Bye Bye Matt Holliday.
by Syphon on Dec 23, 2008 3:54 PM PST
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PrintNow that Teixeria has signed with the Yankees for about 22.5 Million dollars per year for 8 years, I think that pretty much seals Holliday's fate in Oakland. Boras will trot him out at the end of the 2009 season and get him a similar deal.
Holliday has a better career BA, OBP, and SLG. However Tex is the better defender, with his Gold Glove D at first base.
So. Now I think Billy Beane must trade Matt around the ASB and finally bring home a top of the line hitting prospect thats close to the MLB level. Or an established MLB bat that is young and cost controlled. I think theres no chance we sign him to an extention. Nor do I think a first round and supplemental first round pick is worth enough for him.
So what say you Athletics Nation? Trade, Keep and let go, or Sign Holliday for 7 years 150 Mil?
For me. If Im Billy Beane and I wanna spend money on the next great A's hitter. I spend it on Holliday. But.. I just dont think we can afford him.
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I don't see 7/$150M being enough -- more like 8/$200M
I’d still do it.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
If ya wanna play wit the big boys,
sometimes you gotta pony up.
It’s similar to “cowboy up” only sexier, and less Kevin Millary.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Lemur at 'im! I'll splat 'im!
"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL
Is that what they say in a Malagasy diner?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Only on AN, among baseball blogs
would there be a reference to Madagascar!
Ad-mire-able!
Officially awaiting the 2009 season.
by One won lost won on Dec 23, 2008 7:52 PM PST up reply actions
Id do it too.
But no way the A’s do. Sad.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
Holliday is more valuable
defensively than Teixiera. There are more guys who can play 1B than LF and Holliday is actually a plus defender in LF when he isn’t making his occasional bonehead play. I agree he’s the perfect kind of guy to sign but am afraid he’ll end up on the east coast for big bucks.
RIVER CATS: AAA CHAMPS!
Take heart. He could go to the Angels and end up on the west coast for big bucks.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2008 4:29 PM PST up reply actions
8/180 for Holliday?
I’d pay more if it meant avoiding a No-Trade clause.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I think it's 8/$200 with a NTC for all the reasons Syphon listed plus an improving economy.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2008 5:00 PM PST up reply actions
they wont sign him
take the 2 picks or trade midseason
beane has a huge opportunity…al west looks winnable if angels stick to their plan of fuentes + internal opttions…they dont scare me
of course angels getting peavy could change plans
Taking the two picks is the absolute dumbest thing the A's could do.
Well, as things stand now.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Exactly.
Would you have traded Gonzalez/Street and Smith for 2 picks? I sure would not. Gotta get a Haren like deal for Holliday.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
Uhhh you can't just leave Matt Holliday out of your equation there
Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's
If we keep him and end up not making the playoffs
then thats essentially what we did. Maybe put a few more butts in the seats. Bout it.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
Agreed
Pony up or get a damn good hull for him.
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
A boat exterior?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2008 5:13 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Dude, we're trying to build a floating stadium
and we’re going to need a little help to get it done.
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
by DMOAS on Dec 23, 2008 6:12 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Shipyards in the doldrums in China
cancelled orders, lotsa open spots.
Certainly we can get it built in segments, floated over….
“Zero interest…no payments until 2015 on all models!!”
Officially awaiting the 2009 season.
by One won lost won on Dec 23, 2008 7:55 PM PST up reply actions
And then refinance!
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2008 8:58 PM PST up reply actions
The last guy the A's had
with a similar combination of bat, age, defense, and athleticism to Holliday was a young Eric Chavez. i think the A’s will try to keep him.
But Chavez wasn't determined to go to FA.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2008 4:58 PM PST up reply actions
he's also ERIC CHAVEZ, MAN OF ASTOUNDING SELF-CONFIDENCE!
I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@
Chavez was willing to sign for 6/66
Holliday is determined to sign for a Tex sized deal.
"We were s--, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 23, 2008 6:30 PM PST up reply actions
It all depends on whether we're competing or not
If we are, why trade him? You need him to compete.
If we’re not, why keep him? Oh, draft picks? No.
I never expected Holliday to stay anyway, so...
…I guess to me it’s just a fait accompli. I would say, if we’re contending in July, keep him. If not, trade him.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
I'm on the fence over whether Beane will try to keep him
But I don’t think he’s going to get (or try to get) 8+ years.
I think 6 is more reasonable and he knows it…
Let’s just hope Boras knows it too
Maybe he gets confused and thinks it's "Name That Tune"?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
because he doesn't play a premium position
there are 3 outfield positions, there’s only 1 1st baseman or shortstop. A corner outfield spot isn’t valued as much. Unless we see a huge boom economically and there’s a lot of teams engaged in a bidding war, I just don’t see it happening. Tex asked for 10 years, got 8. I think Boras will ask for 8 and get him 6.
Plus, Tex is a Gold Glove winner. While Holliday is a great defender, he doesn’t have that title to his name. He’ll get a contract around the 6/120 that the Rockies supposedly offered him.
The point is moot, really, until we see if he is a product of Coors or not. I mean, for all we know, he hits about what he has averaged over his career away from Coors, and then he’s not going to get anywhere near this contract…
by stranahanahan on Dec 23, 2008 8:54 PM PST up reply actions
1B is a premium position? Can't anyone with two arms and two legs play it?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2008 9:00 PM PST up reply actions
Apparently you haven't seen Giambi
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Actually I've never been any good at 1B. I can't catch popups. I was a "career" LF/CF.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2008 10:32 PM PST up reply actions
With all due respect
1B is not as easy as you think. I played there for years, and then moved to catcher. I was glad. Try picking short hops from infieldes who don’t take their time and some guy is coming down the line. Not as easy as you think.
Stomp,em, stomp the piss out of em.Then pound the budweiser after the game. Joe Schultz Seattle Piolts Mgr 1969
by billyball1981 on Dec 24, 2008 6:56 AM PST up reply actions
because, in stranahanahan's fantasy world, Holliday is stupid and not represented by Boras
I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@
Boras is not about being reasonable...
…Boras is all about pushing the limits. Besides, if Tex is worthy of 8 yrs, it’s not unreasonable for Holliday to think he is also.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
Holliday is a very good defensive outfielder. That's worth more than a Gold Glove 1B
by thejd44 on Dec 23, 2008 6:30 PM PST reply actions
I dont know bout that.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
Well nobody "knows" but Tango thinks 1B is worth a half a win less than LF or RF
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/how_to_calculate_war/
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2008 9:01 PM PST up reply actions
hmmm...interesting
I dunno, I could be completely wrong. We’re obviously basing next year’s market on this year’s. Again, there’s really been no “market,” it’s simply been the Yankees monopolizing it to get their grubby hands on who they please.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Holliday get an 8 year deal, but I just don’t think it will happen. I really don’t.
I’ve been wrong before, and I’ll be wrong again. Let’s meet back here next December.
by stranahanahan on Dec 23, 2008 9:39 PM PST up reply actions
After the A's have signed him to a 8 year $200M deal
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2008 10:30 PM PST up reply actions
haha
one can only hope.
Ok, I’ve changed my mind.
I will let Holliday sign for 8 years on one condition: It’s with the A’s.
by stranahanahan on Dec 23, 2008 10:44 PM PST up reply actions
Beane has one chance...
and, only one chance to sign Holliday to an extension. That is, offer him 8 years $220 million, right now… take it or leave it. It’ll be off the table in 5 days. Barring that (which I doubt anybody here thinks will happen), Boras takes him to FA, regardless of who Beane trades him to at mid-season.
Holliday signing with the A’s long-term is a pipedream, people.
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Dec 23, 2008 11:49 PM PST up reply actions
Why can't they make the high bid next Nov-Dec?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 24, 2008 12:27 AM PST up reply actions
well... they could, but, I'm assuming by then...
they’ll have moved on to more realistic acquisitions (i.e. commited they’re money elsewhere). And, how many guys has Beane traded at mid-season, only to buy back the same year?
Has he ever done it?
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Dec 24, 2008 12:31 AM PST up reply actions
yeah, I know... "their"
lol
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Dec 24, 2008 12:33 AM PST up reply actions
Probably not but it would be weirdly brilliant
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 24, 2008 5:03 AM PST up reply actions
Meh
I’d wait till after Christmas before calling Boras to talk numbers.
Although I like the 5 day waiting period you propose, I’m not entirely sure it’s constitutional.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Isn't the point of the 5-day waiting period
assurance that you won’t register a handgun and force them to accept the offer at gunpoint?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No silly. That's why you don't sell them the bullets at the same time.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Some of us know that fact
Officially awaiting the 2009 season.
by One won lost won on Dec 23, 2008 7:56 PM PST up reply actions
But can't find our pants
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
But I know where the A's are
"All your baserunner are belong to Greg Smith" ~ walk off bunt
by Philip Christy on Dec 24, 2008 10:27 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
i would trade holliday before the season even starts*
that’s when his value will be highest because the coliseum won’t have lowered his offensive numbers yet. maybe the red sox will be interested.
*of course i wouldn’t have traded for him in the first place…
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
If Manny doesn't sign with the Dodgers,
I’d hope the A’s consider trading Holliday for Ivan De Jesus Jr., ss, assuming he doesn’t have any huge make-up issues that haven’t been publicized.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 23, 2008 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
umm...
i would want a little more than that. when the indians traded half a year of CC they got matt laporta. i’m not saying we need to replace Holliday with an OF, but we need to get a prospect of that caliber in return, say an escobar or two.
"I think people in this state like BOTH teams," proclaims Nick Aliotti, the Ducks' defensive coordinator. "Except for our hard-core fans, I don't think most Duck fans would have been terribly upset to see Oregon State going to the Rose Bowl."
Another reason he needs to go.
by UOSportsDude on Dec 23, 2008 8:43 PM PST up reply actions
CC had more suitors and a greater market than Holliday will
An elite starting pitcher is a vital upgrade for every team, because they replace a fifth starter. Holliday’s suitors are limited to teams who need a big left field upgrade.
Also, Matt LaPorta has zero defensive/positional value. Ivan De Jesus Jr. – if he’s a great defensive shortstop – has a ton.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 23, 2008 8:58 PM PST up reply actions
The problem with DeJesus is that he might have to move to 2B
From Goldstein
there is some concern that he’ll play his way off of shortstop if he loses a step or two
I’d rather have Hu and make them throw in maybe Gordon and Kuo
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2008 9:05 PM PST up reply actions
And from BA
Badler says:
He has solid arm strength, but 17 of his 26 errors this season came on throws and some observers though he looked more comfortable at second base.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2008 9:09 PM PST up reply actions
nice player, but not a centerpiece for holliday
offensively he’s a high obp, no power guy. basically a good defensive ss version of cardenas
by Asfan4ever723 on Dec 23, 2008 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
So....more useful to the A's than Carlos Gonzalez?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2008 10:31 PM PST up reply actions
Carlos Gonzalez for DeJesus is a brutal trade straight up
Add in Street and Smith and it’s beyond ridiculous.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
it's just too early to tell
it might be, and it might not.
I know where you stand on the Holliday trade – everyone does. And I respect your opinion. But that doesn’t make it fact.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 24, 2008 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
Not really
No one trades a proven reliever, a top 30 prospect, and a fringe starter for a fringe top 100 prospect.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I doubt they'd trade Holliday for DeJesus straight up either.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 24, 2008 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
I think they would
They traded Santana for 3 months of Casey Blake, this is a pretty moran franchise don’t forget
Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's
I meant the A's wouldn't trade Holliday for DeJesus straight up
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 24, 2008 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
No need to worry
Holiday will be worth more in July then now. Boston who has a great minor league team will trade us some good prospects if they need a push so why worry.
That's not where their pencils should be
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ha!
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2008 10:31 PM PST up reply actions
Yankee fans pencil-in everybody into their lineup.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
Good. Then A-Rod would only bat once a year.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 24, 2008 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
We won't sign Holliday this year
I have no idea whether Holliday would consider signing in Oakland or in the AL West (he’s from Oklahoma, so he doesn’t necessarily have ties to either coast). But, the key factor here is that Scott Boras never lets his clients sign before they reach free-agency. Even if we floated an outrageous offer (e.g., the 8-yr, $200M offer that has been proposed above), I wouldn’t be surprised to see Holliday turn it down.
What matters is how much Holliday has bought into the Boras System. Pay$Rod was the #1 All-Time Boras client — willing to sign for top dollar, no matter who happened to be signing the paychecks. Teixeira apparently was also 100% on-board with the Boras System; he just got lucky that the “top bidder” was the Yankees and not the Rangers.
Some players don’t buy into the Boras System: Kenny Rogers fired him a few years back; Andruw Jones ditched him before last season; Jeremy Guthrie fired him after last season. But, if you are on board with Boras, that means you do not sign before you hit the free market.
I agree - I think the only way Oakland would stand a chance
is to say, “We’ll make a 6/140 offer next Winter, and there’s a chance no one else will make more than a 6yr offer next Winter – but right now and only now we’ll make a kick-ass offer of 8/200.” Holliday might be wise to accept that, rather than risk a year of possible injury, a year of possible stat decline (park related), and the likelihood that he won’t ever be offered better than 8/200 anyway.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Except that he may well be offered 8/$200M next year....and probably will be, barring
serious injury or massive economic downturn even from where we are now.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 24, 2008 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
Andruw Jones did not ditch Boras.
Boras is fully responsible for that contract with the Dodgers.
Rogers, Guthrie, A-Rod, and the Danks brothers are some guys who fired/ditched Boras though.
"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."
Agree
I don’t think that’s an unwise course of action. After all, we stand almost no chance of acquiring Holliday through free-agency. Might as well take our shot now, and realize that he’s probably gone if he doesn’t accept our offer. I just don’t think it’s likely to get done. Boras has factored in the likelihood of an injury in his decision to push his players to free-agency, and his players seem to accept the risk of injury for the potential rewards of holding out for free-agency.
As for the eight-year, $200M offer… I’m not even sure I think that’s wise for a guy like Holliday. We’re not the Yankees. Holliday may be worth $25M a year to an organization whose front office people light their cigars with $100-bills, but for us… commiting $25M per year for the next EIGHT YEARS to a corner OF whose probably in his prime right now… I’m not sure that’s a good idea.
That's the problem -
8/200 is probably a bad idea for the A’s. 6/140 probably is a good idea, but won’t be the highest offer next Winter.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It's pretty much true by definition that any "good idea" offers the A's make
will not be the highest offer for any given big-ticket free agents. If it’s a good idea for a small-market team to pay a lot, it’s a good idea for a large-market team to pay even more.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Sooo...what do you guys think is a suited return for a Matt Holliday deadline deal?
"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."
Gee I dunno. What do you think?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 24, 2008 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
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