Who can we get for futures SS and 3B
by Eastbayjim on Jan 31, 2008 11:05 AM PST
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PrintThis is my first attempt at a diary so, here goes.
With all of the talk about how bad or not good, Crosby is and how alot of us aren't sure if Chavez will fully recover I thought about finding out where we can upgrade these two positions for the future.
Who can we trade and what can we get.
After our other trades I realized that we still need to upgrade our minor leagues with good SS and 3B prospects.
One thought I had was the possibility of trading Street and a minor leaguer or two to get a new SS and 3B for our future.
So, how do we get new SS and 3B prospects? (0 / 0)
I found on ESPN insider (sorry don't have the link) where Keith Law lists the top 5 prospects by team. Here are the teams that have one or more shortstops or 3B in the list. Now, who can we trade (Street?) for these?
Boston
Jed Lowrie, ss
Chicago Cubs
Josh Vitters, 3b
Cleveland
Wes Hodges, 3b
Colorado
Ian Stewart, 3b
Chris Nelson, ss
Hector Gomez, ss
Detroit
Cale Iorg, ss
Danny Worth, ss
Florida
Matt Dominguez, 3b
Kansas City
Mike Moustakas, ss
Los Angeles Angels
Brandon Wood, 3b
Los Angeles Dodgers
Andy LaRoche, 3b
Chin-Lung Hu, ss
Milwaukee
Alcides Escobar, ss
Pittsburgh
Neil Walker, 3b
San Diego
Chase Headley, 3
Seattle
Carlos Triunfel, ss
Tampa Bay
Evan Longoria, 3b
Texas
Elvis Andrus, ss
Toronto
Kevin Ahrens, 3b
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The Rays system is ridiculous
It would not surprise me at all if Brignac was not ranked in the top 5.
Committed To Crosby
I dunno- seems like we are committed to Crosby, at least for 2008. If he breaks another bone early in the season and we are forced to go with Donnie Murphy, then all bets are off the table. Of course, his trade value would be crap, so we would probably end up giving away more than we should to find another shortstop. Personally, I have hope that Crosby will have a healthy and prosperous season- that he will finally hit 30 homeruns and his average will soar to .310. Maybe....just maybe.
seems pretty likely
if he's playing in a T-ball league.
by guy incognito on Jan 31, 2008 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
all they have to do
is set the t-ball low and away and he would still have a bad season!
Lollerskates
The best option
clearly seems to be some kind of Mark Ellis deal with Colorado. Tulowitzki blocks both of their SS prospects with his shiny new 6-year contract. Once they realize that Jayson Nix can't hit a lick, perhaps they'll be willing to deal for Ellis.
Rockies: Ian Stewart
Can he play 2B?
Matt Holliday wants Adkins to stay w/ the team, and he's leveraging a long-term deal with that thought. If I were Dan O'Dowd, I would trade Todd Helton, move Adkins to 1b, and start Ian Stewart at 3B. Trade for Mark Ellis. Add another 4 years to the Holliday contract (4 Years/80M).
Helton Contract:
- 16.6M
- 16.6M
- 16.6M
- 19.1M
- Team option 23M or 4.6M buyout
That is straight up ugly... but the Yankees could handle the contract.
by Colorado Fan on Jan 31, 2008 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Sweet Jesus, Mary and Joseph
That is a horrific contract. Helton was good last year... and yet he wasn't even close to THAT good. And he's clearly in decline.
Stewart can play 2B, but I think he's thought of as a better 3Bman. From what I've read, Nix is the favorite to get the job.
hate to nitpick
but it's atkins.
and that helton contract is one of those "it was a good idea at the time" deals. or maybe not.
Eric Chavez ...
Ian Stewart is ready. Eric Chavez has a shoulder that makes the throw from third a problem. Seems perfect to me.
ehhh
that seems unlikely, but who knows...scott hatteberg was a pickin' machine
I don't think Chavez has had throwing problems
It's hitting that's been an issue for him.
They use different parts of the shoulder. Try throwing right-handed and then swinging left-handed. The throw uses the front side, the swing uses the back side.
haven't seen many games the last couple yrs?
I agree that it probably ain't (directly) the shoulder that's been doing it, but Chavvy's had some throwing issues.
Not enough to cost him the gold glove...
Then again, not actually playing a position wasn't enough to cost Palmeiro the gold glove, so perhaps that's not the best comparison.
I didn't watch a lot of games before last season, because I didn't have cable (and am out of range of Action 36, not that that's difficult), but last year I didn't feel like throwing was a huge issue, certainly not by comparison to, say, stretching for grounders.
Do you listen to the game on the Radio?
Or just follow on the internet? just wondering?
Prior to last year?
I read the box score online.
I had no money... and I hate listening to sports on the radio.
Shrug
Baseball's better than most other sports, but it's still frustrating to not have a visual.
I'm kind of neurotic about sports. Generally if I can't actually watch a game I'd rather not even see scores or highlights until after it's over.
You don't remember the whole thing ...
about him developing a method of bouncing the ball to the first baseman in a consistent manner because he couldn't make the throw on the fly?
Can't say as I do
Do you remember when that was talked about?
2 years ago? Maybe 3?
If it was 3, I was totally out of the loop
(and the country) in 2004.
That's true
but it hasn't hurt him at all.
He does...
Has had them for a long time with the shoulder, but played through them and for a while was OK. He admitted it himself in an interview a year or two ago.
It can be theorized that his shoulder problem is what drove all the other problems with forearms and what not that messed up his swing. It was one of those compensating for one thing causes another problem and compensating for that causes another problem. In hindsight he probably should have had the surgery a few years ago, but at the time I am sure the thought was it was not that bad because he was still playing well at the time.
Things to consider ...
certain guys on that list, Evan Longoria, for example, are definitely not going to happen. Longoria is one of the top half dozen or so prospects in the game -- we couldn't get him for Street plus whoever the Rays think is our best prospect.
Also, on the opposite end ... not all Top 5 prospects are created equal ... or even remotely comparable. Being top 5 for Detroit means that unless you're Rick Porcello, you're not in the top 100 overall.
Being in the top 5 for the Rays means you're better than about half the teams in the game's top prospect.
Here are the 3Bs and SSs in BP's newly minted top 100:
- Evan Longoria, 3b, Rays
- Andy LaRoche, 3b, Dodgers
- Chase Headley, 3b, Padres
- Angel Villalona, 3b, Giants
- Brandon Wood, 3b/ss, Angels
- Josh Vitters, 3b, Cubs
- Chris Davis, 3b, Rangers
- Wes Hodges, 3b, Indians
- Neil Walker, 3b, Pirates
- Mike Moustakas, ss, Royals
- Reid Brignac, ss, Rays
- Chin-Lung Hu, ss, Dodgers
- Carlos Triunfel, ss, Mariners
- Jed Lowrie, ss, Red Sox
- Elvis Andrus, ss, Rangers
- Brent Lillibridge, ss, Braves
- Chris Nelson, ss, Rockies
Personally, I think the Dodgers and Rockies.
Both have both a SS and 3b to offer.
Both are planning on being contenders.
None of the prospects are good enough to be considered untouchable.
All are blocked by solid or better major leaguers.
All are fairly close to being ML ready (unfortunately, in both cases the development is the reverse of what we'd want, with the 3b completely ready, while the SS needs a bit more seasoning, likely ready for 2009)
The Rockies are candidates for an immediate deal -- with Ellis and/or Street being prime candidates for bait.
The Dodgers are more likely a midseason partner -- once Schmidt, Loaiza, Penny, et al have broken down, they'll be drooling over the horse that Joe Blanton ate ... I mean is ...
I don't see it with the Dodgers
Furcal's contract is up after this year. Garciaparra's contract is up after this year, AND he sucks pond water now.
Next offseason, if they re-sign Furcal and LaRoche had an unexceptional season, a deal might be possible.
Lowe and Loaiza are FAs too and Penny only
has a year left (club option).
While Kershaw, Billingley, Kuroda is a solid top of the rotation, they could definitely use a good, young horse to help round it out.
Resigning Furcal will almost certainly be a better investment than any starting pitching available on the market.
If they want to do Chavez + Blanton for LaRoche, Hu, Elbert (who has not yet been tested in AAA and whose health issues prevent the Dodgers from counting on him to step into the 2009 rotation), I think that would work.
Although Chavez represents a bump in salary for 2008, going forward the money should work well, as Lowe, Loazia and Nomar will be leaving a ton of salary behind, easily covering Chavez, a raise for Furcal and Blanton's arbi demands.
As of now,
assuming that Santana is signed, the following pitchers will be FAs, or could be FAs:
C.C. Sabathia CLE
Ben Sheets MIL
Derek Lowe LAD
Pedro Martinez NYM
A.J. Burnett TOR (may opt out)
Oliver Perez NYM
I left out guys like Lackey and Smoltz, since it's unlikely their options won't be picked up.
Tha'ts a pretty good selection.
That is ...
fair point ...
pedro
will probably retire though...he talked about this being his last contract. but who knows really
Meh
I only like the top 2 guys. Pedro's done, Lowe will not be worth whatever contract he signs, AJ is a little healthier than Harden, yet Perez is slightly intriguing. That's not a great selection by any stretch of the imagination. Blanton > than everyone cept CC and Ben, although you could make the case he's better than Sheets based on health and such.
by Helloooo 1st on Jan 31, 2008 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
Pedro is debatable
When healthy, even ignoring his prime years and just looking at the last several years, he has been better than anyone on that list save Sabathia and Sheets.
Sheets has been no healthier than Pedro.
People said Lowe was not worth the money when he signed his last contract. In fact, Lowe has probably been one of the best FA pitcher signings of the past several years, heavily vindicating DePo.
Yes, he's older. He is also consistently good and healthy. ERA+ of 114, 124, 118, about 200IP last 3 years.
Burnett is not Harden. Injury prone though Burnett has been, these are his IP totals last 3 years: 209, 135, 165.
Harden: 128, 46, 25.
It's not a matter of Cupcakes relative to the FA pitchers. It's a matter of Cupcakes + Furcal + FA 3b relative to the FA pitchers + HU + Laroche + Elbert.
Cupcakes is young and cheap? Well, so are the guys, like Hu, LaRoche, Elbert, who will be required to acquire him
I think
that that SS named DeJesus (that Beane wanted in July) is more realistic than Hu. I think the Dodgers will want to keep Hu. But Chavez and Blanton for LaRoche, DeJesus, and something else could definitely work, as long as Chavez shows he's somewhat healthy in Spring Training.
A proven, young closer (street) + a prospect
couldn't get Longoria? Is he that good? I haven't heard much about him (although that's not saying much)
It'd depend on the prospect ... but no ...
they couldn't.
Longoria is rated as Sickel's #2 hitting prospect and Goldstein's #3 overall prospect (#2 among hitter).
He's ready to start 2008 and should be one of the top five 3Bs in the league by 2009, at the latest.
At this point he's as close to a can't miss prospect as you get.
Yep
I would choose Longoria over any prospect in baseball. I think he will have the career that everyone hoped Chavez would have, and at the end of his career will be a legitimate Hall of Fame candidate. Of course, all of that hope is predicated upon him avoiding injuries, something Chavez was unable to do.
by BlameChannel53 on Jan 31, 2008 5:37 PM PST up reply actions
Offensively, sure ...
he'll never be the defensive player Chavez has been (still is?).
I can't imagine why you'd want him over Bruce, though ...
position
infield (and i use infield instead of 3b because i've seen him listed at ss...can't remember where) vs. corner of
Evan Longoria is to Third Basemen
what Jay Bruce is to Center Fielders.
They're both going to start their careers their, but if they reach free agency before moving to 1b/RF/LF it'll be a surprise.
It's not much of an advantage for Longoria.
I disagree
Longoria will be a very good defensive 3B.
by BlameChannel53 on Jan 31, 2008 6:27 PM PST up reply actions
I've never seen him play, but ...
Goldstein:
"He's an average runner that some feel could lose his speed quickly and force a move to left field or first base."
That's just nitpicky stuff
Even Goldstein acknowledges this in the comment you quoted, and he also said,"defensively, he shows good instincts and a plus arm" in that same comment. Elite prospects always have nitpicky things said about them, because scouts don't really know what other minor negatives to come up with. Justin Upton was criticized for looking bored, for example. Here is the tell for nitpickiness that I have learned from talking to scouts; scouts will always say somebody else said the negative thing when they really don't believe it themselves. The operative phrase in Goldstein's quote is "some feel," which tells me that Goldstein doesn't really believe what he wrote.
Longoria will stay at 3B unless he physically outgrows the position; he is powerfully built and someday could simply be too big for third base. If that happens, however, he is only going to get that much stronger, and will be an even bigger monster offensively. I am more confident that Longoria will be a superstar than any prospect in baseball, and that is why I rank him above Bruce.
by BlameChannel53 on Jan 31, 2008 8:24 PM PST up reply actions
How big do you have to be to outgrow 3B?
Godzilla? Giant Baby? Paul Bunyan?
by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2008 9:11 AM PST up reply actions
Who knows
But once Tony Parker gets her pregnant she'll definitely be too big to play third.
Oh... Evan. Never mind.
by thejd44 on Feb 3, 2008 12:59 AM PST up reply actions
ummm
At the moment he's a tweener ...
he's really a right fielder but can play a passable center. Down the road he's a right fielder.
aight
Top 5 3b by 2009?
That seems optimistic: ARod, Chipper, Wright, ARam, Zimmerman, Cabrera.
Chipper
Downside?
Perhaps.
Chipper Jones OPS+ last 3 years, 151, 154, 156. Career: 143.
Batting Runs above average last 3 years, 33, 40, 56.
Batting Runs, which does not include SBs, 29.7, 35, 53.7.
For comparison, David Wright OPS+ last 3 years, 139, 133, 150.
Wright, BRAA last 3 years, 40, 36, 58.
Wright, Batting Runs, 34.6, 30.6, 49.7.
Chipper is probably one of the most underrated players of his generation. A player who hits for average, walks a lot, more walks than Ks over his career, and slugs while playing acceptable D at a fairly important position defensively.
Cabrera isn't likely to be a 3b ...
much longer and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was outplaying Chipper, ARam and Zimmerman ... but maybe I should have said top 6 ... my bad.
ixnay Street to Colorado
The Rockies like their bullpen so much they're currently shopping Fuentes, who closed for them last year.
With the Mets sitting sated with Santana, the Dodgers are the team who has shown the most interest in Blanton. But as you pointed out, they've got a ton of depth before they need to go shopping. And if Kershaw breaks out in the 1st half of 2008, they'll call him up before making a trade.
I can't help but notice that after all the wheeling and dealing Beane has done we're still looking at the same organizational weaknesses at SS and 3B as we were before the first trade was made. In fact, unless the A's are right and virtually every other (published) scouting report is incorrect, the A's haven't upgraded their options in CF either.
You're overstating your case
A lot of people think Carlos Gonzalez will be a fine defensive CF-- probably not a standout, but not an eyesore, either.
No no no
You are the first person I've seen refer to Gonzalez as a "fine defensive CF" and that's not going to fly with me. I quoted just about every published (and reputable) source on this matter and they all sum up to average at best until he loses a step and then he moves to RF.
We could have had that with Swisher and that wasn't good enough for people.
I think he was using fine as "acceptable" ...
eg -- How are you? I'm fine.
not
That is a fine bottle of wine.
or
My, she is fine.
One day I will realize
that tone of voice is indecipherable over the internet.
The most recent thing I saw about him was "takes good routes to balls, great arm, played a lot of RF because the D-Backs had so many CF candidates." (I can't remember exactly where-- Prospectus, maybe?) It's not exactly effusive praise, but it's not a left-handed compliment either. Based on this I feel like he has a ceiling of "above average but not Gold Glove." Others' opinions may vary.
Obviously I don't know what you read
So here's what I've read:
From BP:
It's of some importance to note that when Gonzalez moved up to Triple-A this year, Arizona moved him to center, if anything, to showcase him there, as there was no room in Arizona's big league outfielder for him. He also was moved to center recently for Zulia in the Venezuelan Winter League, and according to scouts, he's a good enough outfielder to be an average center fielder for the first few years of his career.
From BA:
Strengths
A prototype right fielder, he has an above-average arm and enough speed to play in center field if need be—and in fact he played there quite a bit when Upton was with Mobile. Gonzalez is becoming more comfortable in right field as he gets more time there, learning better routes and whether to uncork a rocket or just hit the cutoff man.
Weaknesses
He's still an erratic defender, leading the high Class A California and Double-A Southern league in outfield miscues the last two years with 12 each time.
I'd link BA but it's subscriber only.
So wherever you read what you read, it was wrong. Completely. Arizona played Gonzalez in RF because that's where they saw him fitting, they had no problem bumping him to CF when Upton came up. Gonzalez has the tools to play CF for now but no one says projects more then average defense.
Not above average.
Not good.
Average.
I guess it's just a case of reading scouting
reports with rose-colored glasses.
That being said, I will observe that the A's have 5 defensively decent younger outfielders in Buck, Denorfia, Sweeney, Cunningham and Gonzalez, and just on a probabilistic basis, it seems like a decent bet that one of them will turn out to be an above-average defender at the position-- or hit well enough to make up for it.
Cunningham seems the best bet
to turn out as your above average defender.
As for hitting well enough to compensate...
<cough>Swisher<cough>
andeux knows who I want off that list
I don't
Who?
Cale Iorg!
Soon of Garth Iorg -- who was sort of the not-clutch Marco Scutaro of the Blue Jays in the '80s, and half of the best namephreak platoon in history (Iorg-Mulliniks ... even better than Smoot-Hawley) -- and one of my favorite players when I was a kid.
I have no idea what Iorg, Jr.'s minor-league stats are. And I don't care.
I'm holding out for Broccoli Iorg, personally
And the namephreak platoon is even better than just Iorg-Mulliniks, since you could also call them Garth and Rance.
Does Cale go well with Cupcakes?
Root, root, root for Rutabaga Iorg!
Alternate nickname for any of them: Iorg of the Ungle.
Spooneybarger!
'scuse meh.
Gezundheit
Vitters and Moustakas
were just drafted by the Cubs and Royals.
The Mariners don't need Street.
Andrus was just acquired by the Rangers in the Teixeira trade.
Walker is one of the Pirates few real position prospects, former catcher.
Headley might be blocked. Or the Pads might need to move Kouzmanoff to make way for him.
Kouzmanoff is a butcher at third
I don't think anybody sees him as a long-term answer at the position.
Another guy missing from the above list is Brent Lillibridge (BTW, if anyone else reads Lookout Landing, do not mention him there unless you want a thread-full of inside jokes...). I think the realistic options shake out like so:
SS
Lillibridge
Lowrie
Nelson
Gomez
Hu
Escobar
Brignac?
3B
Hodges
Stewart
LaRoche?
Looks like 3B is a hole the A's will have to draft their way out of. Although it would be unbelievably ironic if the team traded Chavez so that it could sign Miguel Tejada after 2009.
Regarding Kouzmanoff's glove
He had a reputation as a poor defender in the minors but most of the talk around here is that most people were pleasantly suprised by his ability in the field this year. He will probably be a gold glover but his reactions and arm were more than adequate for a startin third baseman.
Most of what I hear is that the Padres are looking at Headley possibly playing left field in AAA to begin the year to see if he can handle it out there. I wouldn't expect to see Kouz moved off of 3b anytime soon.
I don't see any of these guys as better bets
than a Chavez recovery. Other than Longoria, who's unrealistic, or LaRoche who's unrealistic unless he's traded for a suddenly healthy Chavez.
by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2008 9:14 AM PST up reply actions
walker
is a converted catcher who is learning the position
pirates
love him as well...he would be tough to get
Dodgers still owe us for Loaiza
They don't officially, but I thought we would get Lu or LaRoche in a deal where we would not have to give up a lot in return for one of those guys.
I guess it would have happened if we sent Blanton there this off-season as part of a bigger deal, but they signed Kuroda instead and the need no longer existed.
I know they took his contract off the A's hands and he sucked once he was in LA, but at the time it seemed like Oakland was short-changed.
At the very least, the A's should get Tony Abreu to offset the eventual departure of Ellis.
by athleticsBB4life on Jan 31, 2008 2:51 PM PST reply actions
A guy I like
who no one seems to mention much is Josh Rodriguez, in the Indians system. Check him out:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/playe...
I've heard good things about his defense. Could be an undervalued prospect to pursue, the type Beane seems to be enamored with lately (Carter, Anderson, Cunningham, Smith)
by Sigur Ros on Jan 31, 2008 2:57 PM PST reply actions
Seems quality
I'm not sure where Cleveland's needs lie, though. Left field? Oakland's kind of running low on outfielders right now.
If I've heard of them, I doubt we'll get 'em
Get me any of Longoria, LaRoche, Brignac, Wood, Triunfel, or Villalona and I would be stoked. (It would be pure fantasy but say the Bedard goes through and the O's get Pie for BRob; Street+ for Jones and Triunfel? Wow! In honor to our recent gambling diary I'd put that at about a 1.0E20/1 bet, but it sure is enticing).
I saw a bit about J Rodriguez on Minor League Ball and was intrigued that no one ever mentioned him. In fact, Sickles even called him a sleeper. I would love to see him don our uniform as well.
Long as we're talking about "not a 3B"
Villalona is emphatically not a 3B, unless you're willing to put up with Atkins-level defensive butchery.
In any event, it doesn't really matter. There's no way the A's will be getting any of those guys in my opinion. MAYBE if the Bedard deal falls through, they could get Triunfel as part of a Blanton package. Or maybe they could do a Chavez/LaRoche exchange if they gave LA enough in return, but if so that won't be happening anytime soon.
I just realized
that that comment about "Atkins-level defensive butchery" is an unintentional double entendre.
I am so awesome.
but what's his The Zone rating?
And will he be traded to South Beach?
But hitting is more important than fielding.
by methodrampage on Feb 1, 2008 7:49 AM PST up reply actions
question for Devo (+ bonus question for everyone)
Up there a ways you list a bunch of guys and say, "All are fairly close to being ML ready." What exactly do you mean by "fairly close"? 2008? 2009? 2010?
The reason I ask is you've got Carlos Triunfel on that list, and that sounds like a real stretch to me. Sure, Triunfel is freakin' awesome, but still ... he's seven-freakin'-teen years old.
Admittedly, Triunfel does play with a skill that seems beyond his years, so if you were to say he's the sort of guy who could make the bigs at 20, that's not unreasonable. But that still means 2010. Do you see him in the majors at 19? I don't.
Bonus question: I don't know much of the minors beyond the Oakland and Seattle systems, so I don't know what other wunderkinds are out there. So I'll put the question to the rest of you: If you had to guess who will be the first player born in the 1990s to crack the big leagues, who would you pick? Carlos Triunfel was born in February 1990. Is there anyone else out there likely to make it before him?
My sister was born in February 1990
She's a senior in high school.
Those guys haven't even become draft-eligible yet as high schoolers. I'd lay good odds that the first 1990s kid to appear in an MLB game will be someone not currently in an MLB system.
Coulda swore ...
I replied to this already.
I wasn't clear enough -- when I said "All are fairly close to being ML ready" I was referring to the four players on the Dodgers and Rockies that I was thinking were good targets.
By fairly close to ready, I mean by early 2009 at latest.
I can envision a scenario where Triunfel beats your timetable (starts hot in high A, gets a quick promotion, plays increasingly well in AA, earns a AAA spot in 2009 and by the end of the season is banging down the door ...
That's obviously a very rosy scenario -- but not out of the realm of possibilities.
Yeah, OK,
I can see that as a possibility, albeit not especially likely.
Mariners are a puzzle on this. Overall, I'd say they tend be slow to bring up prospects. On the other hand, when they have a super-prospect, they will go ahead and bring him up extremely early (eg, A-Rod, Felix).
Does Triunfel fit in that category? Probably not, but maybe.
Actually, under Bavasi
the Mariners have been pretty damn aggressive with pushing their prospects.
Last year, according to BA, "their top five affiliates were younger than average for their leagues".
Look at the ages and levels of Adam Jones, Asdrubal Cabrera, Triunfel, Brandon Morrow, Chris Tillman for examples.
For example Asdrubal. He got his first taste of AAA at age 19, OPS of 554 in the PCL in a very SSZ, after putting up a 743 OPS in the CAL at A+, relative to a league average of 809. Even the Mets would probably have only pushed him up to AA.
The next season, started at AAA in the PCL, OPS of 683 relative to a league average of 757.
Cleveland left him in AAA for the rest of the year after getting him and then moved him down to AA the next season.
Brandon Morrow went from college straight to MLB at age 22.
Hmm, I could be wrong
But what I was really thinking about was the move from Tacoma to Seattle, not how fast the guys go through the minor-league system.
It seems like guys sit in Tacoma for an awful long time. Maybe that's partly because they get to AAA sooner?
I don't know. I'm just going from my impression, not any analysis of actual numbers.
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