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A's talking to Giambi's agent

This article from Susan Slusser talks more about Crosby's place with the A's, and includes quotes from Crosby, but far more interesting than that is this:

The A's are poised to begin talks with free-agent designated hitter Jason Giambi, who was named the American League MVP while playing in Oakland in 2001. General manager Billy Beane chatted with Giambi's agent, Arn Tellem, this week, and the sides could begin discussing a contract early next week. According to sources close to Giambi, he is looking for a three-year deal, but Oakland is not likely to offer more than two years and perhaps an option. Giambi will turn 38 in January.

Take that, Giambi haters!

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Giambi

Giambi used to be my favorite player when I was in the third grade, which was about seven, eight years ago in 2001. I would wear my Giambi shirt to school every Friday.

by Rated-R Superstar on Dec 19, 2008 7:07 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Me too..

fourth grade actually and he was my second favorite to Miggy. But I would love it if Giambi and Tejada came back with a healthy Chavez. Reminds me of the millenium. Randy Johnson would be sweet too. The A’s would sell tickets with all those guys so I think it’s a possibility.

by T-Money on Dec 20, 2008 1:04 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You guys are young.

feels like an old geezer

"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."

by Blicks on Dec 20, 2008 1:11 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

I feel absolutely ancient.

"However, at Elias, I think they keep track of the amount of sunflower seeds spit in a dugout each night." - Brad Ziegler, 8/7/08

by doctorK on Dec 21, 2008 4:15 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was

the same way, except I was wearing a Huddy shirt

by Holy Toledo! on Dec 22, 2008 10:30 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Memo to Beane

Please stop talking to Jason Giambi, he makes absolutely no sense for this team.

ESPECIALLY on a 2-3 year deal.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 19, 2008 7:29 PM PST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

P.S.

Why are you torturing us?

"RIP: UserID: 553"

by Masaryk on Dec 19, 2008 7:40 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd gladly take him on a two-year deal, m'self

You can’t have everything. This A’s team has no hitting, and so to add some while staying within a reasonable payroll and not selling off the farm means sacrificing defense, either by way of Giambi at 1B or (if an OF gets hurt) Cust in the OF.

The other options (Dunn, Burrell) come with the same problem, only longer term. At least Giambi keeps Barton in the picture down the road, and at least a lineup with Cust, Holliday, Giambi, and Chavez will score some runs.

I would have thought that after last season, fans would be thrilled to see Holliday and Giambi added – granted there’s a concern about compromising the long-term plan, but for right now we can at least enjoy the possibility that games might not be so Hannahanny-Emilbrowny.

Anyway, move Ellis one step to his left and suddenly Giambi has better range. Snerk.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 19, 2008 7:41 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ever reasonable Nico

Giambi will not get 3 years from the A’s, duh, and he won’t cost that much and he will allow Barton to grow some…manhood…in the minors hopefully so that then we can have some actual depth at 1B and not risk that Barton is the next Dan Johnson.

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Dec 19, 2008 8:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ha... i wish barton was as good as dan johnson...

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Dec 19, 2008 9:45 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Adding hitting while sacrificing defense gets a team nowhere

Unless you accept that Giambi is a league average 1B he’s going to have to do more than just stop declining to be a good signing. If he continues declining then it’s a disaster.

Oh, and guess what moving to Oakland does to offensive numbers. (If you guessed “reduces them” you’ll see another reason Giambi makes no sense for this team)

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 19, 2008 8:40 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think the whole "will put up worse numbers in Oakland" argument

is a silly one. Everyone suffers equally, so all you’re saying is that instead of hitting .250/.380 with 30 HRs in a better hitter’s park, he might hit .240/.360 with 26 HRs – which will be exactly as good, relatively, as hitting .250/.380 with 30 HRs in a hitter’s park. It doesn’t matter what numbers a hitter puts up, it matters how productively he hits.

Plus, Giambi’s style won’t hurt him much in Oakland – when he hits the ball he hits it hard, and he doesn’t rely on majestic fly balls that are carried by the wind/air.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 19, 2008 9:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There is an argument that the move will hurt a player like Giambi more than the park adjustment

Specifically, Yankee stadium has a notoriously short porch in RF. I could easily see Giambi’s power numbers drop substantially from the move.

As for your larger point, I think you’re confusing player analysis and team success. It’s true that if GIambi’s offense declines only to the extent you’d expect from the park adjustment his value as a player is unchanged. At the same time, there is a material difference to the A’s between 32 HRs and 26 HRs. Less offensive production is bad for the team, even if it is to be expected.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 20, 2008 12:37 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My point is there ISN'T a material difference to the A's

between Giambi hitting 32 HRs in a context where 16 is average, and Giambi hitting 26 HRs in a context where 13 is average. That’s why there are adjustments for park effect.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 20, 2008 8:06 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sure there is

Not least because in context A he’s producing 16 more HRs than average and context B he’s producing 13 more.

We use park adjustments to determine a player’s underlying baseball talent. The A’s shouldn’t care about his underlying baseball talent, but rather how it combines with luck, park adjustments, and everything else to produce results. It’s like the argument that Embree sucked in 2007. Sure his peripherals and projections were bad, but his actual performance was good.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 20, 2008 10:37 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll bet 26 home runs...

is more than Barton will hit next year. Just sayin’…

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Dec 20, 2008 10:40 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ha!

The reason guys play 1st base is because they can’t play defense. Barton’s defense won’t offset Giambi’s offense.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Dec 20, 2008 11:02 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes

Someone show me otherwise. If I recall no one ever could, but instead the Bartonacs would say “Barton defense + Bartons amazing new offense > Giambi”

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Dec 20, 2008 11:04 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and, what were Giambi's 2008 offensive numbers worth...

in wins over Barton’s 2008 numbers?

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Dec 20, 2008 11:33 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This

The difference between Giambi and Barton, when factoring in defense, is probably 1 win at best. Paying 10MM for a marginal 1 win improvement is just stupid.

"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."

by Blicks on Dec 20, 2008 5:39 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Stupider than agreeing with a post

by saying “This”? Sorry, just an emerging pet peeve of mine.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 20, 2008 5:44 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This.

Agree 100%.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 20, 2008 6:14 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nico FTW!

"I'm going to take a camera crew and march into Billy Beane's office and demand to know why instituting his newfangled cost-saving measures means that the run manufacturing plant had to get shut down." FJM

by Elvez on Dec 20, 2008 6:29 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Blech.

Yeah, my usage of “this” is probably getting old.

"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."

by Blicks on Dec 20, 2008 7:06 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I liked it

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Dec 20, 2008 8:27 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I tease because I love!

Though I also do hate the “this” craze.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 20, 2008 8:50 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This

You do realize that I’ve no choice now but to reply “This” to all your posts.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 20, 2008 8:51 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, nevermoor - my point is that

if Giambi hits (make up a number here) 26% more HRs than an average power hitter would when playing at the Coliseum, and 26% more HRs on the road, he is 26% better a power hitter than someone who is average, and he will hit more HRs than someone who is 24% above average. Yet he may not hit the same number of HRs at home and on the road. It’s graded on a curve, in a sense.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 20, 2008 5:20 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I understand your point

But the A’s total runs scored in a year is not graded on a curve. Giambi’s talent as a baseball player is, but that isn’t really what the A’s care about. They care about his 2009 (and, it appears, his 2010) performance. The underlying skill is irrelevant.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 20, 2008 7:47 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No it isn't!

When he hits with the wind blowing in, it’s blowing in for everyone. Every hitter will see a drop in batting average at the Coliseum, and every pitcher will see a drop in ERA. So if the average score were 4-3 but at the Coliseum it were 3-2, Giambi wouldn’t be any worse for his lower offensive production – any more than Joe Pitcher would be any better, or more successful, for his 3.50 ERA.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 20, 2008 8:52 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm with you on No Giambi, but not here.

Because if you “penalize” Giambi’s performance with an adjustment for McAfee, you have to do the same for Dunn, Burrell, or anybody else. About the only guy who don’t have to adjust (based on 2008 numbers) in this way is Barton since his 2008 included that penalty.

by thejd44 on Dec 20, 2008 10:56 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Right

And I think it’s time to award this one to Nico.

{Retreats from the field}

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 20, 2008 11:20 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This essentially blocks Barton for 2 years (depending on the contract)

Which seems to be contrary to what our “rebuilding” model was supposed to do……let the young kids play. Granted, we need some offense to keep the pressure off our young pitching staff….(enter RJ or Sheets here)….not a few extra wins that Giambi “might” get us…..not for $6 million more than Barton (figures I just pulled out of my a$$)

Sure, Barton can occasionally DH, play 1st when Giambi DH’s…..still we must share DH time with Cust too….so, limited at bats for Barton, which again, is contrary to what “rebuilding” was to do for the team circa 2010 and beyond.

So send Barton to Sac? OK? He was a poster boy for our future in Sept. 07, he had a miserable 2008, so he’s done? Back to AAA? What message does this send? If he can’t hit ML pitching let’s figure that out THIS YEAR….not 2010 when we should be hitting on all cylinders….

"RIP: UserID: 553"

by Masaryk on Dec 19, 2008 9:15 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

let the young guys play

doesn’t work if the young guys turn out to be dan johnson II or bobby crosby II or ben grieve II

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Dec 19, 2008 9:18 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True.

So, we must assume then, that BB et al believe that Barton is in that league? It is certainly possible…..Barton’s 2008 was a head scratcher…..

"RIP: UserID: 553"

by Masaryk on Dec 19, 2008 9:21 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My take on 2008 is that Barton is an immature 23

Not all 23 year olds are equal. Barton’s season, on and off the field, suggested he could use a kick in the pants that says, “Nothing’s automatic, fella – grow up and earn it.” And if he rises to the challenge, the A’s have him through 2014, which is good.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 19, 2008 9:23 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why was he only immature at the plate? He was plenty mature in the field.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 19, 2008 10:34 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You can be immature and still field the ball

Hitters aren’t constantly trying to make adjustments to get one step ahead of you.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 20, 2008 8:09 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not sure Barton will be better off starting in the big leagues

compared to getting his approach/swing back with a season of AAA (he’s still only 23). In 2010, if Barton is ready to thrive in the bigs Giambi can shift over to DH with Cust to LF if both are still factors.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 19, 2008 9:21 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hear ya...

But, shouldn’t this have been the process LAST YEAR…..We chose to call him up then, when we had DJ…….DJ don’t make $6 million.

So, what happens if Barton’s swing comes back during ST? Do we still keep him down in Sac? Could be an interesting development.

"RIP: UserID: 553"

by Masaryk on Dec 19, 2008 9:31 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Barton's an average big league 1B by June, he'd have to be called up

It’s possible Holliday would have been traded by then or Buck injured or Giambi injured or traded or something. They would make room for good Daric. 2008 Daric is another matter entirely.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 19, 2008 10:20 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Giambi is playing first base everyday

I think I’d put the O/U on him getting hurt at around mid-May.

by thejd44 on Dec 20, 2008 10:41 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I really doubt he would play first every game.

Definitely would see some time at DH as well, with Cust getting a spot start in LF, more than likely.

by mrod on Dec 20, 2008 10:42 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this is a very good comment.

"I'll make a list for the record. These people should be trusted: Sal, andeux, rfloh, danny...and no one else. Certainly not me. And even extra super-certainly not NSJ."

by notsellingjeans on Dec 19, 2008 9:24 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You mean yours?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 19, 2008 9:24 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

THIS comment is weak.

"All your baserunner are belong to Greg Smith" ~ walk off bunt

by Philip Christy on Dec 19, 2008 9:31 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is this a question?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 19, 2008 10:14 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is this a dagger I see before me?

No, ’tis my pants!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 20, 2008 8:11 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know where Birnam Wood is ...

… but I know Dunn’s inane.

< / Ricciardi >

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 20, 2008 10:25 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

more like

“its blocking Sean Doolittle for a year or two!”

