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Projecting the Enemy: Angels

This is the first in a multi-part series on how the A's should approach next season. That question-- to keep selling, to start buying, etc-- is profoundly affected by what the other teams in the division figure to do. So the first step is to figure out: how many wins is it gonna take next year?

Star-divide

We start with the hated enemy, or as some would have them be known, the Slegna. Believe it or not, and I know that many of you don't believe it, but all I can do is present the numbers-- the Angels were not a good team this year. They were an 84-game winner which happened to outplay their true talent by an enormous margin of about 16 games. The exact details of how they did so are somewhat unimportant here, though, because what we're after is how good the 2009 Angels will be, and that won't be the same team as the 2008 version.

The great advantage of this kind of analysis is that it's modular. If they suddenly convert to Beaneian offensive philosophy, get rid of Garret Anderson and sign Adam Dunn, we can instantly adjust their LF projection and come up with a new projected win total for Anaheim. I know this doesn't account for team chemistry, "intangibles," or the fact that Adam Dunn doesn't like baseball. Tough. You got a way to account for those, let me know.

Lineup:

C: Mike Napoli (+15 runs offensively, -5 runs defensively)

The Angels love Jeff Mathis. I mean, love, love, love the guy. How else (other than injury) can you explain playing him over a guy he is vastly worse than for more than half the season? Still, I think the game is up for him. I expect Napoli to get about 2/3 of the starts here. That adds up to a good catcher position, though Napoli isn't good defensively.

1B: Kendry Morales (-20 runs offensively, 0 runs defensively)

No Mark Teixeira, or even Casey Kotchman. Morales is mediocre offensively and defensively for a first baseman. ZiPS likes him more than his MLB numbers justify; I think he'll be a little worse and put up about a .720 OPS, which is bad for a 1B.

2B: Howie Kendrick et al. (0 runs offensively, -5 runs defensively)

Kendrick has enough of a track record of niggling injuries at this point that it seems safe to write in replacement level production for the spot for a third of the season. Kendrick is significantly above average offensively for second base, but once you adulterate him with the filler that will be standing in for him, this position looks a lot less secure.

SS: Erick Aybar (-10 runs offensively, 5 runs defensively)

Why they like this guy, I can't tell. He's pretty good defensively, but he can't hit a lick and ZiPS is even more bearish on him than his line from this year would show. However, we again have to account for replacements. Maicer Izturis is a better player. Overall I expect the Angels to get a slugging-heavy high-.600 OPS in this spot, which isn't good.

3B: Chone Figgins (-5 runs offensively, -5 runs defensively)

This position was a catastrophe for the 2008 Angels. Figgins is not really an offensive force and is frankly bad defensively at the position. He appears to be afraid of the ball (hey, I would be) sometimes. They'd really do better putting him in the outfield, but I'm not complaining.

LF: Garret Anderson (0 runs offensively, -5 runs defensively)

Yeah, I think he's coming back. No, it doesn't make sense from a business perspective. But I think there's just enough arrogance in the Angels front office that they think they can withstand having him, just as the Red Sox thought they could withstand having Bill Buckner playing first base at the end of Game 6 of the 1986 World Series.

CF: Torii Hunter (15 runs offensively, 0 runs defensively)

Credit where credit is due: Hunter is a very good offensive center fielder. We don't have to give him credit for being great defensively, though (he isn't). In fact, he's slipped to being slightly below average, though I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on rounding error.

RF: Gary Matthews (-10 runs offensively, 5 runs defensively)

Sorry, ZiPS. You tell me Matthews is league average. I tell you these are pernicious lies. Matthews has a career OPS+ of 94 and he was worse last year. He makes up for it a bit with a plus glove in corner OF, but not enough.

DH: Vlad (15 runs offensively)

Vlad's offensive dominance isn't going to change, but having him DH (and/or play the field, which he is no longer capable of doing competently) really eats into that.

Add these up and you get an offense which is about 10 runs below average. That actually seems a little optimistic to me, because the Angels were 10th in the AL in runs this year and Teixeira isn't around to pull up the second half numbers anymore. I think the difference is partly health-based, as the Angels were a bit unlucky this year with injuries.

Pitching

John Lackey (15 runs)

Did you know Lackey had a 92 tRA+ this season? Weird, huh? He was actually really lucky this season. I think it's a fluke (albeit one of those weird flukes which is masked by another fluke so that everything looks normal) but I also think he's past his prime a little.

Ervin Santana (15 runs)

Talk about randomly turning your career around. I'm still not a total believer, but I'm converted enough to give him a +15, which is damn good.

Jered Weaver (5 runs)

Just not that good. His 2006 really looks fluky at this point.

Joe Saunders (0 runs)

REALLY not that good. Once in a while a strikethrower will have a season where he just has a really low BABIP and looks like a good pitcher. Often these seasons lead to regrettable contracts (see: Silva, Carlos).

Who Knows (-20 runs)

Knows really hasn't done much in his career, so you figure they have to replace him on the market somehow.

Bullpen: (15 runs)

Missing K-Rod, but the Angels still have some additional good relievers. I have to say, it's a little weird how Darren Oliver suddenly got good at age 38. He is, however, a free agent to be.

 

Overall: The Angels project out as a team that's about 20 runs above average. In common parlance, that's about 83-79. Rule of thumb is that you have a shot if you can get within 6 wins of the opposition (baseball is random, game of inches, insert your cliche here) so right now it looks like the A's need to get to 77 wins to be vaguely competitive. This is going to change, however. I don't see them going with Dustin Moseley as the #5 starter.

8 recs  |  Comment 166 comments

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I tried to find stats on "Who Knows"

and came up with nothing. What the hell?

by VORP is too nerdy on Oct 11, 2008 11:36 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It's weird how the Angels are so much worse than they seem.

But I’m slightly worried about Texas next year too. If they could ever just get some pitching, rather than trading it away (imagine if they had Chris Young, John Danks, and Edinson Volquez, although you subtract Josh Hamilton), I think that they would probably be the best in the Division. I really think that because this is a weak division, the A’s have a shot next year. The main thing I’m worried about with the A’s is their starting pitching. I don’t believe in Dana, Greg Smith is just ok, Gallagher could be good but so far not so much, Braden could be pretty good, Gio has way too many walks, Duke is good but not ‘best in the league’ good, and Outman needs more seasoning. I think that will be near the edge of being competitive next season, but we may have to wait one more season before we are seriously good again. Having said that, if Buck keeps up his september tear throughout next season, swooney and zooks keep up the good work, ellis returns to form, we find a competent third baseman or chavez stays healthy-ish, and cargon or aaron cunningham contribute in a big way, all bets are off and Slegna should watch it’s back.

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Oct 11, 2008 12:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Not sure about the Rangers

Their best hitter was Milton Bradley, and I’m almost certain that that was a fluke. He put up career highs in essentially every offensive category this year. He played in 126 games, which is second best in his career. He’s going to be 31 two weeks into next season… Look, I’ve always believed Milton had a ton of talent, and I think he’s vastly underrated because some of his intangibles get in the way… but he’s also injury-prone. I just don’t see him putting up those kinds of numbers in that many games again next year.

Hamilton is good, but he’s really not that good. The media treats him as though he’s David Ortiz or Albert Pujols because of his personal story, but he’s not one of the elite hitters in the league, I don’t think. BP says he’s a bad centerfielder… as he was 13 runs below average this year over 111 games. I’m just not sure he can carry that team.

Plus.. man their pitching is absolutely atrocious. Horrible. Terrible.

by VORP is too nerdy on Oct 11, 2008 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and yet they finished with a better record than us...

so i dunno, i’d say that we have the upper hand because we have young talented pitching, but the Rangers should not be dismissed or overlooked. I think that they may have just as good of a chance as the A’s to win the division next year, with the Angels in the lead, of course.

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Oct 11, 2008 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh ... that's not true ...

this analysis leaves the Angels with $30m in the bank …

The Angels won’t be left with $30m in the bank …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Oct 15, 2008 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha ha. Funny.

How about you do your own analysis, then?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 15, 2008 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he just did

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 16, 2008 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well just for starters,

I think they willl re-sign Mark to a long term deal, and I think they will actively pursue C.C. Sabathia.

by mattman on Oct 16, 2008 7:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

PT's point was that he was analyzing the roster as it is NOW

so that in the future, you can plug in whoever they sign into the win totals and adjust for that. Right now though, we know at a bare minimum we are going to have to win 83 gamesish (77 to be within a lucky shot). sure it seems like Tex will stay, but we don’t know that yet. How can you account for that until it happens?

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Oct 16, 2008 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I write, they do not read

Let me outline this in as simple of terms as possible: the purpose of these articles is NOT TO PREDICT THE OUTCOME OF THE DIVISIONAL RACE NEXT SEASON. It’s to provide a reference background to compare subsequent moves to.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 16, 2008 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, why didn't you just SAY so?

Much clearer now.

{Risking infuriating PT further, but what the hell}

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 16, 2008 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still don't agree with your comments,

regarding Hunter, Figgins, and Kendrick. I think you have terribly under estimated each of their abilities.

by mattman on Oct 16, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK

If that’s the level of analysis you’re going through (saying “you’re wrong” with no factual grounding whatsoever) I see no particular reason to bother responding to it.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 16, 2008 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But PT, try this one on for size

They have recognizable names. Ergo they are good. QED you’re an idiot.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 20, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Neftali Feliz is coming in a few years.

I wonder if the Rangers will be trading him.

Like they did John Danks/Armando Galarraga.

Now with 100% more Canuck.

by Blicks on Oct 11, 2008 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'll see on them, soon enough

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 11, 2008 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that Texas could be a real force next year if...

Hicks signs some pitching to go along with that offense!

"What do we do with Crosby? Well, in my neighborhood, trash goes out on Mondays." ~ Nico

by MMunoz33 on Oct 18, 2008 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They also need to revamp their defense. Young and Hamilton have to move.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 18, 2008 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're probably a tad low on

Weaver and Saunders, though only a tad. Weaver’s been better than +5 all three years by tRA. Figgins is probably better than -5, too. This was his worst year in awhile, and the high obp and SBs are pretty valuable. Agree with the rest though, and I don’t disagree much with the ones I mentioned. It’s not much of an offense without Tex, especially since the injury backups were awful this year, but the pitching should be excellent. It’s possible Lackey may start decline.

