OK, so Plan A didn't work, on to Plan B! There is a Plan B... right?
After the disaster that was the A’s most recent foray into free agency, we need to re-evaluate where the team stands. Shortstop remains a hole in the line-up and possibly in the field. 1st base would be almost as bad if it weren’t for the not-completely-unfounded hope that Daric Barton can be a productive big leaguer next year. We’re counting on Eric Chavez and Mark Ellis to return from injury and perform at some reasonable semblance of their former selves. Buck and Sweeney have potential, but they’ve had problems staying healthy and don’t exactly have a track record of consistency. The rotation is long on potential but short on experience, the depth of options is nice but the best young arms might not be ready to blossom until 2010.
We’ve already heard Beane exclaim that his 2009 budget has shrunk in light of the current economic crunch. What we don’t know is how badly his cash flow has been impacted. Up until a few weeks ago posters like myself, PaulThomas and Zonis (basically, the guys who like to throw different roster variations up against the wall) were basing our suggestions on a budget of up to $85 million dollars. This number was based on the A’s 2007 spending habits and included player salaries and amateur signing bonuses. It seems likely that that number has shrunk. The A’s currently have approximately $51 million invested in the big league roster and the belated attempt to place Bobby Crosby on outright waivers signals a desperate attempt to free up more cash in an effort to make another move. This suggests to me that the A’s might have lost up to 20% of their original expected budget, or roughly $17 million. Keeping in mind that the A’s probably don’t want to cut into their amateur signing bonus moneys (that should be around $7 million, which I got by taking last year’s expenditures and subtracting the bulk of Inoa’s record setting bonus… c’mon, how many once-in-a-decade prospects can the A’s sign in a 12 month period?) it seems to me that the A’s probably have between $61-63 million that they can spend on the big league roster. That means Beane has $10-12 million to play with.
Low Cost/Low Reward Potential
Medium Cost/Medium Reward Potential
High Cost/High Reward Potential
Hardy is in his prime and is set to make between $4.5-5 million in arbitration. He’s also, as I noted above, two years away from FA. It would be my intention to sit him down and hammer out a 3 year/$24 million contract (7/8/9) to buy out his 1st year of FA eligibility and keep him in
Those are your options, go ahead and speak your piece.
1 recs |
175 comments
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Comments
Hardy,
is he really going to outproduce Crosby plus Gallhager, plus Outman? Seems highly unlikely. Give me Hu.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Dec 26, 2008 8:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I was just looking at it
and wondering what value there was for the Brewers. I’ve seen a fair amount of Gallagher. I wonder what the view on his ceiling is – I guess I don’t see it that high. I’ve never seen Outman, but just perusing his stats and A’s page, he doesn’t look like much of an addition if any at all.
by Lovejoy on Dec 26, 2008 8:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Gallagher has a decent chance to be a #2 starter
though in 2009 he should not be counted on being that good. He was rushed a bit, plus he had a tired arm last year. His ceiling is high, though, and I think “Gallagher plus” could make for a very fair deal from Milwaukee’s POV.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 9:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but from what I saw, he looked like a significantly lesser pitcher. He’s sure to have been heavily scouted and evaluated by the Brewers though.
I’d say there was also potential for being a really bad trade as well.
by Lovejoy on Dec 26, 2008 9:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You just saw him at his worst
First he was nervous trying to make a good impression and then his arm didn’t feel good. He’s still raw, but his control is better than he showed with Oakland and what you saw was from a 22 year old pitching in the big leagues. If his arm is ok, I think he’ll be a very good pitcher in 2010 at the latest.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 9:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to jump into a pre-existing argument,
(Hello, I’d like an argument)
but I think it’s also safe to say that part of Gallaghers’ problem is inexperience as well, no? He’s 22, and my impressions of him from last year were cautiously optimistic. He made mistakes, yes, but correctable ones, I thought.
I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 26, 2008 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Brewers really need pitching, having lost Sheets and Sabs to FA
Smith gives Bush the highest score among current Brewer pitchers and Milwaukee tried to push him into the bullpen last season.
For Outman, you basically need to go back and look at his 2007 numbers. The Phillies really screwed up by trying to convert him to the bullpen last year.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can miss the obvious
but who is Smith and what score among pitchers do you speak of?
For guys like Outman, I would think it would depend on what they know about him and what they expect.
by Lovejoy on Dec 26, 2008 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sean Smith
He of the CHONE projections, found here: www.baseballprojection.com
by CapgrasDelusion on Dec 26, 2008 4:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll go out on a limb – Bush having the highest Chone number doesn’t mean much.
by Lovejoy on Dec 27, 2008 6:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i really like outman
but i would take hardy for him a gallagher in an instant. we have enough young pitching even without those two guys
that's gold jerry, gold!!!
by 9Custs on Dec 26, 2008 5:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't be too sure - how good will the A's be in 2009
if their rotation is Duchscherer, Eveland, Braden, Gio Gonzalez, and, um…?
And how good will the A’s be in 2010 if Holliday leaves while Cahill and Anderson are just getting their feet wet?
These could wind up being the “middle ground” scenarios Beane has warned of (and usually followed).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's add up the numbers
An average-gloved Crosby (1.1) plus Gallagher (1.5) plus Outman (.7) = 3.3 WAR
And average-gloved Hardy = 2.5 WAR
Above average-gloved Hardy = 3 WAR
That means if the A’s can get 1 WAR from two pitchers they use in place of Gallagher and Outman they come out ahead.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see any way the Brewers trade Hardy without first exploring FA options at pitcher.
He was probably their best player last year other than Sabathia. If they were to trade him, I don’t see them doing it without Cahill or Anderson being involved, or at least Gallagher AND Gio.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
See my comment a ways down for an idea - possible?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Braun?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Dec 27, 2008 12:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd definitely do the trade for Hu in a heartbeat
I think the A’s are giving up too much for Barmes, because Barmes is a big question mark with his history of injury, inconsistency, and his now not-young age of 30. I think that with a trade chip of Mazzaro’s caliber, the A’s need a more definite upgrade.
I’d do the Gio based trade for Hardy, but I don’t think the Brewers would. The Gallagher based one is fair and while Gallagher is on my semi-untouchable list (key part of future success), he’s not on my actually untouchable list (which is Cahill and Anderson), so I’d have to bite the bullet and go for that one.
Tejada is probably missing from your list because he has only one year left on his contract, but I think he’s every bit the option these guys are. He would give the A’s a better chance to win in 2009, because he’s comparable to Crosby defensively and is still a significant upgrade offensively (I’m envisioning around a .750 OPS). He buys you a year to continue hunting for a longer-term solution and he could be signed to a one-year extension if things go well. This has nothing to do with nostalgia – he’s just among very few acceptable SS solutions for 2009 and while he is no longer a great hitter he is still a good one.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 8:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Tejada isn't missing, he's just not a long term option
When Barmes played SS for the Rockies in 2005 he scored very well with the defensive metrics. It basically comes down to do you believe in his ability to make enough contact over the next 3 years? I don’t have an answer to that but I think CHONE is underestimating him versus Crosby.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Overpaying
Barmes is another crosby so i would never trade any valuable player for him. The rockies already have a good SS so they don’t want any part of Crosby. Barmes could be easily had for Dallas Braden. Even that might be giving up to much for him.
by Arcman on Dec 26, 2008 2:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're under-estimating the situation
The Rockies have Barmes penciled in to be their starting 2B next year because they aren’t sure if EY2 is ready. So Barmes is a starting position player with under team control for 3 years… with that in mind I don’t think my suggested offer is too much out of line.
Now, you’re right, the Rockies don’t need Crosby to play SS if Tulo is healthy. What Crosby (at a $1.25 million salary to the Rockies) represents is insurance in case their young 2B prospects aren’t ready. There’s no reason Crosby shouldn’t be able to convert to the other side of the IF.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 3:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I di notice that
Barmes and Baker will compete for 2b but they are more of the same type of players so maybe trading a 2b prospect like patterson would be more realistic in getting him. I’m just not real high on Barmes as our answer.
by Arcman on Dec 26, 2008 3:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To each their own, and it appears as if most of AN agrees with you
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 3:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what it do baby hu!!
as far as what the A’s would have to give up and not touch the prospect depth, that seems like the best deal
dodgers will have lost 2/5th’s of their rotation and closer from last yr + billingsley has a broken leg, they nontendered proctor.
so theyre in the market to fill those pitching needs
by Asfan4ever723 on Dec 26, 2008 8:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, if I were the Dodgers I wouldn't settle for Casilla
Hu is expendable and is a “sell low” prospect, but he’s also a major-league ready SS in a seller’s market for SSs and Casilla had elbow problems last year followed by utter ineffectiveness.
If I were LAD and were looking for pitching in exchange for Hu, I’d ask about Ziggy or Braden at the major league level, or about Carignan or Demel at the minor league level. Am I off base here?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 9:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You continue to exaggerate how bad Casilla was in the second half of last year
He was kinda meh after his injury, but you act like he wast the worst pitcher in the history of organized baseball or something.
by thejd44 on Dec 26, 2008 9:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, he was very bad
Casilla’s post-DL stats: 25 IP, 41 hits, 13 BB, for a WHIP of 2.16 (and a 6.84 ERA). That’s “not getting people out” at a clip that can only be described as terrible.
Throw out his three appearances in June when he first came back and his July-Sept stats still show 23 IP, 34 hits, 13 BB, for a WHIP of 2.04 (and a 4.70 ERA).
I have nothing against the guy – he just pitched terribly after his injury, no exaggeration.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 9:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Collectively, we all were.
Even AN. We were bad the second half of 2008.
I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 26, 2008 2:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
cassilla
interesting that a good amount of A’s fans were willing to dump street over cassilla’s great start to last season and hand him the closer’s job
i’d have no issue giving up braden
indians had a pretty good relief prospect in meloan and threw him in the blake deal
by Asfan4ever723 on Dec 26, 2008 9:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I could see them asking for Braden
I just figured with Billingsley/Kershaw/Kuroda, plus maybe Schmidt coming back or McDonald stepping up, they didn’t really need SP. I could have called Colletti to ask but I’m not speaking to the prick after he sent me a fruit cake for Christmas. (No, not monkeyball an actual fruitcake.)
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Out of these options, I'd take Hardy for the Gio/Mazzaro/Crosby package
by mikev on Dec 26, 2008 9:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
And if the Brewers said Gallagher/Outman?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know that I would do both of them.
