses. It seems likely that that number has shrunk. The A’s currently have approximately $51 million invested in the big league roster and the belated attempt to place Bobby Crosby on outright waivers signals a desperate attempt to free up more cash in an effort to make another move. This suggests to me that the A’s might have lost up to 20% of their original expected budget, or roughly $17 million. Keeping in mind that the A’s probably don’t want to cut into their amateur signing bonus moneys (that should be around $7 million, which I got by taking last year’s expenditures and subtracting the bulk of Inoa’s record setting bonus… c’mon, how many once-in-a-decade prospects can the A’s sign in a 12 month period?) it seems to me that the A’s probably have between $61-63 million that they can spend on the big league roster. That means Beane has $10-12 million to play with.

Where should that money be invested?

I still think the critical area is at shortstop. If the last few weeks have proven anything, it’s that the A’s have no intention of keeping Crosby around longer then they have to and it certainly appears that there are severe doubts as to the ability of Petit or Pennington to take over long term. Justin Sellers has yet to hit and Adrian Cardenas doesn’t have the range to play the position. The 2008 draft class might produce a long term solution but Christian and Coleman are at least two full years away. I realize there are some who are concerned about Chavez coming back from his myriad of injuries; I agree with those concerns but I also feel he deserves the chance to try and come back. I’ll admit my concern is alleviated by the continued belief that Cardenas has the tools to make it at the hot corner IF the A’s would ever give him the chance.

(Folks are probably thinking: That’s all well and good, grover, but the best SS on the FA market done gone and signed with the Dodgers. Yeah, I noticed.)

The only option left to the A’s is to trade for a new SS and the options are limited. I’ve come up with 3 players that I believe are realistic alternatives to anyone currently in the Oakland organization and it just so happens that each comes with a varied degree of cost/reward potential for you to consider. I’ve used Sean Smith’s 2009 projection (based on CHONE and UZR) to give you an idea of how the various players will perform. Smith has Crosby at .7/1.1/1.5/2 WAR based on his defensive performance. The standards are Poor/Average/Good/Exceptional. So let’s pick the A’s new SS for 2009 and beyond.

 

Low Cost/Low Reward Potential

Chin-lung Hu (LA Dodgers) Born: 2/84; 6 seasons until FA, P-WAR = .5/.7/.9/1.1

FOR

Santiago Casilla RHRP Born: 7/80; 4 seasons until FA, P-WAR = .7

The Dodgers non-tendered 2008 closer Takashi Saito because his elbow shut him down at the end of last year and it remains a question mark heading into next season. He re-signed with the Dodgers but the questions about the elbow remain unchanged. This deal would be a cost-neutral way for the Dodgers (something that’s been of increased importance to Colletti of late) to add an experienced power arm to their bullpen.

CHONE cracks down hard on Hu’s bat for good reason; he hit like crap last year and appeared to lose whatever power he gained in 2007. Word is Hu had vision issues last year that are supposed to be corrected in the offseason. I don’t know if that means Lasic or corrective lenses or just keeping him away from the sun screen but it leads me to think/hope that his true hitting skills lie closer to his 2007 performance than his Garth Brooks impersonation of yester year. Almost the entirety of Hu’s P-WAR comes from his glove, which scouts have been praising for years. He is likely to provide Good or Excellent level defense in 2009, meaning his glove alone will be worth at least 1 Win. If the bat comes around at all he could easily surpass his projection.

Since this is the only trade that doesn’t include Crosby, I’ll add that I intend to send Bobby + $4 million in cash to the Padres for a prospect or two to be decided at a later date. The real benefit in a Hu/Casilla trade is that it doesn’t cost the A’s any cash so Beane is free to take the $1.25 million he saved in dealing Crosby and combine that with what he already had in the till to give himself $11-13 million to pursue FA opportunities.

 

Medium Cost/Medium Reward Potential

Clint Barmes (Colorado Rockies) Born: 3/79; 3 seasons until FA, P-WAR = .5/.8/1.2/1.7

FOR

Vincent Mazzaro/Andrew Bailey/Bobby Crosby + $4 million

This is one where you have to wonder what the projection system was seeing when it spat out its numbers. Barmes out-hit Crosby by 85 OPS last year and that’s after adjusting for Park/League, plus Smith projects him to save twice as many runs as Crosby will in 2009… so why does Barmes project to be worse then Crosby in 2009? Anyways, it seems to me that Barmes, while a hacker, should at least be a match with Crosby with the bat next year and his defense should give him the overall edge. Barmes is arbitration eligible, so he’s going to cost a couple million (give or take a few hundred thousand) in 2009 but the Crosby savings ($1.25 million) should cover at least half of that, meaning Beane should still have enough cash to make a major move in FA.

Colorado gets two young power arms with ground ball tendencies while Crosby provides insurance for Tulo and 2nd base. Mazzaro and Bailey have potential and the A’s organization will feel the hit but neither arm is currently expected/projected to play a key role in 2009. This is a deal that you won’t be able to accurately judge until a year down the road and it shouldn’t be ignored that it is the A’s who are risking more in the long term. Barmes has struggled with consistency and at 30 years old we shouldn’t expect him to get any better then he’s already shown. He’s young enough to maintain where he’s at through the next 3 years but Mazzaro or Bailey could end up providing more value down the line.

 

High Cost/High Reward Potential

J.J. Hardy (Milwaukee Brewers) Born: 8/82; 2 seasons until FA, P-WAR = 2.1/2.5/3/3.5

FOR

Sean Gallagher/Josh Outman/Bobby Crosby + $4 million

OR

Gio Gonzalez/Vincent Mazzaro/Bobby Crosby + $4 million

Just to clear up any confusion, the Brewers get to pick the package they prefer and Alcides Escobar isn’t an available option so don’t ask if we could swap him for Hardy. The Brewers need SP and either package gives them one arm the A’s had penciled in for their 2009 Opening Day roster and another arm who should be ready by mid-season. Crosby provides them low-cost SS insurance so they don’t have to rush Escobar.

 

Hardy is in his prime and is set to make between $4.5-5 million in arbitration. He’s also, as I noted above, two years away from FA. It would be my intention to sit him down and hammer out a 3 year/$24 million contract (7/8/9) to buy out his 1st year of FA eligibility and keep him in Oakland until someone from the 2008 draft class is ready to take over SS. Short of getting hit by an asteroid, Hardy will represent a major upgrade over Crosby. He’d also eat up about half of the cash that Beane had saved, thereby restricting what additional moves the A’s could make.

Those are your options, go ahead and speak your piece.

 

Poll
Which plan do you prefer?
Hu
100 votes
Barmes
52 votes
Hardy
313 votes
Other
124 votes

589 votes | Poll has closed

1 recs | Comment 175 comments | Share on Facebook Digg!

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Comments

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Hardy,

is he really going to outproduce Crosby plus Gallhager, plus Outman? Seems highly unlikely. Give me Hu.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Dec 26, 2008 8:35 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was just looking at it

and wondering what value there was for the Brewers. I’ve seen a fair amount of Gallagher. I wonder what the view on his ceiling is – I guess I don’t see it that high. I’ve never seen Outman, but just perusing his stats and A’s page, he doesn’t look like much of an addition if any at all.

by Lovejoy on Dec 26, 2008 8:47 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gallagher has a decent chance to be a #2 starter

though in 2009 he should not be counted on being that good. He was rushed a bit, plus he had a tired arm last year. His ceiling is high, though, and I think “Gallagher plus” could make for a very fair deal from Milwaukee’s POV.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 9:09 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but from what I saw, he looked like a significantly lesser pitcher. He’s sure to have been heavily scouted and evaluated by the Brewers though.

I’d say there was also potential for being a really bad trade as well.

by Lovejoy on Dec 26, 2008 9:19 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You just saw him at his worst

First he was nervous trying to make a good impression and then his arm didn’t feel good. He’s still raw, but his control is better than he showed with Oakland and what you saw was from a 22 year old pitching in the big leagues. If his arm is ok, I think he’ll be a very good pitcher in 2010 at the latest.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 9:32 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not to jump into a pre-existing argument,

(Hello, I’d like an argument)

but I think it’s also safe to say that part of Gallaghers’ problem is inexperience as well, no? He’s 22, and my impressions of him from last year were cautiously optimistic. He made mistakes, yes, but correctable ones, I thought.

I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico

by Leopold Bloom on Dec 26, 2008 2:28 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Brewers really need pitching, having lost Sheets and Sabs to FA

Smith gives Bush the highest score among current Brewer pitchers and Milwaukee tried to push him into the bullpen last season.

For Outman, you basically need to go back and look at his 2007 numbers. The Phillies really screwed up by trying to convert him to the bullpen last year.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:05 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can miss the obvious

but who is Smith and what score among pitchers do you speak of?

For guys like Outman, I would think it would depend on what they know about him and what they expect.

by Lovejoy on Dec 26, 2008 3:54 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’ll go out on a limb – Bush having the highest Chone number doesn’t mean much.

by Lovejoy on Dec 27, 2008 6:34 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i really like outman

but i would take hardy for him a gallagher in an instant. we have enough young pitching even without those two guys

that's gold jerry, gold!!!

by 9Custs on Dec 26, 2008 5:12 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't be too sure - how good will the A's be in 2009

if their rotation is Duchscherer, Eveland, Braden, Gio Gonzalez, and, um…?

And how good will the A’s be in 2010 if Holliday leaves while Cahill and Anderson are just getting their feet wet?

These could wind up being the “middle ground” scenarios Beane has warned of (and usually followed).

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 5:21 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Let's add up the numbers

An average-gloved Crosby (1.1) plus Gallagher (1.5) plus Outman (.7) = 3.3 WAR

And average-gloved Hardy = 2.5 WAR

Above average-gloved Hardy = 3 WAR

That means if the A’s can get 1 WAR from two pitchers they use in place of Gallagher and Outman they come out ahead.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:02 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't see any way the Brewers trade Hardy without first exploring FA options at pitcher.

He was probably their best player last year other than Sabathia. If they were to trade him, I don’t see them doing it without Cahill or Anderson being involved, or at least Gallagher AND Gio.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:13 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

See my comment a ways down for an idea - possible?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Braun?

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.

by baetown415 on Dec 27, 2008 12:51 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd definitely do the trade for Hu in a heartbeat

I think the A’s are giving up too much for Barmes, because Barmes is a big question mark with his history of injury, inconsistency, and his now not-young age of 30. I think that with a trade chip of Mazzaro’s caliber, the A’s need a more definite upgrade.

I’d do the Gio based trade for Hardy, but I don’t think the Brewers would. The Gallagher based one is fair and while Gallagher is on my semi-untouchable list (key part of future success), he’s not on my actually untouchable list (which is Cahill and Anderson), so I’d have to bite the bullet and go for that one.

Tejada is probably missing from your list because he has only one year left on his contract, but I think he’s every bit the option these guys are. He would give the A’s a better chance to win in 2009, because he’s comparable to Crosby defensively and is still a significant upgrade offensively (I’m envisioning around a .750 OPS). He buys you a year to continue hunting for a longer-term solution and he could be signed to a one-year extension if things go well. This has nothing to do with nostalgia – he’s just among very few acceptable SS solutions for 2009 and while he is no longer a great hitter he is still a good one.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 8:43 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tejada isn't missing, he's just not a long term option

When Barmes played SS for the Rockies in 2005 he scored very well with the defensive metrics. It basically comes down to do you believe in his ability to make enough contact over the next 3 years? I don’t have an answer to that but I think CHONE is underestimating him versus Crosby.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:08 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Overpaying

  Barmes is another crosby so i would never trade any valuable player for him. The rockies already have a good SS so they don’t want any part of Crosby. Barmes could be easily had for Dallas Braden. Even that might be giving up to much for him.

by Arcman on Dec 26, 2008 2:56 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you're under-estimating the situation

The Rockies have Barmes penciled in to be their starting 2B next year because they aren’t sure if EY2 is ready. So Barmes is a starting position player with under team control for 3 years… with that in mind I don’t think my suggested offer is too much out of line.

Now, you’re right, the Rockies don’t need Crosby to play SS if Tulo is healthy. What Crosby (at a $1.25 million salary to the Rockies) represents is insurance in case their young 2B prospects aren’t ready. There’s no reason Crosby shouldn’t be able to convert to the other side of the IF.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 26, 2008 3:11 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I di notice that

  Barmes and Baker will compete for 2b but they are more of the same type of players so maybe trading a 2b prospect like patterson would be more realistic in getting him. I’m just not real high on Barmes as our answer.

by Arcman on Dec 26, 2008 3:43 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what it do baby hu!!

as far as what the A’s would have to give up and not touch the prospect depth, that seems like the best deal

dodgers will have lost 2/5th’s of their rotation and closer from last yr + billingsley has a broken leg, they nontendered proctor.

so theyre in the market to fill those pitching needs

by Asfan4ever723 on Dec 26, 2008 8:52 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Honestly, if I were the Dodgers I wouldn't settle for Casilla

Hu is expendable and is a “sell low” prospect, but he’s also a major-league ready SS in a seller’s market for SSs and Casilla had elbow problems last year followed by utter ineffectiveness.

If I were LAD and were looking for pitching in exchange for Hu, I’d ask about Ziggy or Braden at the major league level, or about Carignan or Demel at the minor league level. Am I off base here?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 9:14 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You continue to exaggerate how bad Casilla was in the second half of last year

He was kinda meh after his injury, but you act like he wast the worst pitcher in the history of organized baseball or something.

by thejd44 on Dec 26, 2008 9:16 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, he was very bad

Casilla’s post-DL stats: 25 IP, 41 hits, 13 BB, for a WHIP of 2.16 (and a 6.84 ERA). That’s “not getting people out” at a clip that can only be described as terrible.

Throw out his three appearances in June when he first came back and his July-Sept stats still show 23 IP, 34 hits, 13 BB, for a WHIP of 2.04 (and a 4.70 ERA).

I have nothing against the guy – he just pitched terribly after his injury, no exaggeration.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 9:39 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Collectively, we all were.

Even AN. We were bad the second half of 2008.

I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico

by Leopold Bloom on Dec 26, 2008 2:30 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

cassilla

interesting that a good amount of A’s fans were willing to dump street over cassilla’s great start to last season and hand him the closer’s job

i’d have no issue giving up braden

indians had a pretty good relief prospect in meloan and threw him in the blake deal

by Asfan4ever723 on Dec 26, 2008 9:22 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I could see them asking for Braden

I just figured with Billingsley/Kershaw/Kuroda, plus maybe Schmidt coming back or McDonald stepping up, they didn’t really need SP. I could have called Colletti to ask but I’m not speaking to the prick after he sent me a fruit cake for Christmas. (No, not monkeyball an actual fruitcake.)

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:13 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know that I would do both of them.

Not because it’s overpaying, but because I think it hurts the pitching staff too much in 2009 to lose Gallagher and Outman.

by mikev on Dec 26, 2008 2:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Whoa, that Barmes trade is insane

I’m not sure Barmes is better than Crosby. No way i send them two pitching prospects, too. Barmes really isn’t very good. I wasn’t aware that he was a plus defender, though he might be. Barmes is likely more like his 2006/2007 production than his 2008 production. Oh, and Barmes has never actually been a starting shortstop for a full season. No thanks.

I would do the deal if it was Crosby/Barmes straight up, but why would Colorado want another shortstop when they’re unloading Barmes because they have Tulo? But I do I like Hardy and Hu would be fine if he can be had on the cheap.

by thejd44 on Dec 26, 2008 9:15 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To be fair

Barmes 2008 production is a lot like his 2005 production, when he was the Rockies starting SS and he posted very good defensive metrics.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:15 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m not sure Barmes is even worth as much as Hu right now, awful year and all. Payroll flexibility for mid market teams has become increasingly valuable, and, judging by Holliday, there may be a depressed trade market for Colorado position players.

I do agree that Brrmes would be solid, and would be pleased with his acquisition, I just think you’re over estimating the cost of acquiring Barmes and underestimating the cost of Hu.

by NRC on Dec 26, 2008 2:17 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You could be right

I just think that Hu’s got nowhere to go in LA and DeJesus is pushing from behind, there’s a good chance he ends up on the bench. In that case a bullpen arm should more than cover the cost.

I think.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 26, 2008 3:13 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

DeJesus might end up a 2B, pushing DeWitt to 3B

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

cubs ronny cedeno

he may profile similar to penny/petit, but maybe mishandled, not used properly by cubs…up and down between AAA/mlb and i believe out of options next season.

they seem to be in the market for OF’s, and with their cf options reed johnson, pie, etc…could maybe denorfia interest them?

by Asfan4ever723 on Dec 26, 2008 9:32 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Word in Chicago is that Lou is not thrilled about Theriot's SS defense.

I could actually see the Cubs doing a Crosby/Cedeno swap, and I’d do that straightup (if nothing else, the A’s save money). That would allow the Cubs to move Theriot to second, and DeRosa could play his supersub role.

by thejd44 on Dec 26, 2008 10:37 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If the Cubs were willing to do a Crosby/Cedeno swap,

wouldn’t they have claimed Crosby off of waivers and hung onto Cedeno?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 10:56 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also, at MI, Fontenot, Derosa, Theriot, Cedeno, plus...

they have SS capable players on the farm in Flaherty, Lee, Castro, etc. They would definitely trade Cedeno away but they won’t want Crosby.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Dec 26, 2008 4:25 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So could they please trade the A's one of those capable SSs?

C’mon, I said please.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:26 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They probably would.

