It May Be Time To Bid Lowe
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 5:24 PM PST
313 comments
As wretched as the A's offense has been lately and as solid as the pitching has been for years, it is counter-intuitive to think that if the A's plan to contend in 2009 they most urgently need to use their resources to add a starting pitcher, not another hitter, to the current team. But as much as I would like to see Dunn's power, Furcal's non-Crosbyness, or Giambi's solid OPS added to the current offensive attack, pitching wins and currently the A's are poised to have too little of it for each of the next two seasons.
The acquisition of Holliday, with no guarantee of keeping him beyond 2009, signals to me that the A's feel more confidence than at any time since 2005 that Eric Chavez will be able to man 3B for a productive season and so I am going to make the assumption, for now, that he returns to the lineup as a middle of the order presence - even if it means 20 HR and 80 RBI instead of the 30/100 he used to accomplish. With Holliday, Chavez, and Cust flanked by Suzuki, Sweeney, Buckingham, the A's lineup is already improved from awful to ok. It's not great, but you can win with an average offense. The A's can't win with average pitching.
Right now the 2009 rotation has an ace in Duke, but one who cannot be counted on to make 30 starts. Gallagher is pushed way up to the #2 spot before he is necessarily ready to pitch at that level. At #3 you have to put someone who has not yet proven conclusively that he is more than a #5 - among your choices are Braden, Eveland, Gio Gonzalez - and if Mazzaro, Simmons, Anderson or Cahill emerge on the major league scene, it is unreasonable to pencil them in as high as #3 in their first season.
Enter Derek Lowe, a solid #2 starter whose value may get a bit overlooked amidst the drooling over Sabathia, Sheets, and Burnett. Now you can drop Gallagher to #3 in the rotation, the best of Braden, Eveland, and Gio to #4, another to #5. Rookies who come up have less pressure, as they can be tucked into the back of the rotation and can slide up to #3 or #2 come 2010, 2011. What a difference one addition to the front of the rotation can make - it's what the A's gave up in Joe Blanton.
I would argue that if the A's went out and signed Dunn or Furcal right now, they would still not be contenders in 2009 with the current rotation, but that if they signed only Lowe you could make a better case that the team would have enough pieces in place to compete as is.
Sure I'd like to see the A's add both another solid hitter and another solid starting pitcher. But given that Oakland only has so much payroll left to burn and given the importance of not giving up too much of the young talent, if the A's have one more key move they can make, let it be to add a good pitcher. Then inquire quietly about guys like Ty Wiggington and Ryan Garko, and see if you can piece together a few more runs on the cheap.
UPDATE: 8:14pm PST It has just come to my attention that LongTimeFan does not like Derek Lowe, does not want the A's to acquire Derek Lowe under any circumstances, and that it is important for me to clarify that the A's acquiring Derek Lowe would be a very ungood thing indeed. Please interpret this post as being only about "the concept of adding a pitcher around the ability level of Derek Lowe, but most certainly not Lowe himself." Thank you.
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I'd (shudder) support signing (ugh) Lowe
now I have to go wash.
by OaklandSi on Nov 11, 2008 5:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
And once again...
just close your eyes, and think of Oakland.
Ray: "How fun is it to be up here playing in the Big Leagues?"
Gio: "It's *SUPER* fun!!!"
by Poppy on Nov 11, 2008 7:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i'd take my chancea with these guys
penny
byrd
mulder on the cheap
by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 11, 2008 5:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
no way to mulder
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Nov 11, 2008 5:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mulder won't pitch again in a starting role unless he's as a LOOGY
I agree with Penny though
This.
by Blicks on Nov 11, 2008 6:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A LOOGY starter?
That’s a first. Get Curtis Granderson out, then leave the game?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 6:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My wording sucks.
He won’t pitch again in a starting role IMO. If he pitches again, it will be as a LOOGY.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 11, 2008 6:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't they just have Granderson bat 5th?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 6:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes... if you tell them Mulder is "starting" beforehand...
(You are, of course, correct to point out that burning a LOOGY in the first inning is ridiculous. He can get Granderson out in the 7th inning in higher leverage situations, which is clearly a better play.)
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 6:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're assuming he can get Granderson out.
by mikev on Nov 11, 2008 6:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's facing only one batter in any case.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 6:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Because then his shoulder will explode?
Or were you expecting one batter a game? That would surprise me.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 11, 2008 7:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Because otherwise he'd be a LTOGY
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If you throw left-handed, you can basically get Granderson out
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 6:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
mulder has the left-handed thing going for thim, too bad he can’t throw.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 11, 2008 7:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That mysterious left-handed Huston Street the paper mentioned would be a good pickup for AL Central teams then...
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Nov 11, 2008 8:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Love this suggestion
Living in LA, I watched a lot of his starts the last 8-10 weeks….He really was one of the best starters in baseball in that stretch when the Dodgers needed him. I think he would slot in really well in Oaktown.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Nov 11, 2008 5:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Lowe or Randy Johnson.
Whoever comes cheaper.
I think either guy would still make Furcal available.
by mikev on Nov 11, 2008 5:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Randy Johnson will come much cheaper.
Lowe gets 4 years easily.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 11, 2008 6:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True, but I think Lowe might well make less per season
and it’s not like the A’s can’t use the man in 2010.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 6:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so.
Lowe will easily get 15MM for 4 years on the open market. He’s the second best starter behind CC. Whoever doesn’t get CC will go Lowe.
And, he’s already 35/36. Do I really want him around at 39, with no idea how he’ll be then?
This.
by Blicks on Nov 11, 2008 6:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Lowe will be the second most sought after
in the open market. The guys to avoid are going to get a lot of attention: Sheets and Burnett. I wouldn’t touch either with a ten-foot pole, but I think Lowe will be the fourth most sought after starting pitcher even though he’s actually the second best choice.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 6:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Johnson's a lot worse than his ERA, FIP or xFIP in 2008
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 6:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
tRA: 3.32
I assume by “worse” you mean “better.”
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 6:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No I mean worse. His opposing batters had a cumulative .707 OPS --
the easiest opposing hitters of any pitcher in the majors to throw more than 50 innings.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 6:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i'd touch Sheet or Burnett with a ten foot pole
assuming it was one of those magic poles that makes everything it touches dirt cheap…and that just didn’t sound right
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 11, 2008 7:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a feeling if you touched your own magic pole on stuff at Wal-Mart, it'd be marked down significantly
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Nov 11, 2008 8:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And you'd be escorted swiftly from the store
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 8:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Although at ten feet you'd be likely to get some other interesting offers
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 8:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and we're back to getting Lowe...how the wheel goes round and round
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 11, 2008 9:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you'd be an instant YouTube star...
once the security video was leaked.
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Nov 11, 2008 9:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe would be a very good signing for the A's
He would certainly benefit from the Oakland defense.
In reality, I think we need Lowe + Furcal to be serious contenders, but there’s a lot of dollars involved in that first clause.
by MrIncognito on Nov 11, 2008 5:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
There's a lot of dollars involved in reality?
While technically true, that observation seems somewhat banal.
:p
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 6:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps, but also germane.
I wouldn’t sign Lowe when there’s tons of pitching prospects and the offense still sucks. I’d rather upgrade with Dunn. The only way signing Lowe makes sense is if you’re going to trade multiple pitching prospects for a SS.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 6:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You can never have too much pitching
Really. Never.
Another advantage of signing Lowe: he makes it much less likely that the team will be tempted to call up Cahill or Anderson next season…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 6:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ya but with $40M you want to spend $15M on Lowe? I'd rather have Dunn.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 6:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dunn blocks prospects
in the true sense of the term, i.e. makes it impossible for them to benefit your team.
Lowe doesn’t, because pitching prospects are basically never blocked.
Both of them are about a 2 win upgrade from the current roster, unless Dunn shows off a non-horrible ability to playing first base.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 6:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
play first base*
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 7:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't he show that non-horrible ability in 2008? They moved Jackson to LF.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's listed as -6 runs by Smith, so he's about a win worse than Barton on D
On offense, 3-4 wins better. So, he’s again a 2-3 win upgrade on Barton. But he creates position player congestion at a well-stocked position, which might pose a future problem.
He’s probably a better sign than Lowe in the abstract, but I think he’s going to cost considerably more.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 7:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinking Lowe is 4/$60M and Dunn 6/$100M
So considerably more years but not much more per year.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We'll see. Lowe's age, his lack of "great stuff,"
and the presence on the market of C.C., Sheets, and Burnett could keep him below $15mil/year and or below a 4 year offer.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 7:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if the Yanks, Mets and maybe Rangers bid?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We'll see - guys like Lowe tend to get
offered less than they’re worth while guys like Sheets and Burnett are being offered more than they’re worth, usually by teams just like the ones you mention.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 8:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OK then I'd take him for up to 4 years $40M
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 8:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Same - I'm not suggesting overpaying for a pitcher
Just that it might be worthwhile to invest in a solid #2 starter instead of a solid hitter, strange as it may sound.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 8:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would argue that Lowe DOES have great stuff
His sinker isn’t “unhittable” in the literal sense of the word, but he DOES get massive amounts of ground balls, and I don’t see that changing in the next few years. That fadeback sinker he throws (like the Melhuse/Long pitches) is just filthy against lefties. He doesn’t throw 95 MPH, and he doesn’t have a Kerry Wood breaking ball, but Lowe has some damn good “stuff”.
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Nov 11, 2008 8:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
From your point of view and from my point of view
But not from the point of view of “them ol’ schoo’ scouts who know baseball – yee haw!!!!!”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 8:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey now, I coach at a high school that's placed 30+ players in major college progrums!
John McGraw wouldn’t have put up with yer guff, young’un…
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Nov 11, 2008 8:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why don't you imitate an escape artist
and make a productive out?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 8:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Productive out
Isn’t that happening on 1/20/09?
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Nov 11, 2008 8:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding the congestion Dunn can play LF in the off chance Holliday doesn't re-sign
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Then he just clogs the corner OF slots
instead of the 1B slot.
Doesn’t really change the problem. Also, he’s epic fail in left field. Probably worse than sticking Cust out there.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 7:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ya but he's better than the other options. That's not clogging. It's improving.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 8:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 9:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cahill and/or Anderson next year...
is a good thing.
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Nov 11, 2008 9:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
right, because it could possibly mean all but 3 of duke, gallagher, eveland, braden, giogon, outman, simmons, and mazzaro were ineffective.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 11, 2008 9:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to hear some kind of actual explanation for this
… but I’m not holding my breath.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 11:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well, I'm only for it...
if they are 2 of the best 5 pitchers we have. And, I’m pretty sure the others that xbh mentions are nothing more than trade bait for something else Billy wants, namely, another bat. I kinda believe in playing our best players. Unlike playing Kielty and Kotsay over Byrnes, when Byrnes was clearly the superior player. I’m weird that way.
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Nov 12, 2008 12:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
clarification...
the others being Braden, Gio, Outman, Simmons and Mazzaro. Maybe even Eveland, if Billy can swing the right deal. All of them are expendable and tradable.
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Nov 12, 2008 12:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So, I suppose you think Michael Inoa should be starting games for the A's next year too
After all, all that matters is that “he’s the best.” Age, experience, proven performance, etc etc are all meaningless.
There is absolutely no reason to believe right now that either Cahill or Anderson is one of the best 5 A’s starting pitchers. Given where they are at on the minor league ladder, virtually the only scenario under which they will actually look like one of the best 5 at any point next season is if most of the players in front of them flame out in epic fashion. I don’t understand why this is apparently such a difficult concept to grasp.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 12:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Inoa is a little young...
but, sure… if he’s lights-out better than anyone else who is older, there is, no doubt, I’d want him in the rotation. Just because you don’t project them, doesn’t mean I don’t want them if they’re the best.
There is no reason for you to believe either Cahill or Anderson is one of the A’s best starting pitchers, right now. Trust. That could change. And, it probably will.
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Nov 12, 2008 1:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you wouldn't have wanted Vida Blue...
in the A’s rotation in his rookie year.
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Nov 12, 2008 1:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd start Inoa if he were one of the five best pitchers and Vida Blue
if he were one of the five best pitchers. Why anyone would intentionally root for a worse player to get playing time over a better player (aside from a silly exception like they’re almost the same but one can benefit from minor league development) is beyond me. Age is irrelevant. Eye color is irrelevant. Erectile dysfunction is irrelevant (unless it happens to me). Performance counts (especially in that last instance). It’s the only thing that counts.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OK
Fine, it’s obvious that both of you have no intention whatsoever of addressing my (and xbx’s) substantive point, so to hell with this.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 1:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no intention of addressing your "substantive" point...
until you play me a hand of Texas Hold ’Em. So, quit begging.
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Nov 12, 2008 1:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am impressed by your combination of complete irrelevance and gratuitous truculence
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 1:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I congratulate you...
on the recognition of two of my 5 best talents.
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Nov 12, 2008 1:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you clarify the difference between being "the best"
and “proven performance”?
The rest of those things like age, experience and etc. really aren’t relevant.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They are absolutely frigging relevant
because pitchers (and position players) who get tossed into environments over their heads disproportionately a. suck, and b. continue sucking.
By “the best,” I mean the guy who ranks highest on the team’s prospect list, or, if you will, the imaginary prospect list that includes the guys at the major league level.
Yes, Cahill is a better pitching prospect than Dana Eveland. No, that does not necessarily have anything to do with which of those two would pitch better if you put them in the 2009 Oakland starting roster.
I mean, you yourself outline the situation— and then you proceed to dismiss it as irrelevant when it is, in fact, incredibly relevant:
aside from a silly exception like they’re almost the same but one can benefit from minor league development
Cahill and Anderson can benefit from minor league development. Dana Eveland cannot. Since there is utterly no reason to believe that either of those guys will outpitch Dana Eveland next season, Eveland should be the one starting for the MLB team.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 1:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Our difference appears to be one of definition
By “the best” I don’t mean at the top of the list of best prospects. I mean the one who gives you the best chance to win the most World Series during the course of his career (not the 6.6 pre-FA Years). Yo.u can always sign a true superstar for his FA years if you’ve treated him right during the pre-FA years, unless he’s an asshole
I do not buy the argument that you automatically bench or demote a player because he’s not old enough or hasn’t enough innings of minor league ball or anything else. If they give you the best chance to win, you play them. Period.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There are a lot of holes in this definition
notably what to do in the inverse situation to the one here— where calling a guy up too soon will help the team win more games in the short run at the expense of the long run. Sometimes it’s worth trading 2 future wins for 1 highly leveraged present win.
Generally speaking, though, if you’re trying to win a title, you want the 25 players on your roster who will most help you do so. I see no evidence whatsoever other than a. blind wishcasting or b. incredible pessimism about the rest of the team’s pitchers that either Cahill or Anderson will be one of those 25 players at any point next season.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 2:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is ZiPS evidence?
I agree in general you take the most total wins except for that highly leveraged present win.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 2:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Cahill's 3.68 FIP MLE in 2008 evidence?
How about Anderson’s 3.80 — including those horrible 15 IP that you’ve repeatedly alluded to?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 2:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How about each of their BB-Pro MLE
of about 4.80 between A+ and AAA. It’s not out of the realm of realistic possibility that they’ll improve enough by the 2nd half of 2009 to get that 4.80 down to 4.20 or so.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 2:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's AA not AAA
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 2:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"Those horrible 15 IP" basically had no effect on his FIP
since they pretty much amounted to a huge bunch of singles. He didn’t lose his control, just his ability to throw a competitive fastball.
Short answer: No, I really don’t think that stuff is worth much. FIP is OK for comparing prospects at the same level; not so hot for comparing them to players in the majors. I think it’s radically understating the degree of difficulty increase between AA and MLB. The BPro numbers are more reasonable, but they do not remotely suggest that either of them is big league ready.
ZiPS is lame at best for very young players.
Also, I’d point out that Mazzaro had a 3.63 MLE FIP last year. Do you seriously expect Vince Mazzaro to be a 3.63 ERA pitcher?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 2:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not referring to the precision of the
figures, just citing them as evidence that these guys might be ready at some point in 2009 to pitch in the majors. As far as Mazzaro being a 3.63 FIP pitcher in the majors, it seems unlikely, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he pitched in the rotation in 2009 either. I don’t see the guys ahead of the prospects — namely Braden and I guess Outman as being much of a blockage. Duke and Gallagher haven’t exactly been durable either, so the kids are likely to get a chance. They’re good enough that they might succeed.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 3:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's take a look at last year's PECOTA
Cahill —
75th percentile 2008 — 5.29
Actual 2008 — ~4.80
75h percentile 2009 — 4.75
Anderson —
75th percentile 2008 — 5.37
Actual 2008 — ~4.80
75h percentile 2009 — 4.61
Is it so far-fetched to think that they’ll get to 4.20-4.30 by the 2nd half of 2009 given their tremendous progress in 2008?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 3:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your question answers itself
If their 75th percentile performance is an ERA in the high 4s, an ERA in the low 4s has to be 90th percentile or higher. So, yes, it is that far-fetched— and besides, I don’t lie awake at night in glee over the prospect of a 4.20 ERA. It’s not worth bothering with given all the attendant risks.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 8:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What are these "attendant risks"
Please don’t say “service clock”. That’s a losers’ argument.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 3:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, it's a winners' argument
Winners, like the 2007 Red Sox. Like the 2008 Rays.
Perhaps it would be better to describe it as “a winner’s AND loser’s argument”, because both winners and losers pay attention to it. The reason why both winners and losers use it is that it is so obviously moronic not to that even awful teams can figure that bit out.
However, in this case I was more referring to the risk of turning them into the next Jeremy Guthrie or Homer Bailey, or for that matter, the next Joey Devine, who could only get over his issues when he had been sold for pennies on the dollar to another franchise.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
re: PTs comment above
this is my main problem in following your arguments. your counterpoints tend to not address important things that others bring up.
i certainly enjoy your perspective, but this makes tracking your (often substantive) threads difficult
Save Rajai Davis
by oakinboston on Nov 12, 2008 10:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
By the way it's not true that the only way Anderson and
Cahill make the team is if all but three more senior pitchers flame out. It could also be because Anderson and Cahill are really awesome. That wouldn’t surprise me in the least. Did you see Dwight Gooden in 1984-85?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah being top 15 prospects in all of baseball isn’t enough, let’s expect them both to be the best 20 year old pitchers in a generation!
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 12, 2008 1:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not expecting it. I'm keeping my mind open to
all possibilities and not pre-judging for extraneous reasons. I don’t care if a player is 2 or 2 million years old. If he she or it is the best, I say play him her or it.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
considering they’re nowhere near as good as dwight gooden at age 20, what are the chances anderson and cahill are as good as him at age 21?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 12, 2008 1:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
slim...
but, we really don’t need them to be that good. Just better than all the flotsam ahead of them on the A’s roster.
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Nov 12, 2008 1:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
right, those other 8 pitchers are lousy.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 12, 2008 1:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2, maybe 3, are good or decent...
which ones do you consider “proven” MLB ready, exactly?
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Nov 12, 2008 1:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
duke, gallagher, eveland, braden, and possibly giogon
all have little to nothing left to prove in the minor leagues.
proven MLB ready is a spectrum, and all 8 of those guys are closer to the MLB end than anderson or cahill.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 12, 2008 1:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't give it high odds that they have 300 Ks, but I'm not precluding
the possibility that they can progress rapidly. I don’t get why you’d want to take the position that such rapid progress is impossible or so unlikely as to be irrelevant.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"Rapid progress" is a statistical fantasy based on small sample sizes
Nick Adenhart sure looked like he was “progressing rapidly” when the Angels called him up. Turned out his “progress” was an utter fluke, caused by the fact that he’d only started 5 or 6 games on the season.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 1:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It can also be real.
Although I’m tempted to use the title of that post as my new sig line.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I find this scenario sufficiently preposterous that it's not worth wasting brain cells on
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 1:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
when you don't have them to spare...
you shouldn’t waste them.
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Nov 12, 2008 1:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Theres just no chance Cahill/Anderson are pitching in Oak next outside of a Sept call up. Which might not happen since they would prob be better served pitching in the AAA post season.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Nov 12, 2008 1:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
next year*
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Nov 12, 2008 1:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd put the odds at greater than 50% by Aug
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bringing them up to get a spot start here and there does them no good.
Even if he have a lot of injuries theres other players ahead of them, that would prob get a call up first. Mazzaro and Simmons.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Nov 12, 2008 1:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think all of Cahill, Mazzaro, Simmons,
Anderson and Gio will start in AAA or get to AAA by May. Once that happens it’s not all that unlikely that Cahill and Anderson will distinguish themselves from the other three. To me it’s at least a 50% likelihood.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 2:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I just read through all of this stuff. Why do WaddellCanseco and FoolshGame22 hate prospect development so much?
I loved the “sure, I’d promote Inoa” part. Lunacy of that caliber is a rare and special thing.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 12, 2008 11:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Monkey sodomy?
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Nov 12, 2008 1:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"in reality" is not a clause
It’s just a prepositional phrase.
"Sweeney's a white Andre Ethier."--a white, drunk Billy Beane
by Cutthemullet on Nov 15, 2008 6:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No. NO. HELL NO!!!
Lowe isn’t a bad pitcher, and the A’s would provide the kind of defensive support he needs to thrive but he turns 36 in June and word is he’s looking for a 3-4 year deal. There is a very good chance you’ll be stuck with an ineffective SP for the last two years of a 4 year deal. At $14-15 million annual that’s a lot of wasted cash even with a payroll over $80 million.
I agree the rotation needs help if the A’s are going to contend in 2008. Sign Randy Johnson (who made 30 starts last year) to a 1 year deal at $10-12 million. If you’re feeling really frisky also sign Brad Penny (assuming he passes a physical) to a 1 year deal at $6-7 million. Sure, the two signings would cost you $4-5 million more than going after Lowe but you buy some insurance by investing in 2 veteran arms instead of 1 and a year from now you aren’t trying to figure out what to do with Lowe and his 3 year/$42 million contract when the kids are ready to play.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 11, 2008 5:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
what if the plan is to maximize "competitiveness" in the '09 window w/Holliday + Lowe ...
… and then not only let Holliday walk for prospects, but flip Lowe in the offseason as well?
Did you overpay for those eggs? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Nov 11, 2008 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
separate question
I’m only throwing the let-Holliday-walk-for-draft-picks angle in there to frame the issue. Heck, could extend Holliday and still flip Lowe. A season in the Coli w/the A’s D behind him could really maximize Lowe’s trade value.
Did you overpay for those eggs? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Nov 11, 2008 6:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly - you can flip Lowe
(or flip him off, which I tend to want to do) after a season when the young ‘uns are ready. It’s also not a stretch to think he could be effective at age 38-39, as a guy who relies on a sinker and not on velocity.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 6:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
can we just flip him now?
Save Rajai Davis
by oakinboston on Nov 11, 2008 6:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
can we make obscene pelvic-thrust gestures towards lowe now?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 11, 2008 7:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What was stopping you previously?
His face looks like he voted No on 8
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Nov 11, 2008 8:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How exactly does that face look?
Personally, my face has one look when I vote “no” on even-numbered propositions, and another when I vote “no” on odd-numbered ones. (I never vote “yes” because I figure if 900,000 people think something is a good idea, it is almost certainly a very bad idea.)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 8:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's kinda similar to the constipated face
Trying to make the point that Derek Lowe looks kinda gay, but in a roundabout way. Spoiled. LOL
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Nov 11, 2008 8:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah - making fun of gay people AND bringing politics onto AN
in the same comment. Nice!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 8:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm reaching the point where I can no longer find the line between serious comments and complete joke posts.
I love this board.
No seriously…
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Nov 11, 2008 8:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're gambling that you can flip Lowe
Which you probably could, but you’re also sending a message to free agents that you better include a no-trade clause if you sign with Oakland. Otherwise you can never really unpack your bags.
That’s a situation the A’s want to avoid.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 11, 2008 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
meh
Partly, I think Beane already has that rep (and doesn’t, generally speaking, relish acceding to NTCs). And any FA who’s really concerned about staying anywhere for the duration of his contract insists on an NTC, doesn’t he?
Did you overpay for those eggs? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Nov 11, 2008 8:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You had me at "meh"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 8:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You had meh at "me"
Did you overpay for those eggs? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Nov 11, 2008 8:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that even possible?
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Nov 11, 2008 8:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not by California statutes
Did you overpay for those eggs? @('.')@
by monkeyball on Nov 11, 2008 8:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
stole my thunder...
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 11, 2008 7:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Someone has to pitch in 2010, though
Cahill and Anderson are likely to still be very green in that season. Duke is gone, unless you extend him. Who’s your ace, Gio? Simmons? Doesn’t seem like a great situation.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 6:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather extend Duke for cheaper than extend Lowe.
1. Younger.
2. Much, much cheaper.
3. Yeah, he’s been on the team longer and I like him.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 11, 2008 6:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Duke's not a healthy guy though. I think Cahill and Anderson will be ready in 2010.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 6:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tim Lincecum was ready in 2007
He was not an ace in 2007. He was an ace in 2008.
I expect Cahill and Anderson to be “ready” in 2010, and actually good in 2011.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 6:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
By "ready" I mean ready to be good enough to be in a Top 1/3 rotation.
I’m sticking with 2010 for that. I’m even hoping for August 2009 for that — like Price.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 6:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm extremely doubtful that Price will be a high-performing starter in 2009
I can already visualize all the “Price: what’s wrong?” blog posts on minorleagueball next July when he has like a 4.30 ERA.
As for the first line of your comment, I must confess that I don’t understand what you mean. It would help if you outlined actual predicted performance numbers for them.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 7:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I meant they'd be in the top 1/3 of starters in the majors.
4.30 isn’t a bad ERA, and should lead to a winning record with the Rays. He shouldn’t get too much flak with that.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know, but the hype on him is ZOMG AUTOMATIC #1 ACE STARTER
compared to which, a decent-to-good first full season will look like a failure.
I think he’s going to be a good pitcher, but whether that’s a #1, #2 or #3 is TBD and by no means a lock. And even if he eventually becomes a #1, I think there will be an adjustment period.
I do not really believe that Cahill and Anderson will be in the top 1/3 of starters in 2010. If they are, fabulous, but I’m sure as hell not counting on it.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 7:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we've got a lot of options other than to count on our prospects coming through.
I’m guessing it will be sooner than later for those two. They’re the two best pitching prospects I remember the A’s ever having, partly because I didn’t really understand how great Harden was. Having them be good at age 22 wouldn’t be that much of a surprise. If it doesn’t happen, no problem, I can wait a year.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eveland and Gallagher
Generally the top pitchers only need one season to come up to speed. If Eveland and Gallagher are to be more than back of the rotation guys, 2009 is going to be their year to step forward. If it doesn’t happen in 2009 with either or both of them, my guess is that it won’t happen at all and the A’s are shit out of luck for the year.
But if both do step up, then all the team needs is a solid #4 guy, who could be Randy Johnson or Derek Lowe or Brad Penny or A.J. Burnett or Oliver Perez, with the #5 guy starting as Braden or Outman, but succeeded during the year by one of more of the young studs in AAA. Personally, I’d go with Oliver Perez who’s probably pretty cheap and will be easy to flip at some point.
by richwol1 on Nov 11, 2008 8:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt Oliver Perez will be cheap. I'm thinking 4/$44 M
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 8:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. He'll get Kyle Lohse money, easily.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 11, 2008 9:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
IMO, you're allowing your views
on top pitchers / top pitching prospects to be somewhat distorted by what has happened with Lincecum.
Randy Johnson didn’t take one year to come up to speed. Nor Tom Glavine. Nor CC Sabathia.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 11, 2008 11:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nor Sandy Koufax.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, anderson and cahill are hall of fame locks, as long as their careers don’t get derailed by cocaine.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 12, 2008 1:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you meant this for Gooden.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i was attempting to connect the two sub-threads.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 12, 2008 1:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Smooth.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My Anderson theory
Anderson is lights out during ST, forcing the A’s to start him in AAA. He makes like Zito did back in the day and Oakland calls him up in the 2nd half. There’s no one thing I can point to to explain why this’ll happen, its just a hunch.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 11, 2008 7:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. Also Cahill makes like Hudson in AA and gets to AAA in May and
Oakland on June 28.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Will the A's be in contention at that point?
I hope they are either about to make like the 1998 Yanks and clinch in early August. Or be in the celar so they can unload Holiday for SS/3B of the future.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Nov 11, 2008 7:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinking they'll be like the 2000 A's. They'll be around 5 games over at the
break within 5 games of first, and won’t trade Holliday.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That'd be good: The 2000 A's minus Gil Heredia's last start
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 7:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's partly strength of schedule -- Angels, Rangers, Mariners aren't much better
than we are.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not worried about who anchors my rotation in 2010
Trading for Holliday has shifted the focus more towards the present. For all this to work the A’s still need Gallagher and Eveland to step up their games. If everything works out the way the A’s want it to one of those two can anchor the 2010 rotation while Gio, Mazzaro, Anderson, Cahil, Simmons (in whatever combination thou doth desire) settle in.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 11, 2008 6:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No Lowe
we have the starters in Duke, galagher, braden, eveland, and gonzalez/outman. We have the bullpen. devine, ziggy, brown, casilla, and blevins. We have a outfield and catchers. So our need is 3b, ss, and 1b. Lets get those first and then pick up a righty starter cheap. Lowe will be a expensive 10+million ayear pitcher.
by Arcman on Nov 11, 2008 6:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I've outlined how good the A's rotation is going into next year.
Viz, not very. It is critical to take defense and park into account when you’re evaluating pitchers. Adjusted for that, most of last year’s rotation wasn’t great.
Lowe would be an upgrade of at least 2 wins, possibly more if he pitches like 2006 or 2008.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 6:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think what people are saying is...
that we have players who could pitch decently in the rotation, for 2009 and 2010.
But we do not have anyone who can play SS, 3B or 1B decently for 2009, and 2010. Our top positional prospects are in AA (Cardenas, Doolittle) and struggled there.
So if we signed Furcal and acquired/signed a 3B or 1B, we’d have a much, much better lineup even if it was just replacing the sub-replacement levels we got there last year. If 1B, Chavez can play 3B. If 3B, Chavez can play 1B.
We have about 40 million to play with for acquisitions. I think it is reasonable to believe we could sign Furcal and a big corner infield bat. Hell, why not try getting Garrett Atkins while Colorado’s doing this fire sale.
As for Lowe, I thought the word was that Lowe did not want to stay in the West Coast anymore, and was looking to go back to the East Coat, with the Yankees going hard at him.
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Nov 11, 2008 6:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know where Lowe wants to play,
and that could obviously be a factor. If not Lowe, then my post becomes more “Randy Johnson” or maybe even Randy Wolf.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 6:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If we're looking for a control innings eater type I'd take Sonnanstine over Lowe
Lowe sounds like he’ll get something like 4/$60M for declining performance.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 6:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay. Here's the deal.
You’re stuck on a deserted island and you have to choose one of three companions. Would you rather have a Randy Wolf, a Randy Johnson, or a Randy Savage?
au contra ire
by JediLeroy on Nov 11, 2008 6:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Miss Elizabeth tagging along with the Macho Man?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 11, 2008 6:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he means would you rather be raped by a wolf or savage or have a boner.
I choose boner.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 6:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Richard Milhous Stabone thanks you
au contra ire
by JediLeroy on Nov 11, 2008 7:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They actually named that guy Boner and said it with a straight face.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eww. Lowe.
If I somehow had 2003 removed completely from my memory, my baseball life would be much easier. And less hate-filled.
by whiteshoes40 on Nov 11, 2008 6:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
At least now when he cheers violently and obnoxiously,
he’ll be showing up his own dugout.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 6:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
we shouldn’t have traded away all of our established young cost-controlled pitchers last year….just a thought
by faninphilly on Nov 11, 2008 6:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
And where would we be now?
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Nov 12, 2008 1:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea of taking a flyer on Penny.
If the A’s are in contention at the AS Break extend an offer to C. Schilling if he is in shape to pitch. Lowe scares me with how much he will cost (1/3 of the current payroll) but if the A’s are trying to win it all this year they might as well not half ass it. Billy Beane did not half ass the rebuilding process so I anticipate he will go all in this year assuming he does not plan to trade Holiday before the season starts.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Nov 11, 2008 6:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Lotta walks for Penny
I did not see him pitch once last season, but seems like the biggest issue for Mr. Brad were high number of free passes issued. If he can get that under control he’d be a legit acquisition.
by Pucking Insane on Nov 11, 2008 7:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hey, he'd fit right in on the recent A's staffs...
A rotation of Penny, Eveland, Gallagher, Chad Gaudin and Greg Smith could raise money for charity every game…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention the diet of past staffs...
I mean seriously between Penny, Eveland, and the sheer memory of Blanton, the continental breakfast would cease to exist.
And yeah I know, weight jokes are easy.
by Pucking Insane on Nov 11, 2008 9:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The biggest issue for Penny was injury.
If he’s healthy, he’d be a legit acquisition.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 11, 2008 11:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Geez Nico
You couldn’t work “Holliday” into your title?
Slacker.
But seriously, nice to step away for a moment, isn’t it? Away from all those “Holliday season” puns. Not that I have anything against puns, mind you. So how many more shopping days ’til…? Never mind.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Nov 11, 2008 7:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Like, "A's Feelin' Lowe After Holliday?"
The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.
by rebus on Nov 12, 2008 8:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes!
I think Nico has a no-holliday clause in his contract though.
holliday…clause…there’s a Christmas joke in there somewhere. or, at worst, a limerick.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Nov 12, 2008 10:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or a politically correct version of a terrible movie that inexplicably spawned several sequels.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 12, 2008 11:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
RJ has said he wants to play on the West Coast
Hey, the A’s are on the West Coast!
And whoever signs him gets a fair bit of extra income as he’s 5 wins away from 300. I don’t think he’d be as good as he was last year in the AL (and maybe not as good as Lowe), but I’d be willing to go 1 yr/10 mil or 2 yrs/15 mil.
Sign RJ/Lowe and make a trade for a SS/3b and I’d say the A’s are very close to competing.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Nov 11, 2008 7:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Sadly, probably a lot of teams can say,
“Add a pitcher, add a hitter at a tough position to fill, and we’re close to competing!”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 7:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Johnson had about a 100 ERA+ for the Yankees and about 118 for the Diamondbacks the past
4 years while facing much worse hitters. I’d expect him to get closer to Yankee levels in the AL, and he has a bad back. I’d rather trade for an innings eater and maybe sign Penny or Pavano or someone like that for the minimum. I’d also rather trade for a SS than sign Furcal, but you’re probably tired of seeing me post that.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it possible that several of the minor league prospects are major league ready?
Maybe Billy Beane likes what he sees out of Cardenas at SS and Cahill and Anderson could be ready for the rotation opening day. It seems so odd that Beane would acquire Holiday and not have more signings lined up or major league ready players in the system . I can’t wait to see how this offseason developes.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Nov 11, 2008 7:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I stand by my unwelcome prediction that come June/July, 2009
one of Cahill/Anderson will be pitching in Oakland’s rotation. My guess is Anderson.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 7:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was not trying to steal your thunder.
I just think either Forst or Beane thinks they have a couple of studs ready to go opening day. Possibly Cardenas being an upgrade over crosby for 2009 and an opening day rotation that looks like Duke, Gal, Anderson, Eveland, battle for the 5th spot. Then Cahill/Maz coming up at the Allstar break.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Nov 11, 2008 7:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing Cahill in July and Anderson in August. And they'll do well and world won't come to an end.
And we’ll get on CSN and build a stadium and be able to sign them to long term deals including their FA years and not have to worry about service clocks.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does the Middle East crisis also get solved in this scenario?
I mean, as long as we’re wishcasting here.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 7:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eventually yes.
Iraq stabilized by 2015.
Iran diplomatic relations by 2015
Israel/Palestine resolved by 2035.
Afghanistan (not sure if you count them as “Middle East”) probably around 2115.
I’ve rounded all dates to five years to avoid any connection to US election cycles and therefore avoid any political overtones. If I’ve failed to avoid politics I apologize profusely since I’m one of the most ardent opponents of involving politics in AN. Please feel free to CGV this post if I’ve not avoided it here.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
When does the Bobby Crosby crisis get solved?
Oh sorry – I thought you said Middle Least.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 7:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I find it really hard to believe that SS isn't solved by Jan 1.
Crosby is not part of the solution so he’s part of the problem.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad you're rounding to multiples of five,
meaning that in fact we not only have Crosby in 2009 but decide to extend him for one more year “just ’cuz”.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 7:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2009 on the Gregorian calendar is Year 0 ABC
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's true - that network really has been our savior
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 7:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yet at the same time
he is with us, but the way he plays he seems to be against us.
"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty
by 5Aces on Nov 11, 2008 7:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We have met the enemy
and he is Crosby.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"We have nothing to fear except Bobby himself"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes he's an excellent jeans salesman.
Ask BCG.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wishcasting, ah yes.
Do the Tigers have a CF prospect blocked by Granderson? Crosby to Detroit, CF Prospect to CWSox, Swisher to A’s. Barton to AAA taking grounders at 3b.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Nov 11, 2008 7:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Tigers have no prospects of any kind other than Rick Porcello
who’s not going anywhere.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 7:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me rephrase that.
Any CF prospects better than Willy Taveras?
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Nov 11, 2008 7:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Put an "are" after prospects,
and change the question mark to a period.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 7:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Believe it or not, no
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh. And we'll sign Holliday to a 8 year $160M deal.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All the while being completely ignored by ESPN
and Oakland ticket buyers. And Derek Jeter will be named AL MVP despite missing the last 147 games to a severely sprained butt cheek.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Madonna turned A-Rod down?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 11, 2008 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For what position?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he definitely got to third base
Save Rajai Davis
by oakinboston on Nov 11, 2008 7:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like what Harold Reynolds said " 5 years 90-100 million"
I think he is wrong on both they years and price, but I hope he is correct. Maybe if the A’s go deep in the post season he will want to stay in Oakland.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Nov 11, 2008 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes and if they match the highest bid and if he's confident about the exposure and stadium
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Short answer: No.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 7:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mazzaro and Outman in the rotation wouldn't surprise me.
I suppose Simmons could be the Greg Smith of 2009. Cunningham by June would be cool too.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That is most likely true, but why makes this trade. The most likely reason is Holiday is worth more at the AS break than the 3 the A's traded.
Holiday is just part of the full throttle rebuild. Holiday represents the new SS and/or 3b for the A’s.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Nov 11, 2008 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Congratulations
I now have no idea what your position is.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 9:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha sorry.
That was me throwing ideas against the wall trying to figure out why Matt Holiday is an Oakland Athletic. It seems to me that he is going to net a very valuable midle infielder for the A’s some point during 2009.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Nov 12, 2008 1:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I find that scenario highly implausible
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 1:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough.
So, 2 draft picks or hope to resign him? Of course he could be traded for any number of other positional prospects, but I would hope BB would trade him for a stud SS or 3b prospect as the centerpiece of a deal.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Nov 12, 2008 1:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It seems to me that the most logical explanation for Beane trading for Matt Holliday
is that he, in fact, wants Matt Holliday to play for the Oakland A’s in the 2009 season.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 1:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Which brings me back to my inital comment, which you simply answered "no" to.
What is the next step. I don’t think Matt Holiday alone makes the A’s a playoff team. Not enough pitching and still a fairly anemic offense.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Nov 12, 2008 1:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Put Davis in CF with the best defender you can find at SS
Sign Dunn for 1B. Sign Hinske or Blake to play 3B in case Chavez isn’t available.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I answered "no" to the question "are there secretly a bunch of MLB ready prospects on the farm?"
The next step is, pretty clearly, to acquire one or two more significant upgrades through free agency or, if the price isn’t too steep, trade.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 1:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is this a teaser for you upcoming rosterbation post?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know that I need to do one... there's been plenty of discussion on these threads...
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 2:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But you know you want to
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 2:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you shorten your answer please?
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Nov 11, 2008 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
G
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Walk worshipper
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's not productive
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Nov 11, 2008 8:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Productivity worshipper
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 8:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know how anybody here could worship something they sacrifice on a daily basis
Sacrifice worshippers!
by thejd44 on Nov 11, 2008 11:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There are plenty of old-school baseball fans who worship sacrifices...
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 12:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is very bad to steal Jobu's rum. Is very bad.
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Nov 12, 2008 1:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How about D. Lowe and Kenny Rogers.
My two least favorite pitchers ever.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Nov 11, 2008 7:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Only if they stage a cage match to the death and the winner is at the mercy of the crowd's thumb
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't Fidel Castro a pitcher?
miggy = communist.
by thejd44 on Nov 11, 2008 11:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing to do with my political affiliation. I just really despise the other two.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Nov 12, 2008 1:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. Lowe for crotch grabbing and Rogers for running down Oakland.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rogers for pine tar in the ALCS
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Nov 12, 2008 1:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah I hated him the minute he demanded a trade from the A's after we resurrected
his career
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade target
What about Aubrey Huff? He’s 32 next year, so he’s probably still gonna put up similar numbers. He put up monster numbers last year, so if the O’s want the world, obviously he’s not worth it. But he can “play” 3b and he does have a mid-.800 OPS bat. His salary is 8.5 million and he’s a FA after 2009.
I’d rather have Beltre personally, but Huff could be a solid pick up.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Nov 11, 2008 7:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Rebuttal: Ty Wiggington can "play" 3B as well as Huff "can,"
would be cheaper (talent-wise) to acquire, costs less, and bats right-handed. Better target?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 7:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh on both. I'm not sure which ugh is more.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, if he comes on a 1 year deal.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 11, 2008 8:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Huff...
has to be the most frequently mentioned possible trade target in the history of AN.
"Sweeney's a white Andre Ethier."--a white, drunk Billy Beane
by Cutthemullet on Nov 15, 2008 7:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
beane is not Dunn yet
and Furcal of you cust haters!
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 11, 2008 7:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
That was Lowe,
but I’m still willing Teixeira pun with you.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 7:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well I am not gunna Huff and puff on this Holliday.
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Nov 11, 2008 7:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So your're not a Randy Wolf?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 7:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no tupping aloud
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 11, 2008 7:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BOBBY CROSBY!!!!
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 12, 2008 11:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone Remember Lowe...
Saying Suck it to the A’s bench in the playoffs. I’d be a bit sour seeing him in A’s uniform.
by StewEck on Nov 11, 2008 7:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
'just say no to lowe', or sign him to whatever he wants and flip him in a year
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 11, 2008 8:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
ba dum dum
Only you can prevent (David) Forst Fires!
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 11, 2008 9:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tony the Tarrasco
He’s grrrrrrrrrrrrreat!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 9:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
personally, i'd prefer to 'dye another day'
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 11, 2008 9:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
I don’t think any number of free agent additions are going to make the A’s competitive next year, although they’re in excellent position to be competitive in 2010 if Holliday sticks around (or if Beane successfully holds somebody hostage for him over the summer).
I like the Brad Penny option best. I’d give him a one-year deal with an option for a second. Then, he can be a piece of 2010 if the gamble pays off. The Unit is a decent short-term option, but he’ll probably need to be replaced after next year.
Lowe has too much downside at his age to be worth more than a three-year commitment, and he should get one pretty easily. I’d be happier if one of those three was an option, too…anyway, Lowe’s not going to sign the bargain contract he signed last time.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Nov 11, 2008 8:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious?
No combination of free agent signings could possibly make the 2009 A’s competitive?
I’m impressed. I used to think I was a pessimist.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2008 9:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
pessimism is the new optimism
'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 11, 2008 9:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Were you optimistic when you thought that?
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Nov 11, 2008 9:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh. Probably not.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 11, 2008 9:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
If the A’s signed Manny Ramirez, Rafael Furcal, and Mark Teixeira would probably make them competitive. It won’t happen, but it would make them pretty tough to beat.
by thejd44 on Nov 12, 2008 12:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not unless they signed Sabathia too. And Rodriguez.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would cry if K-Rod were on the A's.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 12, 2008 4:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant Ivan Rodriguez
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 5:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Uber-Rodriguez
The world’s greatest over-the-hill catcher turned slick fielding SS/3B turned overrated closer.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 12, 2008 11:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe for a 1-year deal would be okay...
doubt he’d take that, though.
On another topic, Holliday is really good:
STAT OF THE DAY
NL Left Field VORP Leaders, 2008
Player, VORP
Matt Holliday COL, 60.4
Manny Ramirez LAN, 47.6
Carlos Lee HOU, 43.9
Ryan Braun MIL, 43.6
Pat Burrell PHI, 33.6
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Nov 11, 2008 8:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
And he's a way better defender than any of those guys too.
Although Braun’s supposedly average now.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 11, 2008 8:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Where's Byrnes on that list ?
Oh yeah …
by green star oakland on Nov 11, 2008 8:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
I don’t think guys who played less than 1/3 of the season (some of it hurt), were eligible for the list. I could be wrong… but, none of ’em made it.
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Nov 11, 2008 10:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
224 plate appearances gets him on the list
86/87th with only Wily Mo beneath him to cushion the fall.
by green star oakland on Nov 11, 2008 11:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wily Mo is quite the cushion
But I don’t think Byrnes needs it. He’s gritty and grindy and hardcore. He wants to fall.
by thejd44 on Nov 12, 2008 12:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
god, I could swear there were more than a few ANer's...
calling for Billy to trade for Willy Mo a few years back. I’ll have to go back and look them up. I was probably one of ‘em, so maybe I won’t. ;-)
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Nov 12, 2008 12:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
God, I could swear that there was someone on this very thread
claiming that Eric Byrnes was a good outfielder and someone the A’s should have been giving more playing time to.
Who could it have been?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 12, 2008 12:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ericbyrnesgirl?
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Nov 12, 2008 1:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've done that. I still think he was better than Payton.
I’d rather have kept Byrnes and Bradford and not had Kennedy, Payton and Witasick.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well in hindsight, sure.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 12, 2008 1:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm great at hindsight.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 12, 2008 1:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm...
didn’t take me hindsight.
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Nov 12, 2008 1:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs