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Kotsay trade finalized

[EDITOR'S NOTE: This one is hard for me.  Kotsay was one of my favorite A's in his time here, which was no small feat on his part considering that I really, really hated giving up Ramon Hernandez for him.  At the same time, this is an awesome move by Beane and company.  Who knows what Kotsay might provide this year and this gives the A's a chance to see what they have in Denorfia.- Blez]

The deal is done.

Kotsay apparently passed his physical, and the mystery throw-in low-minors pitcher has been identified: the A's, in addition to Devine, get RHP Jamie Richmond.

Prospect/minors gurus, any info on Richmond?

0 recs  |  Comment 153 comments

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Comments

Display:

jamie richmond

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/playe...

Drafted - Selected by Atlanta Braves in 31st Round (941st overall) of 2004 amateur entry draft (June-Reg)  

2.49 era
217.1 ip
h/9      hr/9    bb/9    k/9     whip
8.25 0.37 1.29 6.72 1.06

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 14, 2008 3:08 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

But is he awesome?
What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Jan 14, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

is he kotsay?

no, so he is very awesome.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 14, 2008 3:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
"Don't be an ass!" --Bill King

by batgirl on Jan 14, 2008 3:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or is he 'teh' awesome?
"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 14, 2008 5:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

you mean

t3h 4w350m3x0rz right

"He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Jan 15, 2008 9:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

sickels

http://www.minorleagueball.com/story...

  1. Joey Devine, RHP, Grade B
  1. Jamie Richmond, RHP, Grade C+
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 14, 2008 3:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

and the previous year...

http://www.minorleagueball.com/story...

  1. Joey Devine, RHP, B (he has been handled poorly but still has a good arm)
  1. Jamie Richmond, RHP, B (an aggressive grade but the numbers are great and my intuition likes him)
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 14, 2008 3:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Richmond, How much money did he pay

...for his "intuition" fee?

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on Jan 15, 2008 11:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Richmond
Born 3/23/86

Ranked 24th in Atlanta's system in the 2007 Handbook.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/R/Jamie-Richmond.shtml

6'3" 190 lbs, lots of projection. SP with 90-91 MPH fastball, curve and change. Offspeed stuff projects as average but is willing to throw his curve when behind in the count. Fastball has natural cutting action. Spent last year in Low-A, Stockton has another new arm to play with.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Jan 14, 2008 3:11 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Midland

Does this make it official that Anderson and DLS will start in Midland.

On another related note, the most exciting competition in spring training might be the competition for spots in the Midland, Stockton, and Kane County rotations.

by Threepwood XX on Jan 14, 2008 3:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think your 2nd comment works best

The A's might want Anderson in AA and will certainly give him every opportunity to win a trip to Midland in ST but I doubt they'll push him to AA unless they're absolutely certain he's ready.

They don't want to rush Anderson or DLS.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Jan 14, 2008 3:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Holy crap.

I still can't believe Beane got two prospects and a million dollars to dump Kotsay.

LawDaddy's Signature

by JediLeroy on Jan 14, 2008 3:19 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

baseball america

neither guy is in their top 10:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...

just Best Slider   Joey Devine

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 14, 2008 3:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

On behalf of A's fans everywhere--

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUSSSSSSSS.

2 Top 15 prospects for a broken-down outfielder? Incredible. Beane has his mojo back.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 14, 2008 3:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

yeah beane

pwned those n00bs

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Jan 14, 2008 3:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So what can we get for . . .

. . . a broken down pitcher, Harden?

Jim

by jarforcefatherofforce on Jan 14, 2008 8:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Until

We find out that someone planted very elusive bone chips in each of their shoulders.

What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Jan 15, 2008 7:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Favorite Kotsay moments
  1. ALCS HR
  1. Just now when he got traded.

Woooooooooooooooooo!

It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Jan 14, 2008 3:24 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I liked impossible catches in the power alleys

But those are a thing of the past.

LawDaddy's Signature

by JediLeroy on Jan 14, 2008 3:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

*ALDS
It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Jan 14, 2008 3:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Can you throw in

that sweet little fake out flip to 2nd he pulled in Toronto?  

"Don't be an ass!" --Bill King

by batgirl on Jan 14, 2008 3:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

wasn't that seattle?
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Jan 14, 2008 3:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

shoving Swish out of the way for a flyball

(That was Swish, right?)

Believe it or not, it felt wonderful when blood spurted out. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 14, 2008 3:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah.
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Jan 14, 2008 3:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought it was Swisher.

That was when he waved him off in right center and then gunned out the guy tagging up from third for the inning ending double play.

Didn't he then proceed to go nuts in the dugout between innings and spark a nice little run by the team?

by mikev on Jan 14, 2008 3:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

(well, waved him off, not shoved him)
I think it was this game against the ChiSox:

Konerko flied into a double play [Iguchi out at home (center to catcher)]


Later in the game the A's comeback was helped by Jermaine Dye completely missing an easy fly ball, also in right-center field.
"Tomorrow it may rain." - Leo Durocher

by andeux on Jan 14, 2008 3:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i do remember one game i was at

Kotsay caught the ball in deep left center and launched it to 1st to double the guy off, amazing.

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Jan 14, 2008 3:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Always loved his swing.
It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Jan 14, 2008 3:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Watching those clips depressed me

Every player featured in 06' highlights is on another team now (except Street but that statement could be true later) AND there won't be many moments like that in 08'.

That being said, great deal by BB.

A's all the way in 08 . . . oh never mind!

by micdog2001 on Jan 14, 2008 5:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

:(

watching that made me sad too.

that season seems soooo long ago.

by gotgreen on Jan 14, 2008 6:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I really have to say

That the 2006 Athletics team, is one of my faviort A's teams of all time. Its in my top 5 for sure, that was just a devastating team, I still think that they should have won the series that year.

"I Will Not Relent, I Am Driven"... Clutch
Bring Back The Bash!!!

by Shippee33 on Jan 14, 2008 7:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll never forget that moment.

I was sitting in my drummer's house, getting ready for the start of our tour, taking me bitterly away from playoff baseball.  Everyone was outside loading up the van.  I was glued to the tv.  I leaped up screaming and was swinging my right arm like I was Wash waving Kots home.

One of the top A's moments ever.  I remember thinking how cool it was that Kendall and Kotsay scored on that play, with all that was made about their playoff woes.  I really thought they were doing it that year.

It's Rhodes Scholar Night at the Coliseum tonight.

by Scottbass on Jan 14, 2008 11:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Throwing out Manny

I went to a game at Fenway Park in 2006.  The A's had a lead, and the Red Sox were rallying when Kotsay threw out Manny Ramirez trying to take third on a single up the middle.  Perfect throw, rally over, A's win.  Great day.

by kenarneson on Jan 14, 2008 4:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Kotsay ended our downslide in 2005

On Memorial Day, 2005, Kotsay hit a game-ending single to complete a comeback (against the D-Rays, IIRC) at the Coliseum, ending a miserable May and starting the hot streak that lasted for the next couple of months.

I was working at the office until about 3:00 in the morning and was jumping up and down and cheering when I saw the "Run-scoring play" on Gameday.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 14, 2008 4:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

dude i remember that!

kotsay was saying how they would try to ride off the momentum from the win.

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Jan 14, 2008 4:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Things was bleak that evening. Didn't Watson

get an improbable 2-out hit to keep the game alive?  

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 14, 2008 4:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't remember

The only memory I have of Watson was the homer he hit to LC in Atlanta.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 14, 2008 5:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hotsy Kotsay!...

...as my girlfriends & I used to say!
Will miss you, Mark. Good luck and say hello to Timmy!

by luvsmrZ on Jan 15, 2008 3:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

the braves fans

are pissed

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Jan 14, 2008 3:27 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

i would be
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Jan 14, 2008 3:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

YES!

I was praying he would pass that physical.

by Hawk on Jan 14, 2008 3:30 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

GM Comments

"Mark is one of the most accomplished defensive center fielders in the game and is a true professional," general manager Frank Wren said in a statement. "We feel that we have added another quality baseball player to our club."

"Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo," said Oakland general manager Billy Beane, "hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!"

LawDaddy's Signature

by JediLeroy on Jan 14, 2008 3:32 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

{imputes occult meaning to Beane's comment}
Believe it or not, it felt wonderful when blood spurted out. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 14, 2008 3:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL. I think it means "fukkin'-a."
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 14, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

thanks for the laugh
Let's have our Piazza and eat the Cust too - SPWC

by closetasfan on Jan 14, 2008 3:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That Beane quote

Had me cracking up at work. Couldn't post then, but I was cracking up, picturing the man in his hawaiian shorts with both arms up.

Still am. I second that thanks.

by Kaiser99 on Jan 14, 2008 7:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I've always liked Kotsay

I liked him in SD, and I liked him as an A.  But we need to rid ourselves of injury prone players, and he had become a liability.  I'll still miss him in CF, though.

I'm surprised we got two players for him, especially anyone of the caliber of Devine.  Maybe Atlanta felt sorry about the outcome of the Hudson trade and wanted to throw us a bone?

Larry Davis is an All Star: Further proof that literally anything is possible.

by ZeroIndulgence on Jan 14, 2008 3:33 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Faint Praise

Unlike some other GMs Beane takes action to remedy mistakes. The Giants in contrast will hold on to the likes of Roberts and Wynn and hope for different results.

by NoeValley on Jan 14, 2008 3:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Unlike Billy Beane in '06 and '07 with Kotsay?
Believe it or not, it felt wonderful when blood spurted out. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 14, 2008 3:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

re

Somehow I'm doubting Billy is jumping up for joy that he just ate $5.5 million of contract.  Still, obviously, nice cleanup of a bad deal (which we almost all loved at the time.)  Good luck to Kotsay; he was great to watch before the injuries.

by 31Boots on Jan 14, 2008 3:43 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

That was 7.5 million spent and wasted

Kotsay would bring nothing to the table and most seemed to think that nobody would take him. To have the Braves assume at least a million and part with a prospect like Devine plus a fringe prospect... That's eff-ing A to me.

LawDaddy's Signature

by JediLeroy on Jan 14, 2008 3:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Anybody know when money changes hands?

And do these guys get paid on the first and sixteenth, in-season or year-round?  I'm assuming it's yes and year-round, but it would be interesting to be in-charge of cash management for the A's.    

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 14, 2008 4:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Funny you mention that...

I remember seeing a flier on the bulletin board in the A's clubhouse on a tour.  If I recall it detailed "payday" and advised players on responsible financial management of their money.  I found it incongruous with the salaries these guys are making....but then again, young males with cash in hand are something to behold.  They can't get rid of it fast enough....but there always seem to be young females around who do their best to help them out.  I also recall thinking how grateful I was for those very same girls overseas when I was overseas.  Same principle I suppose....just a larger scale.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jan 14, 2008 4:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Money does not change hands

between Oakland and Atlanta. Just money from each team to Kotsay.

The $325K is triggered by the trade, so we pay that to Kotsay right now. The rest is his salary for the 2008 season, which Oakland and Atlanta will now split 5:2.

(At work right now, I hope I'm remembering the numbers correctly.)

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 14, 2008 5:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

now that Kotsay is gone

Cust in center, i would definitely pay to see that.

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Jan 14, 2008 3:51 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Oh wow

Is that like paying to see the bearded lady, and the dude who swallows swords? I can never stomach those type of things.

Next stop-- jettison Dan Johnson and Huston Street

by jeffro on Jan 14, 2008 4:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Larry Davis administered the physical
Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Jan 14, 2008 4:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

QOTM!
"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick, 10/7/07

by doctorK on Jan 14, 2008 5:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+1
A's all the way in 08 . . . oh never mind!

by micdog2001 on Jan 14, 2008 5:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, Kotsay says he

..has never started hitting baseballs as early in the year as this January 2008, and his back has never felt this "great" since....??? Who knows??

I'd laugh my ass off if Kotsay turns it around and hits .320.  That would be poetic justice.  And, because he did give us A's fans some of those great moments recounted above, I do wish him the "best".

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Jan 14, 2008 10:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

He is heading to the national league.  I've got oddss I'd offer that he hits .300/.350/.450.  I don't have odds on how many game he does that.  

by ChrisCEIT on Jan 15, 2008 12:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well see

i think his back is like the business cycle, it's good for a few weeks, shitty for a few, so i think we got lucky lol

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Jan 14, 2008 4:04 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Devine not good news for Ziggy

how many spaces can there be for right-handed relievers who are better against righties because they throw from a low arm angle?

by vk on Jan 14, 2008 4:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Didn't you hear?

Right-handed relievers who are better against righties because they throw from a low arm angle is the "new Moneyball."

...

Seriously speaking, I think there's room on the roster for both of them if the A's care to make it. Of course, that would mean cutting bait on Calero.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 14, 2008 4:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Huston Street Traded

For fetus and embryo-- prospects have "infinite possibilities" says one minor league scout.

"I hope he arouses the fire that's dormant in the innermost recesses of my soul." - Ichiro on Matsuzaka

by ConditionOakland on Jan 14, 2008 4:43 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

and the dna of

reggie jackson

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Jan 14, 2008 4:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm actually happy on both sides

I'm an A's fan by heart and a Braves fan by proximity and I'm actually happy with both sides of this deal.  

Devine:
I think the Braves will end up regretting how they handled Devine, but it really did seem he needed a change of scenery.  I think the Braves front office and field management tend to "trust their eyes" and be thrown off by memories of high moments (bad or good), of which Devine had several seriously nasty ones.  Even then, the Braves bullpen is solid enough to probably not miss him.  For the A's, Devine does have the potential to be a solid reliever, but there are certainly some ifs there (is his head messed up?  does his stuff not translate to the bigs?).  It's certainly worth trading a season of Kotsay to find out.

Kotsay:
For the Braves - with last year's addition of Teixeira, the Braves don't need to replace Andruw's offense, just some of his defense.  If healthy, Kotsay does that.  Certainly worth the risk at $2M and a pitcher you are sour on (and a throw-in).  For the A's, they had to pay Kotsay this year, so may as well pay for the potential of future cheap bullpen help.  I'm skeptical Devine will be a stud, but since Kotsay had to be paid, it's worth finding out what he can do.  

I'll say Kudos to Beane for finding something worthwhile out of the money he had to pay Kotsay in '08, but I really don't think Wren got fleeced.  He filled a need without spending too much or committing to some FA long-term.  I'd rather this than sign the Cameron contract.

by Eric in Atlanta on Jan 14, 2008 4:44 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Cameron should be significantly above average

in center field for Milwaukee. Probably on the order of 1-2 wins better than average, since he's a slightly above average hitter and also a slightly above average defender.

Kotsay projects to be substantially below average as both a hitter and a fielder next season.

For starters, if you're in "win now" mode (and the Braves had better be, with Teixeira approaching either departure or gigabucks) you want players who are above average, not filler. It's just incorrect to say that the Braves "don't need to replace Andruw's offense." A run is a run. Scoring more of them is good. If they end up with the same offense (and, for hypothetical purposes, the same defense) as they had before trading for Teixeira, what was the point of the trade?

Throw in on top of this the fact that the Brewers have an option for Cameron (at basically market price) in 2009 with a low buyout AND that the Braves gave up talented prospects to get Kotsay, and I don't see how you can even compare the two deals. Milwaukee is far, far better off. The Braves went bargain-basement, and it's going to cost them.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 14, 2008 5:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I still see it as win-win

although I do think our win is larger than their win, which suggests Billy got the better of the price negotiation.

We were likely to cut Kotsay and eat his big contract anyway, so getting anything at all for him is an improvement.  By the same token, I think you have to admit the Braves were in the same position with Devine.  In spite of his promise, he had some really bad outings in Atlanta and was in great need of a change of scenery. Also, as I understand it, he's out of options, so they'd need to keep him on the 25-man roster or put him through waivers.  I think the Braves would be very hard-pressed to keep him on the roster all season, and I don't think he'd clear waivers, so basically they were in a position where they were going to have to get rid of him anyway, so at least they got something for it, the something being a chance to take a gamble that an once-good ailing veteran still has one more year in him.

The (small) win-win is because Atlanta has more to gain than we do from Kotsay's small chance of an upside, and we're in a better position than they are to carry a questionable reliever on the roster.

Either downside scenario is still a distinct possibility, in my opinion.  It wouldn't surprise me if halfway through the season the Braves give up on Kotsay and cut him entirely.  It also wouldn't surprise me if halfway through the season Devine is struggling enough that we're willing to risk putting him through waivers and some team more desperate than us nabs him.

In either case, the home team fans will complain: "See, that trade was a total bust"; but if they're both total busts then we're even. (Except we saved $1.15 million and got Jamie Richmond!)

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 14, 2008 10:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Devine's not out of options

This is a common misconception. He has a fourth option remaining because he was promoted to the majors so fast.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 15, 2008 8:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks.

That makes a huge difference.  A lot of the posters on the Atlanta threads were assuming he is out of options.

Based on that, I now join with the majority that says we totally swindled the Braves with this deal. Keep Devine in AAA most of the year, bring him up only when he's ready.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 15, 2008 10:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

braves blog on richmond

http://www.talkingchop.com/story/200...

12 Jamie Richmond, RHP - When I met him last year at spring training I was a little stunned that he seemed to have a smaller frame than he's listed at - 6-3, 190 lbs. Add to that he looks like he's skin and bones, so certainly there is a lot of room for him to grow into his frame (if he is indeed that tall). Ever since then I haven't been as high on him as I was last year when he dominated the Appy League; at least not until he fills out. Of course, I'm starting to discount the stats Braves prospects put up in the Appy League a little. Nonetheless, Richmond got off to a tough start at Rome, part of that may have been due to the really cold weather last April, but it could also have been a bit of a shock reaction to the competition level. He settled down in the following months and finished with a decent 3.05 ERA. He'll be at Myrtle Beach next year, and that will be the real test to see if he is a legit prospect.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 14, 2008 4:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'm a fan of all these

pitchers Beane's racking up.  5 from Swish/Haren, 4 more from Scutaro/Kotsay.

Not that the Kotsay/Scutaro group contains any major prospects, but you never know.  TINSTAAPP.

At this point last year, Fautino De Los Santos was all but unheard of, even within the White Sox organization.  You can never have too many of these guys.

by BWH on Jan 14, 2008 7:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I love the deal

I think Kots will be happy in Hotlanta' and I'm interested to see what we get out of Devine and J-Rich 11.......I do however wonder if Street gets a safe pass on the trading block at this point. We have so many arms already and he is still only 24???

Anyways, adios Mark! We loved ya while you were here and you were a class act mate!

Cheers! Go A's!!

by mrod on Jan 14, 2008 5:02 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

all the Braves bloggers/commenters ...

... already hate Kotsay more than any of us here ever did.

Believe it or not, it felt wonderful when blood spurted out. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 14, 2008 5:06 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

They sure do.

It would be an incredible comeback if Kots does anything for the Braves this year, and the Talking Chop posters appear to be horribly depressed. (It's a good read if you have a moment.) But at least he and Huddy can chum up and hee-hee-ha-ha around the clubhouse.

It would be incredibly sad if he showed up to their Fanfest on crutches, though.

by Mark H on Jan 14, 2008 5:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jeez

Someone get Frank Wren on the phone. Given what he gave up for Kotsay, I figure we could get their entire AA team for Harden.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 14, 2008 9:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The other threads on Talking Chop

are more balanced. Still more against the trade than for it, but a significant minority defends the trade.

I really liked this lengthy post.  Ultimately the guy is against the trade, but he does a great job analyzing it from the front office's perspective.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 14, 2008 11:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice to see some fond memories

of Kotsay in this thread.

We're all glad he's gone, but he had some great moments here in years past.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 14, 2008 5:11 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Let's not forget Kotsay's

incredible AB in front of Milty's walk-off HR on AN Day.

And then let's forget Kotsay. Because to err is human; to get too much back in a trade Devine.

Great trade for the A's, IMO.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 14, 2008 5:12 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I thought the problem was not enough back n/t
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 14, 2008 5:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ditto that on the pre-Milty PA

That was the sort of thing I was talking about last week where I asserted that Kotsay had/has the ability to be selective ("selectively selective") and to force a pitcher to throw lots of pitches in a given PA; he just chose not to most of the time. (And who knows, maybe it wasn't a "repeatable skill" in the sense that he couldn't sustain that level of concentration/effort/achievement across mutliple PAs.)

Believe it or not, it felt wonderful when blood spurted out. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 14, 2008 5:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I knew it was coming

Partly because I was looking for a way to work it in

LawDaddy's Signature

by JediLeroy on Jan 14, 2008 5:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And for Harden we can get

Devimmen and Desong?

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 14, 2008 10:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This seems

To possibly make up for the hosing in the Tim Hudson deal?

by zachmiller on Jan 14, 2008 5:40 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Best of luck, Mark

May you have so much success in Atlanta that we start to second-guess this trade!

Beane went on to liken the Winter Meetings to pet hamsters who eat their young.

by Englishmajor on Jan 14, 2008 5:55 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Agree

I don't believe that enough people have come back from back injuries to "project" Kotsay as having a "sub-par" year in 2008.  He says he feels "great", and it's not like he's 39.

Now, his back is 49, but....8^0

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Jan 14, 2008 10:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+ a bunch
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Jan 15, 2008 7:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m having trouble with the idea

that this is a Beane master stroke, because I can’t separate the miracle well rescue from having fallen in in the first place.  I mean, I’m glad the A’s got some value from that which we thought was valueless, relative to a straight DFA, and I understand the sunk cost concept.  And perhaps a good GM needs a closer’s mentality, not letting yesterday’s blown deal influence tomorrow’s opportunity.  But the shackles of the Kotsay contract were a prison of Beane’s own device.

Let me mix in another metaphor.  If I were President and racked up a trillion dollar national debt in my first seven years, I’m not sure how widely I should be praised for recouping a $100 billion surplus in year eight.

Edging his way along the crowded paths of life, putting a Milo on all human sympathy and feeling the richer for it.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jan 14, 2008 6:09 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

1 year, 2 million deal for kotsay

Put it this way- we convinced Atlanta to give us 2 decent prospects for the right to sign Kotsay to a 1 year, 2 million dollar contract.

The kotsay contract was bad, no doubt. The trade is good.

contract = bad
trade = good
contract + trade > contract.

So the trade was a good move by Beane, but you can still have issues with the Kotsay contract (which by the way, looks worse in hindsight, but at the time, made sense in my opinion).

by ohmangoAs on Jan 14, 2008 11:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, Beane made a mistake

Every GM has made mistakes.

He has now finally fixed that mistake.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jan 15, 2008 12:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

are you saying that Beane had an ...

... Ace in the Hole?

Believe it or not, it felt wonderful when blood spurted out. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 15, 2008 8:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That would explain the Devine pickup

because he's Wilder.

They hung a sign up in our town: "If you live it up, you won't live it down."

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jan 15, 2008 9:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

At the risk of an inapposite poker metaphor,

The Kotsay move was a bad bet. Beane risked a lot of chips (dollars) on a hand which could go wrong in a lot of ways.

Sometimes the most important decisions in poker involve when to fold your cards, and Beane managed to fold Kotsay before it became too late. And-- an added bonus, since this is not actually a poker game-- he got to pull some of his chips back out of the pot in the form of the two Braves relievers!

The analogy may not be exact, but the mentality really is. The good GM has to treat every transaction like a separate event. A hand that was great three cards ago, or a player that was great three years ago, can lose its effectiveness, and you can't be swayed by how much money you invested in it (him) when you're deciding whether to cut bait.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 15, 2008 9:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah -- in most deals, sunk costs shouldn't ...

... affect knowing "when to fold 'em."  Ego gets in the way of rationality -- there's a pretty good book on that and other negotiating traps called "Negotiating Rationally" by Max Bazerman.  Not a baseball book per se, but applicable to baseball deals.  

Billy overbet on Kotsay, but at least that didn't prevent a relatively timely fold.    

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 15, 2008 10:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

{pitches 'Negotiating Poetically' to publisher}
Believe it or not, it felt wonderful when blood spurted out. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 15, 2008 10:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Langerhans

I realize that Langehans has nothing to do with this trade, or anything really.  

But I like to think that Beane was setting the Braves up, taking away a possible option that the Braves had for CF just so he could trade Kotsay to them.

Damn, Billy is one crazy mo-fo of a genius.

What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Jan 15, 2008 11:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i think beane is a great GM

but that is just ridiculous on so many levels.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 15, 2008 11:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or is it?
What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Jan 15, 2008 12:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, it is.

Nice conspiracy theory, though.  monkeyball'd be proud.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Jan 15, 2008 12:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Monkeyball'd

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 15, 2008 12:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Then can you explain why...

Brandon Buckley is at my door, dressed in all black, wearing dark sunglass, and...

What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Jan 15, 2008 3:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't mind xx -- he's just venting his ...

... pancreas.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 15, 2008 3:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

good luck with the braves, kotsay!

i will miss you!

with you and huddy in atlanta, i will have to start watching some more braves games!

by gotgreen on Jan 14, 2008 6:11 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Really??!!

I kind of liked watching some of those games (but usually with Huddy pitching, or Ryan Howard batting).

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Jan 14, 2008 10:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Big Kotsay fan

I hate to see him go. I was hoping he would produce for the A's this year and prove all the haters wrong. Best to Kotsay in Atlanta.

by Reg on Jan 14, 2008 6:11 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

"haters"

may be a little much...more like disappointed people that wanted to see him succeed, but his back just...well...held him back.

"He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Jan 15, 2008 9:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Kotsay's inside-the-park HR in 2006 ALDS

http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/med...

It was a great moment for me about Kots.

Bill (Beane) is like the dog, he going to the bathroom. -Tony LaRussa on Billy Beane and a lost dog at the Coliseum on CBS 5 News story.

by pachydermOAFC on Jan 14, 2008 6:25 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Saw that on TV at work...

...and I made the loudest "silent screams" one can make.  That's a thank you, Kots.

"[Moneyball] is huge [in Japan], I guess, so I'm like a David Hasselhoff type or something..." -- Billy Beane

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Jan 14, 2008 6:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that was so awesome!

thanks for the sweet memories.

by luvsmrZ on Jan 15, 2008 4:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Goodbye Kots

I'll always remember the inside the parker in 06 that broke the curse!

by eastbayexpat on Jan 14, 2008 6:33 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Kotsay's back feels much better...

...because it's not going to Japan now.

I'm particularly interested to see how Joey Devine does in Oakland after his rough times in Atlanta.

"[Moneyball] is huge [in Japan], I guess, so I'm like a David Hasselhoff type or something..." -- Billy Beane

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Jan 14, 2008 6:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I can't find

the video of Scutaro's double at home that drove the crowd nuts. If anyone can find a good quality (non-youtube) video I'd be very appreciative.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Jan 14, 2008 7:15 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

note Kotsay's

very classy comments from Atlanta. I think he'll be missed (not to say that the trade was anything but the right move).

by skutch on Jan 14, 2008 7:17 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

so long, Kotsay

It wont be too long before men throughout Atlanta begin proclaiming their uncomfortable man-crushes on Mark Kotsay. That is, of course, until his back spasms return.

He's your problem now, Atlanta!!!

by Jeremy Belvins on Jan 14, 2008 7:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

and having just read this upon

arriving home from work this evening in Alaska. I will have a moment of silence for Kotsay.....okay, I'm good.

count-down to ST.

by ak_A on Jan 14, 2008 7:34 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Happy Happy Joy Joy

I'm not one to speak ill of the dead (that's a blatant lie, actually), but I am glad this deal went through.

Three days ago I said this in response to the Kotsay speculation, "If they can get somebody like Devine for him, that would be incredible. I'd be fine with Kris Medlen or Jamie Richmond."

I almost screamed tonight in class when, on break, I went to mlb.com and saw the A's got Devine AND Richmond. I'm giddy right now. Disgustingly giddy. This almost makes up for the winter depression caused by losing Swish.

by thejd44 on Jan 14, 2008 8:04 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Richmond Info

I dug out some info...

Richmond is an interesting prospect, but not one of the Braves top 10 guys. He was a very late (36th round) pick in 2004, a draft-and-follow guy who the Braves have apparently seen enough of to give up on. Since the Braves are usually pretty good at cutting pitchers loose, the signs are not great.

His minors work has been good, but not exceptional. He's a control pitcher, no overpowering fastball and only serviceable breaking stuff. He's good around the strike zone, though, and apparently does not rattle easily. He finessed himself to the Appalachian League pitcher of the year award in 2005, as a sometime starter and sometime reliever. In 2006-2007 he was used as a starter almost exclusively and did well. His 2007 season in Rome, he allowed 141 hits in 139 innings with 99:25 strikeouts/walks. He apparently has good mound presence/composure.

He's not likely to break as much more than a back-end or spot-starter, but even the small chance he has to be a #3 guy makes him a great freebie throw-in for the A's.

www.ScoutingBook.com: Baseball's Best Prospects Ranked, Closer Situations Tracked, and other Fantasy Tools. Updated daily!

by scoutingbook on Jan 14, 2008 8:58 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Control Numbers

Are absolutely absurd. His GB rate seems OK, but he will probably give up more and more HR as he ascends through the minors. As a throw in, in a deal for a player like Kotsay, he's great. He looks kinda like Jason Glushon on steroids.

Of course Devine is the real bread basket of the deal, I'm confident that he'll overcome the command issues that plagued him in his first couple of go-rounds and become an extremely effective reliever, either paving the way for a solid late inning combo of Devine/Street, or a bounty to be brought in by trading the latter.

by Sigur Ros on Jan 14, 2008 10:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sad to see Kotsay go. Classy guy,

great ball player, just a shame about the back injury.

Unfortunately he didn't have a future here - the money wasn't an issue, it was more to do with him taking at bats away from other players.

All the best, Mark, let's hope you recover somewhat from the back surgery and put up some decent numbers....and of course play a mean centrefield.

by OldhamA on Jan 15, 2008 12:05 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

We lost two

of the hottest player wives in baseball this offseason. Root Beer Float day and Giants wives vs. A's wives day is ruined. Farewell to our ALCS heroes Kotsay and Scutaro.

by paul75 on Jan 15, 2008 12:31 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

no kidding

grover, do a prospect wives diary...

"He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Jan 15, 2008 9:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

TNSTAAPW

The prospects aren't married yet.  How hot a wife they get depends on how well they succeed at the game.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 15, 2008 10:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And obviously

almost-hot women aren't smart enought to get in on the ground on floor when the pickings are easy.

What are they going to do...send you to baseball jail?

by methodrampage on Jan 15, 2008 11:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

so true...
unless they're mormon or something.

/dodges lightning bolt

President of the Joey Devine fan club as of 1/15/08. Accepting applications for other positions. "He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Jan 15, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

tacky
LawDaddy's Signature

by JediLeroy on Jan 16, 2008 9:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, sure

That research would end in my divorce.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Jan 15, 2008 1:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Three new A's wives were signed in the offseason.

If their husbands stay with the team, you should evaluate Mrs. Crosby, Mrs. Blanton and Mrs. Street before you make any final judgments...

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Jan 15, 2008 10:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

the metaphor needs work
  • dating = drafted
  • engaged = signed
  • married = arbitration clock is ticking
Believe it or not, it felt wonderful when blood spurted out. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 15, 2008 12:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

For the 5 million the A's are paying...

We get to keep Jamie Kotsay.

I'm not a big wine guy... Where do you grow the BEER?

by str8tarrow on Jan 15, 2008 6:31 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'm running out of A's t-shirts to wear.
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Jan 15, 2008 7:14 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

i still wear

my hudson spring training jersey, and my mcgwire powerball world tour shirt...you'll be okay. it kinda feels like honoring the memory.

"He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Jan 15, 2008 9:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Billy's trying to get you topless
Believe it or not, it felt wonderful when blood spurted out. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 15, 2008 12:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Jan 15, 2008 1:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll still wear my Swisher jersey

Especially when I go to Comiskey to see the A's play the Sox this year. I'll be rooting for the A's, but I still support my guy.

by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2008 12:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

{Urban speed-dials all 25+y.o.s on the roster}
Believe it or not, it felt wonderful when blood spurted out. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 15, 2008 8:30 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Billy just traded himself for two three-year olds

in the Danville Montessori Preschool across from the Blackhawk Grill.  He IS back!

"It was OK," Swisher said. "I got the shoulder down, but I didn't wrap. You gotta wrap and drive."

by LAXile on Jan 15, 2008 3:09 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Player Wives

How hot a wife they get depends on how well they succeed at the game.

How does this explain Aaron Boone exactly?

www.ScoutingBook.com: Baseball's Best Prospects Ranked, Closer Situations Tracked, and other Fantasy Tools. Updated daily!

by scoutingbook on Jan 16, 2008 12:23 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Ahem

That link just might be NSFW.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Jan 16, 2008 1:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

please this is family website.
We should sign Aaron Boone to a multi-year contract.

by paul75 on Jan 16, 2008 9:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Gasp

No one should ever utter the words "We should sign Aaron Boone to a multi-year contract" on a family website.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Jan 16, 2008 9:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Jan 16, 2008 2:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Meh

naked + big fake breasts =/= hot

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Jan 18, 2008 5:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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