They just won’t want Crosby.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Dec 26, 2008 5:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

From among Flaherty, Lee, and Castro,

who do you think is the best match for Oakland? (Considerations like major league ready, good future, will stick at SS, etc.)

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 5:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

none are mlb ready

flaherty was drafted last yr just like coleman/christian…flaheerty maybe 2b long term

castro is an 18 yr ld in rookie ball

by Asfan4ever723 on Dec 26, 2008 10:18 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I figured there was a reason I hadn't heard about them lately

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 27, 2008 9:18 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hardy is the only choice I would even start to consider

Hu is publicly overpriced by the Dodgers and he would essentially be in his rookie season. If A’s fans have been mostly upset with Crosby’s bat, prepare for more of the same with Hu. He is not a major league hitter, and I can guarantee if the A’s nab him we will be back here next year asking why we made this deal.
Barmes is a prime example of the product of Coors:
Career OPS at home: .808
Career OPS away: .606
i dunno where you got that he’s a significant upgrade over Crosby with the bat, but I don’t see it.
Hardy- I would really like to see him on the A’s but I’m not ready to give away Gallagher. I really think Beane could match up a good trade with the Brewers and he’s expendable, so to some extent he may be available. While of course I wouldn’t give up Cahill, Anderson, or Carter, I wouldn’t mind Beane overpaying a bit (perhaps in quantity over quality) to get a very good SS who we could hold on to AT LEAST another 2-3 years.

In general, Hardy might be the only name I would touch right now, because he’s young and proven. We keep mentioning all these AAAA players, and if the A’s are legitimately trying to compete, that should be the last thing on our minds…

by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 9:50 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He hasn’t used that phrase, but the Brewers GM has more or less said that he his looking for quality over quantity.

by Lovejoy on Dec 26, 2008 10:08 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hardy's defense is VERY good

I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to project him as a 4-5 win upgrade over Crosby; however, I see little reason for the Brewers to part company with him. Those trade proposals are good, but I wouldn’t take either one if I were Milwaukee. I think Joey Devine’s name would have enter into the discussions.

by CapgrasDelusion on Dec 26, 2008 10:03 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dewan's +/- system really like Hardy, especially to his left

Would the Brewers be interested in those packages? I think they’re shopping hard for SP and those proposals offer them quality big league ready/almost ready arms. If they’d rather have Devine instead of a SP that could be discussed but they aren’t going to get all 3 arms.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:18 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Disaster?

How in the world was it a disaster? Cuz Furcal didnt sign with us at the winter meetings it was a disaster, hahaha. And we cant sign anyone now or something, isnt it a little early to call the latest effort for the A’s in free agency a disaster. Try not to look at everything at half empty.

by pbra17 on Dec 26, 2008 10:07 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Except that the Brewers really want and need him.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:18 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Except the Brewers, as is, just aren't poised to win

with Hardy, given the current state of their pitching.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:25 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They would be if they re-signed Sheets

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:34 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No doubt

As would Oakland, if the A’s signed him!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:40 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Brewers can already hit.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:54 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This my point is!

When you have plenty of hitting and too little pitching you need to…deal some offense to improve your pitching.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:58 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe, but why your best player?

Why not Gamel or Fielder or Hart or someone else more expendable?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 5:02 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Demand

In Hardy, the Brewers have what others desperately seek. Gamel may not live up the initial hype, Fielder is expensive and troublingly big-boned, and neither can field well. Hart would interest teams but he plays a much easier position to fill.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 5:08 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

All of which means I'd rather sign Hardy long term than trade him if I were Melvin

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 5:25 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just saw that Pettite may be available

How about sign Pettite to a one year deal for that all important veteran presence on the pitching staff?

I dream of Fremont and rainbows

by OptimistPrime on Dec 26, 2008 10:57 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There's a recent fanpost on that you can check out

I wonder what kind of deal super-headcase Juan Cruz will get. I just can’t let go of the Hudson trade!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 10:58 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ivan DeJesus

http://thebaseballcube.com/players/D/Ivan-De-Jesus.shtml

Any chance this guy could take over SS in 2009? It would definitely be pushing things offensively, but he seems ready defensively… the bat will probably come around.

The fit is there. There’s trade History. I’m not sure what it would take… Gio Gonzalez for DeJesus?

by Colorado Fan on Dec 26, 2008 11:14 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd much rather him than Hu

but again, lets let beggers be choosers and actually try and get an MLB ready guy to give us an offensive boost next year…

by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 11:54 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are we really winning it all next year with Hu, Hardy, or Barmes? I say we we move forward knowing our SS is going to be horrible in 2009, and try to really compete in 2010-2015. This whole, “Win it Now” philosophy could really hurt the A’s down the road when it really matters, especially when it’s not feasible to win with a Starting Rotation of Duke, Gallagher, Eveland, etc…

I guess this all comes back to the Holliday Trade. I’m not a believer, and I think it would be in the team’s best interest to try and trade for players that can help this team from 2010-2015. You can probably get close to equal value – CarGon, Greg Smith, Street – and send Holliday to the team that can give you equal value in return.

by Colorado Fan on Dec 26, 2008 12:18 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, but we sure look real good on paper with Hardy and payroll flexibility to perhaps sign another "B" level FA

The point is, Beane’s looking at the division and seeing nothing from the Mariners, mild improvement, if any from the Rangers, and some significant losses from the Angels. He sees a real chance to win the division and make it to the playoffs, where let’s face it, it’s been a real tossup for the last few years. That aside, if a move could be made to get the shortstop of the future without losing guys who are seen as the most valuable assets to the team at a later time. There is no one in the farm ready before 2010 at the very earliest (more likely 2011), and the free agent class has no one next year. Therefore, unless Pennington or Petit show sudden ability to hit big league pitching, the only way to acquire a SS is via trade.
        So, if we could get a Hardy, or even more amazing would be Hanley Ramirez, for Simmons or Mazzaro and change (good change), then why not get that special kind of player.

by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 1:01 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What you say,

“if a move could be made to get the shortstop of the future without losing guys who are seen as the most valuable assets to the team at a later time,” is exactly why trading for Tejada makes sense to me. It combines him with Holliday in the “go for it” 2009 attempt without costing a premium prospect that would hurt the team in the future.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 2:49 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Here's the flaw in your trade Holliday plan

(And I’m not blaming you for this, Beane put the A’s in this position.)

There aren’t many teams with a SS or SS prospect to spare that are actively seeking a 1 year rental player like Holliday. Beane had a much better chance of landing Hardy (for example) if he still had Smith/Street/CarGon as opposed to Holliday. Cheap pitching is always the best trade currency.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:24 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rays?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:19 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who, Bartlett?

Brignac is sketch.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 26, 2008 4:50 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Either, but I agree that neither is awesome.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:54 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It doesn't really make sense, does it?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 27, 2008 3:18 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nico. This is a possible answer to a short one sentence retort question.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 27, 2008 3:40 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It really doesn't make sense, does it?

Just practicing!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 27, 2008 9:18 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Long run, Brignac >> Bartlett

I’m not a Bartlett fan at all; he’s league-average at best and has no upside beyond that.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 26, 2008 7:42 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Colorado Fand and I are on the same page.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Dec 26, 2008 1:24 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Har-har!

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Dec 27, 2008 6:44 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think DeJesus is ready

Just as important, Beane has already expressed interest in DeJesus and I think Colletti would use that against the A’s in a negotiation.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:20 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tejada might make sense in that case.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:20 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And what to do in 2010?

Cots doesn’t have a list of 2011 FA’s and I’m not doing the legwork to compile my own.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 27, 2008 1:32 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They'd have to trade for a A+/AA prospect.

or sign a FA, like Miguel Tejada, Marco Scutaro or Bobby Crosby.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 27, 2008 3:21 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My kid is running a fever, so I'm not getting much sleep tonight

Are you trying to piss me off?

Do you want me to hate you?

Re-sign Bobby Crosby?!?!

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 27, 2008 3:37 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You have no idea how hard I'm laughing right now.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 27, 2008 3:39 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

would you give up gio/gallagher for him?

dejesus ranked 102 on sickles community list, but probably couldve went around top 80

by Asfan4ever723 on Dec 26, 2008 10:20 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I vote for....

Whatever we can do to upgrade our SS situation going into 2009 and beyond with costing us Cahill/Anderson.

by bdemartin on Dec 26, 2008 1:10 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would hardly call this years Free Agency a disaster!

Holliday will be awesome for us this year. He may also have a positive affect on Crosby, you never know. I still say this is all Beane’s psychological plan to light a spark under Crosby’s tuchas and it is working. Shipping off CGON was also a message, in that players unwilling to learn or take direction will be traded. Huge improvement from Crosby this year, and A’s win the AL West. Believe! GO A’S!

by A'sfansince1970 on Dec 26, 2008 1:30 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hu or Vizquel

  we might as well take a year of Vizquel which wouldn’t cost us a thing or trade Crosby and Petit to pitts for Wilson. Hu is defense only so not a gem.

by Arcman on Dec 26, 2008 2:58 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

please don't say Vizquel's name around here

it’s rude.
Actually, in my only experience around him he was a dick, so I don’t want him around.

by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 6:01 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What if you didn't have to talk to him?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 6:05 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not possible

but in all seriousness, he is in no way an upgrade over Crosby.

by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 6:57 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i disagree that SS is the critical area

its possible to win a title with a terrible SS (see 2007 red sox). that might be a terrible example. but here’s what im getting at: i dont think think that barmes/hu are big enough upgrades to improve the a’s significantly and hardy costs to much imo. there is a huge shortange of shortstops around the league, and while having a good one would be a huge huge huge plus, not having one doesnt break our backs either. everyone knows we (and a lot of other teams) need a SS, so they will cost more than they are worth.

my idea: find a 3b. i dont know how or where. but say chavez sucks/is injured. then we have our solution there. and if chavez is good? move one or the other to 1B, and give barton some time in AAA (assuming he could still use it).

i would like to end this by saying i just pulled this straight out of my ass, so if it made no sense, im not shocked

"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"

by travdog6 on Dec 26, 2008 3:05 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

mdotm

medical diagnosis of the month. sounds pleasant. i hope were not speaking from experience

"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"

by travdog6 on Dec 26, 2008 3:33 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

WE?!?

Like you and grover together?
i really hope you (we’re) not speaking from experience…

by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 6:03 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i dont appreciate you judging us with that tone

but no we have not done that together. using we is just a way to support him

"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"

by travdog6 on Dec 26, 2008 6:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

come on, it's all in good fun!

I didn’t mean to offend you.
Sorry buddy…

by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 7:00 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"Don't take that tone with me!"

he said, on the Internet.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 7:42 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

haha i know im just kidding

but really if i ever injure myself pulling something out of my ass (or if an a’s player does) i expect full support

"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"

by travdog6 on Dec 26, 2008 7:43 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hopefully it won't come out in the press

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 7:43 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well you should put newspapers down first

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 7:46 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh definitely, you should stop reading

when something like that happens.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 7:47 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Another reason to get a 3Bman is that

if Chavez moved to 1B it would protect his shoulder. Getting Giambi, for example, doesn’t offer that plan B in case Chavez plays well but his shoulder starts to hurt a bit part-way into the season.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thank you for finally putting up a post with a trade scenario for J.J Hardy, grover!

I was gonna put one together but the holidays have taken away most of my spare time the last couple of days.

Of the two proposed deals on the table for Hardy, I"m more in line with the one headed by Gio Gonzalez. I don’t think Beane is gonna be willing to deal Gallagher so soon after trading Harden for him, mid season. In theory you could maybe swap James Simmons for SG or another relief arm in AAA, or Casilla even.

Sans…….Simmons, Outman, Gio-/or Casilla. Go A’s!

Bring Hardy to Oaktown Billy!!!!!!!

by mrod on Dec 26, 2008 3:40 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Welcome

I’m sure you could also try the bulk approach in landing Hardy but that takes more typing on my part.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 26, 2008 3:48 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or maybe you just need to replace one kind of quality with another

Wouldn’t the Brewers likely be interested in Cardenas, for example, as a 2B/3B prospect? Would they deal Hardy without getting Cahill or Anderson if they could get Mazzaro and Cardenas as centerpieces, along with, say, one each of Outman/Braden and Carignan/Demel?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:15 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

All this makes a bit of sense if the Brewers are rebuilding, but why would they rebuild now?

Why not just go after a FA pitcher, or even Sheets?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think the Brewers need to rebuild,

because their rotation is thin and their bullpen is worse. They need to turn a little of their veteran offense into a lot of good young pitching, IMO.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:27 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why not just re-sign Sheets?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:35 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Sheets has some say in that

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:40 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm impressed with his positive outlook. He'll say YES!

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:55 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's not going back to the Brewers.

Melvin is playing a waiting game and Sheets is going to get a better offer.
I think they have already moved on from him and he will probably sign with the Rangers or someone willing to give him a few years…
They really are in no position to contend, but if they do make some moves they could look real solid. Gallardo has enormous potential if he stays healthy, and guys like Hart and Fielder are around for the long haul, IMO, but Hardy is expendable, especially if they can get some more solid pitching…

by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 6:07 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If they made the playoffs last year, and Gallardo has enormous potential

why are they in no position to contend?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 6:19 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Because Manny Parra might be their #2 starter?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 7:43 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not if they dump Cameron and sign Sheets

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 7:46 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's fine, but you seem to be the only person

who thinks that’s going to happen. Imagine that CC and Sheets are gone and then evaluate the Brewers.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 7:48 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I see a team with a much better position player core than Oakland,

that also:

1) has salary budget to spend — witness the offer to CC — and is trying to free up more (Cameron to NY)
2) has extra guys to trade in Gamel/Fielder, Cameron/Cain and Kendall/Salome/Lucroy
3) has an ace pitcher in Gallardo and a decent #3 in Parra
4) has decent back of the rotation types in Suppan, Bush and Villanueva (who can also be a swingman)

Their holes are #2 starter — which can be filled through FA or trade, and bullpen, which is also doable the same way.

I may be alone at AN in thinking the Brewers are easily more of a contender than the A’s, but I’d be surprised if any Brewer fan thought that. BrewCrewBall thinks they’re signing a FA starter. BrewerUpdate thinks they might have an interest in Kevin Millwood. BrewersBar sees them overhauling the bullpen on the cheap (as they should). Their Official Site thinks they’re in on Fuentes.

Who outside of AN thinks the Brewers are rebuilding?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 9:57 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kevin Millwood?

That right there screams rebuilding.

by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 11:56 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

are ... probably not ... should be ...

Fielder is pretty overrated (though still good), Braun is good to very good and Hardy is good … aside from them, you have young guys who have never performed in MLB and guys who aspire to be average … (assuming they are successful in moving Cameron and acknowledging that I am selling Weeks short, he is average …)

Yovani Gallardo could be sick … or his arm could fall off … calling Parra a 3 is optimistic and, if your rotation is anchored by a guy who has thrown 134-1/3 innings in the bigs over two seasons and your second best pitcher is a five inning starter, you need a strong bullpen and starting depth, neither of which can the Brewers claim …

Don’t get me wrong, if things break right, they could contend … but they’re in a tougher division than the A’s and I doubt they’re a better team …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 27, 2008 12:03 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So you'd tear down and rebuild again. The fans

don’t want to wait another 26 years!

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 27, 2008 3:22 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fielder – good
Braun – good to very good
Hardy – good

I think right there, you will rarely get agreement. I’d take Parra any time over Gallagher and what do you think he is, a 2 or 3?

Their offense will be almost completely as you describe. For the bench they’re going with rookies and rejuvenation shots like Trot Nixon as Dillon and Kapler were. What’s your guess at number of runs scored next year?

by Lovejoy on Dec 27, 2008 6:51 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The real question is:

So you’d take Parra over Gallagher every time, but would you take Gallagher + Outman + Alcides Escobar over Hardy?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 27, 2008 11:04 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hear you

and I don’t know. Its at least a sensible proposition rather than virtually all fan trade proposals.

by Lovejoy on Dec 27, 2008 1:18 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That rotation is pretty weak

Suppan isn’t very good and they don’t trust Bush. Gallardo is good but young. They could have signed Sheets by now if both sides were interested in that happening. Which other FA SP are worth the investment?

Lowe, maybe? Oliver Perez?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 27, 2008 1:30 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Seems to me like Oliver Perez

will end up re-signing with the Mets. I just don’t se him getting the kind of money he’s looking for in this market. But, he remains a possibility till the dust settles. If I’m the Brewers, I’d seriously consider a package of A’s prospects, (pitchers mostly of course), for a trade of Hardy. I really feel like all things considered, the A’s have the right pieces to fit Milwaukee’s needs and vice versa.

by mrod on Dec 27, 2008 1:39 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Suppan and Bush aren't good but they just have to

eat innings with 92-95 ERA+ or some such thing.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 27, 2008 3:23 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe, if they land the #2 SP you're talking about

So if they don’t land Derek Lowe, what next?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 27, 2008 3:39 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my guess

Sheets wants something like 3 years/45 million or thereabouts. The Brewers would take him back for 1 or maybe even 2 at the same rate. I think a team would be smart to sign him to the 3 year contract, but so far the only team that is reported to have shown interest is the Rangers. Melvin and he talk occassionally. Is that just because they’re friends? It definitely could be. The Brewers did offer him arbitration.

I don’t think Lowe is interested in coming here and I don’t think Perez is much of a prize and I believe they are both Boras clients.

by Lovejoy on Dec 27, 2008 7:00 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think the bullpen is bad at all

No big name closer as you say though. I’d say that turning veteran offense into good young pitching is their idea as well. I can’t really say on all the prospects people suggest. If the org thinks any of them are likely front line starters maybe it could happen. Unless its a pretty good pitcher, I’d rather they wait till at least the trade deadline and get by with free agents.

by Lovejoy on Dec 26, 2008 4:49 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They may want to trade Cameron first.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:55 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Possible

Really need to get someone with a Brewers’ bias in on that discussion.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 26, 2008 4:52 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what would we have to give up for...

Hanley Ramirez?

that's gold jerry, gold!!!

by 9Custs on Dec 26, 2008 5:15 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well for starters, we'd have to give up

the notion that we had solved our SS problem. Rimshot! He should probably be playing elsewhere.

But to answer your question, Cahill/Anderson could not be spared in a Hanley deal, I don’t think, and the rest of the package would hurt too.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 5:24 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Another 24 superstar who's among the five best baseball players in the world?

Do we have any of those lying around?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 5:26 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would love to get Hanley...

I know his defense is apparently horrible (I saw him in Oakland this summer, but otherwise I’m not one of 600 Marlins fans), but you can’t deny that he hits like a bad motherfucker.
I think you can teach a guy with his instincts and speed to play some defense, but you can’t get a hitter of his caliber but every 10 years…

by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 6:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well we can supplement your personal observation of his defense with numbers and other fans' observations

UZR says he improved from -17.8 to -1.1 between 2007 and 2008

Marlin watchers who participated in Tango’s Fan Scouting Reportproject rated him a 63 in 2008, which is above average on the 20-80 scale, compared to a 50 in 2007.

Maybe they’ve already been teaching this guy with speed and instincts to play defense.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 6:29 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

there should be some term to distinguish

between guys who are limited in their fielding abilities and guys who can make great plays but have a higher than average boot/fumble/airmail rate. Ramirez is the latter. He isn’t lacking in fielding skills unless consistency is considered one.

by Lovejoy on Dec 27, 2008 7:04 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

tigers got miguel cabrera

and they didnt give up one

that's gold jerry, gold!!!

by 9Custs on Dec 26, 2008 7:19 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cameron Maybin's not chopped liver.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 7:23 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They gave up Miller and Maybin

BA ranked Maybin as the 8th best prospect in baseball at the time of the trade, and Miller was ranked 11th in 2007.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 27, 2008 1:09 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not sold on Gio

Based on what I saw this year, I’d rather give him up to acquire a SS (or 3B) while his value is still high. I think his control is way too inconsistent for someone with a fastball topping out in the low 90’s. I think it’ll benefit Gio the most to move to the NL where I think he could be very good.

by rightbackin on Dec 26, 2008 6:56 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Given the small sample of last season

I think he could ideally be as good as Zito (Oakland version) was when he was on, but I worry he’ll turn up to be a Zito (Giants version) mostly. Many of his pitches were too much over the plate, even during missed swings, but the league will catch up very quickly, if he continues to miss his spots.

With this inconsistency, I see him being more of a #3 or even #4 (not exactly sure on expectations for each position), teasing with #1 potential but giving #5 performances too many times. But hey, maybe he improves this control/consistency next season and I’ll look dumb(er).

by rightbackin on Dec 26, 2008 7:32 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

#3 or #4 isn't bad

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 7:43 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not a huge Gio fan, but I would remind folks

that when you see guys like Gallagher and Gio pitch in the major leagues at 22 years old, you have to project their future performance more than just judge their present performance.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 7:45 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Beane was willing to pay Flake-cal...

$10 miilion a season for four years to upgrade at SS. Crosby would still be making his $5+ million no matter what. That was a hypothetical $15 million for the SS position in 2009 if Flake-cal had signed.

Your last suggestion of dealing $4 million plus two pitching prospects and Crosby in order to get Hardy’s P-WAR = 2.1/2.5/3/3.5 [whatever P-WAR means] maybe a good deal.

Then again, what would the Athletics get if it dedicated the $10 million that it had intended to spend on Flake-cal this year and $15 million next year [Flake-cal was not signed and Crosby would be gone — thus saving $10+5 million — allowing for a 2/25 deal to another player] dabbling in the market for a FA SP? Would Croby’s P-WAR plus the P-WAR of the signed FA SP be equal to or greater than those numbers [whatever the hell they mean] you have listed for Hardy? I ask because if they are equal to or greater, you get the same or better P-WAR without losing the pitching propects.

Besides, the Athletics will probably need those prospects to address the hole at SS if no one emerges and the hole that will be coming at 3B once Chavez’s contract ends.

by LowcountryJoe on Dec 26, 2008 8:09 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If anyone knows what the Angels are doing with Wood, please let me know

I’m sure Donald will make a fine 2B.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 27, 2008 1:05 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There are rumors of Wood being their 3B with a Figgins trade.

I’ll believe it when I see it.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 27, 2008 3:24 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I really don't think SS is the biggest deficiency...

I am really not as much of a stathead as many posters, but seriously folks. The Crosby-hate has blinded many to the point that they have completely neglected the fact that the A’s 2009 rotation does not even begin to resemble a playoff contender. Duch, Gallagher, Eveland, Gio, Braden?? Injury risk, high potential youngster, did he really fix it all in the trip back to sacto, got beat around in 2008, and bullpen/rotation perennial flip-flopper??

THE 2009 OAKLAND A’S NEED A VETERAN STARTING PITCHER!!!

The prospects (Cahill, Anderson, Mazzaro, Outman, etc.) simply aren’t ready and the results could prove disastrous if they are pushed to fast. It could make the whole rebuilding plan truly moot if these guys don’t become the next big 3, and to be honest my enthusiasm seems a bit more tempered than most in this regard. Some prospects just don’t pan out no matter how well they project (though I do believe Anderson WILL be a stud, no doubt about it).

Letting Crosby play out the last year of his contract is certainly not the worst thing that could happen, as the A’s have upgraded the lineup elsewhere, and have some nice high upside finger-crossings in Buck, and Barton bounce-backs.

But lets get serious people, the 2009 rotation is the biggest whole on this team, and though I know I haven’t mentioned individuals, I figured that ought to be the debate, so discuss!…

"Just looking at Lackey's face, you just want to beat him" -Ray Fosse

by marco magic on Dec 27, 2008 6:49 AM PST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

You're right. It's a problem. But it's a problem with possible good solutions in the minors.

SS doesn’t even have that.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 27, 2008 7:13 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think of it as triage

SS is the gaping, bloody hole that if you don’t patch you’ll bleed out and die.

Heading into the offseason the A’s had several problems in the line-up. 3B, SS, 2B, 1B, LF and DH to be specific.

The A’s are counting on Chavez to make 3B better. Whether or not that move works remains to be seen but they’ve made their play.

The A’s re-signed Ellis and one of the best posters on the site wrote this to explain how good that move will be if he’s healthy.

Daric Barton should do better at 1B, but his struggles are also why the A’s have talked to Jason Giambi.

LF is in the capable hands of Matt Holliday. His arrival allows the A’s to bump Cust to DH. It is imperative that Buck and Sweeney produce in RF and CF, respectively but if one should struggle they’re backed by Cunningham.

SS… has the same guy who’s failed to produce repeatedly. Neither Petit or Pennington, the next two on the organizational depth chart, have shown that they can hit. Sellers hasn’t shown he can hit. Cardenas hasn’t proven he can play the position. Horton has questions with the bat and the glove. That covers every legit option the A’s have through High-A ball. The best FA options have all signed elsewhere. SS isn’t just a 2009 problem, the failure to develop an internal replacement could affect the A’s for the next 2-3 years if they don’t go out and find someone new.

I agree that the current rotation is weak but that’s not a situation that should last for long. There are quality FA options (Lowe, Perez, Sheets) that the A’s could still pursue and they have a plethora of young arms in the high minors that should be ready in the next 12-18 months.

And I can’t help but feel that since I do loath Crosby and I wrote this article that you’ve got me in mind when you accuse folks of being blinded by the situation at SS. I spent a great deal of time arguing that once the A’s signed Furcal they needed to turn around and sign Randy Johnson to bolster the rotation. I’m also currently weighing the comments of another poster to decide if I want to argue for the acquisition of Roy Halladay. So if I am one of those people you feel has neglected the rotation, please rest assured that you are wrong.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 27, 2008 10:52 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The rotation is better than it gets credit for

See, the problem is that people consistently fail to evaluate the impact of the A’s defense and park on the numbers of those guys. The A’s have a #2 starter, 2 #3s, and 2 #4s— a slightly below-average rotation— but their average ERA is likely to be somewhere around 4.0-4.1. Which makes it superficially above average by quite a good deal.

You really need to evaluate everything in context to get the correct picture of the team.

This isn’t to say that signing another starter would be dumb— I think Gio in particular needs more work, whether in the bullpen or in Sacramento— just that the rotation is not a sucking wound the way shortstop is.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 27, 2008 11:34 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what's the cliche?

A SS is a pitcher’s best friend… or maybe a CF.

by Lovejoy on Dec 27, 2008 1:21 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A SS is a CF?

I doubt that.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 27, 2008 1:23 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Panic Is Unproductive

If there isn’t an obvious move then do nothing. A reasonable solution will present itself. A bad idea requires a lot of thought.

by Ran on Dec 27, 2008 8:32 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

AAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!

WHAT IF YOU’RE RIGHT???

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 27, 2008 9:24 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Of what you posted, I like Hardy best, by far.

I’d be surprised if we can get him for that little, but if we can, do it before Melvin has a chance to reconsider. Way too much to give up for Barmes, and I’d just as soon give Petit or Pennington a chance over Hu, since they cost nothing.

I disagree with the notion that placing Crosby on waivers was a desperate budget move, or harbinger of doom to such a degree. I think the A’s have decided that Bobby Crosby is never going to be good at baseball, and they should get rid of him as soon as possible. They’ve done this enough now that I’m pretty sure when they dump someone for nobody in return (e.g., Kennedy, Loaiza), they do it because they’d just as soon not tie up a minor-league roster spot with someone who’s never going to make it anyway.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Dec 27, 2008 9:22 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you misunderstood what I was calling desperate about placing Crosby on waivers

It was desperate in that there was a maybe 1% chance, if that, of someone being interested in picking up Crosby’s full $5.25 million contract in this economy. They took a shot in the dark and hoped that someone would be dumb enough to take him off their hands.

The A’s are going to have to eat a large chunk of his salary to move him, at least this way they might get a decent prospect in the exchange ala Kotsay and Kendall. Thing is, I think this year the A’s are more interested in the $4 million or so it’ll cost him to ship him off then they are the decent prospect. And they are certainly interested in whatever savings they can scrounge by trading him instead of releasing him and being on the hook for the full $5.25 million.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 27, 2008 11:00 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

veteran starters

Our position players are a nice mix of youth(rebuilding) and veterans. I agree with holding in general, until the market for giambi develops, while actively pursuing a healthy, veteran, starting pitcher, who will cost no more than 7 million ANnually. Once a veteran’s ERA gets into the 4.50 range, we seemingly can get that performance from a braden or equivalent.
Innings pitched in 08:
     outman-124 B. Anderson-105 (+olympic team?)
     gallagher -144 Cahill-124
     Gio-157 Simmons-136
     Duke-141 mazzaro-171 (154-2007)
     Braden-125
it appears prudent to only allow 20% increase in innings. I don’t see a successful, consistent rotation for 2009 here. We need to eat more innings at < 4.20 era to hedge for injuries and perhaps a prospect taking a small step back.

by greenpaddedgloves on Dec 27, 2008 9:24 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Getting a veteran starter is still a very good idea, and could be more important to the team’s success next year than the position players being mentioned.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Dec 27, 2008 9:41 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree with the sentiment, the problem is in the execution

Randy Johnson was one of the few SP on the FA market that came close to matching your parameters and he’s now a Giant. Well, he’s always been rather tall but… now its official.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 27, 2008 11:02 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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