One would think they’ll be active on the FA market. I predict they’ll sign Sabathia, who apparently wants to play in S. Cal. and some reasonable non-Tex 1B option. The current group with no FA signings is not much better than average, as you suggest.

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Oct 11, 2008 12:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

if they sign CC and a better 1b, what does that push them to?

I am not sure how runs equate to wins, but with CC in the fold, does that make them an 87 win team, rather than an 83 win team? And if so, does that mean the A’s are now out of contention? Or will a more experienced rotation, lineup, and a signing or two improve our win total?

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Oct 11, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok so if the Angels sign CC, the A's are pretty much out of contention for next year?

somehow I don’t see the A’s being a 90 win team next year (which is what the Angels would be according to their current 83 win team plus CC for another 7 wins), unless they are very very flukey or somehow we get a big signing and a big trade.

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Oct 12, 2008 1:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, sure

but I do not think they will be able to or in fact succeed in signing Sabathia.

His Yankees jersey is being tailored as we speak.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sabs would prefer to play on the West Coast

The Angels can match dollars with the Yankees. If LA wants him they could get him.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 12, 2008 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and there's a rumor that if the Yanks don't get CC

Peavy might be open to a trade with the Yankees, but that deal would have to be similar to what the Twins were trying to get for Johan, of course. It would really depend on if the Yanks wanted to depart with Hughs or not.

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Oct 12, 2008 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Angels cannot come close to matching dollars with the Yankees

As I noted, they have around $15 million to spend, at most $25 if they decline Anderson’s option (which leaves them shallow in the outfield). The Yankees have approx. $80 million to spend.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Call it $21 million annual for Sabs

Swisher makes $5+ million in 2009.

I don’t think the Yankees throw $25+ million at Sabs, especially since they’re 1st in line for Tex.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 12, 2008 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why not?

Their revenues go up massively next year in the new stadium….unless the economy collapses.

[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 12, 2008 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scoff - like THAT would ever happen.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 12, 2008 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sports have usually been relatively immune to economic crises

But with teams more dependent on large corpoprations (luxury suites, advertising dollars, etc.) than ever, that may not be the case anymore. The average fan will still go to games, but the other money might not be there for a while.

by thejd44 on Oct 12, 2008 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the depression hit the philadelphia A's pretty hard

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Oct 12, 2008 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As I recall, it was why they decided not to

pursue Jamie Moyer in free agency in 1930.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 12, 2008 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

QOTM

That was pretty funny.

99 MPH with as much control as a deflating balloon - CurveballKing on H-Rod

by Scottbass on Oct 12, 2008 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I laughed.

"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL

by oblique on Oct 12, 2008 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually

Steinbrenner recently told the NY media that between Burnett, Lowe, and Sabathia, two of them will be wearing pinstripes next season….

by stranahanahan on Oct 12, 2008 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Link?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no link, read it in passing and don't recall

but it also mentioned that the yankees are willing and able to spend much more than anyone else, and the source commented on the fact that if Sabathia has a significantly higher offer from the yankees than anyone else, the player’s union would ultimately pressure him into taking the best offer…

by stranahanahan on Oct 15, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i saw something like that on mlbtraderumors.com

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Oct 15, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I heard that

Chalk up part of that to the Yankees being the Yankees and thinking they can buy God. I can see them landing Burnett but if the Angels are willing to bid on Sabs he does have a West Coast bias. I do not think the Yankees will be willing to make Sabathia a $25 million a year player.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 12, 2008 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why wouldn't they pay Sabathia that?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 12, 2008 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They're going to let Giambi go

They’ve got Tex as the #1 replacement so there’s $20 million plus. Burnett’s going to run $15 million annual. Sabs is going to cost just as much as Tex.

That’s a lot of cash, even for the Yankees. They are going to have to prioritze and Sabathia will not top their wish list. They need a new 1st baseman and Cashman will push for Tex over Sabs because the position player is the better (or at least safer) in vestment for $20+ million a year.

Sabathia has made it known he wants to play on the West Coast if he doesn’t decide to stay in Milwaukee… he’ll at least consider the Brewers because he’s happy there and HE WANTS TO BE COMFORTABLE IN HIS NEW DIGS! He knows he’s going to get a boatload of cash wherever he ends up. The Angels can supply said boatload, so could the Dodgers for that matter but I’m not sure they have the cash or the need, what with Billingsley & Kershaw.

The Angels don’t have to outspend the Yankees to land Sabs, they just need to be competitive.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 12, 2008 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They need to outspend the Giants too...

Haven’t seen them mentioned, but a variety of broad hints have been dropped that the Giants are going to go after Sabathia pretty hard.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm assuming Sabs want to play for a contender

The Giants don’t qualify.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 12, 2008 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, basically, you're assuming he signs with the Angels

Not much arguing with that, is there.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the Angels let Tex breath free air

they ain’t getting him back!

So yeah, I’m calling Sabs to LA.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 12, 2008 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's cute

that grover still believes Free Agents when they say they’ll take a pay cut for various reasons.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 13, 2008 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why are the A's any closer

to being a contender than SF? They have a much better shot at winning their division than Oakland as of next season.

by Pucking Insane on Oct 18, 2008 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?

I didn’t say anything about the A’s being more or less of a contender than the Giants. You sure you made this comment in the right spot?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 18, 2008 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would be like little league all over again

The best pitcher on the team is also the best hitter!

by mikev on Oct 13, 2008 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Breaking News...

Yanks sign Clapton

99 MPH with as much control as a deflating balloon - CurveballKing on H-Rod

by Scottbass on Oct 13, 2008 2:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

CC is very possible

And if not, wouldn’’t rule out Teixeira returning. But I think they’re almost guaranteed to make one significan free agency investment

by windyfelix on Oct 11, 2008 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would also agree

that Saunders may be a little low, and Santana may be a little high, but if you add/subtract 5 runs each respectively, it evens out anyways so no harm no foul there.

Also, if they sign CC, one thing is for sure, he won’t hurt the A’s at the Coliseum…

That’s not to say he won’t dominate the other 12 AL teams but it just seems the A’s always light him up at home.

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Oct 11, 2008 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who Knows

would probably be someone like Nick Adenhart.

As for 1B, they’ll probably resign Teixiera.

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Oct 11, 2008 12:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I expect Tex to end up in a Yankees uniform

And I wouldn’t be surprised if the Giants were stupid again and signed Sabathia. The Dodgers might even spend some money on him. The Angels might win that sweepstakes, but it won’t be easy.

by thejd44 on Oct 11, 2008 1:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think some people are still underestimating the Angels

Granted, they’re overrated by just about the rest of the sports world.

Somebody else on here made an interesting point earlier this year about how the Angels are built like that for a reason. Their long relievers basically just suck, but the rest of their bullpen is fantastic.

Therefore, when they’re losing big and early, they go to their long relievers and the games turn into blowouts. But when their starters do alright and turns it over to Sheilds and Rodriguez, the bullpen keeps it that way.

In the end, they lose a couple of games by 10 runs, but win several games by one or two runs, which makes their run differences distorted. I’m not sure if I explained this well enough, but I’m also in the camp that says there’s no way they can repeat that road record next year. It’ll be a much better race next year

by NateHST on Oct 11, 2008 2:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That was me - I do think the Angels will regress next season

but I think they are absolutely better than an 83 win team as is.

My concern is that if the Angels did sign Sabathia, they could then turn around and trade Santana or Saunders to get a bat and not miss a beat.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 11, 2008 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you think that Nick Adenhart will suddenly turn into a better than average pitcher, yes...

If not, then they would absolutely “miss a beat” doing this. They have no rotation depth to speak of right now.

I suppose there is some chance that Kelvim Escobar could come back and return to effectiveness, but it’s equally possible that he will come back and suck horribly for a while because his arm is shot, a la Mark Mulder.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 11, 2008 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are plenty of other teams with highly leveraged bullpens, none of which have outperformed their projected record to any significant degree

Honestly, that might be worth 1 win over a season? 2, at most?

And, really, the fact that it shakes out that way is far more a coincidence than deliberate. I somehow don’t think they set out before the season to sign a bunch of craptastic back-bullpen guys out of some perverse desire to discredit pythag.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 11, 2008 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Angels are freakish in their ability to outperform 'true' talent

As much faith as I put in statistical analysis, I think at some point you have to give the Angels credit for their sustained ability to outperform their statistical projections every year. If the numbers peg them as an 83 win team, their historical performance seems to suggest they’ll end up at more like 85-87 wins.

That being said, they are vastly overrated by the national media. They played in a very weak division, and I agree they were probably a 5th place team in the AL East this year.

by MrIncognito on Oct 12, 2008 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know how many wins they are "over pythag" in the Scoscia years?

It’s like 5 wins this decade. The last time I checked the A’s had outperformed their pythag more since 2000 than the Angels had.

A bunch of bad luck followed by a bunch of good luck might make the good luck karmic justice, or something, but it doesn’t make it a skill.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Year Pythag wins Actual wins wins over pythag
2008 88 100 +12
2007 90 94 +4
2006 84 89 +5
2005 93 95 +2
2004 91 92 +1
2003 80 77 -3
2002 101 99 -2
2001 77 75 -2
2000 82 81 +1

So that’s +18 wins over 9 years. That 2003 team was led by Tim Salmon, Brad Fullmer, and Troy Glaus. The current core of players has consistently outperformed their pythag record.

by MrIncognito on Oct 12, 2008 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

also, the A’s are +12 over that period.

by MrIncognito on Oct 12, 2008 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't most teams with good records outperform their Pythag?

Selection bias or something…

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 12, 2008 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This seems like a really good theory.

It shouldn’t be too hard to test…

by ohmangoAs on Oct 13, 2008 1:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quite easy ...

and with some rather surprising results …

Among all teams from 1970 through 2007
with a .450 or worse pW% : 241 wins MORE than expected
with a .550 or better pW%: 275 wins FEWER than expected
in the middle: 9 wins MORE than expected
(rounding error accounts for the differences)

of course, teams with good records do tend to have over performed their Pythag

with a .450 or worse W% : 212 wins FEWER than expected
with a .550 or better W%: 281 wins MORE than expected
in the middle: 94 wins FEWER than expected

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Oct 20, 2008 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There must be some rounding error in those numbers

since they have all teams collectively winning 25 fewer games than expected… which is obviously impossible.

In any event, the pattern is fairly clear. Given the a priori existence of 5 straight winning seasons, we can predict that the Angels would probably have a positive “wins over pythag” number in that time period.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 20, 2008 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I did note that there was rounding error ...

And, yes, on average, we’d expect any team with a better than .550 record to be about one win better than their pythag record. The Angels, though, have been about three wins better on average — which, while not enough to account for the SSS is enough to be curious about …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Oct 20, 2008 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but they have good records because they outperform their Pythag ...

not vice versa …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Oct 20, 2008 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, so I was only 13 off...

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But...

If you look at 2000-2007, they were +6, just one off. So other than this extremely flukey year, they’ve slightly outperformed. However, the difference between beating your projection by 2-5 games, which happens pretty commmonly throughout the league, and doing so by 12 games, has to scream that they’re gonna fall back down at least somewhat.

Last year it was Seattle exceeding theirs by 9 games, this year it will be the angels. thats just too much luck to repeat.

by SuperBean on Oct 12, 2008 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As I posted above, why we would include to 2000-2003 teams in our expectations of the current players is a little puzzling to me. The fact that Salmon, Fullmer, and Glaus underperformed their pythag record has little to do with what our expectations for the currect group should be. If you look at performance of the current crop of players, it is reasonable to expect them to be a couple games better than their projected pythag record.

by MrIncognito on Oct 19, 2008 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They should just give you your J.D. now

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Oct 13, 2008 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Morales

Somehow I doubt he’s the opening day 1B. Re-signing Tex a long shot, but I think they’ll go to some kind of plan B like, perhaps, Aubrey Huff.

As for Lackey, doesn’t it seem like this guy is always getting a little bit lucky? I mean, his GB and HR rates never seemed to jibe before this year; and, now that they do, his ERA is far superior to his FIP.

I see the Angels as a decent but unspectacular team next season, unless they make some major acquisition like CC or Adrian Gonzalez.

by CapgrasDelusion on Oct 11, 2008 2:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Lackey's career ERA and FIP are basically identical...

so it appears that whatever luck he has or hasn’t had has basically canceled out over his career. (Did I use enough versions of the word “has” in that sentence?)

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 11, 2008 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

let's hope!

I just hope Tex doesn’t resign, because he does add legitimacy to their line-up…

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Oct 11, 2008 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well argued.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 11, 2008 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In all seriousness:

Is there a way to post this on Halo Nation?

We should welcome some outsiders input, because it would seem somebody on their website would love to rebuttle and then PT could let them have it representing ANers!

"What do we do with Crosby? Well, in my neighborhood, trash goes out on Mondays." ~ Nico

by MMunoz33 on Oct 18, 2008 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

PT would get banned in under 24 hours

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 18, 2008 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

24 hours of fun!

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 18, 2008 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who's betting they keep K-Rod.

I think they do.

Mets need 3 relievers, not one K-Rod.

Now with 100% more Canuck.

by Blicks on Oct 11, 2008 5:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

One can only hope

K-Rod = not really all that good, but going to be paid like a super star.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 12, 2008 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

timing of that signing will affect the Huston trade

the inevitable Huston trade will most likely occur after K-rod signs, as a way of offering up a closer at low-cost, for some juicier prospects.

by rollierollieOxenfree on Oct 12, 2008 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you need to factor in either

Sabathia or Teixeira. The Angels will land one or the other.

Let’s say they land Sabs, Kenny Williams might be interested in Chone Figgins to add speed and bat lead-off. I could see a Figgins/Swisher centered deal (with Swisher moving to 1B for the Angels) that opens up 3B for Brandon Wood. I mean, he’s got to get some at bats in 2009, right?

Or they stick Swisher in LF (bye-bye Anderson) and sign someone to play 1B. Giambi, maybe? They’ve probably got a few options.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 11, 2008 5:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

No no no

That would be terribly stupid for the Angels. They need to keep Chone. Offensively, he adds…uh… a good dynamic to the top of the lineup. They should trade Brandon Wood for Garret Atkins. Then they should sign Mike Hampton and Mark Prior (because if they sign both they’re bound to have one healthy starter). Then they should re-sign KRod AND Fuentes with all their remaining money.

Oh, and Vlad retires.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Oct 11, 2008 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

eh, i don't think that Slegna is going to trade Chone after the amount of wins they had this season

I doubt Moreno is going to care whether the record was flukey or not. I can definitely see them resigning Tex, which I’d say is more likely than signing Sabathia since they still have a decent rotation. I sure as hell hope they don’t sign Giambi, because I want him on the A’s.

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Oct 11, 2008 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I fully expect them to up their win projection in the offseason, but I'm not doing the work for them...

What I’m trying to do is get a sense of the division as it stands, so that I can figure out what I think the best course for the A’s this offseason is.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 11, 2008 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with up to the point where you talk about how things currently stand

I’m all for you running the numbers on the Rangers, Mariners and A’s based on how things stand. But you’ve already shown a willingness to at least consider which current Angels may or may not be back in 2009 (Example: You kept Anderson but Tex is nowhere to be found) and your plan is to try and determine which moves the A’s should make in the offseason. Those changes aren’t going to be made in a vacuum.

You need to, in some way, anticipate how many more wins the opposition can buy through FA and/or trades because THAT is the true level you then aim for. You just said the Angels project to be am 83-79 team next year. You say that the A’s need to project to at least a 77 win team based on that projection. The A’s won 75 games in 2008, their Pythagorean had them winning 76. This is an incredibly young team, it is not a stretch to think that the simple maturation of the current roster would be enough to push the team that extra little bit into contention status. Congragulations PT, you’ve just proven that as things stand the A’s can stand pat!

Which we both know isn’t true.

If you don’t anticipate what kind of improvements the Angels and the rest of the AL West are going to make then you’re just wasting your time.

Well, you probably don’t have to worry about the Mariners too much I suppose.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 12, 2008 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, what I CAN do is recalculate their payroll

As it stands, they’re shedding about $14 million in salary. Assuming natural inflation, they’ll have enough money to pursue one big ticket item on the FA market. They could opt to decline Anderson’s option, in which case they’d have $30 million or so (again assuming a willingness to up the team payroll to $125 million or so) and could get two above average players, or an elite player and a hole-filling average guy.

So: right now, my prediction is that they will pick up 5 or 6 wins on the FA market, putting their projection in the high 80s and the A’s “contention target” in the low 80s. But as we know, it’s very easy for teams to blow money on free agents that really don’t help much at all.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about this

The more I think about it, the more a Figgins/Swisher centered swap makes sense for both teams. (The Angels would have to add something else to make the years work but that’s besides the point.)

So recalculate with Brandon Wood at 3B, Swisher at 1B and Sabs in the rotation. I think there’s a good chance that that’s the quality of Angels team the A’s will face in 2009.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 12, 2008 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's sounds entirely plausible

worth an ugh! to see Swish and CC in Slegna uniforms, but plausible

by OaklandSi on Oct 12, 2008 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really don't think the Angels are going to trade for Swisher

Like, REALLY don’t. He’s the complete antithesis of everything their “offensive philosophy” stands for. Regardless…

Swapping Swisher and Wood in for Morales and Figgins does little to help the Angels. Wood’s projection is horrific— ZiPS has him at a .676 OPS, which is basically Jack Hannahan without the defense. Maybe adds a win or two.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Swish would be their 1st baseman

Even Scioscia relaxes the small-ball requirements when it comes to his 1B. BTW, meant to say this above but Figgins/Swisher is cost neutral in 2009.

I’m not a fan of Brandon Wood, but even I think he can outhit Bobby Crosby. But, sticking with the projected numbers, let’s give the Angels +2 wins thanks to my infield fix plus another +6 wins for Sabs.

That projects to a 91 win team. That should be the measuring stick for the 2009 A’s.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 12, 2008 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

a 91 win Angels team sounds entirely plausible/realistic.

Which means that the A’s are probably going to be just out of reach of a division title next year.

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Oct 12, 2008 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you not really like Wood in the long run?

I could be wrong, but weren’t you pretty high on him a while back? Just wondering where you stand.

by thejd44 on Oct 12, 2008 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No... I'm pretty bearish on Wood, actually

The insanely low ZiPS projection surprised even me, but he’s the kind of guy who can easily become a really, really terrible hitter, because he strikes out a ton and doesn’t walk very much. He’s very Dallas McPherson-esque.

I do not want the A’s to trade for him, at least not directly with the Angels. If the teams were to somehow come together on a trade, the guy I want back is Sean Rodriguez.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rodriguez's ZiPS aren't much better than Wood's

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 12, 2008 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Escobar.

Paul forgot about Escobar. Even if he does not perform at his 2007 level, he’s still much better than most other teams 4th or 5th starters. Let’s pretend they lend Sabathia.

Lackey, C.C., Santana, Escobar, Weaver/Saunders (with the option to trade one of the latter two pitchers). That is far and away the best rotation in the division, and arguably top three in the A.L. Again, 83 wins? You serious man?

by Pucking Insane on Oct 11, 2008 7:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He did not forget about him

He believes his arm problems will keep him from being a productive pitcher. You can argue that point, but the reason for omitting him is also arguable.

by thejd44 on Oct 12, 2008 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again, I did read the post.

Escobar is not mentioned at all in the original post. Paul mentioned him in a reply to Nico.

Whether Escobar remains healthy is something that we will not know until next season. It may be too optimistic to expect 30 starts, but at the same time dismissing him altogether seems a tad hasty.

by Pucking Insane on Oct 12, 2008 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If they sign CC they're a...

… wait for it …

different team.

At that point no one here (including PT as he’s even said above) thinks they’re an 83 win team. More like 90.

Please at least read the thread before you make these sorts of arguments.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 12, 2008 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I did read the post.

It was well written, but I disagree with most of it. No where does Paul mention how many games he thinks the Angels will win. The only indicator he gave was saying that they project to win 83 games. Perhaps, you need to re-read the post.

by Pucking Insane on Oct 12, 2008 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thread != Post

Quoting PT above

I’d credit CC as a +30 at least, so, yeah, that’s 7 wins or so right there

Feel free to search for it if you don’t believe me. But that isn’t really the point. The point is you’re saying “PT, you idiot, if the Angels get CC they’ll be way better than your projection.” Of course, getting CC would improve the Angels but they don’t have him yet.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 13, 2008 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

See, I thought he was saying

“PT, you ignorant slut…”

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 13, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Speedball?"

Sure….one more, it couldn’t possibly hurt.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Oct 20, 2008 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd expect the Angels to win around 90 next season.

Their talent was more than 84 wins despite the Pythagenport.

If they do the right things, like bringing in Teixeira, Dunn, or at least Giambi, they’ll be at least OK at 1B/DH. They could also sign Burrell and not worry that he’ll suck in three years.
Rodriguez and Wood should make their IF backups or even 3B better than replacement level. If I were they, I’d try and trade for Chavez.

Re-signing Garland or another innings eater won’t be that hard.

[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 11, 2008 10:53 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That's about what I expect

As a general rule, you shouldn’t count on winning a division with fewer than 90 wins anyway.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 11, 2008 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless

You’re in the NL West.

by SBravo53 on Oct 12, 2008 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My guess is that the Angels are a 87-93 win team

I think it’s clear they will make a step backward next year regardless, but I think they are going to be more than merely a .500-ish team. However, we can compete next year, and Beane should do his best to have everyone of his players trust that (with young guys, the trust will go a long way).
That said, I think it would be quite helpful if PT did this for the projected A’s lineup, if time permits….

by stranahanahan on Oct 11, 2008 11:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

How about the A's?

This projects an 83-79 record on paper for the Angels. A weaker bullpen in 2009 could align their run differential and record more closely than in 2008. Is PaulThomas going to do the same plus/minus runs by position for the A’s for 2009, with some leeway based on potential aquisitions, for example Giambi vs. Barton?

by SA on Oct 12, 2008 7:19 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes he is

But first he’s trying to figure out where the bar is set.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 12, 2008 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Angels are not a great team by any means

but unfortunately I think they will win more games in 2009 than any other AL west team, I don’t believe that Texas will get enough pitching to win the division, nor do I think the A’s will be ready to win it in 2009. As for the Mariners, the necessary housecleaning and rebuilding their organization needs to do means they’re probably looking at several years (certainly longer than the A’s).

by OaklandSi on Oct 12, 2008 7:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not so sure Texas is far from being over .500

They could sign Lowe as a FA, Boston’s been asking about Salty and the Rangers have a surplus of catching… trade Salty for Masterson and put him in the rotation. That gives ’em Lowe, Millwood, Padilla, Masterson plus Harrison and Hurley fighting it out for the 5th spot. Find some cheap help for the bullpen and shazaam, a pitching staff in the Texas desert.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 12, 2008 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The absolute best thing that could happen to the rest of the AL West

Is that Vlad is good and healthy enough in 2009 to sucker the Angels into another 4-year deal. If Vlad is gone after 2009, the Angels just go out and replace him with a younger, better player. We’re all assuming that Vlad gone = worse team, but the Angels have the money to find that production. So I’m hoping Vlad is good enough in 2009 to convince the Angels they should dedicate another $60-70 million to him. They’re going to have some All-Star type players anyway, so I want their best hitter to be an aging DH.

by thejd44 on Oct 12, 2008 8:25 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

We'll learn a lot about the Angels this offseason

If they pay out big money to K-Rod and Anderson along with keeping Figgins at 3B, it will be a very hopeful sign for the A’s moving forward.

by MrIncognito on Oct 12, 2008 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

aging DH

like Thomas, Piazza, or Giambi?

by rollierollieOxenfree on Oct 12, 2008 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha

Except you missed like 6 different points in my post.

Signing a guy like Thomas to a cheap, one-year deal is fine. And when he is one of the best hitters in the league that year, that’s extra fine.Piazza wasn’t the best hitter on any team at that point. And I think signing Giambi would be really stupid.

The point is that them signing a guy with declining skills to a big money long-term deal would be bad for them.

by thejd44 on Oct 12, 2008 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Divisional adjustment

Probably some of the discrepancy between the projection and the actual result (both this year and most likely the next) results not just from luck, but also from playing in a weak division, as much discussed after the Angel’s quick exit from the postseason. So the Angels probably will win more than 83 games next year, just as they exceeded their projection this year. But for Paul’s purpose (what the A’s should do in the offseason) the adjustment is not as pressing because the A’s play in the same division (there would be only a minor adjustment in that the A’s don’t get to play themselves). I also wonder what are the standard errors in the projection, and how much of the standard error we would attribute to luck and what we would attribute to real non-luck factors missing in the modeling equation.

by Deep Puddle on Oct 12, 2008 4:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Their W2 (before schedule strength adjustments) and W3 (after those adjustments) were both 84.

They didn’t actually play a weaker schedule than average, partly because the AL is stronger than the NL. Eyeballing it, it looks like AL teams had 1-2 wins difference between W2 and W3. So at most we’d expect the Angels to project at 85-86 wins even with a weak schedule.

[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 12, 2008 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The AL West was weak enough that their schedule was average overall

By contrast, the AL East teams got 2-4 W3 wins over their W2 level.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 12, 2008 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So the point is that strength of schedule wasn't a big part of the Pythagenport outperformance

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 12, 2008 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd say your estimates are about right ...

but I’d assume they’ll do something to add to it …

I’d guess they’ll end up having 86-88 win talent …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Oct 13, 2008 8:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

77 win projection

If Angels is only projected to win 83 games, given the unbalanced schedule, they are going to lose a few games more to the Rangers than this year, wouldn’t that make the competition a little tougher for the A’s? I’m a little skeptical that a team with projected win total < 50% can win the division. But then again you never know (see NL West).

I like this analysis, and can’t wait to see what you project for the Rangers. And yes, I’m already counting out the Mariners.

by asfansince1989 on Oct 14, 2008 8:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh, the Mariners have utterly no chance

I almost decided not to bother, but I’ll do one for the sheer schadenfreude of it.

The Rangers are, however, next on the list.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 14, 2008 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just the division?

Or the entire AL? Didn’t know if you were looking at wild-card possibilities, too.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 14, 2008 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hah...

No way I have that kind of time… and in any event, the number of games you need to win the WC is pretty predictable (about 93 in the AL, about 89 in the NL).

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 15, 2008 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So I should have read your second sentence?
That question— to keep selling, to start buying, etc— is profoundly affected by what the other teams in the division figure to do.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 15, 2008 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you didn't label the players or team, I very well could have thought,

you were talking about the Mariners, I think you need to give a little more credit where credit is due, they got a hell of a ball club down there and I know that no matter how big of an A’s fan I am.

by mattman on Oct 15, 2008 2:22 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If you have a specific critique, say so

Believe me, the Mariners list will look way, way worse than this.

I don’t see why “credit is due.” They were a minimally above average team this season which enjoyed a historically lucky season. They had some injury issues but are also losing their best player to free agency.

I’m not going to artificially inflate my projections just to account for some Majik Anjell Effekt.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 15, 2008 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

For the last time, IT WASN'T LUCK

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 15, 2008 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yo no comprendo

What is that image from?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 15, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Angels in the Outfield

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Oct 15, 2008 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it was a guy named 'AL'

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Oct 15, 2008 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This just in!

According to MLB Trade Rumors (mlbtraderumors.com), the Angels are going to have at least 30 million to spend, and possibly more. For 30 million, the Angels are going to have a lot of options. I see the Angels getting Texeira because Morales sucks and the Angels have already had an ‘in’ with Tex by virtue of trading for him and having him in Anaheim for a while. Plus, he’s familiar with the AL West. If they pick up Tex, that pretty much leaves room for one smaller signing (5th starter?).

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Oct 15, 2008 3:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't see Teixeira taking anything other than the highest offer, "in" or no "in"

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 15, 2008 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

true but i could still see the Angel's giving him the highest offer

but if he has two equivalent offers, I’d feel like he might pick the Angels over the other team.

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Oct 16, 2008 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah. Whoever wants him the most will bid the most.

I still don’t see why the Yankees wouldn’t bid the most on Teixeira, Sabathia, Lowe, and Dunn. They’ve got a new stadium and $75M coming off the books.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 16, 2008 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't imagine the Yankees want Dunn

which, of course, is part of the reason I still think we should sign him.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 20, 2008 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Paul

I really dig 90% of the stuff you write on this board, but this one really is a head scratcher. You make a lot of assertions that to me seem plain wrong. I may just be a seeing a different side of the coin, but I don’t see this team going from 100 wins to 83 (and before you go into it, I know they were lucky and should not have won 100, but that would still be a large fall if it had only been 93). However, you did have mostly solid arguments so, while I disagree it was a good read.

by jasonlbe on Oct 15, 2008 5:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Based on their run differential, they should have only won 88 games ...

Vlad’s health is an issue and he seems to be aging faster than normal and Tex isn’t as good as he performed after the trade. They got really, really lucky. It happens. Think about the ChiSox, that went from a 90 win team in 2006 to a 72 win team in 2007 … or the A’s team that went from 93 to 76 over that same span.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Oct 15, 2008 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and that was with half a season of Tex...PT is projecting with Morales as the 1b

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Oct 15, 2008 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I missed that part ...

if you assume the bring back Tex, 83 wins turns into about 89, probably … which seems pretty right on, given some expected regression but the benefit of a full season of Tex …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Oct 15, 2008 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're saying Teixeira's worth $30M next year?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 15, 2008 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He might be ...

not running any numbers or anything …

But on a one year contract, it wouldn’t surprise me at all that fair market value would be in the neighborhood of $30m. He’s going for an 8+ year contract, though, so that will cut into the per year value dramatically.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Oct 15, 2008 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd expect he'll probably stay put ...

but the Orioles will likely be players, the Yanks could use a 1b and always have money to burn … I’m sure a couple of other teams will also get involved …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Oct 15, 2008 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mets and Yankees both need 1B, both in new stadia

No Delgado isn’t the answer for the next five years.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 16, 2008 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to add more work to PT's blog

but why don’t we ever take baserunning into account? I know that it adds a lot more work and the amount of wins a player costs his team is probably minimal (1-2 at most), but not taking it into account may underrate/overrate players who aren’t adept at hitting, but are adept at gaining extra bases, stealing at a high percentage, etc. Maybe PT took that into account when doing his offensive +/-, I don’t know, but it seems fair that if player A isn’t much of a bopper, but steals 49 out of 50 bases, he had probably helped his team offensively, just not with the bat. Anyway, this was a great article and not that PT would need to do that as well as it’s time consuming for minimal impact, but I’m wondering if that would influence player’s rating, such as Chone etc.

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Oct 16, 2008 5:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

by blog I meant FanPost

'That's something we do...thirteen hits and not score'-Terrence Long

by DyeLongJustice on Oct 16, 2008 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chone had a poor SB% ... he hurt the team more than he helped ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Oct 16, 2008 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I took it into account

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 16, 2008 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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