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JJ Hardy.....and more

So, leading up to the Holliday trade I honestly felt (whether I was willing to admit it or not) that us A's fans were likely in for another "meh" type offseason. A couple veteran additions that weren't really anything to get excited about, but that we A's fans would somehow find a way to squeeze some hope out of. I figured Street would be traded, but for a prospect or two and I was almost certain Beane would end up letting Crosby play out his last season before free agency in Oakland. I kept telling myself that one more year of mediocrity was it, then next offseason would be the time to make a move with the influx of talent from the farm. I was somewhat hoping Beane would make a play at it in 2009, but thought the chances were slim-to-none. Well, it looks like I was wrong and Beane suprised the hell out of me, and probably 95% of all A's fans. So this is my first fanpost and I know we have had a lot of Holliday threads since the news broke, but I want to take it beyond that and see what you folks think of my idea to maximize this teams potential for 2009, and hopefully beyond. Matt Holliday is now an Oakland Athletic, and unless Beane plans on flipping him before opening day the A's will try to compete in 2009. So, here's what i've come up with.

 

Next up it looks like the A's would like to solve the SS issue. Beane is likely looking to pull a Mark Kotsay with Crosby, and deal him to a team looking for a one year solution. His goal will be to get some kind of under the radar prospect, while unloading at least $2 million of the $5.25 million Crosby is owed in 2009. Essentially, he'll be "buying a prospect". As far as replacements go, Furcal has been a name that has come up frequently with substantial rumors to back it up. He's a solid leadoff hitter that plays above average defense at SS and has lots of speed. However, he's coming off a season in which he was off to an absurd start, then suffered a back injury that sidelined him most of the rest of the year. I personally only like signing Furcal to a shorter term deal, maybe a 2 year with an option. My main reasoning on this is probably about the same as everyone else. How bad would it suck to have $25 million, and the A's left side of the infield sitting at home watching because of injuries??  The problem is that he's rumored to be seeking at least four years, and I don't think Beane and Co. will want to take that big of a chance. I would have to agree with them on that. I think most of us can agree that Renteria doesn't exactly sound like a great option, but his name is starting to come up. My solution?? Trade Gio Gonzalez, Vince Mazzaro, Henry Rodriguez and Corey Brown to Milwuakee for JJ Hardy and minor league 3B Taylor Greene. This works for Milwuakee in many ways. They are looking for young pitching. We send Gonzalez who can be inserted directly into their rotation, and Mazzaro who isn't too far from being ready himself. They also get one of the more live arms in the minor leagues in Henry Rodriguez. The guy throws 100 MPH, and after his move to the bullpen showed that he's gonna be ready to close games in the big leagues in the near future. Mike Cameron's contract is up soon, and Corey Brown gives them a legit athletic CF prospect who might be ready by mid 2010. Hardy is set to make $2.65 million next season, and would be under team control through 2010. He's another solid RH bat who could hit in the top-middle of the order with 20+ HR's and good defense at SS. He's young, he's healthy, and would barely put a dent in next season's payroll. It would give time for one of our younger SS prospects like Coleman, Christian or Leyja to step up and be considered for a starting job in a couple years. We would definitely be giving up talent, but would still be holding onto our "elite" guys like Anderson/Cahill/Carter/Cardenas. Greene would add depth at a position that we are very thin at, and he happens to be a solid prospect himself.

 

Next up I think the A's have to add another starter. Behind Duke we have a bunch of solid guys, but none with much experience. Obviously guys like Sabathia and Burnett are gonna command too much, so the A's will have to set their sights a little lower. My solution?? Sign Brad Penny to a 2 year/$16 million dollar deal. He was hurt last season, so he should come at a discout. He has always reminded me of a harder throwing Joe Blanton, and would be a solid guy to have towards the top of the rotation. The rotation is one of the biggest questions for the A's, and the young guns are not quite ready so a solid veteran is needed IMO. A rotation of Duke, Penny, Eveland, Gallagher and Outman isn't going to set the world on fire, but backed with a solid bullpen the staff has a chance to be pretty good.

 

Don't worry, i'm almost done. After the Holldiay trade, with Street, Smith and Gonzalez coming off the books plus Crosby's part the payroll should be sitting at around $47-48 million give or take. I don't have the exact numbers, but it should be within a couple million. After adding Hardy and Brad Penny the A's would be adding about $11 million to 2009's payroll raising it to the neighborhood of $59 million. It's been said before that this years payroll could reach the $80 million mark, but i'm thinking it'll be closer to the $70-75 million mark leaving a little room for Int'l signings, draft picks ETC. So lastly, as far as major moves are concerned, I would sign Adam Dunn to a 4 year/$56 million dollar deal. I know all the arguements here, and yes we already have Jack Cust but there is nothing wrong with two Jack Cust's in the middle of a productive, solid hitting team. He brings big power and patience, and would bring better defense at 1B then Jason Giambi. He was tried there last season, and although he wasn't a gold glover he was far from a disaster. We would be taking a hit defensively at 1B, but it would be a HUGE offensive upgrade. Barton could be sent to AAA to work on playing 3B, and if Chavez isn't healthy at any point Barton can take his place.

Lineup:

1. Sweeney CF

2. Buck RF

3. Holliday LF

4. Dunn 1B

5. Hardy SS

6. Cust DH

7. Chavez 3B

8. Ellis 2B

9. Suzuki C

Bench:

IF Pennington

IF Baisely

OF Rajai

C Powell/Bowen

 

The payroll wouldn't be too high and not only is that a team that I would do battle with, it would be pretty solid post Matt Holliday. Thoughts??

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hardy is their best remaining trade chip

their bp/sp is influx…why trade for anyone that likely has no influence on their 09 team…hate to say it, but brown/hrod are very flawed, mazzaro good but a bit further away. they’d want mlb ready talent

they’ve had eveland before…duke has duability issues

after furcal big drop off in SS, pllease no renteria

if A’s are going short term, why not tejada. astros are trying to dump contracts according to stark and may trade him or valverde

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 13, 2008 12:42 PM PST reply actions  

Tejada is old, expensive, and wasn't good last year.

Other than that, I can’t think of any reasons why he shouldn’t be acquired.

by mikev on Nov 13, 2008 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Correction

Tejada is old, not THAT expensive, and was a better than average shortstop last year.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 13, 2008 1:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Last year he was unusually bad offensively, but he was also unusually good defensively...

Assuming both of them regress toward his career average, it’ll basically cancel out.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 13, 2008 3:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Assuming he'll return to form offensively at age 35 and won't lose a step defensively.

That’s a heck of an assumption.

I mean, I’d give them Crosby straight up, but that’s about it.

by mikev on Nov 13, 2008 3:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd say Tejada projects to roughly be worth exactly what he's paid next season

which in turn means that I would claim him on waivers, but would not trade much in the way of assets for his contract. He does project to bring back a draft pick or two, so he’s worth something for that. But not much.

Crosby is a liability rather than an asset, so I would most definitely trade him for Tejada…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 13, 2008 3:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Well

I think Gio/Mazzaro is a good base for a deal on Hardy. Gio is ready to start in the majors now, and Mazzaro really isn’t all that far behind him. They are both solid, highly touted pitching prospects and that is something Milwuakee needs. Hardy is their best trade chip if Fielder is off the market, and i’m not sure thats the case. There has been talks of Hall and Weeks being moved in the past as well, although I agree they are not on Hardy’s level. I was considering inserting Doolittle/Barton for Brown because Fielder is likely gone within the next couple seasons but I went with Brown because solid CF prospects are more attractive then solid 1B prospects. There are just a lot of good 1B prospects in the minors compared to the number of good CF prospects. Also, this was just a suggestion and any other high upside relief prospect could be inserted in HRod’s place. I just think overall this would be a solid return for Milwuakee.

by JPShark on Nov 13, 2008 1:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd try to insert Barton for one of the pitchers, instead

If the A’s are inking Dunn to a long-term deal, he’s going to end up being blocked anyway.

However, I’m adamantly opposed to selling low on him, so it might not work out that way.

I’m kind of all over Doolittle right now, so, uh, I’d rather not trade him.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 13, 2008 1:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Eveland, Patterson and and OF

won’t net JJ Hardy. Eveland would be a good start, but I think he will be too useful to the A’s in 2009 and we will need him in the rotation. Patterson is really a non-prospect at this point and teams likely are not interested in aquiring him unless its a minor deal. I also don’t see the Brewers looking to aquire a MLB outfielder either. They are pretty set with Braun, Cameron and Hart next season. It’s possible, but I think their going to focus on pitching more then anything. Hardy has quite a bit of value in terms of being an above average MLB SS, and more then one season left before he reaches free agency. Its going to take some young, good pitching to get him. That’s why a deal including Mazzaro and Gio might be enough to pry him away.

by JPShark on Nov 13, 2008 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Why would we pay more for Hardy than we just paid for Holliday?

I like Hardy but if the Brewers don’t want him anymore or are replacing him at SS then he is going to cheaper.

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Nov 13, 2008 10:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Because 2 years is twice as much as 1 year?

And they don’t have to replace him at SS; they just can if they want to.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 14, 2008 12:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Milwaukee gave up on Eveland already

Why would they want him back.

by thejd44 on Nov 13, 2008 5:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Are the A's inking Dunn to a long-term deal?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 13, 2008 4:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Apparently they are in JPSharkland

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 13, 2008 4:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Exactly

BTW, free admission to JPShark land for the first 100 AN’rs to show!! But seriously, my opinion is that somebody will give Dunn at least a 4 year deal because of his age, and his offensive impact. I like him better then Burrell and Giambi for reasons that have already been discussed, and i’m not even sure he’ll end up getting the most money out of the 3 (I think that ends up being Burrell). I think the lineup I suggested would be very solid in all aspects. A lot of young good players, mixed in with a couple veteran’s who themselves aren’t exactly over the hill.

by JPShark on Nov 13, 2008 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

someone will give him 6 years I think...

The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.

by rebus on Nov 13, 2008 7:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I liked Dunn a lot too

I just don’t think he fits now that we have Holliday (who, of course, is the better player)

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 15, 2008 5:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Kinda like the Tejada idea

A’s take on his full salary to lower the cost in prospects headed to Houston.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 14, 2008 9:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Patterson for Tejada and his full contract

I think the Astros might take it.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 14, 2008 11:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Just speculating

Patterson plus Petit should be a toolsy enough package to make the deal happen IF the Astros are serious about moving Miggy’s contract. I’ve been looking around and thus far this whole idea is mostly a Starks’ fantasy.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 14, 2008 11:22 AM PST up reply actions  

We probably want Petit though

Pennington ftw.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 15, 2008 5:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd personally like to take a shot on Edgar Renteria if he comes in cheaply

minus this year, he’s typically good offensively (though that has nothing to do with his glove), but that alone should be able to make him a better option than Crosby. His career wOBA+ is around 105, which is decent, though not great. However, for the SS position, that is fantastic.

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 13, 2008 1:03 PM PST reply actions  

edgar renteria cant handle al pitching

he needs to hop on over back to the NL if you want to see his numbers go up again

by Wreckonized on Nov 13, 2008 2:58 PM PST reply actions  

I think Hardy or Weeks or Fielder are all realistic opportunities

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings

Brewers

WHAT THEY NEED: A heroic return by CC Sabathia, a closer to replace the abruptly retired Salomon Torres.

FREE AGENT WHO COULD TOP THEIR LIST: CC.

HOW THEY’LL SHOP: Well, that depends. If Sabathia really, really, really wants to return, the Brewers can find $100 million-plus to fork over to him. But realistically, he’s going to take bigger bucks from the Yankees or Dodgers or Angels. And at that point, that $100 million disappears from the Brewers’ shopping budget. Whereupon Plan B kicks in, and they’ll be looking to trade a starting infielder (Rickie Weeks? J.J. Hardy? Even Prince Fielder?) — or possibly Mike Cameron — for pitching reinforcements.

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Nov 13, 2008 3:43 PM PST reply actions  

we could trade some of our gazillions of pitchers

for any of these guys and it would help us out big time

hell we could even send them bocro back too so they get a pitcher and don’t get a hole in the infield

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Nov 13, 2008 3:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I disagree...

Rickie Weeks would not help the A’s out “big time”… or even “small time”…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 13, 2008 4:40 PM PST up reply actions  

what you smokin?

bocro obp last 3 seasons = .290; weeks last 3 seasons = .330, .360, .370

weeks slg = 398, 433, 404
bocro slg = 349, 341, 338

weeks ops = 737, 805, 765
bocro ops = 645, 619, 635

Cust is the new Jaha.

by johnjahafanclub on Nov 13, 2008 5:11 PM PST up reply actions  

They play different positions

Why are you comparing the two?

by thejd44 on Nov 13, 2008 5:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't like Hardy's defense at SS, although I guess I wouldn't hate him at 3B

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 13, 2008 4:19 PM PST reply actions  

Much as I'd like to add Hardy

as a good hitting SS who could slide in at 3B if Chavy goes down, I don’t think it’s wise to trade three good young pitching prospects for Hardy, who has just two years left on his contract and is not a plus defensive SS. Trading Gio, Mazzaro, and H-Rod would leave the A’s suddenly at “good” pitching depth instead of great pitching depth.

Like PT said, Mazzaro, H-Rod and Barton, or something along those lines, I could see. Shooting that much of your wad in an area as crucial as “good young pitching” only works for me if you’re getting someone like Yunel Escobar or Jed Lowrie – someone who will be good and that you can count on to have for a good while.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 13, 2008 4:45 PM PST reply actions  

I wouldn't mind exploring pitching prospects for Alcides "the other" Escobar

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 13, 2008 5:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I

can completely see why thats a good argument, and it was definitely something that crossed my mind. I was just thinking in terms of the Brewers’ needs in pitching, more-so then at 1B. Fielder is still there, and I have a feeling Gamel may end up there as well unless he converts to the OF. Like I said, the A’s will no doubt have to give up talent and I see a good match with the Brewers to fill a position of need with a pretty damn good player.

by JPShark on Nov 13, 2008 4:52 PM PST reply actions  

Good job on your first Fanpost

I like Hardy as well, but not at that price. I will say no to Dunn. Not because he is not valued, its just that I want our young players (I’m looking at you Barton) to have the chance to develop. I am a sucker for the promise of the future. Not many players could be brought in that would not hinder the development of our young players. Furcal, on the other hand, is one player who could be brought in, without giving up the future, and without blocking it.

by Hang Man on Nov 13, 2008 7:05 PM PST reply actions  

Is Barton's potential higher than Dunn's present skill level?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 14, 2008 5:11 AM PST up reply actions  

My overall assesment of this fanpost

I appreciate the reasoning behind your suggestions. You made some rookie mistakes which are easily correctable.

First and foremost, you need to bookmark this link. Cot’s is the best site on the web for finding contract info. This is important because then you’d know that J.J. Hardy made $2.65 million in 2008 and as he’s arbitration eligible in 2009 that figure is set to go a fair bit higher. You’re offering Adam Dunn a $14 million annual salary… he made $13 million in 2008. Is there any reason why you thnk one of the premier free agents in the 2008/2009 class is only going to get a $1 million raise?

Like I said, these are some basic mistakes which can be corrected with experience. Now that you know, we’ll expect better from you next time.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 14, 2008 10:11 AM PST reply actions  

I don't know how "premier" Dunn will be considered, actually.

You know.. STRICKOUTS! LOW AVERAGE!!!

At $15M per, he’d be a good value if he keeps hitting 40 bombs every freaking year.

by mikev on Nov 14, 2008 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Power always pays well on the FA market

I don’t think he’ll get $20 million annual, but I can see him pushing $15-16 million a year.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 14, 2008 10:50 AM PST up reply actions  

i hope $$ isnt wasted

on cabrera/renteria…they wont come cheap either…maybe 2yr/12-15mill

pass on that use the $$ on giambi or someone else

inquire on tejada or find an mlb ready SS somewhere through trade

at worst, use petit/pennington

at best, we might never see crosby in an A’s uniiform

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 14, 2008 3:03 PM PST reply actions  

Sounds like almost a given -

that Beane has FINALLY had enough of Croz.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 14, 2008 5:55 PM PST up reply actions  

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