Not because it’s overpaying, but because I think it hurts the pitching staff too much in 2009 to lose Gallagher and Outman.
by mikev on Dec 26, 2008 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa, that Barmes trade is insane
I’m not sure Barmes is better than Crosby. No way i send them two pitching prospects, too. Barmes really isn’t very good. I wasn’t aware that he was a plus defender, though he might be. Barmes is likely more like his 2006/2007 production than his 2008 production. Oh, and Barmes has never actually been a starting shortstop for a full season. No thanks.
I would do the deal if it was Crosby/Barmes straight up, but why would Colorado want another shortstop when they’re unloading Barmes because they have Tulo? But I do I like Hardy and Hu would be fine if he can be had on the cheap.
by thejd44 on Dec 26, 2008 9:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
Barmes 2008 production is a lot like his 2005 production, when he was the Rockies starting SS and he posted very good defensive metrics.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure Barmes is even worth as much as Hu right now, awful year and all. Payroll flexibility for mid market teams has become increasingly valuable, and, judging by Holliday, there may be a depressed trade market for Colorado position players.
I do agree that Brrmes would be solid, and would be pleased with his acquisition, I just think you’re over estimating the cost of acquiring Barmes and underestimating the cost of Hu.
by NRC on Dec 26, 2008 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You could be right
I just think that Hu’s got nowhere to go in LA and DeJesus is pushing from behind, there’s a good chance he ends up on the bench. In that case a bullpen arm should more than cover the cost.
I think.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
DeJesus might end up a 2B, pushing DeWitt to 3B
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
cubs ronny cedeno
he may profile similar to penny/petit, but maybe mishandled, not used properly by cubs…up and down between AAA/mlb and i believe out of options next season.
they seem to be in the market for OF’s, and with their cf options reed johnson, pie, etc…could maybe denorfia interest them?
by Asfan4ever723 on Dec 26, 2008 9:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Word in Chicago is that Lou is not thrilled about Theriot's SS defense.
I could actually see the Cubs doing a Crosby/Cedeno swap, and I’d do that straightup (if nothing else, the A’s save money). That would allow the Cubs to move Theriot to second, and DeRosa could play his supersub role.
by thejd44 on Dec 26, 2008 10:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If the Cubs were willing to do a Crosby/Cedeno swap,
wouldn’t they have claimed Crosby off of waivers and hung onto Cedeno?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, at MI, Fontenot, Derosa, Theriot, Cedeno, plus...
they have SS capable players on the farm in Flaherty, Lee, Castro, etc. They would definitely trade Cedeno away but they won’t want Crosby.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Dec 26, 2008 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So could they please trade the A's one of those capable SSs?
C’mon, I said please.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They probably would.
They just won’t want Crosby.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Dec 26, 2008 5:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
From among Flaherty, Lee, and Castro,
who do you think is the best match for Oakland? (Considerations like major league ready, good future, will stick at SS, etc.)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 5:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
none are mlb ready
flaherty was drafted last yr just like coleman/christian…flaheerty maybe 2b long term
castro is an 18 yr ld in rookie ball
by Asfan4ever723 on Dec 26, 2008 10:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I figured there was a reason I hadn't heard about them lately
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 27, 2008 9:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hardy is the only choice I would even start to consider
Hu is publicly overpriced by the Dodgers and he would essentially be in his rookie season. If A’s fans have been mostly upset with Crosby’s bat, prepare for more of the same with Hu. He is not a major league hitter, and I can guarantee if the A’s nab him we will be back here next year asking why we made this deal.
Barmes is a prime example of the product of Coors:
Career OPS at home: .808
Career OPS away: .606
i dunno where you got that he’s a significant upgrade over Crosby with the bat, but I don’t see it.
Hardy- I would really like to see him on the A’s but I’m not ready to give away Gallagher. I really think Beane could match up a good trade with the Brewers and he’s expendable, so to some extent he may be available. While of course I wouldn’t give up Cahill, Anderson, or Carter, I wouldn’t mind Beane overpaying a bit (perhaps in quantity over quality) to get a very good SS who we could hold on to AT LEAST another 2-3 years.
In general, Hardy might be the only name I would touch right now, because he’s young and proven. We keep mentioning all these AAAA players, and if the A’s are legitimately trying to compete, that should be the last thing on our minds…
by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 9:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
He hasn’t used that phrase, but the Brewers GM has more or less said that he his looking for quality over quantity.
by Lovejoy on Dec 26, 2008 10:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hardy's defense is VERY good
I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to project him as a 4-5 win upgrade over Crosby; however, I see little reason for the Brewers to part company with him. Those trade proposals are good, but I wouldn’t take either one if I were Milwaukee. I think Joey Devine’s name would have enter into the discussions.
by CapgrasDelusion on Dec 26, 2008 10:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Dewan's +/- system really like Hardy, especially to his left
Would the Brewers be interested in those packages? I think they’re shopping hard for SP and those proposals offer them quality big league ready/almost ready arms. If they’d rather have Devine instead of a SP that could be discussed but they aren’t going to get all 3 arms.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Disaster?
How in the world was it a disaster? Cuz Furcal didnt sign with us at the winter meetings it was a disaster, hahaha. And we cant sign anyone now or something, isnt it a little early to call the latest effort for the A’s in free agency a disaster. Try not to look at everything at half empty.
by pbra17 on Dec 26, 2008 10:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think those are fair offers for Hardy
by Josh Deletchi on Dec 26, 2008 10:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Except that the Brewers really want and need him.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Except the Brewers, as is, just aren't poised to win
with Hardy, given the current state of their pitching.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They would be if they re-signed Sheets
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt
As would Oakland, if the A’s signed him!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Brewers can already hit.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This my point is!
When you have plenty of hitting and too little pitching you need to…deal some offense to improve your pitching.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe, but why your best player?
Why not Gamel or Fielder or Hart or someone else more expendable?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 5:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Demand
In Hardy, the Brewers have what others desperately seek. Gamel may not live up the initial hype, Fielder is expensive and troublingly big-boned, and neither can field well. Hart would interest teams but he plays a much easier position to fill.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All of which means I'd rather sign Hardy long term than trade him if I were Melvin
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just saw that Pettite may be available
How about sign Pettite to a one year deal for that all important veteran presence on the pitching staff?
I dream of Fremont and rainbows
by OptimistPrime on Dec 26, 2008 10:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
There's a recent fanpost on that you can check out
I wonder what kind of deal super-headcase Juan Cruz will get. I just can’t let go of the Hudson trade!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ivan DeJesus
http://thebaseballcube.com/players/D/Ivan-De-Jesus.shtml
Any chance this guy could take over SS in 2009? It would definitely be pushing things offensively, but he seems ready defensively… the bat will probably come around.
The fit is there. There’s trade History. I’m not sure what it would take… Gio Gonzalez for DeJesus?
by Colorado Fan on Dec 26, 2008 11:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'd much rather him than Hu
but again, lets let beggers be choosers and actually try and get an MLB ready guy to give us an offensive boost next year…
by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Are we really winning it all next year with Hu, Hardy, or Barmes? I say we we move forward knowing our SS is going to be horrible in 2009, and try to really compete in 2010-2015. This whole, “Win it Now” philosophy could really hurt the A’s down the road when it really matters, especially when it’s not feasible to win with a Starting Rotation of Duke, Gallagher, Eveland, etc…
I guess this all comes back to the Holliday Trade. I’m not a believer, and I think it would be in the team’s best interest to try and trade for players that can help this team from 2010-2015. You can probably get close to equal value – CarGon, Greg Smith, Street – and send Holliday to the team that can give you equal value in return.
by Colorado Fan on Dec 26, 2008 12:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but we sure look real good on paper with Hardy and payroll flexibility to perhaps sign another "B" level FA
The point is, Beane’s looking at the division and seeing nothing from the Mariners, mild improvement, if any from the Rangers, and some significant losses from the Angels. He sees a real chance to win the division and make it to the playoffs, where let’s face it, it’s been a real tossup for the last few years. That aside, if a move could be made to get the shortstop of the future without losing guys who are seen as the most valuable assets to the team at a later time. There is no one in the farm ready before 2010 at the very earliest (more likely 2011), and the free agent class has no one next year. Therefore, unless Pennington or Petit show sudden ability to hit big league pitching, the only way to acquire a SS is via trade.
So, if we could get a Hardy, or even more amazing would be Hanley Ramirez, for Simmons or Mazzaro and change (good change), then why not get that special kind of player.
by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 1:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What you say,
“if a move could be made to get the shortstop of the future without losing guys who are seen as the most valuable assets to the team at a later time,” is exactly why trading for Tejada makes sense to me. It combines him with Holliday in the “go for it” 2009 attempt without costing a premium prospect that would hurt the team in the future.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 2:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the flaw in your trade Holliday plan
(And I’m not blaming you for this, Beane put the A’s in this position.)
There aren’t many teams with a SS or SS prospect to spare that are actively seeking a 1 year rental player like Holliday. Beane had a much better chance of landing Hardy (for example) if he still had Smith/Street/CarGon as opposed to Holliday. Cheap pitching is always the best trade currency.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rays?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who, Bartlett?
Brignac is sketch.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Either, but I agree that neither is awesome.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So you want to trade Holliday for non-awesome
Why?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 27, 2008 1:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't really make sense, does it?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 27, 2008 3:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nico. This is a possible answer to a short one sentence retort question.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 27, 2008 3:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It really doesn't make sense, does it?
Just practicing!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 27, 2008 9:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Long run, Brignac >> Bartlett
I’m not a Bartlett fan at all; he’s league-average at best and has no upside beyond that.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 26, 2008 7:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Colorado Fand and I are on the same page.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
by Monday Fan on Dec 26, 2008 1:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure you're even using the same dictionary
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Har-har!
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
by Monday Fan on Dec 27, 2008 6:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think DeJesus is ready
Just as important, Beane has already expressed interest in DeJesus and I think Colletti would use that against the A’s in a negotiation.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 1:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tejada might make sense in that case.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And what to do in 2010?
Cots doesn’t have a list of 2011 FA’s and I’m not doing the legwork to compile my own.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 27, 2008 1:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They'd have to trade for a A+/AA prospect.
or sign a FA, like Miguel Tejada, Marco Scutaro or Bobby Crosby.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 27, 2008 3:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My kid is running a fever, so I'm not getting much sleep tonight
Are you trying to piss me off?
Do you want me to hate you?
Re-sign Bobby Crosby?!?!
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 27, 2008 3:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You have no idea how hard I'm laughing right now.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 27, 2008 3:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
would you give up gio/gallagher for him?
dejesus ranked 102 on sickles community list, but probably couldve went around top 80
by Asfan4ever723 on Dec 26, 2008 10:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
gio+gallagher?
No.
Gio or Gallagher? Yes.
by Colorado Fan on Dec 27, 2008 10:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I vote for....
Whatever we can do to upgrade our SS situation going into 2009 and beyond with costing us Cahill/Anderson.
by bdemartin on Dec 26, 2008 1:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I would hardly call this years Free Agency a disaster!
Holliday will be awesome for us this year. He may also have a positive affect on Crosby, you never know. I still say this is all Beane’s psychological plan to light a spark under Crosby’s tuchas and it is working. Shipping off CGON was also a message, in that players unwilling to learn or take direction will be traded. Huge improvement from Crosby this year, and A’s win the AL West. Believe! GO A’S!
by A'sfansince1970 on Dec 26, 2008 1:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Make sure you get Nico his pony.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 2:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hu or Vizquel
we might as well take a year of Vizquel which wouldn’t cost us a thing or trade Crosby and Petit to pitts for Wilson. Hu is defense only so not a gem.
by Arcman on Dec 26, 2008 2:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
please don't say Vizquel's name around here
it’s rude.
Actually, in my only experience around him he was a dick, so I don’t want him around.
by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What if you didn't have to talk to him?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 6:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not possible
but in all seriousness, he is in no way an upgrade over Crosby.
by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 6:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i disagree that SS is the critical area
its possible to win a title with a terrible SS (see 2007 red sox). that might be a terrible example. but here’s what im getting at: i dont think think that barmes/hu are big enough upgrades to improve the a’s significantly and hardy costs to much imo. there is a huge shortange of shortstops around the league, and while having a good one would be a huge huge huge plus, not having one doesnt break our backs either. everyone knows we (and a lot of other teams) need a SS, so they will cost more than they are worth.
my idea: find a 3b. i dont know how or where. but say chavez sucks/is injured. then we have our solution there. and if chavez is good? move one or the other to 1B, and give barton some time in AAA (assuming he could still use it).
i would like to end this by saying i just pulled this straight out of my ass, so if it made no sense, im not shocked
"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"
by travdog6 on Dec 26, 2008 3:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
But you could go into shock if you caused soft tissue damage in the process
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
mdotm
medical diagnosis of the month. sounds pleasant. i hope were not speaking from experience
"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"
by travdog6 on Dec 26, 2008 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
WE?!?
Like you and grover together?
i really hope you (we’re) not speaking from experience…
by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 6:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i dont appreciate you judging us with that tone
but no we have not done that together. using we is just a way to support him
"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"
by travdog6 on Dec 26, 2008 6:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
come on, it's all in good fun!
I didn’t mean to offend you.
Sorry buddy…
by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 7:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"Don't take that tone with me!"
he said, on the Internet.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 7:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
haha i know im just kidding
but really if i ever injure myself pulling something out of my ass (or if an a’s player does) i expect full support
"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"
by travdog6 on Dec 26, 2008 7:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully it won't come out in the press
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 7:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well you should put newspapers down first
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 7:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh definitely, you should stop reading
when something like that happens.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 7:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Another reason to get a 3Bman is that
if Chavez moved to 1B it would protect his shoulder. Getting Giambi, for example, doesn’t offer that plan B in case Chavez plays well but his shoulder starts to hurt a bit part-way into the season.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for finally putting up a post with a trade scenario for J.J Hardy, grover!
I was gonna put one together but the holidays have taken away most of my spare time the last couple of days.
Of the two proposed deals on the table for Hardy, I"m more in line with the one headed by Gio Gonzalez. I don’t think Beane is gonna be willing to deal Gallagher so soon after trading Harden for him, mid season. In theory you could maybe swap James Simmons for SG or another relief arm in AAA, or Casilla even.
Sans…….Simmons, Outman, Gio-/or Casilla. Go A’s!
Bring Hardy to Oaktown Billy!!!!!!!
by mrod on Dec 26, 2008 3:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Welcome
I’m sure you could also try the bulk approach in landing Hardy but that takes more typing on my part.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 3:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or maybe you just need to replace one kind of quality with another
Wouldn’t the Brewers likely be interested in Cardenas, for example, as a 2B/3B prospect? Would they deal Hardy without getting Cahill or Anderson if they could get Mazzaro and Cardenas as centerpieces, along with, say, one each of Outman/Braden and Carignan/Demel?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All this makes a bit of sense if the Brewers are rebuilding, but why would they rebuild now?
Why not just go after a FA pitcher, or even Sheets?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Brewers need to rebuild,
because their rotation is thin and their bullpen is worse. They need to turn a little of their veteran offense into a lot of good young pitching, IMO.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why not just re-sign Sheets?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Sheets has some say in that
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm impressed with his positive outlook. He'll say YES!
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not going back to the Brewers.
Melvin is playing a waiting game and Sheets is going to get a better offer.
I think they have already moved on from him and he will probably sign with the Rangers or someone willing to give him a few years…
They really are in no position to contend, but if they do make some moves they could look real solid. Gallardo has enormous potential if he stays healthy, and guys like Hart and Fielder are around for the long haul, IMO, but Hardy is expendable, especially if they can get some more solid pitching…
by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 6:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If they made the playoffs last year, and Gallardo has enormous potential
why are they in no position to contend?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 6:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Because Manny Parra might be their #2 starter?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 7:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not if they dump Cameron and sign Sheets
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 7:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's fine, but you seem to be the only person
who thinks that’s going to happen. Imagine that CC and Sheets are gone and then evaluate the Brewers.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 7:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I see a team with a much better position player core than Oakland,
that also:
1) has salary budget to spend — witness the offer to CC — and is trying to free up more (Cameron to NY)
2) has extra guys to trade in Gamel/Fielder, Cameron/Cain and Kendall/Salome/Lucroy
3) has an ace pitcher in Gallardo and a decent #3 in Parra
4) has decent back of the rotation types in Suppan, Bush and Villanueva (who can also be a swingman)
Their holes are #2 starter — which can be filled through FA or trade, and bullpen, which is also doable the same way.
I may be alone at AN in thinking the Brewers are easily more of a contender than the A’s, but I’d be surprised if any Brewer fan thought that. BrewCrewBall thinks they’re signing a FA starter. BrewerUpdate thinks they might have an interest in Kevin Millwood. BrewersBar sees them overhauling the bullpen on the cheap (as they should). Their Official Site thinks they’re in on Fuentes.
Who outside of AN thinks the Brewers are rebuilding?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 9:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Millwood?
That right there screams rebuilding.
by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 11:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
are ... probably not ... should be ...
Fielder is pretty overrated (though still good), Braun is good to very good and Hardy is good … aside from them, you have young guys who have never performed in MLB and guys who aspire to be average … (assuming they are successful in moving Cameron and acknowledging that I am selling Weeks short, he is average …)
Yovani Gallardo could be sick … or his arm could fall off … calling Parra a 3 is optimistic and, if your rotation is anchored by a guy who has thrown 134-1/3 innings in the bigs over two seasons and your second best pitcher is a five inning starter, you need a strong bullpen and starting depth, neither of which can the Brewers claim …
Don’t get me wrong, if things break right, they could contend … but they’re in a tougher division than the A’s and I doubt they’re a better team …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Dec 27, 2008 12:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So you'd tear down and rebuild again. The fans
don’t want to wait another 26 years!
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 27, 2008 3:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fielder – good
Braun – good to very good
Hardy – good
I think right there, you will rarely get agreement. I’d take Parra any time over Gallagher and what do you think he is, a 2 or 3?
Their offense will be almost completely as you describe. For the bench they’re going with rookies and rejuvenation shots like Trot Nixon as Dillon and Kapler were. What’s your guess at number of runs scored next year?
by Lovejoy on Dec 27, 2008 6:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The real question is:
So you’d take Parra over Gallagher every time, but would you take Gallagher + Outman + Alcides Escobar over Hardy?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 27, 2008 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you
and I don’t know. Its at least a sensible proposition rather than virtually all fan trade proposals.
by Lovejoy on Dec 27, 2008 1:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That rotation is pretty weak
Suppan isn’t very good and they don’t trust Bush. Gallardo is good but young. They could have signed Sheets by now if both sides were interested in that happening. Which other FA SP are worth the investment?
Lowe, maybe? Oliver Perez?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 27, 2008 1:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Seems to me like Oliver Perez
will end up re-signing with the Mets. I just don’t se him getting the kind of money he’s looking for in this market. But, he remains a possibility till the dust settles. If I’m the Brewers, I’d seriously consider a package of A’s prospects, (pitchers mostly of course), for a trade of Hardy. I really feel like all things considered, the A’s have the right pieces to fit Milwaukee’s needs and vice versa.
by mrod on Dec 27, 2008 1:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Suppan and Bush aren't good but they just have to
eat innings with 92-95 ERA+ or some such thing.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 27, 2008 3:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe, if they land the #2 SP you're talking about
So if they don’t land Derek Lowe, what next?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 27, 2008 3:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
my guess
Sheets wants something like 3 years/45 million or thereabouts. The Brewers would take him back for 1 or maybe even 2 at the same rate. I think a team would be smart to sign him to the 3 year contract, but so far the only team that is reported to have shown interest is the Rangers. Melvin and he talk occassionally. Is that just because they’re friends? It definitely could be. The Brewers did offer him arbitration.
I don’t think Lowe is interested in coming here and I don’t think Perez is much of a prize and I believe they are both Boras clients.
by Lovejoy on Dec 27, 2008 7:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the bullpen is bad at all
No big name closer as you say though. I’d say that turning veteran offense into good young pitching is their idea as well. I can’t really say on all the prospects people suggest. If the org thinks any of them are likely front line starters maybe it could happen. Unless its a pretty good pitcher, I’d rather they wait till at least the trade deadline and get by with free agents.
by Lovejoy on Dec 26, 2008 4:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They seem hesitant to invest in Sheets
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 26, 2008 4:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They may want to trade Cameron first.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 4:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what would we have to give up for...
Hanley Ramirez?
that's gold jerry, gold!!!
by 9Custs on Dec 26, 2008 5:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Well for starters, we'd have to give up
the notion that we had solved our SS problem. Rimshot! He should probably be playing elsewhere.
But to answer your question, Cahill/Anderson could not be spared in a Hanley deal, I don’t think, and the rest of the package would hurt too.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Another 24 superstar who's among the five best baseball players in the world?
Do we have any of those lying around?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 5:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to get Hanley...
I know his defense is apparently horrible (I saw him in Oakland this summer, but otherwise I’m not one of 600 Marlins fans), but you can’t deny that he hits like a bad motherfucker.
I think you can teach a guy with his instincts and speed to play some defense, but you can’t get a hitter of his caliber but every 10 years…
by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 6:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well we can supplement your personal observation of his defense with numbers and other fans' observations
UZR says he improved from -17.8 to -1.1 between 2007 and 2008
Marlin watchers who participated in Tango’s Fan Scouting Reportproject rated him a 63 in 2008, which is above average on the 20-80 scale, compared to a 50 in 2007.
Maybe they’ve already been teaching this guy with speed and instincts to play defense.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 6:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
there should be some term to distinguish
between guys who are limited in their fielding abilities and guys who can make great plays but have a higher than average boot/fumble/airmail rate. Ramirez is the latter. He isn’t lacking in fielding skills unless consistency is considered one.
by Lovejoy on Dec 27, 2008 7:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
tigers got miguel cabrera
and they didnt give up one
that's gold jerry, gold!!!
by 9Custs on Dec 26, 2008 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cameron Maybin's not chopped liver.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 7:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They gave up Miller and Maybin
BA ranked Maybin as the 8th best prospect in baseball at the time of the trade, and Miller was ranked 11th in 2007.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 27, 2008 1:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sold on Gio
Based on what I saw this year, I’d rather give him up to acquire a SS (or 3B) while his value is still high. I think his control is way too inconsistent for someone with a fastball topping out in the low 90’s. I think it’ll benefit Gio the most to move to the NL where I think he could be very good.
by rightbackin on Dec 26, 2008 6:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
What's his value?
In your opinion…
by stranahanahan on Dec 26, 2008 6:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Given the small sample of last season
I think he could ideally be as good as Zito (Oakland version) was when he was on, but I worry he’ll turn up to be a Zito (Giants version) mostly. Many of his pitches were too much over the plate, even during missed swings, but the league will catch up very quickly, if he continues to miss his spots.
With this inconsistency, I see him being more of a #3 or even #4 (not exactly sure on expectations for each position), teasing with #1 potential but giving #5 performances too many times. But hey, maybe he improves this control/consistency next season and I’ll look dumb(er).
by rightbackin on Dec 26, 2008 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
#3 or #4 isn't bad
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 26, 2008 7:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a huge Gio fan, but I would remind folks
that when you see guys like Gallagher and Gio pitch in the major leagues at 22 years old, you have to project their future performance more than just judge their present performance.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 26, 2008 7:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not bad
But far more expendable to me than Gallagher.
by rightbackin on Dec 26, 2008 7:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Beane was willing to pay Flake-cal...
$10 miilion a season for four years to upgrade at SS. Crosby would still be making his $5+ million no matter what. That was a hypothetical $15 million for the SS position in 2009 if Flake-cal had signed.
Your last suggestion of dealing $4 million plus two pitching prospects and Crosby in order to get Hardy’s P-WAR = 2.1/2.5/3/3.5 [whatever P-WAR means] maybe a good deal.
Then again, what would the Athletics get if it dedicated the $10 million that it had intended to spend on Flake-cal this year and $15 million next year [Flake-cal was not signed and Crosby would be gone — thus saving $10+5 million — allowing for a 2/25 deal to another player] dabbling in the market for a FA SP? Would Croby’s P-WAR plus the P-WAR of the signed FA SP be equal to or greater than those numbers [whatever the hell they mean] you have listed for Hardy? I ask because if they are equal to or greater, you get the same or better P-WAR without losing the pitching propects.
Besides, the Athletics will probably need those prospects to address the hole at SS if no one emerges and the hole that will be coming at 3B once Chavez’s contract ends.
by LowcountryJoe on Dec 26, 2008 8:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The two names I am interested in are Jason Donald and Brandon Wood
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Dec 27, 2008 12:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
If anyone knows what the Angels are doing with Wood, please let me know
I’m sure Donald will make a fine 2B.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 27, 2008 1:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There are rumors of Wood being their 3B with a Figgins trade.
I’ll believe it when I see it.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 27, 2008 3:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't think SS is the biggest deficiency...
I am really not as much of a stathead as many posters, but seriously folks. The Crosby-hate has blinded many to the point that they have completely neglected the fact that the A’s 2009 rotation does not even begin to resemble a playoff contender. Duch, Gallagher, Eveland, Gio, Braden?? Injury risk, high potential youngster, did he really fix it all in the trip back to sacto, got beat around in 2008, and bullpen/rotation perennial flip-flopper??
THE 2009 OAKLAND A’S NEED A VETERAN STARTING PITCHER!!!
The prospects (Cahill, Anderson, Mazzaro, Outman, etc.) simply aren’t ready and the results could prove disastrous if they are pushed to fast. It could make the whole rebuilding plan truly moot if these guys don’t become the next big 3, and to be honest my enthusiasm seems a bit more tempered than most in this regard. Some prospects just don’t pan out no matter how well they project (though I do believe Anderson WILL be a stud, no doubt about it).
Letting Crosby play out the last year of his contract is certainly not the worst thing that could happen, as the A’s have upgraded the lineup elsewhere, and have some nice high upside finger-crossings in Buck, and Barton bounce-backs.
But lets get serious people, the 2009 rotation is the biggest whole on this team, and though I know I haven’t mentioned individuals, I figured that ought to be the debate, so discuss!…
"Just looking at Lackey's face, you just want to beat him" -Ray Fosse
by marco magic on Dec 27, 2008 6:49 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
You're right. It's a problem. But it's a problem with possible good solutions in the minors.
SS doesn’t even have that.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 27, 2008 7:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think of it as triage
SS is the gaping, bloody hole that if you don’t patch you’ll bleed out and die.
Heading into the offseason the A’s had several problems in the line-up. 3B, SS, 2B, 1B, LF and DH to be specific.
The A’s are counting on Chavez to make 3B better. Whether or not that move works remains to be seen but they’ve made their play.
The A’s re-signed Ellis and one of the best posters on the site wrote this to explain how good that move will be if he’s healthy.
Daric Barton should do better at 1B, but his struggles are also why the A’s have talked to Jason Giambi.
LF is in the capable hands of Matt Holliday. His arrival allows the A’s to bump Cust to DH. It is imperative that Buck and Sweeney produce in RF and CF, respectively but if one should struggle they’re backed by Cunningham.
SS… has the same guy who’s failed to produce repeatedly. Neither Petit or Pennington, the next two on the organizational depth chart, have shown that they can hit. Sellers hasn’t shown he can hit. Cardenas hasn’t proven he can play the position. Horton has questions with the bat and the glove. That covers every legit option the A’s have through High-A ball. The best FA options have all signed elsewhere. SS isn’t just a 2009 problem, the failure to develop an internal replacement could affect the A’s for the next 2-3 years if they don’t go out and find someone new.
I agree that the current rotation is weak but that’s not a situation that should last for long. There are quality FA options (Lowe, Perez, Sheets) that the A’s could still pursue and they have a plethora of young arms in the high minors that should be ready in the next 12-18 months.
And I can’t help but feel that since I do loath Crosby and I wrote this article that you’ve got me in mind when you accuse folks of being blinded by the situation at SS. I spent a great deal of time arguing that once the A’s signed Furcal they needed to turn around and sign Randy Johnson to bolster the rotation. I’m also currently weighing the comments of another poster to decide if I want to argue for the acquisition of Roy Halladay. So if I am one of those people you feel has neglected the rotation, please rest assured that you are wrong.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 27, 2008 10:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The rotation is better than it gets credit for
See, the problem is that people consistently fail to evaluate the impact of the A’s defense and park on the numbers of those guys. The A’s have a #2 starter, 2 #3s, and 2 #4s— a slightly below-average rotation— but their average ERA is likely to be somewhere around 4.0-4.1. Which makes it superficially above average by quite a good deal.
You really need to evaluate everything in context to get the correct picture of the team.
This isn’t to say that signing another starter would be dumb— I think Gio in particular needs more work, whether in the bullpen or in Sacramento— just that the rotation is not a sucking wound the way shortstop is.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 27, 2008 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what's the cliche?
A SS is a pitcher’s best friend… or maybe a CF.
by Lovejoy on Dec 27, 2008 1:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A SS is a CF?
I doubt that.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 27, 2008 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Panic Is Unproductive
If there isn’t an obvious move then do nothing. A reasonable solution will present itself. A bad idea requires a lot of thought.
by Ran on Dec 27, 2008 8:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
AAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!
WHAT IF YOU’RE RIGHT???
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 27, 2008 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Of what you posted, I like Hardy best, by far.
I’d be surprised if we can get him for that little, but if we can, do it before Melvin has a chance to reconsider. Way too much to give up for Barmes, and I’d just as soon give Petit or Pennington a chance over Hu, since they cost nothing.
I disagree with the notion that placing Crosby on waivers was a desperate budget move, or harbinger of doom to such a degree. I think the A’s have decided that Bobby Crosby is never going to be good at baseball, and they should get rid of him as soon as possible. They’ve done this enough now that I’m pretty sure when they dump someone for nobody in return (e.g., Kennedy, Loaiza), they do it because they’d just as soon not tie up a minor-league roster spot with someone who’s never going to make it anyway.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Dec 27, 2008 9:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think you misunderstood what I was calling desperate about placing Crosby on waivers
It was desperate in that there was a maybe 1% chance, if that, of someone being interested in picking up Crosby’s full $5.25 million contract in this economy. They took a shot in the dark and hoped that someone would be dumb enough to take him off their hands.
The A’s are going to have to eat a large chunk of his salary to move him, at least this way they might get a decent prospect in the exchange ala Kotsay and Kendall. Thing is, I think this year the A’s are more interested in the $4 million or so it’ll cost him to ship him off then they are the decent prospect. And they are certainly interested in whatever savings they can scrounge by trading him instead of releasing him and being on the hook for the full $5.25 million.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 27, 2008 11:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
veteran starters
Our position players are a nice mix of youth(rebuilding) and veterans. I agree with holding in general, until the market for giambi develops, while actively pursuing a healthy, veteran, starting pitcher, who will cost no more than 7 million ANnually. Once a veteran’s ERA gets into the 4.50 range, we seemingly can get that performance from a braden or equivalent.
Innings pitched in 08:
outman-124 B. Anderson-105 (+olympic team?)
gallagher -144 Cahill-124
Gio-157 Simmons-136
Duke-141 mazzaro-171 (154-2007)
Braden-125
it appears prudent to only allow 20% increase in innings. I don’t see a successful, consistent rotation for 2009 here. We need to eat more innings at < 4.20 era to hedge for injuries and perhaps a prospect taking a small step back.
by greenpaddedgloves on Dec 27, 2008 9:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I agree with the sentiment, the problem is in the execution
Randy Johnson was one of the few SP on the FA market that came close to matching your parameters and he’s now a Giant. Well, he’s always been rather tall but… now its official.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 27, 2008 11:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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