Is Scutaro the next to go?
by gotgreen on Aug 19, 2007 1:23 AM PDT
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PrintSusan Slusser's newest article makes me very sad.
She says in that article that unlike other years when one of the infielders went down with an injury and Scutaro became a starter during that time, Scutaro was told by Geren that he would NOT be a starter right now even with Crosby and Chavez down for a while.
Scoot then requested a meeting with Billy and Billy confirmed that he would not be playing every day.
"I didn't get any answers,'' Scutaro said. "He just said that things aren't working right now, and they're trying to look for something. He told me not to worry about it, I'll be in the big leagues for a while.''
It makes sense that BB and Geren want to give Hannahan and Murphy a chance to show what they can do but where does that leave our little Venezuelan?
Susan said:
Hannahan and Murphy might be cost-effective options next season compared with Scutaro, who is arbitration eligible and who could be looking at $2 million or more in salary were Oakland to tender him a contract. It's also somewhat possible that, because the A's already know what Scutaro can do, they are taking long looks at the others with the idea that Scutaro might be a cheaper alternative than Mark Ellis at second or Crosby at short.Or perhaps the A's might move Scutaro, if he has cleared waivers. They've already sent away two players (Joe Kennedy and Adam Melhuse) who were arbitration eligible, and they've parted ways with four potential free agents, too.
Scutaro over Ellis at 2B?? NOOO!
So what do you guys think the A's should do with Scutaro?
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It's Part of Being a GM...
Data over emotion. The team over the individual. We like Scoot too, but he's never going to be a full-time leader of a team, and if you can pay $300k vs. $2M and get the same or better results, it makes sense.
*sigh*
i know. i would make a terrible GM because i would never be able to let go of my favorite players even if they suck.
I hear you.
I'd have to have an active roster of about 60.
attached...
I saw this guy in Buffalo in AAA, and I've obviously been a fan while he's been with Oakland. Call it what you will, but he's had so many, uh, "important" hits in the late innings. That said, he's not very good as a regular. I'm surprised he's lasted this long, especially with this regime. When he departs, it will be the right move.
Scutaro in Buffalo
Amongst memorabilia from the likes of Sexson, Burnitz, Sizemore and other famous future Indians, a framed, autographed Marco Scutaro bat still sits in Pettibone's Grill at Dunn Tire Park in Buffalo.
by RyanFromBonas on Aug 20, 2007 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions
dude
I'm going to have to check that out. Haven't been to that place since my last Bisons game, which has been a few years now. Anytime I drive by the stadium while a game is going on, or when I catch highlights on the news, DTP looks empty. I wonder what kind of average actual attendance they're getting, because it sure looks like you could sit in the first row along either baseline (or behind home plate) for any game. Seems like there's no interest anymore.
by Cutthemullet on Aug 20, 2007 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
He is a back up
Scot is a backup Everbbody already knows this. He will be a back up with us or traded to another team
by scottofchico on Aug 19, 2007 2:58 AM PDT reply actions
translation?
"things aren't working right now, and they're trying to look for something"
Crosby and/or Chavez aren't working right now (not just injured, not working right now) and they're trying to look for a replacement for next year for one or both?
Scutaro is a 30 year
old utility player with poor stats, he is gone now that he costs too much money, it makes me sad also but that is a reality. Scutaro has no upside, there is always the chance that Murphy or Hannahan might have.
Interesting article by Kawakami in the SJ Merc. about his discussion with BB and how BB talks about a complete overhaul of the A's in the near future, read an overhaul after this season is over thankfully.
I can see a complete change in the roster by next season. The pitching staff will be pretty much in tact, but the position players will be moved, I doubt if Ellis is one of them.
by china bob on Aug 19, 2007 8:30 AM PDT reply actions
Thnaks for the link, grover
That article gives me more hope than anything this year (including--so, especially--the "same old same old" replies to questions at AN Day). Here Beane seems willing to concede that the team DOES need to reflect on all the injuries, and that the status quo DOESN'T contain the building blocks for success.
One thing Beane is good--no GREAT--at is making deals for just the right pieces. From Haren and Barton (and yes, Meyer at the time), to Gaudin and Cust, once Billy decides "I need a SS" or "I need a power hitter," I trust him to make the right gambles.
GO FOR IT, BILLY!
huh
Beane seems to have done a 180 from his comments on AN Day regarding the A's injuries.
Perhaps we got to him after all!
Is a transcript of those comments
from AN day, or maybe a video/audio recording, available anywhere on this site or elsewhere? Thanks.
by Bleeding the Green and Gold on Aug 19, 2007 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't see the pitching staff remaining intact
That's the only place where we have value to work with to get any pieces we need (see potential deadline deal with Blanton). Any rebuilding project he does will likely be another Hudson/Mulder trade deal. Cross your fingers that it's a Mulderesque type.
I think Scutaro's inability to play 3B decently
is his undoing with the 2008 A's. Chavy's deterioration has created a need for a utility infielder who can handle 3B and Scutaro can't. Ironic in that Scutaro is the A's most versatile fielder, having filled in competently at 2B, SS, and the OF. But he can't handle 3B for whatever reason and I think that is why he'll be gone in 2008. If he could just play 3B as well as he plays SS I think he'd be back even if his salary jumped a bit, due to his tremendous versatility.
It's unfortunate that
they aren't using Murphy/Hanny in multiple positions to really test their utilitiness.
I'd love to see that, too
I find it interesting that Beane's A's only ever seem to move the worst athletes/fielders around from position to position, rather than developing the best athletes/fielders into multi-position-capable players.
Has Murphy ever played 3B?
If not, they might be planning on giving him some time there in Spring Training '08, rather than letting him explore a steep learning curve (and possible mess with his hitting) in his first extensive ML opportunity.
I could very well see the scenario being
Murphy replacing Scutaro as "super-sub" at 2B, SS, and 3B, and either Crosby or (hopefully) a new SS as the everyday starter at SS.
That could well be the plan
Unless he's worse on-balance defensively than Scutaro (e.g., unable to play 3B and bad, not just okay, at 2B) I think that's the way to go next year.
Hopefully with Crosby
winding up a Tigers--or an anything-but-A's--SS, and Oakland introducing the "A's next SS" on Opening Day, 2008.
I would have thought
you'd prefer that Crosby be a Dodger, perferrably for another young SS.
Who?
<sits back and waits>
Exactly, ...
Hu.
by RyanFromBonas on Aug 20, 2007 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
3B Back-up
I think right handed bat, competent glove back-up for Chavez is essential. To those who are anxious to move Chavy I think it is too soon to write him off. If he can get 1 game/week off we could see a return to form. It won't be his peak but it would likely be above league average and more than he fetches in a trade. I fear a Jermaine Dye-like career revival if Chavy is traded.
by NoeValley on Aug 19, 2007 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
That is so true
unfortunately Hannahan has not impressed too much with his range at 3rd either. I am always willing to wait on a young guys hitting to come around but seems to me that fielding shows itself right away. I can hardly wait until the winter season to see what BB does.
by china bob on Aug 19, 2007 9:42 AM PDT reply actions
If you have a GM who
we all know wants to continue runnig BoCro out there at SS, he will keep Murphy as Scutaro's replacement. (and backup to Ellis) He is younger and will be cheaper next year too.
We all know he he will eventually be the starter next year when BoCro goes on the DL. The A's will then sign someone who has been forgotten by the rest of the league as a backup or at that time maybe you bring up a rookie backup like Petit for Murphy. It is all abt cost and the A's won't fork out 2 mil for Scoot.
by Hawk on Aug 19, 2007 9:49 AM PDT reply actions
anyone else think it's a bad sign that ...
... Scutaro felt he needed a meeting with Beane to confirm that he wouldn't be starting?
On the one hand, yes, it's nice that he observed the chain of command -- and that Geren spoke to him directly.
But when my manager gives me a new assignment, I suck it up and do it, I don't go over the manager's head to "confirm" the assignment.
< Nico calls monkeyball into office, reassigns monkeyball to Kane County front-page duties; monkeyball complains to Blez, who confirms demotion >
And I'm not saying this in a "Scutaro's a clubhouse cancer" way -- more of a "there's a problem with the clubhouse/front office when this sort of thing is what players do as a matter of course."
I understand what you're saying,
and in a normal type of working environment I absolutely believe its a practice that should be adhered to. On the other hand, Geren is delivering an operational message to Scooter about his day to day role with the team. I don't think Scoot was challenging Geren's ability to make that kind of decision. I do think that he was concerned about his long term role with the team and that that sort of information could only be provided by Beane. In other words, Geren told him what his job was going to be for now, but it was necessary for him to speak with Beane in order to find out his long term future with the A's. That's not the kind of information Geren would have in an organization like the A's. I imagine he met with Beane with Geren's blessing.
well the premise of moneyball is
manager is simply a middle manager, so wanting to talk to Beane, while unusual in baseball, seems sensible from the A's philosophy
Also Scoot knows that Beane holds the cards to his future, so it makes sense from that standpoint
Not typical baseball protocol, but seems reasonable from an A's standpoint. I guess my question is, is that philosophy in itself flawed.
if scutaro goes im not an A's fan
he means more to the A's then lot of the players.
by green and gold bruh on Aug 19, 2007 10:46 AM PDT reply actions
Why Wait?
IMHO if your allegiance to the A's, or any other team, is based on a single player you are not a fan of the team.
by NoeValley on Aug 19, 2007 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
problem is, Billy's the one with ...
... an allegiance to "single" hitters: Kotsay, Kendall, Stewart, Scutaro, Piazza ...
We don't know that about Piazza--
he may be in a, um, committed relationship.
YUUUUP
thats right. Scutaro is better then murpy or hannahan BY FAR
by green and gold bruh on Aug 19, 2007 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude, as A's fan...
you should know by now that everything has a beginning, a middle, and an end. This is true in life in general, but especially true with this team and its players. We are approaching the point where Scoot has snatched the pebble from Billy's hand....(2M), so Grasshopper, it's time for him to go. Apparently you too.
scutaro
means more to the A's then anyone.
by green and gold bruh on Aug 19, 2007 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions
alox is right.
For example, this sentence has a beginning, a middle, and
come on neex
you cant tell me its a coincidence what scoot has done. He's clutch, hes always ready and hes a gamer. You can try to insert a joke but you know its true.
by green and gold bruh on Aug 19, 2007 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I never said he isn't clutch,
or that he isn't ready, or that he isn't a gamer. But he means more to the team than Danny Haren? No.
over his career
yes! he has bruh
by green and gold bruh on Aug 19, 2007 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
that is laughable
That said, it is more important to think in terms of 2008. Is Scutaro more imporant than is Haren to the team in 08?
Serious?
by Athletics fan and runner on Aug 19, 2007 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
no
but career as an A. Definetly scoot.
by green and gold bruh on Aug 19, 2007 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
no way
Scutaro has had his share of clutch hit and then some. But a replacement could be found on the scap heap at any point in his oakland run. The same could not be said for haren, even in his worse season as an Athletic.
by Athletics fan and runner on Aug 20, 2007 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Prediction
Scutaro will have a longer and ultimately more successful career than Crosby.
wanna bet?
Cros is basically Rich Aurilia with better range and a better arm: he's got the arm and the athleticism and timing to play SS, 3B, or any of the OF positions (to extend his career as a 1-/2-year-contract fill-in utility guy), and the height and glovework to play 1B. Plus, he's got better native power than Scutaro and is 4.5 years younger.
Scutaro is basically Neifi Perez with better ability (that is, any) to pivot on an inside fastball.
I'm as frustrated as anyone else by Crosby's inability to learn better plate discipline or to stay healthy, but I think we've gone a bit overboard in overstating his problems.
That said, unless he does get his shit together, Crosby is heading straight for Aurilia's career progression.
I agree on Crosby, but think you're
being a bit extreme on Scutaro. There is no lower you can go than Neifi Perez, so if you say "rich man's" Neifi you're saying he's rich man's garbage. Scutaro is an excellent 2Bman who has been playing out of position for 2 years. Offensively, he is not as good as many A's fans think, but he's your basic .240/.300 hitter with a little power and strangely impressive ability to convert his few hits to RBIs and even huge RBIs. Not a good hitter, but not a really bad one either.
Excellent?
IMO Scutaro is not an excellent 2B. He got a very extended look there in 2004 and there was a fair bit left to be desired. There were a lot of DPs that should have been started/turned that didn't happen that year and they weren't all with McLemore playing 2B. Ellis is an excellent 2B, Scutaro may be adequate.
Sure!
Scutaro is a career .256\.318 hitter with an inordinate number of RBIs. He stays healthy, he puts himself on the field, and occasionally puts together a smart at bat. And, he has the mentality to do whatever it takes to help the team, in terms of playing positions.
Crosby is a career .240\.310 hitter who does not stay healthy, never puts together a smart at bat, and thinks of himself as an ML starting shortstop. We can even have a separate bet on whether we will EVER see Crosby playing an outfield position.
when crosby sucks they're about at the same level
but there's always the chance he'll figure out how to play baseball at the major league level eventually.
meanwhile scutaro is a halfway decent 31 year old backup infielder with nowhere to go but down.
Yes and no
IF Crosby ever figures the elusive "it" out, then yes, he has far more potential than Scutaro ever will.
However, failing that (and thus far, that has failed, completely and miserably), they may have near-equal abilities but Scutaro is the better ball player because he's better at making adjustments, understanding his abilities, not trying to do too much, etc. He's more versatile, he's less likely to make a mental error in the field, he's more likely to execute on fundamentals.
In a critical at-bat, I'd still take Scutaro over Crosby any day. There are plenty of players I'd take over Scutaro, but that's not the issue since Crosby is very clearly not one of them.
it makes perfect sense
the years scutaro became a regular after an injury were when the a's were in contention and needed a proven commodity to fill in.
this year the a's are out of contention and scutaro being a proven commodity ("backup infielder" and "32 next year") hurts him. the other guys like murphy and hannahan will be given a chance to play so they can be properly evaluated. and if they suck, well, this season is over already so it doesn't matter.
I'm not sure what to think...
On the one hand, I think people are reading way more into this than what's really there. Scutaro, my favorite current A's player, is a back-up and probably always will be a back-up. That's a known quantity. And the team feels the need to properly evaluate players who may become starters. I don't see that as strange at all. Potential salary jump notwithstanding, of course.
But, on the flip side, this quote bothers me...
"I didn't get any answers,'' Scutaro said. "He just said that things aren't working right now, and they're trying to look for something. He told me not to worry about it, I'll be in the big leagues for a while."
(Emphasis in bold mine) Maybe I'm reading more into this than I should, but he didn't say "with the A's", he said "in the big leagues".
The emphasis
Beane probably couldn't promise Scoot that he'd still be an Oakland A through the rest of the season. Some team could come calling, looking for a back-up infielder and they'd make an attractive bid for Scutaro. Does anyone really think that Beane wouldn't trade Scoot for a Grade A prospect at this point?
What Beane could do was to assure Marco that he wasn't going to get DFA'd before the season was over, that he was going to be on a big league roster (be it in Oakland or otherwise) for the remainder of the 2007 season.
Scoot has a family, he justed wanted to know that he wasn't going to lose his job in the next 6 weeks.
Excuse me
But when has Scutaro ever shown he's anything more than a capable backup? Don't get me wrong, I don't think Murphy's going to stick either, but I feel like if Scoot's actually going to make $2 Mil it wouldn't be a horrible idea to trade him.
by Nick86 on Aug 19, 2007 9:26 PM PDT reply actions
As an every day starter at SS
the second half of 2006, he certainly didn't stop us from getting to the ALCS. How much he helped is hard to say, but he certainly didn't prevent it--and he was playing at a key position.
yeah
He was really good for those three months. Don't get me wrong, he deserves to be in the bigs, but his performance in the second half of '06 seems to be the exception and not the rule (he's 31, and his career line is .256/.324/.365).
by Nick86 on Aug 19, 2007 9:34 PM PDT reply actions
I actually think he'd be a perfectly decent
starter at 2B for a lot of teams. A guy who will make all the plays, hit .250-.260 with occasional power, and come up with some big hits. He's just been playing out of position for so long, we've forgotten how good (not great) he is at 2B. And he's not a terrific hitter but he's not a bad one either.
if the A's let him go
which I would guess they wouldn't, I think he'll find a very welcoming team in Queens that would snap him up in a second
Really? A team in that area
had Marco Scutaro and let him go elsewhere because of some guy named Kaz.
And his career numbers, (to me), are gonna be difficult to really evaluate, as Marco has had more playing time with the A's than any of his previous teams.
Scutaro's value
He may be nothing more than a back-up infielder to us, but to the rest of the league ...
Ask any non-A's fan or casual A's observer who they think is the most clutch player on the team. I guarantee they say Scutaro. He's hit some big homeruns, as we all know, and they've been featured on Sportscenter quite a bit. Point is: his perceived value is higher than his actual value.
I love him too, but if you can get something useful for him, you gotta trade him. Value's at an all-time high.
most non-A's fans
...wouldn't know much about him, if anything. He's been lost in the shadow of David Eckstein for clutch overachievers.
by Cutthemullet on Aug 20, 2007 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions
The King of Versatility
Does anyone remember the venerable Mike Aldrete who played for the San Francisco Giants? Well, whenver the skipper called for him to play a position, Aldrete would always stand and deliver the goods. He never earned a moniker such as "slugger" or "bomber", but certainly could win the hearts and mind of the crowd because of his consistency. Scutaro certainly shares similiar attributes such as his Bay Area counterpart, Aldrete. Marco knows just how to play the game with pin point accuracy. He shows up to the park with a "put me in coach" attitude. He earns his money the old-fashioned way. He shows up.
Scutaro + Murphy + Ellis + Swisher = A shot at the playoffs
Stewart + Kotsay + Buck = Closer. Getting Closer
A's - Chavez - Crosby = Championship.
by wheels on Aug 20, 2007 8:55 PM PDT reply actions
Not anymore with Kotsay, IMO
And I was one of his very biggest supporters in 2004-05.
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