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Baseball Isn't Fair

Well, after last Wednesday’s spirited debate about Bobby Crosby, I thought I’d go ahead and pull up another Urban article to complete the A’s injury duo.

What's the latest on Rich Harden? The last I heard, he'd received a cortisone shot. Also, if the roster the A's have now remains intact through the spring, do you think he'll be one of the two pitchers to start against the Red Sox in the season-opening series in Japan? If so, how can he and the other guy -- I assume it's Joe Blanton -- be ready by March 25 if, as you reported last week, the A's aren't reporting for Spring Training any earlier than several other teams?
-- Vivian S., Scottsdale, Ariz.

Harden is in Phoenix, throwing with new bullpen coach Ron Romanick four times a week, and manager Bob Geren said the reports he's getting have been good. Geren also suggested very strongly -- without actually using the words -- that Harden and Blanton are, indeed, penciled in as the starting pitchers for the games against Boston in Japan. Penciled being the key word, obviously.

And while you're right about the A's not reporting any earlier than several teams, the first pitchers-and-catchers workout is set for Feb. 14, and that's actually a few days earlier than the they typically hold their first workout. Geren said he, pitching coach Curt Young and Romanick have already mapped out plans to have Harden and Blanton -- not necessarily in that order -- ready to go March 25-26 at the Tokyo Dome.

And for those of you who continue to ask me about how to get tickets for the games in Japan, thanks for your persistence. I still don't have any information other that what I gave you several weeks ago. The A's aren't handling the tickets for these games.

I touched on this in the great Crosby debate last week, but I think it bears repeating; I don’t hold players responsible for freak injuries, even if there is nothing more frustrating to me as a fan than a player who can’t seem to stay healthy. Let me rephrase that: There is nothing more frustrating than a player with elite potential who can’t seem to stay healthy. There’s a reason why Harden’s injuries loom larger than Crosby’s; although they both have been out for extended periods of time over the last few seasons, nobody realistically expected Crosby to be a season-changer.

While I would be the first to lose patience with a player who injured himself either in a dangerous off-field activity (yes, bar fights count) or in something out of his usual routine, I believe that Harden--much like Hudson before him--just seems to be plagued with an eternal injury. It’s not a string of unrelated freak injuries (Crosby), but rather prevailing, consuming ailments all seeming to stem from a consistent health problem.

I just can’t seem to raise my hopes this year. Every season we go through the requisite Harden excitement, followed by the hold-your-breath starts, followed by the inevitable game where you let your guard down for one minute and Harden is being pulled in the fourth inning for some innocuous-sounding reason, which basically translates to "His arm/side/back just fell off and he’s done for the year."

How long can we keep pretending that Harden is going to pitch? Forget warm-ups for his trip to Japan; can he navigate a flight of that length injury-free? Will he actually start a game this year? Do we have an over/under on how many innings? Can I afford to be excited, or am I just going to be disappointed? How long will it take before I won’t hold my breath at each pitch? Should there be restrictions on his pitching? Should we only allow him to pitch at home, under the best of climate circumstances?

And speaking of ‘home’, I have to rant about something. It’s bad enough that the A’s are charged with two home games during this trip to Japan, where it seems like Boston is the obvious draw, but not to even have them handle the tickets? Yes, I know there are reasons behind everything. Yes, I know it’s good for baseball, and certainly fun for Japan. I don’t begrudge anyone a chance to see the sport, and I don't deny the possibility of a great bonding experience for a young team. But talk about drawing the short end of the stick in this deal!

The A’s have to cut their Spring Training short, when they have about a million potential players to try out and make decisions on, then they have to put the rest of their oft-injured and mostly fragile veterans (seemingly all with back problems) onto a plane for two ridiculously long flights in a ridiculously short amount of time, and are rewarded by not only losing two home games from the schedule, but have to play in a stadium when I’m guessing that all the locals are Boston fans, in addition to the fans from the actual city of Boston who flew to Japan after buying A’s home tickets from the Red Sox.

It’s like the 9AM playoff games all over again!

<Ahem>

So...happy Wednesday!

Oh yeah, and go A’s!

Poll
I've given up on Harden:
  • Yes
  • No

  1072 votes | Results

0 recs | Comment 67 comments

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Two home games

is definitely a rip-off for our team.  We're already one of the two teams that consistently top MLB in travel miles, and now we add this on top of our 81 away games.

On the other hand, it's a no-brainer in terms of money.  Our organization wins because they'll collect more revenue (both tickets and TV) from the Japan games than they would from home games in Oakland.  The league wins because two Boston home games will make more revenue than two Oakland games would.

But it still sucks.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 30, 2008 3:00 AM PST   0 recs

Think of it this way

At least the A's aren't going to be competitive this season... it would be more irritating if I thought it would actually matter. The Oakland A's, as a corporation, clearly benefit from getting the "home cut" of the revenues for these games.

Since I don't believe the team is required to cut the roster down to 25 until April 1, a lot of the vets won't necessarily need to come along for the trip. It won't kill the A's to have Hannahan instead of Chavez, or to not have Chad Gaudin in the bullpen.

And honestly, I think this trope about guys getting back injuries on long flights is seriously overplayed. People fly to and from Japan all the time. Most of them don't injure something on the way, and they aren't even elite athletes trying to stay healthy and flying, essentially, first class. OK, so it happened once. Doesn't mean it's going to happen again.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 30, 2008 9:21 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Irritating as a fan
It takes away 2.5% of my game-attending opportunties this year.  

I wonder, are season tickets 2.5% cheaper this year to account for the 79 game home schedule?  Do any of you season ticket types know?

There is an A in Whimsy.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jan 30, 2008 9:31 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Season ticketholders pay on a per game basis.

Our seats cost $40.00 per seat.  The A's will play 79 regular season games and 1 pre-season game for a total of 80 games.  So we pay $3200.00 per seat for the entire season.

by fc on Jan 30, 2008 10:21 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

That may work for others,

but as one who values a win just as much in a 72-90 season as in a 90-72 season, I don't buy the idea that everything "doesn't matter" if we're not going to the playoffs.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 30, 2008 9:44 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

It matters less

to me, and I suspect to most other people. It's not "nothing," but it's not as bad.

And more to the point, I think everyone would agree that it's better to have fake home games in a noncompetitive season than in a competitive one, given that you're going to have them at some point.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 30, 2008 10:19 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

The plane flight worry

comes purely from the East Coast flights of the last few years. I know Chavy, Crosby, and Duchscherer all have complained about 'long' flights hurting their backs. Apparently, they stiffen. I was trying to picture the flight to Japan, if a New York flight was touch-and-go.

I'm with you--I'd bring the young team to Japan.

So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one

by baseballgirl on Jan 30, 2008 10:07 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Almost every flight i've ever been on

has wrecked havoc on my back (bulging discs and all) including the one I flew first class.  Sitting or laying down for hours on end which is inevitable on long flights is really hard on the back.  If it's bad to begin with, you're going to feel it the next day more often than not.  Does it mean it'll happen again to them, maybe, maybe not.  But I wouldn't be so cavalier about it.  It's a very real concern, or at least damn well better be if the A's are taking health seriously.

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Jan 30, 2008 11:04 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

It isn't a home game

until A's Banjo Man attempts to get a seat behind the plate.

If he's in Japan, then maybe I'll concede two games.

Green Hulk Fists

by oaklandSMASH on Jan 30, 2008 10:06 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Harden is much worse than Hudson

Huddy -- despite his physical woes -- gave some mostly full seasons to the A's. Harden really has yet to do this.

I had just read in one article that Harden currently has "biceps tendonitis" which he claims he can pitch through. This is the earliest in a year that he has an acknowledged physical ailment. Usually he feels great through spring training.

by OaklandSi on Jan 30, 2008 6:23 AM PST   0 recs

I haven't given up on Harden.

But... you know, I am an idiot  eternal optimist.

The cat we're cat-sitting broke my Harden bobblehead yesterday (left ankle and left wrist), so I will take that as a good omen.  The injury demons have turned their attention to BobbleRich, and will leave RealRich alone this year.  In fact, I think I'll leave the bobblehead broken for as long as he's healthy.

(btw, the cat's name is Richard. Yes, that's a stupid name for a cat... I didn't name it.  But now I'm sure that name has to be playing a part in the injury exorcism.)

"There's no real reason why a flight in which one flies naked should be more expensive than any other."

by Poppy on Jan 30, 2008 7:05 AM PST   0 recs

Please keep an eye on this cat for the season

who may very well affect the 2008 A's

by OaklandSi on Jan 30, 2008 8:34 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Now I just need to get a cat named Robert...
"There's no real reason why a flight in which one flies naked should be more expensive than any other."

by Poppy on Jan 30, 2008 9:20 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

If Harden were 6'2" or 6'3" he would be fine.

His delivery is too violent for someone his height (5'11" or 6'). It is only going to continue to plague him with injuries, its the truth.

by asfan777 on Jan 30, 2008 8:48 AM PST   0 recs

I truly feel Harden is done
He might get a few starts in, and that would be great but he will be pulled out of some game and we will read some article with Geren stating that it's not "serious" and then he won't pitch for the rest of the season.

If you think Harden's delivery is too violent, don't look at Lincecum. That guy looks like he is going to throw himself into the ground--ouch.

by Scooter on Jan 30, 2008 8:53 AM PST   0 recs

Lincecum has a different delivery.

Lincecum is not power pitching even though he gets his  cutter up to 96. You can look at Oswalt who is shorter than Harden too, but its that he is POWER pitching with his frame. Same as when Bobby tries to pull a outside slider like he is big poppy and swings as hard as he can and pulls his back out. Richard cant power pitch though he tries. Bobby cant power hit though he tries. Bobby cant go oppo though he tries. Bobby cant hit sliders though he tries. Bobby cant....... oh sorry.

by asfan777 on Jan 30, 2008 9:40 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Cutter?

Lincecum doesn't throw a cutter.

For most of the season, all the fastballs he threw were two-seam fastballs. I think he's still developing a 4-seamer. (Which is kind of scary, considering that he was throwing 2-seamers at up to 99 MPH.)

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 30, 2008 10:17 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

could you elaborate on Lincecum

not power pitching?

It seems to me that he does generate quite a bit of torque with his hips/abdomen in order to achieve his high velocity. how could a pitcher with his frame not?

Brain Sabean lol.

by rebus on Jan 30, 2008 4:00 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I'm shocked...SHOCKED...

that significantly more than half of the voters in the poll have not given up on Harden.  Kudos to y'all for your faith, but I am not a believer.

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Jan 30, 2008 9:04 AM PST   0 recs

yeah, that's really surprising to me, too

Lotsa lurkers voting?

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 30, 2008 12:58 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I couldn't bring myself

psychologically to click away $20.

It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Jan 30, 2008 1:03 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Interesting that the writer

didn't answer the cortisone shot question.  That to me is the most disturbing...a painkiller before even the pre-season workouts have begun?  Given that Harden never could quite recover fromn the injury last fall, it's hard to see him needing a shot in January as anything but ominous.

There is an A in Whimsy.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jan 30, 2008 9:06 AM PST   0 recs

Yeah, good point...

...a cortisone shot is not a great sign all on its own.

So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one

by baseballgirl on Jan 30, 2008 10:04 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

The Solution to the Harden Question

Either that or cryogenically freeze him next to Walt Disney between starts.

Green Hulk Fists

by oaklandSMASH on Jan 30, 2008 10:08 AM PST   0 recs

Give up

I looooooooooooooong ago ceased considering Harden a part of this team.  Dude can't take a nap without getting injured.  He is a complete and total non-factor.  He will start one of the games in Japan and leave after 2 or 3 innings nursing an injured <insert anything here> and won't be heard from for another 2 months.  

I am frustrated with Harden and the organization for their joint reluctance to attempt to convert him into a closer or set-up guy.  Not that I have faith that he could navigate 1-2 innings without injury on a consistent basis, but it certainly increases his chances of adding something to the team.  At the least, a few healthy months of late game relief pitching would increase Harden's trade value.

by ClutchSteinbach on Jan 30, 2008 10:12 AM PST   0 recs

I'm just frustrated period.

I don't think Harden was going to be any 'healthier' as a reliver/closer, and the A's management must agree with that. I just think he's injured and will never come back to baseball, which is kind of sad.

So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one

by baseballgirl on Jan 30, 2008 11:41 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Well, there's always hockey... ;)
"There's no real reason why a flight in which one flies naked should be more expensive than any other."

by Poppy on Jan 30, 2008 11:55 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Everything I see with regard to Harden

tells me that he has a damaged shoulder. Right now, he is not healthy. So the question "will he be healthy all year?" is an illogical one, to me. It's like asking someone if they've stopped beating their wife.

I believe the following, as of now:

  1. Harden will throw at most a handful of innings this year, and more likely than not will not make it out of spring training.
  1. Harden will have shoulder surgery at some point in the next 10 months.
  1. Harden will be non-tendered after the 2008 season.
cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 30, 2008 10:28 AM PST   0 recs

And I can't really argue with that.

Harden is not healthy now, and I doubt he will somehow magically get healthy before ST. But again, it's the Crosby dilemma: Can management actually admit to it? It's not in their best interest.

So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one

by baseballgirl on Jan 30, 2008 11:39 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

The Larger Question

...is, what the heck is going to be our starting rotation?  We have one healthy starter (Blanton), three guys who are coming off injuries or who are injury prone (Harden, Gaudin and Duke), and no 5th starter.  How can we start a season with so many question marks and expect them to be answered in the affirmative?  The truth is, we can't.  It's going to be a loooooong season. Middling offense (built around an injured guy, Chavez, and a strikeout machine, Cust) with a little punch provided by Buck.  That's it---and this from a person who likes both Murphy and Hanahan.  Plus, virtually no starting pitching (Harden is already hurting).  Are you kidding me?

"It's a cookbook!"---The Twilight Zone

by Buck18 on Jan 30, 2008 12:40 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Does it matter?

By the time the team is good again, none of the 2008 starters will even still be on it (possible exception of Gaudin, because he's still very young), unless Eveland, Meyer or Gio Gonzalez wins the 5th starter job. The hope will be that they boost their trade value enough to obtain more prospects and/or become Type A free agents to get more draft picks.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 30, 2008 12:57 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

overstatement?

Suzuki, Barton, Cust, Denorfia, and Buck will all be gone by the time the team is good again? Heck, add Chavez to that list (seeing as how, as you point out, he's actually pretty good and a decent bargain and under control through '11, and the A's have no clear replacement lined up.)

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 30, 2008 1:03 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

my bad: you probably meant starting *pitchers*
The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 30, 2008 1:03 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Indeed

The only position guys whose contracts expire soon enough to not be factors in 2011 are Crosby and Ellis, and I'm hoping Ellis will get an extension of at least that long.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 30, 2008 1:09 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

but what's the chance of that?

It's going to be a sad day the day he signs with someone else..

by tosk on Jan 30, 2008 1:19 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

"There's no real reason why a flight in which one flies naked should be more expensive than any other."

by Poppy on Jan 30, 2008 1:42 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Lord's truth:

I believe the chances of Ellis getting a contract extension by next season (for the A's, obviously) are better than 50-50.

Not a lot better. Maybe 60-40. But better.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 30, 2008 1:52 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Paul, you are right

These facts had to be the deciding factors when Beanse returned from Arizona and determined it was time to rebuild.

I hope Harden can go forward without surgery.  But you can't bet on than.

And Beane decided not to.

Thomas Walker

by Thomas Walker on Jan 30, 2008 11:42 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Couldn't agree more, although..

you might be a little optimistic about the "handful of innings". I saw in one of your later posts a reference to Harden throwing 92 MPH. Is that something that has been reported somewhere or a rough guess based upon the nature of Harden's past/present condition?

by WannaBeGM on Jan 30, 2008 4:54 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Guess

although that is about what he was throwing in his "start" last July.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 30, 2008 5:01 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Japan tickets
BBG, not to disagree with your major premise that the trip to Japan is sucky for the A's, but I don't believe that you can buy tickets for the games in Japan from the Red Sox, either. My understanding is that both A's and Red Sox season ticket holders had a limited window of opportunity to purchase them, but that most of the tickets are being sold through the Tokyo Dome box office which requires you to have a Japanese bank account and/or Japanese mobile phone.  There are some scalpers on craigslist and eBay, both here and in Boston.  
Beane went on to liken the Winter Meetings to pet hamsters who eat their young.

by Englishmajor on Jan 30, 2008 11:14 AM PST   0 recs

That very well could be true :-)

but I remember the Sox selling a package that included tickets, airfare, hotel, and a tour. I have not heard of anything smiliar being offered from the A's, but I'm totally willing to be corrected. It just stood out in Urban's answer that the A's had nothing to do with the ticketing side, which I get, but it's still their home games we're losing.

So, bring on Bonds! Or, not... then, bring back Langerhans!! -One won lost one

by baseballgirl on Jan 30, 2008 11:38 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

MLB

is reimbursing for the lost ticket sales. I don't really see what everyones getting so upset over. We're gonna make money from the TV time and probably a lot of souvenirs and A's memorabilia (why can't I spell this right now?) sold to Japanese folk despite the majority of Red Sox fans. That and the reimbursement and the economic side of this is a good thing, not a bad thing.

But on the health side then yes it's a bad thing I suppose but all the players seem excited for it so I'm sure none of them are bummed and will be ready to play come game time.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Jan 30, 2008 2:35 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Correction

The Athletics are going to make money. We, the membership of AN, are not going to make a red cent.

As misleading as it is to refer to the team's players as "we," it's a hundred times more so to refer to the ownership as such.

(Unrelated etymological side musing: Is the phrase "a red cent" racist? They did have Indian-head pennies back in the day. If it is, I should probably stop using it... but maybe it's just a coincidence.)

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 30, 2008 3:23 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Apparently you're PC, PT

At least, according to this guy.

Of course, if there's a common misconception regarding the Native-American-head penny, then you're on your own as to the audience.    

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 30, 2008 5:33 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Frustration

There is nothing more frustrating than [cheering for] a player with elite potential who can’t seem to stay healthy.

Try being that player with elite potential whom can't seem to stay healthy.  As a fan we aren't even feeling the tip of the frustration iceberg.

What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Jan 30, 2008 11:42 AM PST   0 recs

There are about 8 million reasons

why Harden is, or at least should be, less frustrated than A's fans. And each of them has a picture of George Washington on it.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 30, 2008 12:59 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

You sir, are completely wrong

What about the 120+ million reasons Harden has to be more frustrated than A's fans?  You know, all those George Washingtons he's going to miss out on because he can't stay healthy.  

But I still think all those reasons pale to the frustration he's experiencing by his inability, due to injuries, to take the mound and compete week-in and week-out.

What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Jan 30, 2008 2:16 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

He's already made enough money

that as long as he doesn't severely mismanage his finances, he'll never have to work again. After that point, additional money has a vastly diminished marginal value.

It's not that I think he's not frustrated at all; I'm sure he likes baseball as much as anyone. But he's still getting paid when he's hurt.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 30, 2008 3:36 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

BS

He's already made enough money that as long as he doesn't severely mismanage his finances, he'll never have to work again. After that point, additional money has a vastly diminished marginal value.

If that's so true, then why did A-Rod opt out of a $25 million dollar contract to net himself a $30 million dollar contract?  Hell, if what you're saying is true A-Rod should be play pro bono.  But money is money and any time you miss out on making more you're going to be frustrated.  What ever he's already netted is minimal compared to what he could have netted if he had the ability to stay healthy.

Now I'm just curious, because I'm not a millionaire, maybe you are (you at least talk like you are), but how vast is the diminished marginal value of $120 million when a person already has, say, $10 million?

What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Jan 30, 2008 4:39 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

You don't need a millionaire to answer that

question, you need a microeconomist. Since I'm neither, I can't be of much help here... the best I can do is generalities like the above.

In any case, I didn't say that the marginal value of additional dollars is ZERO, just diminished. Otherwise, you're right, A-Rod would never bother to opt out of his contract.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 30, 2008 5:00 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

In any case

It's totally subjective.  I doubt a microeconomist could tell you what an extra $10 million would mean to me compared to you, considering we both had $10 million to start with.

What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Jan 30, 2008 5:41 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

You seriously think

that Harden isnt frustrated with all of this because he makes good money?  Please, he is a competitive athlete who wants to play and contribute.  You dont get this far without having a competitive edge....Im sure he is extremely frustrated, not to mention he has killed huge contracts later if the money angle has to be considered.  But if you really believe he is less frustrated than a fan, cmon, this is his life and livelihood, I can promise you he is VERY frustrated.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jan 30, 2008 2:22 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

there's good and bad to the japan field trip
like FSU says it cuts down on how many games i can go to this season, and i surely would have gone to all four games if they were here...on the other hand, if it keeps the so-called Nation from invading our home for two games, so be it.

as far Mr. Harden, this time of year allows us to be hopeful, but am I just nurtering the hope that there is hope? I don't see how we can count on him being a factor.

"Baseball- like movies, newspapers, and magazines- has fallen into the hands of rich, vulgar people who neither love or understand it." - Hal Crowther

by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 30, 2008 12:18 PM PST   0 recs

Disappointing

That's the best word i can come up with to describe both Rich Harden and Bobby Crosby. Both of these guys have a ton of talent, but can't seem to reach their potential for whatever reason. Whether it's injuries, lack of discipline or whatever. For the time being, trying to trade either one of them would be a complete waste of time. The return just wouldn't have much upside. I feel that the team should start trying to acquire a minor league replacement for crosby. Not with the intention of playing them this year, but maybe shooting for the '09 or '10 seasons. As for Rich Harden, anything we are able to get from him as far as performance should be considered a bonus. It just seems that RELYING on him is asking to be let down. I don't know enough about Horton to make an educated opinion as to whether he could potentially be a replacement for Crosby, so i would love to hear everyone's opinion on this. There will come a time when neither Harden nor Crosby are part of this team, and that, i believe will be when they finally do realize their potential.

by OrlandoAsFan on Jan 30, 2008 12:19 PM PST   0 recs

I see Horton as a second baseman

On the other hand, I think Gregorio Petit will become a Betancourt-like league average shortstop.

Crosby might realize his potential with another team, but Harden will not. He's never going to be the pitcher we saw in 04-05 again, just like Mark Prior won't be the guy who dominated in 2003. He might be able to mount a comeback, but it'll be as a diminished talent and probably as a reliever.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 30, 2008 1:07 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Harden
I could see Harden as a closer. When healthy, he is is definitely nasty enough. There's an argument for and against it though. He would only throw 15-25 pitches an outing, but the downside would be that he might have to do this 2 or 3 nights in a row. Just seems like a waste to stick him in the bullpen as anything but a closer, but i'm not sure if would be able to handle that either.

by OrlandoAsFan on Jan 30, 2008 2:15 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Right now, it would be pointless

but most guys come off of shoulder injuries, even post-surgery, with diminished velocity. If Harden's throwing 92 instead of 98, he's simply not going to be the force he was previously. I'm guessing that if he does make it back, it will be in the fashion that Kerry Wood did.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 30, 2008 3:27 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

at this point, Harden is like the river

in Texas Hold 'em.

It's out there, it might be really good and save your ass, but you had better not depend on it...

by tosk on Jan 30, 2008 12:52 PM PST   0 recs

You can't step in the same Harden twice
"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 30, 2008 1:55 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Harden/Crosby
Problem is the A's probably couldn't get anything for either of these players or they would have by now.

On one hand, if you were another team's GM what would you give for a pitcher that plays about a month per season?

On the other hand, what would you give for a shortstop that may have great range but can't throw the ball accurately to first base and has been miscast, and hence psychologically damaged, as a power hitter when he is actually a much better small ball hitter (I thought he showed some promise with the bat last season before he got injured).

by Grumpy on Jan 30, 2008 2:35 PM PST   0 recs

Bob Geren ignorant on anatomy?

Check out this quote from Urban's article on the official A's site:

"The tendinitis is nothing to be concerned about," Geren said. "It's a pain in the butt, that's all.

Uh, Bob, biceps tendonitis takes place in the biceps, which on most people is in the arm, not the butt. ;-)

by OaklandSi on Jan 30, 2008 5:04 PM PST   0 recs

Maybe

He was taken out of context and he was actually referring to butt tendinitis.

What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Jan 30, 2008 5:43 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

There was a kid on my football team

when I was 9 or 10 who claimed to have tendinitis in his butt with a straight face.

"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe

by EastCoastA on Jan 30, 2008 5:53 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

It must be why Roger Clements gets those shots

and keeps a straight face.

Green Hulk Fists

by oaklandSMASH on Jan 31, 2008 3:03 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

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