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Billy Beane Knows Healthcare

I'm not sure how many of you have seen this, but Billy Beane has a column in the New York Times on how to fix the American health care system.  And he co-authored it with Newt Gingrich.  And John Kerry.  Huh.

It's an interesting concept to think of our health care system being run based on stats-based evidence and research.  I wonder if it means we're going to have a new measure for doctors, something like accurate diagnosis created (number of times poked with a needle + incorrect lab tests ordered + number of minutes spent in waiting room + number of trips to the physician required/number of days of pain free relief).  And VORIP (value over replacement insurance provider) which could be something like Number of times request to see a specialist rejected+number of times forced to use a generic medicine+number of times refusal to pay for unauthorized emergency hospital stay/number of times insurance company doesn't hassle you about something they should cover.  I imagine the league average for both these things would be pretty low.

Regardless, I thought it was an interesting alignment of people on the op-ed and Beane is correct in emphasizing common sense and stats analysis used in health care.  I suppose I can understand Beane being frustrated with the current system.  If anyone has experience in baseball using health care over the last two years, it's the A's.

 

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Interesting piece

Many physicians (especially in private practice) are Republicans who generally don’t enjoy new government regulations. Of course, Beane co-authored the article with two politicians who, shall we say, have raised some eyebrows. In fact, if Kerry wasn’t such a boob Bushy could have been out of here 4 years ago.

Does anyone else feel like Beane’s going to try and do something bigger and better than the GM of your Oakland A’s Athletics? He sounds bored…

Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay...in his prime...like 3 years ago.

by carp on Oct 24, 2008 9:02 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bigger and better?

He’s got the best job in the world. ;)

I wouldn’t read too much into that. Especially right now. Doesn’t strike me as a guy who would step out in the middle of a plan.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 24, 2008 9:16 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe not right this moment

I was thinking more along the lines of windyfelix’s comment

Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay...in his prime...like 3 years ago.

by carp on Oct 24, 2008 9:50 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This seems like a good place to post a photo

which I took at one of the last three games of the season — two young guys in the left field bleachers had made a couple of amusing posters, although their graphic skills were horrible.

by Englishmajor on Oct 24, 2008 9:10 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Like how young?

Six, seven?

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 24, 2008 9:13 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

FIRE BEANE NOW!!!!!!!!111

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 24, 2008 9:26 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll say the obvious

WHAT ABOUT THE HEALTH CARE OF THE OAKLAND ATHLETICS??

OK— got that off my chest. Interesting piece for many reasons. The philosophy makes sense. Wonder if Gingrich was the spur for this— and how exactly he enlisted Kerry. But mostly I wonder what this tells us about the future of one William Lamar Beane— if he’s sticking his toes in as big a pond as our health care system, I would think his days as a GM of a baseball team are numbered— Moneyball or no Moneyball.

by windyfelix on Oct 24, 2008 9:11 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why?

Does one have to be single minded to be a baseball GM? Why can’t he be involved in other projects besides his job? I manage to do it without giving up my job.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Oct 24, 2008 10:01 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

certainly not

his are usually just so public.

there are a lot of other hobbies he could be doing.

clearly, he seeks to make himself seem awesome in non-baseball circuits.

Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay...in his prime...like 3 years ago.

by carp on Oct 24, 2008 10:11 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also, his job is one of the more intense out there

There probably aren’t enough hours in the day to both be your best as a MLB GM and lead an effort to re-invent American health care.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 24, 2008 10:30 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is that what he's doing?

If he were leading the effort, I’d agree. I think there’s a big difference between leading the effort and making a contribution. I think Beane’s role is the latter.

Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!

by Monday Fan on Oct 25, 2008 10:04 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He isn't now because he has a job

If he wanted to (or even to come anywhere close) he’d run out of hours real fast.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 25, 2008 10:27 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my guess (and it's sheer speculation, but based on the past actions of all three)

Gingrich is probably heavily invested in a couple of healthcare informatics startups; he probably has had Beane deliver speeches before the VC funding the startups; and he pitched Kerry on the bipartisan/public-private technocratic solutions aspect of it (and he likely gave Beane, but probably not Kerry, a “taste” of the action in the fund).

Oh, if people only knew how frugal we are. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2008 10:07 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think it's quite as complicated as that

1. Better data collection/evaluation, process streamlining via technology infrastructure enhancements … in its broadest outlines, this is the most (only?) politically uncontroversial aspect of health care reform. Note that the words “insurance” and “coverage” are nowhere to be found in the piece.

2. To wit: Bill Frist and Hillary Clinton co-authored a similar op-ed several years ago.

3. The hackneyed baseball analogies were almost too much to take.

4. These sorts of pseudo “joining of hands from across the aisle to solve America’s problems, gosh darnit” gestures are not really new for Kerry and Gingrich.

5. Sometimes I think your signature lines are specifically designed to give me an ulcer.

by 74mk on Oct 24, 2008 10:40 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

1. It depends. Electronic record-keeping is controversial because it is SO expensive to implement. As in billions of dollars.

2-4. Fair enough

5. 11/4/08. (knocks on wood)

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 24, 2008 10:54 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Too cynical

Health care reform has been Gingrich’s pet issue for a decade now. Whether you agree with him or not, this is surely a genuine public policy proposal, not just promoting personal financial interests.

As 74mk has pointed out, it’s not uncommon for a Republican and a Democrat to join on a proposal. The news media, by narrowly focusing only on issues where the parties do line up on opposite sides, trains us to believe that the two parties can’t possibly agree on anything. The blogosphere, with its habit of using political ideology as a cultural identity, trains us to believe that all Democrats must shun all Republicans as if they have cooties, and vice versa.

In reality, most of the world’s problems are things the parties can agree on, and Democrats and Republicans really do work together for a common interest.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Oct 24, 2008 3:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or, viewed another way

The Republican and Democrat parties agree on the 99% of policies which are meant to perpetuate the corporatist system which richly rewards them both. Those few issues on which there is actual disagreement are almost always ancilliary to the larger goal, and are played up by the media as a way of maintaining the myth that Americans have something other than a one party system.

I'm a street walkin cheetah with a heart full of napalm.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 24, 2008 4:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So much for my effort to combat cynicism....

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Oct 25, 2008 11:03 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

potayto – potahto

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 25, 2008 11:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That Manny Ortiz just couldn't get the Sox over the top...
the Tampa Bay Rays, a franchise that uses a data-driven approach and has the second-lowest payroll in baseball at $44 million, are in the World Series (a sad reality for one of us)

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 24, 2008 9:23 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey Blez ...

if you wouldn’t mind, could you pass on this link: chccnet.org and if he wants it, my contact info as well. My organization is working on these issues and if he’s serious about doing something about the situation, we’d love to get them on board.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Oct 24, 2008 10:17 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why stop there?

Let’s elect him king of the universe.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 24, 2008 10:36 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd hold off on that until he delivers at least one WS winner

"However, at Elias, I think they keep track of the amount of sunflower seeds spit in a dugout each night." - Brad Ziegler, 8/7/08

by doctorK on Oct 24, 2008 10:43 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

heh

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 25, 2008 1:49 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So will we end up eliminating Dr Appts?

When you call in, they will just tell you that you are day-to-day and wait another 8-10 before finally letting you see a Dr.

"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty

by 5Aces on Oct 24, 2008 12:01 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great concept, but I don't think it will work in the US

BB doesn’t get sued when cost efficient Jack Cust strikes out to end an inning with Ellis at third. But if the more expensive Doctor Manny treatment may have worked, the heirs of the Ellis estate will likely sue BB for malpractice.

by Miata71 on Oct 24, 2008 2:26 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What do you mean?

Why wouldn’t basing health care decisions on scientific, statistical research, rather than the doctor’s gut, as happens far too often presently, work in the United States?

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Oct 24, 2008 2:30 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it has to be accepted, first

and that might be the biggest hurdle.

Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay...in his prime...like 3 years ago.

by carp on Oct 24, 2008 3:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Little by little it is ...

and where it does, dramatic improvement has proven to be the inevitable result.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Oct 24, 2008 4:01 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lawsuits are not based on scientific, statistical research

“My poor Markie died on 3rd because the those evil corporate beancounters refused to pay the extra 20 million a year to get the best drug, Mannyseptic, and made due with that cheap generic Custia”.

Even though scientific research may have shown that Custia is just as good as Mannyseptic.

I’m all with you – I’d love to see this happen. But there’d have to be some sort of lawsuit protection – if a Doctor follows this approved scientific research, he is (at least largely) shielded from malpractice lawsuits.

by Miata71 on Oct 24, 2008 5:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You are wrong

In order to win a malpractice suit, you have to demonstrate malpractice. The best defense is to follow established practice guidelines. That protection you advocate already exists. The lawsuit you described has about zero chance of winning. All generics are rated as either equivalent or non-equivalent to the brand name by the FDA. A pharmacist or physician is legally protected when making a therapeutic substitution.

The problem is that it is too difficult to follow evidence and guidelines with our current system. Physicians are only allowed to spend a very short time with their patients. They are then constrained in their drug choice by insurance formularies, and are forced to get prior authorization for many drugs but are not paid for the time they spend doing so. You end up with a system where a physician is continually required to make complex decisions in an unreasonably short time frame and is punished for taking extra time to help a patient.

by MrIncognito on Oct 24, 2008 9:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Correct...

unless something is so obvious that any idiot on the street knows it’s malpractice (like leaving a scalpel in someone’s abdomen), following established medical custom is an absolute defense against malpractice suits. [Of course, leaving a scalpel in someone’s abdomen is also a violation of medical custom. The difference is you don’t need to pay a doctor to come in and testify about it.]

If anything, the problem is the opposite— doctors are afraid to innovate because they open themselves up to huge financial risks doing so.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 24, 2008 10:24 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah...the 2002 draft worked out great, didn't it?

ok…that was a cheap shot. I don’t want everyone going all “the draft is a crapshoot” and “I <3 Excel” on me.

Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay...in his prime...like 3 years ago.

by carp on Oct 24, 2008 3:21 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, it wasn't bad...

Swisher, Blanton and Teahen….two solid regulars who contributed and netted the A’s some more good young talent. Teahen also has had a somewhat ok career, considering he was a MLB regular for at least a couple seasons so far and also helped the A’s with Dotel….ok maybe he hurt the A’s.

Gas to Chicago- $23.87 A's/White Sox Tix- $28 Watching the A's whipping the Sox in July 05'- Priceless

by WiscoFan on Oct 24, 2008 4:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

did you like my "I joke?

I thought that was crafty…no? -1 for fishing?

Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay...in his prime...like 3 years ago.

by carp on Oct 24, 2008 5:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This was ironic

I spent the morning in the hospital listening to two doctors come to two different conclusions about my case and when they were out of the room i read the BB/odd couple op-ed piece and surfed the AN commentary. I was – and am – ready for paul depodesta to step in and resolve this situation with some astute metrics.

"...in baseball you wear a cap." -- george carlin

by Hot Cup Joe on Oct 24, 2008 9:12 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Differential is different from treatment

Diagnosing a problem is a lot less clear cut than treatment. Evidence based practice normally implies using the best treatment for a given problem, because that’s where there really is a lot of evidence available. It’s unfortunately not possible to plug your symptoms into a computer and get an accurate diagnosis at this point.

by MrIncognito on Oct 24, 2008 9:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry, DePo's unavailable.

Mr. Davis will be in to see you shortly.

Oh, if people only knew how frugal we are. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 25, 2008 3:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

did someone say ass-toot metrics?

Oh, if people only knew how frugal we are. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 25, 2008 3:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

one maybe...

not both.

"...in baseball you wear a cap." -- george carlin

by Hot Cup Joe on Oct 25, 2008 4:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This system already exists in the US

The VA system already has practices similar to those described in the article in place. I worked for the VA for a while. It has it’s problems, but it is the best health care system in this country. It costs less, gets better outcomes, and is more likely to use evidence based approaches to care than private doctors.The big problem is that patients don’t want to follow evidence based practice. People really want the new wonder drug, or this drug their private doctor is really enthusiastic about weather or not there is evidence of efficacy. To use a baseball analogy, there are a lot of people who are in the bottom of the 9th of a tie game with one out and really want to bunt the runner to second. It doesn’t matter to them that there is good evidence that they are decreasing their chances or scoring. Following evidence based practice frequently means a patient doesn’t get their way, and that’s a hard thing to sell to people. I recommend The Best Care Anywhere or this article.

I’ll also point out that there are a few problems with Beane’s NYT article. The authors seem to be really fond of the Cochrane Review. It’s a fine resource, but meta analysis has many of its own pitfalls. They essentially attempt to statistically combine many studies into one data base and reanalyze results based on larger samples. The problem is that, unlike baseball where everyone is playing by the same rules, studies are done significantly differently. They use different populations, different exclusion criteria, different protocols, etc. Conclusions based on meta-analyses have historically been later proven false at alarmingly high rates (I’ve seen error rates up to 33%).

They also miss the boat in their call for standardized guidelines. These likewise already exist. If you are diagnosed with any reasonably common medical condition, you will probably find treatment guidelines at either www.guidelines.gov or the web site of the relevant major professional organization (American Diabetes Association for diabetes, for example).

One of the things I find most frustrating in the ongoing health care debate is the continual problem of smart people completely misunderstanding the state of health care in this country. It’s not that we don’t know what the common problems in patient care are, it’s just that there really is no system at all. Consider this: when you go into a hospital, the doctors have no way of knowing what conditions you’re being treated for or what medications you’re taking. When you pick up a prescription, your pharmacist has no clue what conditions you have or what your being treated for. How is a professional supposed to make good, evidence based decisions in a system when we are given no information on the patients we’re treating? How can you expect patients to get the best possible care when the entire reason d’etre of the system is to make a profit by giving as little care as possible? As with baseball, the results we get are a product of the process we have in place. Europe gets better health care outcomes at a lower cost because their entire approach to healthcare is different. If we want better results, we need a fundamental change in our process.

by MrIncognito on Oct 24, 2008 9:48 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   1 recs

If only the VA could get... you know... good doctors

To go with what sounds like a good approach. And by “good doctors” I don’t mean fancy, I mean “never been sanctioned by a medical board”

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 24, 2008 10:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

define "good"

The VA has problems. The only way you can get fired is to run screaming down the hallway and stab a coworker. Incompetence and negligence is frequently overlooked, etc. It’s frustrating for the people who care.

On the other hand, we need to define good. My definition of a good doctor is one who understands and adheres to treatments that have been shown to give the best possible outcomes. Using that definition, the VA docs are demonstrably outperforming even the fanciest and most respected private hospitals in the country. Your chances of ending up on the best evidence-based treatments are higher at a VA facility than Johns Hopkins, Harvard Med Center, or the Mayo Clinic. Not bad for a bunch of docs who have been sanctioned by the boards.

by MrIncognito on Oct 24, 2008 10:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Let me get this straight

You define good to include people who incompetently attempt to follow good treatment plans?

I would say any definition of good is even stricter than lack of “incompetence and negligence.” As for the “people who care” part, I do.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 24, 2008 11:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No
You define good to include people who incompetently attempt to follow good tre

atment plans?

No, I define good to mean people who follow treament guidelines. The VA docs do a better job of following guidelines than private docs. Therefore, for all the crap dishes out, the VA docs appear to be actually better than private docs. The VA is the Jack Cust of medical care. People take a lot of shots at it, but when you look at the actual data, they provide better care.

I would say any definition of good is even stricter than lack of "incompetence and negligence." As for the "people who care" part, I do.

Being a competent doctor is tremendously difficult. All MDs have at least 5 years of intense training in a professional program, and most have more, yet they still struggle.

Most people care in the general sense, but it’s different to continue to care while grinding out your 9-5.

by MrIncognito on Oct 25, 2008 1:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I love you
The VA is the Jack Cust of medical care

Oh, if people only knew how frugal we are. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 25, 2008 3:26 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's a great line

But as someone who spent two months of my life defending a claim against a VA doctor who had been sanctioned several times, the sanctions aren’t irrelevant.

assuming that you’re right about the data, that just means that treatment guidelines are so good that bad doctors can follow them (or that other VA facilities have a much smaller percentage of professionally sanctioned doctors).

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 25, 2008 3:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There are bad docs everywhere

Like I said, being a competent MD is hugely difficult. The VA has bad docs, just like everywhere else. They just tend to do it right more often.

by MrIncognito on Oct 25, 2008 9:09 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The government runs the Post Office...

so why shouldn’t they run health care, right?

by mattman on Oct 24, 2008 10:46 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmph

In this thread alone, we’ve got FSU decrying the malevolent corporatist state, monkeyball conjuring various hidden interest conspiracies in tandem with an explicitly political signature line … I’m not sure why my comment, in particular, would be the can of worms here.

I only hoped – by painting with a similarly dismissive broad brush from the opposite perspective – to demonstrate to mattman that it may be useful to subject this particular ipso facto conclusion to more rigorous examination.

It’s possible I’m a terrorist, though. At the very least, I tend to coddle them.

Hey, what does your signature mean? Google just cackled at my ignorance when I typed it in.

by 74mk on Oct 25, 2008 7:21 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ca ira!

To the barricades!

"...in baseball you wear a cap." -- george carlin

by Hot Cup Joe on Oct 25, 2008 10:25 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oops

1. Didn’t mean to single you out here. If anything, Blez (or even mattman) opened the can o’ worms. As someone whose own family is in a somewhat bitter debate about the (perceived) evils of capitalism, I foresaw a decline in cordiality. Perhaps I was a bit too cynical.

2. You probably are a terrorist.

3. Just kidding about 2.

4. Linky

au contra ire

by JediLeroy on Oct 26, 2008 1:19 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I thought the government runs...

most, if not all, of those?

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Oct 25, 2008 12:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

1. No.
2. Even if yes, and I changed “runs” to “ran until recently”, would it alter my point even a tiny bit?
3. No (answer to 2).
4. In light of 1, 2, and 3, your comment confuses me.
5. Unless you are just making a joke, in which case ignore 1-4.

by 74mk on Oct 25, 2008 1:10 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol

Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb

by FoolshGame22 on Oct 25, 2008 1:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm no fan of the gov't running health care

The important part is that the party making financial decisions about your health be liable for the long term cost of care.

The average person only stays with an insurer for about 4.5 years. The financial incentive to spend a small amount of money to delay really expensive and painful treatment 10 years down the line is not there. With the VA system, because they eventually are going to be responsible for treating their patients one way or another, they heavily emphasize preventative and good early care. Your HMO doesn’t care because they aren’t on on the hook financially.

It’s not an issue of gov’t vs. private, it’s a problem with process that separates decision makers for the long term consequences of their decisions. You could draw a parallel with executives of banks making huge bonuses based on number of loans made, even if the debit turns to garbage in two years, they don’t care as long as they get their $500 million dollar bonus (that’s what current Treasury Sec. Paulson took away from his CEO job).

by MrIncognito on Oct 25, 2008 1:36 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1,000,000

Oh, if people only knew how frugal we are. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 25, 2008 3:25 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good points

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 25, 2008 11:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

While a wide range of established standards do exist ...

1.) There are still far too many ares in which they don’t
and
2.) Doctors are generally under no obligation to follow them, there is no public, physician based data available on which doctors follow those standards and what data is publicly available is generally too old to be as useful as it should be.

Consider, for Coronary Artery Bypass Grafts (Heart Bypass Surgery) all of the evidence points to the use of the Internal Mammary Artery is not only associated with better outcomes, it is more cost efficient as well. Despite that, hospitals in California used the IMA in as few as 60% of CABGs in 2005 — 2005 being the most recent data that is publicly available.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Oct 26, 2008 7:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

1.) There are still far too many ares in which they don’t

It’s a matter of time. For conditions that are common and have strong evidence for efficacy of certain treatments, the information is out there.

2.) Doctors are generally under no obligation to follow them, there is no public, physician based data available on which doctors follow those standards and what data is publicly available is generally too old to be as useful as it should be.

We’re moving in that direction. The Joint Commission, which is the group that issues hospital accreditation, is implementing reporting requirements in a stepwise manner so that you can look at basic quality measures for hospitals. While still in roll out, many results are available online now through CMS. The AMA will never allow government to track private physicians.

Consider, for Coronary Artery Bypass Grafts

Given the relative prevalence and morbidity/mortality benefits to proven low cost treatment options, the benefit to getting patients with diabetes, hypertension, and asthma on the proper therapy would have benefits several orders of magnitude greater than 100% best practices in CABG. Still, your point about private doctors doing whatever they feel like is well taken.

by MrIncognito on Oct 27, 2008 12:17 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

1.) Well, hopefully … but how many people will needlessly die and how many millions of dollars will be wasted in the mean time? It’s not just a matter of providing the best possible care. At least 30% of the money we spend on health care is wasted — most of it on either inappropriate care or dealing with the results of low quality care. With those savings we could provide high quality health insure to ever single uninsured and under insured American.

2.) The AMA doesn’t have to allow it. The data is provided for virtually every single patient to the payor, be it Medicare/Medicaid, an insurance company, a self funded health purchaser or an individual. We’re working with several of the insurers in California to put together a common data warehouse to bring the relevant data together, while keeping private information private.

Saying that the AMA will not allow us to verify whether or not they are killing people at too high a rate is hardly an excuse. It is not going to be easy but it needs to happen.

3.) It was just meant to be a single, simple example in a case where there is virtually universal agreement on the best practice — but still far too many doctors prefer to do it another (more profitable) way. The greatest problem with ACS conditions like the ones you listed isn’t that best practices aren’t followed (though that is an issue) it’s that important preventive care is not undertaken, generally because the patient is uninsured or under insured. There is basically no reason for there to ever be a single hospital admission for any of those conditions, if given proper preventive care. Despite that, there were over 42,000 admissions for Asthma in California in 2005, costing a total of about a half a billion dollars.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Oct 27, 2008 2:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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