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Underachieving A's

I was going to post this in an existing thread but I got too caried away and it really turned into a diary.

Star-divide

Lately there has been an incredible amount of dumping on "underachieving" A's players who are totally overpaid, let's look at a few things.  

What did Kendall hit last year..........Yeah 295 and the year before a respectable 271.  Meanwhile the Pirates are picking up a chunk of his salary, and still people are reacting as if we gave Antonio Perez a 1 year $100 million deal. The guy has been solid behind the dish for three years, and we all remember the play in Texas where he blocked the plate with his face (how many people were down on Kendall then), or when he body slammed
Lackey WITH Jose Molina on his back.  This guy has contributed so much to the team in his short tenure and people want to rip his head off for one bad year.  How short is your memory really.

Crosby.  Essentially this is his second full year in the bigs coming 2 years removed from his first due to injuries.  He aint that great, and you gotta give a guy a couple years to figure it out.  The A's WILL address the situation next year, in the meantime not much you can do but say whoops Billy maybe this was a scouting gaffe.

Kotsay.  The guy just got back from major back surgery and has been a solid contributor for the A's on offense and defense for the past few years, albeit not Vlad Guerrero numbers but solid numbers for what he is getting paid (7 mil a year).  He will get it together this year and hit 270-285.  

Chavez.  This one is the hardest to swallow I understand due to the alternatives to the franchise contract being named Miguel Tejada and Jason Giambi, but the fact of the matter is his defense is unparalleled at third over the past 6 years. (yes I understand there are some ANers who will swear by his range not being great anymore because a rocket on turf got by him, but I am talking over the past 6 years).  He has dealt with some nagging injuries and because he is a man he has played through them and not made a fuss.  He has a very uniquely subtle way of going about his business that works for him.  Now he has not been a top ten in the league run producer over the life of his contract and I can understand the frustration and demand with a typically weak offense, but he knows that the other players admire his toughness and unspoken leadership and has played through the injuries to put together decent years the past two seasons.  Better I would imagine than any other major leaguer would (could you really imagine Manny Ramirez playing through pain, and not sitting back waiting for the stretch run?)  Chavez is human, step back and think about that as your carpel tunnel frustrates you as you type while he swings at 95mph fastballs with aching forearms.

Swisher.  Why in the name of Zeus' butthole is no one on this guy.  People will rag on Chavez until the end of time, even when he does produce ("it was a meaningless homerun, that's why he did it"), but Swisher has freefallen to a 258 avg with 2 hr since MAY.  Some may be cutting him slack because he is still young (2nd full season), remind you of anyone else getting no slack....cough Crosby cough.

I am just as sick if not more than most of you at seeing these players in particular fail, but let's be realistic.  Our expectations are very high since a winning product has been so common lately.  These are humans playing baseball not robots with numbers popping out each year in a predictable graded increase.  Things happen, and lack or morale and injuries have simply caught up to the A's in 2007.  I don't blame them, and I will not stop watching them.

End of sermon.

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Comments

Display:

Good one

Fair enough, I'd say. All the guys above just aren't very good. It's not as if they aren't making the effort. It's just that they aren't very good.

by RLangford on Jul 14, 2007 11:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Okay... I'll bite...

Kendall, even those numbers the past couple of years didn't justify the salary.  And quite frankly, the complete lack of power and frequency of weak ABs doesn't justify his game calling.  Mr. DP has had some nice moments sure, but shoving your face into the plate may get you a round of applause but it hardly makes up for the craptastic offense.  For most of the season he had the worst offensive numbers in all of baseball.  Seriously.  That's not easy to do, but he did it while making the most money on the team.

Crosby has nearly three full years of experience at the major league level by ABs (nearly the same as Swisher).  Yes, it's been broken up a bit by injuries, but that actually counts against him in my book.  Now that Mr. Glass "Bones" is healthy he's showing poor plate discipline and a futile unwillingness to make adjustments all of which make his ABs frequently predictable... frequently bad.  If there were a better option, he'd be gone by now.  Luckily for him, there hasn't been.

Kotsay I partially agree with.  He's been slowly getting worse each year after a great first year.  Mostly this is because of injuries, but the problem is he's reaching an age where it's difficult to separate the decline from age versus a decline from being out for so long.  Odds are it's as much, if not more so, the former than the latter.

Chavez I mostly agree with you on.  My only problem with him is there seems to a lack of life with him.  I'm not talking about being a fiery personality, I just want to see some energy and right now he's just going through the motions.  But that's a consistent problem all across the board for the team.

Swisher is getting slack because he's still one of the best offensive performers on a this ridiculously poor offensive team.  Third in homers, first in RBIs, solid OBP & OPS.  He's a had a horrible July and following a poor June.  No denying that.  But based on everything we've seen from Swisher this is simply a slump.

Most of these players could easily be ignored if the offensive as a whole was performing

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by DMOAS on Jul 15, 2007 12:26 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It Takes a Big League Catcher to Appreciate , , ,

. . . Kendall.  Geren is a catcher.  He knows what he is doing when he plays Kendall.

Right now the whole team is in an offensive slump.  It's easy to critize them.  Instead, I'd like to thank then for playing .500 ball the first half of the season.  When the season started the team was without Kotsay, Bradley and Piazza.  These guys would have collectively hit about .300, scored and  driven in a lot of runs.  That's a THIRD OF THE LINEUP FOLKS AND VERY EASILY THE SECOND, THIRD, AND FOURTH batters.  Take the second, third, and fourth batters out of the lineup of any other team and see  if they play as well.

No one like losing but it will pass.  These guys are busting their buts and need some love.

Jim

by jarforcefatherofforce on Jul 15, 2007 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Regarding Swisher & Chavez

Setting aside perceptions about "energy", "life", and all those other dispositional attributes we like to believe we can accurately gauge by watching players on television, they are certainly headed in opposite directions offensively:

Since 6/1:

Chavez .262/.331/.523
Swisher .200/.337/.319

I wonder if Swish isn't playing through some injury (or multitude of injuries) we don't know about. 165 PA's with a .319 SLG might be indicative of something more than just a slump. And as for Chavvy, it seems reasonable to conclude that this (mostly ignored) semi-resurgence is the product of diminished forearm pain. Which (maybe, hopefully, knock on wood) means it might actually continue.

by 74mk on Jul 15, 2007 9:47 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

a couple responses

Let's not forget that in the Kendall deal we unloaded two pitchers who are so bad that they are no longer even contributing and together were making even more than Kendall, Rhodes (60-day DL) and Redman (0-4 11.63 ERA).  We were able to get rid of these guys AND get Pittsburgh to pick up a chunk of Kendall's contract which they, not the A's, gave him.  All in all still a great deal all things considered.

I disagree with you a bit about the Crosby injuries, many of them were quite flukey and having consistent ab's is how you really get going at the plate (albeit he has done nothing to prove that this year).  Like I said I am 100% certain the A's will do something about this in the offseason, in the meantime try and hit your way out Crosby, because there are no other viable options at SS.

Your problem with Chavez is the problem I think a lot of people have with Chavez and that is the visibility and/or physicality of his emotions.  I addressed this in the original diary but that is just not the way he operates.  That may work for you and me and other guys on the team (Swisher) but it simply is not how he lives as a person.  I don't blame him and I think as I said earlier the unassuming leadership IS reacted to by the other players.  Let's also remember he has a young son who doesn't need to see his dad on tv throwing the bat after a strikeout or cussing out the ump after a call.  Plain and simple that isn't how Chavez does business.

I completely agree with your final statement:
"Most of these players could easily be ignored if the offensive as a whole was performing"

You're killing me smalls!

by marco magic on Jul 15, 2007 9:50 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

See..

I think the "We dumped salary for salary" argument is absolute BS.  Both those two bad contracts expired and we can easily dump a salary and get next to nothing in return allowing us to spend that money wiser.  It may not be a popular move (something for nothing) but it happens accidently so often anyways (see Hudson trade) doing it on purpose can at times be the smart move (possibly Kotsay, Crosby, etc.).  To say Kendall was the best option is just wrong.

As for Chavy, the point isn't about throwing bats or even getting upset.  It's a certain amount of effort into a play and slowly but surely there's less there.  Swisher will crash into a wall and Chavez used to range out and make amazing attempts too.  While I'm not asking for him to go out and get hurt and I'm still willing to cut him some slack still (i.e. I haven't given up on him), his attempts to make plays and give good ABs is in the decline and that's the sort of "life" I want to see more of, not less.  I don't care about the tantrums and I can respect pulling up a little bit because of injuries, but part of me strongly believes that he isn't doing it because of the risk of injury, it's because he's not trying hard enough (and I hope I'm completely wrong on that).

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by DMOAS on Jul 15, 2007 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

With the Kendall deal,

I think BB and everyone involved thought that we'd get a lot more out of Kendall than we have. Higher BA, higher OBP, and a higher slugging from the doubles he hit in Pittsburgh but apparently left behind when he was traded. I don't blame the move on BB, I blame it on Kendall for absolutely stinking up the joint. There is no way you could see THIS coming.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin, Seattle Mariners

by Helloooo 1st on Jul 15, 2007 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay...

A catcher with "good" numbers in a hitters park, in a weaker league, fresh from an injury, plays a LOT of games moving to a big pitcher park in the stronger league... sucking... no, you really couldn't see... okay, I'm kidding, there's no way I saw it coming either, but the signs were certainly there in hindsight wouldn't you say?  But joking aside, if you want to argue that we were trading two bad players for one "good" player, that's one thing.  And based on when it happened, it's a very fair thing to say and I wouldn't bother to argue that point.  Even though I wasn't for the trade at the time, purely based on the numbers at the time I certainly wasn't against the trade either.  My basic point above wasn't that it was a foreseeably bad deal so much as the "salary dump" for "salary dump" in any occasion is absolute BS... nothing more, nothing less.  

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Jul 15, 2007 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

contracts

I'll let someone else address the larger question of whether the salary dump made the trade necessary and just point out one factual error.

It's not true that Redman and Rhodes "together were making more even than Kendall".

Redman's contract was due to pay him $4.25 million in 2005, and then he had a player option for $4.5 million in 2006.  Rhodes's contract was due to pay him $2.6 million in 2005 and $4.8 million in 2007. Both contracts were fully expired by 2007.

Kendall's contract paid him $10 million in 2005, $11 million in 2006, and $13 million in 2007.  Pittsburgh agreed to pay $5.5 million of Kendall's 2007.

So as you can see, in no year were Redman plus Rhodes making more than Kendall.

All of this info is available at Cots.

"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Jul 16, 2007 1:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is Swishers

Third full season. 2005 was his rookie year.

"I Will Not Relent, I Am Driven"... Clutch
Bring Back The Bash!!!

by Shippee33 on Jul 15, 2007 9:59 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The reason Swisher is getting slack

is that he's the best hitter on the team, and everyone knows it. It's not just "potential" with him-- he hit 36 home runs last season. You don't do that by accident. No question his "junior slump" is troubling-- he seems to be trying too hard. I've never seen someone swing so hard he falls over as often as Swisher does. I think he'll eventually realize that we don't expect him to hit a home run every time he goes up there, and start doing a lot better.

Chavez is an enigma as ever, but his power hasn't evaporated. As long as that's the case, he'll be a valuable contributor, even if it's from the lower third of the lineup.

Kotsay is a guy who's clearly on the downslope. He can still contribute, but Chris Denorfia will have that job by next spring.

The other two are not defensible. Kendall hasn't gotten nearly enough criticism for "calling bad games" when the A's lose big, and his offense has been unquestionably the worst in the majors. The A's could designate him for assignment tomorrow, call up J.D. Closser (I'd say Jeremy Brown but they seem to be converting him to a corner infielder, which makes a lot of sense) and be a better team. Not "as good." Better. His value is actively negative.

As for Crosby, I've already discussed him at length (see "The Crosby Paradox") and concluded that he needs a total overhaul to have any chance of success.

by PaulThomas on Jul 15, 2007 11:42 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Kendall doesn't receive

criticism for the blowout games simply because there aren't enough to be worried about or even start blaming the catcher. When a blowout occurs it usually happens once every blue moon and when that's the case it's all on the pitcher (see Kennedy, Joe). If blowouts are continually happening then you can blame the catcher for poor game calling.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin, Seattle Mariners

by Helloooo 1st on Jul 15, 2007 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent Post ... But Some Criticisms Are On

At some level I'm quite guilty of being down on the usual suspects, as noted above.

However, I think the big frustration with Kendall and Chavez and Crosby isn't so much that they can't hit so much as it is that every at bat seems exactly like the last at bat.  Crosby is probably the most obvious suspect here.  Yes, it's just his second full season, but, guess what Bobby?, here comes a breaking ball three inches outside!  You might want to, you know, stand closer to the plate, or maybe shorten your swing, or maybe take it to right ... or maybe swing like a banshee for strike three and hit .215 this year.  Kendall's the same way - giving every indication his goal in most ABs is a weak fly to right - unless there's a runner on, in which case he looks like he's trying to hit a ground ball to the second baseman.  Hey, Jason, you have to swing harder than that, because the outfielders and now 175 feel from home plate.  

But there are just no adjustments whatsoever, so you don't even get the sense that there's hope.  That's where the frustration comes from, I think.  

by solotar on Jul 15, 2007 4:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Crosby has 1572 at bats

that is about 3 years worth of at bats. That is plenty of at bats to adjust and learn the league. But Crosby's problem is his almost refusal to adjust or even tweak his approach in the least bit. He stands so far from the plate it is ridiculous. Everyone in the world except him it seems has known since his rookie year that the easiest way to strike him out is throw a breaking pitch outside, he'll chase it every time. Also he broke his back swinging! If that doesn't tell him something then he is beyond hope.

In England all A's fans are "Athletic Supporters"

by Athletics Fan In London on Jul 16, 2007 4:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Who is worth what they are getting paid?

I dont care how they got there contract at the time or wheather it was worth it at the time. Or how they did 2 years ago.  I think all our pitchers are worth the money with the exeption of Loiza, but Postion players that are WORTH the salary they are getting paid today:

Swisher- worth every penny
Stewart- too bad we didnt sign him for 3 years at 3m
Ellis- just about maxed out on Salary vrs. value
Johnson-Avg player at bargin price.Still worth it
as a backup, platoon player or pinch hitter

Buck-does anyone have anything bad to say?
Cust-gold mine of value and why Piazza is notplaying
Susuki and any other rookies- all good
Scuturo- worth it as a capable backup at two postions and his "clutch"

NOT worth it

Crosby- would be worth it at league min as a backup with potential, but not any more at this point
Kotsay- we overpaid him for 3 years why?
Kendall- if a player could be worth money NOT to play he would be on top of that list
Piazza- still worth it to another team but not us
Kielty- worth league min but don't know if he has much potential at this point for the money.

jurys out- Chavez.  he does have 15 hr and 46 rbi's and plays + defense. all his negative's are bad, but his contract is cheap comparitavly and He is still worth it in my book.

So rather than working on getting rid of guys or bashing guys who ARE worth it: Johnson, Chavez.  
Lets DFA, trade, bench or talk shit about guys who are NOT: Crosby, Kotsay, Kendall, Piazza, Keilty.

 

 

"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do". - Asimov

by Anarch on Jul 16, 2007 4:53 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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