Because Your Mind Is Really On Baseball Today...
by Nico on Nov 4, 2008 6:00 AM PST
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PrintWhether you support the candidate who promises to bring more offense to the middle infield, or the one who promises to bring Bobby Crosby; whether you voted today for Ozuna or McCann; whether you believe that revenue sharing is "socialism" or that Jamie Moyer would be a terrific candidate for president in about 17 years; no matter what your leanings, chances are that baseball and the A's feel strangely insignificant today and I think it would be like ignoring the "Elephant in the room" - hi Stomper!!! - not to acknowledge this.
To put it into baseball terms, today will be a day of either Jackie Robinson or Pam Postema historic significance and that's not even why you care. You care because there are more important things in the world than baseball. And you're here because you need a distraction and you seek out a community of people who are equally in need of a distraction, are equally insane in their passion for baseball and the A's, and are so mentally and verbally unstable so as to be entertaining. We can help.
If the A's pursue a free agent to upgrade the offense, their choices all come with significant downsides for which they must overpay anyway. I kind of sort them (in alphabetical order) as follows:
Casey Blake
Skills (Blake is a good hitter and fielder, not a great one, and is not truly an "impact player")
Pat Burrell
Age (must pay for some decline years)
Defense (must add a poor OFer at a position where there are many good defensive OFers, and potentially good hitting OFers, who would be blocked.
Adam Dunn
Defense (must add a poor 1B/OFer at a position where there are many good defensive 1B/OFers, and potentially good hitting 1B/OFers, who would be blocked.
Left-handed (if you care)
Strickouts!!!!111 (sorry, I had to)
Rafael Furcal
Health (the A's, of all teams, should be wary of health questions)
Slugging (Furcal is the only player on this list who is not a real HR threat)
Jason Giambi
Age (even if he helps the A's get a bit better now, at 38 he will be gone by the time the A's expect to be special)
Defense (at 1B he makes your infield defense worse and at DH he forces you to play Cust in the OF)
Left-handed (if you care)
Manny Ramirez
Age (even if he helps the A's get a bit better now, at 38 he will be gone by the time the A's expect to be special)
Cost (Ramirez will be paid annually like Teixeira, but will have Manny's attitude and defense)
Mark Teixeira
Cost (the combination of Teixeira's ability and Scott Boras suggest that Teixeira will seek upwards of a 10 year and/or $200million commitment, creating a high level of risk and payroll allocation for even big market teams)
Interestingly the A's, whose already small (3rd lowest in MLB) payroll has recently shrunk even more with the departures of Harden and now Embree, could afford to put a whole lotta eggs in one basket and bid for Teixeira, who has the fewest negatives surrounding the combination of age, health, defense, and ability to balance an A's lineup. At 27 now, Teixeira will probably still be a good player in 10 years, when his annual salary will also seem more reasonable in comparison to how it will look on the day he signs his next contract.
It's an intriguing thought that the A's could make one huge splash, rather than several Blake/Giambi/Furcal type ripples, and could do precisely what they generally try to avoid doing: commit a high percentage of payroll to one player who might become the Jermaine Dye of five years ago or the Eric Chavez of today.
It's even exciting to think that by making one huge commitment one time, the A's could consider Daric Barton as expendable as Huston Street and the young lefty starter of your choice, and could dangle an awful lot of talent in order to solve deficiencies in areas such as SS.
And spending that kind of money on a single player, no matter what position they play or how the rest of your payroll looks at the moment, is almost always a mistake and is the kind of mistake that can haunt and cripple a team for years. Would it be this time, with this team?
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If the A's expect to be special in 2010
(going by your math, Nico, although Giambi actually turns 38 in two months, unless my math is wrong)…but anyway, if that is the case, then even the one guy I would consider (Giambi) is merely a band-aid. Maybe he helps the team now, during that one last non-special season, and then he turns 39, so yeah. Or…he provides that veteran-ness during those special years.
Putting all their eggs in the Tex basket, while surely an enticing thought, is too risky, and probably is a pipedream anyway.
Oh, and enough with the mentally and verbally unstable bashing, huh? I’m NOT fucking unstable!!! I swear I just want to slap a goat every time I hear that. Thanks, I just needed to get that off my chest. Let’s go have breakfast, ’k pal?
I'm here to talk about the past.
Dunn or Furcal
1. Furcal if he comes on no more than a two year deal. I don’t like contracts to injury prone players, although Furcal is a really special player.
2. Dunn. Yeah, a few people on the other post and a little digging up of my own helped me realize that Dunn might be a good idea on the team (Ideas are made to be shared though). I don’t go above 4/60 though. I prefer Dunn over Furcal though.
The Dirty Canuck of the now.
"Special player"
Really? I’d say he’s usually above average, but not much more than that.
by thejd44 on Nov 4, 2008 8:58 AM PST up reply actions
A +20-25 run player like Furcal is normally an All-Star in an average market
Is that “special”?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
The A's need a SS / 3B, not an OF / 1B
They have plenty of outfield potential. Suzuki and Ellis are actually good. Between Barton and Chavez, 1B is (cross your fingers) covered. Ideally, they would go get a studly SS/3B FA. Trouble is, Blake, and Cabrera don’t qualify. So it’s Furcal if we can afford him. And he doesn’t light my fire either.
Teixera is great. I’m uneasy giving up on Barton so soon, and paying that much for 1B. For that much money, the As should have gotten A-Rod last year, a better player at a desperately needed position. (and I said so last year).
However, it’s this year. Obtaining a still young Teixera and then packaging a trade for SS/3B (or praying yet again for Chavvy and Crosby to play well) may be our best move.
Of all
the free agents, this offseason or next, Teixeira would be the best investment IMO. Yes, he will likely command a deal of around $20mil a season, but he’s one of the few guys that are probably actually worth it. .290/.378/.541 career line with GG defense at only 27 years old. You don’t see that very often, and his combination of dangerous offensive potential and excellent defense make him a unique player by today’s standards. My only problem is i’m not sure i’d be comfortable giving him 10/200, but maybe something more in the 6-8 year range. The chances of the A’s even kicking the tires on Teixeira are slim to none, but I personally don’t think its a bad idea. Payroll would still only be in the uppers 50’s, and you could package Street/Barton and/or a couple prospects to get a legit SS and 3B option.
agree on Teixera, although I would be shocked if the A's inquired and he even listened
Burrell isn’t actually all that old (especially compared with the A’s recent aging slugger acquisitions). But he is likely to be expensive considering his streakiness.
I think perhaps the A’s may pursue a trade of prospects for a good young bat (so don’t get too attached to all the prospects or rookies). The FA signings may end up being to plug up holes created by the big prospect and young A’s pitcher trades.
I just want to
add that if you take a look at the contracts guys are getting/demanding, and how every year it seems as though more and more money is being given it might not be a bad time to spend a big chunk on a guy like Tex. In 5 years a player of his caliber at $20mil a year will probably be considered a bargain, and at that point I don’t think you’ll see the A’s in on any of the bigger name FA’s because guys will be seeking 25-30mil a season instead of 15-20mil. I just think that with the current A’s financial situation, signing a big time player who is about as much of a “cant miss” as you get talent and health-wise, wouldn’t be a bad investment of handcuff the team financially.
What are you gonna do with Barton and Chavez then?
Trade Barton when his values is an at all time low?, Chavez is probably a first baseman now.
Barton
could be moved to 3B (as stated below), or even more likely dealt in a package for another bat at 3B/SS. I don’t think Barton’s value is all that low. His minor track record suggests he was simply a 22 year old rookie trying to find his way in the big leagues. He showed flashes of the hitter he has the potential to become, and GM’s will take everything into consideration when looking at his down rookie year. He was very young to play a full season in the bigs, but the talent is there no doubt. Chavez is a non factor until he comes back near 100% and there is absolutely no guaruntee that happens. The A’s can’t keep penciling him in at a starting position, then running a joke out to cover him when he goes down. If he comes back healthy he can rotate between 3B/1B/DH to get his AB’s.
by JPShark on Nov 4, 2008 8:31 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Barton could be starting the season in AAA regardless
"This is Rickey, calling on behalf of Rickey."
by scatterbrian on Nov 4, 2008 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
Normally I'd agree
But I don’t think anybody knows how the current economic situation is going to impact player salaries. It might not, but there’s a possibility. While there is usually a pretty steady level of inflation of baseball contracts, I could see that leveling off in the next couple of years.
I’m not knowledgable enough to know the answer to this, but I’m quite sure that Billy Beane is (and, at the very least, it’s something he’s looking at).
by thejd44 on Nov 4, 2008 8:57 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Trade for Billy Butler at 1B
Put Barton at 3B. He has the athleticism and arm to play it. And now hopefully the humility to accept the coaching.
They're called RUNS for a reason.
Billy Butler is not an upgrade at 1B to Barton.
Why don’t people remember that Barton was one of the best prospects in the game, this was his rookie year, and he still just turned 23 a couple of months ago?
To be fair
Butler is younger, was a better prospect, and has better minor league stats. Although I like Butler’s bat, there’s no question Barton’s D is way better.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
I don't know that Butler was a better prospect
Unless you strictly look at power.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Strictly look at power?
Butler, throughout his minor league career has done everything offensively better than Barton. He’s hit for a higher average, ever so slightly advantage in on base percentage is and he hits for more power. I don’t think there is even a question that Butler is the better offensive prospect.
Tools Whore
Sign Bonds!
Juan Rivera in the OF
Great Value, young enough.
They're called RUNS for a reason.
Juan Rivera
Makes Emil Brown look like a gold glover in the outfield, stay as far away from Rivera as possible hes garbage.
I'm doctorK, and I approve of this message
Didn’t we have enough of this during 2008?
"However, at Elias, I think they keep track of the amount of sunflower seeds spit in a dugout each night." - Brad Ziegler, 8/7/08
My opinion
Dunn = overpriced Jack Cust
Burrell = another over priced DH
Furcal = a possibility only if he can be had cheap and around 3 years which is unlikely
Manny and tex = not even in the ballpark for the A’s. 2 players over 15 million a year.
Blake = same as Furcal but doubt he will make it considering 3b are overpayed
Giambi = 1 year contract to prove he is back. My best bet to angels, bj, or o’s as dh.
Juan riveria = another crowded outfielder
Please no Atkins he is over rated trade bait
give him a 40 man spot?
or let him reach minor league free agency?
i’d dump hannahan and hope this guy ould do well in AAA
Jesus Guzman – OAK
Jesus Guzman went 5-for-5 on Sunday to raise his VWL average to .438.
He’s 28-for-64 with three homers and a 9/10 K/BB ratio while splitting time between second and third. He’s probably not a realistic option at second base in the majors, but he’s making a case to be Oakland’s fallback at the hot corner if Eric Chavez can’t play the position.
I would also like to see Guzman get a chance at 3B. Although we have to sign him first as he is actually a free agent now.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Nov 4, 2008 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Any warm body should get a chance at 3B
The Dirty Canuck of the now.
by Blicks on Nov 4, 2008 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
hatteberg....he could learn, and hes young (38) compared to moyer
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 4, 2008 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
Good analysis
But I have a problem with ever expecting anybody to be playing in the majors, much less playing well at age 37. And, as far as I know, age 26 performance doesn’t in any way predict if a player will still be around a decade later.
by thejd44 on Nov 4, 2008 8:55 AM PST reply actions
with all due respect
and I’m not sure if you are making it, the “what will he project to in ten years” argument, doesn’t seem to apply with the A’s, because we never keep players for ten years.
They're called RUNS for a reason.
Nico sez,
“At 27 now, Teixeira will probably still be a good player in 10 years, when his annual salary will also seem more reasonable in comparison to how it will look on the day he signs his next contract.”
I was responding to NIco’s comment in the original post. It probably doesn’t apply to the A’s, but it does in this context because NIco is at least suggesting that the A’s make a play for Tex.
by thejd44 on Nov 4, 2008 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
Or at least raising the question
I don’t think anyone is a slam dunk to be good at 37, but as players go Tex is a pretty solid gamble.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Sign Bonds!!!!!
and Milton Bradley…
Someone should look at the lineup with them in there along with Cust and its seems a major upgrade if you can deal with all the baggage that they bring!!!
"What do we do with Crosby? Well, in my neighborhood, trash goes out on Mondays." ~ Nico
"Baggage"
Understatement of the year… but you are on to something. Somehow I think there’s a better chance of Barry joining the A’s, then Milton. And that’s saying a lot.
Before anybody mentions Steroids; it's still apart of the game...
Also, Oakland has had their share of “accused users”
McGwire, Canseco, Giambi, Tejada, Cust…
so what’s another one in Bonds…
"What do we do with Crosby? Well, in my neighborhood, trash goes out on Mondays." ~ Nico
Exactly why we should avoid him
It’s precisely because our history of “accused users” that we should take extra care to avoid signing anyone who would perpetuate that reputation.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
Then I guess we should DFA our 2008 offensive leader Cust???
"What do we do with Crosby? Well, in my neighborhood, trash goes out on Mondays." ~ Nico
I'd like to see any kind of evidence that Bonds can still play
by thejd44 on Nov 4, 2008 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
as of 2007 he could still hit, but not play in the field
since he didn’t play in 2008, who knows anymore about the hitting?
A's and street
Looks like the brewers, rockies, and indians are the front runners in rumors of street. the mets from what I read are more after putz since they don’t have what the A’s want for street. I can hear Beane right now talking a package for Fielder.
Sorry guys
I’m voting for Alan Embree.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 4, 2008 9:53 AM PST reply actions
Jose Canseco
hey, he needs the work!
Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay...in his prime...like 3 years ago.
Any knowledgeable people
think they could do a post about “under the radar” guys that Beane could possibly target?
guys that make you say things like, “who the hell is Erubiel Durazo?”
looking at the list in this post and reading about how aggressive the big-market teams are going to be this year makes me think that the chances are mediumish to smallish the A’s will end up any of them.
Save Rajai Davis
Define "under the radar" guys
Like, guys who are in the minors, 3B prospects who could be MLB ready in 1-2 years, etc??
The Dirty Canuck of the now.
i was thinking along the lines of
in the majors, not a sexy name, but would be a worthwhile positional upgrade. (for instance, i was intrigued by the Ryan Zimmerman discussions a while back, and i would be happy to read about a name less sexy than that)
i mean, take it wherever you want if you have the curiosity. im just a bit jaded already by this free agent list.
Save Rajai Davis
I've been somewhat jaded by the list as well--too many zero defense types, and I'm starting the search
Whether it will actually get done is one thing, but I’d like to look into that stuff as well.
Particularly 3B/SS guys.
I like digging up stats and stuff, and this could be interesting.
The Dirty Canuck of the now.
I'd say Blake and Lowe are closest to "under the radar"
within the high profile group. Among true under the radar options, maybe Russell Branyan?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
yeah that name gets kicked around occasionally
any more like him? not necessarily a free agent? thats what im interested in / dont have time to dig for myself.
Save Rajai Davis
Eric Hinske and Russell Branyan are further under a smaller table than Blake
and are probably just as good as a 4 corner utility type.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 4, 2008 5:22 PM PST up reply actions
Oops I meant radar not table and Nico already mentioned Branyan
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 4, 2008 5:22 PM PST up reply actions
Best I can do for "under the radar" shortstops is Brent Lillibridge
He had a horrible season this year, but he’s probably not that bad and he would be likely to come cheap.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
In that vein I'd pick Hu, since he's got the better defensive rep
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 4, 2008 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
Even Lillibridge wasn't THAT bad this year
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
trade for blanton?
he can come and play 1st/ DH….
BB should send scouts to watch cricket players.
by alea iacta est on Nov 4, 2008 11:27 AM PST reply actions
sign McGwire for 3B
Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay...in his prime...like 3 years ago.
The Gambling Man's Offseason: Sign Giambi, trade for Ordonez.
Giambi – Sure he’s old, isn’t much of a 1st baseman and won’t be a part of any “special” A’s teams. Besides those points, he’s the ideal guy to help “take the pressure off” the young pitchers for a year or two, which are the qualities Beane has himself stated he’s seeking on the free agent market. He’s still got 30-homer pop and will likely come on a 1-year, 1+1 option or at most 2-year deal for reasonable money. He can still get on-base and hit for power (the two biggest areas of concern for this team last season) and isn’t an embarrassment against left-handed pitching (.843 OPS). With Ellis and his good range at 2nd, Giambi can play the field most of the time, keeping the DH spot open for Cust and Giambi would be a very good clubhouse presence according to Eric Chavez and Mark Ellis, who i respect and trust a lot more on these issues than any of us bloggers.
Ordonez – It seems to me like the Tigers and A’s match up well on a trade. The Tigers are desperately looking for short-term players for both the closer’s role and the shortstop position. They are also looking to shed some salary in order to address other needs (starting pitching). I have floated this idea before: the A’s trade Street and Crosby to Detroit for Ordonez. The deal addresses the Tigers’ immediate bullpen and infield needs and saves them about $8 million dollars next season and more than $40 million over the next three seasons.
As for the A’s, Ordonez brings a very well-balanced right-handed stick to the lineup that hits for power, average and an effective approach with runners-in-scoring position. He can still play the field most of the time in either outfield corner and will likely be around for the next three seasons, allowing the A’s to develop their young outfielders slowly and surely. As a respected veteran player and Venezuelan native, he could be a great influence on fellow countryman Carlos Gonzalez.
Sure, the A’s probably don’t NEED another outfielder at this point, but Ordonez is likely going to be available for exactly what the A’s have to offer and he’s a better overall hitter than any of the free agents listed above; while his contract is expensive, it will only run through 2011 (and only then if he reaches certain plate-appearance milestones that will automatically trigger the options and/or if the A’s voluntarily exercise the options in 2010 and 2011 themselves). With all the young players currently on the roster earning in the league minimum and no core players slated to reach arbitration until after 2010, the A’s can certainly afford Ordonez’s contract.
The Ordonez move is definitely a risk, but assuming the A’s can snag him for only Crosby and Street (or even one of Eveland/Smith/Braden) the team is not giving up all that much to get an elite hitter that could be still around when the team is actually expected to contend. With a solid rotation and bullpen, a deep farm system and a solid core of young players and vets (including Eric Chavez at 3rd) the A’s can compete in 2009 with this lineup:
(against righties)
RF – Sweeney
C – Suzuki (much better against right-handed pitching, breaks up the lefties)
1B – Giambi
LF – Ordonez
DH – Cust
3B – Chavez
2B – Ellis
CF – Cargon
SS – Pennington (I believe he can provide decent defense, a .350 OBP and 20 steals over a full season)
(against lefties)
2B – Mark Ellis (.350+ career OBP against lefties)
CF – Chris Denorfia
1B – Jason Giambi (still gets on base against lefties)
RF – Ordonez
3B – Eric Chavez
DH – Cust
C – Suzuki
LF – Buck (also not bad against lefties)
SS – Pennington
This would be a stunner of an off-season if it were to happen and banking on Chavez more or less full-time at 3rd and Pennington at short are pretty big gambles, but this team is in good enough financial and depth state to go for it. With a solid, young rotation, solid bullpen and solid defense, these moves could vault the A’s into immediate contention in 2009….
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Nov 4, 2008 12:05 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I like the deal for Ordonez!!!
RH power bat and still has put up good numbers.
I’m still haunted by that homerun he hit off Street to knock Oakland out of the 2006 ALCS…
"What do we do with Crosby? Well, in my neighborhood, trash goes out on Mondays." ~ Nico
Rather ironic trade, isn't it
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
indeed Sir!
"What do we do with Crosby? Well, in my neighborhood, trash goes out on Mondays." ~ Nico
move Barton to third, and you've got the monkeyball/mikev plan
Oh, if people only knew how frugal we are. @('.')@
Presumably...
Barton would spend most of next season back in Triple-A refining his 3rd base defense. I agree with you guys that I think he’s a legitimate long-term option there. But I’m still not entirely ready to totally write-off Chavez at the hot corner.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
agreed (mostly) on all points
There’s no reason to drag Chavez to the curb … yet. Absolutely, see what he can do — but the roster has to be built this offseason as if he can’t do anything.
Personally, I think Chavez is done.
Oh, if people only knew how frugal we are. @('.')@
I'm not happy about it
But I’d be happier about holding that thought and then being proved wrong or right than continuing Beane’s bizarre pollyanna attitude toward Chavez’ health.
Did you overpay for those eggs? @('.')@
$18 million plus two $15 million vesting options
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
How bad is Detroit's SS situation
that they would want Crosby?
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
They have nobody - Renteria is now gone,
Guillen can’t play SS (never could very well anyway) and no one is beating down the door from AAA. So they definitely need somebody.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Hmm. Sounds like they're looking for a starting catcher, too.
Per this story.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
The A's just rehired Giambi's old strength coach
who followed him to New York, after Oakland, until MLB changed the rules about the amount of personal trainers that could be in the clubhouse. Does this signify something?
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 4, 2008 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
damnit...beaten to the punch...
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 4, 2008 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
Yoo hoo Giambi! (Jason, not Jeremy)
Alejo is back. What year is this? I’m all for nostalgia.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/indexn?blogid=21
Nature's first green is gold...
Yippee!
With Gallego and Alejo back in town, the A’s should be the favorites if there’s a Manservants Olympics in 2009.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
What, no poll?
Really, of all days, there should be a poll on the front page. One we can cheat at without getting in trouble with The Man.
The Smart Bet is that the A's will make a run at Giambi
The truth is that we’d have to overpay to convince FA to come to Oakland right now. If you’re Burrell, Tex, or Dunn, what makes OAK an optimal destination besides $?
Giambi, on the other hand, has depressed value due to being overlooked in NY and bc of Steroids. He likely would actually enjoy being back in the BA, and we’ve got his trainer (and presumably, friend) back with the team.
Sign Giambi for 1b and Bonds for DH;
and put Cust in the outfield!!!!
"What do we do with Crosby? Well, in my neighborhood, trash goes out on Mondays." ~ Nico
Lets go for the all LH Lineup!
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
Under the Radar Players...
How about Alex Gordon?
The Royals seem to be giving up on him, as they said they are moving former A’s farm hand Mike Teahen back to third, and they just traded for Mike Jacobs to play first. Also, Billy Butler is a DH/1b type just like Jacobs, so there isn’t really a spot left Gordon. I don’t know how good his defense is, but he was the top prospect in the majors a couple years back and the change of scenery might do him some good. It would also let Chavez play first, where he could rest his shoulder but still play an important role on defense. How good was J.T. Snow defensively for the Giants?
Also, I like Jesus Guzman a lot, but not for this year, let him prove he can play in AAA.
And I love the Magglio trade idea, although I wouldn’t have Denorfia playing center against lefties. Sweeney and Buck are both major league ready, but CarGon and Cunningham both could use this year in AAA. We could also pair one of the young outfielders with a pitcher for a legit shortstop, J.J. Hardy?
How about this line-up next season:
C – Suzuki
1B – Chavez (let Barton regroup in AAA to start the year)
2B – Ellis
SS – Hardy
3B – Gordon
OF – Mags
OF – Buck
OF – Sweeney
DH – Cust
That looks pretty solid to me.
Who did we trade to get Hardy in your scenario? Or Gordon?
At the very least expect Sweeney or Buck to be gone from your starting lineup if that’s what you’re doing (and I think one of them would probably have to be in the Mags deal Taj proposed).
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Asking nicely is an underrated strategy
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The Royals aren't as stupid as they used to be
and they would have to be pretty stupid to get rid of a guy who just posted a 110 OPS+ in his age 24 season with only 2 years of service time.
The Mike Jacobs trade (and a few other, similar moves like signing Guillen)
suggests that they are, at the very least, still pretty stupid (although it’s hard to be stupider than they used to be).
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Edit
instead of trading for hardy, I’d rather sign Furcal and then deal a outfielder/pitcher combo to KC for Gordon. Thoughts?
“we” traded street and crosby and maybe a kilby type or landon powell/recker (they really need a catcher) for mags and then we traded cunningham and simmons/mazzaro for gordon and signed furcal as a FA
Since I think Cunningham will be a better player than Gordon by himself, I am not a fan of this plan
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Really?
At age 22 in AA, Gordon’s line: 325/.427/.588/1.015.
At age 22 in AA Cunningham’s line: .317/.386/.507/.893.
They both payed in the hitting-friendly Texas league. Gordon was a #2 pick overall while Cunningham was a 6th rounder. Obviously the tools are in Gordon’s favor. Unless you think that the 87 PA’s Cunningham got at AAA were his true skill level, or that the .780 OPS Gordon put up this year for KC is his peak (while Cunningham will replicate his minor league stats), then I don’t understand how you can believe Gordon won’t be better. I guess you must be saying that you view Gordon as a bad fielding 1b and Cunningham as a plus CF.
And I would trade Simmons/Mazzaro and Cunningham for Gordon, although I’d rather part with Sweeney than Cunningham.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
I think I'm just really bearish on Gordon
I hate guys with bad defense. And he just hasn’t impressed me at all as a player.
I can see the argument for trading Cunningham for him, and certainly I don’t think there’s a crazy difference in value between them, but I would vehemently object to throwing a good pitching prospect in to boot.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
And I know from the past, really bullish on Cunningham
Not that there’s anything wrong with that. I agree with you on the Sweeney-Cunningham debate also from the past.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
GIVE ME SOME
of what you ‘re smoking .
ain’t no ballplayer out there today … no mags , no tex , no dunn , no giambi , no nothing … gonna help this team to win ballgames in the near future . even ted williams in his prime couldn’t make this team a play-off contender .
the LAST chance we had of seeing a winner was 2008 when they threw out haren and harden with the bath water and refused bonds (who WOULD have put fans in the seats , and added to the revenue base) as DH .
now , what we’re stuck with (committed to) is the oakland AAA’s .
the die is cast .
notwithstanding the jettisoning of chavez and his contract , improvement will ONLY come from within .
but even when (and if) they DO ditch chavez , they’re not going to pump the dollars back into putting a contender on the field or fans back in the seats .
hell , they couldn’t even afford haren @ 6.5 mil .
albeit that (the bonds option) was only a one-year plan , but it would have been nice to see a winner before this re-vamping plan went into effect .
alas , by the time they gracefully bow out of the bay area (2011) and (probably) the state (2012 ) , these kids will have earned their stripes …and the A ‘s a new stadium ==>thank you bud selig and the other mlb owners …(NO collusion here) and then they’ll be traded away .
and if you are a true A ‘s fan , you will stick with this team and follow them no matter where they end up .
green and gold forever !
in the meantime , and especially during the off-season , it’s nice to bullshit about “what ifs” and this player or that player i suppose .
just don’t bogart that joint , my friend .
Cunningham might be better
but we don’t need OFers while 3B is a pressing need. Plus, it doesnt have to be Cunningham. I’d be fine with sweeney as well.
Last 3 years Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
2007 KC 151 543 60 134 36 4 15 60 41 137 14 4 .247 .314 .411 .725
2008 KC 134 493 72 128 35 1 16 59 66 120 9 2 .260 .351 .432 .783
Gordon could be a very solid third baseman for the next 5 years if not more if we get him. Hitting in an attrocious KC line-up he put up a pretty good .783 OPS in just his second year. His K:BB rate improved, as he walked 25 more times in 17 less games and he even has pretty decent speed. I could see Eric Chavez in his prime-like type numbers of about .270-30-100.
I say we slice and dice our Major League Roster
And do whatever possible we can with the Brewers to get Gamel and Escobar. They need bullpen help, give them Street and anybody but Ziegler and Devine. Maybe a minor leaguer. Carignan is tearing it up right now, if I’m not mistaken.
They need some pitching… Greg Smith is a good hitter, might do well in the NL. How about Duke (sorry)?
What about Patterson? He’s versatile, fast… perfect for the NL. Whatever else they demand, why not?
If we added Gamel and Escobar, we’d have legit prospects at literally every position. It’d be a beautiful thing.
We'd probably have better defense if Gamel played 1b and Barton 3b
Plus Escobar doesn’t really impress me. I’d rather go hard after Hardy, and maybe Taylor Green (although why the Indians chose Brantley over him is cause to worry). Then we could go for a 3b like Murphy if we want a good rookie, Craig/Hughes/Green if we want an OK option, or Gordon/Zimmerman if we want a guy with a little experience, or even Beltre/Lowell if we want a vet.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
I think you're vastly overestimating Barton's ability to play 3B.
3B’s can generally play first, but not vice versa. Barton’s poor showing at 3B down on the farm is proof enough to me that he probably can’t handle it in the Majors
Or I'm really bearish on Gamel's D
Barton looks like he improved at 1b incredibly. He looks like he could handle a position change to 3b. Gamel is not a 3b.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Speaking of bearish, I think Gamel is a total fluke
He’s going to be a slightly above league average hitter with bad defense. Not what I’m looking for.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I see we hired Bob Alejo back
ESPN Front page speculation on Giambi
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3682950
Sorry if this is posted elsewhere
I said it before: Sign Giambi and Furcal
and the A’s can compete in 2009 (partly because that scenario still leaves Street and others as possible trade chips for further improvement). Signing those two would not break the bank, either. Bend it a little, but not break it long term.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I read in the LA Times that the Dodgers are trying to keep Furcal
They were initially working on an extention before he hurt his back
Dodgers?
They’re trying to re-sign Manny, Furcal, and Lowe with No money… Also figure to be in the CC Sweepstakes. They’re broke due to the idiots in the front office dropping 36M for the rotund A. Jones and another 30something for Pierre who have a negative VORP (even better replacements in Ethier, Kemp, and even that other guy in the system). What a joke… McCourt needs to get Manny then hope he can re-up Furcal with 0 $‘s. BB should take on AJ’s contract for a yr and steal his farm system of some prospects (SS, 3B, Kemp?)
The Stockton Ports pitching staff is better than the Orioles.
I'm for that, but a Furcal signing would necessitate moving Crosby.
I doubt the A’s would pay Crosby $5.25 million to sit and sulk on the bench, especially since he can only really play one defensive position. Now, if the A’s pull the trigger on some type of Street + Crosby to the Tigers for Mags, then that would conceivably open up the spot and money for Furcal.
Getting Mags, Giambi AND Furcal would be absolutely insane…especially if the cost would only be Street, Crosby, possibly a Braden or Smith and about $20 million dollars.
However, as Trainman points out, i think the Dodgers will work really hard to keep Furcal and others will be right in line to offer him some coin if they don’t get it done.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
I would prefer to pay him $4.85 million to sit and sulk at his house, if it comes to that...
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I have a feeling Furcal's performance in Game 5
sealed his fate in L.A. They’ll overspend to keep Manny, and they have a lot of other FAs to attend to. I think they’ll let Furcal go.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The chances of signing any of these
guys is slim to none. Why would any of them even think about signing a short term deal as a stop gap with a team that has no chance of making the playoffs the next year or two. Giambi might be the only one but it scares me to think of having either Cust or Giambi in the field since one of them has to DH. The A’s would have to overpay them drastically and Beane isn’t about to do that.
The idea of a Tex signing being more reasonable in the later years is silly. Why not wait and sign a big money guy in 2010-11 when we need to fill a whole to make a run at the playoffs. His contract will be more reasonable in 2013-16. <-sarcasm
A better option would be to package Street and a couple of the AAAA players we have accumulated within the last year and make a trade for a 3rd/SS that has the potential to help us now and down the road (JJ Hardy, Gordon?).
Until then let the kids play and pray that Cahill, Anderson, and Simmons can make a new big three in a couple years.
"Badges? We don't need no stinkin badges!"
If we signed Teixeira ...
You can be sure that (with our ace training staff) that he’d end up with some longterm hurt…and us footing the bill for years. Better to sign a gaggle of lesser players(but with talent) and hope some of them can survive the A’s medical ministrations.
they would sign becuase if they did so collectively, we would definitely be in the playoff run. Seriously, tell me that if we got Giambi, Mags, and Furcal, all for the price of street and a throw-in pitcher that we wouldnt be in contention?
We'd be something like a 83 win team, which I guess is contention in the broad sense
but nothing to get excited about.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 4, 2008 7:52 PM PST up reply actions
If the A's trade for Mags AND sign Giambi AND Furcal.....
that’s 83 wins?!?
That’s 6 more wins than the A’s won this year. And I would expect improvement from, well, everyone offensively but Cust and Kurt who I expect will be similar. Plus if we were to do this, I’d expect a shiny new 3b as well.
On pitching, I think it will be about the same. Blanton and Harden’s combined ERA was around 4 and Gallagher/Gio will probably improve. Duke will regress to a mid 3 ERA.
Just looking at it cursory, I’d say a team with a Duke/Gallagher/Gio/Outman/Smith/Eveland rotation with a lineup of Furcal/Ellis/Giambi/Mags/Cust/Buck/Suzuki/let’s say, Hinske/CarGo would win more than 83 games, if not be a playoff team.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
[plugs upcoming "Projecting the Friendly" fanpost]
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
diehard
you’re going to trust the closer’s role to a guy who is one for three … LIFETIME sv/svo and back him up with a one-year 30 year old wonder ?
good luck with that !
Signing Giambi makes no sense right now...
I love the guy and I do think he can still be productive, but he does not fit what this team needs right now or for the future. I’ve written about this before, and if BB does end up signing Giambi you can all throw it back in my face. I can take it.
I really don’t think BB will sign Giambi, we already have Giambi on our team and he doesn’t cost us 10+ mill a year, which is what I think it will take for us to sign Giambi. Jack Cust is the outfield playing Jason Giambi, left handed power, doesn’t play his position well, hits for good power, gets on base a lot, and doesn’t hit for a high average. The only way Giambi doesn’t take AB’s from Cust or any of our young talented OF’s is if he plays in the field, and he is frightening terrible at 1B, I would hate to see that. AND any power we currently have in our lineup is from the left side, why would BB bring in another Lefty power hitter. We need some pop from the right hand side. I don’t know what BB is going to this off season (if anything), but I really don’t think he will bring back Giambi. BB could take that 10 million and spend so much more wisely and more productively.
Have you seen Joey Devine pitch?
He is an absolute beast. I would 100% love to have him as my closer. I think Street is really good when healthy, as evidenced by his last month of the season, but he has too many nagging injuries to be depended on as a closer. Plus, bullpen depth is one of the strengths of this team.
Street's been healthier than Devine
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 4, 2008 7:53 PM PST up reply actions
That's not true
Devine has been every bit as healthy as Street (i.e., neither has been healthy consistently but both may be fine going forward). Devine is on the rise and projects to be a solid closer for the next few years, while Street is a very good pitcher who ideally should be a great set-up man rather than a decent closer. Going forward, I wouldn’t be surprised if Devine is the more effective pitcher from 2009-11. That’s not a knock on Street; Devine just has the better stuff.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
While I agree that Devine has a slight advantage in raw stuff,
Street’s considerable advantage in command is worth at least as much in my eyes.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
You're not going wrong either way
The perceived value of a closer is so much higher than their actual value that almost anyone with that rep is a good candidate for a trade.
Just to clarify, I’m speaking of “closer” as opposed to “bullpen ace,” which seems to be a lot cheaper but is probably at least as valuable.
Does anyone expect BB to sign any veteran
starting pitchers? The more I think about Giambi, I just don’t see it due to the low budget A’s…
I would not advocate the move but I bet BB would sign “Nomar” because they could platoon him at 1b, 3b, DH, and maybe SS ??? Assuming he would be healthy?
He would come cheaper than other target FA’s and could provide leadership for the frugal A’s…
"What do we do with Crosby? Well, in my neighborhood, trash goes out on Mondays." ~ Nico
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