2008 Awards - Is The Win Losing Value?

by Nico on Nov 18, 2008 5:17 PM PST Comment 134 comments

This is just a short conversation starter about the awards that have been announced so far.

Cliff Lee was kind of a no-brainer for AL Cy Young, but it's worth noting that his Indians were out of the race by the All-Star Break so Lee won the award pitching most of the season for a team that spent the Summer climbing back from nowhere to respectability.

Meanwhile, the NL award went (deservingly, in my opinion) to Tim Lincecum. This was significant because not only were the Giants a losing team but Lincecum fell four wins shy of Brandon Webb's total of 22. So a pitcher who came up two short of 20 wins beat out a pitcher who exceeded 20 wins by a couple. Score one for the voters, who actually looked beyond wins and losses in evaluating the Cy Young Award.

Today Albert Pujols was named NL MVP for the third-place Cardinals, beating out the league's HR and RBI leader, Ryan Howard, who played for the first place (and eventual World Champion) Phillies. The AL MVP will likely go to a playoff participant - perhaps Dustin Pedroia of the Wild Card Red Sox, perhaps Carlos Peña of the AL champion Rays - but it's possible Josh Hamilton will get some serious consideration, which could keep the trend going.

So far it really looks like the awards have emphasized individual credentials and not team performance or superficial statistics. Except for the Gold Glove - that one still needs a whole lotta work.

(UPDATE BY BASEBALLGIRL - 6:44PM)

I was going to post this in the morning, but thought I might as well chime in on this thread, since everyone is talking about it; I have some thoughts on the Award Show too.

Lest we at AN be charged with not caring about the latest baseball news, I thought I'd do a quick run-down on the MLB awards this year. I understand that it is barely relevent to the A's this year, but I'm sure an A's player had a vote somewhere, right?

AL MVP

Dustin Pedroia - In what turned out to be a runaway victory, Pedroia was named the 2008 AL MVP in a neat follow-up to his 2007 AL Rookie of the Year award. Only Cal Ripken Jr. and Ryan Howard can boast that feat, and Pedroia's field position is also rare; the last second baseman to win the AL MVP was in 1959. Pedroia hit .326 with 17 homeruns and 20 stolen bases this year, and added a Gold Glove. (I refuse to call it "gritty Gold Glove defense"; tm MLB.com.) Pedroia received 16 first place votes, 6 second place votes, and 4 third place votes. Justin Morneau took second place with 7 first place votes, 7 second place votes, and 6 third, and Kevin Youkilis (Pedroia's teammate) secured third, with 2 first place votes, 4 second, and 4 third. Mauer, Quentin, K-rod, Hamilton, A-rod, Pena, and Sizemore rounded out the top ten.

NL MVP

Albert Pujols - It's no surprise that Pujols found himself winning the NL MVP award for the second time in his career; he has finished in the top 10 in votes every season he's played. Pujols somewhat quietly put together an amazing season in 2008; hitting .357 with a .462 OBP, a 1.115 OPS, with 37 homeruns. His walk to strikeout ratio was 104/54, and he drove in 116 runs at the plate. Pujols garnered 18 first place votes, 10 second, and 2 third; he beat out Ryan Howard for the award. Howard finished with 12 first place votes, 8 second, and 6 third. Lidge (who finished 7th in voting) took two first place votes. Rounding out the top ten; Pujols, Howard, Braun, Ramirez, Berkman, Sabathia, Wright, Lidge, Delgado, and Aramis Ramirez.

AL Cy Young

Cliff Lee - Leading the AL in wins (and no one despises this stat more than baseballgirl) with 22, and ERA with 2.54, Lee put together an amazing season, and easily took the award, with 24 first place votes. Roy Halladay was his closest competition and only earned 4 first place votes. K-rod, Matsuzaka, and Rivera round out the top five.

NL Cy Young

Tim Lincecum - In what give me hope for those with baseball award voting power, Lincecum ran away with this award, despite not reaching the "magic" number of 20 wins, even though his main competitor did, in fact, have more than 20 wins, and four more than Lincecum himself. Lincecum struck out an amazing 265 batters over his dream season, and turned in stellar game after stellar game. Lincecum, with his 23 first place votes, beat out Brandon Webb, Johan Santana, Brad Lidge, and CC Sabathia; putting him in truly elite company; the best of the best in the NL this year.

AL Rookie of the Year

Evan Longoria - It wasn't even close, as Longoria won all 28 first place votes on his way to the first ROY in Tampa Bay history; a much deserved honor for one of the players responsible for the Rays' first World Series appearance. Despite missing thirty games with a wrist injury, Longoria still played enough great baseball to run away with the award, hitting .272 with 27 homeruns and 85 RBIs to beat out Alexei Ramirez, Jacoby Ellsbury, Mike Aviles, and Armando Galarraga. If you are looking for A's coverage in this award wrap-up, here it is: Joey Devine received 1 second place vote, and our Brad Ziegler received 1third place vote. Congrats to both of them on their great seasons; bright spots in a 2008 sea of darkness.

NL Rookie of the Year

Geovany Soto - Another runaway award here; as Soto received 31 of 32 first place votes, leaving just one for second place Joey Votto. Soto hit .285 with 23 HR's and 86 RBI's in 2008 and is the first catcher since Mike Piazza to win the award. Jair Jurrjens, Jay Bruce, and Kosuke Fukudome rounded out the top five. (Edinson Volquez received 3 second place votes, but was ineligible as a rookie.)

AL Manager of the Year

Joe Maddon (Tampa Bay Rays) - I don't think there was another choice for this award. Taking a losing team in the same division as the Red Sox and Yankees, with the second-lowest payroll in the Major Leagues, to the post-season should be enough for Maddon to have guarenteed himself the award. Maddon simply needed one vote to be baseball's first unanimous Manager of the Year, but the elusive vote went to Ron Gardenhire instead. Mike Scioscia (pause for hairball cough) took third.

NL Manager of the Year

Lou Piniella (Chicago Cubs) - Sweet Lou Piniella took the Cubs to the post-season this year, and proved himself a good citizen of Chicago with the proceeds of this award. Per his contract, $100,000 will be donated to McCormick Foundation's Cubs Care because of his win. This is Piniella's third Manager of the Year award; he joins La Russa, Cox, Baker, and Leyland as the only managers to ever win three or more. Piniella beat out Charlie Manuel, Fredi Gonzalez, Joe Torre, and Tony La Russa.

Gold Gloves (AL)

C - Joe Mauer
1B - Carlos Pena
2B - Dustin Pedroia
3B - Adrian Beltre
SS - Michael Young
OF - Torri Hunter, Grady Sizemore, Ichiro Suzuki
P - Mike Mussina

Gold Gloves (NL)

C - Yadier Molina
1B - Adrian Gonzalez
2B - Brandon Phillips
3B - David Wright
SS - Jimmy Rollins
OF - Nate McLouth, Carlos Beltran, Shane Victorino
P - Greg Maddux

There we have it. Did they get it right? Who was omitted? What would you chage? Discuss.

0 recs | Comment 134 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Pedroia wins it

much as I hate the sux I can’t really argue with the choice.

by OaklandSi on Nov 18, 2008 5:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

playoff contender

I think MVP should go to the guy whose team made it to the playoffs and his team wouldnt have made it without him…

6+4+3=2

by doublezero on Nov 18, 2008 5:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Baseball, more than every other sport, is a team game

and attributing a team’s playoff appearance to one player is pretty damn hard to prove. Winning baseball games—and pennants—takes a lot more than one guy hitting a bunch of home runs in September. Shouldn’t that same player be penalized for playing shitty baseball in April and May?

"This is Rickey, calling on behalf of Rickey."

by scatterbrian on Nov 18, 2008 5:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd say baseball is less a team game than basketball, soccer, football or hockey.

It’s a lot more about individual matchups.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 18, 2008 6:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

what scatterbrain is saying is that a player can't make his team go to the playoffs on his own.

from FJM: “Albert Pujols Was Not A Good Enough Pitcher To Win The MVP”

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Nov 18, 2008 9:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

scatterbrian*

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Nov 18, 2008 9:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm obviously stating my opinion not fact...

I agree baseball is a series of individual match-ups, which is one of the beauties of the game. But I also think that baseball is the sport that has the least likelihood of having one player to carry a team for a season, or even for a series. The length of the season is obviously a chief factor, but there don’t seem to be as many instances where A) one player truly was head and shoulders above everyone else on his team, and B) the team went to the post-season. It’s pretty rare in football too, but a great QB can carry a mediocre team for 16 games. It happens in basketball frequently. I can’t really speak for soccer or hockey, but I suspect a lights-out goalie can make a good team great. Then again, they can also end games in ties, so you really have to be a “team player” to deal with that nonsense. Or if you’re McNabb I guess…

Incidentally Waddell, last night I was getting some Chinese food. As I was walking toward the door, I saw a rather chubby family of four literally waddling toward the same door, and I thought to myself “better get in there before the Waddle Cansecos.” Ah, free association….

"This is Rickey, calling on behalf of Rickey."

by scatterbrian on Nov 18, 2008 10:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ha!

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 19, 2008 5:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Like Canseco said, baseball is the exact opposite of a team sport

It’s why the statistics we see are the most useful/easiest to separate

Can't get enough of the Oakland A's or Golden State Warriors? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's and Golden Stat Hoops

by iamawesomer on Nov 18, 2008 6:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And why he's the world leader for "most HR allowed by an outfielder"?

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 18, 2008 6:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The voting instructions:

Dear Voter:

There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.

The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931:

1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.
2. Number of games played.
3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.
4. Former winners are eligible.
5. Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.

You are also urged to give serious consideration to all your selections, from 1 to 10. A 10th-place vote can influence the outcome of an election. You must fill in all 10 places on your ballot.

Keep in mind that all players are eligible for MVP, and that includes pitchers and designated hitters.

Only regular-season performances are to be taken into consideration.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Nov 19, 2008 9:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand how a guy who didn't play the whole year wins the NL MVP over another guy who is the RBI and HR leader for the World Champs.

As great as Pujols is I don’t understand how this happens.

Of course I also understand how the best fielding 2B doesn’t get a gold glove for multiple years. Ellis should have had that.

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Nov 18, 2008 5:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

It's simple:

Howard stricks out too much and Ellis hits for too low a batting average!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 18, 2008 5:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

When you consider that Howard wasn’t even among the top 25 National League players in terms of Wins Above Replacement it’s pretty easy to see why they didn’t pick him.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 18, 2008 6:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure they used that stat to decide...

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Nov 18, 2008 7:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Clearly not

But it’s as good a response as there is to Eastbayjim not understanding how they picked Pujols.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 18, 2008 8:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

some voters tend to value defense and base-running as well

and those realized Howard is terrible at both, while Pujols is very good at both. Not to mention that Pujols got on base over 46% of the time, compared to Howard’s 34%……big difference there. But if you want to go strictly off power numbers, Howard is probably the guy.

Neyer had a pretty interesting take in his chat today:

And while it might make sense to give a player a little extra credit for surging in September, I have an opposite take . . . If you play terribly in the spring (as Howard did) you might actually discourage your team from making moves to promote its postseason chances. That is, on a macro level, first-half performance might be more valuable than second-half performance.

so there’s that.

"This is Rickey, calling on behalf of Rickey."

by scatterbrian on Nov 18, 2008 6:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This is how.

Pujols had a substantially better season than Howard in just about every regard. Howard was given the MVP award in 2006 when Pujols had the superior season AND played for the world champs. That’s the one that should leave you scratching your head. (Not that playing for the world champs should have anything to do with it.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Nov 19, 2008 10:11 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

Wins will NEVER lose value

They are grit and diamonds and gold and the fire in the belly of a hungry young player.

"I'll make a list for the record. These people should be trusted: Sal, andeux, rfloh, danny...and no one else. Certainly not me. And even extra super-certainly not NSJ."

by notsellingjeans on Nov 18, 2008 5:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

They are LIKE grit

as if editing the joke helped make it funnier.

"I'll make a list for the record. These people should be trusted: Sal, andeux, rfloh, danny...and no one else. Certainly not me. And even extra super-certainly not NSJ."

by notsellingjeans on Nov 18, 2008 5:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It turned a metaphor into a simile

That’s pretty impressive right there.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 18, 2008 5:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I read that as "it turned a metaphor into a "smile"'

Which it kinda did.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Nov 18, 2008 6:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

it turned that metaphor into a valley girl

which is, like, totally impressive too.

Save Rajai Davis

by oakinboston on Nov 18, 2008 6:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Lie still, little bottle.

"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL

by oblique on Nov 18, 2008 11:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Omg! Are you all talking about Metamucil?

I heard thats really good for your vowels.

by lynnzgal on Nov 19, 2008 12:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not if you're inconsenant

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 19, 2008 7:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I like it better as a metaphor

au contra ire

by JediLeroy on Nov 18, 2008 9:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Pujols was pretty valuable.

The Cards would never have made any run for it at all without Pujols.

by IM4Oakgal on Nov 18, 2008 5:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Pujols is the best hitter in baseball, period.

He had a monster of a year while playing with a hurt elbow (shoulder?), and with less protection. About .360/.460/.650 is ridiculous. Blah blah blah protection doesn’t exist but Howard gets more oppurtunities with runners on base, more pitches to see and strikes out like he and Cust are in some kind of bet.

Albert Pujols had more RBIs (116) than at bats with RISP (115). Pujols also plays a GG caliber first base, while Howard…well…plays first base.

by NateHST on Nov 18, 2008 5:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

As opposed to Giambi and Mike Jacobs

both of whom merely “shuffle and stand nearby” first base.

"I'll make a list for the record. These people should be trusted: Sal, andeux, rfloh, danny...and no one else. Certainly not me. And even extra super-certainly not NSJ."

by notsellingjeans on Nov 18, 2008 6:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Still waiting for the Mauer for MVP nonsense.

Pedroia deserved that award. I am glad that he won it.

by IM4Oakgal on Nov 18, 2008 6:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Mauer for MVP!

It could still happen.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 18, 2008 6:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Joe Mauer is so good at baseball it's ridiculous

Was quite surprised/pleased to see him crack the top 5 in the vote, but still lol at Arod and Sizemore at 8 and 10.

Can't get enough of the Oakland A's or Golden State Warriors? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's and Golden Stat Hoops

by iamawesomer on Nov 18, 2008 6:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Joe Mauer is very good at sports

He was also heavily recruited to play quarterback at Florida State, I believe.

"I'll make a list for the record. These people should be trusted: Sal, andeux, rfloh, danny...and no one else. Certainly not me. And even extra super-certainly not NSJ."

by notsellingjeans on Nov 18, 2008 6:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree.

The media loves Boston too damn much for this to even jokingly be considered fair. He’s good, yeah, but everybody has an orgasm every time he does something that every baseball good baseball player does (like dive for balls, take the extra base, swing hard).

Mourneau and Mauer took the Twins to a one game playoff with practically nobody around them, while Pedroia had Youk and Manny and Bay and Lowell and Ortiz and Ellsbury and a pitching staff of Beckett, Matsuzaka and Lester.

Pedroia was not the most valuable player to his team, or in the league, but hey, he’s little and plays hard so he deserves it? I don’t get it.

by NateHST on Nov 18, 2008 6:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Mass orgams are pretty valuable.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 18, 2008 7:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you an orgam donor?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 18, 2008 7:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll take one, or two!

by lynnzgal on Nov 19, 2008 12:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

orgam or origami?

I also have a pretty high shame threshold. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Nov 20, 2008 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Why is it nonsense?

Mauer was better at the plate than Pedroia was and played a harder defensive position.

by mikev on Nov 18, 2008 7:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Other than that, though,

why is Mauer better?

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 18, 2008 8:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sideburns.

I mean, duh.

by mikev on Nov 18, 2008 8:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I myself sport some joe maueresque sideburns

they pretty much kick ass.

Can't get enough of the Oakland A's or Golden State Warriors? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's and Golden Stat Hoops

by iamawesomer on Nov 19, 2008 12:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Nonsense was a little strong...

But Mauer may not even have been the best player on his OWN team…as for Pedroia how many guys have done what he did at 2nd? Nellie Fox was a long ways back.
He had a better Aug and Sept than Mauer did too. I feel that the hatred of all things RedSox on this site often seeps into the judgement of folks on here.

by IM4Oakgal on Nov 18, 2008 8:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Now now, be fair, IM4Oakgal -

It’s our hatred of short people, and that’s totally rational. I mean, have you met salb918?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 18, 2008 8:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey! 5' 9" is average height!

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 18, 2008 9:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You could make the same argument about Pedroia / Youkilis

It still comes down to which was the better player (as both teams were competitive).

Mauer is a better hitter and a better defensive player at a harder position.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 18, 2008 9:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's got nothing to do with my hatred of all things Boston.

Because, frankly, A-Rod was also more deserving than Pedroia.

But, I’ll present it to you this way: If Mark Ellis had put up Pedroia’s offensive numbers this year, would he have won the MVP?

by mikev on Nov 18, 2008 11:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The A's team wasn't a contending team for the playoffs.

Pedroia led his team to the playoffs after Manny left even batting cleanup at one point. Just an outstanding season for a guy who played second. He also was great in the field. Nothing but praise for the guy.

by IM4Oakgal on Nov 19, 2008 10:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Basing an individual award on team success makes no sense at all.

Oh, and Manny was replaced with Jason Bay. Bay hit .293/.370/.527 for Boston. It’s not like Boston lost Pujols and replaced him with Neifi Perez, or something. They replaced a legendary hitter with one who’s merely an all star.

It’s a little ironic that you pointed out that Mauer may not have been the best player on his own team (he was, BTW) when the same is true for Boston.

by mikev on Nov 19, 2008 11:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Mauer WAS the best player on his own team...by far

He was their best hitter, playing likely the best defense at the toughest position as opposed to playing mediocre at the easiest position.

Can't get enough of the Oakland A's or Golden State Warriors? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's and Golden Stat Hoops

by iamawesomer on Nov 19, 2008 1:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Suzuki says what?

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 19, 2008 10:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Suzuki says "Joe Mauer is better than me defensively" ?

Can't get enough of the Oakland A's or Golden State Warriors? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's and Golden Stat Hoops

by iamawesomer on Nov 19, 2008 12:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm pretty sure I remember some metrics putting Suzuki at #1

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 19, 2008 12:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If you want to talk false precision, trying to argue whether a catcher is #1 or #2 is definitely in that category

It’s all we can do at this point to say someone is in the top 5.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 19, 2008 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Defensively, I mean

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 19, 2008 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh I agree

My homerism, however, requires grasping at every straw suggesting that some one on our team is the best at something.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 19, 2008 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Bobby Crosby is the best at swinging and missing at outside sliders

au contra ire

by JediLeroy on Nov 19, 2008 4:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't even think Crosby is good at it

He just does it a lot.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 19, 2008 7:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Practice makes perfect.

by green star oakland on Nov 19, 2008 8:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

and apparently he didn’t get enough practice last winter in his newly-installed home batting cage

"This is Rickey, calling on behalf of Rickey."

by scatterbrian on Nov 19, 2008 8:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Mauer is not the Twins best player?

Santana isn’t playing there anymore, and Nathan is good, but he is just a reliever.

by jahs34 on Nov 19, 2008 7:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Why would it be nonsense?

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Nov 19, 2008 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

BBWAA needs to realize

that the GGs are a defensive award, and not an offense award.

Nate McClouth belongs in a corner OF spot, and Michael Young isn’t really a defensive wiz.

And give Ellis a goddamn GG.

I know that's a pisser, baby.

by Blicks on Nov 18, 2008 7:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

The managers and coaches vote for GG.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 18, 2008 7:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

There needs to be a panel

of stat heads who decide on the awards. That’s what needs to happen but has as much chance of occuring as Nico acquiring long-sought pony.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Nov 18, 2008 8:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That basically does happen with IBA

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 18, 2008 8:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

IBA gives me a pony?

Sweet!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 18, 2008 9:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

See. I forget things. -_-

I know that's a pisser, baby.

by Blicks on Nov 18, 2008 10:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't get McClouth as a Gold Glove

Fielding Bible had him as the worst CF in MLB. They rank him as -40. The next player comes in at -26. How can one defensive evaluation have him as the worst and another rank him as the best? Does anyone else have other access to defensive rankings that would support either the Fielding Bible result or the opinion of the managers and coaches who voted?

by Hang Man on Nov 18, 2008 8:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Dial had him at -10.5 runs compared to average. Tango's fan scouting report had him 49 in 2007

where 50 is average.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 18, 2008 8:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I believe to convert plays to runs you divide by two point something so -40 is around

17-18 runs below average. It looks like the managers and coaches just don’t agree with the numbers.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 18, 2008 8:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And to convert McClouth's fielding into something we can understand you divide by zero

au contra ire

by JediLeroy on Nov 18, 2008 9:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And then multiply by GRIT

by DiegoSegui on Nov 18, 2008 10:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What is "undefined" x "GRIT"?

Intangible?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 19, 2008 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

as ridiculous as this argument is, McClouth had a slew of web gems this season

he’s good at eventually getting to a ball, although not by the most direct route. I just remember seeing him crack the baseball tonight highlights on a consistent basis, on balls that guys like Sizemore or Upton would have no problem with.

by stranahanahan on Nov 18, 2008 11:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

and, sadly, that's probably how a lot of GMs and fellow players vote in GG's

They all have tons of downtime during the day = they all watch SportsCenter, and they catch top plays.

"I'll make a list for the record. These people should be trusted: Sal, andeux, rfloh, danny...and no one else. Certainly not me. And even extra super-certainly not NSJ."

by notsellingjeans on Nov 19, 2008 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

"GMs" should read "coaches/managers"

"I'll make a list for the record. These people should be trusted: Sal, andeux, rfloh, danny...and no one else. Certainly not me. And even extra super-certainly not NSJ."

by notsellingjeans on Nov 19, 2008 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

if you havent noticed….
the numbers in their batting columns play a big role in the gold glove awards

by Wreckonized on Nov 18, 2008 8:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Which may be the single most ridiculous aspect of

any award in any sport. It’s like awarding the ribbon for the 100-yard dash to the 3rd place finisher because he hit more free throws.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 18, 2008 9:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

But it is very much like human beings think wrt other subjective items

Bob is a nice guy and has been around for six years. I like him. Let’s make him head of accounting.

Rolf’s father was mayor for 16 years and I liked him. Rolf looks just like him. I’m voting for him for mayor.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 18, 2008 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Rolf sounds like rofl

He’s got my vote!

by GoA's on Nov 19, 2008 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

"Roll on the laughing floor!"

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 19, 2008 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This is for people who don't, you know, think.

by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 19, 2008 10:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Since that describes most of the electorate...

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 19, 2008 12:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

There was a measure on the ballot to prevent that,

but I voted against it because the media told me to.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 19, 2008 7:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Rowlf for Mayor!

au contra ire

by JediLeroy on Nov 19, 2008 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Pujols is so much better than everyone else it is not even funny.

It would have been pathetic if Ryan Howard won the award over Pujols. As people have mentioned, Pujols plays extremely valuable defense in addition to his ridiculous offense. If he was on the Phillies instead of Howard one can only imagine such an RBI total that he would amass.

The other thing that strikes me about Pujols over Howard. Pujols is incredibly consistent. There are probably no more than 2-3 pitchers that “have his number,” and even then its probably small sample size. Howard’s immense power certainly delivers the numbers over the long haul, but pretty simply, even if Howard was the same aggregate quality of Pujols (which he isnt), Pujols consistency definitely adds to his value. What a beautiful swing he has.

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Nov 18, 2008 11:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Pujols is also a class act and an absolute freak of nature

First of all, no one ever says anything bad about the guy. He’s a faith oriented family man who gives and gives to the community. You hear all kinds of stories about the guy doing something incredible, and he never does it for the publicity. He is clearly against performance enhancing drugs (let’s not forget about the fact that that has to play into some of the writer’s minds when voting), and while this doesn’t mean he’s clean in an age where every player is questioned about doping after putting up monster numbers, he’s about as close to angelic as it gets.
Secondly, need I remind you that when he got injured this year? How long did they say he was going to be out? 6-8 weeks. and how long until Pujols was back? 3.
Ridiculous. And it was back in 3 weeks and he was raking, no extended rehab assignment, no slump.
Absolutely 100% Pujols is not only the best player in the game right now, but he’s also quite possibly the best person in the game today

by stranahanahan on Nov 19, 2008 12:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The guy is insane.

But it’s only because 99% of his body is composed of pure awesome.

by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 19, 2008 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The other 1%?

Grit.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 19, 2008 10:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The other 1% is the impermeable membrane that holds the awesome in.

"I'm going to take a camera crew and march into Billy Beane's office and demand to know why instituting his newfangled cost-saving measures means that the run manufacturing plant had to get shut down." FJM

by Elvez on Nov 19, 2008 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought the other 1% was "essence of Jeter"

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 19, 2008 7:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

no, see, you're all wrong

Pujols is comprised of 110% awesome; he is covered by a semi-permeable membrane that keeps most of his awesome in, but allows some of it to escape and rub off on his teammates, thereby making them each just that much better merely by standing alongside Pujols.

I also have a pretty high shame threshold. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Nov 20, 2008 3:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

which explains Ludwick's season....

"This is Rickey, calling on behalf of Rickey."

by scatterbrian on Nov 21, 2008 9:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So you're saying he's pretty good?

There’s actually a story behind that, in addition to my quite-probable futile attempt to be cute.

When my brothers get together for a game and a great player does something, well, great, one of us will turn to the rest and say, “(Great player) is pretty good”.

It’s silly, yeah, but son mis hermanos.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Nov 19, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

the 3 votes for Volquez tells you a little something about some of those people voting...

if they are that dumb as to not realize that Volquez didn’t qualify as a rookie, they are clearly not doing their research. there really is no excuse for that, these are supposed to be experts on the game, and 3 of them vote for someone ineligible.
Ridiculous and completely unacceptable

by stranahanahan on Nov 18, 2008 11:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

the current system just doesn't really do the trick for me...

pretty much every year there is debate in the NBA, NFL, NL, and AL about the merits of leading your team to the playoffs/how much your team would miss you vs individual statistical excellence. not all the voters are aligned in their criteria, so sometimes you get silly results.

how about creating an award for the Most Outstanding Player (MOP) in addition to the MVP? then we might be able to come up with clear criteria, ie:

MOP – player whose individual performance on the court/gridiron/diamond clearly stands out from the rest of the players in his league

MVP – player who was most valuable to his team’s success

plus, it gives a chance to name the MOP after somebody (the Rickey Henderson Award for the AL MOP…) and come up with cool new trophy designs.

by jlanning17 on Nov 19, 2008 8:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

How about ignoring how the TEAM did when giving out awards for INDIVIDUAL players?

by mikev on Nov 19, 2008 8:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

isn't it a team sport?

stats are great and all, but don’t we also judge players based on championships? a guy who mashes during 10-1 games and disappears during close ones is looked at differently than somebody who has a habit of knocking in game-tying or -winning RBI.

baseball is not golf or tennis…

by jlanning17 on Nov 19, 2008 11:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No such player exists

I defy you to find one.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 19, 2008 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

player A has purple lips

and is hated by guy ritchie. actually, maybe guy gave him a big thank you…

player B has diastema and could never be president of the USA

by jlanning17 on Nov 19, 2008 11:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe investigate claims before putting them forward as facts

Especially when they’re based on nothing more than hyperventilation from the NY media.

The worst part is I knew you’d bring up A-Rod and that I’d end up here. Please bring me any stats not involving NY Post headlines to substantiate your claim (or, when you fail to do so, shut up)

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 19, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i don't read the ny post or any local (nyc) sports media

i don’t have time or enough interest to dig up situational stats. i’ll gladly read them if you post them. maybe investigate my comment before accusing me of claiming to be putting forward facts. i expressed an opinion (aren’t the awards based on voter opinion rather than an all-encompassing stat?) respectfully and objectively, other than the part about naming an award after rickey. maybe i’m misinterpreting, but now i’m just getting a bunch of confrontational attitude rather than contribution to a discussion, which is what i thought the initial post was about (contribution to a discussion). i guess i’m just a terrible poser of a fan who doesn’t know anything about baseball because i don’t average 9+ comments per day (+1 i used a stat!). i guess i’ll have to beef up my comments or pay homage to the fansite royalty before i comment anymore. that makes sense…

i live with a yankee fan in the nyc area, so i watch a lot of yankee games on YES. the roommate and i both call a-rod gidp. due to his hatred of anything red sox, my roommate paces nervously whenever papi is up late in a close game against any team because papi seems to have a history of getting timely hits, sabermetrics be damned.

i wasn’t thinking of gidp and papi when i wrote the comment about the blowout performer vs the clutch hitter, but you obviously had at least the former in mind. the worst part is you could have just brought him up directly if you wanted to talk about gidp so much… living in the middle of the red sox-yankees war zone made that comparison obvious. again, apologies for offending the AN hierarchy with my foolishness.

actually the worst part is that once again somebody on here is getting hot and bothered and letting out some passive/aggressive energy on AN INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD instead of just having a discussion. not everybody can sit around commenting away all day. i read the posts that look interesting when i get a break from work and toss in an opinion once in a while. i guess somebody should explain the “rules” of AN to me. seriously, somebody let me know.

thanks also for sending the sub-thread off-topic by attacking me. good work! +100!

so back to the topic of the original post and my comment… almost every year there is a case of outstanding stats on a crap team vs good stats and/or clutch play on a good team. both should be rewarded. somebody who hits 60 HR (whoops, i used a statistical category acronym with only 2 letters! ah!) on a crap team still had an outstanding season. just like somebody who had 30-35 HR for a playoff team who always seemed to get on base after the 6th inning, and/or do something productive with runners on base, and/or work the pitch count every time he was at the plate was very valuable to his team. basketball is a better sport for this debate, but it applies in baseball. my OPINION is that we should reward both types of excellent play by creating a second award and more precisely defining the criteria. it seems silly to have half the voters voting based strictly on the numbers on the back of a guy’s baseball card and then the other half voting based on who put their team over the hump. i know this isn’t a completely thorough suggestion and there are some holes in it. GoA’s brought up WAR. that sounds like it would be a good quantitative stat to use in judging an MVP.

by jlanning17 on Nov 19, 2008 12:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It looks like one of us is getting "hot and bothered"

And perhaps an investigation into your beliefs about “gidp” would educate you and allow you (and your friend) to appreciate his team better.

What you’ll learn is that “Clutch Hitting” <a href=“http://www.geocities.com/”mailto:cyrilmorong@sbcglobal.net">cyrilmorong@sbcglobal.net/CramerClutch2.htm" >probably does not exist.

You’ll also learn that A-Rod, like other hitters (Say, Ortiz), has wildly fluctuating “Clutch” numbers. In fact, in 2006 and 2007 A-Rod was significantly more “clutch” based on THT’s measure.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 19, 2008 12:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Working link to the Cramer Study

http://tinyurl.com/5lg7xq

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 19, 2008 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ok terrific

like i said, gidp vs papi was an off the cuff comparison. i also already said i don’t have the time or interest to do the research. looking at the clutch stats, gidp was negative 3/5 years and papi was negative 1/5 years. both have large deviations year to year, but overall papi wins. that said, there’s no way i’m getting into a stat war with anybody on this site because i can’t possibly compete. knowing baseball stats inside and out is not one of my passions. i concede. you win. gidp is not a choker and papi is just as good as the next guy in crunch time. quote me.

you really seem to be interested in talking about gidp. you baited me into bringing him up, stated that that was your intent, and now you’ve gone back to him again even though i tried to get back on topic. should we start a different thread to debate who is the most clutch hitter in baseball? maybe just to debate gidp’s clutchness? i’m pretty sure this started as a discussion about individual awards. i quote from the original post: “There we have it. Did they get it right? Who was omitted? What would you chage? Discuss.” so maybe there could be a clutch hitter award. it could be based on mr. cramer’s work and awarded on a purely quantitative basis like the batting title, or it could be voted on. what do you think?

so back to my original comment: i think there should be 2 awards. i already explained them. do you agree or disagree? i am interested in your opinion (as well as everybody else’s) so go ahead and post it, or if (borrowing from you again) you fail to do so, shut up.

by jlanning17 on Nov 19, 2008 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I like to be "ahead of the curve,"

so I’m going to shut up first and discuss this second (meaning, of course, that I will never get to discussing it).

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 19, 2008 7:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If we judged players based on championships...

Ray Fosse (two rings) was a great player while Ted Williams, Ernie Banks, and Barry Bonds (no rings) were bums.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Nov 19, 2008 12:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

read my first comment

i said there should be a 2nd award to differentiate between individual dominance and contribution to team success. then i said team success is worth rewarding. i never said 1 was better than the other.

by jlanning17 on Nov 19, 2008 12:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I did

We already have those awards. They’re the MVP for the season and the MVP for the World Series.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Nov 19, 2008 12:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

doesn't the MVP for the WS only take the WS into consideration?

i was suggesting 2 awards based on a season’s performance, not 1 award based a season’s performance and another award based on 4-7 games that only ~1/15 of MLB players are eligible for. here’s an adjusted description:

MVP – player who was most valuable to his team’s success over the course of the season

by jlanning17 on Nov 19, 2008 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That is correct

I don’t see the need for two regular season awards. One award to identify the top player in the league is sufficient. I don’t see a need to reward a lesser player for his contributions to a better team.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Nov 20, 2008 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Time to start a really, really long debate.

What is ‘valuable’?

by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 19, 2008 10:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Cash money

In large amounts.

I think that settles it.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 19, 2008 10:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd take precious metals over cash

au contra ire

by JediLeroy on Nov 19, 2008 4:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Just like I started those high school essays...

According to Merriam-Webster, valuable is having desirable or esteemed characteristics or qualities, or of great use or service. This is where the confusion comes in. Is the award:

Most Desirable Qualities Player.?
Most Esteemed Characteristics Player?
Most Useful Player?
Most Of Great Service Player?

Since the object of the award is to reward performance, the first part of the definition is out. You can be characteristically good but still have an awful season. So we’re left with who is most useful/of greatest service. At the end of the day, the purpose of every player is to increase win total. So, we must calculate who added the most wins to their team. This would of course lead us to wins above replacement. Congrats then to Lance Berkman and Joe Mauer?

Berkman sounds wrong, but WAR rewards hits that occurred in clutch situations. The system doesn’t reward the best overall hitter. So the question you really have to ask yourself:

Is it better to be lucky or good?

IMO, WAR should be the baseline stat to judge MVP seasons by, with discretion used for players who were overly lucky. So the obvious superiority of Pujols this year would win the day over Berkman, while in a tight race, such this year’s Pedroia v. Sizemore v. Mauer, WAR should decide the day.

by GoA's on Nov 19, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

My first post here....

I’ve been reading AN for months now and I really enjoy it. I finally joined SBN over a month ago after reading all I could on the blogs about the teams I like. This is one of the better blogs on SBN in my opinion for you all have some great, insightful and deep conversations while having fun, unlike a couple of other blogs which are more like a war zone than a blog.

On to my post. While I am happy Pujols won NL MVP it really doesn’t mean all that much to me. I look at it and see this and the other awards being given out by so-called “experts” of the game chosen because they write about the game. These so-called experts were declaring the Cubs World Champions in March. They doomed the Rays to another last place. These same ppl told me in 2006 that the Tigers would kill the Cardinals in the Series. I could go on and on….

For me, there is only on award that counts for anything. The Phillies won that back in October. That is the prize I want my team to win! The rest of them are just based on opinions…… well everyone has a opinion and something else too….. I look forward to reading more here and hopefully participating a bit too if that is cool with everybody.

Hope this contributes to the conversation and I wish the A’s all the best for next year.

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.-Rogers Hornsby

by thegashousegang on Nov 19, 2008 10:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Welcome!

And thank you!

"I know they're the defending World Champs, but they are the whiniest team in baseball" -Rays announcers

by baseballgirl on Nov 19, 2008 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

thanks! :)

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.-Rogers Hornsby

by thegashousegang on Nov 19, 2008 6:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Welcome, and nice user name.

And do you happen to know any sheep with loose morals?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 19, 2008 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I know some with loose molars.

Does that count?

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Nov 20, 2008 6:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

thanks for the welcome,

and the nice comment about the user name. :) As for sheep, nope, but there is a farm down the road with a bunch of cows, chickens and horses. Don’t know about their morals though,… although there was mention in the paper about some guy and some funny business going on….. Can send the phone number if you like…. LOL

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.-Rogers Hornsby

by thegashousegang on Nov 20, 2008 6:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey - can we please keep my phone number private?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 20, 2008 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Can we please keep my privates numbered?

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Nov 20, 2008 8:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure. I can count to 1/8

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 20, 2008 9:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm #2

Oh, sorry—thought that “v” was an “m.”

I also have a pretty high shame threshold. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Nov 21, 2008 11:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

LMAO....

like I said this is one of the better blogs, and perhaps the funniest too! :)

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.-Rogers Hornsby

by thegashousegang on Nov 21, 2008 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Gold Gloves

I’m cool with most of the awards. Although I admit to not knowing exactly who should be getting Gold Gloves this year, I have this nagging feeling that Greg Maddux got his 18th Gold Glove because he had won 17 times before — which is the biggest problem I have with how Gold Gloves are awarded.

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Nov 19, 2008 5:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I think Rafael Palmeiro won it at 1B

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 19, 2008 7:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He probably got a couple votes this year.

by mikev on Nov 19, 2008 11:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of awards

This Year in baseball awards are open for fan voting.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/awards/y2008/tyib/index.jsp

If AN can post 2500 comments about a trade can’t we vote in Ziegler as rookie or setup man of the year? Hannahan is also up for play of the year for the catch he made while flipping into the dugout. There are also a couple former A’s nominated; Matt Stairs pinch hit go-ahead 2 run HR for postseason moment, Rich Harden for starter, Johny Damon for going 6 for 6 is up for performance as well as oddity for the play where a ball landed on top of the fence and stayed there.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Nov 20, 2008 12:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Pedroia = Jeter (?)

I have the feeling he is on his way to replacing Jeter as the media’s love child and probably for the next 5+ years or until he declines as Jeter recently has. Still lacks the sweet jump throw though.

I mean hes good and all and I won’t argue that he shouldn’t of been MVP but I have a feeling my current indifference toward him will turn into major annoyance as it has been with Jeter.

Gas to Chicago- $23.87 A's/White Sox Tix- $28 Watching the A's whipping the Sox in July 05'- Priceless

by WiscoFan on Nov 20, 2008 11:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs