Sources: A's Acquire Matt Holliday for CarGon/Smith/Street
by notsellingjeans on Nov 10, 2008 1:11 PM PST
450 comments
According to Tim Brown of Yahoo! Sports, the A's have traded Carlos Gonzalez, Greg Smith, and Huston Street for Colorado left fielder Matt Holiday.
Holiday is owed 13.5 million in '09 and then would stand to become a free agent, barring a contract extension. His agent is Scott Boras.
Huston Street is arb-eligible and has two remaining years of contractual control; Greg Smith has five remaining years of team control, and CarGon has six.
This is an update/overflow thread to Sal's excellent and incredibly timely thread below.
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Doesn't This Look Like We Overpaid?
I like Holliday, but given he’s an FA after the season, doesn’t sending CarGon, Street and Smith seem like overkill? I understand Street’s lowered value, and Smith was durable but not exciting, but CarGon had some strong potential to hold down an outfield spot for some time. I’m interested to see if this is the last we hear of it.
More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/
by louismg on Nov 10, 2008 1:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I
don’t think Beane would get rid of one of the best prospects they have if he didn’t know they’d be able to re-sign Holliday.
At least I hope not …
by what_the_crap on Nov 10, 2008 1:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I don’t think Beane would make such an uncalculated move. He must be pretty damn sure he can sign him. Either that or he already has deal ready to flip him.
by methodrampage on Nov 10, 2008 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That or...
He believes the team can contend next season
by GusanoQuemador on Nov 10, 2008 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Could that mean that he's working on the other pieces?
i.e. Giambi?
Though I would prefer to get Swisher back from the White Sox since they are shopping him around.
by LoneStranger on Nov 10, 2008 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking that....
"Hey dad my Jack Cust Bobblehead is batting right handed"....."He's not batting right handed he's striking out swinging."
by What Would Rickey Do on Nov 10, 2008 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Less Giambi and more Furcal/Beltre/etc I'd imagine
But yes, this does suggest that either we flip him or improve the rest of our team.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yea
And the Furcal rumors are still floating
by GusanoQuemador on Nov 10, 2008 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
boras is his agent
doubt he’d re-sign before testing the market
by echerrst on Nov 10, 2008 1:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If it were Sweeney, Buck or Cunningham then I get it but Cargon?
Looks like a bad deal if this is in fact what’s been agreed upon.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on Nov 10, 2008 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
MrIncognito posted on the other thread
a quote from SuSlu
A source said extending Holliday’s contract is not part of the deal. Holliday’s agent is Scott Boras, who is well-known for driving hard bargains.
Save Rajai Davis
by oakinboston on Nov 10, 2008 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"bargains"?
scott boras client and bargain do not go together.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 10, 2008 4:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I found smith very exciting actually. I did. Could be just me. But I think he was overpaid. If the A’s were sure to have him for say..the next 4 years or so..i wouldn’t think so as much but for someone who will be a FA..I don’t like the deal
by ilovegregsmith on Nov 10, 2008 1:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Overpaid?
Wasnt Smith making league minimum?
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Nov 10, 2008 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think ilovegregsmith meant that the A's overpaid for Holliday.
Just by looking at the context of ilovegregsmith’s post.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 1:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, doesnt read like that, but ok...was just confusing.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Nov 10, 2008 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow...
That LarrysWeightLoss.com ad is a tad too revealing
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Nov 10, 2008 1:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
But seriously
How many triangles are in drawing?
by methodrampage on Nov 10, 2008 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll trade for my answer to the "How many lines are in the drawing?"
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Nov 10, 2008 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That is correct.
I sent a note to Clockwerks and Blez. Me no likey.
More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/
by louismg on Nov 10, 2008 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is my favorite weight loss ad...
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Really!? Tell me more!
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Nov 10, 2008 1:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what are the chances
we trade him at the deadline to reload even more? or do we really think we can resign him
by travdog6 on Nov 10, 2008 1:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Should we be looking to "reload even more," though?
Unless we could get a few players that are very near MLB ready, it doesn’t make much sense to (in essence) trade MLB ready players like CGon and Greg Smith for a bunch of dudes who won’t be ready until 2012.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i guess reload wasnt the word
but is this just a means to get more players? maybe a way to find a 3b? im just having trouble grasping this
by travdog6 on Nov 10, 2008 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with ya
It seems so weird to me to trade from a well of relative strength (OF) and not address a relative weakness (left side of INF).
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 1:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless you look at it this way
Having someone who you can PEN in at #3 is an absolute weakness for the A’s. Or rather, it was.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point
We dramatically improved the top 3, yet we must continue to endure the back end 3.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There's basically 4 possible scenarios
1. Holliday signs a crazy expensive contract extension and in 3 years people are bitching about “The Damn Contract” like Jermaine Dye
2. Holliday plays out 2009, walks, and the A’s get 2 draft picks.
3. Holliday is dealt at the 2009 trade deadline because the A’s aren’t in contention.
4. Holliday is traded tomorrow.
by mikev on Nov 10, 2008 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade to the Cards?
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Nov 10, 2008 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
for Ludwick and someone? Or target Rasmus and change?
by echerrst on Nov 10, 2008 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Matt Holliday for Ryan Ludwick?
Trade a legitimate all-star for an older, flukey outfielder? I don’t see that happening. Rasmus + change seems more likely.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Supposely
The Cards backed out of contention for Holliday this weekend, when the Rockies wanted Ludwick and Cards refused to deal him.
by Athletix Man on Nov 10, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No
Cards offered Ludwick and some other stuff and the Rockies weren’t interested. Probably wanted Rasmus and the Cards balked.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Nov 10, 2008 2:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Could be true, I read somewhere the opposite
But with rumors, you hear all kinds of things. But yours is probably true.
by Athletix Man on Nov 10, 2008 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i hope it's #4
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 10, 2008 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the A's can resign him. I think an extension would be timed.
Chavez, the A’s only other large payroll commitment is signed through 2010.
Most of the A’s young players won’t be starting arbitration until 2011. Chavez will conveniently be off the books before the A’s have to start worrying about the young players getting pricey(although I want to see some young guys locked up to team friendly contracts).
The net difference in per year salary b/w Chavez and Holliday will probably be about 10MM per year. The A’s can sustain that, easily.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I think we have to re-sign him now that we’ve traded for him.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Somebody should go through and list all the Boras clients who signed extensions instead of going to FA.
I’m sure it’s a really short list.
by mikev on Nov 10, 2008 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, man, I don't like the sound of this:
"Holliday is slated to earn $13.5 million this season and can become a free agent after the 2009 World Series. Prior to the start of this past season, the Rockies offered Holliday an $85 million deal over five years that included four years guaranteed at $65 million.
But Holliday, who is a client of agent Scott Boras, turned down the offer."
Source: Barry M. Bloom, OaklandAthletics.com
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 1:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
It may take 7 years to keep him
7 years, $120M?
Any way we can do that contract with Boras before the year begins?
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Nov 10, 2008 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we can.
It’s sustainable on payroll, yes.
I prefer 6/120 though. Same money, less committment.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what would the point of cutting a year off the contract be
with the money being the same?
True that it may take $20M per year – hopefully teams (NYY!) aren’t too crazy this year!
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Nov 10, 2008 1:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Makes it more attractive.
Maybe add a team option to the end of the deal.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 1:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To Holliday
But I’d much rather the A’s do a 7/120 than a 6/120. I imagine that it would take more like 7/150.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if I like the idea of Matt Holliday playing baseball for the A's at age 35
But I don’t know if even 7/120 gets him. I’m betting Boras will push for $20 million/season+
Maybe Holliday will take a discount to play for a perennial contenderhahahahahahahaha, sorry, couldn’t say it with a straight face.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The A's will be a perennial contender with Holliday and young talent.
They were perennial contenders from 2000-2006, if I do say so myself. Just because they didn’t get far in the playoffs doesn’t mean they didn’t contend.
2009 is the only question mark.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 1:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Should have been clearer
I was saying the less-than-believable part is a Boras client taking a discount.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 1:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I take offense to this comment.
Boras is clearly a patron saint. The guy does nothing but good for society. He spends every Christmas delivering meals to the homeless and helping schoolchildren cross the street. How dare you, sir. How dare you.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Boras coined the term "Zicasso"
Pure comedic genius
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Nov 10, 2008 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fire Boras Now!
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, OK.
He won’t take a discount, but the A’s snagging him at market value is a possibility.
And, Holliday puts the ink on the dotted line, not Boras. It’s ultimately his decision.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does Holliday have any particular reason
to want to play in Oakland, beyond money?
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Accessible public transportation (BART) to the staidum
Works for Andrew Brown : )
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Nov 10, 2008 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And it worked for Street.
How much do we want to bet that Street is looking at a public transportation map of Denver right now?
by LoneStranger on Nov 10, 2008 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I don't know where all this
“A’s planning to sign him next year” talk is coming from. This sounds more and more like a John Mabry/Johnny Damon type deal to me.
Bob Geren, on 8/2/07, on the success of Alan Embree as new interim closer: "What can I say,... he's been our Steady Tremendous Bullpen Man"
by popcornjames on Nov 10, 2008 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can somebody please make sense of this.
I am lost for words. Two sandwich picks don’t equal a known prospect like CarGo do they??
by throttle mathius on Nov 10, 2008 1:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Payroll increase to 80 mil
- Robothal reports:
Over the weekend, the teams discussed A’s outfielder Carlos Gonzalez, left-hander Greg Smith and reliever Huston Street, according to one source, but it is not known if any or all of those players will be included in the package for Holliday.
…
The A’s are not acquiring him with the intention of flipping him or even trading him in July. The team is in position to increase its payroll to as much as $80 million, and plans to contend next season.
****
Could this be possible?
by Wreckonized on Nov 10, 2008 1:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Foot in mouth.
Here I go saying the A’s are going to flip Holliday in July, and Rosenthal is saying they won’t. How often is Rosenthal right?
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd just like to say..
That once again I’m totally wrong about everything. Damnit. I just spent the past week here ranting about how Matt Holliday would be a horrible idea. My only hope for this deal is that the A’s intend to flip him in July for a higher return.
I’m just glad Travis Buck isn’t involved in this deal.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
+1
I’ve been pitching to co-workers that this would be the worst idea ever… Unless we already had FA’s in house to knock in. (Furcal + 3B)
With this pkg. we could’ve gotten Rollins + another bat.
The Stockton Ports pitching staff is better than the Orioles.
by gdub171 on Nov 10, 2008 3:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In what universe?
We gave up a good closer, a good prospect coming off a tough year (when he was promoted before he was ready), and a #5/LR pitcher who just had elbow surgery.
That may get Rollins. It did get Holliday. It doesn’t look like overpaying to me.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 3:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This move only makes sense
if we ARE increasing Payroll to 80 Million, and signing say, Furcal and maybe Giambi.
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Nov 10, 2008 1:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
And, of course, also signing Holliday.
Although I still fail to understand why we’d want Giambi anywhere near this team.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Because he is a very good offensive player?
If we signed Giambi he would most likely be our second most productive hitter, behind only Holliday.
Holliday 2008 OPS: .947
Giambi 2008 OPS: .876
Cust 2008 OPS: .861
www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.
by ChadGod on Nov 10, 2008 3:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Almost certainly untrue.
Cust 2008: 33 HR, 111 BB, 132 OPS+ (147 in 2007)
Giambi: 32 HR, 76 BB, 128 OPS+ (108 in 2007).
Oh, and Giambi is 38 while Cust is 30.
Which do I think will be better, the old one coming off the worse year or the young(ish) one coming off the better year? Hmmm….
And, of course, Giambi’s defense will cost us a ton of runs. Cust will hold down the DH spot just fine.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thoughts
I’m not sure what to think of this one yet.
Even out of Coors, Holliday’s still a pretty solid hitter. He did play in a division that had Dodger Stadium, Petco Park and AT&T Park. The cost to keep him is going to be high and I wouldn’t be surprised if the A’s either traded him at the deadline (even if they say they won’t now) or let him walk for the draft picks at the end of the year.
Giving up Smith? No big deal. Decent pitcher but the A’s have a system loaded with good pitching.
Giving up Street? Also no big deal. Closers aren’t hard to find and while I liked Street, the A’s can do well with Joey Devine and/or Brad Ziegler at the end of the game, though I’d say Devine has the better stuff. Ziegler works best in high-pressure situations where a ground ball is needed.
Giving up Gonzalez? This is one where time will tell if it’s a good move or not. He had his moments in the Majors but I think he needs a little more time in the Minors first. He didn’t walk very much and while his defense is excellent it seems the A’s don’t quite think he’s ready yet and don’t have the patience to wait and see.
Holliday’s name had come up for the A’s before but I didn’t think they’d make a move to get him unless they were going to try to contend with him (or extend him).
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Nov 10, 2008 1:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Giving up Carlos makes more sense to me if Holliday is 26
But he’s already in his peak, and will likely start declining in the near future— and that only impacts the A’s IF they can sign him to a longer deal.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday's 29 come Opening Day, though. That's still fine.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Nov 10, 2008 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That whole peak thing doesnt apply to certain hitters
There’s no way to really tell who’s going to age well and who will break down. Perhaps playing in that high altitude will somehow help to preserve him (not serious).
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Nov 10, 2008 2:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather we have given up Sweeney than Gonzalez though
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Nov 10, 2008 1:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Has Gonzalez been confirmed though?
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No. Nothing has (except maybe Smith)
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a Sweeney man-crush...
… and even I agree with that statement.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea we all would.
Too bad the Rockies dont agree.
by Athletix Man on Nov 10, 2008 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
unfortunately the AN girls don't run the rockies
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 10, 2008 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
wtf
i don’t know.
Badges, we don't need no stinkin Badges!
by henry85 on Nov 10, 2008 1:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I hate this deal. No matter how you shake it out, unless we sign him to a long term deal, we gave up 3 major leaguers for a 1 year rental.
by HuskerFan on Nov 10, 2008 1:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
i am sure Billy Beane have something planned out…
by Wreckonized on Nov 10, 2008 1:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
WoW.
Im shocked. Theres just no way this deal gets done without extending Holiday. I Guess thats means Beane thinks Sweeneys our CFer of the future. Buck in LF and Cunningham in RF.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Nov 10, 2008 1:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Where's Jack Cust in that scenario?
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
DH
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Nov 10, 2008 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But you're talking
CF – Sweeney
LF – Buck
RF – Cunningham
DH – Cust
So where’s Holliday?
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Playing over one of the other OF, naturally
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Nov 10, 2008 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
on the DL?
He sees our training staff…
plays in April… season ends in May… sign 1-year deal for 2010.
We win the WS behind our young talent and Holiday and blah blah in 2010!!!
by buddahead9 on Nov 10, 2008 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ROFL
I totally forgot who we were trading for… Ok Cunningham and Buck Platoon. OR whoevere is not hurt plays.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Nov 10, 2008 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That last is the most likely
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"Whoever is not hurt plays"
that sounds like our mantra, I like it.
by schmifty on Nov 10, 2008 8:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The East Bay Area Oakland A's of Fremont, San Jose:
“Whoever is not hurt plays.”
I’ll buy that for a dollar……..wait, how much are dollars to the pound these days?
by OldhamA on Nov 11, 2008 3:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
DH
Which is where he belongs.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Nov 10, 2008 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
DH
Beane's World!! Excellent!!! Rock On, Beane! Rock On, Geren!
by Satchmo22 on Nov 10, 2008 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey guys
is Jack Cust going to DH at all? Just wondering.
Thanks,
Vorp
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
only when he hits
Beane's World!! Excellent!!! Rock On, Beane! Rock On, Geren!
by Satchmo22 on Nov 10, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If only we had some sort of reader commenting system to shed light on this!
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 10, 2008 2:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Disabled Hitter
Naturally
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So you're saying there's a chance?
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Nov 10, 2008 2:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra
by Cheezombie on Nov 10, 2008 3:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Backstop...as in every ball hitting the backstop
Just like that one inning in little league in which I (pretended) to play catcher.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Nov 10, 2008 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also..
Gio Seems in the rotation now as well.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Nov 10, 2008 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot about holliday in the corner outfield
by Wreckonized on Nov 10, 2008 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I totally did..LoL
To excited.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Nov 10, 2008 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
YA!!!!
I’m just going to be a A’s fan for a moment and say YES! It’s been a long time since the A’s brought in someone this good. Can I dare to dream they’ll re-sign him. Hooray for the magic Beane and go A’s
by briandouglas on Nov 10, 2008 1:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
As it stands, I still don't see this team competing in '09
Billy must be looking into a different crystal ball than I am! As presently constructed, this team competes only if:
- Chavez returns to health and provides a dependable bat
- Duke stays healthy all year
- The bullpen guys stay healthy (Casilla, Brown, Devine all spent time on the DL last year)
- Someone plays better than Barton at 1B
- a #4 starter emerges.
it’s a tough sell right now – there must be something else coming…
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Nov 10, 2008 1:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hoping for health sounds similar to the last couple years.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Nov 10, 2008 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like Furcal is a pretty strong possibility
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Nov 10, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Barton playing better than Barton at 1B is the most likely of the 5 req's
The kid will remember how to hit.
Please?
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
One bad MLB season is not career-ending. Look at Albert Pujols in 2002.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Noting sarcasm
At least I assume there is sarcasm considering he went .314/.394/.561 as a 22 year old
Goliath, dissatisfied with his size advantage, decided to buy David's sling, which took steroids.
by TexasAsfan on Nov 10, 2008 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a down year.
For Pujols.
:)
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ops under 1000?!?!?!
horrible for that guy. in all seriousness. he is so fucking good. barton for pujols straight up. you heard it first right here
by travdog6 on Nov 10, 2008 1:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It actually is
and he finished 2nd in MVP voting that year.
Goliath, dissatisfied with his size advantage, decided to buy David's sling, which took steroids.
by TexasAsfan on Nov 10, 2008 1:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So my point wasn't sarcasm.
My point was that Albert Pujols is freaking awesome. Thank you and goodnight.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I’m looking at his stats on baseball reference, and they are incredible.
Goliath, dissatisfied with his size advantage, decided to buy David's sling, which took steroids.
by TexasAsfan on Nov 10, 2008 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know who will play better than Barton...
September Barton!!!!!
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Nov 10, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Makes sense
CarGon is Beane’s least favorite type of player, stylistically. Horrible K to walk ratio and already old enough to suggest that that’s the type of player he’ll always be. If the A’s waited another year, CarGon’s value might be half of what it is right now. It’s somewhat of a gamble, but it’s an educated gamble.
Next spring was probably going to be awkward: CarGon not wanting to return to Sacramento, and the team wanting him to. This helps avoid that.
The fact that CarGon was in the initial package speaks volumes about the team’s feeling about him. It’s not like he was reluctantly thrown in.
Greg Smith’s value has already peaked. Perfect time to trade him.
Street was going to be dealt at some point – might as well acquire a great hitter for him. Plus, it cleans up some of the confusion in the bullpen entering spring. Roles can be more clearly defined now.
This is a trade that will have at least slightly positive effects on chemistry, because it makes several guys’ roles more clearly defined.
As for Holliday…
With apologies to Adrian Beltre, the A’s just acquired, unquestionably, the best offensive player on the ‘10 FA market. And unlike many special hitters, Holiday is an excellent defender, too. And the current mindset of the A’s is clearly to prioritize defense. Plus, he hits from the right side.
This also might help the team sign Jason Giambi or (less likely in my mind) Furcal, because it makes a very positive statement to them.
It also gives the team an alibi NOT to sign them, if the money isn’t right or if neither player wants to come here.
Awesome move. Builds excitement, makes the team less dependent on the unpredictable FA market, makes the team more attractive to potential FAs, solves a few positional question marks.
Probably where you stand on this deal depends upon your opinion of CarGon’s potential. I love the deal, and not coincidentally, I look at CarGon and see horrible plate discipline. Other people see much more.
But potential and a quarter will get you a cup of coffee.
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Nov 10, 2008 1:40 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
where do you get coffee for a quarter?
more like $1.75
it is not possible to strategize while the ball is coming towards you
by eastcoasta'sfan on Nov 10, 2008 1:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like this take on things.
Good insight.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you think Giambi is so likely?
Over the hill, banged up, expensive, and now he’d HAVE to play 1B
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 1:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on most of your points...
… other than that I have more faith in Carlos’s ability to continue to mature.
Regardless, this deal can’t be justified if the A’s don’t sign Holliday to a longer deal, right? All of that for 1 year?
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 1:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really see the A's
matching Boras’s demands? He’s going to want a 6 or 7 year deal for Matt Holliday. The A’s will be paying the guy 20+ million well into his mid 30’s? I just can’t fathom the A’s doing something like that.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It helps to have about 15 cents committed to your entire roster
And approaching the “goodbye Chavez Albatross” year.
And, you know, spending it on one of the best OF in baseball.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is he going to be one of the best OF in baseball
3 or 4 years from now?
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Early thirties? No reason he has to fall off a cliff
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's got a pretty broad skillset
He’s not the stereotypical lumbering corner OF. He’s kinda like a better version of Swisher.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 10, 2008 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good comparison, actually
The difference being Holliday is a pure righty and steals bases.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 10, 2008 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's sort of what I'm getting at
If the A’s don’t get Holliday signed long-term— and I think they won’t, at least not at typical Boras numbers— then they (maybe) gave up a guy who was under control for 6 more years for a guy who will be around for 1. And that 1 year will not be the year that the A’s are in the midst of perpetual domination/contention. And that doesn’t even take into account the reliable #4/#5 starter they have (definitely) given up without a clear replacement already in the system (at least, if you think like me that Gio isn’t ready yet).
Again, I’m not trying to be a Debbie Downer. I just don’t see how the deal works out positively for the A’s as it is reported. I’m not real bullish on getting a player to puts butts in seats— I want players who are looking to help out long-term.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm under the impression
that people like to see winning teams, not aging stars on losing teams.
To me, it seems like the A’s HAVE to flip him at the deadline.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is what makes me think that Beane is not done yet.
Either Holliday is flipped, or some more FA/Big trades are done.
by LoneStranger on Nov 10, 2008 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not totally unreasonable to sign Holliday.
Say, 6/105 or so. S*** gets expensive for 2 years, especially if Giambi signs, like, 3/40. That’s still a payroll of about 65-70 million. If the A’s somehow ditch Crosby, the payroll goes down to roughly 2005 levels. Getting Chavez off the books after 2010 is huge, because then the Holliday contract won’t be too much of a burden going forward. I’d say the A’s made this move with the intention of keeping Holliday.
by BWH on Nov 10, 2008 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
3/40 for Giambi (or, imo, singing Giambi at all) is crazy
Our 2009 payroll is like $27M plus Holliday, we can afford to pay him the 6/120 or so he’ll cost. In fact, we’d be crazy not to.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He OPS'd .827 on the road last season.
That’s better than any other 1B option next year by a mile, even considering the terrible defense.
Except maybe Swisher. He’d be a nice 1B option.
by BWH on Nov 10, 2008 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's 38, can't play defense, and has tons of injury risks
I’d much rather have Barton try this MLB thing again.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How about 2 years guaranteed at $10 million guaranteed...
With performance clauses potentially moving it up to $16 million or so annually, with a team option for a 3rd year at the same rate.
by BWH on Nov 10, 2008 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So, basically, eff you Daric Barton?
And hello 40 year old roidless Giambi?
No thanks… I’d much rather have Furcal.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much.
I’d rather have Giambi and potentially include Barton in a swap for a SS.
by BWH on Nov 10, 2008 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW, Olney says there is virtually no chance on the A's signing Holliday long-term
Which, of course, doesn’t necessarily make it true. But still. His take is that this is a move designed to help out a young pitching stuff to learn to “win at the major league level.” I’m hoping that’s pure speculation and general codswallop (thank you, PT), because that sounds like THE worst reason to make this trade that I’ve heard yet.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like pure speculative bs to me.
Learn to “win at the major league level.” WTF does that even mean? It’s like guys having “pop”.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Olney's statement, translated by me
“The A’s never do long term contracts, so I’m predicting they won’t now.”
Fortunately, Beane innovates.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Olney
maybe this means we will sign him. Olney’s predictions have negative value.
by MrIncognito on Nov 10, 2008 2:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
why would holliday sign a long term deal w the a’s. he wants to win and i dont think he is going to think that the a’s can do this now
but maybe beane is going to start to spend on offense, which would be great
by jhroac02 on Nov 10, 2008 2:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His agent is Boras
Which means what he wants is money.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I saw what Olney said...
then Rosenthal said virtually the exact opposite, that it wasn’t a one-year rental.
I’m leaning toward believing Rosenthal, if only because Wolff is in charge.
by BWH on Nov 10, 2008 2:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, since when is Holliday an excellent defender?
by mikev on Nov 10, 2008 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For a while.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Nov 10, 2008 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the fielding stats love him
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Nov 10, 2008 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you notsellingjeans
You just wrote my post. Your post is the most reasonable I’ve read yet on the Matt Holiday threads. The only thing I disagree on is, signing Giambi. But well written and thank you for having the right outlook.
by bdemartin on Nov 10, 2008 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes
I’m surprised so many people are so high on CarGon. The list of toolsy outfielders with no plate discipline who don’t pan out is about as long as the bible. He may indeed do so but his chances are fairly low. Smith is fungible, and Street is a reliever. A year of Holliday is valuable. 2 draft picks are valuable. Is this a slam dunk victory? No, but it’s pretty good.
by jdr on Nov 10, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
NSJ, Great summary
About how I feel about it.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Nov 10, 2008 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
100% agree
Car Gon struggled big time once he was figured out. His discipline was terrible. The Street loss is to be expected although I think many on AN had this dream he would bring back a few prospects. Remember this is the same guy who was demoted to a 6th and 7th inning role late in the season and barely had any interest at the deadline.
Losing Smith sucks a little bit but when looking at our staff we could afford to lose someone with Cahill, Anderson and co. coming up soon.
the only question remaining is how long does the Holliday last? 1/2 of 09’, all 09’ or beyond?
by HRH on Nov 10, 2008 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rule 5 Draft
Keep wondering if he was positioning to free up some spots on the 40man.
The Stockton Ports pitching staff is better than the Orioles.
by gdub171 on Nov 10, 2008 3:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
giambi, furcal
sign Jason Giambi or (less likely in my mind) Furcal
i’d say the holliday trade makes it more likely the a’s go after furcal than giambi or dunn.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 10, 2008 4:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Never before in the history of AN
Have so many been down on so much for so little reason.
Holliday is a proven young stud. Cargon, and Smith are not proven and Street, unfortunately, may be proven but not a stud. Cargon could be one though definitely has NOT shown it, and Smith is a future good #4.
We have several good relievers and a rotation full of #4 starters. Now, I’d love to see a real SS and a top of the line pitcher as badly as anyone else, and they could yet be acquired this year. Note, we did not give up any stud SS or SP.
But what is the #1 problem on this team? Oh, yeah . . . THEY CAN’T HIT and THEY DON’T SPEND MONEY. BB changed both of those things in one stroke.
What’s not to like?
it is not possible to strategize while the ball is coming towards you
by eastcoasta'sfan on Nov 10, 2008 1:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I can think of 2 things i dont like
1) 1 year
2) Scott Boras
to me, these are a big deal
Save Rajai Davis
by oakinboston on Nov 10, 2008 1:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeahbut
i’m assuming bb knows this and will sign holliday. but you’re right that he needs to sign holliday LT for this to work out.
it is not possible to strategize while the ball is coming towards you
by eastcoasta'sfan on Nov 10, 2008 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I'll just post this in every thread
Slusser:
A source said extending Holliday’s contract is not part of the deal. Holliday’s agent is Scott Boras, who is well-known for driving hard bargains.
by MrIncognito on Nov 10, 2008 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That really doesn't matter
Beane has to know what’s it’s going to take to resign him, I mean that’s a pretty important part of his job, right? I’m of the opinion that for this deal to make sense Beane is going to resign him whether it’s now or by the end of the season.
by methodrampage on Nov 10, 2008 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn’t matter that someone inside the A’s said a contract is not part of the bargain? I’m very confused.
He’s a free agent at the end of this year. There’s no benefit to signing him later – you might as well just wait until he’s a FA and save yourself the prospects (Smith/Street/Cargon is worth a lot more than the draft pick you give up).
by MrIncognito on Nov 10, 2008 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All that quote means is that he comes to the A's unextended
NOT that they’ll never extend him.
Method’s point is that this isn’t a big deal because what it takes to extend isn’t hard to imagine (only hard to pay). Signing him first isn’t really necessary.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It just means that the deal isn't contingent on an extension
It doesn’t mean the A’s aren’t planning on resigning him.
by methodrampage on Nov 10, 2008 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"not part of the deal" does not mean they won't sign him sometime this offseason
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Nov 10, 2008 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That still makes no sense. Why would a player be more inclined to sign with a team he has never played for, even if they do have him on a one year contract? There’s no bargaining leverage the A’s have now that they wouldn’t have had next off season. If anything, playing in the coliseum is going to make it less likely they work out a deal.
by MrIncognito on Nov 10, 2008 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Based on what?
The leverage is that Holliday could get hurt, will probably see his numbers decline some, etc.
Signing soon guarantees he’s a rich man the rest of his life. Waiting leaves the door open for disaster to strike.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 3:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday already turned down a 4 yr/$60 million offer from the Rockies
He was quoted as saying he was looking for 8 years as a free agent. Now he’s going to sign a favorable deal with a team he doesn’t know?
That’s crazy talk.
by MrIncognito on Nov 10, 2008 3:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well since I'm talking more like 6/120 than 4/60
I’m not expecting a favorable deal, just a market rate one.
Again, what makes you say having exclusive rights for a year makes it less likely he signs with us?
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 3:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Again, what’s the advantage? If we were willing to pay market rate, we could compete on the market, and still have 3 more players.
by MrIncognito on Nov 10, 2008 7:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The advantage is that there's no crazy team to jump in with 6/150 and blow the whole thing up
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 9:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The advantage is
You’d be paying market value for his production outside of Coors. Holliday’s value after playing a year outside of Coors might be less than it would after playing another year inside Coors.
by methodrampage on Nov 11, 2008 9:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It depends on the comparative value for Coorsless numbers vs. contract year bump.
by MrIncognito on Nov 11, 2008 4:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I posted this above, but MrIncognito had Slusser quoted as saying
“A source said extending Holliday’s contract is not part of the deal. Holliday’s agent is Scott Boras, who is well-known for driving hard bargains.”
Save Rajai Davis
by oakinboston on Nov 10, 2008 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was trying to figure out what LaDainian Tomlinson had to do with this
then I realized you meant ‘long term’
"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball
by JLeverenz on Nov 10, 2008 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at it this way
WE got 6 players from arizona for dan haren, including CarGon and G Smith
now we trade those 2 and street for holliday
When you add it all up, we actullay traded Dan Haren, Cargon, greg smith and street for Matt Holliday and 4 prospect
i think it works out pretty nice
by Wreckonized on Nov 10, 2008 1:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I like your thinking
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Nov 10, 2008 1:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the haren trade was fucking unbelievable
how do people criticize bb for this one?
by travdog6 on Nov 10, 2008 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who's criticizing him for that trade?
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Nov 10, 2008 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
many people here did at the time
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 10, 2008 5:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
except that
it is VERY questionable if the A’s will be able to extend Holliday. I think you cannot ignore that point (please see post above from MrIncognito with Slusser’s quote)
Save Rajai Davis
by oakinboston on Nov 10, 2008 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes... but
Holliday is what 10 years younger then Manny Ramirez, and if they are looking for a similar long term contract i would put my money in Holliday. it is hard but not impossible for the A’s to sign Holliday to an extension
by Wreckonized on Nov 10, 2008 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We also got
a pretty crappy 2008 out of that deal too. To a fanbase that had accepted rebuilding, maybe not a big deal.
by Sliderule on Nov 10, 2008 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
With Haren we would’ve had a marginally better 2008. There was at least some optimism early in the season when we had a better run differential than the Halos for the 1st 3rd of the season.
The Stockton Ports pitching staff is better than the Orioles.
by gdub171 on Nov 10, 2008 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
or Mulder and Street
for Barton/Holliday/Anderson/Carter/Eveland/Cunningham
by buddahead9 on Nov 10, 2008 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and a couple good years of Haren
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Nov 10, 2008 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
See!
think outside the box=D
BB knows what he is doing
by Wreckonized on Nov 10, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
AAAAAH! AAAAAH!
What a blockbuster deal. I’m still reeling.
by danmerqury on Nov 10, 2008 1:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
THIS IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We traded a crappy starter, a diminishing closer and a legit prospect/starter and get the best bat in the game! YAY for BB to pull off another monster trade. Now let’s keep him around!
I dream of Fremont and rainbows
by OptimistPrime on Nov 10, 2008 1:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
too bad holliday is NOT the best bat in the game.
but yeah, it looks better if you make things up.
also, street is a good closer.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 10, 2008 5:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What a great day. I get excused from Jury Duty and we get Holiday.
Sweet.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
by Syphon on Nov 10, 2008 1:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Tomorrow is a Holiday for me and today is a vacation day made into a Holliday
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Nov 10, 2008 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the
way I look at it. Street?? Oh well….nobody is heartbroken. Smith?? Oh well, had a good rookie year but his peripherals suggest his ERA should have been closer to 5 then 4. He’s a back of the rotation starter and i’m scared to see what happens to him in COL. Gonzalez…..ouch. Yes it sucks, but did anybody really think we were going to score a slugger of Holliday’s talent without giving up an “ouch”?? Beane has $40 million to spend this offseason if need be. He can still make some more substantial moves, and can work on an extension for Holliday. For once they actually have the means to do this.
by JPShark on Nov 10, 2008 1:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
This trades no sense at all.
This is the type of trade a contender makes to put itself over the top. This is not the trade that a team that is rebuilding makes. Very perplexing to say the least.
by Pucking Insane on Nov 10, 2008 1:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
+1
We’ll just have to see if there is a chpt 2 to the story, I guess. Cause as an ending it stinks.
"Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it."
-Thomas Jefferson
by thinwhiteduke on Nov 10, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wanna hear what PaulThomas has to say about this.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 1:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure you'll get your wish.
I don’t think the guy ever has a shortage of things to say.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
How dare he
not check in at AN for a full 24 hours.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 10, 2008 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
MLB trade rumors is saying that CarGon/Street/Smith
is a solid offer for Holliday if you also consider the two first round draft picks the A’s would get if they can’t sign Holliday
by OaklandSi on Nov 10, 2008 1:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
road stats
1. It makes way more sense to use an OPS+ type measure that combines home/road stats than to just look at his road stats, where there is a bigger split that one would expect. Unless there is some good reason to think that he would have much higher than expected splits, it’s safer to assume that it’s more or less random.
2. His splits have basically converged for his whole career, and his .805 or whatever it is career road ops mostly has to do with him being pretty bad on the road in 2004 and 2005.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Nov 10, 2008 1:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
relax everyone, is not that bad
this scout says cargon- pretty good
smith- 5th start/long reiever
lets temper our enthusiasm that cargon is gonna be a star. A’s like the approaches of sweeney/cunningham at the same age. plus A’s wanted crisp as early as last week…they have ammo to pull it off…they’ll be fine in cf even with davis/denorfia too
we didnt touch the farm system plus have more money to spend..worst case scenario, beane recoups at the deadline just a good a haul for holliday
street/smith are non factors IMO
now sign giambi/furcal, maybe trade for crisp
get an mlb ready 3b like craig, freese, etc
http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/11618874
But the Athletics are attempting to win public support for a new stadium and are telling other clubs that they intend to increase their payroll significantly for 2009 in an effort to contend. The A’s opened 2008 with a payroll of about $48 million.
by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 10, 2008 1:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
You could very well be right
I just take issue with acquiring someone with the intent of flipping them at the deadline next season. Lots of things wrong with that thought process to me.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's CarGon that I miss
Street is very good, but Devine was better last year. It hurts to lose Street more than I feel some ANers think, but I have no problem trading some value for a good player.
Smith is not a priority for the A’s. Good guy to trade.
Here’s my problem: The 2009 A’s are going to probably be a fringe contender at best. Even with Holliday in the OF, if they sign Furcal and Giambi, that puts them in the playoff picture, but the pitching is still thin. They still look like a team with a 50-ish% chance of winning the division. After that, Holliday is gone, and the 2010 A’s are likely worse for the deal. The draft picks are nice, but I wasn’t aware we were playing for 2014. So we just got 2009 Holiday + draft picks at the cost of a 2010 team minus CarGon plus whatever Street and Smith could have brought back. That’s a little bit dubious.
I do like the fact that we at least dealt from our strength, though, which is OF and pitching.
by MrIncognito on Nov 10, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just a nitpick
But I really really don’t believe Smith could have brought back anything of any value. His peripherals are lousy. From a scouting standpoint, he’s a flyball pitcher with a mediocre fastball, control / command that isnt special, having to constantly pitch outside or on the edges to try to get hitters to chase.
Beane probably trade Smith at the height of his value, coming off a decent looking ERA that was aided by park, and probably some good luck.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 10, 2008 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
as a throw in with street, it would have been something shiny and interesting at least.
by MrIncognito on Nov 10, 2008 3:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to be the guy that keeps bringing this up but...
As much as we love to talk about baseball here, the fact remains the A’s are a BUSINESS entity for Lew Wolff and co. They are currently reeling from a terrible year at the gate and an ever more increasingly uphill battle to secure a south bay/Fremont stadium. Lew got into this with the intention of doing a real estate flip on a stadium deal. This may not happen now. Which means he needs the team to be attractive looking to a potential buyer/another market.
His announcement last week that he is willing to increase to $80 Mil and contend this year, supports this. Marketing has a huge deal to play in this. He needs NAMES, not future prospects.
I hope that Billy can sign him and that the deal goes through in Fremont, becuase if it doesnt, we may be seeing the beginning of the end of baseball in the East Bay
"I was right and you were wrong." - Ray Fosse
by kbtoyz on Nov 10, 2008 2:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Crisp is ass.
Straight butt
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Nov 10, 2008 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does that mean he's good or he's bad?
I honestly can’t tell. You kids and your crazy slang.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 10, 2008 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, what if the Rockies flip Huston Street to the Angels?
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Nov 10, 2008 1:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I hope he turns into a horrible pitcher then.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Then we can be the time to light him up in the 9th, instead of the other way round
by bdemartin on Nov 10, 2008 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean Greg Smith?
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You know what would be funny?
If CarGon goes in for a secret surgery today…similar to Greg Smith’s unknown surgery…and how nobody knew why Street lost velocity on his fastball in the middle of the season because of a hushed groin problem.
Procrastinators unite....tomorrow
by muffinpryde on Nov 10, 2008 2:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
He'd better wait 48 hours until the deal is finalized
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hushed Groin Problem
Yet another of the bands monkeyball played for in high school.
by Englishmajor on Nov 10, 2008 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They actually opened for Secret Surgery
au contra ire
by JediLeroy on Nov 10, 2008 4:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that exact same thing!
Even when I’m rarely here, I can’t get away…
Ray: "How fun is it to be up here playing in the Big Leagues?"
Gio: "It's *SUPER* fun!!!"
by Poppy on Nov 10, 2008 5:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
< shock >
"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL
by oblique on Nov 10, 2008 2:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Aw.
But he came back. And there was much rejoicing.
by Jennifer on Nov 10, 2008 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
I’m knocking off the rust.
But he came back. And there was much rejoicing.
by Jennifer on Nov 10, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
< trades Jennifer's rust for 2 rides in a Miata >
"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL
by oblique on Nov 10, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
< trades Jennifer's rust for 2 rides in a Miata >
Trades Jennifer’s rust & 2 rides in a Miata for Crosby
"AN, Reducing Work Productivity since 2003", connie mack 11/06/08
by adragon on Nov 10, 2008 4:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
< trades Crosby in for some rust >
by LoneStranger on Nov 10, 2008 4:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
< trades rust in for two rides in Jennifer >
au contra ire
by JediLeroy on Nov 10, 2008 4:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still somewhat opposed to this.
Although I can see the intelligence, and really do think the A’s can extend him. I’m wary of giving big contracts to corner outfielders anyways.
I’m still in shell shock.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 2:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Crosby will protect him!!!
This is his breakout aka contract year !!!!
/sarcasm.
by buddahead9 on Nov 10, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
just put the shift on
all year – except have a forth outfielder rather than crosby
problem solved!
BB should send scouts to watch cricket players.
by alea iacta est on Nov 10, 2008 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i hate this trade
thank god street is gone, but this trade solves nothing for the a’s
i mean who is going to protect him, if i were playing the a’s, i would walk him every time.
carlos was the best up and coming start on the a’s. i wouldnt of given him up for anything
by jhroac02 on Nov 10, 2008 2:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Right, signing one of the best OF in baseball does NOTHING to help us
NOTHING AT ALL. Look! Over there! (runs away)
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
this is starting to remind me of a game thread...
with the rapid fire comments, etc.
I wish it was about a happier topic though. I REALLY don’t like this trade.
Awww… Unicorn's optimistic. And a cheeseball. That’s cute. ~Whiteshoes40
by #14fan on Nov 10, 2008 2:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Alright, who wants to join my emo band?
Possible names:
Tuesday’s Morning Paper
6th Grade Diary
I Hate You Dad
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Suggestion: Daughter to Father
after the ultimate emo song from the great Lindsay Lohan.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Duly noted
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday Season?
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hard Drive 4Matt
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
my rainy holiday
"I was right and you were wrong." - Ray Fosse
by kbtoyz on Nov 10, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
[slits wrists]
But he came back. And there was much rejoicing.
by Jennifer on Nov 10, 2008 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Now you're on the trolley!
Razors for everyone!
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Razors?
Why not use splintered maple bats? It seem more appropriate in this context.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's the band name
The Razor Trolley
But he came back. And there was much rejoicing.
by Jennifer on Nov 10, 2008 2:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we all should remember that it’s largely irrelevant whether Holliday signs an extension in judging this deal. If the A’s were planning on doing that, they could have waited a year and done so. It’s not as if they have exclusive right to negotiate with him next off-season and there’s no reason to expect an extension to be agreed to this season. In essence the A’s traded two years of Street, five of Smith, and six of Gonzalez for one of Holliday at below market price. That’s a pretty steep price to pay even if you’re down on Gonzalez and Smith. Props to the A’s for reaching this deal without including more long-term pieces than Gonzalez, but that’s a pretty steep price to pay if you belief in him at all.
by 17843 on Nov 10, 2008 2:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Good points, all.
"Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it."
-Thomas Jefferson
by thinwhiteduke on Nov 10, 2008 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
in essence
when you assume that Holliday will be walking after a year (a decent assumption), you must also remember that the A’s get a 1st round and sandwich pick.
Save Rajai Davis
by oakinboston on Nov 10, 2008 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Picks are nice...
… but Street, Smith & Cargon are still worth more than 1 yr of Holliday, plus the picks. Theoretically, there is really no way of knowing in advance what the picks will end up bringing, but on avg I don’t think they equal three legit, established or near establisheed ML players.
"Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it."
-Thomas Jefferson
by thinwhiteduke on Nov 10, 2008 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The point people may be missing
Is that Beane is ready to contend NOW. Not 2010 or 2011, but here and now. Wolff’s opening the wallet and Beane is putting that money to good use.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Nov 10, 2008 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
okay, beane and wolff are ready, but is the actual team ready to contend NOW?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 10, 2008 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Billy's working on it apparently
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Nov 12, 2008 2:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
salary control
Without knowing what future moves may be in store after today’s events, those sure are a lot of years of salary control to give up for just one year of $13500000. That’ and the A’s must really really like Sweewney along with believing in Buck’s staying healthy and his 2007 season.
by Cristobalm on Nov 10, 2008 2:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Salary is not the big issue here.
It’s prospects that are the #1 problem.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 2:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Which, of course, is why we have a really good shot at resigning him.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Street was on the decline, and getting expensive.
Smith is closer to his post-ASB self than the pre-ASB one.
Gonzalez swings at everything.
Holliday is a hitting machine. The A’s will sign Giambi, and trade for something to play on the left side of the infield, and have a watchable offense next year. They won’t trade Holliday in July, he’ll stay. Giambi-Holliday-Cust- is the best 3-4-5 in Oakland since Giambi-Tejada-Chavez.
I give this trade an A.
by BWH on Nov 10, 2008 2:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why on earth is everyone so obsessed with Giambi? Especially now that he would HAVE to play 1B or else Cust/Holliday Block Buck/Cunningham
It’s driving me crazy
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
think it's a prodigal son thing
Save Rajai Davis
by oakinboston on Nov 10, 2008 2:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
defenitley
"I was right and you were wrong." - Ray Fosse
by kbtoyz on Nov 10, 2008 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Because he's hit 30+ HR's in 3 of the last 4 years.
And his BB rate is fairly steady.
by BWH on Nov 10, 2008 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a better hitter than Barton, but he's awful defensively and there's no DH possibility
Oh, and he’s expensive. Oh, and his last two OPS+ are 108 and 128.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but
2007 was a bit of a disaster for him. But if he belts 30+ HR next year, puts up an 850+ OPS out of 1B (which is reasonable) I’ll take the hit defensively. Maybe Barton can stick around as a late game replacement.
I might be irrational in my Giambi desire, to be sure. Probably because I couldn’t stand to watch that offense last season. It was miserable. After watching Hannahan-Barton-Crosby-Patterson-Sweeney-Thomas-Emil last season, I’m itching for a Giambi-Holliday-Cust-Hardy(???… please?!) lineup next year.
by BWH on Nov 10, 2008 2:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know that expecting 30+ HRs a year from a guy this old is all that reasonable.
Giambi is basically Cust-lite (fewer home runs, waaaaaaaaaaay fewer walks) and he’ll drop off a cliff power-wise sooner rather than later.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cust-Lite?
Giambi is Cust-heavy. He is the same player except a better hitter (and fielder lol). As an avid fantasy player, I watched about 100 Giambi PAs last season. He is a very good hitter.
I fully believe that last season Giambi adjusted to his lack of youth/steroids that caused him to flame out in ’07, and I would expect an .850 OPS from him easy. Giambi was the Yankees best hitter last season for quite a long stretch.
www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.
by ChadGod on Nov 10, 2008 3:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Where to begin?
Cust: more HR, way more BB, and a higher OPS+. Also, younger, healthy, and playing DH
Giambi: very old, on the decline, tons of injury problems, worse stats, terrible defense, ugly 2007.
If you draft Giambi before Cust in any kind of rational fantasy league you’re only kidding yourself.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday for Wright flip?
Could this be the end result? Seems to make more sense. Wrights contract is cheap. I just can’t get over the fact that beane would be willing to make Holliday the A’s first $100m+ contract.
by DofCT on Nov 10, 2008 2:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Wright is worth a LOT more than Holliday.
You’re talking Anderson/Cahill gone territory when you’re talking Wright.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why? Holliday is a great OFer.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
David Wright??
Why would the Mets do that?
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Nov 10, 2008 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, Jaret Wright
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 2:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Carlos Gonzalez has confirmed his inclusion in the deal.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 2:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Balls
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
General proclamation of disappointment
Not unlike “sonuvabitch.”
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bollocks!
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Nov 10, 2008 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
These photos are balls.
au contra ire
by JediLeroy on Nov 10, 2008 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a good trade
I have no information to back this up but it just does not feel right. Is Matt Holiday really going to make us that much better. We have no one to protect him. I likely doubt that Boras will want his client to sign a long term deal in Oakland. I give Beane props for trying but this is going to blow up in our face.
"This was no boating accident"
by crd04us on Nov 10, 2008 2:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why?
Boras clients are all about the money. We are in a position to pay him a lot of money without effing up our salary structure.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Salary
Holiday is going to want 85 mil+. That might be a little hard to swallow.
"This was no boating accident"
by crd04us on Nov 10, 2008 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
< gets huge-ass glass of water >
"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL
by oblique on Nov 10, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not when we pay no one else any real money
Except Chavez for a little while longer.
We could sign Holliday 6/120 and not be screwing ourselves if he produces through and out of his prime as expected.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
More like 100MM++, and it wouldn't be that hard to swallow.
Eric Chavez comes off the books after the 2010 season. The only significant players who will be arbitration eligible before 2011 are Braden, Cust, and maybe Casilla/Brown. And, relievers are very easily expendable if necessary.
The net increase in per year salary between Chavez and Holliday wouldn’t be more than 10MM.
And remember, the A’s are currently working at WELL below payroll capacity.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you have to factor in
a guys desire to play for contending teams. The difference standard of living between 150M and 175M can’t be all that great…..can it?
After the A-Rod debacle last season, one would think Boras clients would exercise some judgment. I’m sure Boras cut is a percentage of what he negotiates….and what does he care if his clients are playing for a contender or not?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Nov 10, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Obama Effect?
Given the payroll flexilibity the A’s currently enjoy, and with baseball players facing the prospect of rising taxes, what are the chances the A’s give a big upfront payment in order to keep Holliday long-term? According to what’s been posted on this website, the A’s, including Holliday, are around $40M for this season. How much would a $15M signing bonus, payable before 1/1/09, entice Holliday and Boras? Enough to keep Holliday around at $15 per year instead of $20M per year for 6 additional years?
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Nov 10, 2008 2:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting take on things.
but I would venture a guess that baseball players are not the most tax-minded folks out there.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It is actually very interesting
Boras, at least, would certainly appreciate it.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You have a good point there.
HUGE advantage to Holliday signing now.
Although he might still demand 20MM/yr though.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 2:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know that the advantage is really that huge.
The tax hikes were just a campaign promise.. and I think we all know how that goes. Holliday is going to want the most guaranteed money he can get regardless, and taxes are by no means a certainty. If he thinks he can get more long-term by waiting, he will.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't imagine the tax hikes don't go through on the same bill the tax cuts do.
But then maybe the Republicans in control of the [] branch will block it.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It has little to do with party loyalties
and more to do with individual congressmen. Imagine gaining the reputation as the man or woman who voted to raise taxes during a “recession”.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well considering we just elected a president who very clearly promised to raise taxes during a recession...
It can’t be all that politically toxic.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The 95% thing helped.
According to most polls, most people saw Obama as the biggest tax cutter.
by BWH on Nov 10, 2008 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's the big issue I had with McCain.
He should have countered that by hammering the point that he was proposing a 100% tax cut.
His tax cut wasn’t as large for lower/middle classes as Obama’s was, but still.. he was proposing tax cuts for literally everyone.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh and his average tax cut
was higher than Obama’s as well. The point is, he could have easily had the reputation as the bigger tax cutter if he presented his case a little better.
Obama ran the better campaign, plain and simple.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And getting a $15 million signing bonus
puts you in the other 5%.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 10, 2008 2:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Possibly
but in individual districts it could be.
Besides, I’m not all that convinced that most voters realize what Obama’s actual tax plan is. American voters have a habit of being horridly uninformed.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the numbers were a bit distorted.
Because of Obama’s refundable tax credit to those who pay no income tax. If you just look at the 65% of income earners who DO pay taxes, McCain’s plan was comparable for middle-classers.
by BWH on Nov 10, 2008 2:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There's always a spin politicians place on things.
And so it’s really difficult to cut through the clutter. Taxes are incredibly complicated too, and I’m not convinced that the average voter understands them. I mean, most people I’ve talked to are convinced the president runs the economy.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
depends on how you define "Middle class"
If you look at the mean household earnings in the US, it’s in the low to mid $40,000 range, in which case Obama’s tax cut was about three times the size of McCain’s.
One of the interesting issues in American politics is how people see their own income compared to their actual income percentile. People earning incomes above the 95th percentile define themselves as “middle class,” despite the obvious ridiculousness of such a description.
In any case, CNN broke down the actual value of the tax changes.
by MrIncognito on Nov 10, 2008 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The tax increase is only speculation
the $15-$20M bonus is not – that is cold, hard cash. With how low the current payroll is, and if, as has been speculated, the end target is $80M, that still leaves $20-25M to spend. That’ll get Furcal plus leave a little room for some lower-level players.
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Nov 10, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who the hell campaigns promising a tax hike
when they really don’t want to do it?
Usually works the other way around.
by BWH on Nov 10, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but usually tax hikes aren't prudent during a slow economy.
Obama may consider backing off of that for the time being.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on whose taxes you're hiking
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The wealthy are the most likely to invest
and beef up a declining stock market.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So increase taxes and the 401K limit
Since the Bush cuts are set to expire anyway, I can’t imagine they’ll be extended for the >$250Ks.
Inaction being, as always, easier than action.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Investors aren't going to respond well to letting the Bush tax cuts expire.
But we’ll see what happens.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Almost all "temporary" tax cuts
get extended. That’s exactly why they propose them as “temporary” in the first place. When you propose the first time, you can say “it’s only for two years” and thus not have to budget for the full cost of a permanent cut. But then when it’s due to expire, you say, “but we’re not changing anything, we’re just leaving the taxes how they already are,” and you criticize your opponents by saying they want to “raise” taxes.
It’s inconsistent, of course, but it is a tactic that has proven very effective.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 10, 2008 2:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Right
But if you think Obama was lying about not wanting to extend the cuts just to make it harder to get elected I’m thinking you’re crazy.
Also, the Democrats can just say “BUSHtaxcuts” a lot of times and cover it.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say anything about Obama
I’m talking about how tax legislation works. To talk about whether I think the president-elect was lying as a candidate would be expressing a political opinion, which I don’t do on AN.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 10, 2008 3:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, but I'm arguing that this time is an exception to the general rule you're (correctly) stating
Such a discussion can not be intelligently had without referencing the reasons this time is different.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, I'll buy that.
Such a discussion can not be intelligently had without referencing the reasons this time is different.
… in that case, such a discussion shouldn’t be had here at all.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 10, 2008 3:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 3:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yay Iglew!
I really really appreciate that you stopped the political direction that this was threatening to go in.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 10, 2008 4:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But most importantly...
We still have Brett Anderson, right?
by OakLgb on Nov 10, 2008 2:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yes. We need to be happy about that.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Are we sure we still have B. Anderson. ESPN recently was floating his name in the deal. I would be furious if we gave up Cahill or Anderson in this deal.
My religion is A'slamic.
by WhoNeedsReligionWhenYaGotBaseball on Nov 10, 2008 2:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That would SUCK.
Awww… Unicorn's optimistic. And a cheeseball. That’s cute. ~Whiteshoes40
by #14fan on Nov 10, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Im hoping that was just one of the early guesses
And that now people are pretty sure its just Cargon Smith Street
by OakLgb on Nov 10, 2008 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
CarGon and Smith have been confirmed in the deal.
and Beane isn’t stupid enough to give up both CarGon AND Anderson. Or Anderson period.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone else think this is a straight Marketing ploy?
I really think this is an attempt to bring in more people at the gate by making a splash in the offseason. I also like this trade on the field, but I think Lew is up to something. He needs this team to be more attractive to potential buyers, now that Fremont is looking more unlikely…
"I was right and you were wrong." - Ray Fosse
by kbtoyz on Nov 10, 2008 2:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
No.
People aren’t going to remember this by April.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you mean this isn't really happening?
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Nov 10, 2008 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, it's just a dream.
Go back to sleep.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good morning
"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty
by 5Aces on Nov 10, 2008 3:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"more unlikely"
every fremont election went the way the a’s wanted, that was just like 6 days ago.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 10, 2008 5:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
MMMM
This is what I love about getting Holliday (from the USA Today article linked above)
Oakland was last in the majors leagues with a .242 batting average this season and last in the AL with 646 runs.
The A’s used eight starters in left field and finished 75-86, their worst record since 1998.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Via ESPN
Lew is also bringing forth the theory posted earlier that they wanted more hitting next year to help woth the young staff’s confidence…
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3694100
"I was right and you were wrong." - Ray Fosse
by kbtoyz on Nov 10, 2008 2:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
That's a good theory, and it is true.
A’s pitchers consistently ranked in the bottom for run support.
Going out there and knowing that you pretty much have to pitch a shutout for your team to win isn’t a way to build confidence.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You'd never expect the A's to land the best hitter on the FA market
…and Holliday is the best hitter on next year’s FA market.
They have exclusive negotiating rights to him for the next 12 months. They also have enough money to tear up his current one year, 13.5 million deal and offer him seven years, 120 million, through his age 35 season. And, they have a terrific young core of good players who are good guys – so, Holliday could probably envision the team being both good and fun to be on for the next seven years. Plus, the team would get to open up Cisco Field with him as the featured, big-money player. He’s a good-looking, marketable guy.
I think that Holliday will age better than many of his peers because he is an INCREDIBLE athlete. This guy isn’t just a “baseball player”, like Mike Piazza – he’s a former stud high school football player who was given record 7th round money to pick baseball instead.
I could easily envision a scenario where his superior athleticism allows him to be better than league average through his age 35 year. And if you’re gonna make a seven year commitment, make it on a hitter, of course.
The immediate extension vs. “wait and see” is really a win-win: a.) either you lock up the best hitter on next year’s FA market with no other bidders, OR b.) you wait and find out how well he adapts to Oakland, the AL, and the Coliseum, with very limited financial risk (1 year, 13.5 million).
I also want to point out again that he is an OUTSTANDING baserunner (26 steals in 28 attempts, I believe) and defender. How many terrific hitters can claim to be good at those other two things, too?
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Nov 10, 2008 2:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Okay, we have the money..
but is Holliday really the best way to spend it over the next 6-7 years? I’m thinking about the opportunity costs we may be foregoing.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who is better?
Remember to be a WS contender you need elite performance from somewhere since there are only 9 spots in the lineup
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Right now? Nobody.
In a few years? Who knows. I just don’t see Holliday maintaining his elite status into his 30’s.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not at 39 maybe.
But no one is talking about a 10 year deal. More like 6-7.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he will maintain a solid level of performance.
1. He just doesn’t get hurt. Healthy his entire career.
2. He’s not a one trick pony. Yes, he’s a corner OF. He hits well, steals bases, and plays good defense.
3. He’ll be 35 at the end of his deal. Not 39-40.
4. He probably won’t be elite towards the end of his deal, but he’ll be market value (since inflation will drive market value up).
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh crap
1. You’d better knock on wood. HARD. And then do it again. And again.
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes.
Mostly, Knock on wood a lot and I agree completely.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I meant he's been healthy so far in his career.
but yeah, I’m knocking on wood.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying it's a bad deal
but will it be the best deal? I’m just wondering if the A’s are going to be maximizing their bang for the buck.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I agree with that sentiment.
Corner outfielder, that’s all I gotta say.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Memo to Billy:
NO OPT-OUT CLAUSES!!! Learn from JP & Burnett, Cashman/Hicks & ARod, and DePodesto & Drew
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Nov 10, 2008 2:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I know he wasn't very good last year
I know he was getting too expensive.
But.
Utter Hotness! [sniff]
by Englishmajor on Nov 10, 2008 2:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Actually, he was very good last year. He played in 139 games and hit 25 jacks with a batting average of .321 and 28 stolen bases. That wasn’t even a full year of production. He’s fucking amazing.
My religion is A'slamic.
by WhoNeedsReligionWhenYaGotBaseball on Nov 10, 2008 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
she's talking about Huston
"Don't be an ass!" --Bill King
by batgirl on Nov 10, 2008 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, my apologies Englishmajor :)
My religion is A'slamic.
by WhoNeedsReligionWhenYaGotBaseball on Nov 10, 2008 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So was whoneedsreligion
At least, I think Huston gave up 25 jacks last year, right?
it is not possible to strategize while the ball is coming towards you
by eastcoasta'sfan on Nov 10, 2008 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol. It took me a while to get what you were saying (might be all the beer). Nice one eastcoastfan.
My religion is A'slamic.
by WhoNeedsReligionWhenYaGotBaseball on Nov 10, 2008 5:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well now that I've had time to take a drive and think this trade over
I kind of like it.
There has been plenty of talk lately about the A’s having the funds to increase payroll by a buttload-that’s an official term. That the A’s would give up Carlos Gonzalez, to me, is a sign that they’re probably going to resign him.
Other things it does is give them a a big right handed power bat to plunk down in the middle of this left-handed cesspool, which will help because we were pretty susceptible to lefties last year.
Whether or not everyone agrees with the idea of “protection,” pitchers will be a lot less likely to throw a bunch of junk to Cust in fear of facing Holiday or vice versa, and Cust might be able to connect on a few more fastballs next year.
It also negates the need to sign an aging slugger in Giambi. In my opinion, it puts Holliday out there in left every day and puts Cust at DH. It also means that Gonzalez is not our CF of the future. I also don’t think that Ryan Sweeney is the man for that job, and when you look at the minors, we don’t really have much.
What we do have down there on the farm, though, is a guy named Jemile Weeks, who several scours pegged as making the switch to CF when he gets to the majors. He may not have the defense to be an everyday 2B, but he probably has great speed and could very well make the switch.
Switching Weeks to CF would allow for Cardenas to quit fooling around and move back to 2B. He won’t stick at third, he doesn’t have the power for that position. Still leaves a whole at SS and 3rd, but definitely helps the offense out.
I would definitely not be surprised to see Holliday sign a brand spankin new contract, and to see Weeks work at CF next year. Any thoughts?
by NateHST on Nov 10, 2008 2:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Weeks won't be ready in 2009. 2010 at the earliesst.
Although CF in the minors might be a good idea.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't think we will see Weeks in CF for awhile
But I like your thoughts on Holliday. I think Cunningham and Sweeney will end up being the CF platoon, which isn’t all that bad.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on Nov 10, 2008 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The A's and Holliday have replaced the Peavy trade rumors totally today. I love it.
For one day it is ALL A’s
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Nov 10, 2008 2:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
because getting lots of news coverage on some random day in the offseason is the most important thing
kinda like the giants when they signed barry zito.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 10, 2008 5:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
am i the only one who is nervous about this? lol
not upset.. just nervous?
by vooya40 on Nov 10, 2008 2:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Judging by the 1000 plus comments....
I don’t think so.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Nov 10, 2008 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know what all the non-optimism is about
We didn’t give up that much for one of the best outfielders in baseball. Holliday is an incredible bat. Yes, it’s a rental as it stands right now, but I would have a hard time criticizing the deal anyway. We kept our awesome young arms, and the only legit prospect we gave up has plate discipline issues. CarGon also doesn’t project as a big league center fielder, so as he gets older, he will be a corner OF and much less valuable. Smith and Street are solid but unspectacular young roster filler. The bottom line is that we didn’t give up that much.
I also don’t believe that we would acquire a one-year rental given the state of health of the current team. Beane must have something else in the works or a brand new contract for Holliday.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on Nov 10, 2008 2:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Or, as I expect, both
I really think we’ll see a Holliday extension before pitchers and catchers and that we sign Furcal.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you may be right
The first part of the year has a lot of question marks though with the health of Chavez and Ellis and who is going to be in the rotation. I would love to see us just go for it and stick Cahill and Anderson in there.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on Nov 10, 2008 2:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't want to be like the WSH Nationals...
1 player won’t make a team a contender… even with our great pitching staff.
Please go all out and get Furcal + 3B, or decide to flip him now or trading deadline and load up on another stash of prospects. Rasmus would replace CarGone (he really is now) pretty well.
The Stockton Ports pitching staff is better than the Orioles.
by gdub171 on Nov 10, 2008 4:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Nov 10, 2008 5:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
stick michael inoa in there
calling up cargon before he was ready worked out so well.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Nov 10, 2008 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it bad that apon seeing this news on AN, I left my school’s library (finished my HW), called all my A’s friends in California, and went to the liquor store and bought a 12 pack of good beer. And here I am, glued to this thread drinking my brews all day in celebration mode??
My religion is A'slamic.
by WhoNeedsReligionWhenYaGotBaseball on Nov 10, 2008 2:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I am getting jacked-up-hammered today because of this news. Sometimes good grades and being a diehard A’s fan simply do not go hand in hand.
My religion is A'slamic.
by WhoNeedsReligionWhenYaGotBaseball on Nov 10, 2008 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish graduate schools agreed with you
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on Nov 10, 2008 2:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
GPA is overrated.
I hate those people who get 4.0’s and act like they’re geniuses. To get a 4.0 in college you have to have done at least one of three things:
1. Picked an easy major like education or liberal arts
2. Paid your instructor
3. Have incredible luck
You take some 40 classes in college. At some point you land an instructor who just won’t seem to give you an A.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have had some complete asshole instructors before.
It can get ugly.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 2:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Econ.
4.0
Worked my ass off.
And yes, I’m an arrogant asshole in person as well.
by BWH on Nov 10, 2008 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
where I went to school
econ was the official major of the football team
it is not possible to strategize while the ball is coming towards you
by eastcoasta'sfan on Nov 10, 2008 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My school didn't have a football team.
Because it is fairly mediocre.
by BWH on Nov 10, 2008 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
It only really matters in high school…so it’s just a couple years of working my ass off, then 2.0 through college, baby!
Procrastinators unite....tomorrow
by muffinpryde on Nov 10, 2008 3:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot
4. Not worked a full-time job
5. Not had a spouse and kid(s)
6. Either taken loans or had your parents pay for everything so that you could fulfill #4
au contra ire
by JediLeroy on Nov 10, 2008 4:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Nov 10, 2008 2:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is an awesome moment to be an A's fan
This guy is an absolute star and it’s gonna be a fun year watching him regardless of how we do. Though I do like winning the best.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
by baseb3383 on Nov 10, 2008 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm confused
At what age does one both do homework and buy beer?
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 10, 2008 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on how long you're able to extend your college career.
For me it was 21-24.
If I don't comment on your comment how will you know you are completely wrong? -Rocktopus
by pam5981 on Nov 10, 2008 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought you only call it "homework" in high school.
Since when do college students say they have “homework”? Makes you sound like a kid.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 10, 2008 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's still "homework" in college
But maybe that was the reason I forfeited that 20% of my grade, “homework” just sounded to kiddy to be bothered with. While getting inebriated sounded like the mature/sophisticated thing to do.
by methodrampage on Nov 10, 2008 3:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Homework/schoolwork/assignments/ Does it really matter? All three terms mean the same thing, i.e. go get it done. However, no schoolwork will ever get in the way of me celebrating my Athletics.
My religion is A'slamic.
by WhoNeedsReligionWhenYaGotBaseball on Nov 10, 2008 5:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Holliday Haikus!
Beane Fleeces the Rox
Holliday’s a big-time star
Bring home a title!
A’s Get Holliday
Haven’t worked a minute since
FIRE BILLY BEANE NOW!!!!
Extension to come?
Moneyball versus Boras
An Epic Showdown!
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on Nov 10, 2008 2:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Look at MLBTR comments. All of the Angels’ fanboys are convinced that the A’s are still light years behind the Angels.
Man, I can’t wait for them to realize their degree of douchebaggery.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
MLBTR can look like a cesspool of stupid sometimes.
Except when the comments are funny. I remember when the Kotsay for Devine trade went down, a Braves fan was saying that if Devine turned out to be anything good, he’d cut his balls off.
This.
by Blicks on Nov 10, 2008 2:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well.
I guess he has a really, really squeaky voice right now.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cesspool of Stupid
should also apply to the comments made on articles posted on the MLB site…gah, so frustrating.
Procrastinators unite....tomorrow
by muffinpryde on Nov 10, 2008 2:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN Insider.
Pretty much everyone except here. Man, I love you guys.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, seriously
I’d probably be insane if it wasn’t for you guys here at AN.
Procrastinators unite....tomorrow
by muffinpryde on Nov 11, 2008 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and my sincere congratulations for not making 50 FanPosts guys
Responsible blogging? Yes we can!
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 2:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
*makes Fanpost*
HAY GUYZ DID U NO WE GOT MATT HOLIDAY
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
GREG NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Barack Obama! :D
by LiZaRdReVoLuTiOn on Nov 10, 2008 2:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry.
He wasn’t that good.
by VORP is too nerdy on Nov 10, 2008 2:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
Barack Obama! :D
by LiZaRdReVoLuTiOn on Nov 10, 2008 2:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is news to me.
Barack Obama! :D
by LiZaRdReVoLuTiOn on Nov 10, 2008 2:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Shouldn't be
He hasn’t ever been especially good (as an example, Eveland beat him out for the #5 in spring training)
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Nov 10, 2008 3:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was being sarcastic. :D But he was among my favorites.
Barack Obama! :D
by LiZaRdReVoLuTiOn on Nov 10, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is anyone really gonna miss Smith's 80 BB's in 190 innings?
C’mon.
by BWH on Nov 10, 2008 2:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
Barack Obama! :D
by LiZaRdReVoLuTiOn on Nov 10, 2008 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Greg Smith a lot
Not that I think he’s the best pitcher on our team … I just liked him.
That said, this deal seems reasonable to me. The pieces we traded were ones we could spare. Yes, of course they had value, but none was outrageous, and you don’t get even one year of a stud hitter by trading only crap.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Nov 10, 2008 3:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
180 posts and no "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!11!!ELEVENTY!" ?
I’ll take that as a popular AN endorsement of this transaction.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Nov 10, 2008 3:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
There are two things I will miss
and
But now we get
"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty
by 5Aces on Nov 10, 2008 3:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Has there been deals like this that have fallen through
Meaning have there been trades that were pending phsyicals and/or contract talks that fell through? i can’t remember any but that is not saying much.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Nov 10, 2008 3:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
holliday is FA next year...
which means we have him for a contract year, right?
so, yknow. he might put up extra decent numbers.
just a thought
BB should send scouts to watch cricket players.
by alea iacta est on Nov 10, 2008 3:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
True - I didn't think of that
I don’t think it will be enough to contend unless a few starters blossom next year or BB has more tricks up his sleeve. I think the team will be more exciting to watch though.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Nov 10, 2008 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
it's not a justification of the deal, by any means
just something that occurred to me
BB should send scouts to watch cricket players.
by alea iacta est on Nov 10, 2008 3:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts
We all need to remember that BB is not dumb, ignorant, or any of the above. He has gotten to where he is because he is who he is (fun sentence). I’m sure he has gone over every aspect of this trade and left no stone unturned. He knows who Holliday’s agent is and what that means, he knows how much money he can and cannot spend, he knows that this trade is not worth it for 1 year of Holliday, and he knows what’s best for this team. All that BS about getting good hitters to help the pitchers develop is just stupid shit made up by the crappy ESPN analysts. Beane is nowhere near that level of stupidity. I feel safe.
After looking at it that way I want to step back and look at it as a fan. If this is Hollidays only season in Oakland then I am going to enjoy it as much as I can. We haven’t had a young, elite hitter since Tejada and Giambi left and Chavvy died. This is exciting stuff, especially if we add another hitter like Furcal and/or Giambi or whatever. We really didn’t give up all that much to get a hitter of this magnitude so I’m happy about that as well.
Billy knows what he’s doing, so we need to stop freaking out and just let everything play out.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Nov 10, 2008 3:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Billy must've read PT's diary
au contra ire
by JediLeroy on Nov 10, 2008 4:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
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