Was There Something You Wanted Me To Say?
by baseballgirl on Jul 15, 2007 2:37 PM PDT
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PrintWell, I guess we can talk about why Kendall is still playing every day. I guess we could also talk about how awful the A's look at almost every at-bat. I guess we can simply say that if your offense can't score more than 3 runs a game, you're not going to win a lot of games. I guess we could also say that after Buck's miracle hit to put the A's ahead, it seems like the battery would be careful with any 3-2 pitches to opposing batters. We could also talk about how if you want the game to continue, it's usually customary to use your best pitchers first, and then in descending order to your worst. I'm not sure how Kennedy drew the 9th inning instead of the 14th, but it doesn't matter.
Pick any angle you want, and the outcome is the same: This team is NOT good. Getting swept in a 4-game series after the All-Star Break to run your total losing streak to 7 is about the worst possible thing to happen to a team right now.
But worst of all, this team is not fun; there is very little to cheer about, and the team is trying its best to make sure that the one bright spot; Danny Haren's run to the Cy, is as difficult as possible. You hate to give up in July, but the A's are giving us precious few reasons to stay in it for the season.
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Just an FYI...
George Bush is about to be interviewed on BBTN, just in case you want to avoid being depressed even further.
Oh, and they also just showed Milton Bradley driving in a run.
Go Bradley
No reason not to root for a guy who was cut.
Of course this isn't fun
It's never fun to lose. Winning ugly is a hell of a lot of fun. Winning with a crappy team is even fun.
Losing: Never fun.
Today, Geren stooped to the level
of his team. When you only have two serviceable relievers and you bring one of them in to start the 7th, you simply cannot get only 2 innings combined out of them. Casilla should have finished the 7th, or Embree should have pitched the 9th.
Billy, if the A's were a soccer team would you care? Please do something to improve the outlook of this team that has to have everything break just right in order to win a single game. This isn't a slump you ride out, this is a team in crisis.
i think he knows that now
7 straight losses while scoring 3 runs or less in 10 straight....
needs to fix the bullpen, 2/5th of the starting rotation, and almost every position player..should make for a fun winter.
Geren has to start the fire
I can't be the only one who thought the OF was loafing on that triple.
I can't be the only one who notes the lack of strike-outs by A's relievers.
It's time to start up the Fire Geren polls.
How in the hell, is a new manager going to make
Kennedy strike out people, unless Trevor Hoffman is a throw in. Point 2, with Castillo hitting, they are playing Kendall deep, and if Kendall hit it there it would be a triple.
by theblackpearl on Jul 15, 2007 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
what about 'no doubles defense'
Don't they still call for that?
The lackadaisical play needs to be call out. I recall Miggy getting benched for failing to run out a GB in the past. (came in as a substitute later, but got the point across.)
And why not walk the bases loaded once it's 2nd / 3rd?
Because then you have to pitch to,
and not walk, Cuddyer and Morneau. Once Kennedy came in it was pretty much over. Once Castillo tripled it was very much over, and once they unintentionally walked the only bad hitter coming up any time soon, it was really over.
Everyone on this site seems to think the A's
aren't trying. That is one thing I haven't seen, they just aren't very good right now, and who gives a damn how much emotion they show, they know they are playing bad, letting fans see how frustrated they are for the sake of some false sense of emotion/caring factor is ridiculous.
by theblackpearl on Jul 15, 2007 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Amen, sister
No, not well said
Teams that "care," show they care. Actions speak a whole lot louder than words. I don't care what the players think of me, frankly, and I don't want to "see" emotion so that I can feel better ...
I want to see someone pissed off, because people who are upset that they're embarasssing themselves and redefining bad baseball should be pissed off, and when people are pissed off it becomes obvious.
Hate to break this to ya pal, but if you call what I've seen the last few days "trying," you are as naive as they come. What I call it is "stealin' money." I bet they show more emotion cashing those fat paychecks ... I've seen better acts at the carnival.
so
So are you saying that if Bobby Crosby scowled at the pitcher when he was batting, maybe started grinding his teeth he wouldn't be hitting .220? I don't see the point in demanding to see someone pissed off if outward displays of emotion just aren't part of that person's personality. If it was Carlos Zambrano not showing emotion, then I'd say there's cause for concern.
by raulhukilledu on Jul 15, 2007 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Again, I don't "demand" anything
Showing emotion doesn't mean anything to me, personally. I thought I made that clear. It doesn't make me feel any better if I see someone pissed off ... I'm too old to worry about whether millionaire, pampered athletes "care."
What I'm saying is this ... how you "feel" is evidenced by how you "act." 99 times out of a 100 if it looks like you don't care much, it's because you don't care much. If it looks like you're angry you look like a circus clown, it's because you're really angry.
You see, those who "rant" that the A's don't show enough emotion? It's because they think the A's might not care ... those who "rant" and think that needing to "see" emotion is irrelevant? It's because they think the A's might not care, and they don't have the balls to admit it.
I don't give a damn about whether they look...
...angry or happy or frustrated or whatever.
I give a damn about how they play.
This is the biggest piece
of absurd bullshit I've read since the DelGrande article.
As an athlete, you're taught from the earliest moment not to show emotion because it lets the opponent know that they've beaten you. To claim that the only people who care are the ones showing emotion (ok, the only 99% of those who care) is just plain wrong. I guess Ernie Els doesn't care how he does on the golf course (his nickname being "the Big Easy"). I guess Tom Glavine doesn't care whether he gets his 300 wins or not. Greg Maddux never cares how well he does, nor does Mauer or Morneau. ARod was heavily criticized for not caring enough before he got to NY - he was too "robotic" - yet "cared" enough to get a contract for $250 million.
To say how you feel is evidence by how you act is absurd. It's called controlling your emotions and is done everyday by people very successful. You say you're too old to care whether the athletes care, but then say "I want to see someone pissed off." If you didn't care why would you want that?
by IndianaAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions
1. "You're taught ,,, not to show emotion
because it lets the opponent know they've beaten you." Sooooo,the only time you show emotion is when things are going badly?! What about when you hit a walk-off homerun or win the World Series?! Is it ok to show emotion then??
As an athlete you're taught to control your emotions, NOT to suppress them -- HUGE difference.
And I never said that the "only people who care are the ones showing emotion." I said that 9 times out of 10 your actions mirror what you're feeling. I've seen Glavine get quite upset -- not too often, he does have close to 300 W's ... I've seen Maddux get upset as well ...
You're correct in pointing out what seemed to be double-talk ... what I meant to say is "I want to see people pissed off" if they are, in fact, pissed off. All I'm trying to say is, if it looks as if someone doesn't really care, it probably means they don't. Controlling your emotions does not mean not showing them. A person can be very irritated, agitated, and angry and SHOW that while managing to control those same feelings.
Controlling
in this sense means "don't show emotion." I've heard numerous coaches say that including Ron Polk, one of, if not the, most successful coaches in college history. If they're pissed off you really think showing it will make a difference in their play?
You say Glavine and Maddux have gotten upset and angry, and I agree they have at some point, but the overwhelming majority of their games you cannot tell if they have a shutout going or have given up a ton of runs.
How do you propose they show that they're pissed off - do they have to shatter a bat, punch the wall (Kevin Brown), throw equipment? Just what would satisfy you?
by IndianaAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Again,
I'm not looking to be "satisfied." But you bring up an interesting point ... those fans who seem to be on the "other side" of the "emotion debate" seem to think that "showing" your anger means completely flying off the handle and losing control. I'm not implying that at all.
All I'm suggesting is that ... perhaps ... losing seven games in a row, setting a new Oakland record for offensive ineptitude, and falling out of the race might get one a little upset. And ... perhaps ... that irritation may show up in a facial expression or perhaps even vocally.
What is Crosby, Chavez, or Ellis doing any
differently than they did last year, when the A's made the playoffs, the answer, absolutely NOTHING, Chavez is actually playing better offensively, and his body language, has never changed. Ellis' offense has been worse, but his demeanor hasn't changed. The player the A's are missing the most is Frank Thomas, and for his whole career, they have been saying he doesn't seem as if he cares, because he isn't emotional, and just goes through the motions,but he now has over 500 hr's and should be in the HOF.
by theblackpearl on Jul 15, 2007 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Crosby, Chavez and Ellis
are doing something very differently this season ... they're losing games.
In regards to Chavez ... exactly, you could tell him his house was on fire and his demeanor wouldn't change -- don't know if that's good or bad, just sayin.'
Don't really understand the comment regarding Ellis -- I think the whole point of the "emotion" debate is about whether or not his demeanor should change.
Who's ever said it seemed Thomas "doesn't care??" I've never heard that about him ... not once, sorry.
absolutely spot on..
this is a sports franchise...the only metric that matters AT ALL is winning...period.
this isnt life, its not business, etc. its a competitive sport by which success is measured only by winning out over your competition. this team sucks and the players are boring to watch because they have no competitive impetus. 180 degrees from 2001, the last time this team was really competitive. The last few years have been smoke and mirrors, and its cought up with us.
Talk about high expectations
2001 is "the last time this team was really competitive" ???
Winning the division three times in five years isn't competitive?
Winning the ALDS isn't competitive?
Winning 103 games on the season isn't competitive?
Winning 20 consecutive games isn't competitive?
Man, you're a tough customer to please.
According to Bud Selig...
...the only important thing is making money. He didn't say so in so many words, but it's understood by his actions and his comments when they were considering contraction... that winning on the field was not a factor for deciding which teams might be contracted.
A handful of good seasons notwithstanding, he never seemed to place much importance on winning when he owned the Brewers, either.
Oh, it IS a business, btw. We fans are constantly reminded of that when we try to insert any sentimentality.
Right, because Geren can make pitchers...
...strike out more batters.
The only thing he can do is push people to play harder. He can't make them hit better or pitch better.
As much as people like to go right to the "fire the manager!" cry, this is a team that's just plain put together poorly.
Geren has little to nothing to do with that.
Why fire Geren?
is he hitting as bad as Kendall? I don't buy this Geren has to start a fire nonsense. Teams don't respond to that. If they did Lou Pinella's team would have all been in the playoffs and the best in the game. The A's offence sucks. It is not the GM or Managers fault. It's the players faults, all of them. Geren can't scream his head off and force them to perform. He can't make a lineup of chopped liver and turn it into foie gras .
by Athletics Fan In London on Jul 15, 2007 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Agree mostly
however the GM bears a little responsibility for the offense because he put the team together. Not all the responsibility mind you, these guys are getting paid handsomely to do a job, but some responsibility.
by IndianaAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Nico
You spend a lot of time dissecting moves and swings. Geren wanted Casilla for the 7th and 8th, Embree for the 9th.
Nothing wrong with that. It didn't work, but given the state of the bullpen, what the hell else was he supposed to do to put a stop to this slide.
And this is probably going to be a crappy year. That's what happens when you take average, 81-81 talent and then cripple it with injuries. But in the end that it's crappy will have very little to do with Geren's use of the bullpen.
What was he supposed to do?
Stick with Casilla after he gave up a soft liner that dropped barely fair, or hand the ball to Embree and say "you've got the next 5 outs". Either way would have made some sense. What he did made no sense to me.
I like Geren. I just happen to think this was probably his worst "bullpen use" call of the season.
I would have stuck with Casilla
And I would have had Embree pitch the 9th. Still none of what he did was particularly awful to me.
Glad to hear you like Geren. Did you notice that he didn't use Cust for Kendall in the 7th, but then had him in the 9th? I thought that was pretty smooth on his part.
Embree
by Helloooo 1st on Jul 15, 2007 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions
There are no guarantees, but if
Embree had lost it in the 9th I wouldn't slam Geren for the choice (though I think the main problem was pulling Casilla too fast, which set the other problems in motion). Embree's workload, thanks to the A's recent futility and the ASB, has been virtually nil lately; he could absolutely have come out after 20 pitches and pitched the 9th.
Yes,
by Helloooo 1st on Jul 15, 2007 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions
That might have been the plan.
When Embree came in, I assumed he was in for both innings. However, the Twins fouled off about a hundred pitches against him, and he just got tired. It's possible that it was originally the plan, but when he had thrown so many pitches, the plan changed.
complete crisis...
this team will finish last this year, almost undoubtedly. something is wrong on many levels. this club is dead in the water.
'Almost undoubtedly'
I will concede that this team is really bad right now, but surely there's room for doubt that we'll fall as low as Texas. We've still got five games on them, and they still suck.
I'm sure this has to do with roster space
but this quote from Geren is downright silly:
After going 3-5 last night:
"He's got to get some at-bats, he's been out for a while."
So you have a roster that can't hit and you're keeping a hall-of-fame catcher/DH from helping out because he needs some at bats? How about getting those bats IN AN A's UNIFORM?
in my depression/anger
I forgot to mention the post was about Piazza
the handling of the Piazza situation...
Has been so gruesome, so botched, so ridiculous that you wonder what in the hell is going on in the front office.
by coffee roaster on Jul 15, 2007 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Front Office Thinking
- Cust: 2 More Cheap Years + 3 More under Club Control
- Piazza: Gone
by Colorado Fan on Jul 15, 2007 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
True if the A's were the Raiders
They wouldn't get much slack on their handling of Piazza and Bradley. It's been weird and it's been mind boggling.
radio said they're going to rehab Piazza 7-10days
7-10 days!? How many did Kotsay have?
Its clear they have no intention of activating Piazza. They'll showcase him in rehab starts and trade him. Get used to Cust striking out 2-3 times a game. It looks like the league has figured out how to pitch to Cust and that the only hits he will get will be on mistake pitches.
by bolt on Jul 15, 2007 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
unfortunately, he is only DH, not catcher, and
with Cust a butcher in the OF, someone has to sit.
by theblackpearl on Jul 15, 2007 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
still a funny quote
for a guy managing one of the worst offenses in the league
definitely was
I usually maintain a Chavez-like demeanor while reading rotoworld updates, but that one leapt off the monitor. What exactly was Piazza doing during all the time wasted (purposely wasted, it's pretty obvious) trying to prepare him to catch...not hitting at all? To see Kotsay and his sub-.600 OPS entrenched in the lineup at this point several superior players, one of whom is now in San Diego, is so frustrating.
by Cutthemullet on Jul 15, 2007 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Dan Johnson was DH today.
Is that an improvement over Piazza?
If nothing else, over the course of a wasted month he could have been useful as a PH. They've just let him rot, while a team with zero offense has fallen out of the race.
by coffee roaster on Jul 15, 2007 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't agree.
No matter how bad Cust is in the field ...we need to play him there...and get offense. Piazza is a good hitter. I happen to think the net gain in runs Piazza would create would exceed the runs that other teams would gain by Cust being a poor outfielder.
i might get a little excited about this season...
if Kennedy doesn't get used in a crucial spot anymore and if crosby and kendall get reduced playing time. like a lot of a's fans can say, it's very disappointing to watch the a's currently and seeing them lose game after game, especially with their putrid offense that can't score more than 3 runs for 10 straight games!
by swisherroks33 on Jul 15, 2007 2:39 PM PDT reply actions
is it time yet
to start considering a new manager?
by Haren I mean Harden on Jul 15, 2007 2:42 PM PDT reply actions
He has had a few bad games, but overall
Geren has done an outstanding job.
by theblackpearl on Jul 15, 2007 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Agree
Geren has been the only glue.
Every thing else has been solvents.
by One won lost won on Jul 15, 2007 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Trade for Crawford and Cabrera from the Floridas
for whomever, except Haren, that you have to give up to either of the Florida teams . . . making sure though to move BoCro and Chavez as part of any deal!
Oh, the Floridas can't have Colby Lewis either, cause . . . er . . . he would have liked to have been best man at Billy's wedding if he had had the chance!!!
by millbraeforAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 2:42 PM PDT reply actions
we couldn't get either of those players
for every asset we have
If I'm Florida I say
Haren has to be included if you want Cabrera. Now what?
I agree in principle, though. What the A's need to do is find a way to add one more "nucleus" player to the core of Haren, Blanton, Gaudin, Swisher, and Buck. Some way, somehow. Not sure how.
Won't Cabrera be a free agent after this season?
BB wouldn't trade for someone who he would lose after the season.
Now if the A's could afford to sign Cabrera for 2008! But where to play him? 3B, OF? Does anybody know if Chavez can play SS?
by bolt on Jul 15, 2007 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
"Screw Moneyball."
That was what I was about to write, because I think it's time the A's look to make a huge signing on the free agent money to provide a real presence in the lineup.
Unfortunately, next year's free agent class really isn't that good offensively. It's going to be hard for us to pull that off. Moreover, we don't have the assets to land such a player via trade.
Of course, there's the strong likelihood that A-Rod will be available after this year, but we can't go THAT big. I was getting ready to write a diary saying the A's should go after Ichiro last week...and they they locked him up.
There's no real way to fix this offense, outside of getting a new centerfielder, left fielder, shortstop, catcher, and third baseman. That's a tall order.
Since the A's can't afford guys like
A-Rod and Hunter, if ownership wants to splurge on a FA hitter they're probably looking at overpaying for Rowand--whom I love but who is not quite a franchise player.
That's where I disagree.
They CAN afford one--just one. They've been pocketing more than $15M each of the last two years. If they reinvest that into payroll, I think we can give a 5-year, $75M contract to someone...if they're close to worth it.
Reading through the list,
I might be willing to overpay for Carlos Guillen. The A's need a real SS and I still think Crosby has some trade value in a package. A lot of teams need a SS and Crosby offers youth, physical ability, and proven defense.
I think the Tigers already extended him.
That list is a little old. I don't think he can make it through his next contract at third--but he could play a corner.
No matter who they get,
They'll probably do the "Dye Job".
That is, break a bone or other crucial body part, then have a dismal time re-habbing. Dye was a lot of salary for no return, for the most part.
by One won lost won on Jul 15, 2007 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Guillen
even though already extended in Detroit, would just add to the A's injury problems. Let Larry Davis get his hands on Carlos Guillen and the A's would be lucky to get 50 games out of him....total.
by IndianaAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Rowand, as you probably know,
went to Cal State Fullerton, so you know Billy Beane has an eye on him.
I disagree with you about "guys like A-Rod and Hunter". They're in two different categories. I agree we can't afford A-Rod, but I think we could afford to sign Torii Hunter.
However, I also believe the reverse about their value. I think A-Rod will be worth the huge price he's paid, because he really is that good. Torii Hunter, on the other hand, will be overpaid and therefore we shouldn't buy him. He's good, but not that good.
I am done with this season
I can't sit and watch Kendall, Crosby, Johnson, etc. take horrible AB after horribel AB. This team is bad.
I know we can't change things overnight, but lets at least make some changes. Either be buyers or sellers,,,
I would like to at least see Crosby, Kendall, Kielty, Johnson, Kotsay, Kennedy, C. Lewis go bye bye.
Go A's 2008!!
by Hawk on Jul 15, 2007 2:46 PM PDT reply actions
Absolutely NO chance
that Danny wins the Cy this year. Typically writers tend to treat it like the MVP and award it to the pitcher who not only has a great season but also did it for a winning team, and we all know that the A's are not a winning team this year. But also, he's been steadily declining for a while and I don't think he's going to keep the ERA under 3 for the season.
I would love it if Crosby could look at the tape from the AB where he singled and see which direction the ball went off his bat. That's right Bobby, it went to RIGHT field. Now please, please, please, please realize that when you hit to the opposite field on a consistent basis the rest of the field seems to open up a bit more and you can continue hitting to the whole field for success.
I'm also miffed about Kennedy in the 9th, but you look down at the 'pen and who else would you really want in that situation? Calero? Lewis? I guess you could make the case for Brown, but the fact remains that after Casilla and Embree there is nobody of value still down there. At least Kennedy had a great season as a reliever last year, but sadly it appears any semblance of a good pitcher has been exorcised from Kennedy's body.
Kennedy
No way do I bring in Kennedy today in this situation. It's possible Calero would have stunk up the joint, or Lewis or even Brown. But Kennedy has been downright awful in virtually every single situation in the past few weeks. And then he gets brought in a tie game in the ninth? Of course he immediately gives up a triple. That's a given.
My only thought is that Billy Beane has now written off the season, and Geren is playing Kendall and Kennedy and Kotsay as much as possible to see if there are any nibbles from other teams. After today's performance from Kennedy, I'd seriously consider DFA-ing him when Street comes back, or even when Piazza comes back. The guy is offering nothing and if he's not tradeable at that point, he should be dumped.
Seven lost in a row in July. There goes the season. The team is now four games under .500. It will be a struggle to play .500 ball the rest of the way, let alone much more than that. I do anticipate the A's will wind up with a better percentage than they have today, but it won't be easy
by richwol on Jul 15, 2007 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't go as far as to say Colby Lewis,
but I would say Andrew Brown, just because the Twins haven't seen him. You know Kennedy will fail; Brown is a roll of the dice.
What about Calero?
Haven't seen him since he's returned from the DL, but he's alleged to be one of our finer relievers.
Pitched twice in this series
in game one got the double play on a basehit to left after Morneau took too wide a turn around second. Then either Friday or Saturday (I think Friday, but at this point they all blend together) he gave up 2 runs in one inning.
by IndianaAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Calero was...
...warming up as soon as Castillo tripled. I'm not sure if the plan was to bring him in to pitch to Cuddyer if Kennedy got Mauer, but Calero had been throwing.
Nico, give 'em Harden instead of Haren
. . . and attribute it to a typo on their end in making the deal!
(Gotta think creatively, and outside the box!)
by millbraeforAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 2:50 PM PDT reply actions
anyone know who's pitching tomorrow?
by Haren I mean Harden on Jul 15, 2007 2:50 PM PDT reply actions
I was going to come in here an leave a snarky
comment, but instead I think I'll just go play PH2 instead.
Ah Yes....7 in a row and counting...
Kendall was pathetic at the plate today....even compared to his teammates. So what is the downside of having Kendall going DFA? At this point seeing what Suzuki can do on a regular basis seems to make alot of sense. The question then who is the backup? Piazza?
Boy Crawford and Cabrerra from the Marlins would be sweet. Problem is that the A's don't have anyone to trade in return outside of Haren who should be deemed untouchable at this point.
Let's hope the Rangers throw their bat boy tomorrow. If so, I gurantee the A's will score four runs (five what would be a stretch).
Works for me.
The statement alone it makes is worth it, and Suzuki is wasting away on the bench.
DFA KenDoll
and bring up the Badger.
The Oakland DFAs!
by rubin sierra on Jul 15, 2007 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey, it could be worse . . .
we could all be Giants fans having to watch:
a team that is OLD and crappy,
with an aging, a-hole left fielder,
who just resigned the GM who consistently gives money away to crappy OLD free agents,
etc., etc., etc.
The sun WILL come up tomorrow, folks!
. . . and THE MAN upstairs really doesn't give a damn about any of this anyway. . .
Update: LA 5, Giants 3 -- top 6th
by millbraeforAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 3:00 PM PDT reply actions
Not sure if it means anything
I posted this at the tail end of the game thread, but here goes anyways. The Twins hit 5 triples this series, while the A's have had 8 all season. I would think that a team with such "superior" defense as our A's would be able to hold teams to doubles. Clearly that isn't happening. So what do we have? A very poor, average defensive team, with a bad bullpen and starting pitching that is coming back down to Earth? What a terrible combination. And this isn't attributable to the Metrodome, because the Twins have now hit a total of 18 triples all season, with 7 of them coming at home before this series started. In my opinion, this has everything to do with this team either not being the defensive force we all think it is, or this team has just quit.
Just quit, I think.
I didn't see one A's outfielder run hard after a ball in the gap this entire series.
I think so too
Sadly. Also sad is that I'll be making my first trip out there to watch a team that flat does not care anymore. Thanks guys.
No One?
I guess you have not been watching Swisher.
by jarforcefatherofforce on Jul 15, 2007 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Travis Buck
and the rug burn on his face might take exception to that.
[snickers inappropiately]
<giggles like a schoolgirl>
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jul 15, 2007 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually...
It also is not the same outfield that we all
glowed about defensively. Noone said Buck, Kotsay, and Stewart, were as good as the outfield of Bradley, Kotsay, and Payton, which is the one we were all talking abou. The A's will catch what they get to, but this outfield does not have superior range.
by theblackpearl on Jul 15, 2007 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Remember these
games were played on synthetic grass which allows the ball to get to the outfield fence faster. There are always more triples hit in the Metrodome than most other ball parks. Correct me if I'm wrong on that, but most of my friends who are Twins fans say that isn't unusual.
by IndianaAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with this assessment
I think the A's got to as many balls, hustled as much as anyone could. Triples occur in the Metrodome, especially on well-hit balls.
Sprtsnwyn is drawing a conclusion based on a small, anecdotal sample. "Why do these deck chairs have wheels??" he intones, as the Titanic sinks.. "The chairs are sliding all over! This is no good! What incompetent fool put wheels on these chairs!"
Ahhh, don't worry about it. Bigger stuff at hand.
by One won lost won on Jul 15, 2007 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
16 triples
This season in the Metrodome (5 in this series). Compared to 25 in Tropicana and 9 in the Rodgers Centre, both with the same surface. It might be a down year for triples, but at the same time, the total amount of triples in the Metrodome went from 11 to 16 in 4 games. It's frustrating.
If you're going to claim
the A's outfield is poor, then you can't just base it on this series alone. It was on a synthetic surface, that cannot be denied. How many have the A's given up in total this year? If they've given up a disproportionate number, then your claim has some merit. Positioning can factor into triples as well, and for at least two of them, Swisher and Kotsay (each playing center) was positioned heavily towards left while the ball was hit to the right center side of center. Those would have been triples even with Hunter or Ichiro in center.
by IndianaAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions
What I'm getting at
is that the Twins hit 5 triples in 4 games after hitting 13 in the previous 80+ games. Clearly there is something wrong, be it improper positioning, lack of ability to take the proper angle to cut the ball off to hold it to a double, lack of hustle, outfielders who maybe aren't that fast, etc. The A's have given up 20 triples this season, tied for 2nd most in the league, so overall, it isn't totally disproportionate. But last year, they gave up more than any one else in the AL, so who knows? Maybe I'm just over-analyzing things right now because I'm trying to make sense of a 7 game losing streak where things aren't going well. To me, it's an indication of how bad things are going all around, and that things are simply not going right on any level and it's extremely frustrating. Maybe it is a one series oddity, or maybe this is the way it will be from now on. I don't know.
Sprtswyn: Just start yelling "Rangers suck"
as loudly as you can, and see if someone, anyone, will join you in yelling tomorrow night -- upside: you will have made a new friend, eh?
by millbraeforAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 3:08 PM PDT reply actions
Dude
Nobody over the course of time has been as positive as me, but this is flat out ridiculous. I'm not trying to go I Miss Jason Giambi or anything, but for fuck sake is asking for more than 3 runs too much to ask? And hell yes the Rangers suck, but we should try to knock one out in the W column, or they are going to pass right by us.
August 4th
I won't be out there until the Midwest AN crew makes its glorious inaugural trek out to the Coliseum. Hope to see you there.
FINALLY
broke 20000 on PH2!!!
!
THAT
is an amazing accomplishment.
Congrats!
Does yard work count?
Hey, we've got cerebral discussions going here,
and you're playing games?!?
by millbraeforAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 3:10 PM PDT reply actions
Sprtsnwyn: Hey, I'm with you 100%
but it's either laugh at things that are so pathetic as the A's play right now, or start drinking heavily . . . (Actually, the alternative might not be all that bad!)
by millbraeforAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 3:13 PM PDT reply actions
Atta boy! . . .
by millbraeforAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 3:15 PM PDT reply actions
Time to prep for 2008
Trade who you can: if the Yankees need a first baseman, make them take Kotsay. Maybe they can take Loaiza, too, if they've forgotten his last turn in the Bronx. Any teams need a late-inning defensive-replacement catcher? Send them Kendall. Seriously, this team (and the franchise) needs to re-assess its practices. After 2006's run to the ALCS, lucky or not, the A's had a chance to be special in 2007. But this is the worst team they've fielded in ten years. And it has nothing to do with Zito leaving, either. I say plan for 2008 now: sell, sell, sell and see who in the farm system is worthy of consideration. Bring Barton up; see what you've got with middle infielders (because Crosby and Ellis are average at best). And better yet, be prepared to spend some money in 2008, because if you're going to move into a new stadium, you still need a good team to compete. Heck, trade Chavez and six other guys to the Yankees for A-Rod.
Hey, just read that Lefty bogeyed 3 of his last
5 holes, including the 18th, and then bogeyed the same 18th hole to lose a playoff for the Scottish Open to a Frenchman -- Lefty could come play for the A's, eh?
by millbraeforAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 3:19 PM PDT reply actions
nah, we have enough bad hitting, choking lefties
on this team.
by theblackpearl on Jul 15, 2007 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
= Perfect fit; hit him 10th in the order
by millbraeforAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 3:22 PM PDT reply actions
I wish that they would sit Kennedy.
Everytime he takes the field he convinces other teams not to trade anything good for him. His value is plummeting.
LA's Beimel just K'd Bonds to end 7th!
by millbraeforAsfan on Jul 15, 2007 3:31 PM PDT reply actions
I would rather watch the Rivercats vs. MLB teams
.... Keeping Swish Buck and Suzuki up. Atleast it would be fun to watch. Oh and Billy, soccer sucks.
I just can't wait
for next spring when Kendall is gone for chrissakes! Please make it so I don't have to see Kendall wear an A's uniform ever again. I don't care if he is "gritty". I hope the media just rips Billy for making Geren the manager. Make him walk the plank for being so arrogant as to put his best man buddy in charge. These guys are just not trying. It's just so apparent. Billy needs to clean house and stop thinking about soccer! Soccer is for European dudes with bad haircuts and screwed up teeth. Get rid of Loaiza, Crosby, Kendall, Kotsay (oh, please get rid of Kotsay after that quote about how he likes this team), Ellis, Kennedy, and Lewis. These guys suck, Suck, SUCK!
I doubt that anyone could ever say
that these guys are not trying.
(Omit joke about "very trying".)
No, I think they are doing everything all out, all they can. You don't get to the ML level without automatically "burnin' your jets" at every opp. They are too young to give it the "Bonds Saunter". They indeed are trying.
The problem is this: Batting-wise, the Athletics have a bunch (maybe 10-12) of players now that are eminently "scoutable". Take Cust. He rips for a while, then a 1-for-20 streak. Rip for ten games, then another drought. That's because upcoming teams scout, see what gets A's hitters out, and this feedback to their pitching staff is successful.
How else does a "hit-per-innning" journeyman throw a three hitter?? I'd say Shannon Stewart is the only player the A's have right now, that adjusts in 2-4 ABs.
Eventually, the Athletics hitters see how their pitching them, and they adjust, get a couple of hits. But it takes them about 14-15 ABs to figure it out.... so it seems. This is the big problem.
As a group, this "scoutability" has a negative, synergistic effect. Guys start pressing, make another out, so the next guy presses even more. It is a painful feedback loop.
by One won lost won on Jul 15, 2007 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Pitch selection to Morneau?
So many pitches on the outside and then they finally decide to throw him an inside slider? Nice call from the bench and/or Kendall...
Pitchers make mistakes
and that's one for certain. Pitcher, catcher, bench, no one called for that pitch, where it was pitched. He simply missed.
If the A's had been ahead 7-2 at the time, no one would notice.
by One won lost won on Jul 15, 2007 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Crosby and the Mendoza Line
Can we take bets as to how long it will take Bobby to dip down below the Mendoza line? He's really only a "slump" away from achieving that. Although, a slump for most players is really par for the course for him, so it shouldn't be too hard.
I'm just thinking if he actually dips below .200 when healthy, it would put the nail in his coffin in Beane's mind ... that might mean the end of the Bobby Crosby era in Oakland.
Anyone notice that Petit has been hitting really well of late in AAA???
I'm sure Billy has noticed ...
Kennedy shows Beane the door
Is it me or is there something more behind the scenes with Kennedy. Kennedy is ticked off at Beane for taking him out of the starting rotation. So today like his last few relief roles he blows the game on purpose.
Those pitches he is throwing are very hittable. He is mad because his free agent year is spending in the bullpen which decreases his value 4 folds. He wants to be traded or he will blow any game he is put in.
So do you think he is sending Beane a message?
which decreases his value 4 folds
If he wants to quit, it's all up to him
Players don't do that.
Have you ever gotten a salary that large???!
If you think he's miffed and wants to do badly in order to force a trade, you must not have ever gotten a raise.
As a lefty, all he has to do is get guys out. Big $$$ await, one inning or starter.
by One won lost won on Jul 15, 2007 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude
We suck.
Does anyone think Billy is just prapring....
for soccer? I mean 2-3 goals a game is pretty good in soccer! I say if the A's were a soccer team they would be HEEELLLLLLAAAA GOOD!
*Yes, watching the A's IS just as boring as watching soccer.
Funny!
Clever, but Beane is not distracted by soccer right now IMHO.
Remember, when Beane and Strawberry were in the minors, they were being touted as the starting outfielders, fixtures, for the Mets for a decade; the "Maris and Mantle" combo, hitting-wise.
Thus, Beane is a person who is acutely aware of hitting failure in the face of expectation.
by One won lost won on Jul 15, 2007 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
My favorite A
Interesting to me is how bad Ellis has looked up there in this series.
Anyway, the season ended the day the A's DFA's Bradley ... as I wrote at the time. The purpose of the above isn't so much a "I told you so" as it is an effort to direct attention to a massive error by Billy. Hey, everybody makes mistakes, but it's silly that so many at AN pretend that Billy never does. When Bradley left, this right-on-the-edge, struggling club bent in the direction of complete failure and kind of quit.
I don't agree with this comment
The Mets and Indians, especially in their home parks, are very tough. So are the Twins. These aren't the Royals. The Indians have the best home record in MLB. The A's won 2 of 3 from the Yankees in Yankee Stadium, which would not happen if they suffered "complete failure". And no one, I mean, NO ONE writing on AN has ever stated, or pretended, that Beane "never does" make mistakes. No one. Not even Beane himself in the interviews!
If trading one player is a "massive error", then what do describe the Mulder/Haren trade as, a "massive victory"? What?
by One won lost won on Jul 15, 2007 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Massive Error Indeed
I mean no personal disrespect, but it is this attitude exactly that I criticized at the time of the Bradley trade and again in my post today.
The very fact that the A's were heading into a gathering storm is what made not only the Bradley DFA but also the TIMING of the Bradley DFA so awful - such a huge error at such an obvious time. Of course those teams are tough. That's why you want to put your best players on the field. Obviously the A's really needed Bradley's presence in the lineup for that tough road trip, and the idea that they simply couldn't make room for Milton is a joke.
The Mulder-Haren trade was highway robbery and a perfect example of why we all love Billy. Let's face it - if Barton is half the player he seems to be, and if Haren should continue to pitch as well as he has, or anything close to it, that trade may go down as one of the most lopsided deals of all time. But it's not a contradiction to say one move was great and another move was lousy. What makes no sense is to say that a given move couldn't have been lousy because so many other moves made by the same guy were good ones.
DFAing Bradley was a complete disaster and put the nail in the A's season. To claim that the collapse of the A's and the DFAing of Bradley which happened at exactly the same time is a coincidence is ridiculous.
But isn't it perfectly possible that
the A's were going to tank with or without Bradley, as they entered a tough schedule having played over their heads on borrowed time? Especially considering that having Bradley, and not having Bradley, are often strikingly similar?
Couldn't it be that without Bradley we've gone 5-16, but that "with" Bradley (quotation marks because he rarely actually plays) we'd have gone 5-16?
hmmm......
at the time i felt the Bradley DFA was certainly a loss for both the team and for Milton. and it certainly has nailed the a's chances for a postseason push this year. i'd actually hoped that we would be able to retain Bradley long term when Billy first traded for him and had high hopes after his ALCS play last year. Both Ethier and Bradley continue to play very well on other teams, making Billy look bad all the way around on this deal.
however, most of us will cut Billy slack on this decision because of Bradley's history of injuries and his volatility off the field. we just dont have the details of what happened off the field with Milton this season.
by oak1 on Jul 15, 2007 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions
We also don't know how good or bad
(or healthy or injured) Andrew Brown will prove to be. And we have to wait more than a week to decide whether Bradley plays a lot for the Padres. He often played a week for us. Well, almost a week.
Needed his presence in the lineup, eh?
So, then, since he went back on the DL at that same time, they would still have lost 7 of 10?
You know, making irrational arguments which confuse causality and correlation is annoying enough as it is. You might at least try picking real correlations instead of fabricating them out of thin air.
I would be willing to agree
that we miss Bradley so much if I thought Bradley was going to play every day, because no question they miss his presence in the lineup big time. But I still think that if Beane had felt Bradley was going to play a lot in the second half, he would have kept him. But Bradley, moping on the bench, didn't bring "fire"--he brought "pout".
I could believe this argument,
if, in fact, Bradley had ever played a complete series with the A's. He's been a non factor all year. If he was merely on the DL again, would we be holding our breath for his return? No, of course not. Bradley has been, and still is, irrelevant to the fortunes of the A's.
Ellis did look bad
on several occasions. Is this the flipside of the baby story? He came out "en fuego" after his boy was born. Now he really looks distracted and pre-occupied.
Maybe losing this many is really affecting him. I'm sure everyone on the team is woeful.
the Athletics, as a team, are very unused to this.
by One won lost won on Jul 15, 2007 4:51 PM PDT reply actions
You may be on to something
Chavez started hitting badly after Diego was born...
Therefore, mandatory vasectomies for the team!
And fans too, so we can root all the better. Who is first?
Chavvy Rest of the Way
As I predicted at the break, now that the A's are completely out of it I genuinely expect Chavvy to hit really well the rest of the way. When there's no pressure and the AB doesn't really mean anything he's a very tough out. I'm not trying to be snide or sarcastic about this; it's just the truth.
too many players on the a's team
look preoccupied with off the field issues. not just ellis.
by oak1 on Jul 15, 2007 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I've noticed Cust
As much as I like the new young guy on the face of it, I think it was "subtraction by addition" when the team added Suzuki and dropped Melhuse. Sure Melhuse is rounding down his career, but there is some intangibles perhaps lost when he left. It was "early tinkering" by Beane, and I don't think it has paid off like more time for Melhuse might have. Just speculation.
by One won lost won on Jul 15, 2007 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Marty Lurie suggests some of the same trades we
do, and he thinks the Cubs would be interested in Kendall.
http://www.insidebayarea.com/athleti...
The A's should keep Mike Piazza. They should reinstate him as their cleanup hitter as soon as possible. Piazza still commands respect from the opposition. Piazza's mere presence would create some excitement in the lineup. Piazza's two-month absence has reduced his trade value significantly. I'd let him play out the year in Oakland.
The A's should do what it takes to trade Jason Kendall. Kendall would make a difference on the Cubs, a team in desperate need of a savvy backstop.
The team should offer Mark Kotsay to the Yankees. Johnny Damon's days as a center fielder are over. Melky Cabrera cannot carry Kotsay's glove. Kotsay may still be a productive hitter. The Yankees can afford to gamble on Kotsay regaining his stroke; the A's can't.
Joe Kennedy is one of the league's most effective pitchers versus left-handed hitters. The Mets, Tigers and Indians need left-handed relief help. One of those teams will gladly pay for Kennedy's services.
The Kotsay to Yankees thing still makes sense
without the stroke b/c defensively he's still solid.
i dont think it'll happen
Kotsay's trade value has never been lower. and the Yanks are pretty high on Cabrera and they're locked in with Damon for the next 2 years.
by oak1 on Jul 15, 2007 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Guys like Kotsay and Johnson,
who drag down the A's lineup because the A's have only medium-level hitters, would be upgrades in CF and 1B for the Yankees' lineup. Wouldn't the Yankees be interested in both? They might even want Kennedy, since their bullpen is in shambles and Mike Myers is having a bad year.
The Yankees absolutely think they're in the race, doublehustle22 (below). They've made up a 14-game deficit from Boston in their history, the Red Sox are playing poorly now, and the Yankees have an easy schedule for the next month.
Interesting Ideas
Of course, Lurie doesn't discuss what the A's or Giants might get back from all these trades. If you're trading your best (really, only) hitter, Shannon Stewart, to the Mets, can you ask for Lastings Milledge? Or how about Mike Pelfrey, whose first stint in the bigs was a huge bust? If you're sending Dan Johnson over to the Giants, is there anyone in their minor league system we might want? Can we get Jonathan Sanchez? (I'm half-kidding here: no way we get these players for what we're giving up).
Lurie also says the A's should sign Bonds as DH next year. He seems to be forgetting that Bonds has been extremely inconsistent this year, and really should consider retiring. It's a very odd comment, particularly given the existence of Jack Cust and his (hopeful) improvement as he learns MLB pitching.
The problem will all of Lurie's ideas, really, is that they're based on the fantasy that these teams would be willing to give up quality to get players who are inconsistent, geriatric, or frequently injured. I don't see it happening, and I really don't see either Beane or Sabean, even with big "For Sale" signs on their foreheads, doing too much dealing.
by richwol on Jul 15, 2007 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions
DJ to Giants doesnt make sense
they have Klesko/Aurilia at 1B this year. DJ's numbers dont put him in the class of an elite young player for whom top level pitching talent like a Sanchez will be made available. i'm sure Sabean's been hurting under Billy's shadow over the years and will be wary of what he gives up in return.
DJ to the Yanks/Twins makes more sense. Both teams still consider themselves as buyers. DJ is from Minnesota and the Twins do not have a regular DH apart from Rondell White who's been on the DL for a while now. The Yanks dont have a first baseman as well with Mientkiewicz on the DL and they could platoon DJ with Philips at 1B.
by oak1 on Jul 15, 2007 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions
agree on Piazza
i wouldnt mind seeing Piazza in an A's uniform next year. its not likely that we'll be able to attract the high profile free agents next year to improve our hitting and the farm system does look somewhat barren. Piazza as backup catcher and part-time DH next year would make help the offense as well and he's said several times that he's happy to be playing with the a's. a future hall of famer playing out his career in Oakland would be nice in more ways than one.
here are the players i'd like to see gone by the trade deadline: Kendall, Johnson, Kennedy, Kielty. they arent part of a winning future for the a's and we'll get close to nothing for these players in the offseason. hold off decisions on Crosby and Harden until the offseason to allow Billy to fully assess the market for replacement players. i'd like Suzuki to catch most of the games the remainder of the season so that we give time to grow into a starting role for next year.
by oak1 on Jul 15, 2007 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm on board with all those Lurie trades
even considering the fact that none of those three guys is worth much in trade. I say unload 'em anyway.
(I'm OK with DJ though. Him I want to trade only if we get something for it.)
I hope Beane was watching the soccer today...
the more athletic mostly black Brazilian team kicked the white/latino/italian Argentinian teams ass
by SalParadise on Jul 15, 2007 5:28 PM PDT reply actions
Hey, Sal Paradise
you are a Kerouac fan, aren't you?
Definitely
Kerouac's "On the Road" is one of my all time faves. Willie Nelson's version is pretty good too
by SalParadise on Jul 15, 2007 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Why does everyone
still think the Yankees are going to make a 2nd-half run, they're done stop talking about them, Alex is a curse, once he gets off that team they will be a glory house once again.
Alex is a Curse?
You actually believe the pundits, that the best player in baseball is a curse? Hey, I got a bridge to sell you, cheap, and I'll throw in its replacement once they connect it to Yerba Buena Island.
The Yankees are now one game over .500; their run differential would put them 13 games over .500. They are poised to make a MAJOR run for the Wild Card.
by richwol on Jul 15, 2007 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions
of course he's being silly
calling it a curse is admitting he's being superstitious. Just like trading Babe Ruth really didn't cause the BoSox to lose all those games - it just felt like a curse.
My apologies then...
I interpreted his post to mean that A-Rod was a clubhouse cancer, and the sooner he was gone, the sooner the Yankees would become a pennant contender again.
But no one would actually believe that a team would be better off without a player who whose line was .312-31-87 with an OPS of 1.067 just halfway through the season.
No one's that stupid, or insane.
by richwol on Jul 15, 2007 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Just like DFAing Milton Bradley
really didn't cause the 2007 Oakland A's to go into the tank -- it just felt like a curse.
Thinking outside the box...
I suppose this type of possibility would be more realistic if the Phillies were farther back in the division/WC race, but wouldn't it be great--and worth giving something of value up--to have a chance to sign Rowand without bidding against other teams?
It's almost funny
We are so bad right now, I can't help but laugh.
We've got probably one of the worst lineups ever assembled in this century.
Our young phenom pitcher is neither young nor a phenom, just a guy who makes a lot of visits to Dr. Yocum.
One of our best young pitchers tried to sumo-wrestle Ichiro.
Our ace looks like a caveman.
We just signed a guy for 3 years and $21 million last year who got caught driving drunk at about 30 mph faster than his best fastball. Oh and he's injured at least 3 different body parts so far.
We have a centerfielder with no vertebra left.
We have a shortstop who insists he needs to stick to his natural swing that has produced a career .230-ish average.
Our catcher, once said to have "redefined" the catching position, has now redefined hitting suckitude.
Our best hitter is a career AAAA guy.
Our best clutch hitter is a utility infielder.
Our third baseman has no working limbs.
Our second baseman has played with a throwing shoulder that isn't properly attached, even by baseball standards.
Our hot hitting leadoff man has the arm of any 12 year old not named Danny Almonte.
Our outfielder/first baseman had more hair length in inches than homeruns this year.
Our chair-throwing GM cut our chair-throwing outfielder.
Our former DH injured himself running on the bases and we tried to put him back at catcher, where he has terrible for the last 10 years.
Our set-up man is missing a hip.
Our closer is missing an elbow.
Our new closer is eligible for social security soon.
And our new set-up man had an identity crisis 2 years ago. Jairo Garcia? Santiago Casilla? At least they rhyme.
This is beginning to look like the crew from Major League. Ah, high-priced talent; forget about our players, they're only high-priced.
As if!
As if Danny Almonte was 12.
Nice summary. Though you forgot to mention that our trainer is 50 pounds overweight.
Excellent point
though I think 50 is generous!
LOL!
that's hilarious. but sums it up very well.
by oak1 on Jul 15, 2007 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I like it
by rubin sierra on Jul 15, 2007 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Kotsay to Yanks
It would be hard for me to watch Kots on the Yanks. As bad as he's been this year, I don't think I'll every forget that first season Kots had in Oakland. Forget the way he hit, although he was great. Man, that guy caught everything all year, one outstanding play after another. Remember that? Wow, that was fun. You almost looked forward to some guy mashing the ball deep into the alley.
I also think Kotsay is the least
of our problems. Sure, having 7 guys who hit as so-so as Kotsay is a huge problem, but unlike Johnson, Kotsay provides plus defense (and he's still a clear cut above Swisher or any other CF option), unlike Kendall he can hit better than .220 and slug better than .250, and unlike Crosby he does "little things" (moving runners over, making contact, etc.) well to supplement his so-so AVG/OBP/SLG.
That's why I think he's a good fit for the Yankees. If we had Jeter, A-Rod, Posada, and Matsui in our lineup, Kotsay would be a great fit for us.
Who would we get in return?
If Kotsay does go to NY or DJ to Minn, what do we get in return? More AAA prospects?
It would have to be AA or AAA prospects,
because those guys won't command impact major league players and the A's need to rebuild the depth and strength of their farm system--they need more Bucks, Bartons, and Melillos knocking at the door, and they need them at different positions: like SS, and C, and it never hurts to have more good young starting pitchers since many don't pan out (and since Windsor, Komine, and possibly Braden are not the answer).
That sentence was almost as long as the sentence I feel I'm serving waiting for the A's to win their 45th game.
Look at the bright side
At least you're not holding your breath waiting for it! I'm pretty sure we'll get win 45 before loss 50. :)
RE:
I feel sorry for Fosse and Kuiper who have to watch this mediocrate and interject enthusiasm into otherwise some of the most boring baseball I've witnessed in some time. The fact they pretty much booted Bradley out the door indicates to me that the white flags are coming out for '07.
This "building for the future plan" seems to be sop and I'm starting to wonder if the goal is to move into Cisco field with a descent team by 2011.
My question to ownership would be do you expect me as a paying customer to partake in boring .500 baseball for the next 5 yrs. with the expectation that by the time the A's move they'll be good and oh ya the ticket prices just doubled !
Lastly I'll leave ya'z with this thought, when me and my pals went to the A's Red Sox series at the colosseum I ended up striking a conversation with a boston transplant who happen to say between innings "I love your Oakland A's, your the best farm system the major leagues have ever had"
Does anyone remember when the Kansasa City A's used to be the farm club for the Yankees ???
In the immortal words of Yogi Berra "It's deja vu all over again."
by panamanianexpress on Jul 15, 2007 7:05 PM PDT reply actions
Except now we aren't producing
players other teams want, which is even worse. At one time, we produced Giambi, Tejada, Hudson, Mulder, and Zito, to have and then trade or to have and then lose, and now we're sinking with, or trying to sell, what, Johnson and Crosby? Devalued shells of Harden or Chavez?
But I don't really buy the idea
that this is all about being competitive in 2011. The best way to be competitive in 2011 is to be competitive now--it attracts fan interest, which is revenue, and it attracts player interest if you are a winning franchise. The A's have nothing to gain in 2011 by being less competitive now. Unless you think they're going to lower payroll, lose for a while, and save up to buy the A-Rods of baseball in 4 years. I really doubt that's the "master plan".
agreed
i think going into the season the a's really though they had a good chance of making the playoffs again. lew did loosen the purse strings a little -- our payroll is $80M (though we're getting $5M from the Pirates) that means we're no longer small market. the injuries hurt us to start the season and it all snowballed from there with Billy forced into decisions that he wouldnt have to make if this team was healthy.
even until the last homestand, i'm sure the a's front office still considered themselves with a shot of staying in the race though i'm sure Harden getting hurt again was another nail in the coffin heading into the Twins series.
by oak1 on Jul 15, 2007 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions
This year more than ever
I miss Bill King. I wonder what he would've had to say about this season and this team...actually, no, I think we all know what he would've had to say; what I wonder is how he would've put it. I do know it would've made me laugh and probably cry all at once.
"True that", as they say on The Wire....
One of the few high moments of the season was when I heard about the winners of the Bill King scholarship awards. I bought a "Holy Toledo" patch a year ago, which has a prominent spot next to my laptop.
by bakedzito on Jul 15, 2007 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Where is Oaktoon
at a moment like this to put all of this in proper perspective?
by AlBowe on Jul 15, 2007 7:39 PM PDT reply actions
I'll add my invective
because this seems to be the perfect place. Relax everyone, we had a good run. A really good run for several years. But all things end, and this season marks the end of an era for the A's. Time to regroup and reevaluate. What went wrong? Everything that could possibly go wrong....went wrong. It happens. Bean is mortal after all, but I don't think he will take this lightly. If anything, he is now positioned to do things he never could have before. He has operating capital, a few good young players to build around, and most of all....a future.
As much bile as we are spitting, I imagine Bean is red hot pissed off...and thinking. So I am going to content myself with watching what he does this month and in the off season....that, and watching some really sorry baseball.
Whoops, right you are.
Billy Beane vs Billy Bean. Both MLB prospects who didn't exactly pan out. One of them did, however, get the out part down.
Going down, like a condemned building....
I haven't been on here for quite awhile (note username), but watching the green-and-gold implode over the last 3 weeks has been about as much fun as a groin pull. The brutal truth is that this year's team needed everything had to go right--i.e. no injuries, no off-years from the regulars--if they wanted to contend with the Rally Monkeys Of Death.
Obviously, that hasn't happened...and more importantly, it isn't going to happen. Not with this sad, mismatched bunch. 10 1/2 games out of the wild card? Why even keep track? Seriously? Rebuild now and trade the veterans that can bring value, otherwise this cycle will continue until the A's move to the new ballyard.
by bakedzito on Jul 15, 2007 8:22 PM PDT reply actions
in order to make the playoffs
they probably have to go 50-20 to get to 94-68
I'd like to see Rich Harden traded for Salty
I'd trade Kotsay to the RedSux for Coco Crisp
I'd like to see Kennedy go to RedSux, Braves, Yankees, or Mets. Ideal would be to the Mets for Heilman.
I'd like to see what it would take to get Rocco or Wigginton from Devil Rays
I'd like to see if they can sign Mike Lowell.
Would anyone like to see Bobby Crosby for Julio Lugo trade?
I remember when Michael Lewis wrote about Salomon Brothers that was at the height of Wall Street and kinda went down from there. When he wrote about Netscape, that was their height and it went downhill. Perhaps Moneyball was the A's peak and now its going to head downhill
I'm starting to hope the A's finish
in the bottom 15 to get a protected draft pick. I'd go so far as to say that given the upcoming free agent class, the A's shouldn't even try to make their move until 2009 if they finish in the 16-22 range. What a depressing collection.
Second basemen
Jeff Kent (40) - $9MM club option vests with 550 PAs this year
Marcus Giles (30) - $4MM club option for '08
Luis Castillo (32)
Tadahito Iguchi (33)
Kaz Matsui (32)
Shortstops
Omar Vizquel (41)
David Eckstein (33)
Juan Uribe (29) - $5MM club option for '08
Cesar Izturis (28) - $5.45MM club option for '08
Third basemen
Alex Rodriguez (32) - Has ability to opt out of contract after season
Mike Lowell (34)
Mike Lamb (32)
Pedro Feliz (33)
Unless Luis Castillo a. can play shortstop, and b. hits the juice so that he can actually hit the occasional double, if not a home run, there isn't a guy on here who's both affordable and any good.
There are some decent catchers out there, but that's the one position where the A's can be fairly certain that the farm system cavalry is actually coming. 3/45 mil. for Posada would NOT be a good idea.
I'd like to see the team pick up ...
Mike Fontenot from the Cubs. He is hitting .343. 5 for 13 in his last 3 games and is the oddman out on the team. The Cubs have DeRosa and Izturis ahead of him. So get rid of Cros and hire Mike.
I love that idea!
It's brilliant. Get rid of Crosby and replace him with--
--Ok, now I need to go read the post again to see who you're actually talking about...
...Fontenot, sure, never heard of him, sounds great...
closetasfan, I think the gist of your thinking too, though I'd go after Rowand, not Lowell, in the FA market meself.
A couple red flags on Fontenot--
- He hit a sizzling .379 in June, then is hitting just .179 in July. So he's had one good month, and his overall stats are still riding high on that month.
- He has walked 4 times in 108 ABs.
He's also listed as a 2Bman, not a SS.
What about Matt Murton? Could he be pried now? Maybe a deal involving Harden and Kendall for Murton and Fontenot...? I dunno. I'm not good on trades.
Would Colorado go for this?
How about sending Kennedy back to Colorado and packaging him with Crosby for Troy Tulowitzki and a minor league prospect?
I guess if I were Colorado
I'd say, "Sounds promising...But instead of Kennedy let's talk about Gaudin..." Problem is, Crosby's hitting .222 and Kennedy has had exactly one good year as a starter. There has to be a "centerpiece" to get the Rockies to part with someone like Tulowitzki, who is young and is having a really solid year at a key position where most teams are weak. They hold the cards with Tulowitzki.
Calorado would say a big NO
Colarado would not trade Tulowitzki even if the A's offered Blanton for him. He is their #1 future player and they love him. It does give me another idea with that trade proposal. Trade Kennedy for Clint Barnes. He was a starter for them until the injury and is now in AAA. He can hit and is average defensively. Could be a better option than 220 crosby.
I was just about to ask about Barnes.
I wondered what had become of him. How's he doing in the minors?
You mean Clint Barmes?
I'm not as excited about him. :) Looks like the Rockies are grooming him for 2B now. He is hitting well in the minors this year (over .300). He struggled in the majors in April and last year.
Lol...he can misspell
his name anyway he wants as long as he hits over .260 with some solid D as an A.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to be mean
I agree with you alox that would be an upgrade :)
What would you give up to take a chance on Barmes? If Colorado is grooming him to be a 2B, they'll want another 2B prospect in return, wouldn't they? Gaudin seems steep to me. Kennedy and Melillo?
Hey, no problem.
You were right to point it out.
I guess what matters most is what kind of value do the Rockies place on him? Do they have other 2b prospects? No way do I give up Gaudin or Haren. Kennedy yes. But who do you package with him? Kotsay and Kendall? Throw in another reliever for a prospect or two lower down the pecking order? Absolutely. What else do they have that's worth looking at? Bundle Hardin in there too and see if they don't bite a little harder...assuming they have prospects we could use in a year or two. At this point I think 2008 is a lost cause also. So why not pack the farm system as deep as possible and get rid of dead weight that others are willing to take a chance on? About the only thing I'm not willing to part with is good pitching....aside from Swisher and Buck.
My hope is that Beane is able to engineer a multi team trade that gives each of the other teams something they feel they need now in exchange for the A's garnering a lot of prospects.
Aaron Rowand?!
Normally I like your take on things, but going after an injury-prone centerfielder who's having a career year in his "walk year" (see: Beltre, Adrian), when the A's desperately need talent in the infield and behind the plate, strikes me as... strange. Especially with two centerfielders already on the roster for next year.
he had a big 2004, also
.905 OPS that year, .901 so far this year. .736 and .745 in between....
by Cutthemullet on Jul 15, 2007 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I always liked Rowand,
even before he had his breakout year with the White Sox. I like his short, quick swing, he has both speed and power, he should be in his prime through his next contract, he's hard-nosed (though not as hard-nosed as he had hoped), and he plays a good CF. Among players we might actually be able to afford (I think Torii Hunter will go for too much), I think he's the best out there.
And I don't think we have a CF for 2008 that will help us on a team that has too many light-hitters at too many positions--Kotsay will continue to decline and is not a "plus hitter" anymore (I consider him average), and no one else plays a suitable CF. We probably can't add that "plus hitter" at SS or C, so CF is one place we could try for.
Barnes doing good
batting 313 with a little power.
Worst team since 1998
So would it be that hard to just give up on Dan Johnson? At least there are no serviceable every day back-ups to Crosby. When the A's are slumping, there is no more poignant epitome of the woe than Dan Johnson. He is pathetic. And he has been pathetic 3 summers in a row. His playing time is an insult to the fan base, especially since Swisher and a different OF combo affords more option. His presence in the starting lineup is sheer bullheaded stupidity.
It was a fun nine year streak. Each one of those years entertained the loyal and allowed us to dream. This one will not be turned around soon with Geren. Not him personally, rather his total lack of charisma - these guys are playing for the "C" letter grade and the paycheck. This team is asleep at the wheel and Geren is at least partially responsible. I wish we had a better leader like Macha. The guy won a few games and had nothing close to the season we are having this year.
by Sashulia on Jul 15, 2007 11:50 PM PDT reply actions
wow
myself i have never been sold that dj was a full time major leaguer either, but i wouldn't say his playing time insults the fans base. hitting 257 with an 812 ops is semi respectable and sadly, looks like a true masher compared to everyone else save about 4 guys the a's current roster.
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