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FanGraphs looks at defense

If you haven't been following Dave Cameron's series on defense at FanGraphs, I recommend you go and check it out. The focus of the articles has been on adjusting defensive metrics by position.

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I'm fanposting now because Cameron's latest article is on 2B/3B, and he uses Ellis and Chavez as examples.  Specifically the article gets into what makes second basemen and third basemen different

Despite 2B being considered a premium defensive position, there’s little evidence that the players who occupy the second base position are actually better defenders than the guys who play third base. Both groups come from the failed SS pile of players, but there’s one big difference - the guys who end at third base can hit a lot better than the guys who end up at second base. Why?


I strongly recommend you read the series from the beginning for context.

Enjoy

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my comment to Dave
Uh, Dave … you don’t seem to be especially familiar with Ellis or Chavez. First of all, yes, both were failed shortstops — but IIRC, the last time Chavez played short in anything other than an emergency-sub situation was high school. Ellis came up through the Royals system (so it wasn’t the A’s who determined by his body type that he should play 2B) playing both SS and 2B about equally (so the Royals didn’t sort him to 2B), and when he was acquired by the A’s, they had Miguel Tejada playing SS (so the A’s only sorted him to 2B out of roster considerations). What’s more, Ellis’s throwing shoulder was destroyed by a collision with Bobby Crosby the year after he was acquired; he’s made a remarkable non-surgical comeback, but his shoulder is no longer capable of making the throws from SS or 3B. What’s more, yes, Chavez is taller — but he’s also put on a lot of weight since coming up to the majors–and as a third baseman; and I suspect that weight profile is similar across a lot of third basemen (of course, part of the sorting you hypothesize could be selecting for guys with frames that can support more body mass).

The overall pattern you identify may be true, but (a) it’s more complicated than you describe, and (b) Chavez and Ellis aren’t the best tandem to illustrate it.

I'll send you a postcard from Space Mountain. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 18, 2008 11:05 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

It's certainly an interesting article.

I’m not sure Chavez couldn’t play 2B, nor that pre-injury Ellis couldn’t play 3B, but each would have a high bar to clear to be as good as they are at the current positions, as well as the other is at his current position.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 18, 2008 12:59 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for posting this, oakinboston

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 22, 2008 6:06 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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