Staturday: Sussing the Short Stop Strategies
Following the wild bitterly resented by any serious analyst success of the Projecting the Enemy series, I come now to bring you the next edition, dealing with the free agent shortstop class. Should the A's sign Furcal? Who's the best bargain? And what would the position look like if the A's don't sign anybody?
Warning: there is going to be a methodological shift in this post relative to the prior posts. Because this is about player acquisition and not about team projection, we need to compare players to replacement level, NOT to league average. (Replacement level hitting is about 20 runs below league average, although it's more like 30 runs for shortstops, who tend to suck at offense.) Average players have value, because there are not an unlimited number of them. So if you're wondering why Crosby used to be a minus and is now (barely) a plus, that's why.
If you're wondering where I'm getting these numbers, they're formed through a combination of: mental Marcels (a rough weighted average of the player's career with more emphasis given to the most recent years), the projections that have been released for the player (if any), a conversion scale which treats 5 OPS points as worth about 1 run over a full season, and fielding evaluations, principally Sean Smith's fielding projections and Revised Zone Rating (blame it on the fact that I'm too cheap/poor, depending on your opinion of me, to buy access to Plus/Minus).
I'll be dividing this into three sections: free agents, trade acquisitions, and stopgaps. To wit:
Stopgaps
Bobby Crosby (10 RAR offensively, 0 defensively) $5.25M
Hey, we know this guy. He sucks. OK, probably not as much as we like to think he does. But still-- 1 win above replacement is awfully mediocre. He's roughly getting paid what he's worth on the market.
Gregorio Petit (5 RAR offensively, 0 defensively) $400K
Petit isn't totally inept with the stick-- he's had a few solid seasons in the minors-- but his offense is very batting-average based and young players who rely on hitting for average often struggle in their first exposure to big league pitching. So I wouldn't expect wonders. We can safely ignore his MLB numbers from last year as a small-sample fluke.
Defensively, he has the potential to be quite a bit better than average, but right now he's somewhat erratic in his jumps and throws. Again, ideally this is something he could work out in time. I say ideally because Petit appears to be loathed by the front office, who basically did everything they could last season to prevent him from getting consistent playing time.
Cliff Pennington (0 RAR offensively, -5 defensively) $400K
I'm sorry, I simply do not see how Pennington's high minor league walk rates are going to translate to the majors. We've seen what happens to guys with no power-- outfielders cheat way in on them and pitchers just throw gas constantly. Next thing you know you're hitting .194 and getting a ticket back to the minors. Or playing 80 games for the Mariners, I guess. Well, that's not all that hard to do, really.
Free Agents
Rafael Furcal (35 RAR offensively, 0 defensively) 4 years/$55 million
Furcal has been a bit erratic in recent years, but prior to that he had a pretty consistent period of being average at the plate, adding a number of runs with his legs, and being solid in the field. I'm basically figuring that this will continue; he has a career EqA of .271 and if he's healthy there's no reason to expect him to be far from that mark. He is a health risk, so any putative contract needs to build in an insurance policy against a relapse of chronic back problems.
Orlando Cabrera (25 RAR offensively, 0 defensively) 2 years/$18 million
Cabrera's a pure batting-average hitter, with the result that he's had a few fluky-good and fluky-bad seasons while hovering somewhere around "sucky" overall, albeit better than an average shortstop. His glove is good enough to hold down shortstop for another few years, but starting to fray a little. Next year is going to be his age 34 season, so there's a serious collapse risk here.
Edgar Renteria (30 RAR offensively, -10 defensively) 2 years/$15 million
Renteria used to be quite a good player, but his range has really fallen apart lately in the field. At the dish, he has better secondary skills than Cabrera and can take a walk, but he was dismal in 2008 and may not ever recapture the form he showed in 2007 for Atlanta.
One thing I will say-- his AL/NL split looks much more interesting than it is. It simply is not the case that hitters can hit in one league and not in the other. Moving leagues might cost a guy a few runs here and there, but it does not turn him from All-Star to chump.
Cesar Izturis (5 RAR offensively, +10 defensively) 2 years, $5 million
Izturis probably flashes the best glove of any of the free agents this offseason. Unfortunately, the guy cannot hit at all. Neifi Perez, the bete noir of sabermetricians everywhere, has a career OPS some 30 points HIGHER than Izturis does.
Then again, he doesn't look much worse than Renteria and he's going to be a lot cheaper...
Adam Everett (-5 RAR offensively, +10 defensively) 1 year, $2 million
There was a time not long ago when Adam Everett was a fairly crummy but not unacceptable hitter who was also the best defender in all of baseball. His 2006 was interpreted by some fielding metrics as having been as much as 40 runs above average, which is the fielding equivalent of Bondsian. What happened? Well, the Oakland A's happened, actually. A pop-up (natch-- this is the A's we're talking about here), an ugly collision with Carlos Lee, a badly broken leg, and suddenly Everett's tenuous grip on MLB regular status was broken.
He's no longer a realistic option as a starter, in my opinion. His defense is still quality but no longer ridiculously insane, and he's lost what little juice his bat once had.
Nick Punto (10 RAR offensively, 0 defensively) 2 years/$6 million
The 2007 Twins made the mistake of giving Nick Punto 150 games of play; the 2008 Twins cut that back to 99. Note the correlation with those teams' respective winning percentages.
Someone's going to give him some money to be a utility man, but it doesn't need to be the A's.
Omar Vizquel (-10 RAR offensively, +10 defensively) Retire
In case you didn't notice the giant fork sticking out of Vizquel's back: he's done. His goose is cooked. He's no longer capable of making contact with a quality MLB fastball, and I think pretty much everyone recognizes this, even notorious veteranophiliac Brian Sabean. Signing Vizquel would be closer to necrophilia at this point.
Trade Targets
J.J. Hardy (40 RAR offensively, 0 defensively)-- 2nd year arb
Smith likes his defense more than many, but it's certainly no asset. Hardy has a nice bat for a shortstop, though. The problem with him is not his play, which is very good, it's what he's likely to cost. It's hard to see the Brewers moving him for a package that doesn't include one of Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson.
Clint Barmes (20 RAR offensively, +5 defensively)-- 1st year arb
Barmes is one of the most notorious hackers in baseball, but he has some power and knows his way around a glove, which is more than can be said for most of the guys on this benighted list. Surprisingly, he actually turns out to be a decent option. The problem is that the Rockies are liable to ask for something legitimate in trade for him, and he's just not worth that much. He'll be 30 next year.
Omar Quintanilla (10 RAR offensively, +5 defensively)-- 2nd year pre-arb
Hey, here's a blast from the past. The ex-A's farmhand has been viewed as a bust for some time, but has slowly but steadily improved his offense while projecting as a plus fielder. It would have been nice if Beane could have snagged him as a throw-in in the Holliday deal, but no such luck. He's younger than Colorado compatriot Barmes, so there's still some (OK, not much) upside left in him.
Chin-lung Hu (0 RAR offensively, +5 defensively) 1st year pre-arb
Hu delivered a shipment of Fail to the Port of Los Angeles in 2008. He's apparently had an issue with blurred vision; not mentioned by our sources is whether sunscreen was involved in any way... in any event, any A's trade for him needs to be predicated on the notion that they can fix this issue, because he was almost unbelievably bad at the plate this year.
Brent Lillibridge (0 RAR offensively, 0 defensively) 1st year pre-arb
It is, again, hard to overstate the magnitude of Lillibridge's offensive faceplant this season. A .630 OPS... in Triple A? Ouch. The good news is, the Braves can't seriously believe in him at this point... and with Yunel Escobar apparently sticking around, they have no particular reason to need him. Still, he's a reclamation project at this stage.
Miguel Tejada (30 RAR offensively, 0 defensively) 1 year/$13 million
Consecutive years with a sub-800 OPS make it fairly clear that Tejada isn't the player he once was (feel free to speculate as to why that is...), and his dipping power rate is troubling. Also problematic is the weird cratering of his walk rate last season, which dropped by half. As such, I find myself less optimistic about a bounce-back than I thought I would be. Still, at about a .750 OPS and still able to handle the position defensively, Tejada would be a plus option at shortstop.
John McDonald (-10 RAR offensively, +10 defensively) 1 year/$1.9 million
Don't blame me, grover asked me to look him over. McDonald is something of a uniquely bad hitter in that not only does he have no power and little speed, but he's a fly-ball hitter. In Major League Baseball, hitting non-home run flies is not a good strategy. Also not a good strategy: playing John McDonald in your lineup.
If anyone has any additional trade targets of choice, let me know and I'll run the numbers.
5 recs |
561 comments
Comments
Hey, "Staturday" is trademarked!
Seriously, nice breakdown. Thanks.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Nov 15, 2008 2:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
PT was contracted by myself to run this post
He has not violated any trademark laws.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 2:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool list
Lots of interesting stuff. Personally I am of the opinion that the A’s need to stabilize shortstop (aka stop the bleeding aka get Crosby to the bench) more so than acquire “the next great A’s shortstop” this offseason because there just ain’t much out there. I would be very much in favor of trying to acquire a defense-heavy young SS because D is still undervalued – hence more money to go after real bats.
Who does that mean? Hu?
by jdr on Nov 15, 2008 2:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
also FWIW
The A’s did spend money on SSs in this years draft – Christian and Coleman. Hopefully somebody steps up down there.
by jdr on Nov 15, 2008 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But those two are a couple years away
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 2:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well yeah
I’m just saying there’s a whole lot of slop available on the SS market right now and I’d rather see them get someone young and blah for cheap than moving on somebody older who might be better but is going to be overpaid. Use that money for a real bat. The next great A’s SS is coming from the farm any way we slice it, it’s just getting to be a very difficult position to fill any other way.
by jdr on Nov 15, 2008 2:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Young and blah?
Sounds like Crosby. Crosby isn’t bad so much as he’s not good. The transaction costs involved in most people on this list (either trade or FA salary plus dealing with Crosby’s $5M) are probably high enough we should just keep him.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 15, 2008 3:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No.....just no.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2008 6:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just saying I see 2-3 people on that list who are any kind of real improvement over Crosby
And Furcal is going to be too expensive.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 15, 2008 10:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I see a bunch of people who aren't that expensive to get. So get a bunch of
them and see who wins.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2008 10:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"defense-heavy young SS"
Petit?
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Nov 15, 2008 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Marco! Scutaro!
I’ve seen a couple of stats that showed he was actually a pretty valuable player last year. Any thoughts on that?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Nov 15, 2008 2:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Toronto has declared Scutaro their 2009 starting SS
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A notoriously bad defensive SS had a fluke good defensive year
Scutaro still isn’t a good everyday option for a team that wants to win lots of games.
by thejd44 on Nov 15, 2008 3:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dial's numbers thought he was the best overall SS in the AL last year.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2008 6:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Conclusion: Don't trust a soap.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 6:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dropped soap should be ignored?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 6:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As someone who has been in prison many, many times: Yes.
By the way, I was always innocent, consistently framed and then convicted by a corrupt jury. Except for that one murder out on the docks when I was given a fair trial by a jury of my piers.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 6:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't they want you to walk the plank?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 6:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The parrot talked them out of it
Har!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 7:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
'Twas an excellent dirge they played after the ceremony!
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of prison's and fishing....
I just found out a couple of nights ago that a human being can have entrails dangling 8 inches from their cheek. Who knew? It looked just like fish guts.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Nov 15, 2008 7:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"Cheek" can mean so many things
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose it would be
exponentially worse to have entrails dangling from those cheeks….especially in jail.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Nov 15, 2008 7:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Entrails?
How did someone’s intestine… know what? Nevermind.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 7:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to worry grover....
they sewed him up nicely. Course there was nerve damage so now the left side of his face droops. Gang politics are a real bitch.
Remember kiddies, when you join a prison gang, you’ve just introduced yourself to the people who are eventually going to try and kill you.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Nov 15, 2008 7:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Moral of the story?
Don’t get caught in the first place.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 7:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not an option.
One must put in the prerequisite time qualifications to be considered for status/advancement. Apparently it’s important.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Nov 15, 2008 7:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant, don't get caught committing the crime
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 8:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not just prison gangs.
The same can be said for street gangs.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 7:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to say, I really don't understand the concept of prison gangs
I mean, what’s the point? You’re in f***ing prison.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 11:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Might I suggest
NOT trying to figure this one out.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 11:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
More like "selective raping"
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 17, 2008 7:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I prefer pillaging
It’s slightly more politically correct and the incidence of STDs is lower.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 17, 2008 7:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what she said
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 17, 2008 8:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
It sounded more like “Baaaaaaaaa!!!!!”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 17, 2008 9:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pay more attention, Nico
I said “That’s what she said.”
She said, not sheep said.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 17, 2008 9:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lot's of "reasons"....
Originally it was a means to avoid predation back in the late fifties and early sixties. Nowadays, prison gangs control the activities of a lot of street gangs. It’s a lucrative source of income for high ranking gang members doing long stretches of time, although it’s a little more complicated than just that.
Think of it along the lines of a corporate structure, only on a much earthier, tribal scale.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Nov 16, 2008 8:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Gee... way to make prison gangs sound Green friendly!
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 16, 2008 8:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But he was consistently bad when he was with Oakland
I don’t know how Dial figures it out, but I wonder if splitting a lot of home games with David Eckstein made Scutaro look much better than he actually.
Or it could just be that he played only 56 games at short the whole year.
by thejd44 on Nov 15, 2008 11:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for doing this Paul
Although, based on this article I’d suggest editing Furcal’s section to 4 years/$44-48 million. $55 million seems high at this time.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 2:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm assuming they're paying him off to get injury insurance and no no-trade clause
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 2:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Still think it's a little high
But ’tis better to budget high and end up not spending it all then to do the opposite.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 2:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why buy injury insurance from the player?
Why not just buy it from an insurance company?
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 16, 2008 10:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
because
the players have more money than the insurance companies of america these days?
BB should send scouts to watch cricket players.
by alea iacta est on Nov 16, 2008 10:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not insurance per se
PT is referring to contract language that would protect the A’s should Furcal’s back fall apart. If he went down with the same back injury he had before such language would enable the A’s to opt out of the contract.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 16, 2008 10:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that.
But if you can pay $Xm to Furcal for such an opt-out clause, or you can pay $Xm to an insurer for a contract completion policy whereby if Furcal gets hurt and the A’s end up eating the contract the insurance company pays out the cost, the end result to the A’s is pretty much the same.
Given that it’s pretty standard to take out such a policy any time you sign an injury-risk player to a big contract, and given that it’s not so common for an athlete to agree to an Ordoñez style injury opt-out clause, why are we assuming that Furcal is likely to go the Ordoñez route? Has he or his agent suggested anything to that effect?
It just seems weird to me. You’re essentially asking Furcal to underwrite his own injury insurance. Why would he want to do that? And if he did sign such a clause, wouldn’t you as his agent advise him to take that extra money and go out and buy his own individual policy anyway?
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 16, 2008 11:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right, to an extent.
A player is definitely unlikely to ink an Ordonez type injury opt-out clause.
I mean, with one of those, Dusty Baker could screw a pitcher out of millions.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 11:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Works either way...
but there may be fewer conflict-of-interest/moral hazard situations arising if the deal doesn’t involve a third party.
Also might be cheaper.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 16, 2008 11:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You realize that involving a third party
is standard procedure, right?
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 16, 2008 11:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
YOU try telling that to my girlfriend
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Nov 17, 2008 2:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not for baseball contracts, it isn't
(see the Ordonez deal).
There’s also the cautionary tale of the Jeff Bagwell debacle, which forced the Astros to undergo a PR nightmare in order to collect their insurance money.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2008 10:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Logic Breakdown alert
“It isn’t standard procedure, they didn’t do it this one time.”
I guarantee that iglew can come up with many instances of contract insurance from third parties for each time you can find a player signing an Ordonez deal. (I can’t think of another deal like Ordonez’s off the top of my head at all)
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 17, 2008 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure that guarantee is good.
I would be at a disadvantage in such a naming game because any such clause in a player’s contract would be public information whereas an insurance policy bought by the team is private unless somebody blabs or it happens to come out in the news somehow.
I can think of only two such contracts that were publicized: Jeff Bagwell’s (with its notorious expiration date) and Albert Belle’s. If PT were to come up with two more Ordoñez-like contracts, I’m not sure I could dig up another to match it.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 17, 2008 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ordoñez and how many others?
Maybe half a dozen?
On the other hand, you have insurance companies that create such packages and agents who specialize in selling them. Why would such a product exist if no one is buying it?
If you’re saying that it’s common practice in other professional sports but not in baseball, then you need an explanation for why the owner’s motivation would be different for baseball. I think the more likely explanation is that baseball is more secretive than other sport and we’re less likely to hear about them, just like how in baseball we have less access to various other financial information.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 17, 2008 10:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You know, you're probably right
I suspect there are more third-party insurance contracts than teams let on.
With that said, at the very least we can say that there are a variety of ways in which the team and Furcal could structure an insurance policy. I like this one: Team gives Furcal a generous deal but is allowed to void the contract if he hurts his back again, then Furcal takes out an insurance policy on HIMSELF to guarantee himself a large portion of the payday if he does get hurt. (I know that players can do this, because college basketball has a rule specifically allowing amateur players to do it.)
That way the decision on whether the insurer or the insured collects is made by what amounts to a third-party to that relationship.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2008 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of player insurance
Am I mis-remembering that there was talk of an insurance policy on Chavez when he signed his big deal? Does that mean the A’s have been collecting on that insurance all this time he’s been injured, thus is that money essentially “freed up” for other player expenses?
How does injury insurance work—is it pro-rated per day missed due to injury, or how would it be calculated?
"Don't be an ass!" --Bill King
by batgirl on Nov 17, 2008 12:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re Chavez
We’ve speculated about it here on AN. My own opinion is that the team must have some sort of policy, though I would guess it has not been triggered yet since Chavvy’s injuries have not been career-ending (yet).
No one releases terms, so we don’t know the specifics. The basic idea is that a team gets a contract completion policy. If for some reason the player becomes unable to perform but the team is still on the hook for the rest of his contract, the insurance company would pay out the remainder of the contract. What all qualifies would be specified in the policy language (and, possibly, litigated).
There was a big fuss about this over Jeff Bagwell a few years back, because his policy was not renewed, so if he "became unable to perform" before the policy ran out, the team would get a big payout, but if the triggering event happened after the policy ran out, they got nothing. After the previous season everyone knew Bagwell was hurt but no one knew how bad. The policy ran out some time around March, so the team wanted Bagwell to show up for spring training so they could see if he could still play, and if he couldn’t they could declare his injury career-ending and collect on the policy. Bagwell didn’t want to show up just to be cut and told the team, "if you want to cut me, just do it," so he refused to show up. But the team couldn’t just cut him because then they’d have no insurance claim, so the whole thing was turning into a public relations nightmare. In the end, Bagwell did not come but the team filed the claim anyway, the insurance company denied it, the team sued, and it was settled out of court for an undisclosed amount.
For a player, it’s just like regular disability insurance. You negotiate a policy based on anticipated future earnings. The player’s contract with the team typically includes being paid for the term of the contract regardless, so if a player buys his own policy it’s for anticipated earning beyond the end of the contract. (For example, if a guy is in his last year, but is still playing well and expects to make big bucks as a free agent, he would insure against income for years after he becomes a free agent.) Presumably if he has an Ordoñez-type clause, he could insure against the possibility of that clause coming into effect.
If you google professional athlete insurance, you’ll find several agencies advertising this stuff, with brief descriptions of the policies available.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 17, 2008 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
interesting--thanks for the info
It seems like something that would be really hard to collect on, especially if it must be career ending. For most players (at least A’s players!) the injuries are more nagging/operable problems that take you off the field for a certain amount of time, but the thought is eventually you’d be back, so there’s no way to get compensation for the lost time.
"Don't be an ass!" --Bill King
by batgirl on Nov 17, 2008 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's the nature of high-risk insurance
Of course it’s hard to collect on. If it weren’t, there’d be no advantage in buying a policy.
You buy a policy against a small chance of a large hit. Like if you sign so-and-so for $50 million, and then tomorrow he gets hit by a bus and is paralyzed for life. That’s too big a risk to assume on your own.
Everyday stuff like you sign a guy for $2 million and he spends the year on and off the DL, you just absorb that yourself and take it into account when negotiating the contract. You don’t turn to an insurance company unless the risk is too large to assume yourself. If you insure against risks that are small and probable, you’re just going to lose money.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 17, 2008 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell happened to Jeff Keppinger this year?
Wasn’t he supposed to be, like, good?
by mikev on Nov 15, 2008 2:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
He's not really a shortstop
If anyone actually gives him a job again, I would expect him to bounce back— he had one of those BABIP implosions, a la Swisher— but he really should be playing second base. I’d still take him over Eckstein any day of the week.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 2:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Question on the defensive numbers
In the team projection series, the +/- defensive numbers were above average. In this one you’ve changed the offensive numbers to above replacement, but the defensive numbers are still above average, correct?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 2:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Generally speaking, average defense is considered to be replacement level, although it wouldn’t make any difference if you called hitting and fielding replacement levels for shortstop -25 and -5 instead of -30 and 0.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 2:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Alright, just wanted everything to be clear
Guess the least I could do is give you a Rec for doing this…
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 2:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why not go for broke?
They aren’t SS but we’ve been talking about them a bunch…
Mark Teixeira
Adam Dunn
Pat Burrell
Jason Giambi (1st base version)
Juan Rivera
Bobby Abreu (Why not?)
Randy Johnson
Derek Lowe
Brad Penny
Shnits & Giggles Division:
CC Sabathia
Ben Sheets
AJ Burnett
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 2:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
"Broke" is exactly what I'll be if I spend all my time on this stuff instead of school work
Maybe next week…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 2:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
I’ve been meaning to sign up to Bill James site, he’s got projected OPS for 2009… maybe I’ll take a stab at some projections along this line for immediate gratification.
Can’t tell you how glad I am to be done with school. And the only good thing about my wife going back to school was my getting to brag about sleeping with a coed.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 3:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"...getting to brag about sleeping with a coed"
I don’t like you.
Goddamn back surgeries taking out all the fun of school…
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 4:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lucky for me I've got a cute coed at my side
I don’t care if you like me!
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 5:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The word isn't "coed"
It’s “tranny”.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Funny
The phrase “Nico’s head on a pike” suddenly springs to mind.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
grover, just the fact that you look at your wife and see a coed is great.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Nov 15, 2008 5:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It would be better if those two things happened at the same time
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True, if he sees a cute coed and then his wife walks in... OUCH
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Nov 15, 2008 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll say
My wife and a coed at the same time? Yeah, works for me.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 5:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if your wife reads AN....
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 5:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His future ex-wife does
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It would serve your best interests
if for the rest of the night you referred to her as my beautiful and charming future ex-wife
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would he do that?
Is your wife a goat?
by thejd44 on Nov 15, 2008 11:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually... she might
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ouch?
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 6:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But just how ouch?
Brett Myers ouch or Lorena Bobbitt ouch?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just ouch.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 6:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Like...
How many different uses can a person find for duct tape, fish hooks, lemon juice and a ball peen hammer?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 6:09 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Holy shit.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 6:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Plenty
Are we talking legal or are you including illegal as well?
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
by DMOAS on Nov 15, 2008 7:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There are legal uses for that list?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 8:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
barely
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
by DMOAS on Nov 15, 2008 9:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Go evil or go home
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 10:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't...there are lemon-scented fish bits duct-taped to my house...I'm scared...
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Nov 15, 2008 11:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fish bits?
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 9:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I want my own cute coed.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 5:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have been wondering about Ryan Church
Because of his concussion the Mets might undervalue him…and he’d be a good addition for Our A’s. What do you think Grover and AN folks?
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 5:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We can never have too many OFers with concussions!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Before that concussion...
he had blossomed into a fine hitter and a really good fielder. And Hey aren’t you supposed to be getting ready to get dunked or something?
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 5:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Travis Buck should at least match Church's production
Buck’s already on the roster and costs less.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 5:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Buck...
Is not as good as the AN faithful think IMO. and He’s always injured.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're comparing Buck to a guy who might be discounted because of head trauma
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 5:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nico?
Did you overpay for those eggs? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Nov 15, 2008 5:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wkalli dkidps froomz?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not yet...
But I do know what he looks like and where he’ll be tomorrow from 10 AM to 12 PM
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 5:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That whole Fanpost was a decoy
I’ll be at the Midget Tranny Convention trying to pick up giruys.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's very interesting Nico
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 5:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good thing there are Tranny Goats... cause we would never see you again Nico
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Nov 15, 2008 5:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Guys recover...
and Church was very promising.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 5:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's certainly worth a look on Sunday
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bucks about 5 years younger then Church!
Shouldn’t everything you just said about recovering from injury apply to Buck as well?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 5:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would think so ...
but Buck had so many little traumas…I lost count.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 5:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Buck deserves another chance
But if it makes you feel better, you can dream about the A’s signing FA Juan Rivera. He’s not quite a Church but he is a former Angel.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 5:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Gak. I would actually opt to play Cust in the OF
if the A’s had Rivera.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he deserves another chance too.
He can prove himself on the Rivercats.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 5:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His 2007 season begs to differ (with the first point)
I’ll grant you the second.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 15, 2008 5:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's face it, though -
Buck’s 2008 season confused everyone who is smart enough to be utterly baffled by the bizarre. Or maybe I was drunk and he hit .276/.353/.441.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well he did have a 95 OPS+
So it’s not like he’s the second coming of Emil Brown or anything
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 15, 2008 10:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And already has the requisite concussion on his resume
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hurling him straight into action next year?
Hm. Not optimistic. He’s never played above AA.
I’d call him 25 RAR on offense, -5 on defense.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all for letting Pennington and Petit play SS this year and spend the money on a bat like Dunn at 1B for a couple years.
Let’s let the young guys in our system work their way up and not spend a ton of money on a average player or a health risk (Furcal). We have used the DL way to much to invest more into that.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Nov 15, 2008 3:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Crosby >>>> Pennington, probably > Petit as well
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 15, 2008 3:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Someone likes you PT
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 3:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
No kidding
I’m in virgin territory here!
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 3:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to the Front Page
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"here"?
Did you overpay for those eggs? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Nov 15, 2008 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bravo.
Minimal yet sufficient to take digs at PT individually and AN as a group.
Possibly your finest non-baseball moment.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 5:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't he mean "hear"?
Here hear!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that comment is funny two
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 15, 2008 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Its funny irregardless
of weather I could care less. Oops, I mean fewer.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you mean "regardless"
drop your “eyer” (ir).
Officially awaiting the 2009 season.
by One won lost won on Nov 15, 2008 9:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I donut think you understand whether Nico are serious our not
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 15, 2008 10:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nico doesn't no either
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 10:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure he does
Eye’ve herd him talk about the Bradley trade several times.
"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty
by 5Aces on Nov 17, 2008 10:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Congratulations
You’ve just hit an all-time low.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no, I haven't hit grover yet
Did you overpay for those eggs? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Nov 15, 2008 5:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And Sal's below... well, everyone else
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 5:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Except the midget trannies
That’s a tie.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, this is a tie:
And an all-time low.
Did you overpay for those eggs? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Nov 16, 2008 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
to fill in
Zobrist hit .318/.428/.459 in the minors. 250 walks vs 194 strikeouts. Little home run power, but good gap power. Was always old for the level. Wasn’t drafted until he was 23 and was coming out of the NAIA. Houston was plenty conservative with him (wisely.) Traded to the Rays in the Aubrey Huff deal. Rays essentially skipped him past AAA last year (80 PAs in 06) and installed him as the starting shortstop. He bombed bad (.224/.260/.311 in 183 ab.) After being sent down last year (age 26 season btw), he hit .279/.403/.455 in about 250 plate appearances. This year, playing in a utility role for the Rays he hit .253/.339/.505 in about 225 PAs. 12 home runs, he showed power that was long expected. He’s a big kid 6’3 and about 215 these days, and it was thought that power would come one day. Defensively, he’s not a wizard. He holds his own. League average or slightly below. In an ideal situation, he’d be moving over to 3rd in a couple years. Also has some history of back trouble.
He’d be a lot cheaper than Hardy (though with the Rays, he may not come that cheap), and a lot better than most of the other players on the list. This guy is a legit big league hitter, most likely above league average. Also so early in the process, he could man SS or 3B for a while.
by AgitationStation on Nov 15, 2008 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hafta disagree with part of this
Zobrist was never expected to hit for power. BA (and the scouting community) rated his HR pop as below-average and Sickels said his swing was good for doubles, not home runs.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 4:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sickels probably never saw him play
Houston player development department definitely thought power was coming. BA, fair enough. Whether they expected it or not, it’s there now.
by AgitationStation on Nov 15, 2008 4:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His defense at SS is not good.
He’s better in a corner IF spot.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 4:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll say
He’s projected at -14 runs at shortstop.
Not an option.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 5:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
...
Admittedly, that doesn’t look good, but he only played 35 games at SS. Too small a sample to get an accurate statistical rating (either direction).
By the end of the season Maddon was quoted as being pleased by Zobrist’s defense and his rate of improvement. Defense comes quicker than hitting, but even the best infielders do have adjustments to make and need some development at the big league level. Put the guy on Oakland’s slow turf, and with the A’s coaching, and he could well end up perfectly average. His glove was not looked at as a minus in any way on his trip through the minors. Hard to believe he’s collapsed on that side of the ball. Maybe not though. Crosby’s defensive demise was certainly sudden.
Let’s not forget though that he hit well enough last year that his weak glove didn’t compromise his overall value. It’s pick your poison with all of these guys. I’d prefer a guy with real upside. And a player who can be moved over to 3b if SS doesn’t work (and at worst can supersub). It’s not like the A’s don’t have need there too.
by AgitationStation on Nov 15, 2008 7:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He was a clusterf*** at the position in 2007, too
This is not new information. Moving him OFF of shortstop, along with Brendan Harris and the other incompetents they had out there that year, is one of the major reasons why Tampa’s defense improved so dramatically in 2008.
Look, everything I’ve ever read about Zobrist’s defense, be it scouting-based, stats-based, fan-based, whatever, suggests that voluntarily playing him at shortstop is the equivalent of voluntarily hitting yourself in the head with a hammer.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 7:39 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Claw
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 11:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're killing the continuity of the thread
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 11:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's lemon juice & fish hook him!
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
by DMOAS on Nov 16, 2008 10:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, it is tough to find a good SS
Looking at these players I would be okay with acquiring Furcal because it’s not my money, but if the A’s can’t snag him I would probably just stick with Crosby, Pennington, and Petit.
by DiegoAsFan on Nov 15, 2008 3:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Is Cardenas being considered, or is he mainly working on 2B and 3B?
Either way, a projection on him after his full year would be interesting, I you got the time…
Thanks Paul
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Nov 15, 2008 3:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Projection on him is "suck"
He’s not ready, sorry.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cardenas is back playing 2B in the AFL
I continue to hope for a move to 3B.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 3:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
could this be yet another sign the A's are banking on a healthy Chavez?
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Nov 15, 2008 4:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he ultimately ends up back at second, with Weeks in CF for the 20?? A's
He just hasn’t shown the power he’s supposed to, not my ideal 3B.
by NateHST on Nov 15, 2008 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Adrian's at 3B and Weeks at 2B, and generic in CF, how is that worse than Adrian at 2B,
Weeks in CF and generic at 3B? Aren’t 3B and CF basically similar on the defensive spectrum? Isn’t the more important thing who plays their position the best? By the time we have to worry about this maybe Dixon will take charge of CF. I don’t see anyone similar taking charge of 3B.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2008 6:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well my master plan would be to flip Holliday
for a guy like Brett Wallace or Daniel Murphy or a player like that to a team like the Mets when the media is on their asses because they’re three games out…
by NateHST on Nov 15, 2008 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Brett Wallace is, speaking approximately here, 9470129401927 times better than Daniel Murphy
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 7:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wallace will never play third.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Nov 15, 2008 9:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even Adam Melhuse has played third
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2008 10:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even I have played third
That’s the joy of beer-league softball
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 15, 2008 10:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Me too. I did it not having fielded a ground ball in 15 years.
Not pretty.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2008 10:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He seems to be doing it in AA...
From watching him in the CWS, while he’s undoubtedly chunky, he’s not immobile. He made a couple of nifty plays, including one in particular where he caught a ball which curled over the bag into foul territory and threw across his body in time to get the runner.
I doubt he’s a plus defender, but he wasn’t Ryan Braun-esque either.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 11:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. Read a couple of scouting reports
that said he has quick feet. He’s like an offensive lineman. Real big… but can move.
by NateHST on Nov 15, 2008 11:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sickels watched him in the AFL
He was surprised by how well Wallace managed around the bag. He could be an average defender at 3rd base as long as he loses ZERO athleticism. Sickels made it a point to emphasize that should Wallace lose even a quarter step he’d have to move off the hot corner.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 11:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Guys who are that big at age 22...
…I just find it doubtful that he won’t lose a step before long. But if he can do it, hey, more power to him.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Nov 16, 2008 8:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would be, basically, astounded if Rashun Dixon plays a game in the major leagues before September 2012
i.e. almost 4 full seasons from now. He’s an unpolished 17-year old. I don’t really see a good argument for even putting him in Low A next season.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 7:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Will you wear panties and a bra if he does?
I’m using a Billy Beane technique here – if I stock up on low-odds promises, there’s a chance one of them will stick. Maybe Sweeney OPSes .850 one year, maybe Dixon gets a cup of coffee in July, 2012.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 7:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure what's more disturbing here --
PT wearing a bra and panties, or Nico asking him to do so.
by mikev on Nov 16, 2008 12:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't that the time Cardenas and Weeks are going to be good too?
if at all
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2008 10:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt that... I'm expecting them to be starting for the A's in 2011
Maybe 2012. Whereas unless Dixon suddenly turns into the next Andruw Jones, it’s hard to see him in the lineup before 2013 at the earliest.
The reason why Dixon is so exciting to me is that he did what he did this year basically without knowing how to play baseball at all— totally on raw talent. That said… he doesn’t know how to play baseball at all. It’s going to take a good while to turn him into a quality player.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 11:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
CF and 3B are not remotely similar on the defensive spectrum
Not in terms of positional value, skills required to play each, etc.
by thejd44 on Nov 15, 2008 11:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The second point is obvious, can you elaborate on the first?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2008 11:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Positional value?
I think the old “defense up the middle” adage is true. More balls are hit to 2B, SS, CF than other positions, so a team should have its best defenders there.
Tango, for some reason I don’t quite understand, gives the same positional adjustment for 2B, 3B, and CF.
I’m probably wrong on this. I admit I said positional value just assuming that everybody weighted CF/2B more than 3B. I’m shocked to see that’s not so.
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2008 3:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A very bad sign!!!!!!
The Giants are going heavy after Furcal. Do you recall the last guy we had to out bid the giants for? Loaiza. That is bad sign #1. Bad sign #2 Sabean is a idiot when it comes to free agents so he will most likely over pay for Furcal. Rowand overpaid. Zito overpaid. Benetiz overpaid. and the list goes on.
by Arcman on Nov 15, 2008 4:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
If the Giants are going after him, he's a bad signing.
and needs to be stayed away from.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bonds wasn't a bad signing
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2008 6:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bonds is the exception to most rules.
Don’t sign old sluggers who are poor defenders. Exception: Barry Bonds.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 6:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It would be Heavenly if ...
Billy Beane shattered the collusion, broke through the Bonds Blacklist, and gave him the DH role. Cust is an adequate fielder, and with Holliday in the lineup, we’ll have a powerfully scary offense. Even an old Bonds is better than 99% of the sluggers out there. And I believe given one more season, he’d rise to the occasion.
Holy Toledo!!!
by Johnny U on Nov 15, 2008 7:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How do you know that Bonds is 99 % better?
He hasn’t played for an entire season! And he’s really getting so old! I think it was stinky too that Selig and MLB blacklisted the guy but I am not so sure he’d play well now. Of course the price would be right.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 7:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He'd probably come for cheap enough
that he’d be a positive.
And he’s got something to prove/an axe to grind.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 7:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would love Bonds on the team..
if he could equal his 2007 numbers. He’d be a big plus. I am doubting that after a year off he could do that. But who knows? and I’d love it as a big FU to selig and fans all over baseball who really believe that their own players were steroid free and that steroid use wasn’t the norm in baseball.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 7:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I really think Bonds can put up a monster offensive season
Maybe not mimic his 2007, but I could see a 20-25HR, .400 OBP out of him. And, Cust and Holliday would see better pitches because pitchers are VERY scared of Bonds.
For the cost, he’s worth it.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 8:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And more belated reasons for Bonds
1. He is THE BIGGEST draw, besides winning. This guy is a Bay Area hero.
2. He sends a message out there to FAs the A’s might be interested in after the 2009 season that this is a team that is committed to winning and will do whatever it takes to win.
3. Signing him immediately catapults the A’s from one of the worst offenses in the league to one of the best.
4. Even if Bonds is washed up, pitchers are still scared as hell of him. In any late inning, clutch situation, he will probably be getting walked. You don’t fuck with the best pure, sheer hitter of our generation. Period. And, Bonds has an axe to grind with EVERYONE: the media, MLB, the other teams that didn’t sign him, etc.
5. Bonds has ZERO effect on the A’s 2010 and beyond. If the A’s add to the cake by signing a FA pitcher, I could see them being one of the best teams in the league and a near-lock to win the AL West. They have a great defensive outfield, and great defense out of their middle IF and 3rd base. Cust will probably be Ryan Howard at 1B. Which is bad, but will be mitigated by having THE BEST DH in all MLB. And Cust will provide adequate offense for a 1B.
The A’s will either have an above average offensive player or a good defender at EVERY position, with the exception of SS and maybe CF.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 8:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a lot of faith to put in Bonds
At his age, with deteriorating knees, and an entire year away from the game I’d be a lot more concerned about Bonds abilities. I certainly would say he would be the best DH in baseball, it would be pretty amazing if he could be even be an average DH numbers wise.
by DiegoAsFan on Nov 15, 2008 9:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if he doesn't slug much
He will put up a .400 OBP from all the walks he will be getting because he’s well…Bonds.
And, the A’s can just release him if he sucks/is a distraction/etc.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 10:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You have stars in your eyes.
If Barry whiffs a bunch at the plate…he won’t get the walks like he used to.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 10:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good reasons all...
IF BONDS IS STILL A GOOD HITTER. That’s what I am worried about.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 10:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If he sucks the A's can release him.
He’s not going to be expensive. The A’s can eat the losses.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 10:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm only for signing him if he comes cheap.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 10:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Understood.
And I do think he’s worth a look …since we can sign him for the min.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 10:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But remember that he will block other guys...
So he needs to be good …pretty much like immediately.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 10:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So, nobody else realizes that Bonds is supposedly going to be in court this season?
by mikev on Nov 16, 2008 12:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
fuck...oops
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 1:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What, we're going back the dropped soap portion of the thread?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 16, 2008 6:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really want to?
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 7:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to worry,
Federal prisons are definately a two tier system.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Nov 16, 2008 8:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just trying to keep track of where we are
This thread has produced a tangent or three
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 16, 2008 8:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Somewhere between hot coeds and federal prisons.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 9:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And grover's wife.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 16, 2008 9:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Uhh, yes plz
Stick Cust at 1B, Holliday at LF, and Bonds at DH.
THROBBING POWER.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 7:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mark Ellis might collapse by mid May
if he has to cover the entire right side of the infield.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 7:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The offensive upgrade by having Bonds at DH
would outshadow the defensive downgrade of having Cust at 1B, which isn’t really that much of a premier defensive position anyways.
I don’t think Cust would be that much worse than Ryan Howard at 1B, keeping in mind that LF is a harder position to play than 1B.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 8:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd sooner put Cust in LF, Holliday in RF,
and Barton at 1B. Might as well get the good defense at 1B when your lineup is suddenly set.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 9:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Be careful about saying the phrase "throbbing power"
You won’t believe what happened to Nico’s goat the last time someone said that.
by danmerqury on Nov 16, 2008 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bonds could never "suck."
A bad Bonds is probably just as good as most major league .265 hitters. Plus, and this is only rumored (his private life is so highly protected), he takes BP almost every single day and is keeping in “spring” shape. His “eye” and bat speed alone would drive the ball. They go into that Bonds shift and takes a pitch or two and suddenly a man on first is standing on second. He has such an axe to grind and he wants to do it in the Bay Area. Money is not his motive, long tape measure home runs are. RBIs. Lots of them. And a World Series ring. All I’m saying is that Billy Beane could do something great not only for the A’s but also for baseball. Giving one of it’s all-time greatest hitters a chance. And by doing so, he’ll fill every seat … and give us the punch to beat the Angels.
Holy Toledo!!!
by Johnny U on Nov 16, 2008 3:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That depends on if he gets prison time and where he serves it
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 16, 2008 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dublin Correctional Facility.
It’s a nearby Federal prison. Perhaps he could be placed on a work release program? Away games would be problematic.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Nov 16, 2008 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Uhhh... well, you see
I was kind of referring to the “Bonds could never suck” portion of the post
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 16, 2008 5:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I laughed very hard there grover. Well played sir.
"It wasn't the snooze. Everybody thinks it was the snooze. It was the volume." - the one and only WaddellCanseco
by notsellingjeans on Nov 16, 2008 8:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rowand wasn't an overpay
Despite his poor 2008 second half, he’s been, at worst, equal to Torii Hunter (and better than Eric Byrnes) over the past few years. He got way less than Hunter and a bit more than Byrnes on the open market.
The only way it’s possibly an overpay is in the number of years.
by thejd44 on Nov 15, 2008 11:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hunter was a ridiculous overpay
The fact that Rowand was paid somewhat less doesn’t make his contract good… just less bad.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2008 11:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So then Byrnes was an overpay, too, right?
Because he’s nowhere near the level of those guys, and while his deal is 2 years shorter, he’s getting $10 mil per year and Rowand is getting $12.
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2008 3:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
by DMOAS on Nov 16, 2008 10:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So if EVERY center fielder is "overpaid"
Doesn’t that mean none of them are? I mean, if they’re all signing for “over-market” prices, perhaps we’ve all underestimated the actual market.
by thejd44 on Nov 17, 2008 12:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the reference is to the "5M per win" market value.
by mikev on Nov 17, 2008 7:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
But that value is irrelevant if it doesn’t reflect reality. It isn’t like there’s any statistical rationality behind the $5M number.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 17, 2008 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not something pulled from thin air.
I think it’s approximately the average salary per season, per win added, when taking all players into account.
The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.
by rebus on Nov 17, 2008 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But wasn't it established several years ago?
If it’s updated annually, then I’m wrong.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 17, 2008 12:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's adjusted seasonally.
I think the precise figure many were using last year was 4.85M, and the market seemed to trend upward by some small percentage each year… Anyway, 5M, while probably not spot on to the nickel, is very close.
The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.
by rebus on Nov 17, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes it is
Dave Cameron at FanGraphs has estimated it at 5.5M per win entering this offseason, assuming typical 10% inflation from last year’s market.
He’s an extremely reliable source.
"I'll make a list for the record. These people should be trusted: Sal, andeux, rfloh, danny...and no one else. Certainly not me. And even extra super-certainly not NSJ."
by notsellingjeans on Nov 17, 2008 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Carlos Beltran isn't overpaid.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2008 10:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's a non sequitur
Sizemore is still an arbitration-years player; his salary is artificially depressed.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2008 11:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Codswallop!
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Nov 17, 2008 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hogwash!
"I'll make a list for the record. These people should be trusted: Sal, andeux, rfloh, danny...and no one else. Certainly not me. And even extra super-certainly not NSJ."
by notsellingjeans on Nov 17, 2008 4:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did i miss something
or is there some reason to think that the a’s might be considering throwing this big a contract at furcal or anyone else?
"...in baseball you wear a cap." -- george carlin
by Hot Cup Joe on Nov 15, 2008 4:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Just the news reports saying the A's were pursuing Furcal
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And that they gave up some future for Holliday
Which is kinda silly if the plan is to do nothing else.
by thejd44 on Nov 15, 2008 11:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not if he can acquire a better future in trade than the one they gave up
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2008 11:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That would be a remarkably stupid gamble to make
and if that’s “plan A” Beane deserves to be fired. It would mean he’s just playing egotistical games to see if he can one-up himself instead of building a competitive team either by rebuilding with prospects or rebuilding with established players.
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
by DMOAS on Nov 16, 2008 10:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's only stupid if there were reasonable offers for Street and Carlos in terms of
prospects. If the offers were not valuable, it’s not much of a gamble. The main loss is the extra salary paid to Holliday.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2008 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So, In Conclusion....
In the seemingly likely event that another GM over-pays for Furcal, the only logical move, short of a Tejada for nothing good trade, seems to be to hope that someone steps up. I would truly hate Crosby if he played well and got a big contract out of it.
www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.
by ChadGod on Nov 15, 2008 5:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Punto
Wasnt cut back to 99 games, he was injured, when healthy he played everyday.
by pbra17 on Nov 15, 2008 5:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Lucky for the Twins
!
www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.
by ChadGod on Nov 15, 2008 5:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Had he missed another week...
Maybe they would have made the playoffs
www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.
by ChadGod on Nov 15, 2008 5:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Cabrera would be my back up SS if no Furcal
He plays very good defense and is ok with the bat. Could be had for cheap but does bring some past history of attitude. 2 year deal could bring him in at around 7 to 8 million.
by Arcman on Nov 15, 2008 5:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
But only on a 1-2 year deal.
Again, hope that the FA market is reflected on by the economy.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 5:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
**as in the economy reflects on the FA market.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 5:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think O. Cabrera is getting too little consideration
As a two-year stopgap he could provide a little more offensive than Crosby has and about the same defense, while doing the little things to help you instead of the little things to hurt you. In other words, Cabrera is no statistical wonder, but has several skills that can help a team. The A’s could do worse for the next two seasons while the pickins are so slim. I like the idea a lot more than I like the idea of Renteria.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate Crosby slightly less than the idea of Renteria
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2008 6:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cabrera will not be had for cheap
There are a lot of teams looking for a SS and when Furcal’s off the market the losers of that run will swoop after Cabrera.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 5:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True, true.
He’s a “valued commodity”.
If the Giants don’t throw massive dollars at Furcal, I see them way-overpaying for Cabrera.
If something does happen and Cabrera is available on a Kyle Lohse-esque deal, the A’s should jump on it though.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 5:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would think he'd cost significantly less than Furcal, though
Maybe 2/17 ish instead of 4/42 ish. Those commitments are pretty different.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be surprised if Cabrera got less than a 3 year deal
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 5:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, maybe 3/25 then?
Given the lack of injury history, I’d still say that’s a lot different from 4/42 with risk of injury.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think there's enough insanity in the market that he gets a 4 year deal
Plus, if his agent is smart he’ll wait to push Cabrera until after Furcal sets the market.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2008 5:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I really wouldn't give Cabrera a 3/25 deal.
Type of player who’s poised to decline, already 34 years of age, could fall hard.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 5:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OK then, back to my original thought:
Manny at SS and just really go for offense.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Show no mercy on those slegnA pitchers
Lackey might even start crying
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 5:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
A 2 year deal. So far not much of a mention of him so could Beane be pulling a fast one by talking up Furcal and signing Cabrera cheap?
by Arcman on Nov 15, 2008 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That sounds very Beane-like.
Talk up Furcal, then let the Giants and Brian Sabean sign him for 4/60 and get all of 100 games out of him for the entire deal, then snatch up Cabrera.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cabrera sucks
And I think his defense is horribly overrated. UZR has never thought he was more than ok.
Offensively, I don’t know if he’d outperform Crosby.
by thejd44 on Nov 15, 2008 11:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we forget
When the SS position was somone who batted before the pitcher. Back when I started going to games, yes pre DH days. The SS was mostly a poor hitter, yes there were exceptions, but they were hired for their glove. Campy was an exception, but until Tejada there was a lack of offense. Are we going back to this trend? It would seem to me that the 40 HR shortstop may be a thing of the past. So do we focus on some range and good arm, or look at the bat. As much as I like offense, I think we need some leather over there.
Stomp,em, stomp the piss out of em.Then pound the budweiser after the game. Joe Schultz Seattle Piolts Mgr 1969
by billyball1981 on Nov 15, 2008 5:34 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
That's the reason to sign a Dunn or Giambi
If you get little power at 1B you need more at SS, but if you have more at 1B you need less at SS. More generally, you can go for strong defense up the middle (2B, SS, CF) if you get enough production at the corners of the infield and the outfield.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The SS position should be filled by a guy who gets ON base.
Then the big guys hit well behind him.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 5:39 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Or a #9 hitter who saves tons of runs
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Used to be ok to be that.
Baseball is changing.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 5:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
IMO, it still is.
A run saved is a run scored.
A guy who’s 0 runs offensively, and +14 runs defensively, is worth the same as a guy who’s +28 runs offensively, and -14 runs defensively.
""Bobby Crosby’s Release" - Sounds like a good title to Mr. Crosby’s first work in his next career now that we know he can’t play baseball." - Joey C.
by Blicks on Nov 15, 2008 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah saving a lot of runs is valuable.
You are very right.
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 5:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You can SAVE them?
OK we should definitely start saving them – especially those days we score, like, 14 points to their 2!
-Cindi
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2008 5:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cindi always has ...
the best ideas!
by IM4Oakgal on Nov 15, 2008 5:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

by 
