AN Community Prospect List - #14

Still going with Outman

He’s very close to already being a good #4-5 starter, but he has potential to be better—a solid #3. That’s a valuable prospect to me.

by ervance on Dec 2, 2008 9:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Outman's consistently high BB/IP totals make me nervous

whereas Leon has done everything but pitch as a starter – which I suspect he will do sooner rather than later. Whereas I suspect Outman will settle into a bullpen role and be Embree’s replacement.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 2, 2008 9:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

would be well served by spending next year in AAA as a starter to work on decreasing his walks. IF he is able to this then he should project as a quality MLB starting pitcher. However, if his projected downside is as Embree’s replacement in the bullpen, that’s still a valuable role for the A’s.

I have the highest hopes for Leon, but I want to see him succeed as a SP before I rate him so high.

by ervance on Dec 2, 2008 9:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I actually like Outman

I think his control will probably never be above average and that his fastball doesn’t have enough movement to be more than an Embree/Van Poppel fastball – but Embree (and even Van Poppel) had stretches in their careers where they were very valuable. But as relievers where they could just air it out for a short time and rely on velocity.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 2, 2008 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The problem I have with Outman is that he has a capped ceiling

His control is mediocre, so he’s not going to be a top-tier starter. And he’s a lefty slider pitcher, so he’s unlikely to be particularly effective as a reliever against righties.

Being a lefty is good for his floor but bad for his ceiling, if you follow me.

That said, I’d put him in front of the Medivac brigade. Just not in front of Leon, Dixon or Demel.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2008 10:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I totally understand that, and there's nothing wrong with your rationale.

Having said that, I’m voting for Outman again this round because unlike Leon, Dixon, or Demel (all of whom I like and will be voting for soon, probably in that order but with DLS before Demel) Mr. Outman has already had success at higher levels, including a reasonable showing (for a pitcher who hadn’t played above AA previously) during his AAA and MLB auditions at the end of 2008.

It’s a tough game, this balancing of potential with quantifiable success- that’s what actually makes this exercise of prospect evaluation so much fun.

In this instance, I feel compelled to give Outman credit for what he has accomplished thus far even if his upside isn’t as tremendous as others in the system that we all have higher hopes for ultimately.

Plus, he has a really cool name for a pitcher; especially if his future is as a late-game reliever.

by still bills kingdom on Dec 3, 2008 9:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

A cool name is just as important in the early innings.

A smart manager will choose to use his coolest name in the most leveraged situations, rather than routinely save it for the 9th inning in a close game.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Dec 3, 2008 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Can somebody with better knowledge that I

Give a decent profile about Corey Brown. I can look up his stats but I can’t look up what kind of player he is. Tools? Ceiling? Floor? Who does he profile as? ETA? Anything???

Just know he’s been around for a couple of years, but still hardly know anything about him.

by NateHST on Dec 2, 2008 9:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

My take

Hits for power, fast, and plays a good center…but he strikes out more then Jack Cust.

If he can learn to make contact with the ball he could be a top ten prospect in the system, but until then he’s Javy Herrera/Richie Robnette.

Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.

by Threepwood XX on Dec 2, 2008 9:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Is anyone interested in hearing about Tyreace House's

ceiling, floor, # of walk-in closets?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 2, 2008 9:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

bathrooms

Bathrooms are proven to increase value more than anything. He needs a solid Bathroom/Bedroom ratio to have any projectability.

ya you know Beane

by youdownwithOBP on Dec 2, 2008 9:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What were you hoping to project in the bathroom?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 2, 2008 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I find the bathroom is the best place for projecting just about anything that comes up

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 2, 2008 10:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The correct question is, what were you hoping to project in the bedroom (in bed)?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2008 10:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So we're talking Mike Cameron upside here?

That’s good, but what’s his likelihood of reaching it?

"All your baserunner are belong to Greg Smith" ~ walk off bunt

by Philip Christy on Dec 2, 2008 10:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

lot more power than Cameron

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Dec 2, 2008 10:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So more than 4 homers in a game?

…joking!

"All your baserunner are belong to Greg Smith" ~ walk off bunt

by Philip Christy on Dec 2, 2008 10:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

A's players don't get 4 ab/game

So no.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 2, 2008 10:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

His walk rate would have to improve

And while he is athletic enough to play a good CF it will take a lot of refinement to project him to Cameron’s level. I don’t know if you can make that reach. As for his likelyhood of succeeding he is getting a bit old to still have this much trouble making contact in A ball. He is only in his first full season, but as he will be 23 next year he needs to start finding a way to stop whiffing so much.

by DiegoAsFan on Dec 2, 2008 10:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually his BB rate was better than I thought

He actually managed to post pretty good OBP’s up untill hitting Stockton, I was over-valuing his most recent results. So maybe that won’t be as much as a problem as the K rate, but the ability to make contact at higher levels is something he is going to have to work through and he doesn’t have too much development time to do it.

by DiegoAsFan on Dec 2, 2008 10:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tools

Supposedly he’s a 5-tool player in CF, which on paper looks great. However, he’s had a very hard time with strikeouts so far in all of his minor league time. But he did put up some solid power numbers in Stockton this year, admittedly in a power-filled league. Overally he’s a solid prospect for where he’ll fall on our list which is around the late teens, early twenties.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Dec 2, 2008 9:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If Brown can get the K's down, and put up a .270/.380/.550 line

he would be a hell of a valuable Centerfielder.

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Dec 2, 2008 10:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If he puts up a .270/.380/.550 line in CF

I don’t care how many friggin strikeouts he has.

by mikev on Dec 2, 2008 11:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Problem is, that line is damned nearly impossible to put up if you strike out as much as he does

It took him a BABIP of .344 to put up an average of .268 this season. The number of guys in MLB who average a BABIP of .344 can probably be counted on the fingers of one hand. Granted, he has a fair number of factors in his favor: speed, power, hits a fair number of grounders, and sees a lot of pitches— but I wouldn’t predict a BABIP of more than about .315 without actual evidence in MLB, which would peg his average at closer to .240 than .270.

I’d say a reasonable (non-pie-eyed) estimation of his future line is in the neighborhood of .240/.330/.480, which is solid enough, though not spectacular. Actually, that’s decent enough that I’m bumping him back up my chart a bit. I’ll start voting for him after Leon is on.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2008 11:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I never really gave Brown much of a thought because I kept hearing that he was a 23-year old who couldn’t make contact in A ball, but after a little stat digging and a lot of listening to PT ooze over Brown’s possibilities, I’m starting to take a platonic liking to the guy.

It is weird though that in the Midwest league his OBP was .37 higher than in Stockton yet his SLG went up about .75. Did he just flat out just start swinging for the fences?

by diehardoaklandfan22 on Dec 2, 2008 11:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Stockton

and the CAL league by extension is a hitter’s league

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Dec 2, 2008 11:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I see, so strategically,

Corey Brown’s fans should vote for Leon, get him on the list, and then get your vote for the next round.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Dec 3, 2008 12:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

There are a lot of opportunities for voting paradoxes and opportunistic behavior on this sort of poll…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 3, 2008 12:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

it would be interesting to try irv for these rounds

there have definitely been votes where there were two or three people who i would have voted for before the eventual winner eg both of the last two rounds. It would be interesting to see how doing this game with instant runoff voting every round would affect the result.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on Dec 3, 2008 10:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I know that, but the point is .270/.380/.550 is like Rickey Henderson lite.

So, I don’t give a shit HOW the outs are made , in that case.

by mikev on Dec 3, 2008 7:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that's a very optimistic line for Brown

In 2008, a batting line of .240/.330/.480 would have given Brown the 13th best BB rate and the 13th best isolated power in the AL. That batting line would have given him a 119 OPS+ in Oakland last year, which would have made him the 6th best offensive CF in baseball

That’s basically saying a reasonable guess is that he’ll turn into Torii Hunter (.272/.326/.468 career line, 105 OPS+) or Jermaine Dye in CF (.281/.338/.491, 112 OPS+) while playing CF. But better than those guys because he’s in a lesser offensive environment. I think that’s pretty pie-eyed.

by Danny on Dec 3, 2008 9:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course it's optimistic...

If he doesn’t make major improvements, like I said, he’s not going anywhere. I already told you what his floor is… not good.

I wasn’t trying to park-adjust the hitting line, not least because we don’t even know what park he’d be putting it up in. Just to get a sort of a sense of what he was capable of. Maybe .320 is closer to his OBP— I can see him walking about 70 times a season in a full year— but I have no problems with the Iso mark, because he has ridiculous power when he makes contact with the ball. He hit almost 10% of his balls in play for home runs this season.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 3, 2008 10:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Those are MVP numbers...

If he gets that line in the pros, he’ll be better than Sizemore.

I don’t see it happening.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Dec 3, 2008 6:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tools: Off the charts; he and Dixon are easily the two most athletic A’s prospects
Ceiling: If everything went right for him, Josh Hamilton.
Floor: Shane Andrews as an outfielder.

Everything about him is good except for his contact ability, which is just appallingly bad. Basically, for him to be a successful MLB player, he’s going to have to learn how to recognize a curveball and either learn to hit them or learn to lay off them a la Cust. If not, he will strike out too often to be useful.

He might take a while to break out. I actually would favor keeping him in Stockton, never mind that he’s “too old”. He’s way behind on a crucial skill for succeeding in MLB. It’s pointless to push him forward when he’s not equipped to succeed. And if he does work out, having him from 26-32 is probably going to be not much, if at all, worse than from 24-30.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2008 11:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

BA also thinks his defense may be better suited to RF at higher levels.

This more than anything is what’s problematic for me. I would take the Dwayne Murphy or Mike Cameron offense if it came with their defense.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2008 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's what I've been wondering

A lot of the discussion centers on Brown being a CF, but I haven’t heard much about whether the scouts think he’ll stick there. I think Swisher played mostly CF in the minors, but there was never much question that he was destined to move to a corner.

Thanks for tomorrow 'cause I've had enough

by andeux on Dec 3, 2008 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I've seen him play a few times

And wasn’t impressed. Here are my Brown thoughts copied from the old fan posts:

Corey Brown needs work. He did have a couple singles tonight. One was a ball he caught off the end of the bat and just muscled on a line into right field. He’s definitely got some strength. The other was a seeing-eye single up the middle. The problem is that he takes some ugly swings and misses some pitches. Though I tend to ignore strike out totals, Brown has 58 in 165 ABs this year. And it’s not just that he’s patient and getting into a lot of 2-strike counts like Jack Cust. He seems to have some trouble with pitch recognition or something. He’s clearly got some talent, but I think he’s probably a few years away right now. One game is not enough to make that judgment, but in talking to a beat reporter who is at all the home games he seemed to feel the same way. — 5-24-08

The second write-up had less information: Corey Brown looked better today than last time I saw him. Drew a walk and lined a single to center. The single was a nice piece of hitting. — 6-15-08

Right now, he’s reminding me a little bit of Joe Borchard without the hype/big signing bonus. That’s not a good comp. That’s probably something like his 30th percentile projection.

by thejd44 on Dec 3, 2008 10:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Voted Leon again

I think this guy will turn into a solid front of the rotation guy based off his success in leagues that are much older than he is. Imagining what our rotation could look like in a few years…

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Dec 2, 2008 9:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

You mean when we have just traded Cahill, Leon, and Mazzaro

for some really promising single-A pitching prospects who should be ready around 2015? Yeah!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 2, 2008 9:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't imagine anything TOO fantastic

I was looking at Dan Meyer’s minor league numbers today. I started weeping.

by NateHST on Dec 2, 2008 10:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Pre-shoulder injury no-doubt.

by OldhamA on Dec 2, 2008 11:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I've heard that one too many times

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Dec 2, 2008 11:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

FDLS

I have been voting for Dixon for the past 3 or so rounds, but I seriously think FDLS is being underrated right now. Wasnt he just the White Sox’s #1 overall prospect a year ago?

by son of wes on Dec 2, 2008 10:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Thats kind of like being the Tallest Midget (ie: the salb award) or being the Astros #1 Prosect

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Dec 2, 2008 10:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

hahaha true, but his upside could be huge

by son of wes on Dec 2, 2008 10:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

When you're salbian, the world is your upside

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 2, 2008 10:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It will be interesting to see what Brown does in Double A next year

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Dec 2, 2008 10:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Definitely. If Cahill were to falter in AAA

next year, he would still be a top 10 prospect. If Corey Brown does not do well in AA next year, he gets relegated to the busted prospects section of the list to occupy Javier Herrera’s current spot.

by ervance on Dec 2, 2008 10:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree-- see above

He’s a toolshed; his numbers aren’t based on being polished. You could say the same about Herrera, of course, but Herrera’s had problems staying healthy which have cratered his upside, and Brown hasn’t (yet).

The A’s can and, if they’re smart, will keep him around even if he keeps scuffling for a few more years, because he’s a breakout away from being a plus player in MLB.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2008 11:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

25 - 22

can we call this for de los santos so i don’t have to vote for him a fifth time?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 2, 2008 11:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

It's 29-28 now. So no.

Dixon will prevail!!!!!

"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox

by Gallagher's Watermelons on Dec 3, 2008 1:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Half a day later and it’s still a dead heat, at 71-71.

At what point to you be Bud Selig and declare that it’s a tie?

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Dec 3, 2008 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

We should have our first runoff

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 3, 2008 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

if it’s this tight, even if one is slightly above the other, there should be a runoff for it removing all the extraneous names/votes.

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Dec 3, 2008 2:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

a runoff

or one of my fellow DLS fans could go to a college computer lab…

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 3, 2008 3:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

or i could go to my home pc where firefox is broken...

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Dec 3, 2008 3:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Typo alert: Matthew Sulentic is not a CF

He’s played one game there in his entire career.

[He also doesn’t really belong anywhere in the top 30, but that’s another story.]

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 3, 2008 12:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Really?

You want to talk about tools, Sulentic has them. Sickels gave Sulentic a better grade than Cahill in 2007 ( a B to a B- the year they were both drafted) based on his faith in Sulentic’s bat. Now, granted Sulentic followed up that faith by doing terribly in the Midwest League and not doing amazing in the Northwest League the following year. But this year Sulentic got his OPS back up to .849 for Stockton. A year and a bit ago, Sulentic was regarded as a Cardenas-like prospect at a less important position. In fact, Minor League Ball ranked Sulentic their 99th best prospect that year. 2008 was Sulentic’s age 20 season. He’s young, has tools, and performed adequately. If he has a .800 OPS in AA next year he could become a real good prospect.

I’m not trying to argue Sulentic deserves to be a top prospect. But a guy who might even be a B- (if Sickels is generous) on the Sickels scale is in any team’s top 30. Even the A’s system isn’t that deep.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Dec 3, 2008 1:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

2 years of not doing anything in pro ball tends to downgrade a guy

and no, a fluky, all-BABIP season in Stockton is not “doing something.” Neutralize his stats for luck and his OPS is .756, which is borderline embarrassing for a California League corner OF.

I won’t dispute that he has some room to improve on that, but his performance to date is well in the “bust” range. And on top of it, he has like every red flag you can possibly imagine— far from being toolsy, he’s short, slow, strikes out a ton, doesn’t walk that much, plays tolerable-at-best defense, and has little power. I was willing to overlook a lot of that before I realized the hitting-for-average skill was a fluke. Now? Not so much. I’d be looking to sell high on him at this point.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 3, 2008 2:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

scout.com has Sulentic as # 20 and Corey Brown as # 14 for the A's

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Dec 3, 2008 5:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm guessing they didn't notice the fluky BABIP

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 3, 2008 10:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Voted Dixon

Swing Vote!

….grover finally got to me.

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by ChadGod on Dec 3, 2008 1:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Voted Brown

His tools are not that far behind Dixon’s – but he is much further along the development curve. He has shown he is capable of handling center, has a very intriguing combination of power and speed but has already hit 30 hrs in a season and has a career minor league OPS of .876. The strikeouts are definately a concern but at this point every player has an issue or two otherwise they would have been ranked higher.

I also think Carignan and Demel deserve to be on the next poll.

by DeJay on Dec 3, 2008 2:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

He should be further along

he’s 5 years older. And Dixon has a lot more time to figure out how to control the strikeouts.

by Josh Deletchi on Dec 3, 2008 3:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting Hunter and Ross have little backing at this point.

Aren’t they meant to be pretty good?

by OldhamA on Dec 3, 2008 4:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Both injury-prone

In fact, that’s the reason the A’s got them, as both were considered first-rounders entering this season.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 3, 2008 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Dixon vs Leyja

Both 17 yrs old. Both produced their numbers in the AZL. Both play key positions
Dixon OPS of 853
Leyja OPS of 862
Dixon 5 SB 2 CS
Leyja 10 SB 2 CS
Looks like Dixon might have more power, but Leyja more speed and better batting eye.
I am not saying that Leyja should be the #14 prospect, obviously I did not vote for him.
But why 48 votes for Dixon and none for Leyja! Were not selling jeans here.

by Hang Man on Dec 3, 2008 8:37 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Because we have more information than their 200 pro ABs

And all of that information (scouting reports, mostly) indicates Dixon is much better. If these guys were in AAA and had ~1500 pro ABs, I would put a lot more weight into their performance than their scouting reports. But at the point they’re at now, we still have to lean heavily on the scouting reports.

by Danny on Dec 3, 2008 9:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed but Leyja was drafted a lot higher than BA thought he should go and his performance

was awesome offensively. I’ve no idea what to make of that combination, but I’m willing to believe that the scouts may have underrated him.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2008 9:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, at least now my Dixon vote

seems to be counting for something.

Then Leon, Brown, Outman, FDLS in my books.

I really, really hate TJ surgery.

RagingHarden: Yeah if you get 20 starts out of me I'll be shocked. Like, I'll wreck my drawers.

by walk off bunt on Dec 3, 2008 10:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

But for the record

I would have had both Dixon and Leon ahead of the Inoa—→Rodriguez run.

RagingHarden: Yeah if you get 20 starts out of me I'll be shocked. Like, I'll wreck my drawers.

by walk off bunt on Dec 3, 2008 10:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

why do you hate TJ surgery so much?

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Dec 3, 2008 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Relievers may seem like a dime for a dozen

but I would pay more attention to Andrew Carignan than all of you have so far. When we start comparing Carignan’s likelihood of joining the A’s staff on a permanent basis with question marks like Outman or FDLS, I think the odds are in Carignan’s favor. In Arizona this fall, as in Midland last summer, he’s been a rock.

chronic

by Since1972 on Dec 3, 2008 10:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

A lock to walk 2 guys every 3 innings?

So few minor league relievers end up making the majors that it’s hard to get too excited over a guy with such a bad BB rate (55 BB in 76 pro IP).

by Danny on Dec 3, 2008 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

How is Carignan less of a question mark than Outman?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2008 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I have to agree the walks are troubling

But he manages to get his saves anyway. Is he ready? No, that’s probably why he’s pitching in Arizona. I guess I’m more impressed by the 30 saves this year. As to Outman, 45 walks to 86 strikeouts is hardly breathtaking. I, of course, could easily be wrong, but at the moment I have him as a AAAA pitcher.

chronic

by Since1972 on Dec 3, 2008 11:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Outman's K/BB is very similar to Carignan's. If he's an AAAA pitcher isn't Carignan one too?

I don’t see a vast difference between the two except that Outman’s been a starter before and the A’s seem to be giving him a shot to turn back into one.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2008 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Zonis, I love these. What I find most gratifying is that we have ALL of these guys to choose from.

Even a year ago we would have been done by now and just been adding the scraps. But now we are talking about guys like Dixon, Brown, Carignan, Ross, Carlos Hernandez, Hunter, DLS, Leon, Leyja and Coleman to name a few. These guys are all going to fill the 15 to 30 spots.

I really don’t know where anyone should fit cause, look at Ziggy, he was not highly rated but he is our #2 guy in the bullpen now next to Devine. The writeups I have been reading at Athletics.scout.com have been really nice about many of these players and how they are tweaking Carignan, Bailey and others and they have high hopes for DLS.

I can see in a year or two where we are wondering how to move a pitcher up when our 1 -5 are all of our top prospects now. It is a great problem to have.

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Dec 3, 2008 12:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Ben Badler, the guy who wrote BA's A's Top 10

Rates Dixon over Leon.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 3, 2008 12:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

so that’s another point against dixon

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 3, 2008 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

BA Top 10

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Dec 3, 2008 12:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Wow,,, No Doolittle in the top 10.

And Weeks #9. I think him and Mazzaro are too high.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 3, 2008 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think we might overrate Doolittle here a little

He did strike out 153 times in 137 games, and he put up a .699 OPS in Midland. It’s pretty good that he wouldn’t make our top ten in that grouping though; our system is stacked.

"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox

by Gallagher's Watermelons on Dec 3, 2008 1:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

His AFL number were

great. And so were Stocktons. I’ll give him a pass on a small sample in midland. He has the ability to draw walks. He just has focused more on power this year. Now if he can blend the two he becomes top 5 material.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 3, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think a hitter is always better not "focusing" on power

If he focuses on making solid contact and being selective at the plate, the power will come as he matures physically. Swinging for the fences might help his stats in Stockton, but it definitely won’t help in Oakland. I’d rather have a .300/.400/.450 hitter than a .250/.325/.525 hitter, even though they have the same OPS.

"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox

by Gallagher's Watermelons on Dec 3, 2008 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Doolittle is interesting to say the least.

More Walks than Ks with no power in college to all power and ton of Ks in the minors.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 3, 2008 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Holliday

I can’t believe they have Holliday as the projected RF in 2012. Is there anyone who really believes he’s sticking around for more than 1 season?

by rageon on Dec 3, 2008 2:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with the comment about a run-off

We should do it between DLS and Dixon, and make whoever loses #15.

"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox

by Gallagher's Watermelons on Dec 3, 2008 1:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

74 to 73, DLS

I think it’s pretty obvious!

by mikev on Dec 3, 2008 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

74 to 74 now

:D

"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox

by Gallagher's Watermelons on Dec 3, 2008 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

by mikev on Dec 3, 2008 2:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I JUST saw that today

Someone on the Jaguars message board is using it for their avatar. Pretty good representation of our fan base right now (Jaguars, that is).

"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox

by Gallagher's Watermelons on Dec 3, 2008 4:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree on runoff

Just vote between the two. As to whether the loser should automatically be #15, I have no opinion.

by rageon on Dec 3, 2008 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think the loser should NOT auto to 15

There’s sort of a philosophical question about TJ surgery and position players w/ high upside that’s driving this discussion. People might stick to their guns against the loser, so It’s totally possible that the loser slides the next round too. It’s not likely, but possible. So we should run #15 (and perhaps be on the lookout for a quick call if its a landslide)

by ohmangoAs on Dec 3, 2008 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

wow

We’re having a similar prospect-ranking series over at the McCovey Chronicles, but honestly, your prospect list looks a lot better. On the bright side, at least the Giants have the handicap of being in the NL West…

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 3, 2008 3:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

As a non-hater fan of both teams, I was disturbed by how rapidly the Giants list thinned out after about #8

The G-men have a comparable first 7 or so but it really goes into the poop chute after that point. The Giants really need to continue rebuilding by dealing Molina and Winn to add some more depth, but it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 3, 2008 3:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

my concern is that Sabean will flip either of those two guys for 4A’s or filler guys, when draft picks would probably be a better way to go

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 3, 2008 3:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I just tied it up again

Dixon

"AN, Reducing Work Productivity since 2003", connie mack 11/06/08

by adragon on Dec 3, 2008 3:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

broke tie

dixon

"Sometimes Joe (morgan) doesn't like facts to get in the way of his opinions."- billy beane
"That was a great pick...if this was 2002" Me, to guy who selected Barry Zito in a fantasy draft

by harendaman365 on Dec 3, 2008 3:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs