Kendall vs. No Kendall

by Durden on Aug 12, 2007 8:12 PM PDT Comment 43 comments

Although there seemed to be an intense hatred of Kendall, I was always one that was able to look past his pathetic offense to see the other intangibles that he brought to the team. Since the trade of Jason Kendall, the A's team era has risen by almost a full run. And with Suzuki's numbers just a pubic hair better than Kendall's. Are the A's better off with or without him? It seems that the pitching staff has been terrible since his trade and the Cubs end up on a hot streak. I'm not saying that he was going to catch them to the playoffs this year, but there was other dead weight that I think could have been traded instead (Kotsay, Kielty, Johnson, Kennedy, Crosby). I just want to see what others of you think.

Poll

Are the A's better with or without Kendall?

Better with Bowen

5 votes

Better with anyone but Kendall

61 votes

Better with Kendall

47 votes

Better with Suzuki

52 votes

165 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 43 comments

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Comments

Better without Kendall

This team is not going to the playoffs, and Kendall is not the catcher of the future, so it makes perfect sense to get a good look at Suzuki. The pitchers need to adjust to life without Kendall - he won't be here next year, so get used to it now.

by boilerdan on Aug 12, 2007 8:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Better overall with Kendall, but he had no...

...future here so it was the right time to move him. Getting Suzuki some experience with everyone prior to Spring Training next season will help more in the long run.

Bottom of the 9th - Baseball photojournalism by James Venes

by Flashfire on Aug 12, 2007 8:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I totally agree

"it's like an alarm clock, WOOT WOOT!" -Bubb Rubb

by secret ASian man on Aug 13, 2007 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

at this point, and even at the point of the season where we traded Kendall, it was becoming very clear that we were not going to make a repeat appearance in the ALCS. That being said, nothing makes more sense than getting some of the Vital pieces of the 2008 team ready sort of before their "Rookie" season. Sort of like Pre Algebra...lol. I just wonder where Daric is at???

"I Will Not Relent, I Am Driven"... Clutch

Bring Back The Bash!!!

by Shippee33 on Aug 12, 2007 8:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

With all the heat Beane

has been taking lately from AN...does anyone regret that he didn't give Kendall the extension that he wanted at the end of last season? I guess Beane knows what he's doing.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Aug 12, 2007 8:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Not that I'd slight Beane...

...but really, is there anyone within 80 miles of a baseball stadium anywhere in the world who would have extended Kendall on recent seasons form?

Russ Ortiz thinks that contract was nutty.

The Kendall Shift: 6 infielders and 2 catchers.

by Ozzz on Aug 12, 2007 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A lot of people on AN

If you read those diaries in the offseason.

I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Aug 14, 2007 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I still can't believe

Beane got Andrew Brown for Bradley.. I believe his fastball was clocked at 98mph?

Back to Kendall. The pitching staff was definitely better with him, but it was time to give KZ a chance. Our pitchers need to learn how to adjust. The move was a good one and Bowen might turn out to be a reliable back-up.

I think religion is a neurological disorder that prevents people from thinking on their own.--B. Maher

by sf drift king on Aug 14, 2007 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

as of today....

Kendall hitting .313 with the Cubs. Proves he doesn't belong in the AL.

by spartan21 on Aug 12, 2007 9:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

So what?

Rick Ankiel has hit 3 homers in 4 games since he got called up. He's not going to be threatening 73 anytime soon. Sample size matters.

by sprtsnwyn on Aug 13, 2007 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Considering Kendall was over .300 for his...

...career before coming to the A's, it's more likely that his struggles had something to do with the American League.

Either way, hitting .313 isn't abnormal for him overall. It just was here.

Bottom of the 9th - Baseball photojournalism by James Venes

by Flashfire on Aug 13, 2007 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hell before he came to the A's

he looked like he was on a path to the Hall of Fame.... You never know, I know ill get my head ripped off on AN for mentioning that, but hell if Kendall ends up with a career .300+ career average, and he breaks the record for all time games caught? Time will only tell... How many other catchers from his time are Hall bound? Piazza and Pudge is about all....

"I Will Not Relent, I Am Driven"... Clutch

Bring Back The Bash!!!

by Shippee33 on Aug 12, 2007 9:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The moral to this post

is that Kendall is 100% a national league player... And I still think he was better in Oakland than he ever got credit for, just not with his bat.... Id like to see how Blanton and Haren would look right now with Damien Miller as their catcher for the past 3 seasons....

"I Will Not Relent, I Am Driven"... Clutch

Bring Back The Bash!!!

by Shippee33 on Aug 12, 2007 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even if the Kendall with the Cubs is the

"real" Kendall, his HOF chances are going to suffer since his career does not compare favourably to Piazza or Pudge.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Aug 13, 2007 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

kendall hof

way cool thought. haven't heard anyone else mention it. without looking at bbref.com, i'm thinking not many cathers get in, anyway. in my lifetime, g carter( who, was undeserving, imho, and only made it cause of his mets exposure), bench, yogi, and now pudge (gold gloves the reason). i'm with you, if jk ends north of .300, he's gotta a real good shot. and imagine if cubbies could win this year or next with him at the helm. i miss his tangibles and his intangibles. i used to say about some hoopsters i coached - they can do everything on the court except shoot - so i play 'em - kendall could do everything for a's except hit...

jesus saves. and espo scores on the rebound.

by oakath on Aug 13, 2007 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

for me, Kendall was a lot like Eric Snow was to the Sixers a few years ago when they made that run to the NBA Finals. He did everything except shoot.

I think religion is a neurological disorder that prevents people from thinking on their own.--B. Maher

by sf drift king on Aug 14, 2007 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interestingly enough

your analogy is a perfect example of how Kendall is the exact opposite of the HoF.

by Dusty Baker on Aug 14, 2007 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kendall has no shot at the HOF

None. Zero. I'd lay some enormous odds on that one.
Also I don't see how you put Pudge in for "gold gloves the reason" when he is 2nd all time in HR's for a catcher.

by Dusty Baker on Aug 14, 2007 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah ...

if he had been able to maintain his 2004 production for another 3 or 4 years and then had a more typical decline he'd have had a decent shot ... at least of being deserving.

With the overall offensive numbers of the era he's played in, though, it's hard to imagine him making it without a bit more of a story to remember him for.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Aug 13, 2007 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

AHHHHHHH!

More troubling than your mentioning Kendall as a HOF candidate is the fact that all of the replies to your message generally AGREE WITH YOU! Could the world stop spinning, please? I'd like to get off.

To make the HOF, you need either 10 years of super-god-like excellence or 15 years of mere All-Star excellence. A lot of guys put together 10 years of mere excellence, are thought of as generally Hall-worthy, and then they fall into mediocrity and drop off the Hall radar completely. Roberto Alomar, for example. Others are excellent for even less time--consider Carlos Baerga, who was projected early on in his career to get 3000 hits.

But then, Kendall was never as good as Carlos Baerga. Even if he had been, even if I thought he was "on a path to the Hall" before he got traded to us (HE WASN'T--THEY NEVER WOULD'VE TRADED US A HOF'ER IN HIS PRIME FOR RHODES AND REDMAN), then his three lousy years with us would be more than enough to torpedo that candidacy.

"WTF is wrong with you people TASTELESS COMMENTS. I'm disgusted. Mocking a 10 year old's horrible painful death." --eshock

by rubin sierra on Aug 13, 2007 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

2 things

Catchers have never been proven to have any influence on pitchers' outcomes; indeed, everything suggests exactly the opposite, that any perceived difference in pitcher performance is strictly a matter of bad luck.

Even if Kendall did somehow work better with the pitchers, he wasn't coming back next year. Far better that the team get a look at Suzuki (and Bowen, I guess).

by PaulThomas on Aug 12, 2007 9:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I reject your first point outright.

At worst, to paraphrase Crash Davis, "If you think you're pitching well because you're wearing women's underwear, then you are pitching well because you're wearing women's underwear."

A good game-caller, at best, figures out a weakness in hitters for their pitcher, sells balls as strikes, and keeps the rough stuff from hitting the backstop.

A good game-caller, at worst, keeps the pitcher thinking he can beat anyone, and makes the opponent second guess himself.

The Kendall Shift: 6 infielders and 2 catchers.

by Ozzz on Aug 12, 2007 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

keeps the rough stuff from hitting the backstop

I thought that's what tarping off the whale was supposed to do.

