I've got Kendall's back; Who's with me?
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 12:56 PM PDT
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PrintIf Mr. Fosse honestly believes that Mr. Kendall is a kick-ass pitch caller, then that's probably true, because it takes one to know one.
It's important to throw the right pitches to the right hitters at the right times. Many pitchers these days have always taken the signs from their catchers, and never learned to call their own game. That's why it's important to have a catcher who knows the hitters, knows the strengths and weaknesses of his staff, and is a monster in the video room, looking for any little edge he can use against the opposition.
Some pitchers, of course, call their own game, and any signals given by the catcher are merely to make sure the catcher and pitcher are on the same page.
However, it seems like most of the pitchers on the Athletics are not tactitians out on the mound and throw what Mr. Kendall calls. If it is true that Kendall is a great pitch caller out there, then we all need to be aware that he's basically the defensive captain out there, and even though the pitcher is doing the work of throwing the pitch, Kendall's the guy at the chessboard plotting his moves hitters and innings in advance.
Just as we have to count the 25-30 runs a year Chavez saves on defense (as opposed to an average 3rd baseman) we have to count the runs that Kendall saves through calling the right pitch at the right time.
The A's pitching staff is made up of a lot of great arms, but without strong leadership behind the plate, those arms won't be used most effectively.
Even if he only hits .200 on the season, I want to see Mr. Kendall behind the plate as the #1 catcher for the rest of the year, and have high hopes that Mr. Beane can sign him cheap for next year in order to mentor Mr. Suzuki and hopefully help him learn to become as good a defensive catcher as Mr. Kendall.
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I'm with you
he's a gamer and a game-caller, if he was there they would have won the division in '04... still think his bat will come around just enough. and how can I root against a guy who gave my son his bat?
Saint gave him props earlier in another diary
but yeah, i'm with ya. I just hope he starts to hit so people can get off his damn back. He is a career .300 hitter, well officially .298. And he has proven to heat it up in the 2nd half, so we'll see.
And as for signing him for cheap next season, I don't see that happening.
hmm...
I'd like to see him managing this club one day. Not anytime soon, of course.
Maybe I'm naive, but I can't see him making more than $2 million next year.
If he's really on the decline, which offensively, he obviously is, I'd love to have him as a backup catcher + extra coach next year, even if he's overpaid for the position.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I see it happening. I see it happening a lot.
First of all, who else will want him, considering what he's been hitting the last few seasons? When Gregg Zaun is outhitting you, things are grim.
Second, he IS a gamer, and I think he really does care about this ballclub, and I could totally see him willingly taking a player/coaching role as Suzuki nears his time.
And third, we're going to need him for a season or two, until we're 100% certain Zook can handle a big league rotation.
rock on, my aussie canuck brother...
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 6, 2007 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he's got good stratgem
by mlleaimee on Jun 5, 2007 1:07 PM PDT reply actions
The A's should keep him if he's cheap,
and willing to understand he's a player/coach, and not the #1 catcher. Then, he can be groomed to be the bench coach, and eventually manage somewhere.
I have the feeling Mr. Geren will be here for a while, and I'm okay with that. I like him a lot.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm with you!!!
Now, what we want to do is probably break it into pieces and then burn it, and then scatter the ashes at sea --
Oh, wait a second. I thought you said you had Kendall's bat.
Never mind.
hmm...
I wonder if voodoo rituals would help his offense. I'm down for it if anyone else is. I'll supply the eye of newt and the pig's blood.
Even if it doesn't work though, I still want him catching and batting 9th 5 days a week.
Mind you, I'm totally okay with pinch hitting for him late in close games where getting a run might be more important than preventing a run.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Need bigger JuJu
Some one needs to provide the live chicken.
My Mistake!
I thought you said, "You have Kendall's BAT!"
I was wondering where it went.
If you have Kendall's back
Then who took Kotsay's back?
I have Kotsay's back, too...
I keep it in a jar in my rumpus room.
I let him use it on gamedays.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I really, really want to be with you
(on this topic, that is, not in the soap-opera-euphemism sense)...
But do we know that Melhuse is significantly worse at calling pitches, or "worse enough" so that it would be detrimental to give him more regular playing time?
depends on who you trust...
Ray Fosse was one of the best pitch callers of his era, and he says that Kendall's good at it. So does Mr. Geren. I take their word for it.
If you, on the other hand, don't take their word for it, then so be it.
I've been a pitcher in competitive amateur ball, and I can attest to the value of a catcher who knows good pitchcalling strategy and the weaknesses of the opposing hitters. A guy like that can shave a point off your ERA, easy.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't doubt the importance of pitchcalling...
I also don't doubt that Kendall is good at it. But I haven't heard that Melhuse isn't good at it.
I still think Kendall should be our #1 catcher (and THANK YOU, MR. GEREN! for putting him at the bottom of the order every day), I'm not even suggesting he & Melhuse should split 50-50. But I'd like to see Melhuse's bat given more of a chance. Kendall can certainly be a part of game-planning and helping the pitchers study particular upcoming opponents without being the everyday starter.
Melhuse must've been brilliant last night
if Casilla's results are an indication.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jun 5, 2007 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Casilla only has two pitches...
but with someone like Blanton that has to use a lot of finesse to get people out, a catcher like Kendall is a necessity.
Jamie Moyer with Dan Wilson during the Seattle days is a great example. When Moyer had to pitch to an inferior catcher, he wouldn't have the same results, and he'd be shaking off a lot of calls, because he and his catcher weren't on the same page.
Some pitchers wouldn't be confident enough to shake off the calls, and would throw what they told.
As you know, boys and girls, a pitch thrown without confidence is what's called a "Gopher ball."
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
So, now that Dan Wilson has long retired
Moyer sucks?
Moyer's ERA+ in Wilson's last couple seasons is pretty much the same as right now.
Everyday experience is important.
If you see the same hitters several times a year, from up close, and maybe even talk to them a little to get in their heads, and you've been doing so for a decade now, chances are you're about as experienced in pitch-calling as anyone could be.
Melhuse rides a lot of pine, and though he probably gets the same scouting reports and game videos pre-game, there's nothing like being there.
bull!
pitch calling is as complicated as chess and high stakes poker, and I'm getting a little tired of people who never pitched or caught past little league treating it as anything less.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 6, 2007 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Um... I'm kind of agreeing with you.
that's cool.
I misinterpreted. You still rock. Pitch calling is still rocket science, quantum physics and fencing all rolled into one.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 6, 2007 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Correct on all counts.
I'm glad you agree that you need a shower.
Yeah...I might even brush my teeth
I hear some folks actually do that daily, or even twice daily.
screw teeth...
it's all about gumming yr food!
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm with you Poppy
I don't think it would be detrimental at ALL to give Melhuse more time. He actually CAN bat. He also does a decent job of calling games. Even if he does call too many hanging sliders.
by mlleaimee on Jun 5, 2007 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
No way . . .
I think Kendall's game calling is way overrated . . . even if Fosse says it.
Think back to the Ramon days when everyone was arguing that trading him would be a mistake because he "grew up" calling games for the Big 3. Did it matter?
What about when people said the pitchers had gotten used to Damian Miller and changing catchers would be bad?
Or when people were worried about Rick Peterson leaving because it would impact the pitchers. Nope.
Bottom line: A's pitchers would pitch well with you or me catching.
And Kendall's calling is suspect many times . . . how many runs have been scored on 0 - 2 pitches with Kendall calling the game over the past 3 years? Think about it - a lot. He gets way too much credit for what he shouldn't: a good pitching staff.
When Susuki is calling games next year and hitting for some power, people will wonder why he was not called up sooner.
Is Kendall tough? Sure.
Is he gritty? Sure.
Do I like him cuz he tackled slingblade? Hell yes!
Will I miss him next year? Not at all.
A's pitchers would be horrible
with you catching.
The club would be 8 games under .500 with you catching, even if you hit the .240 that Melhuse would hit... unless you've spent thousands of hours studying video and theory and truly understand what pitches to call in what situations.
If you've never pitched, or never caught, there's just no way you can know how much the cat and mouse battle between pitcher and catcher on one side, and hitter on the other, affects the game. In fact, it can be argued that the other 7 fielders and baserunners are just a peripheral part of the game, compared to the duel in the box.
I'm down for having a catcher who's weak on defense and pitch calling, as long as the pitchers know the hitters inside and out and never choose the wrong pitch for the wrong situation. However, that's not the kind of staff this club has. This club needs a strong strategist behind the dish, even if he hits .200.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Melhuse gets to the clubhouse
At the same time as Kendall. He watches the films too. He goes over all the same strategy and all the rest. I find it insulting insinuate that Melhuse is half-assin' it. That guy works hard to get whatever he can scrounge from the scraps he's given. The fact that he isn't given a chance ONCE a week even though Kendall needs rest and isn't working to his lifetime potential is maddening. Whether you think Melhuse is gritty enough or not for you, he has the ability to play.
Anyway, grit is for kitty litter.
by mlleaimee on Jun 5, 2007 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Melhuse is totally half-assing it...
I think "Melhuse" is Middle German for "one and only one buttcheek."
And if you're arguing for the idea of playing Melhuse once a week; I'm totally with you on that. Either on Wednesday/Thursday getaway/day games, or Sunday afternoons...
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I too see scouting reports and watch tapes.
But if you think I could call a game as well as the guy who stands two feet from the bat, you're high.
Melhuse's view of the batters we face is worse than yours, sitting at home watching TV. Kendall is right there, seeing the ball move, seeing how the wind is working against the ball, getting a feel for hitters up as close as you can get without losing teeth on a backswing.
That you don't get that such a spot gives you a better perspective than a guy leaning against the Gatorade tub indicates you're not thinking it through.
exactly, but...
as much as there is the on-the-fly element of gamesmanship inherent in pitch calling, much of the work is already done by the time the game starts.
The key is being enough of a bulldog to do the work. Fans seem to assume that all catchers are as hardcore as Kendall is and Matheny was, and they're spending all their clubhouse time buried in the charts and in the video room, but that's not true at all. Of course, in this modern era, even the laziest catchers have to spend a little bit of time with the modern tools, but very few are as hardcore about it as Kendall is and Matheny was.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 6, 2007 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I pretty much agree with you...
about most of your post. But Blanton does do better with Kendall. But as for the other guys? I bet they could get use to Melhuse...and with Melhuse there's hope for a big hit. With Kendall? Nil. :-(
Blanton does better with Kendall.
So does Gaudin. So does DiNardo.
So do many of the relievers.
I don't care if Kendall gets the big hit. That's not what he's here for.
I get the feeling that most of the people that are anti-Chavez and anti-Kendall kinda wish in their heart of hearts that the A's had less pitching and more hitting and won games 7-4 and 8-5 rather than 2-0 and 4-1 and 3-2. I guess offense keeps the casual fan interested. I prefer pitcher's duels, all the way... but I'm not a casual fan, either.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 6, 2007 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
The problem is...
he never gets any hits.
It would probably be better at this point to just concede the out and give Kendall a rest during his ABs.
Stuff and nonsense
Two replies:
First, if Kendall's such a great pitch caller then let him do it from the bench. Many teams, maybe even a majority, have a manager or coach calling the pitches from the bench. Let Kendall's ersatz pitch-calling talent shine from there, without the burden of him in the lineup.
Second, as I linked in the Geren tactics front-pager: The numbers mavens at Baseball Prospectus believe that there's no measureable reason to believe that a catcher's pitch calling talent makes any difference whatsoever to the team's end result.
I would love to see
the 2012 Athletics, managed by Jason Kendall, with an offensive minded catcher on the field, with each and every pitch personally selected and signaled by Mr. Kendall.
And if some bumbling GM were to be stupid enough to trade someone like Russell Martin or Jarrod Saltalamacchia to us, then I'm all for benching Kendall. It's not gonna happen, though.
I'm just trying to make the point that if some of the fans had their way, and Kendall and Chavez were gone, this club would go down the toilet without them, because their defense and intangibles make up for what they lack on offense.
And I know some people see a win as a win, but I have to admit I'd rather see a 2-1 pitchers' duel than a 7-6 slugfest anyday.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
plus:
some things in baseball are unmeasurable and always will be.
I like to see balance between the seamheads and the scouts; the rational and the mystical...
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Some of those things are unmeasurable
because they don't actually exist. Kendall is tangibly awful while his compensating skills are mere rumors.
just because something is unmeasurable
does not mean that it does not exist.
Psychic powers exist. God exists. Angels exist (they play 81 home games a year in Anaheim, right?).
Don't try to take the perspective of a deity looking down on creation when you are merely an ant looking up.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions
HIRE URI GELLER NOW!!!
good to know I'm not the only one ...
... who thinks of UG every time I hear/read Spooneybarger's name.
I love Spooneybarger...
He's out of the game now, right?
I loved his interview with Chinmusic magazine (the late lamented punk rock and baseball 'zine out of SF)... I think it was in the same issue that Billy Beane interviewed Johnny Ramone and vice versa.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Kendall just hasn't been the same since ...
... Beane banned Orgone Boxes from the clubhouse.
you know what...
I think Wilhelm Reich hit .340 in the 3-I league back in 1936.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
i'd like to see the 2012 Athletics
managed by Geren. if he's still here, that means that things are going well.
Hmm.. pitchers say calling helps. Managers say it
Ray Fosse says it.
But hey, if the wonks at BP say it doesn't exist, let's just put our DHs in catcher gear and do away with the specialists altogether, huh?
Seamheads can only go so far...
just like atheists say that God does not exist, seamheads say that things that cannot be measured do not exist.
Atheism was a necessary step up from dogmatic monotheism, just as sabermetrics were a necessary step up from projection scouting.
However, it's time to step up from sabermetrics, just as many religious seekers stepped up from atheism to new age religion.
Sabermetrics are nice, but the intangibles must be equally respected, such as clutch hitting, pitch calling, and clubhouse chemistry. I would even add that energies projected from the fans affect game outcomes on the quantum level.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 6, 2007 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Chavez saves 25-30 runs
on defense as opposed to the average 3rd baseman? Really?
No
His FRAP is 25-30 runs in his best years, with a 31 as peak. His FRAA peak was 17, and was 16 last year.
by BlameChannel53 on Jun 5, 2007 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
oh no, please no, no more
writing a "i got kendell's back" is as crazy as another "meyer is really kicking ass in sac" diary. why would you have kendell's back? what has he done to deserve it? listen, the guy may have "heart" but he SUCKS making 11 million per!!! now, i have no ill feelings for kendell's salary. good for him. but billy really blew it on this. do you have any idea how many catchers there are who hit .200, possess average defensive skills but call a good game and are liked by their pitching staff? a dime a dozen...but certainly not @ 11 million bones per....except one.
no he doesn't suck.
Someone who sucks is someone who fellates homosexuals. I'd go into that further, but I covered it in the "14 commandments for A's fans" thread.
As someone who fellates homosexuals, it is okay to say that I suck, but seeing as how Mr. Kendall most probably is not engaged in that extracurricular activity, it would be inappropriate to suggest so.
And catchers who can call a good game are not a dime a dozen. They're rare and beautiful and should be cherished as such. Many teams' games are called by the pitchers (at least the starters), and from the bench.
I don't care if he gets another base hit all season, as long as he keeps his pitchers at their best and keeps getting key sac flies, RBI groundouts, and bases loaded walks.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
SPWC-
i've been on this site for almost 3 yrs and for the first time ever i've been left speechless.
i have no response to your response.
thanks for sharing....i think
but SPWC, i just thought of something
the title of your diary now makes much more sense to me.
cheers!
lucky for me
not to brag or anything, but i personally know of some hetero sucking.
but speaking of the way the kendall swings the ol' phallic stick, i'd rather this be his last year with the A's.
hmmmmmmmm.....
"...not to brag or anything, but i personally know of some hetero sucking."
i'm left wondering, does it start with your "sig line"?
:-)
I just cannot support this statement
I'm sorry. I can't. There is just no intangible skill that can make up for a sub-.500 OPS. I agree wholeheartedly with the proposition that if he's so good at calling pitches, let him do it from the bench. The guy makes Neifi Perez look like an offensive force. Neifi Perez. The definition of a horribly bad hitter.
The other thing is, as I sit here, I cannot think of a single bad thing that Fosse has ever said about an Oakland Athletic. I can't. He always spins something positive, and with Kendall what else could he say? He's got some power? Ummm . . . NO. He takes some walks? Um, not anymore. He gets a lot of hits/has a high BA? Nope. OBP? Nope. Great defense? Not even close. Great pitch-calling? That'll have to do.
Wish I could
but he is just too brutal on offense for me to agree. I would be sick if they brought him back next year, unless it was VERY cheap and he didn't play a lot.
that's exactly what I want...
1 year at $2 to $3 million as a backup catcher, extra pitching coach, and mentor to Suzuki.
If he doesn't pick up his offense enough to extend his career beyond that, then sign him as a coach. I'd like to see him as a bullpen coach, as long as Mr. Fisher gets promoted in turn. Maybe even a bench coach.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
NO!
I want melhuse. Melhuse is more of a threat to any pitcher then kendall.
Kendall sucks. (Sorry)
you guys seem to think...
...that pitchers do it all by themselves.
Most pitchers are sheep that need to be led!
They've spent so much time on mechanics and stretching and keeping their arms functional that they just can't spend two or three hours a day studying video.
Remember kids:
The catcher's main job in the 21st century is not to catch, to throw, or to hit, but to STUDY VIDEO AND EFFECTIVELY EXPLOIT TENDENCIES IN OPPOSING HITTERS!
All else is secondary.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Let's assume you are correct
Why would Kendall actually have to play, or even be on the roster, to do such things? Hire him as pitching coach, "strategy consultant", or whatever. The fatal flaw in your argument is that none of the things you say Kendall is so wonderful at -- with no objective proof by the way -- require him actually play.
by BlameChannel53 on Jun 5, 2007 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
the flaw is...
Kendall still wants to play, and he's under contract. Y'all kids seem to think that if the A's released him, nobody would pick him up off waivers.
There's no way that he wouldn't get picked up.
So, if he's going to play somewhere, and we're paying him all that money either way, he might as well play here, so we can take advantage of his brain.
I'm not hardcore enough to say he should play as much as he would like to, or that we shouldn't pinch hit for him in late innings during home games, but I don't want to see Melhuse out there 3-4 days a week unless he can hit .290 with 25 dingers, because that just might be what it would take to counterbalance his atrocious plate blocking, atrocious arm, and mediocre (at best) skill in handling pitchers.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Melhuse is not atrocious
Okay, he will never go face first into an oncoming runner (can't mess with the pretty) but he does have a decent arm. He can get guys out better than Kendall this year. I don't think Melhuse is an everyday catcher either but I do think he should be out there AT THE VERY LEAST once per week. I don't think Kendall is someone who ingests large quantities of air but I don't think he knows his limitations.
by mlleaimee on Jun 5, 2007 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Melhuse once a week is beautiful
because no matter what Mr. Kendall thinks, catching 150 games a year at a top level past the age of 30 is a hard task.
I am totally a believer in giving backup catchers playing time, because it keeps them sharp, keeps them motivated to do their video room work, and lets them know that they're an important part of the team.
Once a week on a week with an off day; twice a week on a week without one. That's how often I want to see Melhuse or Piazza starting at catcher... Piazza is a much worse catcher than both of them, but at least has the potential to offset his defensive shortcomings with some power at the plate.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
IF...
If pitch calling is done most effectively right there, with the batter, pitcher, umpire all in one spot, then it is arguable.
Is it possible that the catcher is in the best spot to observer the batter and the pitcher, and thus have an edge in pitch calling?
Not saying that this potential advantage is offset in this case by shortcomings in offense and throwing out base runners. But that's the calculation to make.
And the A's (starting) pitching is performing better than anybody expected.
Sorry, Kendall is stupendously bad offensively
I looked up the worst single-season OPS performances of the last 30 years (1977-2006) with a minimum of 200 plate appearances. (Kendall isn't eligible yet but he will be in a couple more games so he is in the list for comparative purposes.)
| Rank | Year | Player | Team | PA | OPS |
| 1. | 1998 | Doug Strange | Pittsburgh | 201 | .433 |
| -- | 2007 | JASON KENDALL | OAKLAND | 194 | .438 |
| 2. | 1989 | Bob Dernier | Philadelphia | 205 | .439 |
| 3. | 1991 | Juan Bell | Baltimore | 223 | .450 |
| 4. | 1980 | Luis Gomez | Atlanta | 307 | .451 |
| 5. | 2001 | Brandon Inge | Detroit | 202 | .453 |
| 6. | 1977 | Doug Flynn | Cincinnati/NY Mets | 333 | .455 |
| 7. | 1995 | Felix Fermin | Seattle | 219 | .457 |
| 8. | 1980 | Tom Donohue | California | 230 | .459 |
| 9. | 1987 | Angel Salazar | Kansas City | 332 | .465 |
| T-10. | 1989 | John Shelby | Los Angeles | 371 | .466 |
| T-10. | 1979 | Mario Mendoza | Seattle | 401 | .466 |
His offensive awfulness is clearly of historic magnitude. To justify our team's continuing to dump 4 plate appearances per game into this swirling vortex, he would either have to play Hall-of-Fame caliber defense (think Ozzie Smith before he learned how to hit) or would have to be surrounded by tremendous offensive teammates (think Mark Belanger on the Earl Weaver Orioles). Neither is the case, so the A's absolutely must look in another direction.
screw offense.
The A's are a pitching and defense club this year. Two to four runs a game is enough to keep the boys at .500. Three to five runs a game would bring them the division.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Screw offense?
You just said another run or two of offense wins the division in the same post you said screw offense. Haha...ok.
aaarrrggghhh....
You're not going to get one more run a game with Melhuse behind the plate. He'll give up more on defense than he makes up on offense, all the way.
You're not going to get that one more run a game with Piazza behind the plate, because the same thing applies.
However, with a healthy Piazza at DH, and Kendall catching 5 times a week, there's definitely a shot at getting that extra run per game.
Plus, with people getting healthy, that gives Mr. Beane a little bit of surplus for the July/August trade market, and he might just acquire someone who can boost the offense without having to sacrifice on defense. You gotta admit he's pretty good at that.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions
It's sad, but...
...the list of players who would "boost the offense without having to sacrifice on defense" includes Sal Fasano and Paul Bako.
at catcher, yes...
but I was thinking more along the lines of boosting the offense from left field.
As masochistic as it might sound, I'd love to see Elijah Dukes in an A's uniform playing left field. If there's a pitching surplus in July, you never know.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't waste your time
SPWC has long since lost any interest in facts or stats. Kendall is the greatest thing ever to happen to the A's. Why? Because he and Ray Fosse say so. We're into the Joe Morgan/Dusty Baker/Oaktoon realm here; shake your head and laugh because there is no possibility of rational argument on the issue.
by BlameChannel53 on Jun 5, 2007 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
there's no possibility of rational argument...
now you finally got something right.
There is absolutely no possibility to rationally argue this point. It's the same argument that an Atheist has with a Christian. If the Christian can't convince the atheist that God exists, and the Atheist can't convince the Christian that God doesn't, then all you have is the runaround, and nothing gets resolved.
If I can't convince the seamheads that defensive intangibles are real and important, even though they are unmeasurable, and the seamheads can't convince me that defensive intangibles do not exist because they cannot be measured, then all we have is the runaround, and nothing gets resolved.
Mind you, I'm in the Suzuki camp on this whole issue. I'm not a mindless Kendall defender; but I'm tired of reading BS from people who never played past tee ball purporting to KNOW that Kendall is bad on defense and that proper pitch calling isn't that big of a deal, because it's a HUGE deal.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 5, 2007 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions
For me, at least, it's not whether defensive
intangibles have no value, it's whether those intangibles make up for what is turning out to be an historically atrocious offensive season. His defensive intangibles had better be off-the-charts-valuable to make up for his offense. I'm not convinced that they are that valuable.
I am convinced
that his intangibles make up for his lack of offensive output.
He just saved the damn game for us last night, blocking 3 balls in the dirt that Melhuse would have been running to the screen after.
That's gotta be worth a couple of base hits.
He does these little things so often that people stop noticing, which is a shame.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 6, 2007 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Believe it or not,
I think your statement is insulting to Oaktoon.
This has veered off into the realm of ridiculous. No matter how good his pitch calling is, we all agree that it can be done from the bench and that it doesn't require conceding four AB's per game. It's ridiculous. Kendall's OPS is not even a good slugging percentage by itself. Seriously. Whomever the A's employ to be their catcher will presumably be required to watch tape, learn the hitters, and call a good game. This isn't quantum physics, it's learning the tendencies of 9-14 individuals, along with knowing the relative strengths and weaknesses of 11-12 of our pitchers. Most of us on this site are probably half-way there, irrespective of the magical aura that SPWC puts on these skills.
bull...
I'm not even one quarter of the way there, and I'm far ahead of many of you folks because I still play competitive baseball and tournament wiffleball.
(a note to those of you who disrespect wiffleball: it's not your church softball game, I can assure you... pitchers and catchers have to learn to call games at a high level, because in 5 on 5 wiffleball, most pitchers have two to four breaking pitches, plus a fastball and a change, and one bad pitch and you've got a home run on your hands)
So many fans think that what managers and coaches and catchers do is easy, and they could do it just as well, if only they could get in on the good old boy baseball hiring network. Well, go ahead and keep your dreams, but that's all it is... dreaming.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 6, 2007 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Awww c'mon, don't drag Oaktoon into this
Oaktoon at least brought in statistics and thorough analysis into his defenses. They might have been misguided, but he made much more effort at research in single posts than Morgan or Baker do in a whole year. In fact, I would venture a guess that Oaktoon would say that it's just about time for Kendall to get 'hot' (for Kendall) for a month or so just to get his BA up to the 250-275 range.
i'm in. anyone can hit .200. how boring.
under .200, no hr's, a radio station i can't pick up, moving to a town i can't pick out...you got my attention.
I'm almost willing to guarantee
that nobody on this site, with the exception of "Brown," maybe, could hit .200 in rookie league, let alone MLB.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 6, 2007 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh sure...
but can you be a league leader in grounding into double plays?
Huh, canya, huh, canya?
Oh dear blog...
Assuming that Kendall is a great pitch caller (hell, assume he's the greatest there ever was)...
Do the runs he supposedly saves by his pitch calling outweigh the black hole he is on offense? Now keep in mind that on the average 100 pitches, a great game caller versus an average one can't likely save more than 3 or 4 bad pitches (if that) since the pitcher still has to pitch the ball well AND while a pitcher still throws a number of bad pitches a game, a lot are either missed or fielded by the defense. So based on that, again, how many runs is he saving per game compared to the average catcher?
Anything and everything has a measure. I'm not a stathead, but it's still true. We may not have the faintest idea how to measure it, but it still can be. The fact is, he may save us possibly a thousandeth of a run a game, but if he gives up even a tenth of a run a game (which I think he does) on offense, then he shouldn't be in there at all (especially considering he has the ability to give up 2 outs per at bat through a doubleplay). As much as you might like to think it is, this isn't a Theist/Atheist question. Every aspect of the game as a measurable statistical value. Most things that don't get measured are generally because we don't know the best way to go about doing so, we don't have enough data to accurate calculate it yet, or it's simply statistically irrelevant. Take your pick, but it's hard to make a stance that he's capable of lowering a team's era significantly enough to make up for his pitiful offense.
Make no mistake, I don't disagree that he's a good caller. But if you look at the team era with him behind the plate against the team era with Melhuse, I'd be shocked if there was a significant difference. IF you come back and show there is one, then we have something solid to discuss, otherwise you're argument is borderline ad hominem. The worst part of your "argument" is you don't bother to address Kendall's potential replacements and what they bring to the table as a game caller nor the run differiential between the two, which is the single most important thing in determining who should be behind the plate most often.
If Melhuse = Kendall calling abilities but Melhuse > Kendall offensively, then wouldn't it stand to reason that Melhuse should play?
If Melhuse gives up .001 runs per game more defensively than Kendall, but Melhuse gains up to .01 runs per game more offensively than Kendall, shouldn't it stand to reason that Melhuse should play?
You make it sound pretty simple.
So how come a couple of pretty smart guys like Billy Beane and Bob Geren don't do it? Because Kendall will pout? Does Kendall control them, or do they control Kendall? There's got to be a reason, if not many, if what you say is correct. What do you think those reasons are?
BULL BULL BULL!
Not every aspect of the game has a measurable statistical value!!!!!!!!
Clutch hitting, pitch calling, clubhouse chemistry...
all statistically unmeasurable, and all highly important.
Seamheads try to take all the mysticism out of the game and say it's all scientific.
Traditionalists try to disrespect the seamheads and say that the game is a mystical beautiful poetic thing.
Both have a point, but the most efficient and functional view is that Baseball is a mystical beautiful poetic thing, many elements of which can be measured, quantified, and analyzed, but many that can not.
I like the middle ground. I can look at the stats and see that Kendall's offense is pretty bad; and I can close my eyes and breathe in the feel of the game from section 101 and know that the guy behind the plate is maybe the strongest player in the game that you can't quantify, qualify, or pigeonhole.
I enjoy arguing with you folks, and I hold no malice for anybody. Plus, with this topic, I have the vindication that the two people whose opinions matter most on the subject, i.e. Mr. Beane and Mr. Geren, agree with me.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 6, 2007 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
why
would anyone want to disrupt the best starting pitching in the AL by benching Kendall? Doesn't make any sense to me. We may be starting to make a run, let Kendall play.
worst offensive player in baseball
he is the worst offensive player in baseball no doubt about it. yeah he batted 295 last year, but thats with under 25 XBH and 20 GIDP. This year he has 2 XBH...its crazy..
his slugging is at 200, then next lowest one in the AL is 270...
by Mango on Jun 6, 2007 9:47 AM PDT reply actions
Maybe he is helping A's pitchers, maybe not...
But one thing's for certain: he's definitely helping opposing pitchers!
ha ha ha...
yeah, but when he steps up to the plate 0-3 in the 8th, and the club really needs him to do something productive, he's gonna walk or get hit by a pitch or hit a sac fly or move the runner over or maybe even (egads!) hit a single...
And then he'll block the plate and block the balls in the dirt in the 9th to save the game, or stick his face in front of a speeding cleat, or smack the grin off of the face of that annoying Angels' pitcher.
Plus, I kinda have the feeling that he'll get that average up to .230 before the season's over. There are a lot of catchers in this game that hit .230.
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 6, 2007 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
wow
Late to the party for this one. Had more fun reading through the 96 comments here than I have for a while on AN...since almost half were responses from SPWC, way to keep things interesting, man. Comparisons to Morgan/Baker/Oaktoon are pretty ridiculous...this guy (SPWC) seems to have acquired some wisdom that will never be attained via statistical analysis alone. As someone once noted, all the world's great mystics chose the Middle Path.
As for my opinion about Kendall, I don't think there are better options available at catcher. For better or worse, we're committed through this year. On a personal level, he's one of my favorite players to root for, one of the players who brings some variant of the old "I'd rather go down swinging with this group of guys than win with _____" cliche to mind. If he in fact can turn it around offensively, this team could be the team to beat in the second half.
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