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Around SBN: Notre Dame's Turnaround: How Have The Irish Done It?

Burrell over Giambi?

The Hot Stove Rumors has Giambi hoping for a contract with the Yankees.

 

Based upon the Phillies signing Ibanez to a 3-year deal and effectively giving Burrell his walking papers, I vote we push for Burrell over Giambi.

I've had the pleasure of seeing Burrell play a bunch for the Phillies and can say that he is a hardnosed player that pushes himself on and off the field to compete at a high level.  This is a quality that us A's fans really look for in our plucky bunch of players and a big reason Swisher/Ellis/Scutaro have been such favorites.

Burrell is also 5 years younger than Giambi and is only 32, a great age for a strong veteran player.  He's been banged up a little from time to time, but he hasn't spent any time on the DL of late - a huge fact for a team plagued by injuries - while Giambi spent a good deal on the DL in 2007.  He's managed to play in about 150 games a year since 2001 which shows his durability.

As an outfielder he does have lead feet, but a strong arm that would make him a better option in the field over Cust any day of the week. Originally a 3B he was moved to 1B with Scott Rolen manning the corner and then moved to the OF when they picked up a regular there, so he's played the field and could be a spot replacement or regular.

He has great power numbers and his OBP (.367-.400 over last 4 years) has been excellent - certainly comparable to Giambi and a better average over the past 4 years.

I'm not sure what it would take to sign Burrell, but at the end of his contract he pulled in about $14M while Giambi hosed the Yanks for $23M.  I would think Burrell would be a great candidate for a 1 or 2 year contract in which he could play the Frank Thomas role - guy looking to prove he's got great power to share.  He'd also would likely sign for less than Giambi - especially if he could be given a lot of time in the field.

Sure it could be pretty hard to make him come west, considering he spent his entire college/pro career on the east coast, but I think some good ol' fashioned sunshine and humidity free air, might just be what the doctor ordered for him to jumpstart his career.

I think it's the intangibles that do it for me on this one.  Giambi left a sour taste in my mouth when he left as we couldn't find that power bat to get us over the hump of the 1st round for the next few years and we lost the Big Three.  Pat was the face of the Phillies franchise and has always been a strong competitor, never putting himself before the team, and I really root for players that push themselves for their love of the game over the paycheck.

 

Anyways, just a thought as the A's move forward in their quest for 2009.

 

Comment 49 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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I'd rather have Dunn

4 years younger than Burell, higher OPS.

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Dec 15, 2008 10:43 AM PST reply actions  

True

I would agree, but I think that Dunn is going to have a lot more interest and most likely looking for a multi year deal, perhaps with the Nationals.

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Dec 15, 2008 10:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Plus, Dunn has played first base.

Not particularly well, but he’s not as bad at 1B as Burrell is in LF.

by mikev on Dec 15, 2008 11:02 AM PST up reply actions  

where's the interest so far?

I haven’t even seen rumors about any offers extended to Dunn…it’s surprising really

"Sweeney's a white Andre Ethier."--a white, drunk Billy Beane

by Cutthemullet on Dec 16, 2008 7:47 AM PST up reply actions  

"a better option in the field over Cust any day of the week"?

UZR has Burrell costing nearly 30 runs on defense over the last two years.

Just what day of the week are you thinking of?

Save Rajai Davis

by oakinboston on Dec 15, 2008 10:52 AM PST reply actions  

ha.

Well i did say he has lead feet. But i also was trying to point out that Giambi is awful himself, and Cust has looked almost clownish when holding up a corner OF spot. I think I was figuring to pop Burrell in at the 1B slot while making spot starts in the OF.

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Dec 15, 2008 10:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Mmmmmm....

I think Burrel’s natural position is at Daunting Horse…..
as in DH! But, I like his bat. Just not sure how those #s would hold up at the Coliseum.

by mrod on Dec 15, 2008 11:04 AM PST reply actions  

I like Pat the Bat but he can go cold for months

I am talking ice cold, (Lambeau in February cold).

"AN, Reducing Work Productivity since 2003", connie mack 11/06/08

by adragon on Dec 15, 2008 11:04 AM PST reply actions  

That said I would take him over Giambi

MY list for a FA power bat would go like this, (not counting Tex, Manny who we have no shot at).
1) Dunn
2)Burell
3)T Wigg
4) No Body
5) My uncle’s cousin’s niece
6) Dead dog by the side of the road
7) Giambi

"AN, Reducing Work Productivity since 2003", connie mack 11/06/08

by adragon on Dec 15, 2008 11:11 AM PST up reply actions  

I am a little bitter still

Just a smidge, what can I say

"AN, Reducing Work Productivity since 2003", connie mack 11/06/08

by adragon on Dec 15, 2008 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

You are probably right

Her game is hockey…scary, (led her league in PIM last three years)

"AN, Reducing Work Productivity since 2003", connie mack 11/06/08

by adragon on Dec 15, 2008 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

future star in roller derby

"Sweeney's a white Andre Ethier."--a white, drunk Billy Beane

by Cutthemullet on Dec 16, 2008 7:49 AM PST up reply actions  

you needn't specify a month

it’s tundra after all

"Sweeney's a white Andre Ethier."--a white, drunk Billy Beane

by Cutthemullet on Dec 16, 2008 7:48 AM PST up reply actions  

I wouldn't mind him

But, Dunn’s definitely not worth it and Burrell may not either. Personally, I’d like a reasonably priced Giambi because of the sentimental value.

by T-Money on Dec 15, 2008 11:11 AM PST reply actions  

I've been thinking about Burrell for a few weeks

Defensively better than Dunn & Giambi. Not saying much, but he’s not the worst guy we could put out there.

Healthier too.

A RH stick (Right now so far over the left side…we sign Giambi and we’ll tip over). Right now there’s not much on the RH side but Holliday. I don’t think Ellis & Suz are making managers worry about their bullpens.

Local. Discount?

Depending on what he’s asking, could be a good move if it’s not too costly. If we could get both him and Furcal, then…then…well you make up your own roster. But if we don’t get Furcal, then we should at least look at Pat.

by Stew's Crew on Dec 15, 2008 11:28 AM PST reply actions  

im no expert on defensive metrics

but from what I can tell, Burrell is literally one of the worst guys you could put out there. worse than Dunn.

Save Rajai Davis

by oakinboston on Dec 15, 2008 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

What do we know about his ability to play 1st base?

I’m interested in that he used to be a 3Bman…

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Dec 15, 2008 12:04 PM PST up reply actions  

If we sign Furcal...

… our next move should be to sign a veteran SP to hold the rotation together.

With Furcal, our offense is basically just as good as the Angels’ offense (assuming they don’t get Teixeira — which they won’t — and don’t use their Teixeira money to sign a LF, like Burrell). However, our rotation, as it stands right now, is far worse than the Angels’ rotation, and I honestly can’t see a Duke-Gallagher-Eveland-Braden-Gonzalez rotation competing for a playoff spot, even with our upgraded offense.

If we’re get Furcal, we should turn our attention to finding short-term, low-risk SP options (e.g., Randy Johnson, Paul Byrd, Jon Lieber, Freddy Garcia) that would give us a shot to win this year (well, at least Johnson would) while not blocking our prospects…

by Uncle Charlie on Dec 15, 2008 12:58 PM PST reply actions  

Point being...

… I think chasing Dunn or Burrell would be an unnecessary waste of resources.

by Uncle Charlie on Dec 15, 2008 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

how about a flyer on Daniel Cabrera?

"He's pretty nasty," Gardenhire said. "The last pitch to Harris, we went and watched it, it's on the black. It cut the outside corner of the plate, the tip of it, and that's pretty nasty."
(Ron Gardenhire on Brad Ziegler)

by catfish hunter on Dec 15, 2008 7:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Depends.

He’s lost quite a bit of velocity on his fastball. Before signing him, I’d try to find out why. No point paying a guy to rehab.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Dec 15, 2008 7:33 PM PST up reply actions  

NO

no no no no no no no no no no no no no!

Please, Daniel Cabrera lost all his Strickouts and his walks are still just as bad! His k/bb is just about 1. He’s bad, and he’s not worth a single inning on a major league roster.

"I'm on hold for now"- Bobby Crosby

by DyeLongJustice on Dec 15, 2008 7:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd take a flier on him,

but only to read his bio.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2008 8:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I for one, would rather have Burrell

but I understand the flexibility for the team if Dunn or GIambi were signed over him. Burrell is a butcher in the field, and probably cannot play 1st for his life either. With GIambi you can play him at first and at least know what your going to get without holding much back as far as youth..(assuming Barton is in AAA or the bench, which I really dont want to happen).

by son of wes on Dec 15, 2008 1:30 PM PST reply actions  

Numbers

Burell’s Offense

Using his 2009 Marcel wOBA (and an arbitrary 550 PA) to convert into runs above average: ((.367-.331)/1.15)*60 = 18.17

Eyeballing his last three years in LF, his UZR/150 is going to be about -15 runs below average

This comes out to be a net total of 3.17 runs above average. Now comes the last step, adjusting for position. If Burrell were to play all his games in LF, he would be (3.17-7.5) -4.33 runs below average.

Redoing the numbers using first base (and since I don’t have data for his UZR/150 at 1b, I’m going to guess that he’d be -10 runs per 150 games), he comes out to be 8.17 runs above average without a positional adjustment. Throwing the adjustment in, he’s going to be (8.17-12.5) -4.33 runs below average, again.

Giambi, at first base (and using his marcel wOBA for 550 PA) is going to be:
((.359-.335)/1.15)*550 = 11.48 runs above average.

Giambi’s career UZR/150 at 1b is -3.9. So, add those two together, and you get 7.58 runs above average. Throw in the positional adjustment, and he’s (7.58-12.5) -4.92 runs below average.

Just for funsies, here are Barton’s numbers (keeping all metrics the same)

Marcel wOBA runs above average: ((.333-.335)/1.15*150 = -.26 runs below average

Career UZR/150 at 1b is 6.8 runs above average

Net runs: 5.54 runs above average

Positonal adjustment: 5.54-12.5 = -6.96

Of course, all my numbers used here are set at arbitrary points, but I tried to be practical. Burell is probably the best upgrade assuming his 1b defense doesn’t suck TOO bad, but he’s going to be quite expensive for such a marginal upgrade. If I’m going to sign someone, I think I’d want to go with Giambi. Of course, if no one gets signed, it’s a good thing to remember that Barton is young and has hit well in AAA. He is likely to improve, and he is already at or near league average as a 1b, so the only way is up for him.

"I'm on hold for now"- Bobby Crosby

by DyeLongJustice on Dec 15, 2008 2:43 PM PST reply actions  

Mess Up

Barton’s offense, using 2009 Marcel wOBA is going to be -.96 runs below average, not -.26, for a difference of -.70. So, his net runs above average is going to be 4.84 and his positon adjusted net runs will be -7.66.

"I'm on hold for now"- Bobby Crosby

by DyeLongJustice on Dec 15, 2008 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Using Marcel for Barton = no-no

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2008 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

so were a lot of other things i just wasted my time doing...

gotta get more practice not screwing up, or so they say

"I'm on hold for now"- Bobby Crosby

by DyeLongJustice on Dec 15, 2008 6:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd go for None of the Above and save the bucks for a midseason salary dump by

another team.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2008 4:59 PM PST reply actions  

No Giambi

Burrell is Cust with a better arm in LF, but since Holliday is there, he only makes sense as a 1B. He is another low average, whiff and walk guy, just a smidge above Cust again. I’d take him over Giambi because he’s RH and could learn to play better 1B in a week. As much as I like Burrell (he’d put women in the seats), I don’t think another guy who loves to take 3-2 pitches with runners on base is what we need. What about Nomar? He can play anywhere in in the IF, and you can see how Barton does, and if he fails you have an above average veteran for next to nothing as a regular.

by jggsf on Dec 15, 2008 5:07 PM PST reply actions  

I'd rather have Dunn

of the three 1B/DH options on the FA Market, and then you can consider trades on the side (NJ, Adrian Gonzalez, etc…)

I want POWER. We’ve had enough guys who can’t hit the ball out of the infield the past few years, I want guys who can hit the long ball.

So give me a lineup of;

CF Sweeney
SS Furcal
1B Dunn
LF Holliday
DH Cust
3B Chavez
RF Buck
C1 Suzuki
2B Ellis

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Dec 15, 2008 5:22 PM PST up reply actions  

why not Furcal leading off and Holiday in the 3-hole?

Furcal
Sweeney
Holliday
Dunn
etc

also, you can just use “C” instead of “C1”. Let’s not go starting a new position…I’ve caught for a lot of years but I’ve never played C1.

The Maharg makes me look like an idiot.

by carp on Dec 15, 2008 5:31 PM PST up reply actions  

C1? Dang -

You’ve sunk my battleship!

One reason against your lineup is just four lefties in a row (Dunn, Cust, Chavez, Buck). Why make it easy to be LOOGYed? I do prefer the idea of Sweeney hitting with Furcal on first (right side hole open) better than vice versa (Sweeney less of a base stealer, Furcal a switch-hitter not a lefty).

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2008 5:35 PM PST up reply actions  

But Sweeney hardly pulls the ball. I guess he could do the hit-and-run though.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2008 6:20 PM PST up reply actions  

My reasoning was that Sweeney has no power at all, so I'd like to avoid GIDP's

As for why I use C1 and C2 (basically Catcher and Backup Catcher), its because when you write a lineup, all the other positions are 2 letters, and the 1 letter position makes everything line up wrong.

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Dec 15, 2008 6:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Or make all of the positions one letter or number

C
1
2
3
S
L
C
R

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2008 6:53 PM PST up reply actions  

maybe just use an extra space?

1B Jesus in Cleats
C GodRodriguez

The Maharg makes me look like an idiot.

by carp on Dec 16, 2008 12:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Sweeney pulls the ball, just not all the time

He would benefit from the right side hole.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2008 6:30 PM PST up reply actions  

From his hit chart

you can see that his grounders primarily go to the right side of the diamond.

It’s almost impossible for a hitter not to exhibit strong pull tendencies with ground balls, just because of the way the bat is shaped. Even an extreme slap hitter like Ichiro hits well over 50% of his ground balls to the pull side of the pitcher’s mound.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2008 6:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow it's true.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2008 6:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Interesting - that chart only reflects home games

unless you click on a specific other park, in which case it only shows that park, right? I’m surprised they don’t have an “all stadia” option – or if they do, I’m surprised I don’t see it. Well, not really on that last part.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2008 7:22 PM PST up reply actions  

An annoying aspect of their hit charts

but, c’est la vie. Complain to MLB’s IT department.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2008 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Anyone who has a right-side hole

has too much of a good thing.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2008 8:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Dunn + Cust = K extravaganza

Giambi would be better for the rest of the lineup.

by riznotch on Dec 16, 2008 4:48 PM PST reply actions  

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