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Where do you want to see the Top Free Agents go?

Just forget for a few minutes about the cold, hard business of baseball and think about a fantasy Hot Stove season where every team had the money, roster need and desire to make legitimate offers to one or two top free agents. If that fantasy were to play out this winter, where would you want to see the top free agents sign for 2009 and beyond, and for what reason(s)?

Here's my list:

SS Rafael Furcal - Athletics - Ok, ok, I had to start with just a little bit of homer-ism here. Furcal makes very good sense for the A's on a short-term deal, especially in light of the Holliday acquisition.

CC Sabathia - Giants - CC, the Vallejo-native, loves his home cookin' and loves being able to hit. Since Zito has not emerged as the type of "face of the franchise" McGowan thought he would be, bringing-in the personable and charismatic Sabathia would essentially allow the franchise a do-over for remaking the club's image in the post-Bonds era. Signing CC would also allow the team to shop Matt Cain for an impact hitter, whom is needed as much on that side of the Bay as it is/was on our side.

Manny Ramirez - Dodgers - I live in Southern California and it was just mesmerizing seeing what Manny did to the Dodgers and their fans. I haven't seen such enthusiasm for the Blue Crew since they beat the A's in '88, and as much as that series hurt to watch, the Dodgers are one of the great franchises in professional sports, and they need superstars to legitimize their legacy and bring balance to the baseball world. Too bad Frank McCourt is such a cheap bastard. It's not like I would ever want to unequivocally agree with Scott Boras, but in a huge market like LA, Manny does, in effect, "pay for himself".

Mark Texeira - Anwyere but Anaheim/Washington DC - Tex was lethal for the Angels and I would hate to see him face-off against our Green and Gold boys 20 times every season for the next 6-10 years...but even beyond that, I would really like to see him shift to the National League and sign a monumental deal with Bowden and the woeful Nationals. Tex is from the DC area and would immediately give that franchise an identity and hope for the present and future. Plus, the politicians in DC could use the distraction of a slugger of Texeira's abilities to help them get through what seems like it could be a long, hot, high-stakes spring legislative season...

AJ Burnett - Baltimore - I guess I'm just a sucker for the "local boy returns to his roots just in time to save the franchise" type of story line. But Burnett would also be, arguably, a very important and seemingly necessary addition for the O's. The team desperately needs MLB-ready starting pitching of any type - Burnett, while not the most durable of starters - certainly fits that bill. Additionally, Burnett has also proven that he can be successful while pitching in the minefield that is the American League East. If the O's have any chance of ever competing in their division (and we should all hope they do, since anything they do to improve themselves will be one more knock on the Evil Empires in Boston and New York) then they will need a few guys like Burnett sooner rather than later.  And with a couple of nice young hitters on the MLB roster (Jones, Markakis) and a trio of nice pitching prospects about to break into the majors (Tillman, Matusz, Arrieta) Burnett could be just the guy to lead the O's back to respectability before the decade is out.

Adam Dunn - Blue Jays - I would just love to see the press conference where Ricciardi introduces Dunn to the (inter)national media: "Well, I looked into Adam's eyes and saw his soul...and what I saw was a guy who actually enjoys playing baseball."

K-Rod - Out of baseball - Seriously...is there a way baseball can collude and ban K-Rod from the game like it did with the Bonds situation? I think that would be in the best interest of the game...but you know that SOMEone is going to overpay for the Goggle-eyed one and I can only hope it's Omar Minaya...just so that K-rod will be in the NL East and we won't have to see him unless, miraculously, both the A's and Mets reach the World Series next season.

Derek Lowe- Yankees - Unlike Nico, I hate Derek Lowe. His crotch-grabbing, playoff-game clinching escapades of a few years back forever ingrained in me a deep sense of lowe-thing for Derek. Since the guy is a groundball machine, I would love for him to go to a poor defensive team like the Yankees, where he and Derek Jeter could be most exposed. Of course, overall, he'd make the Yankees better, but he'd also make them even easier to hate, which is a big reason why he makes sense for them...

Pat Burrell - The National League - By most metrics and just by basic observation, Pat Burrell is one of the worst defensive outfielders in the game. He really belongs as a DH in the American League, but it sure is fun to see a team forced to play Burrell in the field everyday...

Orlando Hudson - Dodgers - O-Hud is a character and he belongs in a larger-than-life city. The combination of him and Manny in Dodger blue would certainly result in a slew of well-publicized antics for many years to come...

Casey Blake - Indians - It would be a great story for the Indians to re-acquire Blake less than 6 months after trading him for two of the Dodgers' best prospects.

Trevor Hoffman - Diamondbacks - I think it's common knowledge that Hoffman is rather pissed about the way that Padres ownership has jerked him around this off-season after he loyally served the franchise for over a decade. I think it would be compelling for him to close out his career for an NL West contender like the D-Backs where he could personally make the Padres (or rather just the ownership group) regret their actions...

Randy Johnson - Cubs - This rumor is picking up steam, and I would like to see it become reality. The Unit is still an effective pitcher and could be a critical piece in breaking the Bartman/Billy Goat Curse.  Plus, with the Cubs offense behind him, he'd definitely pick up his 300th win next season, which I'd like to see the Livermore-native accomplish at some point.

Milton Bradley - White Sox - Bradley vs. Ozzie Guillen? Lordy, lordy....I'm pretty sure Major League Baseball could turn that into a year-long pay-per-view Ultimate Fighting extravaganza!

Jason Giambi - A's - Not much shock factor here. Most media sources and the vast majority of AN rosterbations have basically concluded that this is a done deal. I'm not so sure that it's such a certainty, but I think it would be good if it did, especially if the A's were to get Furcal too. Holliday + Furcal + Giambi = a reason to watch the A's in 2009.

Thoughts? Questions? Concerns?

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You should have had the A's sign Johnson instead of Giambi

Gallagher/Eveland as the #2 and #3 SP is an iffy proposition for a contending team.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 16, 2008 10:59 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

That would be intriguing.

I’m wondering if the Unit still has any local ties to the East Bay or if he was just born in Livermore and moved on from there?

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Nov 16, 2008 11:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know the answer to that, but...

…he’s always struck me as one that has no sentimental ties to a hometown whatsoever, so I doubt he’d be swayed by that factor.

"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds

by UncleLeo on Nov 16, 2008 12:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He spoke of it a long time ago.

When interviewed several years ago, Johnson said he wouldn’t mind coming back to the East Bay and pitching for the A’s before his career is over. This was in the Contra Costa Times in the 90’s.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Nov 16, 2008 4:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting.

I’d take him for a reasonable one-year contract. I think he’s got enough left to contribute positively for at least that long.

"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds

by UncleLeo on Nov 17, 2008 12:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

how high for RJ?

its been mentioned he has a "short list’ of teams he’d like to go to and that dodgers/cubs are one of the early teams already interested. i dont see him going for less than a 1yr/10mill or so deal…kind of similar to maddux in recent yrs

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 16, 2008 11:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He might also have a bit of a Peavy-ish attitude about switching leagues.

As in, he might ask for a few million more to go to the AL rather than the NL, and I don’t blame him. Nevertheless, he was reportedly willing to come back to the D-Backs for something like 4-5 million, so I bet 1-year, 8 million would be conversation-starter.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Nov 16, 2008 11:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

a few changes

   K-Rod = Mets because I would love to see him fall flat on his face it NY and get booed every pitched ball Benetiz II
  Milton Bradley = angels would love to see him explode in their dugout with the manager. Tghat would PPV UFC fight worth paying for. Bradley gets his butt whipped and hurts his knee
  Randy Johnson = oakland bring back the hometown kid to show the young pitchers how to dominate. I still say he could be a great lefty reliever out of the bullpen.
  Manny = white sox PPV II Manny and Guillen in a fight.
    CC = brewers hope he takes less money and less sttress and enjoys playing baseball. He is a great guy just don’t want to see him self destruct in NY.
  Dunn = Giants Sabean overpaying Dunn 100 million to play first. Second coming of Sexson.

  

by Arcman on Nov 16, 2008 11:27 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Agree that CC taking less money to stay in Brewtown would be interesting...

but apparently the player’s union is already pressuring him to take the Yankees offer of 6 years/$140 million.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Nov 16, 2008 11:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Truly a union who has learned nothing from the UAW.

Though CC should tell Fehr to blow it out his rear.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Nov 16, 2008 1:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or just smash him.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 4:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hate is a pretty strong word

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Nov 16, 2008 2:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

there's a good entry on MLBTR about how free-agents have earned the right to pretty much

ignore the Players Union and choose the best option for themselves, and that pressure from the PU usually holds more water with younger players making deals to avoid FA and arb.

Interesting take.

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Nov 16, 2008 1:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

would rather have Milton out of the AL west.

enjoy his unpredictability, but when his bat is hot i find him frightening.

Save Rajai Davis

by oakinboston on Nov 16, 2008 3:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dunn a Blue Jay

In other news JP jumps a shark.

by LBDirtbags on Nov 16, 2008 11:28 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I could only dream

of never having to see K-Rod again.

And actually, Taj, Teixeira is more from the Baltimore area and grew up an Orioles fan. Burnett just lives in the Baltimore area during the offseason because his wife is from here.

"We are a complete freak show." -- Billy Beane

by day-to-day on Nov 16, 2008 11:32 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Ahh, noted.

I still think that Burnett makes more sense for B-More and Tex makes more sense for the Nats, but I wouldn’t mind seeing guys go to Baltimore. God knows that organization needs a shot or two in the arm.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Nov 16, 2008 11:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Nov 16, 2008 3:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I still haven't seen good arguments for bringing in Giambi

Why do people think he’ll be much of an upgrade if he’s playing first base everyday? He’s truly incapable of doing that, and his offense stands to regress moving to McAfee (and, eventually, he’s going to age even with the crap he’s pumping into his body).

A signing of Giambi will really deflate most of the interest I have in this team for 2009. It will totally negate any Holliday excitement.

If the A’s are going to waste that money, can they just give it to me or something?

by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2008 11:57 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

+1

Barton is very much the better option, even before you consider the cost of bringing in Giambi.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 16, 2008 1:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

He’s a solid bat, but him on this team means someone who really should NOT be playing the field will be in the field. GIambi shouldn’t see the field. Defense is huge too.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 3:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

anyone annoyed by beane's strategy

during this rebuild…i know he is pitching centric, but 3-4 yrs of crosby/chavez of and on injuries, declining production…is it that difficult to find eventual 3b/SS replacements during that time? was it ignored? false hope in those 2 players? they really put themselves in a corner… since they had chances to prepare either through the draft or not using every major trade chip to find one. scutaro/hannhan was the best they could do? i find it hard to believe

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 16, 2008 11:57 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'm bemused more than annoyed

that he’s traded most of our highest value chips without addressing these obvious weaknesses. Overall I think what he’s landed in return in each individual trade has been proportionate, but there’s a constant feeling of waiting for the last piece to fall into place for it to make sense as a body of work.

Presumably this is at least partly because teams have been surveying the shortstop market in the same despair that we ANts are, and those with even marginally respectable internal options are holding on to them for fear of becoming buyers in this market themselves.

by green star oakland on Nov 16, 2008 12:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That is a very fair and rationale argument to explain the situation

However, I would counter by saying any GM who trades away that much talent and fails to address the organization’s most pressing weakness has failed to do his job properly.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 16, 2008 12:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And that is what bemuses me, since we know Billy is smart.

So is it that he thought that restocking the farm system was a higher priority, prompting the selection of the best available pieces regardless of the A’s immediate needs ?

by green star oakland on Nov 16, 2008 1:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

One of the "obvious weaknesses" on the team was having a superstar hitter.

Since, you know, the A’s were one of the worst offenses in the AL last year.

That’s been addressed.

by mikev on Nov 16, 2008 12:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The "single superstar hitter" plan can also backfire

as with Bonds and the Giants for his last couple of years.

I would guess that a whole bunch of somewhat better hitters scores more than a gem and dregs – which is part of the concern with trading for a year of Holliday if there is no other offensive upgrade (whether from trade, development or better luck). Someone with the stats handy, can you estimate how many more games would the A’s have won last year with Holliday in place of Emil Brown ?

by green star oakland on Nov 16, 2008 1:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's a rough sketch

Emil Brown: 43 Runs Created in 438 PA (63 RC in 650 PA)
Matt Holliday: 127 Runs Created in 623 PA (133 RC in 650 PA)

133 – 63 = 70, so offensively a full season of 2008 Matt Holliday is worth about 7 wins more than a full season of 2008 Emil Brown.

(Runs Created as calculated by fangraphs)

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 16, 2008 1:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and this doesn't even take into account the fact that Holliday is a better defender

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 16, 2008 1:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ask and ye shall receive - one of the things I love about AN :-)

So Holliday instead of Brown in 2007 – even adding a few wins for his defence – would have catapaulted us into 2nd place in the division.

Which is why it seems there must be more to it than this, and what worries me is that the grand plan may rely on either over-optimistic health assessments (again) or an oaktoonian understanding of regression to the mean.

by green star oakland on Nov 16, 2008 2:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That seems off to me...

How could Holliday be more than a 6 win upgrade, defense and offense taken into account?

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 7:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Emil was below replacement level this year.

Mainly b/c he saw so many ABs against RHP, which he sucks against.

I have him at roughly 6 wins above Emil.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 8:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Overall

When factoring in bat + defense, yeah, he was below replacement level.

He has usefulness as a platoon DH against lefties ONLY, but that’s about it.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 10:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I know that.

I was wondering about this:

I have him at roughly 6 wins above Emil.

Total, right?

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 10:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes.

But my math might be screwy. IDK. 5-6.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 10:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

who should they get?

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Nov 16, 2008 3:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I read a report saying the Mets were wary of K-Rod

because of the drop in his velocity. His agent gave the explanation, “He likes throwing it slower because he has more control over it.” Hah! Out of baseball is not that far from reality. He’s a walking-disaster-waiting-to-happen.

I’m starting to warm up to the idea of Furcal at short, I just hope we don’t have to overpay for his services. Giambi, I’m a little warier of. He would almost certainly have to play the field. Cust is DH, and Giambi would have to be at first and that makes me nervous. He’s not the kind of guy you want playing defense behind a young pitching staff or any staff for that matter.

Giving Barton another year in the minors to hone his hitting skills wouldn’t be the worst idea ever, but he’s definitely proven himself down there and just needs to prove himself in the majors. On the other hand, a year on the farm to play third could be an interesting move, but I still don’t think he’ll ever stick there.

by NateHST on Nov 16, 2008 11:58 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

An .827 OPS in the PCL in 2007 is not that great...

I think the PCL league average OPS that season was .794

Giving him the objective of learning third base in AAA, with a secondary goal of hoping his bat develops further, might be the best thing for his career. But who knows how the organization will handle this.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 7:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Giambi and Big Unit to A's

and maybe Furcal on a two year deal.

K-Rod-Somewhere in the New Jersey Pike

CC-Actually, I would love for him to be an Athletic but that will never happen! So the next best thing would be for him to stay in Milwaukee or bankrupt the Giants further.

Burnett-Who cares?

Tex-Baltimore makes sense but I have a feeling he’ll end up a Yankee or maybe a Giant it they lose out on the Manny sweepstakes.

Manny-He’ll end up playing in Japan for half the NGP.

Milton Bradley-He could end up with the Tigers or the Yanks. More likely, he’ll end up in jail……..

Burrel-Stays with the Phils

Lowe-Going back to the Red Sux

by mrod on Nov 16, 2008 11:58 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Looks like a few could end up across the bay.

MLBTraderumors.com has the Giants very interested in Manny Ramirez and Mark Teixeira, and that the Giants and Furcal have “serious interest” in each other.
Also they say that the Giants have also spoken with C.C. Sabathia’s representatives.

This would really shake up the free agent market

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Nov 16, 2008 11:58 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

All that would take a whole lot more money than they have.

Of course they wouldn’t sign them all, but still… Zito’s contract is like a stone around their neck and will seriously limit their flexibility for several years. I could maybe see them signing one of these players, but not more than that.

"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds

by UncleLeo on Nov 16, 2008 12:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

if t hey overpaid zito/rowand to go there

i cant imagine what they’d have to give manny/texiera

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 16, 2008 12:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Zito was a downright idiotic move by Sabean.

The second highest bid was about 50MM less in total value. Boras played Sabean. Sabes could’ve had Zito for cheaper, if he wanted to.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone keeps saying that they don't want to see any more K-Rod

but in my personal opinion, i would love for the Angels to overpay for him, therefore prohibiting them to deal all the cash out for CC or Tex or Manny.
Plus hasn’t he blown more saves against the a’s than any other team? (please correct me if i’m wrong)
there is nothing better than winning a game off K-rod and seeing him slink back to the dugout…

by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2008 12:09 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I agree

Let the Angels be morons.

He’s good for 8 or 9 blown saves.

I canot believe they would be that stupid to take him back but here’s hoping they are.

by Trainman on Nov 16, 2008 12:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yes

let them pay a ton to krod, than CC/Teixiera…i’d take that trade off

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 16, 2008 12:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather have Teixeira and Holliday than Furcal and Giambi

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 12:17 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I tend to agree, but...

…I think the team could get by with their present options at 1B easier than they could without addressing the SS and/or 3B situations. I’d still love to have Tex, though, don’t get me wrong.

"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds

by UncleLeo on Nov 16, 2008 12:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's hoping Beane has an amazingly awesome trick up his sleeve...

Teixeira joining Holliday in Green and Gold would be the best Christmas present ever.

I know it won’t happen but it’s fun to pause my day and imagine that play-out.

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Nov 16, 2008 1:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty well against Giambi.

I’d rather have Dunn for another 5-6M per season and send Barton down to learn 3B.

by mikev on Nov 16, 2008 12:21 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

+1

I find it strange that i’m actually saying this as a Barton advocate since day 1, but if the A’s are planning on the playoffs in 09’ I don’t see Barton on the team unless its at 3B. The A’s need to add another bat, and at this point it looks like 1B is going to be the best spot to do it at. Obviously 3B or SS would be nice positions to fill but I just don’t see the A’s having a true impact bat at either of those positions come opening day. If it does happen, I think it’ll be because of a healthy Chavez at 3B. Furcal would be a huge upgrade but I just don’t see Beane giving him the contract its gonna take to get him in green and gold. The rest of the FA SS’s are nothing to get overly excited about (Renteria, Cabrera). Cust needs to stay at DH, with the OF consisting of Holliday, Sweeney and Buck. If one of these guys go down then Cunningham is next in line. Mr. Beane, if your serious about this thing please stay away from Giambi and sign Dunn or Tex to play 1B. I’ll take a hit defensively for an .875 OPS.

by JPShark on Nov 16, 2008 4:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't mind Barton at 1B in 2010. He gets a year to prove himself and then gets pushed by

Doolittle and Carter maybe in 2011-2012.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 5:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I haven't seen any evidence that Dunn would be an upgrade over Giambi.

He’s going to cost more, require a longer commitment, and may not even represent a upgrade over Giambi in the short term.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 7:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure but I think rebus's point is that Dunn is a greater risk with a long term deal

I’d prefer Dunn because he’s still likely to be good in 2010-14 when the A’s really contend.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 8:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If the A's are going to add a big OF/DH bat for 5-6 years

why not get the one who can actually play defense in Matt Holliday.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 8:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

spend more money, but get the better all around player.

Defense matters. A lot.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 8:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, I thought we were discussing Dunn vs Giambi. Holliday trumps both for sure.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 9:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather

Giambi for 2 seasons plus option at 10M/yr + Randy Johnson for 1 season plus option at 10M/yr

than

Dunn for 6 seasons at 16M/yr + 4M to spend

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 8:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

hypothetical question:

would you rather have Giambi/Johnson at $20mm for 2009 or IF THE POSSIBILITY EXISTED, Teixeira for $22-25mm for 2009 and beyond (I don’t know if you already answered this on the Teixeira signing post.)

(I agree on your comment about not wanting Dunn that long.) And that brought me to think how much more is worth it to do a long-term deal on Teix.

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Nov 16, 2008 8:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I'd prefer trying to extend Holliday... he's better than Teixeira.

I’d like Teixeira at a high price (25M), but it would depend on the years required. I don’t think I’d want to do more than 6 years, and I doubt he signs for that. And that would make a Holliday deal impossible. Besides, even Dunn + 9M probably buys more wins in the short term, which is really my focus.

With the team in such a state of transition and the prospects still developing, I’d prefer to keep options relatively open.

Giambi/Johnson at $20mm for 2009 for me.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 9:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure you can say that Holliday is better than Tex so bluntly

Their stats are pretty similar, and factor in that Holliday spent his home games at Coors…but then again Tex played in Texas, too. Tex plays a gold glove caliber first base as well.

by NateHST on Nov 16, 2008 9:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough.

I wouldn’t be so quick to say Holliday is a better player than Teixeira, but I do think signing him long-term is a lot more a.) likely b.) worth-while c.) a little cheaper d.) productive

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Nov 16, 2008 9:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I would put Teixeira at about 1 win over Holliday

which warrants the 5MM per year increase (you can assume going rate for 1 win above replacement level at 5MM/yr), but when Teixeira is getting more years than Holliday (a player seeking a longer year deal generally takes less than his annual value in exchange for the added security).

Holliday’s the better value.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 9:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Even with better base running?

And how do you see their defense?

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 9:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Teixeira for 22-25MM for how many years?

4? Yeah.

6-8? No.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 9:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

6 years and I would do it.

But I agree with the train of thought that Holliday is already on the A’s and he should be the main priority for locking up long-term.

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Nov 16, 2008 9:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm weary of giving ANYONE a six year deal.

Way too much futuresight IMO. Unless he’s willing to do 6 at 15-16 MM/yr (VERY unlikely), I’d rather go with lower-year commitments.

Holliday will be cheaper and require fewer years.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 9:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that locking up somebody long-term is a huge risk.

You don’t have to go further than our own third-basemen to recognize that fact. But, the A’s are going to have to spend money one way or the other, to stay competitive, and I think trying to get Holliday locked up is worth a 5 or 6 year deal. And as far as free-agents go, I think Teixeira is one of the few guys in the league I would be willing to extend that same type of offer, should the A’s go that route instead of Holliday.

My personal opinion is that Holliday seems like the perfect guy to build that next 5 or 6 years around, particularly due to the fact of a possible new ball park/ marketablility that I mentioned in an earlier post.

Iam just glad that the 99% consensus that Holliday is a one-year rental is starting to give way (maybe its only 95% now) to the possibility that the A’s do have to spend money sooner or later, and with the prices of contracts going up every off-season, and Holliday already on our roster, I think he is worth a shot at re-signing

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Nov 16, 2008 9:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Plus they can form gangs in prison

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 9:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

haha didn't realize how many times I said "locked up"

hopefully nobody feels imprisoned on our team though…

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Nov 16, 2008 9:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I could also see the current economic state playing into this.

Scott Boras wants his clients to get the biggest payday. If that means resigning with his current team, that is his job. Generally, due to market conditions, that means testing the market. However, there are exceptions to the rule. Think Kyle Lohse. If he went on the FA market, he wouldn’t be one of the big guys on the market. He definitely got more from the Cardinals IMO than he’d get on the open market.

The economy is going to be huge in this. You’re not going to see teams significantly raise payroll unless there are significant changes to the team (ex. the Rays) that dictate such raises. The Diamondbacks cut back 31 employees, etc. None of the big pieces which have been traded have fetched back large returns (exceptions made for Gregg and maybe Holliday).

The A’s have a relatively low payroll, but if the budget is at 60MM, the A’s have more payroll flexibility than a LOT of the bigger budget teams. The A’s 2010 commitments, not including arbi raises (and I think Buck, Casilla, and Cust are the only players due arbi raises in 2010, most others are 2011) are at about 30-32MM. If the payroll ceiling is at 60MM, that’s about 25-30MM to play around with. And, Scott Boras knows that.

So, the conditions for a Holliday extension are pretty favorable, if you ask me.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 9:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If he fears a recession he's likely to insist on an opt-out

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 10:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm yeah.

But, a 6 yr contract for Holliday with a player opt-out after the 4th year would strap the team just as much as a 6 year straight contract for the same amount. If there’s a big enough recession, the A’s are in the hole either way.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 10:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Would you rather give Holliday $30M/year for 2 years or

$20M/year for six years with an opt-out after 2 years?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 11:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How do you reconcile this with the "yup" comment below?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 18, 2008 3:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't

Theses are two seperate comments on two different things. I say 6 years guaranteed for Holliday at 120 million.

The other comment had to do with early" opt outs". See?

by mrod on Nov 18, 2008 9:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm going to pretend you ended that with a prohibition-era gangster sneer

Makes me happier anyway.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 18, 2008 10:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My question was 6/$120 with the opt-out or

2/$60 with no opt-out. You chose the one with the opt-out, yet you also agreed that opt-outs are “an unbelievably bad idea”.

So I guess I don’t see.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 18, 2008 10:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I must have got my answers mixed up then

My stance is the same.

I agree with 6 year extension.

I don’t agree with an early player opt out. Capeesh’?

by mrod on Nov 18, 2008 11:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure Beane is smart enough to realize that giving players opt-outs

is an unbelievably bad idea. How’d the Drew and Burnett contracts work out?

Exactly.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 16, 2008 10:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Holliday was a one-year rental even if the A's extend him...

Why? Because they could have just waited a year and then signed him off the market without giving up any talent (apart from one draft pick).

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 16, 2008 10:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You keep willfully ignoring the one year bargaining window

It may end up not being used, but it isn’t 0 value.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 16, 2008 10:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't accept that point

The only problem with Boras is that he gets his clients big contracts. If we’re willing to give Holliday one, Boras becomes an asset.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 16, 2008 10:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He gets his clients big contracts by advising them to go to free agency instead of sign extensions.

It’s a lot easier to get big money when there is a pool of, say, 15-20 teams potentially bidding for a player as opposed to a pool of 1 trying to negotiate an extension.

by mikev on Nov 16, 2008 10:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, if this is a video game with injuries set to "off"

In the real world, however, there are reasons not to wait.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 16, 2008 10:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If anyone cared to do it, compiling the Boras clients who signed extensions

vs the clients who tested free agency would be a fun exercise.

I have the suspicion that the numbers would WILDLY favor guys going to free agency.

by mikev on Nov 16, 2008 10:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Injuries, regression, unlucky BABIPs, etc.

All set to off.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 10:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It has happened before..

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 16, 2008 10:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or you're refusing to admit there are risk factors in saying no to a huge guaranteed payday

Which, plainly, is not true.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 16, 2008 10:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not refusing to admit that.

I’m simply saying that, more often than not, Boras clients go to free agency in order to maximize their money.

by mikev on Nov 16, 2008 10:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Boras's job is to get his client the most MONEY

and attempt to properly gauge what the best deal is that his client can get on the market.

if that means NOT testing the FA market and accepting the big deal from the current team, so be it (Pena, Lohse, etc.).

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 10:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not talent-wise.

Holliday is leaps and bounds a better player.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 10:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Right - that's precisely why the most money would be via free agency.

He’ll be the best player available in the 2010 market.

Lohse was a pretty specific circumstance.

by mikev on Nov 16, 2008 10:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The one year window might-- might-- have been worth Greg Smith

and I’m not sure I’d have given that much up for it.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 16, 2008 10:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I call it (re-named it actually) the St. Louiseffect

Formerly known as the McGwire effect (changed for the obvious reasons) this is the theory that trading for a player just prior to him becoming a free agent opens his eyes to the possibility of staying with his new club for a long time.

In 1997 the A’s sucked and Mark McGwire was headed out the door as a free agent. Everyone, including Mark himself, was saying that he’d probably head home to SoCal and play for the Angels. Then right at the trade deadline St. Louis swept in a traded for Big Mac, giving him a 2 and a half month tour of a town he never even considered playing in. He ended up falling in love with St. Louis and stayed with the Cardinals through the end of his career.

Both parties acknowledged that signing wouldn’t have happened if he hadn’t played for the Cardinals at the end of the ‘97 season. 2009 represents the chance to open up Holliday’s eyes to the possibility of staying in Oakland for a long time.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 16, 2008 10:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder how much of it was

the city of St.Louis, the fans, the lifestyle side of it, and how much of it was the teammtes, the culture of the team, the ownership front-office…

Because the A’s offer a lot in the sense of the latter part, but I could see how he might miss the comforts and lifestlye he enjoyed in Colorado compared to the eyesores of the East Bay…

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Nov 16, 2008 10:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

THE SCHOOLS!!!11!!11111!!!11!!11

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 10:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd much prefer to play in St Louis than Oakland, and not just

because I live in St Louis. It’s just that the Cardinals are royalty here (temporary royalty anyway). It’s a lot more fun to play when millions of people actually care about the team through thick and thin.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2008 12:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This is the exact reason

I think Beane needs to field the best possible team in 2009. If Holliday comes to California and finds himself in the middle of a playoff hunt, along with a great clubhouse atmosphere and a bunch good young players he might decide he likes Oakland. Especially if he’s a smart guy and looks at the entire situation with arguably the top farm system in baseball, and a new stadium on the horizon. Regarding the post below, i’m not sure if you mean playing with the team or playing in the city of Oakland itself. The team thing I talked about already, and as far as the city of Oakland itself goes we all know the story. However there are many, many things to like about the bay area as a whole, and even within Oakland. IMHO the bay area has the more to offer then most other places in the U.S. I guess my point is that although Holliday didn’t know squat about Oakland prior to the trade, he has a whole year to learn about it and history has shown thats not exactly a bad thing. It seems that most who end up playing here love it, and those who leave end up regreting it.

by JPShark on Nov 17, 2008 8:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That last

post was supposed to go under Grover’s about Big Mac. Sorry folks, still learnin the AN system.

by JPShark on Nov 17, 2008 8:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Part of the AN system

Please do not capitalize my name unless you’re using it to start a sentence. My name is grover.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 17, 2008 10:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I would agree

These two, (Holliday/Tex) are the only two I would make a 6 yr offer on for two reasons. 1) They are both are going to be among the league leaders both offensively & defensively every year. 2) They both have no history of injuries, both for the most part have been healthy there whole career. I would do 6yr/120m for Holliday or 6yr/140m for Tex. That is not to say that either one will sign for that but if I was BB those are the offers I would make to each.

"AN, Reducing Work Productivity since 2003", connie mack 11/06/08

by adragon on Nov 18, 2008 2:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

so in that situation

dunn at 1b, barton at 3b..wow that will do no favors for the pitching staff

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 16, 2008 12:46 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

barton would be in the minors

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Nov 16, 2008 3:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You mean until Chavez goes on the DL?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 5:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well judging by chavez's history

he will be on the DL after a week and a half, so it would probably be too soon to bring barton up. more hannahan! (ugh)

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Nov 16, 2008 11:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah. So much for Barton starting the season off at AAA.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 11:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

no kidding

i guess we’ll see

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Nov 16, 2008 11:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know why we're acting like the yankees all of a sudden

If we want to keep Holliday (and I think we should) we can’t also have another hugely expensive FA. No one was louder than me about wanting Dunn before the trade. Now I think it would be a mis-allocation of resources.

The holes we have in our team are at SS and 3B. I don’t see an option other than Furcal which is much of an improvement over Crosby (who is already under contract for 2009), so if we can get him, fine. If not lets see Crosby’s walk year.

At 3B, I don’t expect Chavez will play at all and the thought of Hannahan getting at bats on this team scares me to no end. I really think we need a better plan B.

Finally, I definitely think either Randy or Brad Penny is a great idea on a one year contract to bridge the gap between Harden/Blanton and Cahill/Anderson. Pitching is weak in 2009 only, so it seems fortuitous that there are reasonable 1-year FA options out there.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 16, 2008 1:50 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

keeping holliday

is a long shot only due to borass…any other agent i’d feel a bit better

beane can go 2 directions in signing a bit bat if he doesnt expect holliday longterm

1. sign another short term bat to compliment holliday during that time

2.sign another bat for long term than can potentially replace holliday beyond 09 so if he leaves you still have burrell, dunn, etc and not back to cust and a bunch of inexperience…it would be back to 07 again

as much as i like furcal he’s not the impact bat beyond 09 if this offense reverts back to previous yrs and no one to drive him in

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 16, 2008 2:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I actually think Boras makes it more likely the A's get Holliday.

A player hires Boras if he wants to get paid maximum dollars. All the A’s have to do is offer maximum dollars to get someone, rather than having to compete with “I want to go to the Red Sox so I can win a championship” or “Mickey Mantle was my father’s idol, so I want to go to the Yankees”.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 5:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see why not.

Chavez will be off the books before the young players are scheduled to hit arbitration. If A’s keep payroll steady at 60MM and spend responsibly, they should be able to handle both.

As long as Holliday isn’t costing more than 18-20MM/yr, the A’s should be fine. And, with teams hopefully diving deep into the 2008 FA “OF” (most of the guys should be DHing) market, hopefully there won’t be as many teams desiring OFs in 2009.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 7:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Also, the more humanistic perspective:

IF/when the A’s open a new ball-park, it would be a lot more worth it with a Superstar face of the franchise, should Holliday stay, along with the crop of studly young starters just starting to see success in the Majors, that could be a nice situation for the A’s to be in.

Imagine an opening day in 2011/12 with the marketablility of a new ballpark, Matt Holliday locked in to the 2nd or 3rd year of a 6 year deal, leaving the cavernous depths of the Coliseum, backed by young aces Cahill and Anderson. Along with the possible positive development of Buck/Sweeney/Suzuki/Cardenas, etc…

We’ll see, but I think Holliday is the perect guy to have on board for the near-future of the A’s.

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Nov 16, 2008 8:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah.

He’s a great offensive player, he’s also a solid defender and the A’s aren’t giving him a position where he’s weak at defensively to begin with.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 9:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I really like the idea of an incentive type deal for Penny.

I think the Big Unit is on too many other team’s radars though.

I also agree a better plan B at 3rd is imperative, but I am foolishly holding out hope that Chavez will have a productive season at the hot-corner.

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Nov 16, 2008 1:53 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I would definitely like to see the A's acquire a veteran starting pitcher to help out the young guys in 2009.

But it seems like Billy has made up his mind that he’s not going to sign or acquire anyone just for the sake of “leadership”. The Penny idea seems solid to me…so does Freddy Garcia. Bring either one of them in on the cheap with incentive-based deals and see if they pan out.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Nov 16, 2008 2:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course what Beane says and what Beane does

are described in computer science as !=

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 16, 2008 2:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

good post

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Nov 16, 2008 3:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

it worked well w/ The Big Hurt the first round, not so well with Piazza

and the second go around with Big Frank was not as successful, maybe the idea has soured on him.

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Nov 16, 2008 7:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The second go-around of Frank was picking him up off waivers

and paying him league minimum.

If a big power threat is on the waiver wire, and you have an open roster spot, you pick him up and see what he’ll do. If he sucks, cut him.

And, BB hasn’t brought in a veteran starting pitcher on an incentive-laden 1 year deal, if I remember correctly (or the substances have taken their toll on me).

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 7:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And, Penny pitching well in 2009 would be HUGE for his career

He’ll have the privilege of pitching in a pitcher’s dream park, with a really good defense (including the very sexy Ellis) behind him for that 1 year deal. He’s still young-ish, if he pitches well on the one year deal, some stupid GM will give him a 3-4 year deal after 2009.

He has something to prove.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 8:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But how long does he pitch before he breaks down

The guy has been on the DL more than I have had hot dinners.

Ever since he made that AS appearance in 2006 and hit 98 for what was it, a couple of innings, he has been injured on and off ever since. If he could stay healthy for a season that would be great

by Trainman on Nov 16, 2008 8:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"The guy has been on the DL more than I have had hot dinners."

True, true.

That’s pretty much the question. Does he stay healthy enough to

The advantage the A’s have here is that whoever would be taking Penny’s place, if he were to get hurt, wouldn’t be as bad as he might be on another team. But, he wouldn’t be good, unless our young guys have a breakthrough.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 8:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

fixing sentence

…Does he stay healthy enough to be a monumental contributor to the A’s playoff run?

That’s the main case for Unit over Penny. He’s more likely to stay healthy.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 8:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This is silly...

If we had the money for any of those guys on that list and we could pick any two…I sure wouldn’t pick Raffy and Giambi. Texeira and Sabathia all the way.

by IM4Oakgal on Nov 16, 2008 2:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

+1

But I enjoy being silly.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Nov 16, 2008 3:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

HeeHee

Well have at it…sorry to be a wet blanket.

by IM4Oakgal on Nov 16, 2008 3:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Big thumbs up for "lowe-thing"

Lots of thoughts on this one. I was playing this game in my head this morning with a slightly different slant- namely, the Yankees are going to spend huge bucks on somebody (or somebodies) so who do I want to see the Yankees acquire? Obviously Sabathia is so cool that it’d be great to see him in Milwaukee or across the bay from y’all rather than out with Grand Moff Tarkin and the boys. Lowe to the Yanks sounds good, as at 35 he’s old enough hopefully to start breaking down soon. I’ve read speculation about just about every team in the majors looking at Furcal, so I can’t see him landing here. Beane tried for the first mover’s advantage, even letting out that lame Renteria rumor, but there are just too many interested parties for Furcal to be had at a reasonable price. I feel aggressively neutral toward him, though the A’s could certainly use his skill set. I hope the Orioles do NOT get Burnett- as it says in BP’s Hot Stove guide, they really need to blow things up and start over instead of overpaying for some chump for the umpteenth time. They should trade away some of their older pieces for a few new baubles in hopes that a few are legit enough to hang out with Markakis and Jones for the foreseeable.

The thought that brought a smile to my face was thinking of our dear departed Miltie playing in pinstripes. Talk about a media circus! That would be hilarious. Let’s put Manny out there too, for good measure….

Finally, a big +1 to everyone above who is still sort of mystified about where we’ll end up in a few months. Holliday is an exciting player, but a one year rental makes zero sense for us right now. The longer he’s an A, the more incredulous I become. There has to be a plan to flip him for some other group of players, right? Right?

by BaltimoreAN on Nov 16, 2008 2:56 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I DO hate Derek Lowe, for the record

I just think he’d make the A’s better.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 16, 2008 3:44 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure about a 4-5 year deal though. I guess we could trade him after a year.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 5:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or two years

That way you have pretty much honored the signing, and you have given the young pitchers time to reach the #2 spot in the rotation, while only keeping Lowe for seasons he is likely to be very good.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 16, 2008 8:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The problem is, if he actually begins showing his age

early into the deal.

The A’s are screwed if that happens.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 8:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the odds are low (or should I say Lowe?)

on him showing his age early. I’d worry a lot more about a power pitcher or a pitcher with an injury history than I would a sinker/slider pitcher with a great track record of being healthy.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 16, 2008 8:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And Ben Sheets. And Rich Harden when he hits FA.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 9:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He'll be 36-37 next year.

The clock is ticking.

Although I think he’ll stay healthy, its something to consider.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 9:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's not really a stretch to see a pitcher like Lowe

being effective when he’s 40. In contrast it’s unlikely Sheets, Burnett, or Sabathia will be effective when they’re 37.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 16, 2008 9:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sabathia?

Why do you say that?

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 9:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Power pitcher, not in great shape physique-wise

He could have a great career over a shorter period, rather than a very good career over a longer period. I don’t think he’ll be the best risk when he’s 37; he’s great now, though.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 16, 2008 9:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Where do you get the idea that power pitchers don't have long careers?

Most of the guys who pitch 15-20 years had high K-rates, even Glavine reached 2600 K’s. The one exception I can think of is Tommy John.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 9:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Totally agree with OHud to the Dodgers.

Keep him in the NL. Ellis already has enough trouble winning Gold Gloves.

Ray: "How fun is it to be up here playing in the Big Leagues?"
Gio: "It's *SUPER* fun!!!"

by Poppy on Nov 16, 2008 4:11 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

i hope they sign fural too

then at least 1 of hu/dejesus would be available

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 16, 2008 4:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"Hu De' Jesus'?"

The blasphemy here continues to baffle me….!

:}

by mrod on Nov 16, 2008 4:30 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

These have zero logic, but they're what I WANT to see.

Seriously, Taj Adib. Do you really WANT to see the Billy Goat Curse broken? I’d rather see Cupcakes take BP off Rich Harden repeatedly (we all know he has that HR swing) than that happen. And I like Rich, a lot. And i want the “curse” to go on for the rest of my life, however long that might be.

Adam Dunn- Umm, Twins? They need HR power. I like them. IDK.

Teixeira- I have no fucking clue. I can’t think of an especially entertaining place for him. Just not Anaheim.

Garland- Texas. A flyball pitcher in Arlington. Yay.

Giambi- Red Sox. Youkillis can move to 3B. 1. Fuck the Yankees. 2. The Red Sox are a worse team with Lowell gone, Youkillis at 3rd, and a statue at 1st.

Manny-I’m tied on this one. Anaheim, on a six year contract. First of all, he’s another DH. Second of all, he’s going to be fried after the 2nd or 3rd year. So, you have Manny taking up large portions of slegnA payroll for the next 4-5 years. Thus preventing them from making any smart moves. And, when he ISN’T on the bench, one of him or Vlad is in the field, and they both play LOLdefense.

Or, White Sox. UFC night, PPV. Manny v. Ozzie. This will be fun. But, that move is bad for the White Sox, and SSS is a really fun read. I think I pick the White Sox for this one. Just for the comic value.

Orlando Cabrera (sit the fuck down)- Tigers. I want to see plenty of brawls. Putting all the brawl-types on two teams(Gary Sheffield, Manny, Orlando Cabrera, AJ, etc.) in the same division, along with Ozzie Guillen, is just a recipe for lots of fun times. Oh, one of either the Tigers or White Sox will pick up Jonny Gomes when he’s nontendered. Just to add to the brawl nature. Oh. Miguel Olivo is also in the division, which can add some Royal blue to the brawling.

Oliver Perez- Angels. This guy is a ticking timebomb. Seriously. When young pitchers put up really low K/BBs, they get written about and people are aware. However, most people think Ollie checks out as a legitimate FA target. The A’s will be taking batting practice off of him. Repeatedly. Or go to the Giants, so we can all watch the Perez and Zito Walk-A-Thon. But I prefer slegnA, because its entertaining.

K-Rod AND his predecessor- Angels.Predecessor’s not an FA, but I’m near-certain that their nice, intelligent GM will let the slegnA have him for a bag of balls. This will be one hell of an entertaining combination to watch.

Raul Ibanez- Cubs. Raul’s Lawn Dart brings all the girls to the yard. And, because Raul Ibanez in the Cubbies’ outfield along with Alfonso Soriano is so MFing great for defense. Oh. BoCro gets sent to the Cubs for five of the hottest chicks in the Wrigley stands.

Derek Lowe- Out of baseball. Blackballing FTW!

Kerry Wood- Cardinals. Why? He has to go to an NL Central team. It’s more fun that way.

CC- Brewers. He’s a great guy, and I think he’s a horse. And, the CC/Prince Fielder jokes are just hilarious.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 4:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

And I want the 2009 Cubs to be the 2008 Mariners.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 4:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

As long as the 2009 Mariners aren't the 2008 Cubs I'm OK with that.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 5:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The 2009 Mariners are the 2008 Padres

Fucking horrible, but not horrible enough to get the #1 overall draft pick.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 7:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I just really don't see how Furcal is worth it

Crosby may suck out loud but I’m looking around and as far as the money goes it’s(Crosby for $5 m) not that bad of deal.

I think our big money (when the fu** did we get big money?) should be spent on Dunn. Or if not Dunn then Giambi and a pitcher and if it’s a pitcher I don’t see how Lowe isn’t the best deal for the A’s right now. And I hate Lowe, just trying to be pragmatic.

But really, does anybody on here think that Furcal at SS is gonna get us to contention with Barton and Chavez at the corners? Because that is where we are currently. Come on then, speak! I mean right now Kurt Suzuki is our best hitting infielder! So let’s take some of this scrilla folks have been talking about and get a real corner bat with some damn pop! Ok?

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Nov 16, 2008 4:53 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think Furcal is easily worth it as Paul showed in his post -- 4-5 wins over Crosby

My problem with Furcal is that the same analysis would have shown Chavez as being really good in 2007-8, and Kotsay really good in 2006-7 when in fact they were both declining and injured.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 5:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry that wasn't clear. A healthy Furcal is worth it. My problem with him is the health risk.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 5:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And that is a big if

Dunn would be how many wins over Barton? 12? 14? I just don’t see us signing Furcal and Dunn. I guess Furcal and Giambi could do it, but Dunn is more of a sure thing.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Nov 16, 2008 5:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's not nearly that many.

Barton had a terrible year with the bat, but a great year with the glove. Dunn’s glove is so bad that his upgrade on offense will be partially used to make up for his stone glove.

I would guess that the upgrade represents about 3 wins, and that’s probably slightly pessimistic for Barton, who might see his hitting bump with better luck.

It’s difficult to calculate how bad Dunn will be at first when he played mostly outfield last season, but he’s likely to do worse playing first. (old link, but Dunn defense related)

Giambi, with his age, might be even worse than Dunn with the glove at this point, but he’d still be a good bet for a 2.5 win upgrade over Barton at a much cheaper price.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 7:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree, I think Giambi is only worth about 1 win at this point

If he’s playing first, that’s a positional hit of about 15 runs relative to Barton defensively. You really think he’s going to be 40 runs better with the bat? 200 OPS points, roughly? I can’t see any justification for expecting that kind of a spread.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 16, 2008 8:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It was .200 last year on the dot, but you're right that it probably won't continue that way.

for park effects if for no other reason

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 8:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

True

Giambi might lose 20 points of OPS… so 35 runs better than Barton.

BTW, we should have a ‘Statistical Rule of Thumb’ section that covers stuff like:

~10 runs = ~1 win

5 points of OPS = ~1 run

yadda yadda yadda

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 9:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

200 OPS points, roughly?

I think that was about their exact difference last season.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 8:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

w/ Giambi hitting it to the short porch, and Barton having a CAREER year

that is, hopefully the worst year of his career.

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Nov 16, 2008 8:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not worried about the homers

Giambi, when healthy, consistently has a ~20% HR/FB ratio.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 9:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

...when Barton was 22 and Giambi was 37

Since Barton will be 23 and Giambi 38 next season, the odds of that differential holding are very low.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 16, 2008 10:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dunn isn't a better value than Giambi.

 There are no 12-14 win players. Albert Pujols was 10 wins above replacement, and he’s the best player in the game. I pegged Dunn as about a 3 win replacement over Barton, and Barton’s barely over replacement level when taking into account offense, defense, and position.

If its between Dunn and Giambi, Giambi is the better bet because he’s cheaper. Both suck with the glove, and both shouldn’t be in the field. And, Dunn comes with a bigger deal than Giambi does. He’ll be under contract when Barton/Carter/Doolittle are ready to contribute at the big league level. Giambi won’t. And, a 2 year deal is much less of a risk than a 4 year deal.

As long as Giambino comes on a two year deal, that is. Any longer and Giambi should be shown the door.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 7:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Dunn would suck with the glove somewhat less than Giambi

I’m guessing Dunn would be something like 5-10 runs below average and Giambi 10-20 runs below average. But Dunn’s not played that much 1B so it’s anyone’s guess.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 8:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're being kind to Dunn by starting his range at -5

He’s got bad reflexes and poor hands…

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 8:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well he was -6 last year according to +/-

so there’s some evidence in his….well not favor exactly but sort of

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 8:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, yeah.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 8:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't say it was strong evidence

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 9:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

My feelings precisely.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 9:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The health risk is why I'm in favor of an optional 3rd year.

A “bad” 2 year contract, if Furcal is injured, isn’t a team killer.

by mikev on Nov 16, 2008 6:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.

I’m all for Furcal on a 2 year deal, but any longer than that in guaranteed years and you’re in bad territory.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 8:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Given that he's already reportedly turned down 2/$30M for the Dodgers

I’d say that’s a non-starter. The question is really is he worth 4/$55M or so.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 8:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

4/55?

Hell to the naw. It’s way too big of a gamble IMO.

I don’t like the idea of big money on the DL.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 8:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that Furcal at SS is "gonna get us to contention with Barton and Chavez at the corners"

although I’d like to see the team sign Johnson or another veteran pitcher in that scenario as well… but, um, the point here is that a “big bat” and a black hole is not better than 2 reasonable bats, especially when one of those reasonable bats plays shortstop.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 16, 2008 8:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Who are the two reasonable bats? Furcal and Buck/Cunningham?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 8:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd guess PT's talking Furcal and Barton

since he’s talking about how a “big bat” and a black hole isn’t better than 2 reasonable bats.

I don’t know whether to consider Barton as “reasonable” though.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 8:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

and if Barton isn’t reasonable enough for you, send him to AAA for the season and sign a Hinske type freely available talent instead.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 16, 2008 10:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 10:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd sign Hinske for 3B insurance anyway.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2008 12:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Replace Hinske with Branyan and I am on board

I think he has more up side both offensively and defensively. I also think he would be cheaper.

"AN, Reducing Work Productivity since 2003", connie mack 11/06/08

by adragon on Nov 18, 2008 4:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

brian giles?

as it was reported by olney a few weeks ago, A’s were very close to getting him last august.

kind of like tejada, it would be a 1 yr thing…that padres team has its own issues w/ rebuilding and payroll and i’m sure it wouldnt take alot to get it hm and it fits into beane’s short term plan…all these guys holliday/tejada/giles etc + whoever else you got all out for 09 then re-evaluate who to keep or not…then jump back into the free agent market with potentially another 30+ mill to spend

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 16, 2008 6:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Where would Giles play though?

He’d be displacing one of the A’s OF bats, which are all better than the cesspool going on in the infield.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 7:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

RF

i like cunningham, but he spent barely a month in AAA, he could use more time

and buck could backup at either OF spot if needed

Link

1. Brian Giles (49 off, 7 def, 56 tot) — Most underrated player in the game? He posted a .400 OBP and slugged .450 in the cavernous dimensions of PETCO. He was one of the best fielding corner outfielders in the majors. And people are wondering if the Padres will pick up his $9MM option for 2009. Uh, that sort of production is worth $27MM on the free agent market.

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 16, 2008 8:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd take him on a one year deal, and if he rejects trades to anyone outside CA the A's have a shot

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 8:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't the Padres exercise his option? What would he cost in a trade?

I’m guessing at least one B prospect…

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 8:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If Giles is available for a B prospect,

I think the A’s should jump all over it. They can well afford to part with a B prospect and Giles is a very, very good hitter.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 16, 2008 8:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Call me optimistic

But I think Buck can and will bounce back to his 2007 level of production, making Giles unnecessary. I went over to Gaslamp Ball and asked if Giles could handle CF full time and so far the response has been negative.

Point is, I think the A’s have a comparable bat already on the roster and he plays the exact same position.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 16, 2008 9:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, he was.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 9:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So, if it means giving up a B level prospect and keeping Buck in AAA another season

meaning at age 24 he’s in MLB for good…

What’s the issue?

by mikev on Nov 16, 2008 9:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Buck's already 25.

He’d be back in MLB at the ripe age of 26.

And, it’ll probably cost more than a B level prospect to get Giles.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 9:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not if the Pads want to purge his salary and he rejects trades

to everyone else

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 9:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I would think he wants out of that cesspool

known as the 2009 Padres.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 10:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

In that case we have to hope he doesn't reject a trade to Oakland

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2008 12:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And, the upgrade wouldn't be as marked a one

as removing the black hole out of the A’s lineup would be.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 9:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Assuming Buck would be healthy

Which he hasn’t been, basically, ever since becoming a professional.

by mikev on Nov 16, 2008 9:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't say rolling the die with Buck was risk free

With Holliday in LF, RF is not the black hole that 1B, 3B and SS are. I’d prefer to focus resources on those areas, especially when the A’s have Buck and potentially Cunningham in place to cover.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 16, 2008 9:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So I'm guessing that you consider their defense close to a wash.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 9:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That probably would be inaccurate

but the prospect cost of getting Giles + the bat sitting on the bench in Buck == not worth it.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 9:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Makes sense to me.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 9:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But Giles is way better than Buck even if Buck is good

Giles is still a .400 OBP hitter, something Buck wasn’t even in 2007, and Giles still has as much or more power than one can expect from Buck. Plus Buck is a pretty (surprisingly) poor corner OFer and Giles is a good one.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 16, 2008 9:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Buck's around +5 in a corner spot on defense

Giles somewhere between +8–13 from what I gather.

For me, it would depend on the prospect the A’s would give up and what else could be added for 2009. It sure would help out Sweeney in center though.

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 16, 2008 9:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Buck as 4th OF doesn't fill me with horror. It's a good way for him to show

he can stay healthy without crippling the team if he doesn’t.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 9:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hold on a second

Buck is still headed towards his peak years, Giles is 38 next year. And yes, the 2008 version of Brian Giles was a very good player but the 2006 (771 OPS) and 2007 (weren’t) versions weren’t so great. That’s why I went asking about his ability to play CF, it would minimize the risk to him putting up another 2006/2007 type season. A 777 OPS is much more acceptable from a solid-average defensive CF the it is from an above average defensive corner OF.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 16, 2008 9:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

BRAA has him at 19, 14 and 46 RAA the past three years. I'd take 25 RAA

in RF on a one-year deal. That’s less than the straight average of the three even not giving greater weight to the most recent performance.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 9:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And what was Buck in 2007?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 16, 2008 10:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

17 in 82 games

so if we assume “fairly healthy” and that level of play, we’re probably talking about 25 BRAA, or about the same as Giles.

BTW, it won’t do to use unadjusted OPS for Giles. A 777 OPS from a plus defensive corner OF, in Petco, is All-Star level talent.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 16, 2008 10:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Using minorleaguesplits MLE calculator...

Going from PETCO to Oakland bumps his OPS about 10 points.

Injury risk is the big thing here. Buck has had issues, absolutely. Giles will be 38 and has been a little (much less than Buck) dinged himself the past couple years. I don’t think the difference in injury risk is as great as it seems.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 17, 2008 8:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure

A .787 OPS from a plus defensive corner OF, in Oakland, is All-Star level talent.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2008 9:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No, actually, the two are basically the same

+10 in a corner equals 0 in center.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2008 3:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I switched back to the real world

Where the A’s don’t appear to have a CF who could hit a 787 OPS and play average defense.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 17, 2008 8:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

0+1-1=0

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 18, 2008 1:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I still don't get it.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Nov 18, 2008 2:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

(me either)

I’m just trying to sound like one of those smarty pants “stat” guys.

by mikev on Nov 18, 2008 4:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

on his list

all nl west teams
atlanta

i think A’s have a very good shot

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 16, 2008 8:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The A's almost had him last August

Then Oakland went out and got Holliday in November.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 16, 2008 9:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh come on - the A's don't need TWO good hitters!

Silly A’s fan.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 16, 2008 9:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe he meant the A's need three good hitters.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 9:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you mind?

I’m trying to get the Cust fanatics to go after Nico.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 16, 2008 10:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cust fanatic here.

Where is the blashphemor?

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 10:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Follow the goat tracks

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 16, 2008 10:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

*finds the goat*

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 10:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Careful

Nico’s goats are… alluring

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 16, 2008 10:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Pfft

They’re just goats.

""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.

by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 10:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I encourage Nico

to not allow Blicks to get his goat.

"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL

by oblique on Nov 18, 2008 5:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Where do you play him?

Offensive holes at 3B, SS and 1B. Cust to DH at this point with Sweeney in CF, Holliday in LF and Buck in RF. I tend to think Buck will bounce back big in 2009, taking away from what Giles could bring next year.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 16, 2008 9:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or he misses 80 games and takes away from what Holliday could bring next year

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 9:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

my "all sellout 09" lineup

sorry barton/cunningham in AAA
buck to bench
the lineup is much older, but still productive
worst case, you blow it up after 09 and still have cash to spend in next yr’s free agency

Sweeney CF
Ellis 2b
Giles RF
Holliday LF
Giambi 1b
Tejada SS
Cust DH
Chavez 3b
Suzuki C

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 16, 2008 7:47 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I don't like Buck on the bench development-wise, he needs to be out there everyday, if healthy..

I think he came on nicely at the end of last season, and he shouldn’t be stashed on the bench.

That being said. If Buck/Sweeney was in fact traded FOR Giles, then it works. (not saying I agree with that trade scenario, though.)

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Nov 16, 2008 8:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think you can trade Sweeney unless you're satisfied with Davis Denorfia in CF

and I’m no.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 8:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah I like Sweeney, I don't want him going anywhere unless Cunningham REALLY pans out

and exceeds all expectations both defensively (enabling him to man CF) and offensively (enabling the replacement of Sweeney)

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Nov 16, 2008 8:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"if healthy"

thats been buck’s issue in the minors and now in the majors since being drafted

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 16, 2008 8:07 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

A's, Giants Battling For Furcal

A’s, Giants Battling For Furcal
By Tim Dierkes [November 17 at 1:26pm CST]

Mychael Urban of MLB.com talked to Rafael Furcal’s agent Paul Kinzer this morning. Kinzer says six teams have contacted him about Furcal since free agency opened Friday. The A’s have yet to make an offer, but Kinzer’s comments imply that the Giants might have. Both teams have very strong interest in the 31 year-old shortstop, who could sign before the winter meetings. When asked about the reported four-year, $40MM demand for Furcal, Kinzer said it was in the ballpark.

It’s hard to peg the other four suitors, but the Cubs, Blue Jays, and Orioles are possibilities. The Cardinals may be out, while the Royals, Tigers, and Dodgers may balk at the salary or term. Presumably the Braves are backing off given the state of the Jake Peavy talks.

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 17, 2008 11:35 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Who's this guy?

Seriously, if he’s a Bay area scribe I wouldn’t know him.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 17, 2008 11:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Is this article/Diary supposed to be a joke?

Because if it is decently funny. If not seems more than a bit spotty to me.

by jasonlbe on Nov 17, 2008 3:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It's 100% serious.

Pat Burrell is actually going to be signed by the entire National League. He’s going to rotate teams every couple days so that everybody gets a fair share.

by mikev on Nov 17, 2008 4:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs