Teixeira
by McP on Jul 24, 2007 12:56 PM PDT
Email
PrintWhy shouldn't the A's try to acquire him?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/s...
I am not talking about some three-way where they acquire him and them ship him to New York. They really should make a run at signing/acquiring a big-time hitter for this franchise, someone to carry them into the new ballpark. Teixeira isn't a bad player to consider: provided the A's could sign him to a long-term deal, he's the kind of guy you really can build a line-up around.
When was the last time the A's had that kind of hitter? 2001? Since Giambi left, they just haven't had a serious monster in the line-up that teams need to design a pitching strategy around. Thomas finished 2006 on that kind of roll; Tejada had it going in 2002. But other than that, there just isn't a hitter in the Oakland line-up that anyone in this league fears.
Besides, if the Giants are in pursuit, the A's should be. Not because they need to compete, but because if the sad-sack Giants can acquire Teixeira, there's no excuse for the A's not trying to do it as well.
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I can think of one excuse
and his name is Derek Barton
by GusanoQuemador on Jul 24, 2007 12:49 PM PDT reply actions
Daric?
One of them can DH; besides, arguing that a kid who has never made an Opening Day MLB roster should prevent a franchise from acquiring a hitter like Teixeira is exactly the kind of backwards thinking that has kept the A's out of the World Series for the past 17 seasons.
Braves and Texas talking
Texas wants Salty plus others before they swing the deal. Until the Rangers lower the price, Barton isn't enough to ante into the game.
oops...spelling was wrong. Logic correct though
Everthing has been spelled out below. Basically you're just arguing that owners should just pony up and spend some money. And this has been talked about over and over and over again on AN. Please don't make us talk about it again. Its not going to happen. We have Barton & Cust. That will be the DH & first base tandem of the future.
by GusanoQuemador on Jul 24, 2007 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, they can ...
They just choose not to spend the money they have. As long as they can operate on a shoestring budget (and never win the World Series?), they will.
Hopefully, this aborted season will show them they cannot continue to do so, especially with the pathetic attendance.
Money and talent
The A's have not been willing to spend in quite some time, and since their "talent" isn't there this year and was highly overrated in the past (didn't you ever wonder why the Marlins won the World Series in 2003 when the A's couldn't get out of the first round?!), money shouldn't be an object.
This sad devotion the A's have to low-level budgets isn't a badge of honor; it's a bad business decision.
I'm very happy
with the fact that the A's are not run like the Marlins. If the A's want to spend money, let it be on Justin Smoaks, not Mark Teixeiras.
Sadly, we have neither
I'm not so sure
I'd take 2 world championships in the last 10 years any day!!!!! If you asked me, "compete, compete, compete" but don't win it all or "horrible, horrible, win it all, horrible , horrible, win it all," I'd take that in a second! It's only about one thing -- winning the World Series -- nothing else ... NOTHING else matters.
I'll bet your financial planner LOVES you
I agree but the A's have been better than that
Why not just shoot for "great team, good team, great team, win it all, good team, great team, win it all" The A's have actually been closer to this outcome than you think over the last 8 years.
by GusanoQuemador on Jul 24, 2007 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
It IS about acquiring good, reliable performers.
Sometimes you've got to pay the piper.
I understand that we're probably never going to sign a high profile star for big money, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea to have one in the line-up. We're seeing what happens when you only have a bunch of role players.
developing that talent is a more sound strategy
I'm down with playing the free agents market once in awhile. Thomases, Stewarts, even if that risks a guy like Stebby. But the problem with that is it's a slippery slope towards sacrificing the future of the franchise.
A few reasons
2.) Tex is a free agent after next season and certainly no guarantee to re-sign, in fact he would be very unlikely to. I feel pretty confident saying he will be an Oriole on opening day 2009.
3.) 1B is not a position of need. Barton will be solid - and cheap. If we are going to throw away valuable resources like top prospects or millions of dollars it should go towards areas of need - more specifically shortstop and perhaps centerfield.
by pinkfloyd @ Athletics Nation on Jul 24, 2007 12:56 PM PDT reply actions
The A's can't sign him to a long term deal
b. He's a Boras client so he's gonna hit the open market in 1 1/2 years anyways so we basically are renting him for a year and a half
c. He's going to Baltimore in 1 1/2 years for $1237127342834283 because Angelos is in love with him.
"Besides, if the Giants are in pursuit, the A's should be. Not because they need to compete, but because if the sad-sack Giants can acquire Teixeira, there's no excuse for the A's not trying to do it as well."
I've gotten a warning probably for calling you an idiot before so I won't do it here, but this a really dumb idea. Players the Giants were in pursuit of last year: Bengie Molina, Dave Roberts, Rich Aurilia, etc. are terrible. If anything you want to learn from a front office you should look exactly at what the Giants are doing and do the entire opposite, and you'll be much better off.
Also hitter people fear is another dumb statement. We just need more good hitters. I don't think teams fear anyone in the Padres, Dodgers, Braves, even the Mets lineups.
by awesomer @ Athletics Nation on Jul 24, 2007 12:59 PM PDT reply actions
Aurilia, Roberts, and Molina
Are doing better than the majority of the A's. Next, I've read that Tex said he wanted to stay in Texas for the remainder of his contract and he then wants to go to Baltimore because that's where he's from. Also, the Giants, obviously, are willing to spend a lot more than the A's.
by mlleaimee on Jul 24, 2007 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
You're joking right? Like, seriously right?
Molina: .267/.287/.403
Aurilia: .239/.286/.350
Roberts: .254/.322/.349
A's Team Averages: .250/.329/.394
But seriously, thanks for playing and please come again.
by awesomer @ Athletics Nation on Jul 24, 2007 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow
I checked the A's team numbers like 2 weeks ago and they were pretty decent. They've really plummeted.
You know what
Roberts and Aurilia have been out a lot but they at least TRY to be effective on the field. It also looks like Benji's numbers are BETTER than the team's average and he can actually block a ball. The Giant's are at least trying to win. They haven't trown in the towel.
by mlleaimee on Jul 24, 2007 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I mean the organization
Not the players
by mlleaimee on Jul 24, 2007 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Please explain how they are better
Last I checked .267 >> .254 AVG, .403 > .394 SLG, but .329 >>>>>>>>>>>>> .287 OBP.
by awesomer @ Athletics Nation on Jul 24, 2007 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
PS, Bengie is 2nd in MLB in passed balls with 12
by awesomer @ Athletics Nation on Jul 24, 2007 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh jog on
by mlleaimee on Jul 24, 2007 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow, I had no idea Molina's OBP was so low
God, the Giants really are terrible when their arguably second-best hitter is OBPing .287. Ouch.
you'll get no warning from me
No warning.
Yes, you'll just suddenly recognize a stench and then...Omigod, we've traced the smell, and it's coming from inside your pants! Get out NOW!
agree with you till the last sentence...
No one feared in the Mets' lineup? Reyes may not be a power hitter, but if Ichiro is feared, and most would agree he is, then Reyes certainly would be. Then you have Beltran, and Wright, and Delgado...a couple of these guys aren't performing to their career norms (heh, sounds familiar), but they're still intimidating because of what they've done in the not-so-distant past and what they still do in the present, though maybe not as frequently as their talent would suggest. I think Chipper Jones is a pretty feared hitter...model of consistency...and despite the .220 avg and, Andruw is as well. Dodgers, well, they have guys who used to be feared and guys who will be feared. And the Padres...c'mon, we know Milton is threatening, though not necessarily for his hitting.
by Cutthemullet on Jul 24, 2007 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions
To me, feared hitter means one thing
When he comes to the plate there is a very high % that he will hit the ball out of the ballpark. I am not scared of mostly singles hitter like Ichiro or Reyes. Delgado and Beltran I'm not fearful of this year, in fact if they're fearful then I see no reason why Jack Cust isn't either.
Andruw is more feared than Chipper in my book, but neither is that monstrous. No one is on the Dodgers, the closest right now is probably Matt Kemp but they don't really play him.
My fearful hitters list off the top of my head quick:
Bonds
Arod
Fielder
Vlad
Morneau
Sheffield
Howard
Utley
Mig Cabrera
Hell Ryan Braun at this point Jesus that guy is sick.
by awesomer @ Athletics Nation on Jul 25, 2007 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah
add Pujols, Griffey, Dunn, Magglio, Ortiz, Manny...kind of a long list, and no A's to be found. Rios, Glaus, and Hurt are all borderline for my list...
Some guys don't really deserve to be feared yet, or simply aren't feared even if they deserve to be, because they're unproven. I'd say Carlos Pena would be one example, Braun would still be one if only until the end of this year. The majority of that lineup might be "feared" by 2009. Then there are the guys whose talent makes them more feared than they probably should be...guys whose names start with Beltr fit here. Beltran got way too much respect when LaRussa slotted him third in the NL All Star order, with Utley hitting 8th...but that shows who would probably be more feared by opposing managers and pitchers, despite the actual results. And guys like Delgado, even Piazza, are still respected if not feared due to past performance...so for me, being a feared hitter is mainly about actual ability, but also accounts for perceived ability to an extent. Not like this is some sort of term that needs a precise definition or anything, but it's one of those parts of the sport that's fun to debate
by Cutthemullet on Jul 25, 2007 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions
..............................
Giving up multiple major pieces for a year and a half of Teixeira is lunacy. There's no way he'll resign at anything less than market value (this is Boras, remember?), so trading for him "to resign him" is pointless. He won't.
Yeah, the Marlins are a well-run operation all right. Gouge their fans for a playoff run every six years (which so far has lucksacked them into two Series wins), then sell off all the decent players and shove garbage down their fans' throats for five years while collecting revenue sharing checks and high draft picks from MLB. Real model citizens, those guys.
Get a clue. And stop posting imbecilic complaints about the A's payroll thinly disguised as trade suggestions.
Yunel Escobar
I don't see Teixeira as a good fit for the A's needs.
One of the names that came up in the Teixeira-to-Atlanta rumors is Yunel Escobar, but the Rangers aren't really looking for a young shortstop.
Is he someone we could try to get? What would it take to get him from Atlanta, and would it be worth it?
Yunel Escobar
Not gonna happen. The Braves would rather move Rentaria than Escobar.
well, we know what the next logical question is
by Cutthemullet on Jul 24, 2007 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
What am I going to have for breakfast?
I'm thinking a smoothie.
If you have a smoothie with your roughy,
do they cancel each other out?
orange you clever
That scratching sound you heard
Was us scraping the bottom of the barrel for comedy.
Um, that might have been
one of the scratching sounds you heard. Darn jock itch.
If the idea here is to sign a major impact bat
then why give away a bunch of young talent to rent Tex for a year and a half? We know that Boros is going to make teams pay big time to sign him. Why not just really pony up the big bucks, keep the young talent we would have to trade for Tex, and just pony up for ARod this offseason? This at least would fill a position of need (SS) without costing us any of our good young players.
This too will never happen for the A's, but it makes way more sense then giving away a bunch of young talent for early negotiating rights with Teixeira.
easy
just trade Chavvy and Kotsay for prospects (Kotsay would probably be just a straight dump). Throw all that extra money (plus the money left from Piazza/Stewart leaving and Kendall's contract) at A-Rod.
Teixeira Rumors
mlb.com says Teixeira to Boston?
by athleticsBB4life on Jul 24, 2007 1:49 PM PDT reply actions
Kennedy to Dodgers, Brewers, or Phillies?
According to MLB.com:
The A's continue to be an active team, making a move prior to Monday's game with Anaheim that would indicate a trade is forthcoming. The Athletics designated outfielder Bobby Kielty for assignment, which means that he may be traded soon, and there are whispers that the Red Sox are interested in the switch-hitting outfielder. The A's are also listening to offers on left-handed reliever Joe Kennedy, and three National League teams -- the Dodgers, Brewers and Phillies -- appear to be interested.
by athleticsBB4life on Jul 24, 2007 1:51 PM PDT reply actions
Just heard a rumor......
Joe Kennedy to the Dodgers for prospect Chin-Lung Hu, who is batting .349 with nine homers and 46 RBIs in 92 games at Triple-Las Vegas and Double-Jacksonville this season. What do you think A.N.?
Please
be true
by mlleaimee on Jul 24, 2007 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Hard to imagine the Dodgers
being that stupid, but who knows. More likely, the conversation went like this.
"We'll give you Kennedy but we want Snorkeldorfer in return."
"WHO???"
"Ok, Hu. Done deal."
Nice try, Billy.
Body parts are undervalued
The A's should get Chin-Lung Hu and Tony Armas.
I don't believe it
But I'd take that faster than you can say "Hu!"
Ha -- and he'd just have to play first base.
"I don't know" "what" the Dodgers might be thinking, but I think it sounds like a "fuckin'-A" trade for us.
by The Dogfather on Jul 24, 2007 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Not likely...
But it would be oh so sweet...
by ZeroIndulgence on Jul 24, 2007 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions
that would be nice...
and I don't think it's too far out there considering I read the Dodgers would trade him to KC for Dotel...because of that I don't think it's too far fetched. If they'd do it, then I'd pull the trigger now Billy.
And I agree that Tex probably isn't the right fit for Oak...plus we wouldn't be able to resign him as already pointed out.
by johnspaz7 on Jul 24, 2007 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Throw in Crosby
and maybe grab an additional arm or two.
Won't they need their spare arms
if they take on Crosby? Having an extra back or two would also be a good idea.
I don't want Texeira
but I do want Salty. The A's should do whatever it takes to get him, and I think the Braves could sure use a solid 1B/Utility OF that can hit for their playoff run this year. Would the Braves even consider Swisher and Calero for Salty?
Sure, let's give up the franchise hitter
(and a random reliever) for an untested rookie. What the hey. Also, there's a flock of butterflies in the beef stew.
You, sir, are clinically insane.
You gotta give something to get something ...
and nobody's going to give away a prospect like Saltalamacchia for nothing. Personally, I don't think Swisher is a budding star at all. He's an overrated player with way too many holes in his swing. He has power, and a good eye, and he's a very good defensive 1B, and he's versatile in positions where Atlanta has needs, so he's definitely valuable. But he's not a good hitter, and I don't think he'll ever hit for average. Better to trade him now than wait for him to really expose his bad hitting abilities ala Crosby (and even Chavy).
That's my opinion, and I'm not insane, just realistic.
Well what have you seen of Salty, that makes you
believe he will be any better? Swish is a 30 hr/yr guy, we have none of those. I have not seen as much of Salty to project him to that. As far as hitting abilities, Crosby, and Chavy are not in the same category. Chavy has multiple 30 hr seasons, and without injuries, was on pace for another. Chavy may not meet your expectations, but when healthy is well above average, as a power hitter.
by theblackpearl on Jul 24, 2007 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
True, they're not in the same category
as far as hitting ability. My point is that they both had a point at which their perceived future value was much greater than it is now. I am concerned that Swisher's value (based on a combination of past performance, expected future performance AND status of current contract) will never be as high as it is now.
No, you're insane
Saltalamacchia's OPS is a hundred points lower than Swisher's, and Swisher is having a terrible offensive season.
I don't care if he hits for average if he gets on base 4 times out of ten and bangs out 25-40 HR a season.
I cannot fathom where you're getting the notion that Saltalamacchia is a no-doubt, sure-fire all star caliber player, which is essentially the kind of prospect it would take to get me to trade Swisher for him 1-for-1. A season of A ball? 22 games at AA? A .750 OPS in the majors?
Boy, am I glad you aren't the A's GM. The team would look like the Florida Marlins every season-- tons of rookies with "potential" and no one who's actually played enough to demonstrate that they're a good baseball player.
Frankly, PaulThomas, I'm getting pretty tired of
the way you talk to people on here. There's no need to call someone insane, or insult them with stuff like "glad you're not the GM". AN was a great place before you ever posted here, and it will be a great place long after your last post here. Don't get a swell head just because you think you know a lot.
Now go swing a Kennedy for Hu deal and I'll get off your case.
What if he called me insane?
I mean, there could be a need to do so at any point in the future.
There's more to it than that ...
Saltalamacchia is cheap and young. He is still getting bigger and stronger, and there is reason to believe he has not developed his power yet. Swisher is good, but he's not cheap. Not terribly expensive, but not cheap. The A's need a catcher and a 1B, and Saltalamacchia can play both - well. The Braves need a player like Swisher now, and I believe the A's (no offense to Suzuki, but I don't think he'll ever be above average) need a player like Salty for the future. Salty only has about 150 AB's, so neither you nor I know exactly what he will become, but I don't expect to ever see much more than about a .250 average and 20-25 HR's from Swisher. OBA is fine, but you need your 1B and RF to put the ball in play, and I think the time is now to sell high on Swisher.
Maybe you don't agree with my opinion, but insulting me doesn't really impress anyone.
why do you need your 1B and RF
to be contact hitters?
Acquiring Salty might make us better, but probably only marginally so for the future, and at a high cost of current talent. Beane would probably do it if he thought it was a good bet, but I don't believe he does.
Swisher still makes far below market value, and probably will until the final year of his contract (if his development continues).
For the time being, there are probably better ways to spend time and effort trying to improve the team than prematurely unseating our rookie catcher and dealing our best outfielder/1st baseman for a blue chip catching prospect.
Proof please that Salty can play 1st well
I'm sure if he could play really well Atlanta would have had him there much earlier. Yes his value is much higher as a catcher for trade value to other teams but the production ATL was getting from 1B if Salty could've played 1st well he would've been there in May.
We actually don't need a C, we have one under team control for the next 6 years already who was in BA's top 100, one of only 5 catchers. Trading for another catcher it this point would be a terrible move, trading Swisher for one of them borders on the ... uh ... not thinking normally side.
Also OBP is not fine, its awesome. You most definitely don't "need your 1B and RF to put the ball in play" if all they're going to do is K, BB and hit HRs (Jack Cust FTW), You'd have an awesome team.
by awesomer @ Athletics Nation on Jul 24, 2007 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, that was uncalled for
I apologize. That crossed the line to attacking the poster rather than the post. I've been unusually irritable today. Which is obviously not iceplant's fault. It is, perhaps, not a coincidence that I was born on National Grouch Day.
Alright, calm Paul surveys the situation...
Uh, right, Swisher. I don't see how you can really say he's not cheap. Certainly relative to what's available on the free agent marketplace (and thus readily available), he's cheap. The Marlins have been trying to make a go of it without even keeping players through their arb years, but that hasn't worked out real well.
Being a catcher is worth something, certainly, but catcher is the position the A's farm system is deepest at. If it was some kind of package deal that involved sending Landon Powell or Jeremy Brown or even Suzuki himself to Atlanta for Salty, I'd be a lot more on board with it.
And I don't see the .250/20-25 thing at all. I mean, Swish already bested both of those last year. (Granted, not by much on the average.) You can't accidentally hit 36 home runs. Especially nowadays, pitchers adjust to new players very, very fast. Your weaknesses will be attacked within weeks of your first appearance. (Look at Jack Cust-- he's an unusually clear example of the cyclical nature of adjustment and readjustment.) At this point, any significant changes in his numbers are going to be a result of Swish getting better or worse-- and he should continue to get better.
I have to say that trading a guy who just hit 36 HR last season for a lone rookie, no matter how good, is not selling high. It's selling low on this season, in which he's been merely above average rather than very good.
If the A's want Saltalamacchia, they need to trade pitching for him. In a way I could actually see the two teams forming a kind of pseudo-partnership-- A's develop the pitchers, Braves develop the hitters, and then they swap them for each other. Kind of a comparative-advantage exchange.
I don't support that idea
but it's far from crazy. Certainly Swisher is a much better bet from a purely hitting standpoint, but plus hitting is way more valuable at catcher than 1B/corner outfield, which is replaceable.
I disagree that we're deep at catcher. Powell is out for a long time and it's not clear that he'll ever be able to physically handle catching. Recker apparently can't catch the ball (and he's a bit behind age-wise.) Suzuki is a nice guy to have since the A's depend on young talent, but he is unlikely to ever be a plus offensive player and he's a liability on defense at this point. Jeremy Brown sucks.
Swisher would be too high a price, but I don't think crazily so.
If it helps, I've been in a lousy mood too,
so sorry if I didn't use my most diplomatic side. An A's win tonight could do us both good!
<hugs PaulThomas,
hugs everyone>
THis will never happen
Texas wont want to deal within the division (which is why he wont go to the Angels). And, the biggest reason is why morgage the future for one year (lets face it, we need more than Tex to win the division this year). Billy doenst make moves like that. He's all about the future.
High Price for Teixeira
From what I've read Texas is driving a hard bargain for him. And why wouldn't they? The guy still has 1 year left on an inexpensive contract. If I were Daniels, I'd be asking for a top 30 prospect plus a decent starting pitching prospect. For us that means Barton and Meyer or Braden. We just don't have the depth to make a trade for Tex.
There are just so many reasons why a trade like this won't and shouldn't even happen, that I'm really surprised we're still talking about it. But when you're bored you're bored I guess.
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