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Dec 19, 2008 10:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Right now AA pitching is blocking Sean Doolittle.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 19, 2008 10:20 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

zing

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Dec 20, 2008 1:01 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Barton never dominated AAA

He is plenty young and can learn more there. Play him there until he dominates and then either trade Giambi, use him to platoon at DH if some OFers are sucking, or accept him as a bench player. His contract is not going to sink the ship. Worst case scenario we are on the hook for 7-9 million dollars for a useless Giambi in 2010. BIG FREAKIN DEAL

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Dec 20, 2008 11:07 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I highly doubt Giambi will sink the A's ship

The man can still hit the piss out of the ball and he has always had a great eye, steroids be damned!

Giambi useless? I think not………..

by mrod on Dec 20, 2008 11:40 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But there's not a lot to say he would hit in Oakland!

That’s the problem. He’s moving from a park designed for a guy like him to a park designed for pitchers. He’s older. He’s had health problems. He’s not better than Jack Cust, and he’s so bad defensively (and likely to get worse) that even if he’s a win better than Barton at this moment he probably will be worst by this time next year.

It’s completely illogical.

by thejd44 on Dec 20, 2008 10:39 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh come on - the A's have TONS of hitters like that

For example, didn’t Crosby and Hannahan slug .502? Combined?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 19, 2008 9:24 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I answer you that his numbers are steadily declining.

Between aging and the move to Oakland I’d bet he’s a lot closer to .450 than .500 slugging next year.

Maybe he puts up an 800 OPS, maybe not. Even if he does, though, his defense sucks enough that a .750 from Barton is likely better for the team. And that’s before you take the cost of Giambi’s contract and the opportunity cost of not having that money to actually improve the team into account.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 20, 2008 12:41 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

an .800 OPS...

well, that would put him second behind Cust in 2009. I’d take it.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Dec 20, 2008 10:46 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

okay, third...

behind Holliday and Cust. I’d still take it.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Dec 20, 2008 10:49 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sighs

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 20, 2008 7:48 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, quite simple, that's a stupid effing answer

I’ll let nevermoor handle his own arguments, but some out-of-context numbers are not the way to gain any kind of credibility.

by thejd44 on Dec 20, 2008 10:40 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed

The best way to gain credibility is to throw around stupid effing blanket denunciations of entire cities, then chide other people about their credibility problems.

by 74mk on Dec 20, 2008 11:00 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can easily back up the sucktitude of Oakland with crime statistics

I just figured it was a given, and thus linking to those statistics was unnecessary.

On the other hand, throwing out a rate stat line without any context means almost nothing.

by thejd44 on Dec 20, 2008 11:24 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Come on, thejd44

I know think you’re smarter than that.

What was missing from those comments was context, temperance, and an understanding that crime rates, however high, don’t reflect the entirety of a city’s character.

You made the same error as johnjahafanclub above – that is, extrapolating an all-encompassing conclusion from a tiny slice of knowledge. Except your error was made more egregious by your sneering tone and vapid musings about people getting shot in the face.

I think it’s fascinating – given the numerous rebuttals to your posts in that thread – that you a) chose not to respond to any of them, and b) still don’t grasp how silly your comments were.

Also, calling someone’s comment effing stupid is effing obnoxious.

by 74mk on Dec 20, 2008 2:46 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And calling something someone said effing obnoxious is...

…Aaaaaaah, my head hurts!

{drinks more}

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 20, 2008 5:18 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the next round is on me Nico!

and the one after that is on the pony!

by mrod on Dec 20, 2008 5:48 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Woo hoo!

{drinks pony}

Oh crap.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 20, 2008 6:15 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why did you drink pony crap?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 20, 2008 7:47 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

His voice was horse

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Dec 20, 2008 8:28 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Urine fine form tonight

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 20, 2008 8:52 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Silly to place a drink on a pony

They’re quite unstable

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Dec 21, 2008 4:17 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

… effing hypocritical?

… effing paradoxical?

by 74mk on Dec 21, 2008 5:31 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have two reasons for not replying in that thread

One is that there seem to be 5 oe 6 new posts everyday lately, and I can’t keep up with them all and once they’re off the main page they’re out of my mind completely. The other is that I haven’t had my computer until Wednesday so my internet access has been limited. I haven’t been able to “follow” threads in my free time. And, checking it now, I realize that it took quite the turn from my original comment. Lots of talk about San Diego and whatnot. Most of those replies weren’t even to me.

My point was this: It doesn’t surprise me if the reason a player doesn’t want to play in a city is that the murder rate is 3.5 times the national average. That, to me, is logical. And at the time the word was that Furcal “liked Oakland the least.” Since it’s pretty silly to think he hated one of the best-run organizations in baseball, I made the assumption it was his tour of the city that turned him off. It may not be right, but it’s logical.

And if my sneering tone and musing about such awful things as getting shot in the face bothers you, um, I’m going to bother you a lot. I could’ve made the point in a way that was a lot more plain and boring, but that’s just not how I like to write and make points.

by thejd44 on Dec 20, 2008 11:03 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'm gonna stay outta this...

except to say… Giambi is better than Barton. Fremont is safer than Oakland. Anybody who says they’ll walk from the Coli to a bar after a game in Oakland is not telling the truth. Unless they’re well armed and, pretty much, fearless.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Dec 21, 2008 12:48 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not afraid. It's just too far to walk

There are parts of Oakland that are quite dangerous but the area around the Coliseum isn’t so bad. It’s mostly industrial. It’s not like a stroll past 98th and Bancroft.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Dec 21, 2008 1:38 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The way you made the point *was* plain and boring.

You’re a writer, no? Given the reservoirs of creativity and linguistic aptitude that implies, you should be less inclined than the next guy to indulge in ad hominem boorishness.

At a minimum, you owe it to your craft to produce insults that are mildly more clever than the average know it all twentysomething blog hack. Standards, man!

I’m pretty sure Mark Twain would be aghast at the sheer lameness of “effing stupid”.

by 74mk on Dec 21, 2008 5:21 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Would he be aghast to "fucking stupid"?

That way the purity of intent is kept true.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 21, 2008 7:39 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think so, yes.

Though perhaps “unimpressed by” or “scornful of” would more accurately describe his hypothetical reaction than “aghast at”.

by 74mk on Dec 21, 2008 10:49 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey, y'all!

stop using all them fanciful words!

by mrod on Dec 21, 2008 12:46 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This.

"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."

by Blicks on Dec 20, 2008 8:07 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah

Y’know, what does Barton have to gain going back to the minors? No one really believes that the 2008 version was the real deal, right? The kid’s going to start hitting, but doing it against inferior competition doesn’t do him a lick of good, if’n you ask me. Which no one did. Still, I don’t like sending him down when what he needs is to adjust to ML pitching. And I don’t want some octaganarian manning first base.

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Dec 20, 2008 12:19 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

NO giambi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spend the money on the draft or Latin American free agents!

by calas on Dec 19, 2008 7:45 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

we did a ton of that last year

importance to have balance… can’t put all your eggs in one basket

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Dec 19, 2008 8:49 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Draft and Latin America is two baskets. How many egg baskets can you carry anyway?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 19, 2008 10:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No more than seven

Trust me.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 20, 2008 8:12 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes on Giambi!

I think it would be a great addition to the offense and a way for Giambi to contribute some veteran leadership in the clubhouse along with Duke, Chavvy, Ellis, and Holliday. Say what you want about veteran leadership being overrated and meaningless, but I do happen to beleive it helps on a team this young. Plus, it’s time for the Giambino to come home…….

2 years for 17-18 million w/ a club option for a 3rd – or a buyout. The A’s can absolutely afford this and still shop for Ben Sheets and perhaps a trade if one looks promising for an alternative to Crosby at SS. My two cents……..

by mrod on Dec 19, 2008 7:51 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great leadership

“Alright, so what you wanna do is go ahead and jam that needle right in your ass cheek. It’s fleshy, see? Mitigates the pain. Much better than putting it between your toes. What’s that, Sweeney? Your testicles? Son, how dedicated are you to winning?”

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Dec 20, 2008 12:21 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

QOTM!

"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."

by Blicks on Dec 20, 2008 12:23 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Haha!!!

that was fucking awesome!!!!!!! love it!

by mrod on Dec 20, 2008 12:38 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would take him for a year

Giambi’s not exactly a gazelle at first and Cust is not the world’s best LF but they both cannot play DH together.

I know if the game was on the line at the plate I would take Giambi’s bat hands down over Mr Whiff though. Giambi did have 111 K’s last year but at least he can hit the occasional breaking pitch. We need more power so if he can hit 30 plus bombs then that’s a help

by Trainman on Dec 19, 2008 8:00 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He can probably hit 25HR with a .360 OBP,

and I’ll take it.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 19, 2008 8:03 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Me too

…and I haven’t even started drinking yet.

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."

-Charles Manson

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 19, 2008 8:04 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+2

I’ve been drinking PBR’s for a few hours though…

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Dec 19, 2008 8:50 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

F MGD, Pabst is the champagne of beers

Well done, sir.

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Dec 20, 2008 12:21 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually

that distinction belongs to Miller, sir. Nice sentiment, though.

by mrod on Dec 20, 2008 12:39 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For some reason I just had a vision of Jon Miller pouring a beer.

“And the foam is flowing over the rim of the glass! A head! Someone get me something to put this on, to protect the counter! A coaster!”

"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL

by oblique on Dec 20, 2008 3:19 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess this means WE haven't blackballed Furcal's agency after all...

though not sure if we’ll ever work with his Agent again (Kinzer Soze)

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Dec 19, 2008 8:05 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Beane and Tellem have a pretty long and good history

He might have a few choice words for Arn’s colleague, though, to be mentioned over lunch. Hopefully not at Fatapples.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 19, 2008 8:12 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Used to be Zito's agent, not so?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 19, 2008 8:27 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

used to be

then he got canned mid-season while Z was still an Athletic.

“Enter The Draconian……” >Boras

by mrod on Dec 19, 2008 8:28 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Arn Tellum has always seemed to be a decent agent

and Beane has dealt with him before, so they definitely are familiar with the other.

Kinzer=douche
Tellum=okay till proven otherwise.

I know it looks bad for his agency right now because of the bad publicity with Furcal/Kinzer….but that doesn’t mean that Tellum is responsible for either one’s behavior. Does it look bad for the firm? Yes. Does it mean Tellum is at fault? Probably not. It was Kinzer representing his direct client and he fucked up, and, he will have to deal with the consequences here after. Agian, just my two cents.

by mrod on Dec 19, 2008 8:12 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The A's were not wronged in any way by Kinzer or Furcal.

As far as we know anyway, they never committed in any way to the A’s. They never said, “hey, we will sign for 4/40 if you offer it.” They may have led some people to think that, but it was fair business until the Dodgers re-emerged, imo.

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Dec 19, 2008 8:20 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In response to Chad God

The whole Kinzer/Furcal shuffle off to Moronville reminded me of a 13 yr old pre-pubescent girl trying to decide which boy she was gonna let “go-around” with her…..and I do mean little girl!

by mrod on Dec 19, 2008 8:31 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You mean like when Marcia Brady had two dates to the dance?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 19, 2008 10:23 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wonder if Kinzer

broke off talks with Beane by saying, “Something suddenly came up.”

"We are a complete freak show." -- Billy Beane

by day-to-day on Dec 21, 2008 5:36 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That would be if they had eaten at Applebees.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 21, 2008 6:20 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

God I'm glad that argument with grover is over
They never said, "hey, we will sign for 4/40 if you offer it."

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 19, 2008 8:43 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm just getting at the fact that I'm glad it's over

I’m not at all trying to get back into a 40-comment nested battle between our imaginations.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 20, 2008 12:42 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good point

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Dec 20, 2008 11:12 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Kinzer will be taking a back seat with this agency

recent events have sure made him look like a total moron

The fact that Kinzer and K-Rod are joined at the hip confirms this.

Kinzer probably pointed to the sky after he screwed Atlanta over and got a deal with the Dodgers.

by Trainman on Dec 19, 2008 8:21 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't really understand the point of adding Giambi

He’s a minimal upgrade, probably less of one for this season than Cabrera would be. Not clear that he’s any cheaper. And on top of that, he plugs a position where the A’s have ample options instead of one where they have doodly squat.

This offseason is incomprehensible to me. First they overpay for Holliday’s wins, then they suddenly get all cheapo over Furcal, who genuinely represents a long-term upgrade, and now they’re back to overpay mode? I cannot figure out what their strategy is here, and that’s not something I say often when talking about the A’s front office.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 19, 2008 8:30 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

did not overpay for holliday

13 mil for him for one year plus draft picks for expendable underwhelming players cargon/street/smith is a great deal for us

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Dec 19, 2008 8:57 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, it's not

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 19, 2008 9:47 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Beane can swing a deal like

 Atlanta gave Texas for Tiex then its worth it.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 19, 2008 10:09 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, it would be

But JJfanclub’s contention that 1 year + draft picks = great deal is wrong.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 19, 2008 10:14 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well if he somehow is the difference in the offense

and gets us to the post season off a 40HR 130RBI MVP season it is. But unlikely. I think Beane deals him to the Yankees mid season for Hughes/Montero/Betances. Thats my dream anyways.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 19, 2008 10:18 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Another trade with no SS coming back!

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 19, 2008 10:26 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Now now

Just because Beane won’t trade for a SS, can’t sign a FA SS nor draft a SS does not necessarily mean the A’s won’t have a SS.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 19, 2008 10:27 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You mean we're going to reincarnate Honus Wagner?

Awesome!

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 19, 2008 10:30 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

cloned players...

are the next undervalued niche Beane will exploit. If Bonds can’t get a contract to play next year, his 23 year old clone will sign with the A’s.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Dec 20, 2008 10:57 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What good young SS are there out there in the

minors right now? There really isnt one stud one out there. Unless one slips my might ATM. Theres some good could be ones. But no studs.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 19, 2008 10:34 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When you're sober, we'll all have a laugh about

your sentence construction!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 20, 2008 8:13 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Haha i just woke up a re-read that.

It was 4:30 on the east coast when i wrote that and 1/2 in the bag. LoL.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Dec 20, 2008 12:38 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The only way that deal comes out to be a great deal

is if Holliday is spun off for some great prospects or we re-sign him. Otherwise it’s an okay deal made at perhaps the wrong time.

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Dec 19, 2008 10:09 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or he's spun off some great prospects AND we re-sign him, solely because of the strong

bond developed during his weeks in Oakland.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 19, 2008 10:27 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My Point

was that it was not “over-paying” for Holliday. It was a fair deal.

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Dec 20, 2008 6:20 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Every deal has a context

Any player has a worth to any given team. Signing Casey Blake for $3 million a year might be overpaying if you’re the New York Mets, who have a young star at third base.

Trading away that many useful pieces for a one-year rental for a dubious contender is most definitely overpaying. All the word means is that you gave up more than you got, and the A’s absolutely did that.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 21, 2008 11:01 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, but you could use those expendable players in a deal for pieces that help long term.

as opposed to a 1 year rental.

"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."

by Blicks on Dec 20, 2008 11:31 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At some point right or wrong

don’t you believe the A’s front office has to consider putting some butts back in the seats? Last year was an attendance nightmare towards the end of the season.

Looking forward to Spring Training and the hope of another World Series title.

by ohtobe21likehuston on Dec 20, 2008 12:44 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

absolutely! Agree 100%

And it doesn’t help that the A’s are already gonna have a tough time putting butts in seats anyways with most people having to be picky about how the are gonna spend what little money they do have.

Ah, the days of big crowds and extra cash………….:)

by mrod on Dec 20, 2008 1:03 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Winning puts butts in the seats.

Signing Giambi and trading for Tejada and losing 100 games would not put more butts in seats than winning 95 with a bunch of nobodies. The only reason to sign Giambi should be you think he’s worth the money it’ll cost for the wins he’ll provide with relation to who he would replace.

by thejd44 on Dec 20, 2008 11:05 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well having both of those guys in the lineup

certainly increases the chances of winning and putting butts in seats.

by mrod on Dec 21, 2008 12:56 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No

The team is operated independently of the fan base, or lack thereof. In the modern baseball era, with revenue sharing and other common revenue sources, that’s a doable project.

Last year was an attendance nightmare at the end of the season because the team was a baseball nightmare at the end of the season.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 21, 2008 11:06 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree that the team was a nightmare at the end of last season

If the A’s sign some more FA’s to improve the team I think it “will help” the attendance, especially if the A’s come out of the gate strong. We’ll see if they can sustain that through a whole season, but first let’s see what they do or don’ do this off season.

by mrod on Dec 21, 2008 12:53 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But Paul...

we saw the money offered, 4 years-38 million, and the A’s were still the only team to offer 4 years “"guaranteed” as far as we all know. And Furcal still did not want to play here……I think we have talked Furcal to death at this point. Right now, I want to talk about what’s still to come, what could happen, what is not yet doe, sir.

Serve……

:)

by mrod on Dec 19, 2008 8:35 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe trading an OFer and pitching prospects for a SS,

and signing Giambi or Abreu? Somehow I don’t think so, because trading an OFer just doesn’t seem to be among the options the A’s are considering, but that combo would make some sense.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 19, 2008 9:15 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Except that there are a whole bunch of veteran OF looking for jobs now.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 19, 2008 10:28 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bring back EMIL!!

( checks into psychiatric hospital )

Looking forward to Spring Training and the hope of another World Series title.

by ohtobe21likehuston on Dec 20, 2008 12:37 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yup

Seems pretty clear to me that Furcal wanted to stay in LA the whole time, and used both Atl and Oak to get the best deal he could from LA.

by chri5 on Dec 19, 2008 9:21 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah! Whatever happened to good old fashioned greed?

In my day we took the deal with the most guaranteed dollars. And we liked it.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 19, 2008 10:32 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think the whole "ready to start talks with Giambi's agent about a contract"

thing is just a head-fake.

The A’s are probably the “mystery team” in the Teixeira sweepstakes because Beane and Forst are so miffed about missing out on Furcal that they’ve decided to go for broke…

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081219&content_id=3723826&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

by still bills kingdom on Dec 19, 2008 10:03 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What reason do we have to acquire a 1b?

Then again, what reason did we have to acquire an OF?

"To this day and dating back 25 years, before every game he plays, Henderson stands completely naked in front of a full length locker room mirror and says, "Ricky’s the best," for several minutes."

by VORP is too nerdy on Dec 19, 2008 10:28 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The one we have can't hit?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 19, 2008 10:29 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One bad season does not equal 'can't hit'

it’s not like he’s Bobby Crosby.

"To this day and dating back 25 years, before every game he plays, Henderson stands completely naked in front of a full length locker room mirror and says, "Ricky’s the best," for several minutes."

by VORP is too nerdy on Dec 19, 2008 10:32 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pre-emptive strike

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 19, 2008 10:33 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was going for..

Zing!

"To this day and dating back 25 years, before every game he plays, Henderson stands completely naked in front of a full length locker room mirror and says, "Ricky’s the best," for several minutes."

by VORP is too nerdy on Dec 19, 2008 10:34 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

D'oh!

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 19, 2008 10:34 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Giambi on anything more than a 1 year deal is ridiculous

unless Barton is going to be included in a deal for a MLB SS. Except, that would make no sense, since both the Brewers and the Braves are set at 1B in terms of prospects (Gamel/Freeman).

Giving Barton one more year at Sactown is one thing. No way Barton stays down there for two more years though, obviously.

Although, Giambi on any deal isn’t a smart move IMO, a 1 year deal is tolerable.

"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."

by Blicks on Dec 20, 2008 8:05 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree.

"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."

by Blicks on Dec 20, 2008 11:16 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Younger, yes.

A better player? That’s a matter of opinion. And mine says
Giambi is still the better player…..even at 38. And in his prime? Forget about it!

by mrod on Dec 20, 2008 11:43 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sweet. Let's sign Giambi in his prime.

"I'm going to take a camera crew and march into Billy Beane's office and demand to know why instituting his newfangled cost-saving measures means that the run manufacturing plant had to get shut down." FJM

by Elvez on Dec 20, 2008 6:51 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Time travelling FTW!!!

"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."

by Blicks on Dec 20, 2008 6:53 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Saying one guy is better is a "matter of opinion" is not just a copout line

It’s wrong. Better at baseball is objective. It’s possible we don’t have all the necessary tools to judge this, but it’s not like judging the entertainment value of a movie (subjective). Either Player A is better than Player B or he’s not (or they’re exactly equal). That’s hardly opinion.

by thejd44 on Dec 20, 2008 11:07 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It is my opinion jd44

and you have yours just like everyone else does. You don’t have to agree with me, obviously, and it is in no way a copout line.

Saying that my opinion is wrong is absolutely ridiculous…..

by mrod on Dec 21, 2008 1:00 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 21, 2008 9:24 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No I didn't!

Besides, Shaq’ s obp% is terrible!!!!!!!!!!!

;’0

by mrod on Dec 21, 2008 12:54 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

thats why i think we should trade for tejada and not sign giambi it wouldnt take much

by DSamonek on Dec 20, 2008 9:58 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think we should trade for Tejada's last year anyway

And then it really makes sense to sign Giambi for at least 1 year, although it will take at least a 2 year deal to get him to sign.They might be getting older, yes, but a heart of the order that featured Cust, Holliday, Chavez, Giambi, Tejada is still bound to put some fear in the opposing pitcher.

by mrod on Dec 20, 2008 10:51 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He will get at least two years from the A's if nothing else.

Wrap it up already Billy! I don’t even want to here about any other offers. Just sign the man if that’s what both sides “really want”.

Happy Saturday everybody!

by mrod on Dec 20, 2008 11:48 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah lets get Margel Teixada

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Dec 20, 2008 11:15 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Young players need "some" veteran leadership

I am not a believer in “play all the young guys” when those young guys are not ready for primetime. Mix in a Giambi, Thomas or Dunn and those pups will get better much faster. I would love to see two accomplished hitters in our lineup in 2009 and we already have one in Holliday so I have faith that BB will find another soon.

Will Barton continue to progress if he only plays a limited role vs. plugging in a slugger at 1B? I think it’s worth the attempt at his age. Now if we could only find a SS worth risking the same deal from the opposite perspective. I actually prefer to go with Crosby for another year if we can’t find someone from outside the organization. Pennington may never be the answer.

Looking forward to Spring Training and the hope of another World Series title.

by ohtobe21likehuston on Dec 20, 2008 12:34 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What is...

Ellis
Chavez
Cust

Veteran leadership?

"RIP: UserID: 553"

by Masaryk on Dec 20, 2008 1:09 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well...

Ellis is not going to provide much power. Chavez may or may not even play. Cust is probably not on a major-league roster if not for the A’s philosophical differences but I do like the guy’s power. I’m talking about adding another veteran hitter who is actually feared by the opposition.

Looking forward to Spring Training and the hope of another World Series title.

by ohtobe21likehuston on Dec 20, 2008 1:13 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry,

I read it as “Veteran Leadership” as it, we need some guys who have been in the majors to help “educate” our youngsters on the in’s and out’s…..how to conduct oneself……..learn the ropes from….etc…….not hitting instructions…..

My bad.

"RIP: UserID: 553"

by Masaryk on Dec 20, 2008 2:50 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

NO GIAMBI!

He was my favorite player until he went to the Yankee$, he’s dead to me now. I don’t want to see the guy, who cried at the press conference introducing him as the Yankee$ new player, back in the uniform of my favorite team, it will make me puke.

by IronBruin on Dec 20, 2008 1:25 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Giambi would be great!

Production from 1st Base, and he can mentor Barton. Next is Tejada and Randy Johnson! I like an older A’s team!

by A'sfansince1970 on Dec 20, 2008 1:50 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm on the fence

The realist in me says no because his defense is subpar and his offense more than likely will regress leaving Yankee stadium and coming back to Oakland.

Then there’s the fan in me who gets another cup of the kool aid and says “Hell yeah!” Before this past year I didn’t pay as close attention to defensive metrics as I do now so it’s time to go back to those glory days. Plus, putting Chavez and Giambi and possibly Tejada back into the middle of our order is really why we love this game. I love the stories and that certainly is a story. I’m not bagging on anyone who really enjoys looking at the all telling stats, because I do it too, but sometimes I think it’s fun to step back and just let your inner ignorance take over and do something naughty. In this case it’s supporting the signing of Giambi because you just haven’t gotten over the glory days of this decade.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Dec 20, 2008 3:52 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You know, there isn't a lot of evidence to suggest that

Giambi’s swing isn’t well suited to McAfee. His (small sample) OPS last year was 1.300, the year before .857 – against above average pitching, in that he was facing Oakland. Career it’s 1.004.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 20, 2008 5:25 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just another bit o' numerology

According to the Bill James Handbook, over the past 3 years the Coliseum has been relatively neutral for LH power hitters. It’s been death on RH power hitters. Just for a quick bit of comparison, Giambi’s 2009 projected numbers are 244/388/484 with 29 HR in 446 AB. (That’s the James projection based on Giambi hitting at old Yankee Stadium, a park renowned for boosting LH power hitters.) Using MLE, those projected numbers translate to 235/362/465 with 28 HR in Oakland. That’s 40+ point hit in OPS, but an .827 OPS would have ranked 2nd best on the A’s last year.

And for anyone interested, using James’ 2009 projection and an MLE calculator, Holliday comes in with a 293/362/503 line with 40 doubles and 27 HR while playing for Oakland.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 20, 2008 7:00 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

see... grover agrees with my analysis

well, okay, it wasn’t really an analysis. Grover did the analysis. Giambi will be third in OPS on the 2009 Oakland A’s. Now, is that worth paying him $10 million for 2 years? I doubt that’s what Beane has in mind, but maybe it is… Even if it is what he has in mind, it’s not like the A’s can’t afford it. I’d rather see them add another bat than somebody like Randy Johnson.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Dec 20, 2008 8:28 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just out of morbid curiousity...

what kind of 2009 line does Barton come in with using your methodolgy?

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Dec 20, 2008 8:33 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And it's not my methodology

It’s James’ projection and Smith’s MLE calculations.

Barton is projected to hit 253/350/389. Take all this with a grain of salt.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 21, 2008 7:43 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

.827 OPS for a 1B who can't play defense

Is really nothing special.

But I just can’t believe that Barton is actually that bad. Not only am I factoring the defense and Giambi’s decline, but Barton’s improvement.

by thejd44 on Dec 20, 2008 11:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

just like you factored in Crosby's improvement...

and, Johnson’s improvement. And, Street’s improvement. Yeah, they’ll all improve. Except, maybe they won’t. Barton probably will not be as good as Giambi in the next two years. In fact, I’m willing to say he won’t be. So, let’s win now and leave Barton’s improvement to when he’s 25 years old or so.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Dec 21, 2008 1:01 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I for one am not worried about Giambi hitting at the Colisuem

You’re right Nico…..JG has always hit very well in Oakland and he should continue to do so….

by mrod on Dec 20, 2008 5:51 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Might as well also consider that....

Giambi has not had the luxury of hitting against Yankee pitching recently!

Obviously, the Yankees went ahead and ruined that for him this offseason.

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Dec 20, 2008 7:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"Should" might be a bit strong

He’s well past his prime plus he’s had some pretty serious knee and hamstring problems. It wouldn’t surprise me to see Giambi struggle at age 38.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Dec 21, 2008 1:53 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also....this isn't my reason

But should we really ignore the fact that we can have the most signature A’s infield of recent history intact for 2009? Giambi, Ellis, Tejada, Chavez….

So they are getting old, so each one has an Achilles heel of one kind or another. The fanatic fan in me is screaming that the stars are aligned and that this is more than just random…

Either way, the bottom line is that this infield is better than our current infield, all signs point to DOOOOOOOOOOOO IT!!! Imagine, if we caught fire and went to the playoffs, it would be the most gleeful season in my young life of fandom.

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Dec 20, 2008 7:21 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No thanks

They could be like the current Phoenix Suns. You look at their roster with Shaq, Steve Nash, Grant Hill, Amare Stoudemire, and Jason Richardson and think, if this were 2001 or 2002… but what’s it’s going to get you in 2009?

It was fun with Giambi and Tejada in their day but that day is over. It’s time to move on. The A’s are working on building something big. Let’s not have it sidetracked by a ill-advised trip down memory lane. If Giambi and Tejada had spent their careers entirely with the Yankees and Astros (respectively), I doubt there’d be much interest in signing them. They’d just be two declining veterans we’d want the Angels to sign to long-term contracts. At this point in their careers, they’re not going to put the A’s in the playoffs and they’re not going to sell tickets. (Anyone remember how the Bash Brothers reunion in ’97 was supposed to put butts in the seats?)

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Dec 21, 2008 2:22 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It looks as though the old...

…“They’re young but they can play” maketing strategy could no longer be used.

Perhaps: we’re not all that young but we sure get paid.

by LowcountryJoe on Dec 21, 2008 5:10 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We're not all that young, but we can pray.

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Dec 21, 2008 4:19 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A's almost added giles late last yr

so anything wouldnt surprise me

i wouldnt mind trying again, but his legal issues now might prevent that

A’s like every other yr are back to FA bargains…furcal was their best attempt at getting a top tier FA.

dunn says he wants cubs, abreu asking for 16mll (which he wont get)
burrell maybe 10mill+
no bradley reunion

unless ypu’re in socal, boston, ny forget about manny/teixiera

giambi left is the next realistic, short term FA bat out there even though its not a position need

the rest: griffey, alou, anderson, edmonds, thomas, sexson etc

maybe just keep the money and go the trade route

by Asfan4ever723 on Dec 21, 2008 7:29 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't like this one bit.

First of all you really are getting another Jack Cust. Actually we may as well clone Jack Cust. A slow, poor defensive player. Left handed.

                     Avg. OBP SLG OPS RBI HR
Cust .231 .375 .476 .851 77 33
Giambi .247 .373 .502 .875 96 32

Granted Giambi looks a little better on paper, but I don’t think another Jack Cust is the answer.

by JamesCaprio on Dec 22, 2008 10:37 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You'd prefer another Hannahan? Another Crosby? Another Eeeeeemeeel Brown?

Heck, another Ellis? Like it or not, Cust was Oakland’s best hitter last year and it wasn’t all that close.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 22, 2008 10:51 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just because

Cust was Oakland’s best hitter. doesn’t make him a good hitter. I choose no of the above. Ill take Dunn/Burrell.

by JamesCaprio on Dec 22, 2008 4:07 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just because Cust was Oakland’s best hitter. doesn’t make him a good hitter.

This is one of those true, yet irrelevant statements, along the lines of “The sun will rise tomorrow!” and “If I’m Dracula, then Nico is the King of England.”

Cust being the A’s best hitter isn’t what made him good. On the other hand, his equivalent average of .304 kind of did.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 22, 2008 5:33 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Off with your head, Dracula!

This is fun.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 22, 2008 5:37 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How can you say

it is irrelevant? Cust being a bad hitter is something we should be concerned about. Lets not lie. Sure he fits into the A’s prototypical mash home runs and get on base player, but he wasn’t really that good at it. Of all the players who hit 30 or more HR’s Cust was second lowest in RBI’s only Hanley Ramirez had less, and I really think there is a distinct difference between the two lol. I like his walks and OBP, but the K’s are just brutal.

Just curious how do you get a equivalent BA of .304.

by JamesCaprio on Dec 22, 2008 9:11 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're focusing on the outs (strickouts!!!!111)

while PT is focusing on the “safes” – 37.5% of the time Cust does NOT get out, strickout or otherwise, and 33 of those safes left the yard. Is he a great RBI man? No, though he’d be a better one if the A’s had more guys on base. Is he a bad hitter? Why no, in fact he’s a very good one.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 23, 2008 9:42 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How do you get Equivalent Average?

It’s less cumbersome than it looks— it’s really just adding up the “good things” a hitter does and then dividing by the number of opportunities. It’s then adjusted for park effects and converted to a scale which mirrors batting average.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 23, 2008 11:44 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Then you just take the square root of b-squared minus 4ac

and solve for x. It’s pretty simple.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 23, 2008 2:09 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah wow.

That seems very simple lol.

I don’t think that is a really reliable stat. When you have a standard of “good things” a hitter does it seems a little bit subjective. Is it good that Jack Cust is too slow to get out of the way of a fastball? I guess the result is good, but it isn’t to say that he is a good hitter. According to this stat guys like Michael Bourn and Willy Taveras to be over .300 hitters. I’m also not sure how stolen bases can play a part in how good a hitter is.

I ran the numbers on Willy Taveras, and I could have made a mistake, I’m as good at math as Jermey is sliding, and a Taveras’ equivalent average is .717. Now Willy is a good player, but he isn’t that good. The stat also doesn’t take any extra base hits, or RBI’s into consideration. I don’t think this is a reliable stat lol.

But I digress, I just don’t think Giambi is the answer, he is short term, doesn’t play any defense, and he is only getting worse at this stage in his career. Now that I think about it, we are probably better off saving up to re-signing Holliday, and maybe signing a 3B in Beltre/Glaus/Jones.

by JamesCaprio on Dec 23, 2008 3:18 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

taveras

had an eqa of .239. eqa is adjusts for the park, difficultly of the league and maybe a few other things i cant remember right now. it also does account for extra base hits by measuring the total bases a player accumulates, which is lifted significantly by extra base hits. rbi is not reliable because guys such as cust who had teammates with horrible obp’s or leadoff hitters do not have nearly as many rbi opportuniaties as many. imo, eqa is a good stat because it pretty much calculates how good a hitter is and puts it into a comprehensible stat.

"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"

by travdog6 on Dec 24, 2008 12:42 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How can...

you prove a parks effects and the league’s difficulty on paper? Getting hit by a pitch means your a good hitter? This stat seems full of open ends to me. I’m not going to set much store by it.

by JamesCaprio on Dec 24, 2008 2:53 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How can...

you prove a parks effects and the league’s difficulty on paper? Getting hit by a pitch means your a good hitter? You get bases for errors, and pass balls so TB is not really including XBH. This stat seems full of open ends to me. I’m not going to set much store by it.

by JamesCaprio on Dec 24, 2008 2:54 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

im not sure of the exact math

but you prove park effects and league difficulty by comparing players. total bases in fact does not count passed balls or errors, and only hits count toward your total bases (it does have a misleading name). and getting hit by a pitch is good, so i dont konw why you wouldnt reward a batter for it

"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"

by travdog6 on Dec 24, 2008 3:12 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

HBP

Are good of course, but they don’t reflect on a hitters ability to hit. Same with stealing bases. However more and more I am realizing that “EBA” really shouldn’t be equivalent to batting average, but more of just an offensive rating.

Baseball and their misleading stats for ya.

by JamesCaprio on Dec 24, 2008 8:34 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this is true

eqa is supposed to be a statistic used to tell you the total offensive value of a player. i can see where it could be confusing. its not really equivalent batting average, but rather just equivalent average.

"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"

by travdog6 on Dec 25, 2008 11:03 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A HUGE YYYEEESSSSS On Bringing G Back to Oakland!!!

But when they start scheming us the way these guys did, and we weren't particularly ready for it, anything can happen."

by saint on Dec 22, 2008 1:52 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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