What Was BB Thinking When He Traded For Matt??
by bdemartin on Nov 23, 2008 11:43 AM PST
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Well I think I know. It's a thought completely out of left field (pun intended). From the time the trade was made official I felt that 5 years down the road BB would be greatly criticized for this trade. Not from me, maybe not from a lot of you, but by most media types. Why?? Because I feel CarGon will flurish playing in the hitting friendly confines of Coors Field. Meanwhile Matt will struggle playing in the bay and the very pitching friendly confines in Oakland.
So, why do I think this was another brillant move by BB? We all know that Boras won't allow his playes to sign contracts until there current contract has expired right?? Well if Mr. Matt's production greatly decreases in the upcoming season like I think it might. Matt's value on the open market will also decrease thus making him affordable to the A's. I don't honestly don't believe BB traded 3 young players for 1 year use from Matt. BB is loading for a run, and 1 year from Matt does not fit in those plans.
BB will sign Furcal to a 4 year deal and then re sign Matt at the end of the 2009 season to a long term deal. While our young players continue to develop, especially being able to learn from a couple vets like Matt and Rafeal, the A's will be contenders every year for several years at least.
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with the A's luck, Holliday will turn out to be a serial killer
I also have a pretty high shame threshold. @('.')@
So let me see if I follow your logic here
Beane traded for Holliday, anticipating that Matt will struggle to produce in Oakland’s less friendly confines, so he can turn around and sign the struggling Holliday to a long term deal.
Huh?
The monster at the end of this blog.
Makes as much sense to me as any other theory I've heard
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
We will die!! It isn't the first time...
…and it wont be the last time. Dying is a way of life for some Athletics’ fans.
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 23, 2008 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
Reincarnation:
It’s not just a good idea; It’s the law.
"I have more questions after these."-WaddellCanseco
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 23, 2008 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
Don't forget...
Under this logic we will then sign him to a Boras-approved long-term deal to continue to underperform in the same ballpark that made him affordable in the first place.
but then,
bring the fences in and the joke’s on Scotty boy (as well as our own pitching staff!)
"I have more questions after these."-WaddellCanseco
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 25, 2008 5:17 PM PST up reply actions
Barton, Buck, Chavez and Sweeney are all going to have career years and Holliday is going to ask Beane to sign him for a large discount because he really loves this team.
Also, the end of the world is coming!
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
You too, huh?
Also, the end of the world is coming!
Just stay off of my particular street corner, bud.
Repent., sinners..sulfur, fire & brimestone…
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 23, 2008 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
I still don't think the theory that
CarGon won’t ever be very good, Street may not have had the open-market interest people here thought, and Greg Smith has no future with Oakland (and his poor record last year makes him hard to trade for anything good) is a bad one. Also, if the A’s bullpen is as good as it can be, Street’s value is basically irrelevant because they could have 3-4 bullpen guys just as valuable. I don’t think anybody will miss Smith. And I don’t think the A’s will miss Gonzalez.
So will Holliday for one year plus 2 picks be more valuable those three? I think that’s entirely possible.
agreed.
not a flawless theory, but it’s still the one I have in my head.
additionally: the FO was getting serious pressure from Lew to compete this year. For whatever that’s worth.
Save Rajai Davis
Dont buy that
Lew and BB have always been on the same page and Lew doesn’t strike me as the Steinbrenner-type.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Nov 23, 2008 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
wow... what a spin!!!
I think he’s on to something in that Matt won’t struggle but his numbers won’t be as good. So that might shave some money off his contract. Of course, Boras is no idiot and will tell that to his suitors next year.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
He speficially said "Matt will struggle playing in the bay and the very pitching friendly confines in Oakland."
Bottom of the 1st paragraph.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I can read...
I didn’t say he was totally right. I said he was on to something.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Maybe I'm the one with the reading problem
Your sentence structure threw me.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Me failed English.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
You both unliterate is!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
But that's unpossible!
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 23, 2008 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
So, Beane will be happy...
…signing a Boras represented player to a multi-year deal that comes at a supposed discount because said represented player is still good but doesn’t produce as well as he should at the Athletic’s park? And why should we pay this Boras represented player very big money to just under-perform in Oakland? And you think that grover is spinning?
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 23, 2008 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
I thought the spinning comment was relating to bdemartin's post
The monster at the end of this blog.
Here's the deal
Holliday might OPS “just” 825-850 in Oakland. That will lower his cost even though he is literally the same hitter
To put it more literally, some dumber GM’s might misinterpret his Oakland numbers, and assume he was a coors product, and not bid. Beane get a better price because he understands/believes park adjustment numbers.
Makes some sense…
Umm,
That Holiday now (and at the current one-year contract price) was a better OF asset than Gonzalez is/was. And that Street and Smith were expendable. Just a hunch.
TWVS
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/examining-the-matt-holliday-trade/
Also why would Mr Matt want to sign a long term contract to play somewhere he hits badly?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 23, 2008 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
what happens to another matt?
matt murton…he was very produtive in 06/07
at least productive in the minors for 08, but the power disappeared.
does he have options left?
I think "very productive" is a stretch
He had an OPS of 104 and 100 respectively. And he’s never been very good defensively.
Actually, CHONE thinks he's excellent as a corner OF
He’s projected at +7 runs for next season, which is pretty good.
Take that as you will… it sort of surprised me, but hey, it’s a data point.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Wow, really?
He actually looked impressive in his short time with the A’s, but what I saw from him with the Cubs was bad. He definitely fails the eye test. I wonder what Cubs fans thought about him the past couple years (but I’m too lazy and indifferent towards Matt Murton to look up Tango’s archives).
I remember Cubs fans saying he took terrible routes/couldn't see the ball
from what little I remember
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bdemartin, I think you're overcomplicating something simpler
If Holliday puts up worse numbers overall due to park effects, it won’t be difficult to show this to his many suitors. If it did anything it would lower his perceived value to one potential suitor: Oakland.
But Holliday’s value to Oakland is not compromised by these “worse numbers” because everyone suffers for these park effects. In other words, a guy who can hit (making up numbers here) .300 with 35 HRs in Colorado and a guy who can hit .280 with 30 HRs in Oakland are going to perform equally well in Colorado, Oakland, and every other park. Someone else playing in Oakland will have the same decreased productivity as will every opposing hitter.
I think the A’s made the trade because they felt that by adding Holliday and one more key piece (e.g., Furcal) they could contend in 2009 and that they will be ok after 2009 due to the emergence of Cahill, Anderson et al and then soon after Carter, Cardenas, etc., along with either Holliday or the payroll flexibility they’ll have if he leaves.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
More to the point
IF his numbers crap out in Oakland, don’t you think he’d want to sign elsewhere?
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so far the offseason has been a buyer's market (move on over to fangraphs to see a recent post about this).
maybe Beane is trying to go for it because it’s cheaper now that it has been in recent memory. Affeldt and Dempster were both underpaid in their new contracts, Washington got Willingham and Olsen for next to nothing, the Yanks got Swish for nothing, and the A’s got Holliday for nothing that is absolutely positively sure (Street is the surest thing of the bunch, of course, but Smith is likely to regress and the jury is still WAY out on Cargon).
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
Pujols for Crosby!
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Nov 23, 2008 7:05 PM PST up reply actions
Dempster was underpaid?
4/52 for a 31 year old who was in his first season as a full time starter in 3 years?
I’d say it’s a lot more likely that deal becomes an albatross by, say, next year as opposed to Dempster being more valuable than that deal.
He does have a certain Suppan to him
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
look up what silva got last year with the M's...
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 24, 2008 6:30 AM PST up reply actions
and i never said it was a smart contract, just that he's getting paid something similar to other contracts the past few years for BAD(er) pitchers
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 24, 2008 6:39 AM PST up reply actions
lol. well i'm not saying that deal was good at all.
in fact, i think you’re right that the deal will probably become an albatross. I just think that for what a lot of pitchers have been getting in the past, this is a step down.
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 25, 2008 6:45 AM PST up reply actions
i say we throw the big bucks at matt murton instead.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
Violence is not the answer.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 24, 2008 6:31 AM PST up reply actions
I think I had temporary amnesia.
When I first saw the title of this post the other day, I thought, “What Matt is he talking about?… Oh, Matt Murton. Well, that’s random.” And I went on with my day.
Yeah, somehow I managed to forget the Holliday trade for a day or so. I’m just that special.
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