Witty and charming people can produce prose of sneering sententiousness @('.')@

by monkeyball on Aug 13, 2007 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kendall basically was

Joe Blanton's panties out there...

"We are all gods. You can never underestimate the creative potential of a human being. Nor the destructive potential."- Robert Pollard, GbV

by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Aug 13, 2007 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I miss Kendall

I totally understand and pretty much agree with the decision to move Kendall, both for the team's sake and his, but I miss that guy. I'm new here on AN, so I'll tell you he was my favorite player when he was here. Besides his catching skills, he was no nonsense, gritty, and a leader. And even when my love was waivering this year with his horrendous offense, he went and hit a homer on my birthday...how do you not love that?

What's missing from this team in 2007 that was so palpable last year, (mostly due to the injuries, which led to all the other moves), are chemistry and confidence. Kendall, Thomas, Payton, Bradley...they brought that last year. And although the reasons for getting rid of those guys are valid, you can't just replace that stuff. Piazza is a quality bat, but he's not exactly a fire starter.

I can see these young guys developing that eventually, hopefully next year, but the way the A's spend money, you need those intangibles to turn a .500 team into a .600 one.

It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great. - Jimmy Dugan

by AintEasyBeinGreen on Aug 12, 2007 10:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I miss him too

I'm not sure if I would place as much emphasis on intangibles and leadership skills, but I definitely miss Kendall's tenacity. His taking home on K-Rod's brainfart, and nearly taking a Michael Young(?) cleat to the face will never be forgotten.

It's too bad he couldn't produce like he did in Pittsburgh for us, he could have probably taken us over the hump.

We've got two months left in the season, and I'll be a free agent after this year, so I still have something to pitch for." - Joe Kennedy

by Travis Buck Nuckin on Aug 12, 2007 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anyone who can take down a d**k like Lackey...

has my heart forever.

I meant that those intangibles are missing from the team as a whole this year, for a number of reasons, not just that Kendall was the only one who had them.

I hope some of the young guys on our team, especially Swisher, can grow up and take on those roles next year.

It's amazing how quickly an ALCS team can be completely dismantled.

It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great. - Jimmy Dugan

by AintEasyBeinGreen on Aug 12, 2007 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I miss Kendall too,

but trading him was the right move, because his bulldog attitude wouldn't allow him to play second fiddle to the rookie.

"We are all gods. You can never underestimate the creative potential of a human being. Nor the destructive potential."- Robert Pollard, GbV

by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Aug 13, 2007 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm probably in the minority...

...in that I think the team (pitching, specifically) was better with him than without him, but... I see his trade as a long-term move in the sense that Suzuki needs to get some real experience under his belt so the team can move forward next season and beyond, so I'm ok with it.

I still miss Ramon, though.

by UncleLeo on Aug 12, 2007 10:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Things aren't so simple

I never wanted Kendall on the team but even I will acknowledge the prowess of a veteran catcher who has caught Haren, Blanton and Gaudin for a season and a half over a rookie catcher. If I were betting I'd put my money down on the pitching staff having a lower ERA over the last month and half with Kendall behind the plate instead of Suzuki.

That said, I never thought that the extradinary pitching we got in the first half of the season was going to continue throughout the rest of the year. The team ERA was going to go up regardless of who the catcher was.

The problem with the question is it's too vague. In the short term the A's are worse without Kendall. But Kendall was not coming back next year, the job was going to Suzuki. And the growing pains Suzuki and the training staff are enduring right now will help make them that much better next year. Since this season was toast regardless of Kendall's status on the roster it only makes sense to start planning and playing for next year. So long term (and by long term I mean starting in 2008) I think the A's are going to be better without Kendall in the line-up today.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Aug 12, 2007 11:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

agree 100%

and I'll add that the pitching staff's ERA was already going up before Kendall was traded...not his fault, it was just due for a correction from the staff's pretty incredible first few months.

by OaklandSi on Aug 13, 2007 2:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

don't be fooled by kendall's recent hitting

his new team is 2-5 on the most recent roadtrip, which i believe were almost all (or all) his starts. basically, they started to lose once lou gave him the job over babyface k-hill.

sure, he has hit way above expectations, but today's wood meltdown didn't exist in a vacuum. if jk gets some credit for the low ERAs he caught, give him some blame for those last two games in CO (where, perhaps not incidentally, the A's got killed in interleague last year). and does he help the homer drought on the northside? nope.

by notah8er on Aug 13, 2007 1:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I cannot believe anybody misses Kendall

Are ya kiddin' me ?? your talking about a guy whose major league career is coming to a end. Do ya really think any ML team will wanna pay a washed up slap hitter to the tune of 10 Million per year to be the worst regular batter in the majors. It's either career over or major major pay cut.

As far as "handling" the pitching staff it's an overrated comment. A major League pitcher should be able to throw strikes to a little leaguer. As far as his "toughness" I keep hearing about I don't see what's so hard about playing that badly and never smiling.

"This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball" ~ Bull Durham

by panamanianexpress on Aug 13, 2007 4:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

He took a cleat to the face to save the game ...

and tackled John Lackey ... those were both very cool "tough guy" moments ...

I'm not sure how much a catcher really matters (and it's far from established statistically) -- but, while any pitcher should be able to throw strikes -- if they throw the wrong strikes, those strikes will end up as gifts to little leaguers ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Aug 13, 2007 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmmm

1 pair of cleats to face + 1 mound charge = 10 million ???????

"This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball" ~ Bull Durham

by panamanianexpress on Aug 13, 2007 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No ... clearly Kendall was overpaid ...

everyone, please applaud panamanianexpress for figuring that out.
[pause for applause]
Well done. Well done.

What I was saying, though, was pointing out examples that validate the tough guy image, not the salary.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Aug 13, 2007 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No need to be snotty, bro

If you wish to nitpick my comment with "well, he is too tough, you don't know what yer talkin' about" that's your right but, in the end for me baseball is a finesse game. If your that tough, play football. It's a fine line between "being tough" and just being an A-hole. As far as me figuring out he was overpaid (pause for applause) he would be overpaid playing at league minimum.

"This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball" ~ Bull Durham

by panamanianexpress on Aug 14, 2007 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your seven question marks weren't a tad snotty?

I only felt the need to address your second paragraph, because your first paragraph was beyond obvious.

Whether or not I believed that you don't know what you're talking about, I didn't say anything to that effect in my initial post.

I did address the entirety of your second paragraph -- you were the one that nitpicked my response, put words into my mouth and completely ignored the bulk of my response.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Aug 14, 2007 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Got nuttin' but love for ya Devo

"Everyone, please applaud panamanianexpress for figuring that out. [pause for applause) Well done. Well done." - Devo

That's condescending, whether or not you agree or disagree with me or think I'm beating a dead horse, please don't make it personal. Yes, I know water is wet, the A's are havin' a bunk year and our president is a bozo. My frustration comes from the fact I keep reading posts about the loss (in my opinion gain) of trading Jason Kendall to the cubs.

What is it people miss ? I guess in the end I DON'T GET IT.

"This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball" ~ Bull Durham

by panamanianexpress on Aug 14, 2007 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

73% of poll respondents ...

believe the A's are better of without Kendall.

But I apologize ... my sarcastic remark wasn't exactly neighborly ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Aug 14, 2007 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I love the sarcasm !

Devo ! "don't go changin', to try and please me" -Billy Joel

I'd rather hear how I'm a buckethead as opposed to some ditto clone posting +1.

to reply to the poll. It's the 27% I cannot comprehend.

"This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball" ~ Bull Durham

by panamanianexpress on Aug 14, 2007 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Some people are big believers ...

in a catcher's ability to influence the pitching staff. I'm not sure whether it's true or not, but to me it doesn't matter because I think we're better off without him because it's time to plan for next year, evaluate young players and not be too concerned if our draft slot improves a notch or two.

The pitchers said they thought it's true, though, so that's something.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Aug 14, 2007 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Amen

I had hoped that with Kendall getting traded, we could all come to harmonious agreement w.r.t. Kendall's complete and utter suckiness, but alas, no. Oh, well.

"WTF is wrong with you people TASTELESS COMMENTS. I'm disgusted. Mocking a 10 year old's horrible painful death." --eshock

by rubin sierra on Aug 13, 2007 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs