AN Community Prospect List - #11

by Zonis on Nov 30, 2008 7:06 PM PST Comment 97 comments

Josh Donaldson, C wins the #10 spot on the list with 36% of the vote.

AthleticsNation Top Prospect List:

New Addition to the Candidates List: Josh Outman, LHP

CANDIDATES:
Pitchers:
Michel Inoa, RHP
Brett Hunter, RHP
Fautino De Los Santos, RHP
Henry Rodriguez, RHP
Arnold Leon, RHP
Josh Outman, LHP

Infielders/Catchers:
Nino Leyja, SS
Jemile Weeks, 2B

Outfielders:
Rashun Dixon, CF
Corey Brown, CF

POSSIBLES:
Pitchers:
Tyson Ross, RHP
Sam Demel, RHP
Andrew Carignan, RHP
Andrew Bailey, RHP
Jared Lansford, RHP
Craig Italiano, RHP
Carlos Hernandez, LHP
Jason Fernandez, RHP
Ryan Webb, RHP
Michael Madsen, RHP
Jamie Richmond, RHP
Jeff Gray, RHP
Travis Banwart, RHP
Ryan Doolittle, RHP
Daniel Thomas, RHP
Ricardo Penalba, RHP

Infield/Catcher:
Dusty Coleman, SS
Jason Christian, SS
Eric Patterson, IF
Petey Paramore, C
Landon Powell,C
Anthony Recker, C
Jeff Baisley, 3B
Cliff Pennington, SS
Gregorio Petit, SS
Justin Sellers, SS
Franklin Contreras, SS

Outfield:
Matt Sulentic, OF
Jeremy Barfield, OF
Matt Spencer, OF/1B
Grant Desme, OF
Tyreace House, OF
Javier Herrera, OF
Danny Putnam, OF
JD Pruit, OF
Robin Rosario, OF
Chris Berroa, OF
Jose Crisostomo, OF
David Thomas, OF

Poll

Who is the A's #11 Prospect?

Michel Inoa, RHP

82 votes

Brett Hunter, RHP

5 votes

Fautino De Los Santos, RHP

28 votes

Henry Alberto Rodriguez, RHP

19 votes

Arnold Leon, RHP

3 votes

Josh Outman, LHP

18 votes

Nino Leyja, SS

2 votes

Jemile Weeks, 2B

19 votes

Rashun Dixon, CF

25 votes

Corey Brown, CF

6 votes

207 votes | Poll has closed

2 recs | Comment 97 comments

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Comments

Again I ask, does anyone have that Scout.com prospect list again?

I’d like to add anyone I missed.

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by Zonis on Nov 30, 2008 7:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Guys on their list not on here:

Everidge
Hodsdon
Capra
Mitchinson
Mitchell

Also, Ronny Morla. I’m serious, guys. He’s posted a sub-4 FIP 2 years running and showed some nice strikeout ability in Vancouver this year (not his fault the Canadians’ defense was horrible this season), and he just turned 20 in May. Beane’s talked about him as a sleeper before, and apparently he has pretty good stuff. He should at least make the top 30.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 8:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

PT

can you give me their full name, position, link to thebaseballcube, and where you think they’d be on the list of possibles? Kind of like I have above?

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by Zonis on Nov 30, 2008 8:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tommy Everidge— 1B for Midland, 10th round pick in 2004. I don’t know why he’s on their list; he’s an organizational player at best. Already survived Rule 5 once, and I’d say there’s a 99% chance he’ll do so again.

Scott Hodsdon— SP for KC, 6th round pick in 2007. Again, don’t understand the inclusion. 23 year olds in Low A= not my thing.

Anthony Capra— SP for KC. 4th round pick this year. I didn’t like this pick, but his tiny sample size doesn’t say much about him. Somewhere in the 40s, probably.

Scott Mitchinson— Big Aussie SP for KC (apparently someone there is a Cougars fan), was a minor league Rule 5 pick last year. Posted crazy good numbers but was way too old for the league this year, and I think he was hurt part of the time. Again, I’d have him around the 40s.

Jermaine Mitchell— Toolsy CF for Stockton. 5th round pick in 2006. Had a good 2007 but a smelly 2008. Could still find “it” and break out; I’d have him around the late 20s or early 30s.

I’ve already talked up Ronny Morla.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 10:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

so basically, I'll stick em on the end of the lists.

Mitchell was a dissapointment, I must say.

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by Zonis on Nov 30, 2008 10:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He's really had a problem with strikeouts

He’s like a power-free version of Corey Brown, which is sort of mediocre.

I really hope the same thing doesn’t happen with Dixon… but I’m also prepared to accept that it’s a real possibility, which is why you won’t see me putting him in my top 15 yet. The advantage Dixon has is that he’s a lot younger and basically doesn’t know how to play baseball yet, so there’s a lot more upside in terms of potentially getting the K’s down to a manageable level.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 10:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Strikeouts are a major problem

But I think it’s worth pointing out that Dixon hit 8 HR’s in 45 AZR games this year while Mitchell hit 10 HR’s in 114 Cal league games. Dixon has shown more power than Mitchell so I don’t think they’re too comparable as prospects.

by DiegoAsFan on Nov 30, 2008 11:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Dixon also could not get a double to save his life....

because by the time he realized it, he was on 3rd.

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by Zonis on Nov 30, 2008 11:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's easy to be in love with Kane County pitchers

Since the league ERA is like 1.75 (it’s not that low, but it’s really a place where offensive players go to…not hit). I would hope a legitimate site like Scout.com isn’t overrating all Midwest League pitchers.

by thejd44 on Dec 2, 2008 2:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey Zonis

Are you talking about the Scout top 50? Here is what they have posted so far.

50. Scott Hodsdon
49. Tom Everidge
48. Jeff Gray
47. Justin Sellers
46. Gregorio Petit
45. Brad Kilby
44. Cliff Pennington
43. Robin Rosario
42. Landon Powell
41. Travis Banwart
40. Anthony Capra
39. Scott Mitchinson
38. Jeff Baisley
37. Anthony Recker
36. Daniel Thomas
35. Jermaine Mitchell
34. Jason Hernandez
33. Andrew Bailey
32. Matt Spencer
31. Jared Lansford
30. Nino Leyja
29. Craig Italiano
28. Grant Desme
27. Jason Christian
26. Josh Outman
25. Sam Demel
24. Dusty Coleman
23. Carlos Hernandez
22. Rashun Dixon
21. Javier Herrera
20. Matt Sulentic
19. Tyson Ross
18. Arnold Leon
17. Andrew Carignan
16. Brett Hunter

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Nov 30, 2008 10:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Herrera before Dixon?

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Nov 30, 2008 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Herrera has all the tools if he could only stay healthy

Should have the next 5 on Monday, It will be interesting who they put there.
I also like that both Hunter and Ross are in the top 20. 2008 was a good draft.

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Nov 30, 2008 10:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Petit at #46? Pennington at #44?

Desme before Leyja? Who-dat reliever Daniel Thomas at #36?

It’s a puzzling list in many respects.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually I am more interested in who they have listed in the top 15 and where they fit.

I really don’t know much about the scout.com guys who put this together but I figure they probably know a thing or two about baseball.

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Nov 30, 2008 11:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, sure

I don’t mean to dump on them overmuch. Any list will have a few warts and gut-hunch calls. I just happen to disagree with those particular ones.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 11:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Here is a piece from today's conversation with Gil Patterson

I was really lucky with the guys who came. James Simmons came and he was just tremendous. He was a good leader for the younger players and he got his stuff accomplished that he needed to get accomplished, as well as pitching more innings to get his totals up to maybe be able to throw 200 innings next year or something.

Daniel Thomas was throwing 92 when he was drafted, and now he is throwing 94 to 97. His demeanor and his mental approach has gotten so much better. He has gotten his delivery under control and he is still aggressive.

Anthony Capra, Tyson Ross and Brett Hunter made great strides. Hunter made maybe the biggest strides of anyone there and then ended up pitching in Hawaii a little bit. Then there was a little guy from Canada named Mathieu Leblanc Poirier, who by the end was building on some good things for the future. A good fastball. Just like we said about the some of the Latin guys earlier, not over-powering at this point, 89, 90, 91 right now, but he kept the ball down and had good sink on it. And then, he’s got a curveball that is very, very good. He really made some good strides towards the end.

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Dec 1, 2008 5:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i thought the same thing with both Petit and Pennington

I would have pegged them around mid 20s or so.
Seems like their method to this has no rhyme or reason.
They’ll put one guy higher than another because he has a higher ceiling, whereas guy A has proven himself.
What gives?

by stranahanahan on Nov 30, 2008 11:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think I'd have Pennington or Petit very high

Right now they look like at best Utility players. They would only start for us because our current options are that bad (Crosby, Hannahan). If Chavez came back, and Furcal was signed, they would have no use for us outside of 1 being a Backup Infielder/Pinch Runner.

If thats what they are going to become, and have become, then they are not going to be very high on the list compared to players who could be much more.

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by Zonis on Nov 30, 2008 11:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't have them very high either

but the 40s is way too low.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Nov 30, 2008 11:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

but those two can almost certainly be utility players, which will be a lot more than some of the prospects above them will ever contribute.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2008 12:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

but being a Utility Player is not really worth a whole lot-there are a ton of them and they are not hard to find

Therefore, any chance to be a Starter or Better instantly puts them ahead of Petit or Pennington, who have now become just Utility Players.

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by Zonis on Dec 1, 2008 1:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

6 years of Willie Bloomquist (stereotypical utility guy) is probably worth about 4 wins above replacement

I’m pretty sure Grant Desme doesn’t project to produce 4 wins above replacement at this point. He’s barely even taken the field.

Rinse and repeat for the other 20 or so guys who should be behind those two.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2008 1:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Right

Guys like Mitchison, Desme, and Jermaine Mitchell don’t seem very likely to have a major league career of any sorts. And then there’s guys like Kilby (ahead of Petit) and Recker (ahead of both) left open to the Rule V draft altogether. And I don’t like Javier Herrera at all at this point, and I can’t imagine many people do, but there he is up at 21. It’s very strange, to say the least.

RagingHarden: Yeah if you get 20 starts out of me I'll be shocked. Like, I'll wreck my drawers.

by walk off bunt on Dec 1, 2008 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If Herrera turns into a solid player

“I’ll eat my hat”

…………

***crickets***

"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox

by Gallagher's Watermelons on Dec 1, 2008 3:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You're underrating just how valuable making the major leagues (and sticking there) actually is

by thejd44 on Dec 2, 2008 2:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Desme

I’d have Desme above Leyja in my list too. Leyja had a nice short season but he still profiles at a utility infielder. Despite missing the last season Desme’s has the tools be a starter.

From that list Herrera is definately too high. What with all the steriod, injury, performance and now age concerns I would probably have him around 40. Demel and Outman are too low – I’d have them in the 15-20 range. Bailey is too low as well. Banwart is way too low and he is a better prospect than Capra, Mitchenson, Thomas and both the Hernandezs.

I am not a big fan of that list.

by DeJay on Dec 1, 2008 1:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm still rolling with Weeks

But the temptation to vote Inoa is getting very strong. I think Outman should go on soon as well.

Also, I think in terms of skills and projection Weeks and Cardenas are very close as prospects. They shouldn’t be very far apart on the list in my opinion.

by DiegoAsFan on Nov 30, 2008 7:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Maybe you're right, and I should add Outman soon..

I have to take him off the list so I can add him soon though….

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by Zonis on Nov 30, 2008 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

can we put cardenas back in the poll?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Nov 30, 2008 7:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He deserves to be listed twice, since I think we acquired two Cardenases when we made the trade

but Joe Blanton ate the other

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by Zonis on Nov 30, 2008 7:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I was unclear

I meant he should go on the actual list, as he is obviously already on the poll

by DiegoAsFan on Nov 30, 2008 7:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In terms of ARL, Cardenas is way ahead of Weeks

He’s at least held his own at AA; Weeks hasn’t shown anything above low-A ball at this point (though I think he should start in Stockton next season).

Also, Cardenas can play third and maybe short and Weeks can’t really…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 8:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that Cardenas should be above Weeks

I just think that they reasonably project to be similar players. Cardenas could develop more power than Weeks, but I think Weeks will have better OBP’s and be a threat to steal bases. And on defense I don’t think 2B/CF is that much below 3B/2B.

by DiegoAsFan on Nov 30, 2008 8:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

2 points:

First, Cardenas would probably be OK in CF too, there’s just no reason to put him out there, and

Second, Weeks is no guarantee to be a plus CF. He’s fast, but Alex Sanchez was fast too and he was horrible out there.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 8:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

my favorite Alex Sanchez memory...

was when he played for the Giants in that Route we had against them a few years back. The one where the Giants made a dozen errors and he was in the middle of half of them.

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by Zonis on Nov 30, 2008 8:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I was at that game!

It was hi-fricking-larious. Just when you thought “Well it can’t get worse” it did almost immediately. I miss Alex Sanchez.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 30, 2008 9:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I swear he must have set the record for most teams played with that season

Brewers, Tigers, Rays, Giants…

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by Zonis on Nov 30, 2008 9:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, there's always room for a .330 hitter

Well, unless he’s Alex Sanchez.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 30, 2008 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think neither player looks to be plus defender anywhere

There’s no guarantee that Weeks will be a plus CF, but I don’t think Cardenas is guaranteed to be a plus defender at whatever position he ends up at either. I don’t think either player is going to make their way with the glove, so I tend to rate them on how I think the bat will play.

by DiegoAsFan on Nov 30, 2008 8:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Cardenas will be a plus defender at third

I’m hoping for Pedro Feliz with about 100 extra points of OBP… which would be pretty damn valuable.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 9:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I should clarify-- I think he'll get some of those OBP points through having a higher average

and conversely he doesn’t have Feliz’s power. I see Feliz as something like .250/.280/.400 as a hitter while I’m hoping for about .290/.380/.400 from Cardenas.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 9:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yea, I can agree with that

But I also see about the same line with Weeks, but with more stolen bases and I think he can be and average defender at second base.

by DiegoAsFan on Nov 30, 2008 9:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Cardenas just looks like a gritty ballplayer

He’s the kind of guy who seems like he’ll just play and cut the bullshit.
I like his style.

by stranahanahan on Nov 30, 2008 11:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately, you could say the same of Jack Hannahan...

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 11:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah..

however, Hannahan didnt show up in the minors til age 26, whereas Cardenas is 21 and already has signs of life…

by stranahanahan on Dec 1, 2008 12:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think the point is

that Cardenas CAN play SS, 2B or 3B.

Whereas Weeks is limited to 2B. If he can’t make it there, he’d have to play LF, and he does NOT have the bat for LF.

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by Zonis on Nov 30, 2008 8:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

There is definitely a difference

Cardenas is higher up on the defensive spectrum, but I think Weeks will make a good a second basemen so I don’t see the difference as being that great.

by DiegoAsFan on Nov 30, 2008 8:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Why can't he play center?

by thejd44 on Dec 2, 2008 2:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Why can he?

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by Zonis on Dec 2, 2008 4:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He runs fast

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2008 4:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sounds like you don

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Nov 30, 2008 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

't think they're similar at all ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Nov 30, 2008 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

I think both will be average second basemen who can hit for average with good on base percentage and minimal power. Cardenas has the potential to hit a few more homers and Weeks controls the zone a little better, but overall I think they bring a lot of the same skills to the table.

by DiegoAsFan on Nov 30, 2008 9:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

this is getting tough

i think good arguments could be made for at least eight of these candidates, including outman who was just added.

i’m going with FDLS just because i like his name, but i think this is about when the 16-17 year olds like inoa and dixon should start getting serious consideration.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Nov 30, 2008 7:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

We still have players who haven't made the Candidate List yet

who could be in other team’s Top 10 prospect lists (Coleman, Ross, Sulentic)

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Nov 30, 2008 7:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

btw the henry rodiguez link goes to FDLS.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Nov 30, 2008 7:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Who knows where it will eventually go?

Maybe it will go here Henry Rodriguez or here, here, or here.

by ervance on Nov 30, 2008 8:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Lol

Touche.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 8:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

QOTM

by thejd44 on Dec 2, 2008 2:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

fixed

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by Zonis on Nov 30, 2008 8:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Vote Outman

At this point I’m voting Outman over Inoa, because even though Inoa has a large upside, Outman is a known commodity. We’ve seen Outman pitch in the big leagues and seen he has the upside of a mid-rotation starter, while all we know about Inoa is hype.

I’m not saying Inoa is a bad pitcher, just that he should be picked after Outman.

Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.

by Threepwood XX on Nov 30, 2008 7:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Don't get the Outman love

There are many pitchers I’d rather have than Rodriguez but Outman’s not really one of them. He has command problems without the crazy strikeout rate, and his upside as a reliever is somewhat limited by the fact that he’s lefthanded and has a sizable platoon split.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 8:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The straighth of Outman's fastball concerns me,

but a lefty with a mid-90s fastball and good breaking pitch is worth something. More if he can walk less than 4BB/9IP, but…yeah.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 30, 2008 9:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Shrug

I’m not saying he’s worthless, just that I’d rather have a number of other pitchers in the system who aren’t on the list yet (Leon, Demel, Hunter, Ross, DLS and, yes, Rodriguez). He’ll probably have a fair approximation of Alan Embree’s career, or at least the first 10 years of it.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I voted Weeks again

I’m a sucker for polished college players, especially MI in our system. I think Weeks will turn out to be a very useful player down the road whether it’s at second or center.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Nov 30, 2008 8:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Went with Dixon

Looks like Inoa’s running away with it though.

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Nov 30, 2008 8:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Weeks

BTW, anyone else like the new layout at baseball cube?
The scouts ratings on the right are interesting, but a bit off. I mean, Weeks got great ratings (too high in my mind)…

Scouting Report
Power: 84
Speed: 82
Contact: 84
Patience: 86

Those are solid all around, most guys don’t get marks like that high at all.

On a separate note, which Weeks brother do you guys see being more valuable?

by stranahanahan on Nov 30, 2008 8:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

The site is completely useless for me right now

The right hand columns (with all the rate stats) are cut off somehow.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 8:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

we will have to wait till the upgrades are complete

for me, the stats are all the way at the bottom of the page

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by Zonis on Nov 30, 2008 9:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry, but there is no way at all that Inoa should be on ANY top prospect list yet

I’ll say it again – he’s 16 years old and he has never thrown a pitch in North America.

by mikev on Nov 30, 2008 8:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

+1

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Nov 30, 2008 8:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's an organizational top 11 list

You don’t think he’s one of the top 330 prospects in baseball?

Not to put too fine a point on it, that’s cracked out.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 8:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I have no idea.

I’m sure he’s probably very good.

What’s his K:BB rate in the minors so far, again?

by mikev on Nov 30, 2008 8:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

s/rate/ratio

by mikev on Nov 30, 2008 8:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

0/0

can be anything you want it to be. I choose to interpret 0/0:0/0 to be approx 3.8:1. That’s why I voted for Inoa in this spot.

by ervance on Nov 30, 2008 9:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I feel like there have been 330 of these...

lists.

by IM4Oakgal on Nov 30, 2008 9:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I hope that the 10th best A's prospect

ranks a hell of a lot higher than 330th in baseball. If not, we have a league-average farm.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Nov 30, 2008 9:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure

The 10th best A’s prospect is, I’d guess, somewhere around #110, which is exceptional depth.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 10:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

But mikev, without having thrown a pitch in North America,

he still has a certain probability of making his way up to the big leagues and a certain probability of being ok, good, very good, or great. Why can’t you compare the chance of winning by putting money on “00” eight times vs. the chance of winning putting money on “red”?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 30, 2008 9:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Inoa

Is who I went with. I don’t know how often “Once in a generation” is tossed around (certainly more than once a generation), but when the A’s. THE FREAKING A’s go out and spend a record setting amount of money on a pitcher I imagine he has to be pretty good.

I’m going to have trouble voting in Dixon or Leyja because rookie ball numbers don’t mean much to me. But 5 million dollars by the A’s speaks volumes for me.

by Emmett89 on Nov 30, 2008 9:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

We're now reaching the point where

any vote I make is just a wild-ass guess.

Ever since about #3 I’ve thought to myself, “All these other guys here know way more about our prospects than I do. Why should I presume to put my opinion up against theirs?”

But then I notice that most of the polls closed with 200+ votes, and I figure, well, maybe 100 of them know more than I do, but I’m still ahead of the other 100. So what the hell, I’ll keep voting. Even if I know hardly anything about some of the guys on the list now….

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Nov 30, 2008 9:41 PM PST reply actions 1 recs

Inoa...for now

It’s next vote that I’ll go differently than many, many people. I’m going Leon after Inoa until Leon gets on. Leon is, to me, a mix between Inoa and Josh Donaldson. I don’t mean he can play C and pitch. What I mean is that this is a guy with a ton of potential, but also with stats from A ball and above.

Leon has the stuff and is only just turned 20. But he also has the polish. He succeeded in A ball this year (as a reliever) and struck out 9K/9 IP. It was a small sample though. But he’s also shown past success in the Mexican League which is about the equivalent of AA. And he’s gonna be a starter next year. If you want a sleeper who’ll rocket up the charts next year, Leon is your guy.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Nov 30, 2008 10:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

It'd be awesome if you had a guy who could play C and pitch

No need to waste a roster slot on a backup catcher…

Please hold the Mike Morse jokes.

I too will be voting for Leon until he gets on from this point forward. He was the talk of the A’s spring training staff this season— as a 19-year-old. That’s not easy to do.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 11:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I want to see a guy play C and pitch

at the same time. Besides Sonic the Hedgehog.

by danmerqury on Nov 30, 2008 11:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Bugs Bunny

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by Zonis on Nov 30, 2008 11:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Obscure historical trivia: this is actually illegal by baseball rules

The catcher has to be within the catcher’s box when the ball is released.

Why? Well, back in the day, when there was no one on and fewer than 2 strikes, teams would play the catcher in the infield! Think about it— there’s no need to actually catch a pitch when the batter doesn’t make contact with it and there are less than 2 strikes.

For reasons that should be obvious, the umpires were not real pleased with this situation and a rule was quickly put in that required the catcher to actually, you know, catch.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2008 1:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

One presumes the umpires

made a premature jump when they elected to call balls and strikes from behind the plate instead of the pitchers mound. Otherwise, our game could have taken a turn for the worse.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Dec 1, 2008 7:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Holy Cow were loaded.

Whether through Fate or Acts of some unknown force, someone on this prospect list is going to bust out & be exceptional in the next two years. There is just too much talent. Aside from the Rays, our farm system has to be rated the overall # 2 system in terms of overall talent, tools, projections, etc. I sincerely hope all of these guys have good health & good luck. May the planets align.

by alpine26 on Nov 30, 2008 11:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Its safe to assume we'd be ranked ahead of the Rays

the #1 team, if not us, will be the Rangers.

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by Zonis on Nov 30, 2008 11:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed

The Rays system didn’t progress like the A’s system did this year— and obviously losing a stud like Longoria doesn’t help either, though the A’s graduated a lot of talent too (Devine, Ziegler, Gonzalez, Barton, Sweeney).

The margin with the Rangers is razor-thin, though.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2008 12:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Your right Zonis & PT

It’s all conjecture, & what could have been, but where would Smoak be ranked on this list? I hope this hasn’t been discussed before in your threads. Would it be safe to say he would have been in the top 10? This leads me to a point about us picking Weeks. The Cardinals didn’t slam clipboards on the ground & start cursing when we took Weeks. I think they were elated to pick Wallace. I also think we would have taken Smoak in a millisecond. We picked for need & we made what appeared to be an overdraft.

Is it also safe to say that your first round pick should by talent alone make it to a teams top 10 list the following year? For an example look at Aaron Hicks with the Twins. He is their # 1 rated prospect. For Weeks to not even make our Top 10 list is a testament to the strength of our farm system & to Weeks as a overdraft. Am I wrong?

by alpine26 on Dec 1, 2008 12:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Or you could look at it this way

If Inoa was eligible to be drafted he would have been gone in one of the first three slots. He’s the A’s real #1 pick, and even he didn’t make the top ten.

In fact, none of the A’s local or international bonus babys (Inoa, Hunter, Dixon, Coleman, Leon, or Rosario) made the top ten, and most of these guys could have been first or second round picks of the draft wasn’t broken and the MLB had assigned slot bonuses.

It’s really a testament to Beane rebuilding the farm system that even after skimming the top off our farm system last year, once in a decade talents still aren’t able to crack the top ten.

Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.

by Threepwood XX on Dec 1, 2008 12:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Smoak is the Rangers, a pretty equivilent system to the A's, #3 Prospect.

I would sure as hell rank him ahead of Carter for us, so he’d be our #3 Prospect in all likelyhood as well.

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Dec 1, 2008 1:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If Smoak was in the system, I'd rate him #3...

but he was as much an underdraft as Weeks was an overdraft. I was stunned that he made it to #11, through the 1B-starved Nats and the generally talent-starved Astros. Well, picks like that are why they’re talent-starved… not that I hate Jason Castro, but he wasn’t that good.

Weeks would actually have been a very plausible pick for the Cardinals given their serious lack of depth at middle infield, but I imagine they would have taken Wallace anyway.

Weeks failing to make the top 10 is a reflection of three factors. You hit two of them, but the third is the injury. Had he played 60 games with no injury posting the numbers he did (more BB than K, near .300 average, solid power) I would have rated him probably 12th, right behind Inoa, and maybe a bit higher.

You could think of it another way: thanks to the trades, the A’s got a huge, onetime influx of talent into the system. If you toss that out, Weeks would rank about 8th or 9th for me among the “native” A’s system prospects.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2008 1:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs