Is Swisher Coming Back?
by petitceebee on Nov 5, 2008 9:07 AM PST
175 comments
Nick Swisher might be coming back to Oaktown?
I would love to see him back and playing his natural position at First Base but what happens to Barton? What about the Giambi rumors now that the A's have re-hired his personal trainer? Isn't the outfield crowded enough? And most importantly, who do we have to give up to get him back?
Wasn't Gio Gonzales acquired by Williams, traded, re-acquired and traded again? Maybe he makes a third trip back to the Windy City?
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as much as i'd love to see it happen, i think there is a pretty small chance that it will happen
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra
by Cheezombie on Nov 5, 2008 9:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Swisher has been a little disappointing
that place is a launching a pad
He should have had that many home runs at home at least and the fact that he hit .219 overall shows he’s Daric Barton with some pop in that home park.
I always liked Swish for his personality but everytime I picture him at the plate, I see him swinging over the top of a slider and missing it by 10 feet
by Trainman on Nov 5, 2008 9:30 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Added to that
He hit .247 at home and a piss poor .189 on the road.
I think the fact that Williams has him on the trading block explains it all. Yeah, most if not all players are trade bait given the right price but I think the price for Swish is not that high.
by Trainman on Nov 5, 2008 9:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Makes him an ideal buy-low candidate, but where does he fit?
by CapgrasDelusion on Nov 5, 2008 12:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
According to Sean Smith he's actually better defensively in corner OF
Assuming one of them big-bat types is playing DH and Cust is in left, you kind of have to stick a plus CF out there in Gonzalez or, I suppose, Davis, and then trade off Buck or Sweeney while keeping the other as 4th outfielder. I guess Cunningham goes to AAA for a season.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 12:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or acquire Franklin Gutierrez in a Street trade
and put him in CF. Move Sweeney in a deal for Beltre…..keep Gonzo and/or Cunningham at AAA until the inevitable Buck injury/implosion.
by CapgrasDelusion on Nov 5, 2008 2:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't Franklin Gutierrez just a lower-upside version of Carlos Gonzalez?
Definitely not what I’d be targeting in a Street trade.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure how good Gonzo will be defensively..
but Gutierrez is something special. He has the highest +/- total of any RF over the past three seasons, while playing something like 80-90 games a year out there.
I don’t view him as the centerpiece to any such deal. I was thinking of something along the lines of a Franklin Gutierrez/Josh Rodriguez/Jonathan Meloan package.
by CapgrasDelusion on Nov 5, 2008 4:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Patrol Craft is projected at +9 runs in center next season by Sean Smith
On the other hand, Gutierrez is projected at +19!
That seems somewhat ridiculous to me, given that it puts him better than 5 runs more than known defensive stalwarts like Granderson, Sizemore, and Carlos Gomez, but who knows.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 4:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can we trade CarGon?
I’d put him in a trade with Hotlanta or BrewCrew if it would net me one of their uber SS’s. What if there was a Street-CGon for Yunel Escobar (if he’s not in the Peavy deal) or for Alcides Escobar. Of course, there will have to be other necessary pieces added in, but that would be the gist of it. I know CarGon is young, and VERY likely to prove my doubts wrong, but I just don’t like the guy’s potential upside as much as I guess I should. If he could just get the K/BB ratio up, I’d be a firm believer. I know he’s young, and I could still see him breaking out, but we have so many OF options and so little SS options.
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 5, 2008 8:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The A's have few potential "real impact" position players
and CarGon is one of them. He may not have looked it at times last year, but he has a chance to develop into a .270, 25-30 HR, 100 RBI, “plus defense” CFer. You could do worse than “Beltran-lite”.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 5, 2008 8:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you suggesting one of the Escobars would not be a "real impact" player?
Yunel is one of the top 5 SS in baseball. I’m not sure what more you want out of him.
Alcides would be a bigger risk, but would also obviously be a LOT easier to acquire talent-wise…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 8:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't the kind of deal where one team swindles the other
It would be more along the lines of trading equal value to get better fits within the organization. I dunno how CGon fits in Brewer land, but their Escobar is blocked by Hardy. As far as Atlanta, they could definitely use CGon, but then they don’t have a real SS after that, although I haven’t looked at their minor league system.
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 5, 2008 8:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Brent Lillibridge would be the next guy down, but he had a horrible year this year
I can’t imagine Atlanta’s going to be exactly eager to get rid of Yunel, although he has been bandied about in talks regarding Jake Peavy. Still, “proven ace” is long way from “theoretically high ceiling OF prospect coming off a mediocre season.”
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 9:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Peavy is going to cost more than he is worth
Petco keeps his numbers lower than they would be other places. While he is good, he isn’t top-notch-no-doubt-ace-good, just pretty darn good. But ya, If I’m Atlanta, I wouldn’t give up two of my top prospects for Peavy, but I would give up one.
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 5, 2008 9:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's been legitimately the best pitcher in the NL over the last 5 seasons, Petco or no Petco
Any definition of “ace” that excludes Peavy is not one I will have any truck with.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 11:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, in a better year
he would have stayed at AAA for the entire season, only getting a cup of coffee with the big club in September.
by OaklandSi on Nov 6, 2008 8:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
swisher's babip this year was .251
down from .308 and .287 the previous 2 years. His lefty babip was something like .200, where he normally kills lefties. Despite that, his OBP was still .332 which isn’t horrible. Not good, but not horrible. From some strange reason(i say bad luck) his away ops is .596 and his home ops is closer to his career norms with .878. Sure he had a bad season, but i say it’s luck, and the Sox would have to be idiots to trade him at this point. But hey, i’d take him, and Beane would too.
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra
by Cheezombie on Nov 5, 2008 9:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've always thought Kenny Williams was a moron, now it is official
It also seems clear Williams would like to upgrade the Sox’s speed. One insider insists that Colorado center fielder Willy Taveras is on their radar screen.
…
Taveras, like Lugo, is a leadoff hitter, though he hit only .251 with a .308 on-base percentage last year. But he stole 68 bases, which fits right into manager Ozzie Guillen’s need for speed.
Gotta love those “leadoff” hitters with below-average OBP.
Now, if the A’s can just get the White Sox to deal again …
"However, at Elias, I think they keep track of the amount of sunflower seeds spit in a dugout each night." - Brad Ziegler, 8/7/08
by doctorK on Nov 5, 2008 9:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
give them rajai davis
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra
by Cheezombie on Nov 5, 2008 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Give them Cheezombie then
Play more Conan!
by oaklandSMASH on Nov 5, 2008 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm hesitant to call any GM who's won a World Series and has contending teams a "moron"
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 5, 2008 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Being lucky doesn't make you not a moron
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 5, 2008 6:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, so does being unlucky not make you not a moron?
EXPLODING HEAD
au contra ire
by JediLeroy on Nov 5, 2008 6:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I need another negative in there
au contra ire
by JediLeroy on Nov 5, 2008 6:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm negative enough for all of us
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 5, 2008 6:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think Ken Williams' "moronness" is overrated
He’s made a lot of very good moves, too, resulting in a World Championship followed soon after by a division title. Give the guy a little credit.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 5, 2008 7:10 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, he's definitely not a moron. He wouldn't be a GM otherwise.
He’s made some good decisions and some dumb ones. Though he has gotten extremely lucky.
au contra ire
by JediLeroy on Nov 5, 2008 7:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His moves do seem to work out, don't they?
I’m not sure how “good” he is in a conventional sense but he does have a certain predatory cunning about him.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 7:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His "good" moves always seem to be the ones nobody notices
Like the trades he made for Quentin and Danks. The big splash moves (Cabrera, Griffey, Everett/Alomar twice) are the ones that seem to fail. Even the Thome deal, while not bad because Thome is a productive player, actually might be hurting the team because they have other guys who should be DHing now (Dye), and they haven’t had a good CF since Rowand left.
by thejd44 on Nov 5, 2008 11:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also,
Freddy Garcia for Gavin Floyd and Gio. Not only did he get back Gio, he also got a useful back of the rotation pitcher in Floyd.
As for Thome, keep in mind that Philly are paying about $22M, about half of his contract. KW got Thome at about $7M a year. Given that Thome has given them 3 full seasons of 155, 150, and 123 OPS+, it’s a good deal.
Dye might need to DH, but it’s simply whether Rowand at CF for 2 seasons, and Dye at DH, would be better than Dye in a corner, and Thome at DH for 3 years, with Thome only costing a few million more than Rowand per year
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 6, 2008 6:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Floyd is better than a back of the rotation pitcher
As for the Thome/Rowand deal, Dye is terrible defensively. Plus, the White Sox did give up 2 years of cheap Rowand for Thome. I’m not sure if the White Sox are going to pick up Thome’s ’09 option but I assume they will.
Also, I’m not saying it’s a terrible deal. I’m just not sure it was a really good one.
I suppose the Todd Ritchie deal back in 2002 would be a much better big time trade that failed (of course, the guys he gave up turned out to be mediocre at best).
by thejd44 on Nov 6, 2008 10:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm being conservative on Floyd
While I’m not a DIPSomaniac, and tend to argue against DIPSomaniacs, I want to see more than one season of DIPS defying before I believe that he has any significant skill at controlling hits on balls in play.
He’s a flyball pitcher with not ok, but all that impressive K / BB rates. Back of the rotation might be a bit too harsh, but I see him and Armando Galarraga as fairly similar pitchers. OKish innings eaters. Not that that’s not valuable.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 6, 2008 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
with OK, but not all the impressive
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 6, 2008 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's not as good as his 2008 W-L record
But I think he’s a league-average starter, and to me league-average is around a #3 starter.
by thejd44 on Nov 6, 2008 8:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, I was mostly being a smartass
I save my true disdain for bozos like Bavasi.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 5, 2008 7:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can definitely think of worse GM's than Kenny Williams
and I’m DEFINITELY not a fan of Sabean. But I’d have to say that one of my least favorite GM’s is Cashman. Is he necessarily a bad GM? No. But some of his signings have seemed very questionable to me (Carl Pavano, anyone?) and the dude still let’s Jeter play SS. While their farm system is now starting to get stronger, it’s usually been a weak weak system. Of course, who needs a farm system when you can sign anyone you want, but still…look at the Red Sox. Anyone with that kind of cash resource should always be able to put a contending team on the field, no matter what. While Cash is good at signing high priced players, I think that other GM’s could be better at it.
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 5, 2008 8:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I have a weird affinity for Rajai
I bet Beane could get something good out of the Sox minor league system for him.
Oh, wait, the White Sox don’t believe in maintaining a minor league system. Never mind.
by thejd44 on Nov 5, 2008 11:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
did you know ken williams was on the stanford football team in 1982?
aka The Play
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra
by Cheezombie on Nov 5, 2008 10:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Billy might have been too
if he didn’t take the money and sign with the Mets.
I think he was offered football and baseball scholarship to Stanford.
I think that was ’80 or ’81…
Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay...in his prime...like 3 years ago.
by carp on Nov 5, 2008 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah they were planning on him being their next john elway
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra
by Cheezombie on Nov 5, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They want more speed?
Sure, Hannahan is a fast runner. Hannahan for Swisher, Barton to 3B, Swisher back to 1B. Throw in Rajai Davis, too, if you need to sweeten the pot.
by mikev on Nov 5, 2008 9:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Anything that gets rid of Hannahan
is an excellent deal. Swish is a good 1st baseman
by Trainman on Nov 5, 2008 10:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, this is a predicament
I would love to have Swish The Dish back but I also want to see Giambino back in the green n’ gold. How would that work unless the A’s traded one of their existing outfielders? CarGon stays for sure and I’m pretty sure that one of Buck, Sweeney, or AC is gonna stay as well. So, one of those fellas would have to be somewhere so you have a place to put Swish…….and if Cust is here then you really got yourself one hell of a clusterf*%k!
by mrod on Nov 5, 2008 10:11 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why do people always want to move Barton to 3B ?
He didn’t do well at 3B when they tried it in AAA and if his bat isn’t good enough for 1B why would you send him to 3B? Isn’t that one of the problems we have with Hannahan at 3B?
We better options at third with Baisley and Guzman that we do with Barton. Now if you want to send Barton to AAA for a year to try again at 3B that is an option but not in the majors.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Nov 5, 2008 2:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not completely opposed to the idea...
The average OPS+ at 3B is a tad lower than at 1B, so his bat (as it is projected) would play better there. He was, there is no disputing, a butcher there at AAA, but do bear in mind that his defense at 1B has improved by leaps and bounds since that time.
by CapgrasDelusion on Nov 5, 2008 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If he's mastered 1B and not 3B and the OPS+ is only a tad lower, why move him?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 5, 2008 5:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's more than "a tad lower"
1B is worth about 10 fewer runs than 3B.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 6:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and 1b is a lot easier to find than 3b players...and the whole Chavvy thing...
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 5, 2008 8:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Barton's defense at 1B got significantly better this year - in the majors, no less.
Don’t forget that he started his professional career as a catcher.
There’s some precedence for a catcher converting to third base and being fairly good at it (Brandon Inge comes to mind).
I have a feeling – there’s no real statistical basis for it – that Barton, as he came up through the minors, didn’t really pay much attention to his defense. He was always talked up as this fantastic hitting prospect and he relied on his bat and his OBP to get him by. Once he got to the big leagues, he quickly found out that EVERYBODY is a good hitter, and EVERYBODY is a good pitcher at this level (even Crosby).
I think that he didn’t really listen to any of his coaches about defense in the minors, and had a real wake up call this season: There are very, very few people who can survive in MLB by just being a good hitter. He started listening to coaches (and probably Mike Sweeney) and getting better at defense.
At 23, I really don’t see any reason why he can’t convert to third base. It’s not like he’s been a catcher for 20 years and has bad knees. He’s got a good arm. He’s been above average at picking balls in the dirt at first.
by mikev on Nov 5, 2008 3:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
On that I agree but he would have to do a year in AAA in order to be good enough, if possible, for the majors.
We can’t give him On the Job Training in majors.. especially since he has been struggling this year with the bat.
On the other hand, I do like Swisher @ 1B and would still like to see some good compitition at 3B with Baisley and Gusman.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Nov 5, 2008 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why does struggling with the bat equate to not wanting him to learn 3B in the big leagues?
by mikev on Nov 5, 2008 6:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There is a difference between being at 1B with nice defense and struggling with the bat and
being at 3B and struggling defensively and offfensively. He has a opportunity to learn to play 3B in AAA and also get his swing back, but the pressure and how it will affect the team will be alot different in the majors.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Nov 5, 2008 9:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even Crosby is a good pitcher at this level?
Did you overpay for those eggs? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Nov 5, 2008 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His 3/4 to sidearm delivery is hard to pick up.
by mikev on Nov 5, 2008 6:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Watching Crosby, you'd also think that
a ground ball is hard to pick up.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 5, 2008 6:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, especially for the first baseman.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 6:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
QOTM
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Nov 7, 2008 11:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, he didn't do well there in 18 games. His first 18 games over there.
I think a lot of people here look at his athleticism and improvement and first and think he can handle it. I tend to agree that with some work, he can. I just don’t know if I want to deal with those growing pains at the major league level.
by thejd44 on Nov 5, 2008 11:19 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
davis and sweeney for swisher?
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra
by Cheezombie on Nov 5, 2008 10:34 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think KW liked Sweeney very much
hence his willingness to throw him in after a mediocre season.
I’d try to get him to bite on Buck or Denorfia, maybe Baisley.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not buck
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra
by Cheezombie on Nov 5, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Denorfia or Baisley for Swisher?
Are you a Mets fan?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 5, 2008 5:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was including Davis too...
Yes, from our perspective that’s ridiculously lopsided, but you have to realize this is a GM who wants Willy Taveras to bat leadoff.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 6:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Barton and Rajai for Swisher
Swish at 1B, clusterfuck at 3B.
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Nov 5, 2008 11:25 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Here is a better deal
Taveras to Chisox, street to rockies, and Swisher to oakland.
by Arcman on Nov 5, 2008 11:53 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Could work.
And the best part is the White Sox get hosed!
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Nov 5, 2008 11:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rockies make out like bandits in that trade...
Esp. with Taveras on the way out anyway.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 12:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, why not just top the Taveras with Davis?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 5, 2008 5:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What about trading for Swisher and putting him at 3B?
hhmm, probably not a good idea.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Nov 5, 2008 12:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Mazzaro to Rockies
Swish to OAK, Taveras to ChiSox. If this doesn’t work for ChiSox, Rockies should throw in more.
Obviously, Rocks win this bigtime, but that’s because Kenny is stupid. Mazzaro for Swish is definitely fair value.
This deal makes more sense than Street because Rocks want young pitching.
by ohmangoAs on Nov 5, 2008 12:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Can we get the Rockies to throw in one of their blocked shortstop prospects for, eh, Smith?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably.
Since Mazarro for Taveras is crazily favoring the Rockies.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 5, 2008 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why assume Kenny is stupid? He's been pretty successful.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 5, 2008 5:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He did trade Aaron Cunningham for Danny Richar
He’s actually been tremendously UNsuccessful on the whole, with a handful of deals that have worked out ridiculously well.
by thejd44 on Nov 5, 2008 11:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
B-b-but then he traded Danny Richar for KEN GRIFFEY JR.!!!1!
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 11:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And Billy Beane traded Ted Lilly for Bobby Kielty
Every GM who’s been around for some time has made some dumbass stupid moves.
And “tremendously UNsuccessful”? Is Mark Shapiro also tremendously UNsucessful on the whole?
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 6, 2008 6:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The best thing you can say about most (80% or so) of Williams' moves is that what he gave up didn't amount to much
Which doesn’t mean that it was a good trade or that it helped the White Sox.
Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik/Luis Vizcaino? Sirotka for Wells (Sirotka never pitched again, but Wells was terrible)? Foulke/Koch? He’s also done a terrible job of acquiring talent when he’s giving up major league talent.
In 2002, the White Sox were clearly out of it in July. In the span of one week, he traded Ray Durham, Kenny Lofton, Sandy Alomar, and Bobby Howry for a bunch of pitching prospects. Those prospects: RHP Jon Adkins, RHP Felix Diaz, LHP Ryan Meaux, RHP Enemencio Pacheco, RHP Franklin Francisco, and LHP Byeong An. Adkins’ 80 long-relief innings over 3 seasons with the Sox was the best thing to come of those trades. Oh, sure, Frank Francisco has been an ok reliever at times but Williams flipped him for Carl Everett in 2003. Everett hit well, but he was as bad defensively as Griffey was this year. The trade was a bust.
His best trades are deals like getting Matt Thornton for Joe Borchard (a terrible first-round pick that’s on his head). HIs only real good blockbuster-type deal was when he acquired Freddy Garcia (and Ben Davis) for Miguel Olivo, Jeremy Reed, and Michael Morse.
Williams isn’t the worst GM around, but he’s also not one of the better ones. He IS very, very active though. He’s makes deals like a fantasy GM.
by thejd44 on Nov 6, 2008 10:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I forgot that the Danks/Masset for McCarthy was an unfair abuse of Jon Daniels
Great trade for Williams. I think Danks is going to be very, very good. And, of course, Masset was part of the deal for KEN GRIFFEY JR OMFGZZ!
by thejd44 on Nov 6, 2008 10:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Signing Dye before 2005 was a pretty good move. Also Alexei Ramirez.
I wouldn’t call Orlando Cabrera a bust. He was one of the better defensive SS in the AL this year.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 6, 2008 5:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Dye move was a risk that paid off
Up until that point, Dye was only a really good player in 3 of the 9 seasons in which he had played and he looked like he was done. It was actually a buy-low move that Beane may have made had Dye played with somebody other than Oakland the previous year.
I don’t think Ramirez is that good.
And Cabrera has always been an ok but not great defensive player. He’s one of those guys who has meh range but doesn’t make a lot of errors. Plus, he got a number of errors overturned by official scorers by calling the press boxing and complaining. Cabrera pretty much sucks.
by thejd44 on Nov 6, 2008 8:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ramirez doesn't need to be that good.
He is being paid $4.75M / 4. That’s a contract that the most cheapskate teams can afford, that even the freaking Marlins can afford. That’s a contract that is better than pissing $1.45M down the drain on Emil D Freaking A Brown. At least with Ramirez there’s the possibility that he could be decent / good. With Brown, there’s nothing:you get a 33 year old career corner OF with career OPS+ below 100. Just by being league average, the WS have got themselves a big bargain in Ramirez for the next 3 years. They can then spend the money on other positions.
As for Cabrera being a bust: offensively, Cabrera was about a league average SS this year. From BPro’s EQA stats, 1.3 runs below the MLB average for SS. So, accepting your assumption that he’s an OK defensive player, he was pretty much a league average SS this year. If you want to quibble, about 1 run below average. Meanwhile, Jon Garland produced a 91 ERA+. Below average. More than 1 run below average.
Oh, yeah, Cabrera was paid $9M, Garland $12M. On top of that, the Angels sent $1.5M to the WS. So, in reality, Cabrera was paid $7.5M, Garland $12M. So the WS saved, $4.5M, and got a better player in return. That’s a failure?
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 7, 2008 12:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Incidentally,
the WS saved $4.5M by trading Garland for Cabrera. They signed Alexei Ramirez to a bargain $4.75M contract.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 7, 2008 12:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2005
While I thought the White Sox were very lucky to win it all in 2005, Williams did make a couple of smart “buy low” moves before that season that contributed to their success:
After watching him struggle with injuries for pretty much his entire time here, the A’s declined Jermaine Dye’s option, which I think was for $14 million. The White Sox signed him for $4 million, and he bounced back to have an OPS+ of 118 that year, and 151 the next year.
And the Giants non-tendered A.J. Pierzynski (who would have gotten about $5 million in arbitration) partly because of a disappointing season with the bat but largely because of off-field issues. The White Sox signed him for $2.25 million.
I hate Pierzynski as much as the next guy, but those were both very smart bets, and both paid off.
Thanks for tomorrow 'cause I've had enough
by andeux on Nov 6, 2008 10:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
The Dye move was a risk where he got a little bit lucky. The AJ move was a good job of recognizing that he would fit in well with the Sox. I actually really like AJ and always have.
Again, two decent pickups that were sort of under-the-radar moves.
by thejd44 on Nov 6, 2008 8:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Anything we don't understand is "luck"?
Just because the A’s are utterly hopeless at dealing with injuries and player health, doesn’t mean that other teams, and other GMs, are equally utterly hopeless.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 7, 2008 12:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Carlos Lee was paid much more money than
Podsednik and Vizcaino. Money that could be then spent on elsewhere. Such as when KW then picked up Tadahito Iguchi for a cheap price for a few years as a stopgap 2b.
Yes, he might only a few really good blockbuster deals. So? Decent deals combined have a positive effect. The point isn’t to have great blockbuster deals and to “win” and “beat” the other GM. The point is to build a good team that contends regularly.
If you look at his record, he has some great deals, Danks and Freddy Garcia, both times, first when he got Garcia for Reed, then when he dumped Garcia on the Phillies to get back Gio AND Floyd. He has some decent / good deals, the Buehrle contract, the Iguchi signing, the Alexei Ramirez signing. Some OK deals, the Chris Young for Vazquez trade, the Thome / Rowand trade. Bad deals like the Cunningham for Richar trade. Etc.
He’s been a GM since November of 2000. At this point, IMO, it makes more sense to look at his overall record, than to just point out a few bad deals and poke fun at him. If you want to look at individual deals, you have a lot of work to do, to look at every little individual deal that he has made.
As for him not being one of the better ones, well firstly what kind of grading system are you using? Top 5? Top 10? Top 15? And secondly, whom would you rate above him?
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 6, 2008 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Some faulty assumptions here
Trading Lee was not a salary dump, and it in no way allowed Williams to spend money he otherwise would not have spent. Iguchi made just 2.3 million in 2005. Lee, while terribly overpaid now, is a much better player than Podsednik could ever dream to be and Vizcaino was a fairly insignificant long reliever. That was flat-out a bad deal.
I never said he didn’t make any good moves. In fact, I listed a bunch of them. He’s made far more that were, at best, very questionable. Where would I rank him? Off the top of my head, probably around 15-20. That factors in some truly dumb GMs like Bavasi and some guys who are a bit too new to consider.
He’s not even the best GM in Chicago.
by thejd44 on Nov 6, 2008 8:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There no fucking way anyone knows
whether he planned Lee as a trade to free up money, not unless you’re a member of the WS front office.
The fact is that Lee $8M in 2005. Podsednik was paid $550K in 2005. Vizcaino, $1.3M. That’s a savings of about $6M.
And he didn’t just sign Iguchi. He signed other players too.
15-20? OK, who’s better? Name the 15 GMs who in your opinion are better.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 7, 2008 12:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mazzaro might work well in Colorado with his GB tendencies
Ok, ok, I just wish this deal would happen.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Nov 5, 2008 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
here's the deal..
i do think a trade matches up if they wanted to get something done
white sox looking for pitching and a 2b..A’s have depth in that area…i wouldnt give up anymore than “depth” players and one good prospect
but this would also start a domino effect…what to go with barton, who goes in the OF
it adds more congestion to the OF/1b/DH mix and still no additional SS/3b in sight
by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 5, 2008 2:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ok how bout this?
Colorado:
In: Mazzaro, Duke, Murton
Out: Stewart, Taveras, Christopher Nelson
White Sox:
In: Taveras, Patterson, Smith
Out: Swisher
A’s
In: Nelson, Stewart, Swish
Out: Duke, Mazzaro, Patterson, Murton, Smith
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Nov 5, 2008 3:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be very concerned about trading TWO starters away
I know we think the A’s can generate pitching by parthenogenesis, but that’s pushing it.
I’m also rather underwhelmed by Stewart, who strikes me as basically Josh Fields circa a year ago (a solid-not-great rookie coming off a very lucky first season). I’d rather pick up the original for a lower price…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was looking at losing two pitchers but I figured
getting Swish and Stewart pretty much eliminates the A’s need to sign Giambi (although signing him would still be a faint possibility) or trading for Beltre. That leaves the A’s a little money to spend on a low-tier FA starter (Brad Penny? Pedro?). Beane’s record with FA SP isn’t good though.
And even without Duke and Smith and not counting any additions our rotation is:
Gallagher
Eveland
Gio
Braden
Outman
That’s a not very exciting rotation but it’s better than Texas’. If you want to change the deal, how about the Sox throw in Vasquez and we take out Duke?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Nov 5, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That seems optimistic... to say the least
I’d just pull Duke and Stewart out of the trade and leave it at that.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 4:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd also take out Smith as well
We’re buying Swish back low, they get their CF and a “utility” guy.
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
by DMOAS on Nov 5, 2008 5:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Shrug
If they want Smith or even Eveland, I’m not going to let it stand in the way of making the deal happen. In fact, any of the 4 lefties not named Anderson or Gio would be acceptable.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 7:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thus completing the only the "parthenogenesis" joke I'll hear all year
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 5, 2008 6:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was wondering
who the alleged parthenos is.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 7, 2008 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we know it wasn't Harden
He was a parthenonentity, according to Macha.
Did you overpay for those eggs? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Nov 7, 2008 2:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The White Sox have plans at 2B
They’re not really “looking for” one in the sense that they’ve got nothing on their plate. They have Getz. They just signed Nix and think he can play (I don’t). And I still would bet that Orlando Hudson ends up in Chicago.
And, all else failing, they might decide to give Uribe a one-year deal.
by thejd44 on Nov 5, 2008 11:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We have better players now playing outfield.
I would rather Nick stays in ChiTown.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 5, 2008 4:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hm. I was under the impression Ryan Sweeney had started like 120 games for Oakland this year.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 4:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he was obviously talking about our best outfielder
emil brown
by travdog6 on Nov 5, 2008 5:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No no, she meant Travis Buck
Or, wait, I know, Chris Denorfia.
Matt Murton? Um… hmm…
by thejd44 on Nov 5, 2008 11:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I rather Nick stays put in ChiTown..or goes elsewhere. I don’t see any reason for Oakland to have him back. I think the young guys the A’s have for the OF will do well. I don’t care to see him back. I like what I see from the current guys
by ilovegregsmith on Nov 5, 2008 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I would bet that 9 out of ten
Chicago fans would love to have Sweeney back for Swish. They’d undo that trade in a NY minute if it was possible.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 5, 2008 5:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
KW would also
love to dump Swish’s contract also.
by calas on Nov 5, 2008 5:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Swisher would easily be the A's best OF...or best 1B for that matter.
I’m not counting Cust.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 5, 2008 5:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree with you at all.
He’d be the most entertaining. But Sweeney has a good glove and a better bat when he is healthy. Gonzalez has great potential and Swish really was not much of an asset to the ChiSox last year.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 5, 2008 5:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OK
Swisher had a horrible (and horribly unlucky) year at the plate last year, by far the worst of his career, and his OPS+ was 92.
Sweeney had a probably unsustainably GOOD year at the plate and his OPS+ was 101.
There might be a handful of runs separating them defensively, but the odds are high that Swisher will be the better hitter next season, and probably by a substantial margin.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 7:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We'll see.
I really don’t think that Swish is going to have a breakout season.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 5, 2008 7:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rebound would be a better word than breakout
au contra ire
by JediLeroy on Nov 5, 2008 7:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your premise (Swish > Sweeney)
But I think Sweeney’s hitting style suggests he’ll probably sustain his current production. The problem is his swing might not allow him to improve on it.
Either way, I’d rather have Swisher.
by thejd44 on Nov 5, 2008 11:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Sweeney will be significantly better than some (like PT) do
But this is insane. Swisher is a far better player. End of story.
by thejd44 on Nov 5, 2008 11:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Swish in LF, CarGon (eventually) in CF, Sweeney in RF
I like it. Cunningham needs more seasoning. And to hell with Buck. Bring back, Swish.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 5, 2008 6:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
That's right, the last part was a command
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 5, 2008 6:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but what is he supposed to bring back?
by whiteshoes40 on Nov 5, 2008 6:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My pants?
That would actually be helpful.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 5, 2008 7:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, gramps, but no one, not even Swish, is bringing back bell-bottoms
Did you overpay for those eggs? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Nov 5, 2008 11:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously:
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 5, 2008 7:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes Please!
Why is everyone so quick to write off Swisher after one bad, almost certainly luck-related season? This time last year, he was seen as a consistent 25-30 HR guy with good defense and a high OBP. He’s going to be 28 next year—he didn’t suddenly forget how to play baseball. He’s clearly an upgrade over all of our current OFs. That includes Cust if one takes defense into account (which one certainly should).
by harenshair on Nov 5, 2008 7:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Seriously. Get it done, Billy.
Swisher for DJ, straight up.
au contra ire
by JediLeroy on Nov 5, 2008 8:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dan Johnson?
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 5, 2008 8:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dossman Jr.?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 5, 2008 8:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dale Jarrett?
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 5, 2008 8:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don Jr.
His mom might actually go for that.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Nov 5, 2008 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don Juan's son
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 6, 2008 12:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dick Jauron
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 7, 2008 8:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dan Jansen?
"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL
by oblique on Nov 7, 2008 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do we have to throw in the Volvo too?
"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty
by 5Aces on Nov 7, 2008 9:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
People dont want Swish back? Is this a joke?
The White Sox did not know how to handle him. Take Swish out of CF and put him back in Oakland and I think it extremely likely he would be our most productive outfielder next year. Swish hits for POWER. If we can get him cheap it is a no-brainer. If he doesn’t come back to Oakland then the Rays better trade for him. I will be pissed to him waste away on the bench.
www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.
by ChadGod on Nov 5, 2008 7:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Swisher is overrated, IMHO...
…especially by many A’s fans who I think are blinded by his personality.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Nov 5, 2008 8:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I always thought Swish was a bit overrated
That doesn’t mean he isn’t good, but to me he’s a B+ player and the fact that he’s not at one of the A’s positions of biggest need (SS, 3B) makes me less excited about reacquiring him with the trade chips the A’s have available.
And no, I don’t think Barton can play 3B. Failing there in the minors and then improving at an easier position doesn’t constitute enough evidence for me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 5, 2008 8:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A "B+" player is worth at least an A- prospect...
If the A’s can score him for a B- prospect instead, they’d be fools not to. It’s all a question of how much the White Sox are really asking for.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 9:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I completely agree
And we know that when KW has a gut feeling he sticks to his rootin tootin guns dag nabbit! Im thinking Swish and Vazquez for Taveras and the salary dump. Would Vazquez not be extremely useful for the A’s for a couple of seasons? It is not like we can’t afford the guy.
www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.
by ChadGod on Nov 5, 2008 10:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hell, I'd take Vasquez, but I don't think KW is gonna give up that much talen just for a talent dump and Taveras
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 5, 2008 10:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a Vazquez fan
He’s quite possibly the most frustrating pitcher I’ve ever watched, and I’ve never even rooted for him. I don’t know that I’ve seen a more talented pitcher (who can stay healthy) routinely pitch like a moron the way he does. There’s really just no good reason why he’s such a mediocre pitcher. White Sox fans will attest to the fact that his “5 solid innings, then explosion” tendencies are not a lot of fun.
Vazquez is the type of guy you want when you need one more starter who won’t kill you so you can make the playoffs. He’s not a guy a rebuilding team with a ton of promising pitchers really needs.
by thejd44 on Nov 5, 2008 11:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
eh, i'd have a hard time arguing he is going to be any worse
than our fifth start this year. The thing is, he isn’t so cost controlled like our fifth starter is likely to be. However, if you wanted to contend, it’s not so bad to follow the Cardinals model of building your rotation from the back-end. Improving your 5th starter’s production to a middle of the rotation kinda guy should can have the same run saving effect as improving your #2 starter-in-the-first-slot into an ace, and its usually cheaper. That said, I really don’t want vasquez unless we’re getting the upperhand on the deal, and it makes us look silly if we don’t do the deal, otherwise give it to the kids.
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 6, 2008 8:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lol, no
Williams may be a wild card, but he wasn’t born yesterday. And I doubt the White Sox are looking to dump salary as such.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 11:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is KW we're talking about.
Not Jon Daniels.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 6, 2008 6:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right, Swisher doesn't fill a "need"
But if you really improve at a position that’s ok, you’re still making the team better. And, ideally, the A’s would give up one of their OFs in the trade so it wouldn’t add to a logjam.
by thejd44 on Nov 5, 2008 11:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i prefer the term
clusterf#%$
Save Rajai Davis
by oakinboston on Nov 6, 2008 6:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I agree Swish is good...
…I just don’t think he’s as good or as valuable as many fans feel he is.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Nov 7, 2008 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Swisher addresses a few needs...
Right now, if the A’s want to be any good in ‘09 they are counting on CarGon, Sweeney, Buck, and Barton all succeeding, or one of their lessors. Now, if we sign Giambi — great idea — then we don’t need to count on ’07 Barton reappearing, we instantly improve our offense, and we restore some character to the ever-fleeting Oakland roster.
Likewise, Swish has the same effect; we don’t have to count on all of our young talent to come to fruition in ’09 in order to compete, we bring back some more hometown favorite action, AND we can stop the Major League clock on whomever is not ready. Buck or Cargon IMO, not that I would look forward to Sweeney in CF.
Now, if we can just trade BoCro for Miguel Tejada and some bionic legs, we are in business!
Someone call Eckersley!
www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.
by ChadGod on Nov 6, 2008 7:20 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
pssst, this isn't the steroids era anymore, apparently someome is trying to cleanup the game.
Tejada is going to age about as well as a cheap bottle of wine.
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 6, 2008 9:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm convinced that pretty much as many players are taking steroids now as ever were
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 6, 2008 9:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But so many players are visibly smaller
I think it’s going to take a year or two for them to find their way to HGH. That’s why I laugh when people give Giambi “credit” for coming clean. What on earth would make him stop taking HGH when they don’t test for it?
by thejd44 on Nov 6, 2008 10:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How do you think he has rebounded so nicely?
I don’t care. I don’t blame the players, I blame the game.
www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.
by ChadGod on Nov 6, 2008 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How do want the game to change its behavior?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 6, 2008 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't your kid's fault he got a DUI...
…it was Coors’ fault.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Nov 7, 2008 12:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
HGH? HGH doesn't actually enhance performance as far as anyone can tell
As for the “visibly smaller” thing, I just don’t see it.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 6, 2008 10:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
HGH stimulates the synthesis of collagen
Which helps in the injury recovery process, which can lead to enhanced performance insomuch as we would have had a helluva lot more 33-years-old-+ players experiencing Griffey-like breakdowns mid-season rather than playing 160 games and belting 57 homeruns. Some users report better eyesight, too, but that’s obviously subjective.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 6, 2008 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pudge Rodriguez would beg to differ.
So would Kerry Wood.
I think I could make a list of about 50 players who are noticeably smaller from, say, 2004 to now if I took the time to think on it.
by thejd44 on Nov 6, 2008 8:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Then how do you account for the fact that homeruns are way down?
That stat alone should tell you that the use of PEDS is down. Add in that some of the players have been turned into MLB poison pariahs and using is now a pretty risky proposition.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 8, 2008 8:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the outfield fences are also on steroids.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 8, 2008 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
is it a bottle of Chianti?
Save Rajai Davis
by oakinboston on Nov 7, 2008 11:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the other need swish addresses
is getting people to turn up to see a losing team?
not to be sniffed at, perhaps
BB should send scouts to watch cricket players.
by alea iacta est on Nov 7, 2008 2:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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