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Possible Angels Rotation...gulp

Here is the article from mlb.com: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081126&content_id=3694591&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp, definitely somewhat of a rosterbation piece, but Sabathia seems somewhat likely, and Peavy could definitely happen as well. We would just have to hope the Yankees make this impossible.

Hypothetically anyway, if the Angels sported a rotation of Peavy, Sabathia, Lackey, Santana, Saunders...I could see the A's being screwed for a couple of years. Our offense had better be a TON better than theirs if this rotation were to come to fruition. Scary idea.

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I will celebrate if an NL team signs CC.

Even if that NL team is the Giants.

Even if CC actually pitches well for the Giants.

And, if they get CC and Peavy, you’re betting that Teixeira isn’t coming to Anaheim, and Vlad will be walking after the 2009 season. So the Angels offense will suck horribly.

I know that's a pisser, baby.

by Blicks on Nov 27, 2008 11:52 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I might get laughed at here but that rotation isn't as scary as you might think

I am not sold on Peavy, and CC has a problem (to date in his career) pitching to Oakland hitters. Milwaukee did not do CC any favors by pitching him on 3 days rest about 1,000 times at the end of the season.

Peavy (yes it’s a small sample) has been less effective against the AL over 3 years. Question though, how many times has he been on DL? For some reason I keep thinking he’s an injury waiting to happen.

Santana owns the A’s. Lackey only pitches well because the hitters look at his facial expressions as he pitches instead of looking at the ball coming to the plate.

by Trainman on Nov 27, 2008 11:57 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Short of either pitcher breaking down

That rotation will own us and every other team in the majors; of that I have no doubt. Although their offense won’t be getting any better they won’t need much since they’ll be giving up so little.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Nov 27, 2008 12:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude,

…be reasonable. Peavy is the shit and so is Sabathia. If the Angels were to land both of these guys then… game over. Lackey, although I hate that redneck bastard, is also pretty fantastic.

by jdub69 on Nov 29, 2008 1:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

How did we feel going into last season with the Tigers lineup? I think everyone thought they would KILL, and they sucked hard. How many times over the years did the Yankees put together a dream team only to have them barely compete? I am not afraid. Looks good on paper is not the same as 162 games, injuries, sub-par seasons. Looks ominous, but they are only human.

I dream of Fremont and rainbows

by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2008 12:00 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

If they have that rotation, it will be accompanied by a truly bad offense

They don’t have the bucks to pay for that group and a good hitter, which means their lineup is something like:

Figgins
Kendrick
Guerrero
Hunter
Napoli
Morales
Matthews
Wood
Aybar

Doesn’t strike a lot of fear into my heart.

I also can’t see where they’re getting the trade chips to get Peavy.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 27, 2008 12:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The lineup will probably be even worse than that.

If I saw a Peavy to Angels deal, it would probably something like

Wood + Walden + Adenhart + Kendrick/Morales (probably Morales),should be the Peavy deal. Although that probably isn’t enough.

Or they do something involving Joe Saunders, opting to give up Saunders + Wood or something like that (I’m pretty much going to assume that Brandon Wood is in the deal, regardless).

I know that's a pisser, baby.

by Blicks on Nov 27, 2008 1:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And the 2008 A's...had problems!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 27, 2008 3:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

OK

When your 2nd best hitter is your catcher [and he’s not a first-ballot hall of fame candidate] you’ve got problems.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 29, 2008 5:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Mike Piazza shivers in anticipation

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 30, 2008 10:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That was my first impression too

Let them spend their money on pitching that’s just as likely to break down while having to carry the weight of that offensive.

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Nov 27, 2008 1:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

For sure Guerrero and Hunter

strike a hell of a lot of fear into MLB pitchers heart. Unfortunately, a healthy Figgins, Kendrick, and Napoli don’t help matters much either.

by jdub69 on Nov 29, 2008 1:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess you're just easily scared

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 29, 2008 10:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Highly unlikely.

The Angels’ modus operandi vis-a-vis free agents in recent years has been to sneak up on guys that the market was somewhat overlooking (Hunter, Matthews, Guerrero) and working quickly to offer them more money and/or more years than anybody else…basically, giving them offers they couldn’t refuse before other teams had a chance to react.

That certainly won’t be the case with CC. The Yankees have and will likely continue to offer Sabathia significantly more money and a longer contract than deep pockets Moreno or any other owner will likely offer. So the Angels won’t be able to offer any type of distinct financial advantage. They could bank on CC willing to take 10 or so million less and a year or two less to be on the West Coast, but that’s a huge stretch…even if he was willing to do that, why wouldn’t he prefer to sign with the Giants or Dodgers instead where he can continue to dominate the National League and would age better? I just don’t see what the Halos’ major selling point would be…

I think the Peavy possibility is even more far fetched, but I would encourage them to try. To get him, the Angels would have to absolutely gut their farm system, which has significantly thinned-out over the years. They would then assume the $50+ million owed to him over the next 4 years. Since they’re already talking extension with Lackey on top of that, we would be looking at an Angel team that from 2009-2011 would have a nice 1-2 punch at the top of their rotation, but would be hamstrung with the Hunter and Matthews contracts (especially since those two will be in the twilight of their careers at that point) and would have a barren farm system and holes all over the diamond.

Basically, I’m all for the Halos trading for Peavy…

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Nov 27, 2008 12:29 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Tex + CC or Peavy worries me more than CC + Peavy - Tex

Like Taj and PT said, I’m not sure where the Angels would find the chips to land Peavy. If Towers really like Kendrick, then I could see him plus Weaver going a long way to getting a deal done but there’d still have to be another major piece involved.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 27, 2008 1:00 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

I’d prefer Teixeira out of LAA.

I know that's a pisser, baby.

by Blicks on Nov 27, 2008 1:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

League ranks in walks for the Padres minor league affiliates:

AAA- 1st
AA- 1st
A+ – 1st
A – 1st
A- – 1st
R- 5th

Howie Kendrick’s walk rate had he qualified for the batting title this season: T-145th of 147

I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess he’s not really the guy they’re looking for.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 27, 2008 1:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Padres record in 2008

63-99 Last in the NL West and 21 games behind the 1st place L.A. Dodgers.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 27, 2008 2:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying it's the greatest strategy ever... just that it IS their strategy, and Kendrick doesn't fit it

It’d probably help if they didn’t draft guys like Matt Bush. There are plenty of GOOD players who walk a lot…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 27, 2008 2:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Lackey is a FA after 2009 ...

and is in line for a HUGE raise - probably somewhere in the neighborhood of an extra $10$12m on top of his 2009 salary … having all three of them past 2009 would probably cost upwards of $60m per …

they also have $29m per committed to Matthews and Hunter, which would leave them with five players making $90m, and $30m or so to fill out the rest of their roster …

Speier and Shields are also owed a combined $11m in 2010 …

Santana will be in his second year of arbitration …

If their remaining 17 players all made minimum wage, that would lave their payroll somewhere around $113m … which isn’t going to happen, because 2010 is going to see virtually all of their young players hit arbitration (Morales, Kendrick, Willits, Napoli, Saunders, Mosely, Aybar, Mathis) …

In short, the rotation might be able to hold the opposition under 700 runs … but I wouldn’t be on the offense topping that number …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Nov 27, 2008 1:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if it's fiscally possible or not

What if Moreno is willing to bump payroll to $125 million or more?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 27, 2008 1:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He might have to, just to keep his arbi players for 2010 ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Nov 27, 2008 1:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I would welcome that rotation if their lineup was something like PTs assumption

Figgins (injury risk, but hits and gets on base when healthy)
Kendrick (injury risk, but hits for average when healthy)
Guerrero (in his declining years, still will put up numbers but again, injury risk)
Hunter (the one guy who I see staying consistent, though I feel like his defense will start to diminish, I saw him make a wrong step on a ball a few times this season)
Napoli (30 homer guy if they let him start on a regular basis)
Morales (nothing scary.)
Matthews (overpaid, overplayed, useless)
Wood (do they really give this guy another shot?)
Aybar (league average guy, maybe a bit better)

There you have it, a completely league average offense, with some gaping holes. I would say the A’s offense next year (with an upgrade at SS, hopefully Furcal, maybe someone else) would easily match up at almost every position. I would be fine with them putting that money towards Sabathia (if they get Sabathia, they will not get Peavy, there’s no way they have the depth to make a deal, plus San Diego wants major league ready talent, so I would assume they would lose at least one starting position player…

by stranahanahan on Nov 27, 2008 1:21 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Gotta be one way or the other.

I don’t think the Angels are going to give up most of their young talent in the minors to trade for Peavy and then sign Sabathia.

More likely they make a run at Tex first and then maybe another pitcher, but it seems like an awful lot to hope for all of the above to happen unless you have unlimited payroll and are also rolling in prospects.

by mrod on Nov 28, 2008 11:10 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think they should resign Lackey and pass on C.C.

   Just looking at postseason #’s, Lackey is a far better pitcher.

   Even without Tex, their offense isn’t as bad as everybody thinks. At least not if the young players keep progressing. However, with Tex, Look out cause they will be full of dangerous hitters, as long as the youth progress.

by Big Bad , "VLAD"! on Nov 28, 2008 7:00 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I agree that their offense isn't as bad as everyone thinks

Until Vlad goes down, the Angels have enough ways to hurt you that they will win more 4-3 and 3-2 games than they will lose.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 29, 2008 12:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They would be okay in 09 ...

when they still have Vlad and Lackey is still relatively cheap … the problems start in 2010 …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Nov 29, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, thats true, but thats all their offense will do
Even without Tex, their offense isn’t as bad as everybody thinks. At least not if the young players keep progressing. However, with Tex, Look out cause they will be full of dangerous hitters, as long as the youth progress.

So having Teixeira, it completely changes the makeup of their lineup?
I disagree!
If they have Tex, than him and Napoli are really the only 2 guys who scare me. Vlad, yes, but his best days are behind him. While he will still put up reliable numbers, I feel like he’ll turn in Garret Anderson numbers circa 2005-2006 (not bad numbers, but not superstar either).
Hunter will put up similar numbers as well, but after that, i dont feel like the other guys can even hurt you, they’ll just slap singles through the middle…

by stranahanahan on Nov 29, 2008 2:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hunter's defense is declining

and I see his offensive numbers beginning to take their sweet decline, all while Hunter is still signed to that albatross. His overall numbers will leave much to be desired.

I know that's a pisser, baby.

by Blicks on Nov 29, 2008 4:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Just check the numbers last season pre-Tex/post-Tex, there is a marked increase in runs

   
   It is True that there is too much singles slapping going on in Anaheim.

by Big Bad , "VLAD"! on Nov 30, 2008 12:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

FYI: CC's the better pitcher

Lackey’s just got more “grit” and is the fan favorite. CC’s better and has had fewer injury issues through his career.

And, “full of dangerous hitters” is an exaggeration. IF they progress, we could say that. Progression doesn’t happen with the snap of a finger. Vlad and Napoli will carry your offense, and that’s about it. Hunter’s declining and its time to stick a fork in GMJ.

And, the Angels farm system is rather weak. Outside of Adenhart and Walden, who are both pitchers, and Wood, whose stock has fallen, you don’t have much.

I know that's a pisser, baby.

by Blicks on Nov 29, 2008 4:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Hunter's bat is declining -

I think it will by the end of his contract, but not for a couple years.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 29, 2008 7:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It depends how you look at it ...

if you are under the (accurate) assumption that he was never that good to begin with … you are correct — there is no reason to say that it is declining at this point. If for some reason you think his 2007 out lier of a season was reason enough to sign him to a long term contract … well then, you might want to be a bit concerned …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Nov 29, 2008 8:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He's a CFer who has OPSed over .800

four of the last five seasons, and has a career OPS of .795. He’s hit 20+ HRs in seven of his last eight seasons and had five seasons of 92+ RBI.

Combine that with pretty good speed (generally 18-23 bases) and I think he has been a very solid offensive player overall.

Also, if you look at his 2002, 2004, and 2006 seasons, they show that 2007 wasn’t a “career year” even if it was a “career best” season in many ways. He’s been pretty darn good – just not great.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 29, 2008 10:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He's been a very solid PLAYER, overall ...

no question … a somewhat above average bat + a good CF glove = a very good player

Of course, if he’s the second best hitter in your lineup … that’s not much of a lineup …

If he’s the best hitter, well then, you’re looking at the 2010 Angels, minus the addition of a significant free agent … think the 2008 Oakland A’s … minus Jack Cust … that’s a pretty lousy offense …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Nov 30, 2008 12:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

His OPS is inevitably slugging heavy because he has bad plate discipline

His stolen base rates are terrible— 145 out of 210 is unacceptable. That’s probably a negative in run terms.

He’s typically in the neighborhood of 10-15 runs above average offensively, with a bit of a boost for being an average defensive CF. That’s a good player, but hardly fear inspiring.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2008 12:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It may be an exaggeration, but we will have to wait and see

   Which Figgins will show, the 07 or 08 version?
   Will Kendrick put it together and compete for a batting title?
   Tex signs?
   Vlad rebounds?
   Hunter upswings?
   Napoli 30+
   Who’s in Left and what do they do? 280/20/90? (GA, KMO, Free agent?).
   The potential for 4 25+ Hr guys exists. The potential for 4+ .300 hitters exists as well
   I would say that that is a dangerous offense. However only time will tell.

   Lackey’s only time on the DL was to start last season. CC is NOT better in the postseason, and that as we all know is what takes a team to the promised land.
  
   I agree that Wood is overrated.

by Big Bad , "VLAD"! on Nov 30, 2008 12:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The potential for 4 25+ Hr guys exists. The potential for 4+ .300 hitters exists as well I would say that that is a dangerous offense. However only time will tell.

Same could be said for the A’s offense…
Sweeney, Buck, Suzuki, Holliday, Ellis, hell even Barton ‘could’ hit .300…
Holliday, Cust, Buck (if he homered at a rate near where he was at the end of the season), a healthy Chavez, Crosby (circa rookie year), Ellis (he did hit 19 2 years ago) could all “potentially” hit 25+ homers.
Just cuz you’ve got guys with a potential in their bat for something doesn’t mean jack shit. Half those guys on the Angels have either accomplished the feat once or have yet to.
I’m not scared of the A’s dangerous offense just because they’ve got guys who, in career years, could do such things…

by stranahanahan on Nov 30, 2008 1:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Come on, Buck and Barton didn't even come close! (Unless you consider .226 close), Ellis hit .234 or somesuch.

    Compare that with Figgins, former 290 and 320 +,
    Kendrick, hit over 300
    Tex, hit over 300
    Vlad hit over 300
    there’s the 4.
    I am being realistic, I’m not even saying Hunter could hit .300, cause he never has!

  Holliday gives the A’s a huge boost, and the whole offense should be better. Just like the Angels with Tex. I don’t think that is a too far-fetched prediction.

by Big Bad , "VLAD"! on Dec 1, 2008 7:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The potential for stupid predictions exist

and we obviously don’t even have to wait and see. Everyone is number one in the winter

I dream of Fremont and rainbows

by OptimistPrime on Nov 30, 2008 11:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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