Mark Ellis Re-Signs with the Oakland A's
by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 20, 2008 8:23 AM PDT
161 comments
Well folks, your gold glove caliber (robbed of the award several times) second baseman and oft-times unicorn has returned to the fold. I think the only reason that the A's were able to secure such a short deal, apparently it's only two years with an option for a third, and relatively cheaply ($10-11 mil guaranteed for the first two seasons) is because Ellis got injured. I'm just hoping it isn't a Jermaine Dye-kind of situation. I know, I know, Ellis didn't shatter his bone in his leg, but Ellis had shoulder issues and that can be huge for someone who plays such a smooth, error-free second base.
Ellis isn't exactly an awesome force offensively, but that's fine. He does provide some offense when healthy. I mean he's a patient hitter who provides occasional pop. Hell, the A's had him lead off for a while. Course that's more of a reflection of the A's lack of a capable leadoff hitter than Ellis' skills with the bat, but it does say that they think that he could at least work a count capably.
I like the deal. The A's didn't have any very obvious replacements except maybe Cardenas and he probably won't be fully ready until Ellis' deal is up.
I just hope his shoulder is better and he comes through things better than Dye did at the time.
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It's hard to imagine any team getting a better deal this offseason.
I still can’t believe the incredible value that this deal is. I’ll make a Staturday post about it later.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Oct 20, 2008 8:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey sal, could you give us a quick schadenfreude report?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Oct 20, 2008 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sal has to walk around with a ski mask to hide the ear to ear grin on his face.
He also has to keep chewing a giant ball of gum to keep the guffaws muted. While it’s 10 degrees below zero outside, he’s skipping through town without pants.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 20, 2008 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty much accurate.
The giant bonus is that I actually like the Rays very much and would be rooting for them no matter who they had played.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Oct 20, 2008 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's such a steal, I actually feel kind of bad about it
since I like Mark Ellis and don’t want to feel like he’s being robbed.
Then again, it’s not like $12-18 million isn’t enough to retire on.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 20, 2008 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feel bad? Serious?
I mean, I know it’s under market value, but cmon now.
by mikev on Oct 20, 2008 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Paul should have been his agent
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 20, 2008 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still shaking my head.
The hilarious thing is that few understand how great of a deal this is. It’s like being part of a secret club where others don’t get jealous because they don’t understand what there is to be jealous of.
As if the Rays victory last night wasn’t enough…
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Oct 20, 2008 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the deal too, but there are risks right?
A defense first player not completely healthy can become useless pretty quickly, especially a 2B in his thirties. I’m glad he stayed instead of taking 3/$25 somewhere else, but it’s not like this couldn’t turn into a slightly cheaper Kotsay.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 20, 2008 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are risks for any FA signing...
and the in-house 2B options were terrible. If he has years like last year, injury, low ba, and all, it’s still not a bad deal, and if he plays like 2007 it’s highway robbery. I don’t see why his defense should decline more quickly than anyone else because of a shoulder problem. He doesn’t have a good arm anyway. The only risk is being out a not large at all amount of money. Nothing to dislike at all in this deal.
The A's colors are green and gold.
by mikeA on Oct 20, 2008 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's how the deal goes south for the A's.
The A’s are basically playing for +1.5 wins above replacement per year out of Ellis.
Today, Ellis is, very conservatively, a 3-win player (+1 for fielding, +2.5 for replacement, +0.25 for position, -0.5 for hitting) over a full season.
Let’s Ellis takes a step back in fielding, so that in ‘09-’10 he’s +0.75 and +0.25 in fielding. Let’s say he takes a step back in hitting, to -1.0 and -1.5. For those two years, the A’s get 4.0 WAR, or 2.0 WAR per year. Of course, he won’t play all season. Let’s say he misses 40 games each year. That gives the A’s 1.5 WAR per year.
So – if Mark Ellis goes from historically great fielder to slightl above average fielder, and goes from slightly below average hitter to completely terrible hitter, and misses a quarter of each season, then the A’s come out even.
So yeah, if Ellis is any worse than the pessimistic scenario I described, then the A’s come out behind.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Oct 20, 2008 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right
I recall doing something similar a few months ago, and concluding that even if Ellis falls off a cliff performance-wise, he basically couldn’t possibly collapse fast enough to make this a bad deal.
And that was assuming he got 3 or 4 years and substantially more money. The only way this goes south is if he just can’t play baseball at all for a very large part of the contract.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 20, 2008 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like it...
…if it doesn’t include a no-trade clause.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
by Monday Fan on Oct 20, 2008 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have heard nothing of a NTC
so I’m assuming Ellis doesn’t have one.
Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?
by Blicks on Oct 20, 2008 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares? It's two years...
An NTC would reduce it from “really really really really valuable” to merely “really really really valuable.” BFD.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 20, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I care
If Beane were to come up with someone better, I don’t want there to be any roadblocks. I’d like to think Ellis will come back strong from his latest injury but I don’t know that he will. The salary shouldn’t be a problem but a player who refuses to be dealt could be one. But it appears Ellis can be traded so the signing looks good.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
by Monday Fan on Oct 21, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no possibility of the A's producing a better second baseman by 2010
Zero. Zilch. Nada.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 21, 2008 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure there is
Trade Foulke + DLS for Utley.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Oct 21, 2008 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, really?
Since your crystal ball can so accurately predict the future, why don’t you spare us all the suspense and tell us how the 2010 season is going to turn out?
Seriously, the A’s have acquired some pretty good second basemen by trade in the past (including Ellis) and it could happen again for all we know. If Ellis doesn’t come back strong from his injury, it won’t take a top player to give the A’s an upgrade.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
by Monday Fan on Oct 21, 2008 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to go out on a limb here
and guess that if the A’s are going out and trading for a second baseman, he’s probably going to get the starts over a hurting Ellis.
Your arguments just aren’t plausible here. For Ellis to be blocking someone, Ellis has to both be a worse option and be someone who the team THINKS is a better option. It’s hard for him to be a worse option than the current backup players unless he utterly collapses on both offense and defense, and at that point it would be pretty obvious. I’ve already addressed the trade scenario.
In any event, you still haven’t said anything about how an NTC would matter here. If Ellis suffers a catastrophic collapse, you think anyone is going to trade for him? He’s already comically underrated.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 22, 2008 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see it that way
Ellis doesn’t necessarily have to fall of a cliff or be disabled. He could be able to play but with diminished skills, like Jason Kendall. There could be a situation in which a trade is possible and it wouldn’t be good to let Ellis have the right to block it. And why shouldn’t we believe he might block it after he signed so cheaply just so he could stay in Oakland?
On the surface, I agree with you. If Ellis looks like toast, he’s not likely trade bait. But who figured Beane could trade Jason Kendall and get a legitimate player in return? Same thing with Mark Kotsay. I’m glad as hell those trades weren’t blocked.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
by Monday Fan on Oct 22, 2008 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, but...
both Kendall and Kotsay had full no-trade clauses.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 22, 2008 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, they did
But without the clear interest in staying in Oakland that Ellis has demonstrated. In Kendall’s case, he had already waived his no-trade clause to escape Pittsburgh. Kotsay’s no-trade clause was good only through 2006, the first season of his three-year extension. His permission wasn’t required for the trade to Atlanta in January 2008.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
by Monday Fan on Oct 23, 2008 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So if he plays it's a good deal, since he's basically incapable of sucking
bad enough to make it not one.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 20, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yay Mark!
And wasn’t this a fanpost?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 20, 2008 9:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You know it's not official until Blez says so.
Nice to see Mark stay. And apparently on the cheap, too.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 20, 2008 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
there were two, actually
but I don’t care. The more the better!
We're in a team-wide funk. ~Mark Ellis
by #14fan on Oct 20, 2008 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen
Isn’t it a lot nicer to see multiple posts about something we are pretty much all happy about than seeing the 25 Harden woe is me posts?
I may have to make a post saying how happy I am about all of these posts.
"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty
by 5Aces on Oct 20, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Make it a one-word gem
Or one with multiple question marks. Those are my fave.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 20, 2008 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if his shoulder injury
was the cause of his low offensive numbers? At least to the naked eye he seemed to hit A LOT more pop ups than usual and this seemed to be caused by his back (throwing shoulder) dipping when he would begin his swing. With the A’s secrecy about injuries, who knows if he didn’t play with this injury all year?
Anyways, I’m glad he’s back and hope he has a rebound year offensively and finally gets that well deserved gold hardware.
"You can have the alimony. But I want some pussy payments!" - Chris Rock
by oaktownmario on Oct 20, 2008 9:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He did hit a lot more popups this year.
I like your explanation about his shoulder. Just from playing softball on the weekends, even I know that dropping that back shoulder leads to popups.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Oct 20, 2008 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep yer friggin swing LEVEL!
(laughing smiley inserted here)
That has been, without fail, the absolute hardest thing to remember when transitioning from baseball to softball.
by mikev on Oct 20, 2008 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I blame the arc of the ball for this
Because I have the same problem.
I’ve taken to going out of my way to swing down/try to go the opposite way.
by thejd44 on Oct 20, 2008 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, it's totally the arc of the ball.
The “natural” response is an uppercut swing, because it’s swinging the bat on the same plane that the ball is coming from.
Keeping a level swing, but having it be higher in the zone is key – swinging when the ball is chest high instead of belt high.
Waiting on the ball is also huge, especially coming from baseball. It’s like, get ready to swing, COUNT TO THREE, TAKE A SIP OF COFFEE, ADJUST MY JOCK, DIG IN WITH THE BACK FOOT, TAKE A SMALL STRIDE, okay swing now.
by mikev on Oct 20, 2008 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to think opposite field
Or else I rollover on the ball more often than Bobby Crosby and Daric Barton combined.
Bob Geren and Ken Macha both enjoy jai lai.
by CarGon's Jock on Oct 22, 2008 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
time for the Willy Mays Hayes workout
drop for 20 after each popup, that is if his shoulder can handle it.
by asfansince1989 on Oct 20, 2008 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd think small tears would lead to a major tear
a lot easier on a play like the one that did him in more than no tear/injury leading to the major tear. Odds are there was already damage in there, though he may not have been really feeling it with every swing he may have been compensating for it.
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
by DMOAS on Oct 20, 2008 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
also linedrives
he hit 21% linedrives last season vs. 16% this season… caused a 50 point dip in his babip
Cust is the new Jaha.
by johnjahafanclub on Oct 20, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
good observation
I hope Mark comes back healthy and regain his old swing. I hope he still has more left in him. I can’t think of any other player on this team that is so uniformly loved here, maybe besides Chavez.
by asfansince1989 on Oct 20, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would not characterize the relationship of A's fans to Eric Chavez as "uniform love"
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 20, 2008 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there are many
who would love him more without his uniform.
"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL
by oblique on Oct 20, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ooh! Me! Me!
If I don't comment on your comment how will you know you are completely wrong? -Rocktopus
by pam5981 on Oct 20, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
photo is not coming up here
so here’s the link
by OaklandSi on Oct 20, 2008 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
my wife says thank you.
death to myspace!
by malikot on Oct 20, 2008 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen THAT half before.
If I don't comment on your comment how will you know you are completely wrong? -Rocktopus
by pam5981 on Oct 20, 2008 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn i didnt expect this?
when did this happen…great news!!!
by Asfan4ever723 on Oct 20, 2008 10:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
3yr/20mill if options picked up
is that really a bargain or hometown discount since ellis is coming off injury/bad season…sounds about market value to me
by Asfan4ever723 on Oct 20, 2008 10:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
take a look
at recent FA deals for other +3 win players such as Torri Hunter. Also, 2yr 11m is about what the market gives setup relievers or low-end closers, not gold-glove defenders up the middle and quality bats in their early 30s
by MaineAthletic on Oct 20, 2008 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"quality bats"
not so sure about this one
by asfansince1989 on Oct 20, 2008 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe a bit of an exaggeration
but MaEl has a career OPS+ of 99 and years where it has approached 120 when he’s healthy. That means you’re getting league average or above average hitting out of a middle infielder, with the defense to boot.
by MaineAthletic on Oct 20, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wonderful
mark the man back for another two years before weeks or other options are ready. makes perfect sense for the organization and a complete steal given the current FA market. Thank you mark for staying with the team i love
by MaineAthletic on Oct 20, 2008 10:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My son will be almost four when this contract expires
(assuming the option is picked up). I hope Ellis plays out the contract in Oakland, so I can tell my kid that he got to watch Ellis – and maybe he might have some vague memories of it.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Oct 20, 2008 10:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My son is six.....
I’ve been wondering when I’ll be able to tell him that he got to watch Chavez play.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Oct 20, 2008 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have an option on your son?
I suppose my family is more traditional — we’re still operating on a reserve clause.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Oct 20, 2008 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant Ellis's option.
My kid signed me to an 18-year contract, along with options in perpetuity and a vesting personal services contract.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Oct 20, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're going to rue that contact in about 16 years
"The Athletics at Fremont" is soooooooo bad
by ArakSOT on Oct 20, 2008 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's frontloaded
(although his diaper is backloaded)
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Oct 20, 2008 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You better hope he doesn't decide to "explode" onto the scene.
by mikev on Oct 20, 2008 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a lot of patience at first, but he's finally learned to walk.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Oct 20, 2008 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I laughed.
"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL
by oblique on Oct 20, 2008 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're the best.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Oct 20, 2008 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was "you're awesome"?
If I don't comment on your comment how will you know you are completely wrong? -Rocktopus
by pam5981 on Oct 20, 2008 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dang.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Oct 20, 2008 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This exchange is why I love AN.
And hate pretty much everyone else. For there can be no love without hate. As we saw in the ALCS.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 20, 2008 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, that's my line of thinking.
If you hate EVERYBODY, you can’t be labeled as, well, anything.
by mikev on Oct 20, 2008 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate ALMOST everybody
There’s a select few who don’t have me blowing up in their faces on a regular basis. I like the people in AN, though. (For the most part!) XP
Awww… Unicorn's optimistic. And a cheeseball. That’s cute. ~Whiteshoes40
by #14fan on Oct 20, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you hate everybody...
…you really hate nobody. I think.
by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Oct 20, 2008 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or, even more importantly
If you hate everybody, what is hate?
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Oct 20, 2008 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Novice parent, aren't you?
Let me be the first to break the bad news to you. That contract you’re speaking of is heavily back loaded. Beyond belief. I’m talking financial mill stone around the neck back loaded.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Oct 20, 2008 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure its a great deal
But why pay money to block a system filled with second base prospects? I dont know that we will compete next year, and we appear ot be building for ’10, so why lock up Ellis when when we should be auditioning newbies? Its not that its not a great deal, or that Ellis is not worth every penny, and to that end, I am sure he can be traded if and when he needs to be, so I am ok with it, I just didnt get this as a high priority. I feel like its like going to Costco, and getting an amazing deal on something you really dont need.
by mikedaviswhereareyou on Oct 20, 2008 11:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Which second base prospects are you referring to?
Patterson, who is not good at defense (or, apparently, hitting unless it’s in the minors?)
Cardenas, who played Shortstop after getting called up to Midland and is likely to end up on the left side of the infield somewhere?
Weeks, who won’t be ready for the big leagues until the Ellis contract is expired anyway?
by mikev on Oct 20, 2008 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And there's some reason to believe Patterson and Weeks may be better in the outfield anyway
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 20, 2008 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frankly, I'd much rather see Weeks as a CF.
The BJ Upton career path, minus the ridiculous power potential.
by mikev on Oct 20, 2008 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who are all these great second base prospects people are talking about?
Which ones project to be 3+ win players?
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Oct 20, 2008 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how they project doesn't really even matter
we’re only talking about a two year deal, and two prospects who spent the majority of the year in A+ and NCAA.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Oct 20, 2008 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
None of the legitimate 2B prospects...
…are ready to be auditioned at the MLB level just yet. This deal is short enough that it gives them time to properly mature and develop. And if one develops rapidly and there’s a bit of overlap… it’ll be a nice “problem” to have.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Oct 20, 2008 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts...
Like most A’s fans, I love the signing. He’s an above average player (even when he hits like 2008) signed to a short deal at below market price at a position where there’s currently no viable alternative. Plus an option year!
I don’t think Pennington is anyone to worry about blocking. If he can show his two hot months in AAA weren’t a fluke, he’ll be a nice problem to have. As IGoHK said, they’ve already moved Cardenas to SS, and it seems like 3B is his next stop if he doesn’t stick there. I don’t really know what to make of Patterson. He’s hit .311/.366/.484 in 1000 career PA in AAA, but he’d done nothing in 150 PA in MLB. That’s still a pretty small sample size, but it seems to be the main reason ZIPS projects him to hit so poorly. He’s also apparently not so good with the glove.
As for the rest of the infield, everything was a hole last year. Barton was awful this year, but he’s still very young and the A’s have no one who can field the position and outhit him (is Cust hopeless even at 1B?). I wouldn’t mind sticking with Hannahan for another year at 3B. He’s not terrible, and it might be worthwhile to see if Chavez can come back or if Cardenas has to move to 3B before looking for a long term solution. I don’t know if Crosby’s movable, but Petit seems like a similarly (lack of) talented alternative who costs a lot less. I would like to see a FA or trade to improve at SS, but I don’t think Furcal or O-Cab are the answer.
I think Buck should be able to play an average RF, with Sweeney coming close to average in CF. That means either putting Cust in LF and signing Giambi (or some other washed up 1B), or returning Cust to his rightful home at DH and seeking alternatives in LF. Cunningham completed his breeze through the minors as a 22 year old. I think he’ll be a good player down the road, but I don’t know if he’s going to be good enough to be league average at age 23. He could use some more time at AAA with Gonzalez, who has done nothing to show he’s ready for the major league level. That leaves Denorfia, Murton, and Patterson for LF, or they could pursue a free agent.
Alternatively, they could put Rajai Davis in CF with Sweeney and Buck on the corners. They’d be excellent defensively, and Davis is probably just as good offensively as the alternatives given his baserunning.
I’m curious to see what they do with Street. Devine and Ziegler both look great, but I wonder if leaving Street as a setup guy would hurt his trade value. I’m guessing they re-install him as closer. Ziegler’s better off as a situational guy given his GIDP tendencies and platoon split.
For the A’s to contend in 2009, they’ll need some guys on the farm to step up. I think Cahill, Anderson, Simmons, Gio, CarGo, and Cunningham are all capable of filling big roles next year, but none of them should be counted on. But getting an average OFer and an above average SP out of that group for 2009 would go a long way toward contending.
by Danny on Oct 20, 2008 12:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
not to be nitpicky
but i’d like to see some above-average play out of the A’s as well. I agree that around .500 with a possible late-season push for a playoff spot is our best scenario for 2009 but its October 2008 and I think we can try to be a little optimistic. Barton murdered the ball in the minors and despite the statistics (which were fairly normal for a 22 year old everyday rookie with no protection in the lineup) did demonstrate some talent and promise. I project him to be a solid above-average corner infielder starting in 2009. CarGo will fill a big role for this club next year with about 100 starts in the OF. His power numbers should shoot up with experience and he should become a solid corner outfielder for the A’s with some stopgap appearances in center. We all have to look at 2008 performance by this team with some caution because the entire lineup was young developing players. As they all improve they can give each other some protection and get more good pitches with runners on.
by MaineAthletic on Oct 20, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't call what Barton did in AAA in 2007 murdering the ball
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 20, 2008 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would mind Jack Hannahan.
He has a long swing without any power. He can’t hit major league fastballs… how does he expect to survive?
by VORP is too nerdy on Oct 20, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How exactly is Hannahan a better option than Baisley?
Baisley is younger, has more power upside, and is right-handed in a predominantly lefty lineup. The only edge Hannahan has is that he’s putatively better on defense.
I’ve shot my wad on the Cahill/Anderson promotion thing. If you believe that they will somehow be awesome MLB starters at age 21, your optimism goes well beyond what can be rationally argued against. Just for reference here, Matt Cain, who was considered a pitching prodigy, made his MLB debut at an age which would correspond to basically late August of next season.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 20, 2008 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paul...Paul when will you learn not to discriminate based on age?
It’s a meritocracy man!
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 20, 2008 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
meritocracy is not a good standard here. Meritocracy + how much they can gain in AAA are the factors.
Even if one of them is better than Braden next season, that doesn’t mean we should call them up. If they’re better by a ton, then we might, especially if they sustain awesome AAA preformance (indicating they’ve learned most of what they’re going to).
so no, it’s NOT a meritocracy.
by ohmangoAs on Oct 20, 2008 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I’ve shot my wad on the Cahill/Anderson promotion thing."
Would you consider that a money $hot Paul?
by mrod on Oct 20, 2008 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"MoneyShot: The Movie"
Starring me, a variety of man-crushes including Brett Anderson, Chris Denorfia, and Brook Lopez, and Erin Andrews as a token nod to the straight viewership.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 20, 2008 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baisley looked pretty good defensively
SSS, sure, but I’d much rather give him a full season than another full season to Miley.
by thejd44 on Oct 20, 2008 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run
..and now I’ve got this mess on my hands.
au contra ire
by JediLeroy on Oct 20, 2008 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
any word on when the arrested development movie will come out?
by MaineAthletic on Oct 20, 2008 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would much rather baisley start at 3b than hannahan, but
09 ZIPS:
Jack Hannahan 3b 29 .247 .340 .373
Jeff Baisley 3b 26 .239 .296 .362
plus hannahan is better defensively and can play more positions.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Oct 20, 2008 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hannahan's a better hitter and fielder
Baisley was better than Hannahan with the stick this year, but Hannahan blew him out of the water in previous years. In 2007, Hannahan was one of the best hitters in the all of the minors before the A’s picked him up, and he continued hitting better than league average after coming to Oakland. Baisley, meanwhile, had a poor performance in AA that translates to well below replacement level.
Defensively, John Dewan rates Hannahan as the second best defensive 3B in baseball in 2008 (21 plays above average). He tied for the league lead in RZR, though he was about average in ZR. I would guess Hannahan is a solidly above-average defender, while Baisley has a reputation as being OK.
I’ve shot my wad on the Cahill/Anderson promotion thing. If you believe that they will somehow be awesome MLB starters at age 21, your optimism goes well beyond what can be rationally argued against. Just for reference here, Matt Cain, who was considered a pitching prodigy, made his MLB debut at an age which would correspond to basically late August of next season.
Perhaps my post was poorly worded, but I don’t think we disagree much. To clarify, I think Cahill, Anderson, Simmons, and Gio all have the potential to be above-average SPs in MLB. I also don’t think any of them are too far away from reaching that potential. Out of the group of those 4, I would expect one of them to step up and make a real contribution to Oakland in 2009. I certainly wouldn’t bet on any of them, individually.
by Danny on Oct 21, 2008 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea what the F you're talking about Hannahan being a better hitter
Hannahan’s career minors OPS is 60 points worse than Baisley’s. Baisley has 4 fewer home runs in 3 fewer seasons. His isolated power lead is .183 to .121. Hannahan has a minute lead in OBP but that’s not close to overcoming the power deficit. And, Baisley is 3 years younger and has far more (not a lot, but far more) upside.
2007, Hannahan’s SEVENTH year in the minors, was basically the first in which he hit at a high level.
It’s not like I hate Jack Hannahan, I actually like the guy. He’s just not a starting quality MLB player.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 21, 2008 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's what the F I'm talking about
EQA over the past three years across all levels:
Year Jack Jeff
2006 .266 .252
2007 .298 .220
2008 .247 .261
The difference in their 2008 performances is dwarfed by the difference in 2007. Looking back beyond 2008, it’s easy to see why ZIPS likes Jack so much more than Jeff.
by Danny on Oct 21, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You do know Baisley is about 3 years younger than Hannahan, right?
by thejd44 on Oct 21, 2008 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do know that
But Baisley’s not at an age where we should expect much more improvement, and Hannahan’s not at an age where we should expect much decline.
by Danny on Oct 22, 2008 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hannahan should not be within 1000 miles of this team next year
That’s just my opinion
May The Red Sox and all their fans get food poisoning and all collectively crap their pants
by Trainman on Oct 22, 2008 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
I can understand why one wouldn’t want him starting and soaking up any more than 150-200 at bats. But as a reserve, he’s a versatile and useful player.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
by Monday Fan on Oct 22, 2008 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No shit he had a higher EqA in 2006
He was in AAA, Baisley was in Low-A ball. That’s a ridiculously difficult hurdle to surmount.
The correct comparison is Baisley’s 2006 vs. Hannahan’s 2002, etc etc.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 22, 2008 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is that "correct?"
Baisley in 2006 compared to Hannahan in 2002 might be useful if we were comparing Baisley’s expected performance in 2013 to Hannahan in 2009. Even then, it would still be useless since 1) What a player did 7 years ago has virtually no relevance to his current abilities, and 2) There’s no reason to expect Baisley to go on the same development path as Hannahan rather than on a standard development path.
The question is how we should expect them to hit in 2009. To answer this, we have to look at their last few years of performance. Hannahan was a much better hitter than Baisley in 2006-2007. One cannot just ignore this fact and focus solely on 2008. Yes, they played at different levels, which is why we use translated statistics.
Out of curiosity, what do you expect them to hit in 2009? And who do you think is a better fielder?
by Danny on Oct 22, 2008 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hannahan didn't go on a development path at all, that's my point
He had a fluky good season in 2007, as anyone who has been around long enough in the minors will do eventually. It means nothing in the context of his overall play. Baisley’s overall play has been at a substantially higher level.
I’d expect Baisley to hit about 60 OPS points higher than Hannahan in the majors, as he has in the minors. Call it .260/.320/.410 to .230/.310/.360. Maybe Hannahan makes some of that up defensively; I don’t really “see” what the metrics are showing, but he’s probably a bit better.
And on top of that, even if I was convinced Hannahan was a better option next year, I would still prefer to play Baisley because he has more upside in future years.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 22, 2008 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't just ignore perfromance that you don't like
He had a fluky good season in 2007, as anyone who has been around long enough in the minors will do eventually. It means nothing in the context of his overall play.
There is simply no valid reason to ignore Hannahan’s AAA or MLB performance in 2007. Declaring it a fluke and waiving it away with your hand doesn’t make it disappear. It actually happened, and it’s a big part of the data we have to evaluate Hannahan.
Baisley’s overall play has been at a substantially higher level.
No, it hasn’t, as I showed with EQA. I guess you’re right if we simply pretend Hannahan’s best year never happened, but that’s not very objective.
And are we also ignoring the fact that Baisley hit well below league average in AA last year as a 24 year old?
And on top of that, even if I was convinced Hannahan was a better option next year, I would still prefer to play Baisley because he has more upside in future years.
Baisley has very little upside. He’ll be 26 next year, which isn’t an age where players generally continue to show a lot of growth. He’s pretty much off the prospect radar in terms of scouts, and he doesn’t project to hit anywhere near MLB quality.
The entire case for Baisley rests on 300 good AB in AAA last year—and even that good half-season was driven by a likely-unrepeatable .324 BABIP.
by Danny on Oct 22, 2008 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, so I don't get to ignore 2007
but you get to ignore 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005.
Sounds fair.
In any case, Hannahan’s pretty well established record of MLB mediocrity at this point would make him a worse option for the future even if he wasn’t 3 years older with a substantially weaker minor league hitting track record. Baisley doesn’t have to have huge upside (which is good, because he doesn’t) to be a better option than Hannahan. He just has to have ANY upside, because Hannahan has none.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Oct 22, 2008 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should we also count 1991?
I hear Hannahan was below replacement level in Little League that season.
But you don’t seriously think 2001-2005 have much relevance in projecting performance in 2009, do you? Do you think they’re anywhere near as relevant as 2007 is?
There’s a very good reason to ignore 2001-2005, which is why virtually every projection system will do so in projecting 2009 performances. The more time that has passed, the less relevant the performance. Perhaps the 2005 season should receive a bit of weight.
Conversely, there’s absolutely no reason to ignore 2007, other than to attempt to advance a point that isn’t supported by the evidence. No projection system would ignore 2007 in projecting 2009.
In any case, Hannahan’s pretty well established record of MLB mediocrity at this point would make him a worse option for the future even if he wasn’t 3 years older with a substantially weaker minor league hitting track record.
This makes no sense. Why would Hannahan’s mediocrity (and since when is <600 AB "well-established?) mean that he’s a worse option than Baisley? Don’t we have to first evaluate Baisley?
Your argument about upside also makes little sense. Just one season ago, Hannahan was much better than Baisley has any reasonable hope of ever being. Yet it’s Baisley that has the higher upside?
by Danny on Oct 22, 2008 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like most...
…I think this is a great deal for the team. I would imagine Ellis is happy with it also, as I’m sure he and his agent know full well they could have added a few dollars on the open market. It’s not always all about the money with everybody.
"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds
by UncleLeo on Oct 20, 2008 12:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
They finally put the news on Oaklandathletics.com
Took them long enough. And it hardly says anything, either. Just goes to show AN is better!
Awww… Unicorn's optimistic. And a cheeseball. That’s cute. ~Whiteshoes40
by #14fan on Oct 20, 2008 12:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Infield
I hope now BB focuses on replacing(trading/ cement blocks on feet) BoCros now that Ellis is out of the way. There are a lot of questions in the infield at the moment with Injuries(chavez & ellis) and Barton having a horrible year. BoCros is no longer a question, it has been answered by his horrible full season last year.
by pcoco on Oct 20, 2008 1:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
good news
My seven year old daughter will be especially happy. She shares MEllis’ 6/6 birthday and he’s her favorite player.
As a matter of fact, Unicorn boy sort of made a guest appearance at our house yesterday. My daughter and her sleepover friend created a “show” for my wife and I. Without going into too much detail, her friend, “The Queen”, sent my daughter (“the maid”) on a quest to find a “suitable husband” (their words!) for the Queen’s protege, a girl doll (Jessie from Toy Story). Anyway, when my daughter emerged, it was with the only suitable husband she could find in her room: her Mark Ellis bobblehead.
by Brian in 317 on Oct 20, 2008 1:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
it's a sign!
of what, I’m not sure…
by OaklandSi on Oct 20, 2008 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I laughed.
Awww… Unicorn's optimistic. And a cheeseball. That’s cute. ~Whiteshoes40
by #14fan on Oct 20, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crazy. My birthday is June 6, too!
Clearly your daughter (and MaEl) is made of awesome.
by mikev on Oct 20, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Jessie.
Lots of grit.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 20, 2008 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
good to see you posting here, brian.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Oct 20, 2008 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to ESPN...
opening day is questionable for Ellis
“We’d love to be optimistic about Eric,” Forst said. “Certainly having him and Mark in place at the start of the season would be great. We’re looking forward to having Mark the next three years, not necessarily opening day. As we’ve learned with Eric, we want to make sure he’s OK for the long haul.”
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane
by athleticsBB4life on Oct 20, 2008 1:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And so it begins.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 20, 2008 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pre-emptively, this does not change my opinion.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Oct 20, 2008 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he'll be back by ST
The few articles I read yesterday when the news broke all said he was expected to report on time.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Oct 20, 2008 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's 168 days until Opening Day...
…I think we’re pretty much all questionable at this point.
by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Oct 20, 2008 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're counting down the days?
Awww… Unicorn's optimistic. And a cheeseball. That’s cute. ~Whiteshoes40
by #14fan on Oct 20, 2008 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't everyone?
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 20, 2008 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was leaving that to other people.
I’m math impaired.
Awww… Unicorn's optimistic. And a cheeseball. That’s cute. ~Whiteshoes40
by #14fan on Oct 20, 2008 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wat r math?
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra
by Cheezombie on Oct 20, 2008 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beyond the Box Score has had approximately 473 Ellis posts in the last three days,
including today’s Best Second Basemen of 2008 (with MaEl at #10). And then there’s this tidbit:
Oh, and we here at BtB would like to remind everyone that Ellis will also eventually cure cancer, move the money Wall St. lost back to Main St., and be the first to visit a neighboring solar system.
Now, that money thing might be impossible, but I could see our unicorn heading out to a neighboring solar system one of these days. Maybe he’ll find some magic medicine to cure his shoulder forever.
by whiteshoes40 on Oct 20, 2008 3:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I predict if Ellis conquers a neighboring solar system, he'll bring back more than enough money for all of us
Also girls.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 20, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like this signing
It’s one less time I have to hear “who is that” from my wife next year.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Oct 20, 2008 3:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So when you get a phone call, you'll say "It's just Mark Ellis, dear"?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Oct 20, 2008 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
(…of the baseball unicorn species, that is, and of Mark Ellis as the unicorn whisperer. Then scroll up and read the whole thread for Mark’s full Awesomeness Quotient.)
Ray: "How fun is it to be up here playing in the Big Leagues?"
Gio: "It's *SUPER* fun!!!"
by Poppy on Oct 20, 2008 4:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I just re-read that thread (which I found through the ANcillary Terms)
because I had forgotten the origin of unicorn. Good times. Tangentially, Buan should never, ever do play-by-play.
by whiteshoes40 on Oct 20, 2008 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ANcillary Terms is dead to me.
Ray: "How fun is it to be up here playing in the Big Leagues?"
Gio: "It's *SUPER* fun!!!"
by Poppy on Oct 20, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I have gathered that,
but it still is pretty useful for some of the older stuff.
by whiteshoes40 on Oct 20, 2008 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless you want a link that goes to the comment it's supposed to go to.
But hey, if people have time to read entire diaries while looking for a one-liner that explains the term they’re wondering about, more power to ’em.
Ray: "How fun is it to be up here playing in the Big Leagues?"
Gio: "It's *SUPER* fun!!!"
by Poppy on Oct 20, 2008 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where is that thread???!?!?
What are you guys talking about?
Awww… Unicorn's optimistic. And a cheeseball. That’s cute. ~Whiteshoes40
by #14fan on Oct 20, 2008 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Click Poppy's Origin of Species link.
by whiteshoes40 on Oct 20, 2008 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now I understand where the Unicorn thing came from....
but how did he turn INTO a unicorn? I’m confused, but I still like the nickname!!
Awww… Unicorn's optimistic. And a cheeseball. That’s cute. ~Whiteshoes40
by #14fan on Oct 20, 2008 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this writer is annoyed by....
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane
by athleticsBB4life on Oct 20, 2008 4:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That Tango thread irks me
Because of the mentions of “gritty white guy” among the comments. “Gritty” = overvalued and overpaid. Ellis is the opposite of that.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Oct 22, 2008 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it.
He’s mad at Ellis for not being greedy and realizing that money is not everything in this sport? Ellis is a role model for not only how to conduct yourself in baseball but also off the diamond. Plays hard, leads his team by example, and doesn’t expect to be shown the money. Very, very admirable if you ask me.
Oh and $20M ain’t chump change as well.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Oct 20, 2008 5:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That was supposed to be in reply to the above comment.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Oct 20, 2008 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The obvious rejoinder
Why don’t you do the “very very admirable” thing and demand a pay cut.
Of course, I’m glad Ellis is staying (and that we got such a great deal) but I don’t see anything admirable – or bad – about Ellis’ conduct. He just made the choice he wanted.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Oct 20, 2008 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
And I’m not just saying that because I like him. It is true that money isn’t everything. He could have gotten a lot more elsewhere, but he decided to stay were he was happy, and it’s obvious it’s really going to help the team as well. Yay Unicorn!
I’m so glad he’s staying!!!
Awww… Unicorn's optimistic. And a cheeseball. That’s cute. ~Whiteshoes40
by #14fan on Oct 20, 2008 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
If that guy is so upset at Ellis for taking less money, why then, does he not pony up the rest of the dough he “thinks” Ellis should have received?
“Ya dumb bastard!” -Don Nelson
by mrod on Oct 20, 2008 6:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
To me in just shows that Ellis has a mature outlook on life.
He’s already got all the money he’ll ever need. For a ball player, at this point in the salary game, it’s more a way of keeping score than it is about income. I think he knows now what Jason wished he knew seven years ago. To wit, there’s not a lot of difference in standard of living between 90M and 120M.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Oct 20, 2008 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Watch Ellis grow a porn 'stache
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Oct 20, 2008 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then Jason takes him shopping for gold thongs.
If I don't comment on your comment how will you know you are completely wrong? -Rocktopus
by pam5981 on Oct 20, 2008 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And then #14fan and Poppy can die happy
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Oct 20, 2008 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
:p I am so happy about this!!
even my friends have noticed I’m not as depressed as usual!!!!
I love Ellis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He’s AMAZING!!!
Awww… Unicorn's optimistic. And a cheeseball. That’s cute. ~Whiteshoes40
by #14fan on Oct 20, 2008 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am so happy for you!
And for us!
39 remarkable innings.
by ZigFan31 on Oct 20, 2008 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One that makes Rollie envious I hope.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Oct 20, 2008 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Convo between BB and MaEl
MaEl: “I want 10 million a year and Jason Giambi on our 2009 opening day roster.”
BB: “No.”
MaEl: “okay 5.5 a year and Jason Giambi on our opening day roster.”
BB: “Deal.”
Yes! we are getting Giambi. The End.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Oct 20, 2008 6:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i HEART MaEl.
“Oakland always would have been my top choice. It’s where I’m comfortable and where I’ve played my whole career,” Ellis said. “If I know that’s where I want to be there’s no reason to go look around.”
""These guys are a different breed of ballclub." - Twins manager Ron Gardenhire on the A's
by gotgreen on Oct 20, 2008 7:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ellis provided my (probably) single favorite A's moment this year
…when he knocked a home run out of the park after an epic 13-pitch at bat in Texas back in June facing Frank Francisco.
I see the risks of it, especially given the team’s luck with Dye and Chavez after their deals were signed, but it’s a good deal overall it seems and the part of the A’s fan in me that’s emotionally wrapped up in the team is glad to see a familiar face we like stick around for a while/change.
I was going to buy a copy of The Power of Positive Thinking, and then I thought: "What the hell good would that do?"
by Jackson23 on Oct 21, 2008 3:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not sure
I’m in the obvious minority but I don’t think it’s such a great signing. The A’s probably won’t be great this year, they know what Ellis is, so why not let a young rook play like Patterson or Pennington. I look at Blake Dewitt on the Dodgers who really contributed out of the blue. Thus, I’m not a big fan of this signing, especially ‘cause the A’s don’t really need any more .250 hitters with no power.
by Zs2 on Oct 21, 2008 8:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I see your point mostly
But going from the end first: Mark Ellis is a 2B who can hit 15 home runs a season. That is in no way whatsoever “no power.” And when you suggest Pennington, who probably won’t hit 15 home runs in his entire major league career, as a possible replacement you’re making a flawed argument.
Now, as for the idea of letting kids play/continuing the rebuilding. It’s a valid point, but only if you think Ellis is so far past his prime that he won’t be valuable. The A’s have plenty of young players. Having a great defensive player out there as a veteran anchor of sorts is hardly a bad thing. And he’s blocking Patterson and Pennington, as you said. It’s not as though he’s blocking anybody who is all that good.
The reasons you gave are why it was a good idea to trade Kotsay, but they don’t apply to Ellis.
by thejd44 on Oct 21, 2008 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patterson sucks
he cant play D and he cant hit.
Mark Ellis is a gold gloves 2B with a decent bat, and he is a greatt guy in the clubhouse.
by Wreckonized on Oct 22, 2008 9:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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