Athletics Nation: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:

Around SBN: Want to help build SB Nation? We're hiring! Bar-right-arrows

A's, Giants battling for Furcal

Tiny by JPShark on

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081117&content_id=3681955&vkey=news_sf&fext=.jsp&c_id=sf&partnerId=rss_sf

MLBtraderumors.com posted this article from Michael Urban, of all people. It scares me a little to think that the Giants are going hard after him considering their history of FA signings. However $10mil a season is much more attractive then the $15mil a season we were looking at before. How about a 3/35 with an option for 2012? Also, Urban didn't really say how the A's were involved more-so then any of the other 4 supposed suitors so i'm not sure what to make of this. Either way this is the first we've heard about Furcal and the A's in nearly a week so it's a little action to get us through our monday.

0 recs | Comment 297 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

4 suitors

I love how the supposed 10 suitors in the early going have now been whittled down to four… and furcal’s likely salary is coming down with it

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Nov 18, 2008 1:21 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

something tells me the giants won't sign him...

Sabean or someone (I don’t remember who, but it’s on their site) said that the Giants can spend up to $20 mil this offseason. If they only have that much to spend and they just signed Affeldt, then Furcal would most likely be the end of their free agent signings. I just don’t see the Giants spending that much on one player when they still need to shore up some other holes.

by stranahanahan on Nov 17, 2008 11:55 AM PST   0 recs

Giants Sign Jeremy Affeldt

Giants Sign Jeremy Affeldt
By Tim Dierkes [November 17 at 1:46pm CST]

According to Andrew Baggarly of the San Jose Mercury News, the Giants signed lefty reliever Jeremy Affeldt to a two-year deal. He was a Type B free agent, so the Reds will receive a sandwich pick for him in the June draft.

I’m surprised Affeldt didn’t pursue a closing job; ESPN’s Keith Law ranked him as the second best reliever on the market (ahead of Francisco Rodriguez and Brian Fuentes).

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 17, 2008 11:57 AM PST   0 recs

yeah I don't understand the Affeldt drum he's banging

He’s never been very good – even last year he wasn’t particularly good. Looks like a classic random good year by a crappy reliever. There’s been about 14 billion of those over history of baseball and the next year they go back to being who they’ve always been.

by jdr on Nov 18, 2008 8:52 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

i dont' really get the hype surrounding affeldt...

not that its the most stat savvy statistic, but his career whip isn’t all that good, esp for a reliever. he’s had more bad years than good years, and other than this year he tends to walk a lot of people.

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 17, 2008 10:02 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

FIP and tRA in the mid-3s last year

and his K rate improved a lot, as did the juice on his fastball, last season.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2008 10:03 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Obviously Sabean doesn't read statcorner

And there’s no reason why he and Ned Colletti should ever start.

I know that's a pisser, baby.

by Blicks on Nov 18, 2008 6:09 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I imagine he has a team of people who compile much more

complex stats than statcorner. Whether he uses them is another question.

by OldhamA on Nov 18, 2008 7:11 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Actually, I doubt it

There are still a lot of front offices that don’t do any real heavy statistical research. I’m pretty sure the Giants are one of them.

by thejd44 on Nov 19, 2008 1:49 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

But I'm pretty sure Sabean doesn't know what FIP or tRA are

Do you give a GM credit for making a smart move for dumb reasons? (I like to call that the Kenny WIlliams Effect)

by thejd44 on Nov 18, 2008 12:19 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I try to avoid giving Sabean credit for anything

Even a blind squirrel finds the occasional Rich Aurilia.

Unfortunately, he then often drops that Aurilia and comes back years later to discover that it has rotted and turned into a lame platoon corner infielder.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 18, 2008 1:04 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Do you mean lame as in bad

Or lame as in an actual gimp?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 18, 2008 1:08 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

The first.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 18, 2008 8:36 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Meh

Not much we didn’t know in this article. All the article did was talk to Furcal’s agent and raise Furcal’s price tag. What’s the agent gonna say if the Giants or A’s weren’t really that interested? Of course they’re both hard after Furcal! They’re rivals competing against each other! They should overbid.

I will say this. If it becomes a bidding war between the A’s and Giants, the A’s will lose.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Nov 17, 2008 12:24 PM PST   0 recs

The A's versus the GIANTS?!?!?

Seriously. When your primary competition is Brian Sabean, that means you need to GTFO of negotiations and get as far away from that FA as possible ASAP. Brian Sabean’s stupid/fireable offense contracts don’t outweigh the Affeldt signing, which is probably an exception.

If it goes beyond 2 years, the A’s need to get the hell out.

Exception for Affeldt.

I know that's a pisser, baby.

by Blicks on Nov 17, 2008 12:43 PM PST   0 recs

And plan B?

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 17, 2008 1:37 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

none of the FA's

make a trade

i’m willing to take an mlb ready SS no quite ready at the very least

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 17, 2008 1:38 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Ugh. I hate hate hate trading good prospects. I'm still sore from the Holliday deal...

Can’t we do the spaghetti test, like third base? Then spring for Johnson and maybe even a bullpen arm.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 17, 2008 2:00 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I am still sore from the deal.

Call me a pisswad, I really don’t care. I don’t want to see any more prospects traded this offseason. If Cahill/Anderson get traded, I will be sick.

What’s the spaghetti test, btw?

I know that's a pisser, baby.

by Blicks on Nov 17, 2008 3:03 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Throw at wall, see if it sticks

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2008 3:14 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I call that test by another name

Did you overpay for those eggs? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Nov 17, 2008 3:30 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

The mother-in-law test?

"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox

by Gallagher's Watermelons on Nov 18, 2008 4:45 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Throw Petit, Pennington, Everett, etc. at the wall and see who sticks.

Cabrera and Renteria depress me more than Crosby.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 17, 2008 3:15 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

... and my other name fits that cohort very well

Did you overpay for those eggs? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Nov 17, 2008 3:30 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

if CarGon turns into the next Beltran, i'll eat my hat

I would trade for a proven and good SS, hands down. Good SS’ do NOT grow on trees, unlike many prospects who are more likely to flameout than produce in the bigs. Of course, i really dont want to give up anderson or cahill, but i’ll give up mazzaro or any of our other pitchers, as long as the trade is equal/we win.

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 17, 2008 3:07 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

If AN ever stops offering to eat hats

I’ll eat my hat.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 17, 2008 3:20 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I'll eat my pipe.

I know that's a pisser, baby.

by Blicks on Nov 17, 2008 3:38 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

If CarGon turns into the next Beltran I'll eat my cell phone

When Beltran was 22 he was already in the majors being good, and he always showed good patience in the minors. FWIW I take the Garrett Anderson comp when it come to the who-might-he-turn-into game.

by jdr on Nov 17, 2008 4:34 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Same here - I think G. Anderson's the best comp

I happen to think Anderson has had a very good career, so it’s a compliment to CarGon.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 17, 2008 5:56 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

While I'm not the biggest fan of his,

if the A’s really just traded away the first 6 years of Garret Anderson’s career (plus additional assets) for one year of Matt Holliday, it was a moronic trade.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2008 6:05 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Unless they manage to extend Holliday,

which we really won’t know until later.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 17, 2008 6:29 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Perhaps, if you can demonstrate to me beyond any plausible doubt

that Holliday signed with the A’s because of playing here for a year and would NOT have signed with them otherwise…

Elsewise, I’m sticking with “moronic.”

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2008 8:39 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I don't think that will ever be knowable

But if they sign him to an extension, it will appear that Beane felt the A’s could greatly improve/contend with Holliday in 2009 and felt he could sign Holliday after 2009 to anchor the lineup in the “Cahill/Anderson years” – and he will have been right on both counts. That’s good enough for me.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 17, 2008 8:59 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

The more I think about it...

… the less I think the A’s ever really intended to sign Holliday long-term. And that makes me sad.

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Nov 17, 2008 9:12 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I don't see why wouldn't at least

kick the tires and see how high the market goes. Like Furcal, the price could get high enough that it’s wiser to retreat, but like Furcal why not stay seriously in the running as long as the price/years range remains reasonable?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 17, 2008 9:20 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

a question on this topic

what happens to Holliday’s Type A status if he has a terrible year and/or gets injured this upcoming year? where does that leave him? I think part of the thinking in this trade is that in the WORST case scenario, he walks and we get two draft picks to replace Cargon and whatever else we lost…but if we lose those picks on account of injury/ineffectiveness…we are screwed…but then again, holliday might be more willing to resign a la mark ellis

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 17, 2008 9:29 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

It depends on how bad he is, and on how much time he misses

The rule of thumb is: DL time good, “playing through it” and sucking bad. DL time is good because there’s an injury adjustment that gives players “constructive HR” (and RBI, and any other counting stat) for the time they missed.

Yes, that makes no sense, since even a bad version of Holliday is likely better than any of the alternatives. But it’s how they do it at Elias.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2008 9:45 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Thanks, as always PT.

so basically our Trainer’s job is to make sure players either stay on the field completely healthy, or break their leg to keep them off it completely…there is no middle ground

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 17, 2008 10:04 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Only for players 1 or 2 years from free agency...

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2008 10:04 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Forget the compensation

Can we get the A’s trainers to keep Bobby Crosby off the field just because?

by thejd44 on Nov 18, 2008 12:20 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

With the A's training staff

it wouldn’t surprise me if Crosby went in for a routine physical and came out with a broken leg (but, of course, was day to day for 3 months).

by thejd44 on Nov 19, 2008 1:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I'd be interested in knowing when a Boras client...

signed with the same team he played for before becoming a FA. Has it ever happened? Perhaps it has… I’m just asking. Because I don’t think Beane has any chance of extending Holliday.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Nov 17, 2008 10:45 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Yes

Andruw Jones. May be more, may not be…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2008 10:54 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I'm talking out of the side of my neck, here

But I think I heard something about Jones going over Boras’s head to get that deal done. I don’t know what I have to Google to substantiate that, but has anyone heard something similar.

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Nov 18, 2008 10:07 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

He stated without the proper question mark.

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Nov 18, 2008 10:07 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Kyle Lohse just re-upped with the Cardinals

And he did it well before the start of FA. He told Boras he wanted to stay in St. Louis and to get a deal done. Few days later Lohse signs a 4 year/$41 million contract.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 17, 2008 11:03 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

it's one thing if the player calls the shots...

I doubt Holliday will override Boras. Because he falls in love with playing in Oakland? Doubt it.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Nov 17, 2008 11:05 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

So what you're saying is...

you don’t think Matt Holliday has the balls to tell Scott Boras he wants to stay in Oakland.

Know what… I’m going to call you out on this one. Please make your case that Holliday is a wimp that Boras can bully around and send him to whatever goddamn team the super agent feels like sending him to.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 17, 2008 11:26 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

here's my case...

he hired Boras for the same reason Zito did. To get him the most fucking money he can get. It’s not a matter of balls. The guy is gonna sign with the team that offers the most money. It won’t be Oakland. It’s not personal, it’s business. Okay, I’ve watched too much Godfarther marathon, but… Holliday will never resign with the A’s.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Nov 17, 2008 11:54 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Complete and total bullshit

You asked if any Boras client had re-signed with his original team before becoming a FA. You were dead set on saying Holliday would never sign an extension with the A’s.

Then two people tell you about two different Boras clients who did EXACTLY what you thought impossible in the span of 20 minutes and rather than let the facts even begin to temper your position you decide to go full bore on why Matt Holliday would never stay with the A’s beyond 2009:

He’s too much of Boras’ bitch to have any say on where he plays baseball.

Like I said, bullshit.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 18, 2008 12:14 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

dude, like I said...

I was just asking. Okay, Jones was a good example of one who did. Loshe is a shitty example. He re-signed with the team he wanted to play for… for more than anyone else would have paid him.

You must really love Holliday. I’ll love him, too, in 2009… cuz that’s the only year the A’s will have him.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Nov 18, 2008 12:18 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

btw, I suspect Jones signed...

for more than anyone else offered, also. Anyone with a brain could see he was on the decline.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Nov 18, 2008 12:24 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

OK, I gotta ask

What are the next batch of winning lotto numbers?

‘Cause you’re saying with absolute certainty that a 30 year old SP coming off a 15-6, 3.78 ERA in 200 IP season got every last dollar he could have possibly found when he signed his contract with St. Louis.

Even though Lohse signed his contract about a week before the FA market opened so his suddenly brain dead agent Scott Boras didn’t even have a chance to legally talk to the other 29 teams in baseball about their interest in his client.

You don’t think that Boras even tried to convince his client that simply by going out on the open market he’d be virtually guaranteed to find more money, even in St. Louis, because of the basic economics of Supply & Demand.

That is truly Foolsh.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 18, 2008 12:28 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

no, not with absolute certainty...

I’ll concede that much. He may have gotten slightly more from some dumb GM. And, there are a few of ‘em out there. But, Lohse wanted to stay in St. Louis. Holliday won’t want to stay in Oakland. He won’t. You’re just gonna have to trust me on this one. Even if they win the World Series in 2009.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Nov 18, 2008 12:32 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I've been accused of having a god-complex

But even I am willing to stand aside and let a man I don’t even know make up his own mind.

Let me ask you this. Do you think CC Sabathia is a liar? Do you think he lied when he said he enjoyed his time in Milwaukee and would be willing to give the Brewers a discount in their attempts to re-sign him?

Because if you think he was telling the truth, that he would honor his word and consider staying with the Brewers if their money was close, then you just gave yourself all the argument you need to shut up about what Holliday will or won’t do 11 months from now.

You. Don’t. Know.

Neither do I, but at least I’m willing to let the events play out and not pre-determine the course of another person’s life.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 18, 2008 12:41 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

if I were a betting man...

and, I no long am… (I no longer drink to excess or whore around, either)… I would bet CC doesn’t sign with the Brewers. For exactly the same reason Holliday doesn’t sign with the A’s. The money won’t be close.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Nov 18, 2008 12:45 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Are you sure?

Can you bring it up with him over Thanksgiving Dinner, just to make sure?

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Nov 18, 2008 12:41 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I think there's a distinction here

As far as I can tell Lohse has always had Boras as his agent. Holliday hired Boras later.

I agree that this probably means Holliday went with an agent who would get him the most money, period. Lohse was already with that guy, so his motives aren’t quite as clear. Same goes for Jones, who also has always been with Boras according to Cot’s.

by thejd44 on Nov 18, 2008 12:23 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

When Holliday hired Boras is irrelevant

The Foolsh arguement is that Holliday is Boras’ bitch and he couldn’t stay with the A’s beyond 2009 even if he wanted to. His agent would make him go play somewhere else.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 18, 2008 12:30 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

But that's not really the argument

The argument is that Holliday hired the agent notorious for only caring about getting every last penny and quirk for his client. Holliday made a conscious decision to fire one agent to go with Boras. To me that says he’s going to leave it up to that agent to get him the best money deal.

by thejd44 on Nov 18, 2008 12:33 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

And there have been two cases presented

that strongly argue against the idea that Boras always goes after the last penny. We both agree that Boras will get Holliday good money, that’s a near certainty. Holliday is a damn good player, combined with Boras’ negotiation skills there’s going to be a lot of money going towards the Holliday family in about a year.

Even if Holliday hired Boras to get him the best money deal he is entitled to change his mind. And if he wants to try and stay in Oakland, if he is willing to give a discount to stay, then I say Boras is Matt Holliday’s bitch and will work to get that deal done.

Scott Boras works for Matt Holliday. If Matt Holliday wants to play in Oakland beyond 2009 I fully expect Mr. Boras to listen to his client’s desire.

Hell, what will probably happen is Beane will say “adios” after the season ends and won’t be willing to discuss Matt coming back.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 18, 2008 12:50 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

that's not my argument...

but, thank you for paraphrasing it inaccurately.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Nov 18, 2008 12:37 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I'm sorry

How silly of me to take this comment from you:

“It’s one thing if the player calls the shots… I doubt Holliday will override Boras”

And think that you were saying Boras was calling the shots on where Holliday would play in 2010.

When I challenged you to back that up, you said:

“he hired Boras for the same reason Zito did. To get him the most fucking money he can get. It’s not a matter of balls. The guy is gonna sign with the team that offers the most money.”

You say nothing about whether or not Holliday actually wants to play for said team. You have created this image of Matt Holliday having no control over where he plays in 2010 and that is crap. Scott Boras will decide where Holliday and any family he has will live.

Bullshit.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 18, 2008 12:59 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Considering how much of a ridiculous overpay that deal is

it’s highly questionable whether he could possibly have gotten more on the market…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 18, 2008 12:05 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I was just about...

to add that.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Nov 18, 2008 12:07 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Be reasonable about this

Lohse had a good