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DLD 1/24/08: Chavy to the Angels?

So, I am checking my email and the various websites that I check daily and I decided to check the A's rumors on prosports daily.  

Star-divide

So, I am checking my email and the various websites that I check daily and I decided to check the A's rumors on prosports daily.  The headline said, The headline said, Chavez to Angels.  
I look further:

Q: The Oakland A's have committed to rebuilding. What are the chances of the Angels going after third baseman Eric Chavez?

--

A: A healthy Chavez would seem to be a perfect fit for the Angels, a veteran who provides Gold Glove-caliber defense and legitimate power from the left side. But before the Angels even think about pursuing Chavez, they must be convinced he has fully recovered from three operations he had in the span of two months last fall.

So yeah, a healthy Chavez would be a good fit to the Angels.  

If Chavez returns to form, he could be a hot commodity on the trade market this summer, and the Angels could certainly make a run at him. Many general managers won't deal within their division, but I've talked to Oakland GM Billy Beane about this several times over the years, and he would not hesitate trading with the Angels if the deal was right.

But Beane knows the Angels organization well, and if he's going to send his franchise player to a division rival, he probably wouldn't settle for anything less than a proven young major leaguer such as Howie Kendrick and a top prospect such as Brandon Wood or Nick Adenhart

What are AN thoughts?

I don't doubt for a second that Beane would deal with anyone if the deal were right but it would hurt to see Chavez actually live up to his potential in a Disneyland uniform.  

Which players would it hurt the most to see in an Angels uniform?  I remember when Rickey was an Angel for the stretch run of 97 and that look so aweful and wrong that I couldn't watch those games.  Also, last season when there were plenty of Miguel to the Angels rumors it really stung to think about him playing SS for the rival.  Or, then again, we should no better being A's fans knowing that anyone can be traded at anytime on this team.  

Some running content:
Marathon world record holder and best runner of all time according to many, Haile Gebrselassie, may skip Olympic marathon due to polution concerns.

Russia to create independent anti-doping agency.

Dump Away.

Poll
What player would it hurt most to see in an Angels uniform?
Miguel Tejada
32 votes
Eric Chavez
107 votes
Byrnes
21 votes
Crosby (yeah, it would hurt the Angels.)
34 votes
I have been paying attention, No player is safe from a trade and I root for the name on the front and not the back.
62 votes
What is up with the running content? Spam the Halo board with that mess!
18 votes

274 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 141 comments

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Comments

Display:

I don't think it adds up

a) I certainly believe that Chavez could get dealt mid-season if he shows he's back to form (although if so, why not keep him at this point...)

b) I certainly believe that Beane would trade a player to the Angels

but, I don't think I believe that Beane would trade his most favorite boy toy to the team he hates.  That is, unless he got an absolute blowout deal (more than Haren), which won't happen given the Angels stingy history with letting their prospects rot while they fail to take the next step.

But it would be nice to dream about Brandon Wood in an A's uniform.

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Jan 24, 2008 5:34 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

No, it wouldn't.

Brandon Wood looks like a disappointment to me - lots of K's, big power numbers in the hitter-friendly PCL.    We've already got Bobby Crosby.

Also, I'm not the most objective source here.  Chavez is my favorite player of the Beane era, having surpassed Hudson a few years ago.  I think I would die if I saw Chavvy suit up for the Halos.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Jan 24, 2008 6:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

destroyer of dreams

BrWd H8R

I agree that my BrWd Lv has diminished in the last year, but he'd still be better than any SS/3B we have in our system.

BTW, I agree that trading Chavez if he comes back is stupid.  He's signed to a relatively okay contract (assuming he's healthy) and you can't have all toddlers.

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Jan 24, 2008 7:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

a) agree; b) agree; "but" disagree

Beane's finally learning to cut bait (albeit too late): Hatteberg, Kendall, Kotsay, Swisher -- all let go for the right price at the time.

And -- "the team he hates"? Linkage? (Projection?) I'm no less an Angels H8r than anyone here, but I have no reason to think Beane feels that way -- especially when it comes to making business deals with them.

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 9:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

he was interviewed on KNBR

saying how he loves the Angels.... prospects.

But MB, I disagree on your first point; "Beane's finally learning to cut bait (albeit too late): Hatteberg, Kendall, Kotsay, Swisher -- all let go for the right price at the time."

Beane waited way too long with Kendall, could have dealt Kotsay before he completly broke down but signed him to an extension instead, waited at least a year too early to cut with Hatteberg. And we don't know if it was the right price and right time, though I am inclined to believe so, to have parted with Swisher.

by Zonis on Jan 24, 2008 9:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Waited way too long with Kendall?

You think the team should have entered 2007, a theoretically competitive year, with Adam Melhuse as the starting catcher?

I'm sorry, I simply disagree with you on this statement. He dealt Kendall as soon as a viable alternative was available.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 24, 2008 9:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreeing with PT.

The right time to trade Kendall was, in hindsight, the day he was brought in.

But that's hindsight. At the time, it made perfect sense to head for the playoffs with a proven clubhouse leader, defensive star, and guy who'd block a slide to home with his face.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 10:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I mean, really,

we all thought Kendall was going to hit .290 with 10 dingers a year, right?

I know I did.

"The more self-centered and egotistical a guy is, the better ballplayer he's going to be."- Bill "The Spaceman" Lee

by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jan 24, 2008 11:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The perils of judging a guy on performance...
...from multiple seasons prior.

Kind of like placing value on Chavez.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 3:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i was optimistic

but since my family is from pittsburgh, i knew better. he wasn't the same power-wise since his shoulder injury, and his horrific first-base injury kinda hurt his wheels.

love the guy though. he's just so gritty. we need more of those guys. GRIT.

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Jan 25, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We don't really disagree

I agree that Beane kept all of them (Swisher excepted) far too long -- but in the case of Kotsay and Kendall, he got rid of them earlier than I thought he would, and got far more in exchange for them than he had any right to given how long he kept them.

Of course, I didn't think he ever should have gotten Kendall in the first place, wasn't entirely sanguine about the Kotsay acquisition, and waffled on the Kotsay extension initially and then quickly realized it was a bad move. And I entirely agree with your assessment of the Hatteberg situation.

It's a gradual process with Beane, especially with the players he obviously favors for intangible reasons. My point is, he seems to be getting better about it.

Though, to counter my own point, imagine if the A's had won, say, 5-7 more games in '07 (entirely reasonable given their Pythagorean) -- Beane could have felt that the team was closer to contention than they actually were, and he might have hung on to Kendall and Kotsay until the bitter end.

(And that's the thing I really don't understand about Beane and underperforming/unhealthy veterans: Beane seems to be likelier to hang onto them when the team is trying harder to win, which makes zero sense to me.)

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 10:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

When you don't like ANY moves he makes...
you're bound to right sometimes. :)
"He's a misfit. He gets along with everyone." - Reggie Jackson, describing Joe Rudi

by McFood on Jan 24, 2008 1:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

hold on there, McSnark

I'd guess I like 85% of the moves Beane makes. It's just that I'm obsessive and vituperative about the 15% I don't like.

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 1:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I personally am looking forward to

vituperatively criticizing at least 25% of Lew-n-Billy's soccer moves.  That Earthquakes ticket pricing structure is an affront to blue collar futbol fans everywhere! </preemptive attack>

There is an A in Whimsy.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jan 24, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't like to see

him have his best seasons as an Angel.  My paranoid mind knows that would happen, and it would suck.

I still have a great feeling about Chavy, and I hope he stays an A 'til we get good again.

by Brian in 317 on Jan 24, 2008 7:02 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hear, hear!

"A healthy Chavez would seem to be a perfect fit for the Angels..."

Step off!  A healthy Chavez is a perfect fit for the A's!

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Jan 24, 2008 7:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

word

I have the fear that if he was dealt he would have 2004 over and over again.

Rickey Henderson: 35, 24, hall of fame!

by Athletics fan and runner on Jan 24, 2008 7:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Correction

A healthy Chavez in 2010 is a perfect fit for the A's!

A healthy Chavez in 2008, assuming we don't trade him, doesn't do shit for the A's

What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Jan 24, 2008 7:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+1
"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Jan 24, 2008 8:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

To do that:

Unless Chavy has a time machine handy so he can go back to the turn of the century, he's not going to be having his best season any time soon.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 10:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I missed The Pie DLD...

so I'm going to post this here. If you love pie and haven't seen Weebl and Bob, well, you haven't lived. They're almost as good as pie and WAY better than donkey poop.

Watch a few of these and you will be hooked for life.

http://www.weebls-stuff.com/wab/pie/

As far as seeing a former A's player in an Angels uni, it's almost a toss up bewteen Miggy and Chavy, but Miggy is more fun to watch, and I'd hate to see him jumping up and down and waving his arms for the Angels and their fans, although their fans would LOVE him.

"He's a misfit. He gets along with everyone." - Reggie Jackson, describing Joe Rudi

by McFood on Jan 24, 2008 7:27 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

He could be the Rally Miggy!
We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 10:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I went and picked up

a slice of banna cream (for the wifey) and apple pie (for me) today just because of the pie DLD.  I got it from Star restaurant in Novato.  I hope they are good or i will swear of pie day next year!

A's all the way in 08 . . . oh never mind!

by micdog2001 on Jan 24, 2008 2:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A .260 hitter

that hits about 18 HR's and strikes out twice a game? Yeah, I'd trade that to the Angels in a second ... we are trying to get better, right?

VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on Jan 24, 2008 8:03 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

The Angels make trades?

I thought all they did is engage teams in discussions, then pull out of them when the other team won't give up three of their best players for Reggie Willits.

So it goes.

by jeepers on Jan 24, 2008 8:13 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

teasers

They always pull out their Willits and wave em around like 'thunder sticks'.  BAN BAN BAN them.

Beane's World!! Excellent!!! Rock On, Beane! Rock On, Geren!

by Satchmo22 on Jan 24, 2008 9:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i doubt it

 If the angels wouldn't give up Howie kendrick for cabrera they will not for chavez.  Maybe a Saunders, Willits, their top pitching prospect nick ?, and erick aybar.  I am not a fan of Brandon Woods.  He is the second coming of Adam Piatt.  
 Beane will trade anybody but he will ask even more from the angels.  

by Arcman on Jan 24, 2008 8:57 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

They were willing to deal Kendrick

Just not Kendrick, Santana and another prospect. He's not untouchable by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not sure what the A's would do with him, though. Play him at third?

In any event, this isn't going to happen unless Chavez shows healthy and Figgins starts the season slowly, so we'll have plenty of time to discuss it later.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 24, 2008 9:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If we got Kendrick

He'd probably play 3rd for 2008, then move to 2nd after that. Or, we'd deal Ellis and put Kendrick at 2B and Hanahan at 3rd.

by Zonis on Jan 24, 2008 9:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If trading Chavez

has as an essential corollary that the A's don't resign Ellis, then I'm against trading Chavez. Chavez AND Ellis for Kendrick and a prospect is way too high a price to pay.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 24, 2008 9:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Calling Canseco a rat would be an insult to rats

It's reported here that Canseco asked Ordonez for hush $$$.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/s...

I love you, k^2. -Poppy*

by kaweahkaweah on Jan 24, 2008 8:57 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

ordonez guilty?

 Ordonez wouldn't go to the league about it but to Boras.  He also wouldn't press charges so it makes you wonder if Ordonez is guilty or is Boras afraid some of his other clients are going to be named.  Canseco is a bum and would do anything for money but so far he has been right about steroids.

by Arcman on Jan 24, 2008 9:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Miraculous injury recovery?

Career years in his 30s?

You've got to admit, it's at least highly plausible. Especially given that, IIRC, he was out of the country for a substantial period of time.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 24, 2008 9:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"Miraculous" injury recovery?

He injured his knee and then had a lower torso hernia. He took some time to recover, since those were pretty much consecutive injuries, ie he lost a lot of training time. The recovery was not "miraculous".

Also, being in the US has not prevented a whole bunch of athletes from having access to and using various banned substances.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jan 24, 2008 10:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

OK, define "miraculous" for me

I would define recovering from two major injuries and then going on to post by far the best year of your career, after the age of 30, as miraculous.

It's certainly possible to dope in the US. In what way does that counter the argument that it's easier to dope elsewhere?

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 24, 2008 10:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

30 isn't that old by MLB standards

Having a career year at 30 doesn't seem too out of whack.

What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Jan 24, 2008 11:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He was 33

not 30.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 24, 2008 11:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Having a career year after two years lost:

Out of whack.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 11:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok

but maybe he was just resting those two years.

What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Jan 24, 2008 12:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
"He's a misfit. He gets along with everyone." - Reggie Jackson, describing Joe Rudi

by McFood on Jan 24, 2008 1:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Again, his 2 injuries were not all that

uncommon for an athlete.

A lower torso (lower abdominal) hernia, this wasn't a herniated lower back disc with nerve damage or anything like that, is a not a career threatening injury of any sort, even if it can be painful.

The knee injury was more serious, but again, nothing miraculous about it.

This isn't say a pitcher coming back from a rotator cuff tear in his shoulder combined with labrum damage, nerve damage etc.

The only thing noteworthy about his injuries were that they occurred consecutively, thus forcing him out of a regular training and competition routine for a very long time.

As for his year, I was responding to your initial claim that his injury recovery was miraculous. It wasn't.

"It's certainly possible to dope in the US. In what way does that counter the argument that it's easier to dope elsewhere?"

There's no indication that it is easier to dope elsewhere. Whether it is "easier" depends on what you want to dope with. Certain stuff might be easier to acquire out of the US, OTOH, certain other stuff might not be available outside the US.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jan 24, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess the question about obtaining stuff

is not really the important one when it comes to doping overseas. (Although Austrian athletes have been suspected of shady behavior quite often recently, so I suspect it's easier to get some drugs there. I'm SURE it's easier to get EPO, but I don't know why a baseball player would use that.)

What is, is the fact that while he was in Austria, or wherever he was, it was distinctly unlikely that anyone was going to be TESTING him for steroids (or HGH, not that there's an effective test for that anyway). It's pretty easy to visualize a scenario where he leaves the country, gets the operation done, dopes to reduce his recovery time and get him the next big contract, and then gets off the juice before he actually gets drug-tested.

Let me be clear-- I don't think the crazy 2007 was because he suddenly started roiding before the season. I think it was mostly luck-- players as slow as he is don't post BABIPs in the 380s unless they're lucky, and it was like 70 points above his career baseline. What I do think is very possible is that he used steroids and/or HGH to rebuild his body to the point that it was capable of producing seasons as good as he was having in the early 2000s, and luck took over from there.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 24, 2008 3:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently:

He did go to Boras, and Boras filed a complaint with the FBI.

But filing a complaint about blackmail doesn't mean Ordonez wasn't using. It just means Canseco is an idiot.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 10:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

An idiot and a rat.

And I'd bet money that Boras would not file a bogus report with the FBI.  That is a good way to get into a lot of trouble.

I love you, k^2. -Poppy*

by kaweahkaweah on Jan 24, 2008 10:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure the report isn't bogus.

Canseco needs cash, Canseco has no morals, and Ordonez is a big fat rich target.

Who in all likelihood uses/used chemicals.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 11:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

It's amazing how easily we'll throw around accusations like this these days.  Everyone knows that Ordonez had fairly revolutionary knee surgery to correct a career-threatening problem, right?

So it goes.

by jeepers on Jan 24, 2008 12:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Unless he had his legs cut off..
...and replaced with Oscar Pistorius' Cheetah springs, ain't no surgery I know of will take a guy from MLB average and turn him into a superstar after two seasons off.

In his 30's, no less.

Something else to consider - why would Canseco choose him to blackmail if he didn't have something to hide? I mean, unless he's blackmailing EVERYONE or has some weird vendetta against Magglio, the very fact that he went to him at all tells me there's more than smoke involved.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 3:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's not take this too far

Maggs was a very good player (way more than "MLB average") from 2000-2004. He was regularly posting OPS+ in the 120s. And that's essentially what he posted this season, once you factor in the fact that he was ridiculously lucky on balls in play. Whether he was on steroids or not, last season was a fluke.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 24, 2008 4:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

perhaps he stepped in some lucky shit?

{Oz vows to never root for a team that intentionally steps in same}

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 4:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Jose's information was wrong.

I'm sure Jose is making a concerted effort to name every name he can in his new book, assuming he's being well advised; let's not forget his real motives here.  Naming Magglio Ordonez could have a substantially positive impact on sales.  There's no way every lead he thinks he has will pan out accurately, and if that's the case, Magglio is pretty damn smart for taking it straight to the league to get it cleared up.

So it goes.

by jeepers on Jan 24, 2008 5:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

IMO, most athletes

including baseball players use banned substances. I have been correct so far, ergo, if I now accuse Ordonez of using banned substances, I am correct?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jan 24, 2008 10:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Rat?

Rat or Whistle blower?

I listened to FP Santangelo on the Giants Leader this off season and while he was trying to pretend as if he was doing the right thing and being honest by talking about the fact that he did cheat and use HGH it was also clear that he held animosity for Adam Piatt for mentioning that he got HGH for Santangelo.

It seems pretty inconsistent that society in general, and Santangelo in this case, talks up the value of honesty but then intimate that people who tell the truth are rats. It's like there is some sort of scale to the value of honesty.

If you are completely honest, and some people you know who were doing dishonest things catch public scorn for their actions, that is not worth as much as being partially honest and omitting names from your account of a situation.

That is bull crap frankly. And while Canseco is not exactly telling the truth out of the kindness of his heart, he is telling the truth. And that is more valuable than covering people's asses. Regardless of his motivations.

Now if you meant he was a rat for trying to extort money from a fellow cheater. I can buy that.

by jeffro on Jan 24, 2008 1:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Rats and truth aren't mutually exclusive.

Jose Canseco is a rat, without any question.  He cheated as extensively as anyone ever has, has engaged in violence with other people, and has toured our legal system extensively.  Simply put, he is a bad human being.

Does that mean that he doesn't have access to some very damning information, and that a good deal of what he included in his book is true?  Certainly not.  But there were also plenty of documented lies in his book as well.  He has hardly earned the credibility to take anything he says at face value.

So it goes.

by jeepers on Jan 24, 2008 1:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, Canseco is being "honest"

by supposedly asking for a bribe not to tell. Yup, real "honest"

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jan 24, 2008 2:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I wasn't clear

I guess I don't get the idea that someone who tells the truth is a rat. Not just Canseco. Which is it? 1. The truth is important. 2. The truth is only important if it doesn't out your favorite player.

I ahven't read Canseco's book. But, can someone tell me, for the heck of it, what are the documented lies?

The only things I remember reading about coming from the book were: McGwire took roids, Giambi took roids, Palmiero took roids, Juan Gone took roids... Two of those have been proven true absolutely. 2 are presumed true.

So in this case... yep Canseco is telling the truth and that means he isn't a rat for those particular statements.

I know there was a lot more in the book. What are the thigns he said that ahve been proven false?

by jeffro on Jan 24, 2008 2:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Motives are important

He spoke the truth, but he did it for $$$$.  If he was going to betray the confidence of his friends and colleagues, he should do it for good reasons, such as eliminating the PED problem in sports, not so he could make a quick buck.  And threatening Ordonez that he would come clean unless Ordonez gave him $$$? Even dirtier.  He basically stabbed people in the back for selfish purposes.  

I don't respect that--at all.

I love you, k^2. -Poppy*

by kaweahkaweah on Jan 24, 2008 2:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Respect etc.

So, yes Canseco is a rat. To me, extorting money out of Ordonez and promising to NOT tell the truth is what makes him a rat.

But is Adam Piatt? He gave names to Mitchell. He didn't get paid. Is Brian McNamee a rat? He didn't get paid.

The big deal to me is that rat is usually used to demean someone who told the truth and it was an inconvenient truth for some of his peers.

I think that is crap. Hooray for Adam Piatt and Brian McNamee for telling the truth.

Boo to Greg Anderson for protecting a fraud by refusing to tell the truth. By refusing to be a "rat."

by jeffro on Jan 24, 2008 3:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't call Piatt a rat.

I don't recall McNamee's motives for talking.

I love you, k^2. -Poppy*

by kaweahkaweah on Jan 24, 2008 3:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

McNamee's motives for talking

Mitchell Report, p.167:

During the Radomski investigation, federal law enforcement officials identified Brian McNamee as one of Radomski’s customers and a possible sub-distributor.  McNamee, through his attorney, entered into a written agreement with the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of California.  The agreement provides that McNamee will cooperate with the U.S. Attorney’s Office.  No truthful statements can be used against McNamee in any federal  prosecution by that Office; if, however, he should be untruthful in any statements made pursuant to that agreement, he may be charged with criminal violations, including making false statements, which is a felony.

As far as I know, McNamee was never charged with anything, but it sure sounds like he was tipped that the feds were coming after him next. As a sub-distributor, he knew he was vulnerable, so he went to them and cut a deal.

McNamee's motives were the same as Radomski's and Bigbie's: to avoid federal prison.

Oh, and I agree that Piatt isn't a rat.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 25, 2008 1:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, he proved his own comments false

in this Mike Wallace interview:

"You write repeatedly about injecting steroids and growth hormones with and into Mark McGwire," says Wallace. "Tell me about your firsthand experiences with McGwire and steroids."

"Just the first time, injecting them in his buttocks," says Canseco, laughing. "It wasn't like you gave a lot of thought. It was something so common."

"What we did more times than I can count was go into a bathroom stall together, shoot up steroids," read Wallace from Canseco's book. "After batting practice or right before the game, Mark and I would duck into a stall in the men's room, load up our syringes and inject ourselves. I would often inject Mark."

"I injected him probably twice," adds Canseco. "But it wasn't like, I mean, we would just walk in and a lot of times they were pill form. A lot of times, you would just, a quick injection of whatever and that's it."

"I'm just repeating what you say in the book," says Wallace. "And if we're to believe what you say in the book, 'I would often,' not twice, 'inject Mark.'"

"Well, I think it was more inject ourselves. I think I injected him. I mean, this is a long time ago. Once or twice for sure. I didn't keep track," says Canseco. "An athlete may prepare his needle and may ask another athlete to inject him quickly. And that's the way it works."

"And these were not allowed at that time in the league," asks Wallace.

"Absolutely no," says Canseco.

He also claimed that he beat up Kevin Costner at Cal Ripken's request, because Costner was making moves on Cal's wife.  Credibility is not Jose's middle name.

So it goes.

by jeepers on Jan 24, 2008 3:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That is kind of ticky tacky

He was present while McGwire injected himself. I believe that. You don't?

by jeffro on Jan 24, 2008 3:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure.

It's pretty hard to believe uncorroborated testimony from someone who clearly exaggerates.

So it goes.

by jeepers on Jan 24, 2008 5:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

then...

Why not just say that?  His story changes like a chameleon - he's clearly a compulsive liar, really.  

That doesn't mean that he never tells the truth, but it's really hard to separate truth and fiction.  

And... I believe most of the players outed in his book are cheats - I just don't know why Canseco seems to go all out to tell stupid lies about it all.  

by ChrisCEIT on Jan 25, 2008 2:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Cal Ripken Part

Makes me laugh. I can't find that anywhere on the web, but damn that is a funny thought.

by jeffro on Jan 24, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The problem

is that we don't know what is the actual "truth".

If Canseco did indeed try to extort Ordonez, how do you know he didn't do this with other players: telling the "truth" when the players didn't pay him?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jan 24, 2008 10:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Best Case Scenario

What is Chavvy going to be in 2008?  Three offseason surgeries, Zero protection in the Batting Lineup (We know Chavvy needs protection:  He had his best years w/ Giambi, Tejada, and Big Frank).

I guess the saving grace is that we won't be a contender in 2008, so Chavvy won't be facing as many lefthanders in the 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th innings when we're down 4-0, 5-1, 6-2, 7-3 in a lot of games... and he won't be counted on to "Carry the Load", because it won't matter.  We all know how Chavvy does when It Doesn't Matter vs. It Matters.

If Chavvy is traded, I think the Dodgers or Padres are better suiters.  

by Colorado Fan on Jan 24, 2008 9:57 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

The Padres already have too many third basemen

with Headley and Kouzmanoff.

The Dodgers have LaRoche, and seem finally willing to give him the starting job.

Right now the Angels actually have more of a third base hole than either of those teams. Figgins is a dismal defensive third baseman.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 24, 2008 10:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Protection ....

Chavez had one of his worst seasons in 2006, with Frank Thomas in the lineup. He had his best season in 2004, when he was "protected" by a hobbled Jermaine Dye.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Jan 24, 2008 10:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I feel compelled to admit:

If he played for another team, this would be where I would reply with..

"*cough*steroid testing commences*cough*"

I wasn't going to say it, but I figure in the context of all that's happened over the past year, I should avoid a double standard.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 11:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

agree entirely

I almost said the same thing myself. What's more, the only period of time where Chavez remained relatively unhindered by his long-term chronic conditions (at least one of which has apparently bothered him since high school) was when he was surrounded in the clubhouse by the Giambis, Tejada, Velarde, et al. Of course, those were also his early to mid 20s, so his current physical deterioration could simply be natural age-27-on aging and decline.

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 11:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Admittedly, yes.
But these days, whenever I hear 'might be' explaining a performance drop off, I generally translate it as 'unlikely to be' in my head.

Sad that it's come to this, but I saw some old Cal Ripken footage the other day, and dude was pumped the year he retired - far more than he was five years earlier.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 3:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

dream scenario

Chavez gets off to a hot start, LAN's 3B of choice gets off to slow start, LAN is 2 games back at the deadline and gives us Kemp or LaRoche + Hu along with a pitcher for Chavez.

by MrIncognito on Jan 24, 2008 11:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yet another reason to sign Bonds

Bonds would at least respresent some protection for Chavez which in turn could boost Chavez' production and in turn his trade value.

Sign Bonds now!

What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Jan 24, 2008 11:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Personally:

I'd take Figgins for Chavez in a straight swap.

I think the gamble that he'll regress further is a better chance than the one that assumes he'll bounce back to '04.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 10:08 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

do not want

I also see Chavez as a Kendall/Kotsay s(t)unk cost -- but just as with them, there's no reason to unload him for a proven MLB mediocrity with too much service time used up. I'd take a Blevins/Devine type for him, straight up.

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 10:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You must be joking

Trading Chavvy for Blevins straight up? Chavvy is arguably the best defensive 3Bman in the league even when he's injured. The guy can still hit around 20 HRs during a season when his back and both arms are ready to turn to dust and you're willing to trade him for a relief pitcher only. I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Jan 24, 2008 12:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

emphasis on "arguably"

Chavez wasn't close to being the best defensive 3B in the league last year. You could see that from the stats or just watching him. And he arguably won his '06 GG despite dropping back to the pack defensively.

And, yeah, if another team is willing to take on his entire salary before he's proven himself healthy (and, per PaulThomas's points, if the money saved could be better spent on other players and/or channeled into scouting/signing bonuses/etc) and give up a decent high-ish-ceiling arm, I'd do that deal.

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 1:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

That would be ridiculous.

Figgins is a guy with limited defensive abilities who just had a career year at the plate. If Chavez MIGHT regress, Figgins is almost a moral certainty to.

He's also under control for a shorter time.

I wouldn't trade him for a middle reliever, either. The team has plenty of those, and there's no reason to dump his salary.

Rolen and Glaus were apparently worth "each other," which is a heck of a lot more than either Chone Figgins or an MRP.

I simply don't understand why people on this site have such an irrational loathing of Chavez. I guarantee you every team in baseball that had the money available would bang down the clubhouse door if Beane offered to trade him for a random arm.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 24, 2008 10:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that's ludicrous

First of all, there are only about 3 teams right now that have the money "available" (NYY, BOS, LAA), since we're so late in the day for FA signings and '08 budgeting that only teams that are already paying the luxury tax and have massive revenues could really take him on. And of those 3, only the Angels have a need at 3B (and moving Chavvy to 1B, where he might conceivably be a Mientkiewiczesque asset [though his right-handedness in the field would be a detraction], would render him a serious underperformer relative to league median offensively).

What's more, he's coming off of 3 offseason surgeries -- for chronic conditions that the surgeries won't entirely cure even if they're successful. Add to that the fact that his offensive productivity has been on a steady and increasingly steep decline, his defense has been declining slightly (and steeply last year), and he's only 3 years younger than Magglio Ordonez. Plus, he hasn't swung a bat or fielded a ground ball in anger since the end of July.

If Beane could get someone to take on his entire salary (which is what you have to mean by "had the money available") and get a Blevins/Devine type (which is most assuredly not a "random arm"), that would be quite a steal.

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 10:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

3 teams?

What about the Giants, Dodgers, Brewers and Twins?

by Zonis on Jan 24, 2008 10:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Twins, no. Giants, maybe.

The Twins simply don't pay that kind of money for players. Sure, they could afford it, but they won't. Plus, Chavez on turf?

The sense I get from the Giants is that they're maxed out (remember, in addition to their passel of big/bad/dumb contracts, they've got a lot of stadium debt they're financing) -- though I think Chavez would make a fair amount of sense for them if he's healthy. (OK, he'd make more sense for Sabean if he's not healthy.)

Dodgers and Brewers, I'll defer to your and others' judgment. Dodgers certainly have the revenue.

But to my central point -- would any of those 3-7 teams pay full freight on him given his health?

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 11:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Giants

are rumored to be interested in acquiring Joe Crede, who's the same age as Chavez, has never been nearly as good a hitter, and also had serious injury issues last year. (The rotoworld link suggests the possibly of Cain for Crede, but that has to be in the "even Brian Sabean isn't that dumb" category - their source for the rumor, in the Murky News makes no mention of Cain.)

"Tomorrow it may rain." - Leo Durocher

by andeux on Jan 24, 2008 11:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Brewers

Brewers would of been a perfect fit before signing Cameron.  Now to get Chavez they'd need to move Hall, which is possible but I don't see happening at this point.  I think any team worth a lick wants to see Chavez healthy first.  The Brewers have money now but not sure they would be willing to take on the entire contract, especially with all those young guys getting raises in the next few years for them.  Lord knows they could use a lefty in that lineup, only one is Fielder.  A healthy Chavez is definately an upgrade over Hall in almost every way...but what would the A's require?  Brewers won't move any of the current players other than Hall, Gwynn Jr(they don't seem enamored with him for whatever reason), Vargas, Capuano or Bush.  Vargas is filler, Bush has some ability but is very inconsistant.  Cappy has talent and should bounce back but is not a cheap player anymore.  Manny Parra possibly and they do have a decent SS prospect although his name escapes me... plus LaPorta, who I doubt would be moved but was rumored to be trade bait after drafted.

Gas to Chicago- $23.87 A's/White Sox Tix- $28 Watching the A's whipping the Sox in July 05'- Priceless

by WiscoFan on Jan 24, 2008 1:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Brewers problem

isn't anywhere close to being a lack of a lefty.

It's defense and pitching.

As for Chavez vs Hall, Hall can play average D at 2b and SS. If and when they finally concede that Rickie Weeks is not suited to 2b, just as they have now conceded that Ryan Braun is not suited to 3b, they can move Hall to 2b.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jan 24, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Neither Blevins nor Devine projects as a closer

They're not elite talent at their position (crack, maybe-- not elite). And the position they play is the single most fungible, least valuable position in baseball. In addition to being one at which the A's have a surplus of players right now. Meanwhile, the 3B situation is Hannahan and a lot of prayer if Chavez goes.

Dumping the salary is useless at this point. For three straight years, there has barely been a player worth buying on the free agent market. The team already has enough cash to get anybody it wants on a single-player basis. The marginal value of a bigger slush fund is pretty small compared to the talent loss involved.

To put it in simple terms, I'd much rather have Chavez (or less cash and a blue-chip prospect or two) than Blevins plus Carlos Silva.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 24, 2008 11:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

you're evading the argument

My contention is against this: "I guarantee you every team in baseball that had the money available would bang down the clubhouse door if Beane offered to trade him for a random arm." I haven't seen anything to back that up.

In terms of on-field talent for '08 (both in terms of what Chavez represents if healthy and what the A's might potentially get using his cost savings), yes, I agree, trading Chavvy wouldn't optimize the A's competitiveness for this year. But freeing themselves of the '09-10 commitment would surely be useful, yes?

To pursue a different angle, I'd like to nail you down on what you think Chavez' chances are of recovering and providing good offense and defense '09-10. Me, I think those chances are really slim.

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 11:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm going to try to do this objectively

by figuring out the decline in production that Rolen and Glaus (the best comparables right now) have experienced over the past few years and looking at that. I'll check back in a bit.

My earlier statement was overblown, since I don't think that teams that have an established third baseman would take him on and try to move him. So the Mets, Red Sox, Jays, maybe a few other mid-large-market teams wouldn't do it.

But freeing themselves of the '09-10 commitment would surely be useful, yes?

This is the thing that bugs me. I'm not sure of it at all. Neyer linked to an article yesterday which pointed out that the term "weak free agent class" has now been thrown around for three years running, which is starting to look like a trend, not a coincidence. I think the purchasing power of "pure cash" is declining at a rapider rate than people appreciate.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 24, 2008 11:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

last point: a very, very good one

Absolutely agree. I hadn't thought of that.

On the other hand (and now I'm just being speculative and coutnterintuitive for the sheer hell of it) if there is indeed a trend in MLB to avoid middle-aged FA signings, by next offseason or the following, could those players be ... undervalued? (No, probably not. But maybe.)

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 12:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think so ...

talent is limited ... money, for a lot of teams, effectively isn't.

That -- AND -- there isn't anywhere else that teams can spend their money. Their's no amount of money they can use to entice non-free agents to come aboard.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Jan 24, 2008 12:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Unless they're looking to Japan.
Just sayin'.
We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 3:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Where is this trend?

Just this offseason, Torii Hunter, Aaron Rowand, Ichiro, Arod, Posada, Mike Lowell, have all been signed to fairly large contracts.

Jose Guillen and Eric Byrnes also got good contracts.

And these are just position players.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jan 24, 2008 2:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

On the other side of that:

Keeping Chavez is useless, even if he has a career year this season (and he won't).

We won't be competing for anything more than .500 in the standings, he'll chew up many millions that, admittedly, aren't needed elsewhere, but at the same time, there's no point in throwing the cash down a hole just for the sake of it, and he's sucked increasingly more every season, thus killing his trade value to the point where he's in Kotsay Land.

Look at it this way - with Chavez out there, we prevent a good young future corner outfielder getting real world game time. Is it better to hold onto Chavez in the hope that he increases his trade value (I'd say that's 50-50), while forking out large cash to him each month, or is it better to bring someone new in (perhaps FOR Chavez) who can turn into something great by the time we're competitive again?

Oh, and lastly, if other teams were seriously in a Chavez state of mind, don't you think they'd be talking to Billy RIGHT NOW, knowing he's surplus to requirements, knowing his contract isn't outrageous for the potential upside, and knowing that his trade value is low?

Heck, I'm shocked he's not already gone - the only reason I can think of as to why he isn't, is because other teams are looking at what he's done over the last three seasons, while we're looking at what he did when Giambi was here.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 11:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+1....

About 100% how I feel about it, really well said Oz.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jan 24, 2008 12:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Chavez is signed through 2010 with a 2011 option

The team had damned well better be competitive again by 2011.

With Chavez out there, we prevent a good young future corner outfielder getting real world game time.

I'm assuming you meant "infielder" here, but I have no idea who you're talking about. Hannahan isn't either particularly good or particularly young (his ceiling is pretty much what he did last season), and past him the depth chart looks like a couple of defensively questionable ex-catchers (Powell, Brown) and C prospect whose stats were inflated by the CA League (Baisley).

I have no objections-in-principle to a trade of Chavez. What I do object to is a trade which would decrease the talent level of the team as a whole (which a salary dump would do), and given the system's dearth at 3B, such a trade would probably have to involve getting back a good 3B prospect.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 24, 2008 12:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You obviously missed the part...
...where I said that such a prospect might come in return for Chavez.
We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 3:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, OK...

Did you miss the part where I said I was OK with that?

If the A's can use Chavez to get a more talented, less injury-prone prospect replacement, then more power to them.

I'm not really sure who the top 3B prospects are these days, other than the ones like LaRoche and Longoria who are already penciled into teams' starting lineups. Any help here? Devo? Grover?

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 24, 2008 4:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Why useless?

Does the difference between 75 wins and 85 wins mean absolutely nothing to you?  Is W/L completely irrelevant in any season we don't make the playoffs?

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 24, 2008 2:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's not that I don't value ten wins..
...in a losing season, it's that I don't value them at being worth ten million bucks and a bunch of prospect development.
We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 3:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If only we had a prospect for Chavez to block

the development of ...

and 10 wins for only $10m would definitely be worth it in improved revenue.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Jan 24, 2008 4:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 24, 2008 4:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Fringe benefits

Coroner steals from corpse.  More accurately, "Theft by taking."  (Is there any other kind?)

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Jan 24, 2008 10:25 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

*Grover* Tuten

The warm & fuzzy coroner.

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Jan 24, 2008 10:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I've been tuten all morning.

I have to stop eaten curry.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 11:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

In my ongoing attempt to kill your productivity,

those of you who are about my age probably remember with much fondness the computer game "Lemmings."  Now, you can play the whole game online here.  Warning: not recommended for the gainfully employed.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Jan 24, 2008 10:26 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Lemmings!

I reached one screen that I busted my brain about for ever and simply couldn't see how it was even possible.

I suppose there must be a forum somewhere and I can ask for hints.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 24, 2008 10:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Booooooo!

Lemmings with no music makes baby Jebus cry.

"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick, 10/7/07

by doctorK on Jan 24, 2008 11:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ahh!

I used to play that game at my cousins' house all the time! (that and Sleuth, which I'm not sure anyone has heard of, but it was super fun!)

"I never saw a hooligan I did like. They're like left-handed pitchers, they all have a screw loose somewhere." - The Asphalt Jungle

by drmmerchk on Jan 25, 2008 2:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

awesome find.

Of course, I hate you now for taking my weekend from me.

by ChrisCEIT on Jan 25, 2008 4:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe this DLD has made it to 10:45

and no one has mentioned that Chavez is a heartless cho... Never mind.

It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Jan 24, 2008 10:46 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Was the next letter going to be a K or an L?

Never mind, what am I saying?  Couldn't be an L.

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Jan 24, 2008 10:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Damn. I was going to make that joke.
The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 10:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I know.
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Jan 24, 2008 10:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

did the sentient Stalingrad trees tell you?
The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 11:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

*snerk*
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Jan 24, 2008 11:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not listening....

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 24, 2008 12:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I heartily and post-pre-emptively counter that

notion by way of the following link.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Jan 24, 2008 10:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Chavez Is NOT Going to the Angels.

This has been discussed on several occasions. The only place that really made any sense, was the  Dodgers. We have dealt with them in the past / Bradley. If & when Chavez shows he is healthy, a deal may occur. The A's are in a position to entertain any offer, ala Swisher. Expect Chavez, Street & Blanton to be available, but only under the pretense of what another team wants to give up.

We truly have no untouchables or players we want to build around. This is Beane's strategy. I also wouldn't be surprised if Beane picked up someone like Bedard. We now have plenty of chips / prospects to deal with. The O's may want someone like Gonzales or DLS. It's just a matter of perceived value.      

by alpine26 on Jan 24, 2008 10:46 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Bedard would make no sense at all

We traded Haren with 5 cheap years under contract so we can pick up Bedard with 2 arbitration years left? Doubtful.

by MrIncognito on Jan 24, 2008 10:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps

A potential Trade for Bedard only makes sense to the A's, if the perceived value of the prospects you give to the Orioles are based on Bedard's arby eligible contract. Out of the eleven prospects we obtained for Haren, Swisher & Kotsay, I would give up three of them for Bedard. Because Haren & Swisher were locked into specific contracts, we supposedly obtained close to or above their value in prospects.        

by alpine26 on Jan 24, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Which 3 is the question?

The only way trading Bedard to the A's makes sense for the O's is if they believe that the 3 prospects that they are getting from the A's is better than what they can get from the Mariners / Mets / Reds / Yanks / RS / etc.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jan 24, 2008 2:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Chavvy is my favorite player

I would definitely miss him if he left.  And I would miss him even more if he was actually good again when he left.

But I felt that way about Swisher and Ramon Hernandez, and others along the way, so I guess that's how it goes.

I don't share the idea that losing a player to the Angels is somehow worse than losing him to another team. (In fact, I'd probably like it marginally better since I'd still see more than if he were further afield. Also, I think Eric would be happier staying in California, so I'd like that, too.)

I know a lot of A's fans hate the Angels, but the diary's presumption that everyone here does is a bit of projection, and the idea that Beane does is blatant and ridiculous projection.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 24, 2008 10:47 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

There's a lot to like there

If the Angels are talking Kendrick + prospects for Chavez, I'm definitely interested if I'm Beane.

Adenhart is probably a little overrated, but I see that as an advantage for Beane. Start talking Kendrick, Adenhart, and a couple high-upside, low-minors types, then "settle" for Walden and O'Sullivan or some such deal.

by MrIncognito on Jan 24, 2008 10:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

If the Angels are talking Kendrick

...and a sack of BP balls, they're high.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Jan 24, 2008 11:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow...

No way the Angels go that high for Chavez.....No chance.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jan 24, 2008 12:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

To do in Oakland

I am going to be up in Oakland Friday night (coming for Fanfest).

Anyone have any recommendations for what to do in town?
I was looking at Luka's Taproom or The Trappist for a drink, Oakland Chinatown; and I have heard on High and International they have a terrific collection of Mexican food from catering trucks.
Any recommendations?

Thanks all

by apilgrim on Jan 24, 2008 11:46 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'd recommend all of those things you mentioned

What else are you looking for?

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Jan 24, 2008 12:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

does Anaheim patronize those trucks when in town?

Angels we have heard on High and International.

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 12:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Luka's is fun

I watched the NFC title game there.

by OaklandSi on Jan 24, 2008 12:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oakland Chinatown

There's a pre-Lunar New Year street bazaar on Saturday and Sunday. FYI.  If you're still around Sunday, there's also an early celebration of Tet at Clinton Park.

Beane went on to liken the Winter Meetings to pet hamsters who eat their young.

by Englishmajor on Jan 24, 2008 12:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I won't argue whether or not

Chavez should go.  I will say that IF he is traded my wife will swear off the A's for an indefinite amount of time and kill me for ever making her an A's fan.  She likes him that much (she doesn't care much for stats so your arguments will have no affect on her)

A's all the way in 08 . . . oh never mind!

by micdog2001 on Jan 24, 2008 11:59 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

"At least I won my fantasy football league"

WARNING: Not safe if drinking beverage.

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 12:34 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

LMAO

Yay!  A video link I can actually enjoy at work!  No audio needed!

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Jan 24, 2008 12:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This makes me feel much better about myself

Success, here I come!

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 12:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Dateline: KANSAS CITY

Kansas City Royals general manager Dayton Moore on Wednesday did not deny that his team is very close to completing a trade for Minnesota Twins ace Johan Santana.

"That’s a ridiculous question," he said, when asked why his team just didn’t go out and trade for Santana.

There is an A in Whimsy.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jan 24, 2008 2:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, sure -- next thing you'll tell me ...

... that David Forst actually made the Mulder trade.

The best that can be said about this is that it's imaginative. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 24, 2008 2:51 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

We can't trade Chavy.

I just bought his jersey last season.

by sf drift king on Jan 24, 2008 10:01 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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