Shea It Ain't So
by louismg on Jun 24, 2007 1:06 PM PDT
in News
137 comments
Getting swept, even against a 1st-place team like the New York Mets, hurts. Losing in the way the A's did in this weekend series, with two lopsided scores (Friday and today) and the much closer 1-0 contest yesterday, is extremely painful.
The way the A's lost today's game wasn't something you could find blame for in any one way. There were defensive issues (Crosby or Cust, you pick) in the first inning, there were hitting issues all over the place, there were pitching issues from the starter as Kennedy allowed eight hits in four innings, and there were pitching issues from the bullpen, as Lewis escaped a bases loaded jam one inning, only to see Jay Marshall groove a low pitch for a 3-run bomb that really put the game away, extinguishing hope, in the next frame.
Accumulatively, in the three game series, the A's hitters were a collective 19 for 99, south of the Mendoza line. That's not going to win ballgames.
And while Jack Cust's home run was a lot of fun today, less fun was seeing him strike out after running the count to 3-0 in the fateful top of the 9th, to end the ballgame. It's great to have seen Geren have the faith to put Cust out in the field to get him some at bats, and yes, at times, it seems we need nine Custs out there to put a W on the board, but the truth of the matter is today, we gave up ten runs, and didn't deserve a W. Not with our hitting, not with our fielding, and not with our pitching.
Let's leave this stadium behind and move on. There's not much sense looking back. You won't like what you see.
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Amen on "leaving this stadium behind."
Can we blame you since BBG typically handles Sunday games? Just kidding :-)
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 1:06 PM PDT reply actions
Blame whoever you like
I just don't think the statistics will hold up long-term. :-)
Only if it would garner us a victory.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I would assume
they post because they're fans. Yea I know that he said the season was over in the other topic, but he's a fan and thats what we do. Obviously, I'm a met fan, but I love going to the blogs of the opposing teams just to see if they view the game the same way I view the exact same game and really funny. Every fan sites have fans that just complain about everything, whether they're winning or losing. And when they win, they hope its the start of something, and when they lose, they swear the season's over. You should have seen what the philly fans were writing at the beginning of the season. Stuff like..."I swear the next game I watch will be an eagles game". But now, that they're only 3 games back, those same fans are saying they're going to win the WS. So give the guy a break, he's frustrated, but tomorrow, he'll be on here hoping for a win...IMHO
by metsblog275 on Jun 24, 2007 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
thanx bro
I hate the Yankees too. And I'm sure much more than you do. You have no idea what it's like living in the same town as them, and to put up with their fans who swear they've been fans since birth, but can even name more than 2 or 3 players...lol
by metsblog275 on Jun 24, 2007 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Whaah? Did I post to someone specifically?
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know brotha...
I just thought you were.
by metsblog275 on Jun 24, 2007 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Well I have a post for you specificallly.
metsblog275- Not sure why you are on AN anyway but I can certainly understand why you hate the Yankees. There are many similarities between the A's and Mets because they are always "second fiddle" in the media to the Giants and Yankees. Congrats on the series victory and please go enjoy it with your fanbase.
Also our team, the A's, normally play very poorly at the beginning of the year yet they come out of the gate very strong post All-Star break. For that reason it gets very tiring hearing from "several" people on AN saying "game over" and "we're done" and "the season is over." The season is most definitely not over and these are the same people that will be back acting like they were always behind them. That's completely fine but this blog is usually more respectful to their team than any other and that is why I come here.
To every person who has posted the comments that I don't prefer hearing- I am still glad you're A's fans and I know that we are all very frustrated right now. Let's not overreact until the season truly is "over."
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
well you answered
your question for me. The reason I'm on your site and not mine is partly because I get tired of people saying the same things and much worse after every loss. (even with us being in first place) So, basically, the season is much more enjoyable reading how others view us as opposed to how we view ourselves. You should try it, you'd be surprised. On the Mets site, fans were very worried about the A's. Even going as far as to say our season would be over if we didn't win this series. Ironic huh
by metsblog275 on Jun 24, 2007 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
mets
Until you've ever spent time with another fanbase the grass is always greener on the other side. The Mets kicked the A's ass. It happens and time to move on. For the record an above 500 team June is something to be reckoned with.
I am cool with other fans coming to our site,
I enjoy reading other sites too. Congrats on the sweep. I love Jose Reyes! Wanta trade for Bobby Crosby?
This is the only part that didn't make sense
Why come on AN as a Met fan and tell me not to say something to other A's fan? I wasn't even talking about anyone specifically and he used the word "he" in his post. Oh well it's all good but I'll never visit their blog because I don't care about their team or any others except OURS.
Yea I know that he said the season was over in the other topic, but he's a fan and thats what we do.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
is metsfan wrong?
Fans go up & down all the time. I'm pissed off today about the recent fate but if they win 6 games won't I be happier? Plus that proclamation may seem harder to justify.
Pretty sad IMO.
Fans should back their team when things are up or down yet challenge the reasons why they are up or down. I've only seen you post here for a day so we'll see how long you'll be around if there is a prolonged losing streak.
To start from the beginning. I never said anything to anyone in particular yet metsblog275 said that I did. That is what started this whole discussion.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Ive been a fan for awhile
I'm not an a's fan because it's trendy. I started posting here because I can no longer post where I prefer.
Btw I've read through all his comments and metsfan admitted the mistake. I've also read through yours. And his point that fans get up & down was the entire jist of the thing. He mentioned Phillies fans too if im not mistaken. If you're going to accuse other's of not paying attention, you should start paying the same attention yourself.
I'm shocked to hear that you can't post
wherever you were before.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Yea im annoyed too
At least on another A's site I don't get lambasted for HAVING AN OPINION. Heaven forbid I actually have one that isn't a rough template of others.
well listen
I apologize for doing that, you're right I shouldn't have. But as far as fans backing their team through the good and the bad, I think they do. For instance, if I came on here talking crap about the A's, every fan would jump all over me, reciting stats, giving history, and attacking my team. But when its all A's on the site, they kinda let their frustrations show. It's like family, I can talk about my brother, but you can't. Doesn't me I don't back him if you hear me talking about him to other family members though. I hope that made sense, it was a little bit of a stretch.
by metsblog275 on Jun 24, 2007 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought we were patched up just fine.
You actually hit the nail on the head with your example of family because that is kind of what I was intimating. You must have read my sig line and assumed it was a post to someone else in the first place.
I was not trying to drudge up the conversation again so please accept my apology if that is how it looked from your perspective.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
ok
so we're cool then...and on that note. THE A's SUCK!!!!!!
lol
by metsblog275 on Jun 24, 2007 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
If we play in TWO years we'll DESTROY you.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Indians lose
dropping 2/3 to the Nats is as bad as getting swept by the Mets.
Very big series coming up.
Although if we lose 2/3
5 games out is not really that bad, and Detroit just a game up on Cle.
kendall
kendalls got to go.
Told ya Harden should have started in this series
And I find it hilariously ironic that many of the people bitching about the offense are the same ones who approved of getting rid of Bradley.
Harden Start
So Harden should have pitched his one inning and THEN let the starter come in, and not just any starter mind you, a number four or five starter that wouldn't have been able to cope with not actually starting the game and being thrown off his routien.
Makes sense.
by Threepwood XX on Jun 24, 2007 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh please.
Before this series started, I advocated starting Harden but limiting him to 4 innings. A 4 inning Harden performance would have probably been a hell of a lot better than the pathetic performances Kennedy and DiNardo put up this weekend.
And no Harden would not have been only capable of putting in a 1 inning performance. Last year in his first start back from the DL, he was able to do exactly what I suggested above: start for four innings.
by lenscrafters on Jun 24, 2007 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
4 innings
is most likely more than 50 pitches. 12-13 pitches an inning is tough for any starter let alone one just coming off the DL.
One reason they might not have started Harden right away like they did last year, lenscrafters, is that last year's plan didn't really work out all that well. The goal here should be to get Harden healthy to start the rest of the year, not just win one game against the Mets in June. His long term health is more important to me than any one game. IMO, it is irresponsible to start him right away after a DL stint in which all he did was throw a couple of bullpens and a simulated game after two or three long toss sessions.
by IndianaAsfan on Jun 24, 2007 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
4 IP = 50. Especially for a strikeout pitcher.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Strikeout pitchers
have the highest pitch counts. Especially Harden. There have been plenty of games where he's already over 100 after 6 innings. He just doesn't average 12-13 pitches per inning, which you need if you're going to stay at 50 for 4 innings pitched.
by IndianaAsfan on Jun 24, 2007 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep. I thought you were possibly understating
and was only trying to back up your numbers.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Therein lies the second part of the problem
The A's shouldn't have rehabbed Harden as a relief pitcher. He should have been rehabbed as a starter. I would rather he had made two starts in the minors (and in the process build up his pitchcounts) than two relief appearances.
by lenscrafters on Jun 24, 2007 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
nevermind my question below then
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually covered all that before
in previous comments. But it's okay, I don't mind repeating myself.
There's NO guarantee (or even reason to believe) that Rich Harden would magically become immune to health issues if he started pitching out of the bullpen, or if he pitches out of the bullpen and later reverts back to starting. Based on past history, Rich Harden will most likely suffer an injury in the future regardless of what preventive measures are taken. The idea of "getting Harden healthy" is laughable because the dude can't stay healthy if his life depended on it, which makes the notion of him "starting the rest of the year" even more laughable. That's why he should have immediately started once coming off the DL, to squeeze as much value as possible out of him (and thereby helping the team) before he suffers his next injury.
by lenscrafters on Jun 24, 2007 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you saying give him 30 pitches and pull him
in the 2nd inning if that is the case? It takes a starter quite a while to loosen up so it would kind of be unfair to the guy throwing after him the way I see it. The "long man" would not know when he was coming into the game so I'm questioning how this part would work?
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Wait, am I supposed to reply to this or not? lol
by lenscrafters on Jun 24, 2007 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
don't you dare!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
If the A's really thought
there was no chance of Harden being healthy they would have gotten rid of him in the off season when his value was higher. To say that he should have started right away, when that strategy has already proven unsuccessful, is pessimistic at best and negligent at worst. I said the GOAL was to try and get him healthy for the rest of the year, NOT just for this short period. And as shocking as this may be, some of us don't hang on your every post.
by IndianaAsfan on Jun 24, 2007 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
If I remember correctly
The A's entertained notions of trading Harden during the Mets this offseason, so there was definitely concerns about his ability to stay healthy. Of course, that was before this latest injury which pretty much cemented the fact that Harden can't stay healthy.
Yes, I know you're goal is to get Harden healthy and ready for the rest of the year and whatnot and what I'm saying is that your goal is impossible (we are talking about the same guy who strained his arm turning off an alarm clock) and the methods you want to use to achieve that goal (relieving Harden then starting him) are more than likely to fail.
And haha, not expecting you to hang out to my every word (that would be creepy), but it does suck to have to repeat yourself. Oh well.
by lenscrafters on Jun 24, 2007 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Is there any proof
that a guy like harden can't stay healthier if he pitches less on a more consistent basis? If the A's are going to keep harden find some way to make him valuable. I don't see how the bullpen, where there is some need, is any less of a risk than starting him. Pitching him, and hoping he stays healthy for awhile, in an area where you are somewhat strong isn't very smart to me.
Good question.
I'd have to say maybe or maybe not. But let's look at a guy called Kerry Wood. Obviously, you're well aware of his injury issues when he was a starter. Consequently, the Cubs moved him to the bullpen this season. However, the move did him no good as he immediately got injured again and he's been out for a long while now. Point of the matter is, some pitchers are just prone to injuries no matter what you do with them. Rich Harden, like I said before, is more than likely one of those pitchers.
Personally, I actually don't really care to find out if Harden can stay healthy in the bullpen. The real reason I want Harden to start so badly is because if Harden somehow miracuously strings together five quality starts without getting injured, the A's can trade him to a team for a nice package of prospects. That's my dream scenario: Harden helps the team out for 5 or so starts and helps the team even further by helping acquire some quality prospects. Obviously, his trade value is lower if he's working out of the bullpen.
by lenscrafters on Jun 24, 2007 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
fair enough
It was just a point to be made that's all. I don't think the A's can know whether he will ever stay healthy. He didn't start in high school and since arm injuries happen to arms who aren't managed then some of this is on the organization. How much depends on your belief on how organization's should protect young arms.
Wood was hurt last year and declined
surgery. He started spring training just trying to pitch through the pain. He was damaged goods when moved to the pen, so that comparison isn't really that valid.
The fact with pitching rehab is that different methods work for different pitchers. Getting a starter back through some relief work has worked before. I'm not sure about at the Major League level, but I've seen it and discussed it at the collegiate level. Some pitchers cannot get the requisite intensity in bull pens to get the arm strength to start. Regardless, it's not like trying this with Harden will result in more injury.
As for the A's interest in trading Harden, that was refuted by Beane many times. It was popular fodder in the NY papers, even getting Harden and Haren confused a couple of times, but I'm not convinced it was true.
by IndianaAsfan on Jun 24, 2007 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
if beane wont
consider trading Harden that is the real problem. That to me is the bigger concern. Harden doesn't work out move him someplace or keep him till his contract works out. Rather than rely on him year in year out and be prone to shuffle your entire roster around to suit a couple of oft injured players.
Chill out
Harden is making 2 mil this year, and 4.5 next with an option for 7 mil in 2009. At those prices he's worth a risk.
chill out?
I am chilled. I'm unhappy with the money management of Billy Beane and his minions. I can be you know. That is my right. It's not like im going on & on about the stupid contract he signed Chavez to while not recognizing Miguel Tejada (an actual all star). But hey I could couldn't I?
I think you are just trying to be a jerk.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn't say you were a jerk. I said
that I thought you were trying to be one :-)
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope
But while were on the subject of my attempted jerkiness, having an opinion is not the definition of a jerk. I just think you misread Metsfan's opinion. If you don't want other people's opinion, regardless of the intent, that is a definition of a jerk.
Hey pookey!
Cut it out. It's your first day here, so don't tick off everyone.
Thanks,
Are you sure your info is correct?
Kerry Wood suffered a torn rotator cuff last year. He rehabbed in the offseason and was good to go at the start of spring training, in which the Cubs decided to pitch him out of the bullpen. After a few appearances however, he strained his right triceps, missed a few games, then came back. After a while, he got stiffness in his shoulder and is out until now. By all accounts, he was good at the start of spring training (which is why he was pitching in the first place, think about it, how idiotic would the Cubs be to make him "pitch through pain" at the start of spring training?) not "damaged goods." It's proof moving to the pen doesn't prevent injuries.
Regardless, it's not like trying this with Harden will result in more injury.
Once again we're back to square one where you continue to believe that Harden can magically be injury free by pitching out of the bullpen. Whatever. I'm done trying to explain myself.
Do you seriously believe the A's had no interest in trading Harden last offseason? Please, if you have a pitcher who's constantly injury prone yet provides a huge upside when healthy (thereby making him attractive to many teams) you'd be willing to listen to offers. Like pookey said, if Beane won't consider trading Harden then that's the real problem. I don't think Beane's that stupid.
by lenscrafters on Jun 24, 2007 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions
First off thx for the nice words BUT
I think Beane let's his personal feelings get in the way with Harden. We all saw that magical start he had vs Texas. And a few other outings where he was very good. While I don't think Beane is stupid, and has many good things to show for his tenure, I also think he's lets his personal beliefs get in the way of players. Unfortunately I agree with you about Harden in the pen not being a solution. Arm Injuries are arm injuries, which is another reflection on the organization and their belief towards handling them. I do wonder though, can he have more effect closing games in a long relief manner. I think it's very difficult with Duscherer and Street, and their injury issues, to expect both to stick around. Particularily when they're being used wrong in the first place.
I believe he had more personal feelings for the
big 3 than Harden, and he traded 2 of them. I don't believe Beane has any personal feelings when he deals with business. He will do whatever he feels is best for this team. After all he is part owner, although a small part. The better the team does, the more money he makes.
by theblackpearl on Jun 24, 2007 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay
I just don't agree is all. He spent too much on Bobby Kielty for, let me think, oh yea no reason. Also he spent money on Jay Witasick. Why? He overpayed Chavez on his projected ability to develop his hitting skill, which still hasn't developed. He payed Mike Piazza some money when he had other options. He traded for Kendall with Jeremy Brown in the system. Then he compounded the mistake by selecting Suzuki and having him rise quickly through the system. Last I checked catchers can call games in the minor leagues too. This doesn't even include Adam Melhuse. I don't care so much that he gambles and goes wrong. But when he brings veterans with little back end value it's frustrating. It's not like Jason Kendall had years of upside at his disposal. This isn't even about money just perspective. If Jeremy Brown doesn't work that's fine. But he has never been given a chance up to this point. How is that acceptable? And there are other guys who haven't been given much of a chance either. Where do we draw the line of what's acceptable and what isn't?
I agree on Kielty and Witasick.
Kendall goes back to a time when we had to dump Rhodes and Redman so that trade was very understandable. Jeremy Brown was not an option at catcher and Beane tried everything in his power to make it happen but the guy doesn't have the talent. Keeping him around is probably a sign of Beane's ego but did any other team think he was viable at his position?
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep Brown can't play
Because how many games has he played in again? I wish I could agree based on that numerous sample size he's displayed. I don't mind that he didn't make it. I mind that he never really got a chance. He got called up how many times in his career so far yet hasn't played IN A SINGLE GAME?
Dumping a player is easy. You didn't have to dump them for Kendall. Isn't it somewhat suspicious that the Pirates were willing to pay for most of his salary in the first place?
Can you give me one reason why Beane
Wasn't Brown the player that Grady Fuson was most upset about drafting? I need to re-read Moneyball because there are parts that I forget. Maybe notsellingjeans knows the answer?
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Uh
Did billy Beane become a sabermetrician anytime recently? Because last I checked that was Paul DePodesta. My question is why call a guy up to the 25 man roster than not ever play him? That's the question ohtobe. He was picked because he had a huge OB% when he was in college. He also apparently lost weight and worked hard to get better at his various difficulties in the minor leagues. I'm just curious to ask why he didn't get that opportunity that's all. It's not a hard question it just points the finger at Billy Beane that's all.
It's your info on Woods
that isn't complete. He was not "good to go" in spring training. They knew the torn rotator cuff was still there, but they hoped that his rehab had strengthened the area around the injury enough that he could pitch out of the pen this year. It obviously didn't work. But both the Cubs and Woods were well aware of the potential problems.
The other thing you apparently don't understand is that I'm not advocating a permanent move to the pen for Harden. I was discussing his preparation to get back to starting by spending some time in the pen. And if he were to be injury free, it wouldn't be magic. Do I think is probable? No, but I think it possible. I, unlike you, haven't given up all hope when it comes to Harden. You don't need to explain yourself anymore. I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree with you. I'm basing my opinion on Harden's rehab on experience with pitchers, and I won't fault the A's for taking this course of treatment. It can't hurt (no pun intended).
And yes, I would consider an offer. But that doesn't mean I think Billy would have considered an offer for Harden last off season. I think he was a major part of the A's plan for this year, and it would have taken an outrageous deal to get Billy to agree to a deal.
by IndianaAsfan on Jun 24, 2007 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
can we bring Bradley back?
this team looks really lost since Billy designated Bradley for assignment. More like a team battling for the cellar than for the playoffs.
there's definitely more than meets the eye with the whole Bradley DFA.
by oak1 on Jun 24, 2007 1:16 PM PDT reply actions
can't have your Cust and eat it too
The 3-2 strikeouts (both swinging and, especially, looking) can't be fractionated out from the HRs. If they could, well, Cust would be Barry Bonds.
FWIW, I'll take all of Cust's 6-plus-pitch Ks over Crosby's 3-pitch Ks any day of the week.
Can you imagine the clubhouse if they did?
I'm sure there are a few guys who can't stand him, while there are some that love what he brings to the team. That would be quite awkward.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Can we get rid of or BENCH chavez...
I'm listening to Buan right now and he's spinning
the Chavez liability garbage again by asserting that he isn't healthy and he's soldiering through it again to help the team. Memo to Buan and Chavez apologists: Eric Chavez' apathetic approach at the plate is KILLING THIS TEAM.
Rewind it a year and you'll see it's the same old story. "The A's have noone else out there who can play defense like Chavez and so we should be willing to accept his sub par hitting" in exchange for his gold glove defense. I'm tired of this garbage. If you are going to bitch and moan about him not being healthy then BENCH HIS ASS.
If you don't bench his ass, bat him lower in the order. He is garbage. A sorry excuse for your 'franchise player.' We have two options as I see it. Bench his ass and play Scutaro or for Christ Sake do not bat him in the four spot.
Anyone else think the demise of Chavez is related to the newly enstated steroid testing policy? A team with it's cornerstone as Eric Chavez is destined to go nowhere!
if he's hurt, DL him
but if he's not, he pretty much has to swing his way outta this.
Problems I have with Chavez
#1 He isn't worth the money
#2 He can't hit lefites
#3 It's against the law to pinch hit for him. In a late inning situation I'd rather have Scutaro or Stewart hitting against a lefty than Chavez.
#4 He makes too many errors in playoff games.
do you have numbers for #4?
i'm looking around, but i can't find stats for that.
Chavy's Playoff Errors
- At least one error against Detroit plus two others that could have gone as errors.
- A HUGE error against Boston in game three ... right after Tejada's Huge error.
- Not 100% sure but I think he made one against the Twins in the game 4 meltdown.
2001,2002: I think he made an error in each series against the Yankees.
I'm thinking he made 4 or 5 errors in 27 playoff games. That's about twice the rate he makes erroris in the regular season. Yes, it's it's a small sample size but when you factor in how costly those errors were they tend to stand out even more.
I'm not as down on Chavvy as you are, but ...
... I absolutely agree that the approach the team has always taken with Chavez doesn't work. For some reason, they don't seem to see the hits on his defense that playing hurt causes -- the dropoff isn't immediate when he's hurting, nor is it usually directly attributable to his arm problems; but when he struggles and struggles at the plate, his arms get even weaker and he brings his offensive struggles onto the field with him.
If he's hurt, DL him.
If he can't get healthy, get rid of him.
his defense is pretty decent,
but,excuse me, why is he batting clean-up...
by littleA on Jun 24, 2007 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions
the bats will come around
but this should be a long, tough week ahead, so i hope the guys can push through it.
Is this Bean ball?
I have always felt that Bean was bad for the A's. He is getting the A's whiter but not brighter! Yeah Bradley gets hurt,but check out who is on the DL list. Piazza,Street and can't play Harden.
perhaps he should spot-treat and pre-soak?
The problem with this team
Is about 22 out of the 25 guys on the roster are struggling right now, and it makes us look like the Royals or the Nationals where they just don't have any good players. I'm not saying we have great players that are just struggling, because some of them are just terrible, but that even the ones who we can normally count on are just not getting it done.
Interleague play is over, and that's the only bright spot I can find, and hopefully the guys can put it behind them. This team needs some serious offensive help right now, not pitching because they've been great all year and I think they're just slumpin a bit right now. We definitely need some new blood in the clubhouse though.
i say screw piazza catching
we need him DHing right now. he can work on the throwing while he's hitting.
Piazza
Hold on a sec there cowboy! Jack Cust is the only player on the team besides Ellis hitting for any power right now. I really don't want to trade the elite power of Cust for a guy who hasn't proven he has any power left this year.
I want Piazza back just as much as you, but I want him replacing the offensive black hole that is Kendall, not taking away at bats from one of our only hot hitter.
by Threepwood XX on Jun 24, 2007 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
so stick cust in left field
buck in right, and swisher at first.
I just want one big deal for a great hitter
we have seen the slowly expanding wallet of Mr. Wolfe over the past couple years and I think he has it in him to let Billy make that big signing sometime soon. Maybe not this year but within 2 years I think there will be a big name in Oakland from outside the organization.
In the meantime it is really aggravating to not have at least one legitimate threat in the offense to make the opposing pitcher go oh crap I just wrecked my drawers. Yeah Big Hurt did that for the second half last year and Giambi and Tejada approached that sort of status on their way out. But it sure would be nice to have a guy that we could pencil into the 4 spot long-term and have at least the thought every time he steps in...this guy could go yard.
I'm talking a really legitimate 50hr guy, maybe the ba is around 270 but he just strikes fear in the pitchers heart.
This offense was quite flat and this was potentially the most depressing series this year, but the WC is within reach and the Angels have to lose sometime right....right....right....ah poop.
Well
Remember, the Mets starting staff has the fourth best ERA in all of baseball. Yes, the Mets have struggled lately, but it isn't like the Texas starting staff was shutting the A's down.
You get swept occasionally. You get over it and move onto the next opponent. I'm more scared about the A's pitching right now. If the A's starting staff isn't stellar, the A's aren't going to win a lot of games. And the starting staff has been pretty up and down lately (outside of Blanton and Haren). Gaudin's ERA in June is 5.16. DiNardo has a 3.00 ERA in June, but he also is sporting 11 BB to only six Ks. Kennedy looks like he's coming down to earth. He didn't have a lot of defensive help today, but still.
The A's always have a tough time in Cleveland too.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jun 24, 2007 2:27 PM PDT reply actions
Starters
If everyone was healthy and we all lived in a perfect world the rotation would probably look like this..
#1 Haren
#2 Harden
#3 Blanton
#4 Loaiza
#5 Gaudin
not to mention the bullpen would improve too.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I think like you do on this one, Blez.
We have gotten our wins because of the pitching. If the pitching breaks down... God help us!
left in the in 5th inning
and I come back to the not surprising outcome. sheez.
My mind is settling into the reality of this season with more and more ease.
Angels still catching breaks too.
Another blown call in the game on Chone's unbelievable stop at 3B. The runner was clearly safe and the ump shouldn't have needed a slow-mo replay to make the correct determination. That is the 4th call that has went their way this week alone and I didn't last night's game so it could be more. They are just living right.
If the correct call would have been made then Pittsburgh would have just tied the game at 3-3.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 2:52 PM PDT reply actions
This club...
...as presently constituted will not go to to the playoffs. The pitching has carried them this far (and Blanton tossed a gem yesterday), but the offense simply is inept. For them to win, Crosby has to field and hit like a major league shortstop; Chavez has to get hot and stay hot; Johnson has to start hitting; Kotsay, too. Kendall is what he is, so forget him improving; Ellis is playing and hitting as well as he ever will and that would be good enough, if the others ever decide to show up to play; Piazza must have a great second half (won't happen); Harden has to start - forget the relief talk; Street and Duke have to return in form. I say it again. Look for a big multiplayer trade - and soon.
Bradley Fallout
Am I the only one who thinks Bradley's voided trade might cost the A's the big bat they're missing. If Beane could free up the remaining 2 million on MB's contract he could use it for someone else. Even better.... if he could free up MB's and Piazza's contract the A's could afford to take on someone like Dunn or Griffey. Those guys make around 9-10 million, so it would be 5 million for half a season. While I'm dreaming, why not free up Kendall, Chavy and Loaiza while I'm at it.
haha @ trading chavez
what's the likelihood of that happening? Probably .001% And for the record I'm all for it.
"the" big bat they're missing?
Try the 2 or 3 big bats they're missing.
Not to mention Blez' point above regarding the 3-5 slots in the rotation starting to show their true colors.
yep, need multiple big bats
hell, i will settle for adequate bats.
or
This season is not hopeless.
*Gaudin may get hot again. He has the talent to do it.
*Harden may be able to come back and pitch again. players that have had checkered injuries histories have been successful in having a healthy season before.
*Duke may come back and be effective.
*Street less chance but still a chance.
*Piazza may come back and add a spark at the plate. He is capable of that.
*Kotsay is going to get better at the plate.
*Maybe Beane will do some more trading.
*Swish may get into a hitting groove.
I am excited to see how the second half of this season goes. I think this team has the character to come back and go for that wildcard!
I agree
The A's have a decent change of making the playoffs even with the rediculous amount of injuries they've had. My gripe with the team isn't the win/loss record it's the entertainment value. More and more, I find myself fast forwarding through A's at bats with my DVR because they don't really have anyone, besides Swisher and maybe Cust, all that exciting to watch hit.
Just think if you were a casual baseball fan tuning in to watch an A's game. Other than to see Dan Haren pitch, what would keep someone from turning the channel?
the a's may be playing over their heads
but aren't the angels too somewhat? Also I don't care about the entertainment value because baseball is baseball. Other than Danny Haren there is alot of questions with this club right now. Which means that unless they get answered this club won't be making the postseason. Which is the single most obvious statement I could make too.
absolutely
I hope the A's were watching the...
Yanks vs. Giants game today. I'm assuming we'll see Mussina in NY. The geriatrics (including Bonds and Klesko) stole 5 bases off of him today. If the A's don't attempt to match that when they're struggling to score runs during a tough stretch, there's something wrong with the FO.
Daric Barton
Another great game for him. He went 4-5. He is now 42 for 82 in the month of June.
He needs to be brought up pronto
We're in desparate need for offense and other than a trade he's our only hope at this point.
by shawzy on Jun 24, 2007 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Middle relief
The impact of the injuries to both the starters and top two relievers has really been felt in recent games in the middle relief situation. We've had guys unable to hold games close because they probably wouldn't even be in the major leagues -- or at least pitching in important situations -- if it wasn't for the various injuries. Eventually this has come back to haunt the A's. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to have above average hitters at some positions (catcher, first base, shortstop, center field...)
Im watching...
K-rods face was priceless!
by iloveoakland on Jun 24, 2007 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions
No I'm here. ANOTHER bad call goes their way.
I'm telling ya. The baseball gods are due to serve the Angels a heaping helping of adversity come later in the year. I've NEVER seen this many incorrect calls go the right way for a team.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Just to review...
is that 3 this game?
just two from my perspective
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
ah ok
I didn't watch most of the game so I wasn't sure.
I'm just laughing at how crazy it is that they're having this much good luck every game they play. I know it's the Pirates... but SHEESH!
I'm watching
(it's a consequence of living in a house of Angel fans haha)
They totally missed the tag to get Duffy and I am pissed. Well actually I'm sort of laughing, because it's so ridiculous.
And I'm really glad I didn't have to see F-Rod squat down like an idiot again haha
SOB.
There about to win it.
by iloveoakland on Jun 24, 2007 4:07 PM PDT reply actions
Damn it.
I hate being right.
by iloveoakland on Jun 24, 2007 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
you're still a genius
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Well technically, I'm not watching, just
observing on gameday. I always enjoy it when F-Rod, oops, K-Rod blows a save.
Pirates lose because of a bad call. Unreal.
They should have won 4-3 if it weren't for the umpires. Two wins were given to them this week and it really isn't even debatable.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 4:10 PM PDT reply actions
I am waiting for someone to "give" us a victory
maybe that'll happen next week.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 24, 2007 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Great series, dipshits.
I don't think it'll happen, but I'd love to see us trade off some parts and re-tool with some parts around a nucleus of Haren, Swisher, TBuck, and Casilla.
I don't think we're a bad team necessarily, but I think that A) we peaked last season w/ the ALCS and B) the Angels just aren't going to get caught this year.
Pitching is, as always, a coveted commodity in the trade market. I don't think we'll be getting any A prospects back, but we should be able to get something of value for Harden, Kennedy, Loaiza (if he comes back and proves himself healthy), Embree, etc. If we somehow found someone to take Chavvy, Kendall, Piazza, Kotsay, and/or Kielty, even better.
PUt aside your passionate fan feelings for a minute. Do you really believe this team will ever win a World Series. I don't. We were good last year, but there was also some luck involved to get there. I know that you just need to reach the postseason, then it's a crapshoot. However, just getting there is going to get touggher and tougher. The Angels aren't just good; they're young. And if you're thinking wild card, the two corporations in the AL East will always be there, plus the Tigers and Indians are both good and young. The AL is going to be a jungle for a few years. I just don't think this tram has the talent to ever win it.
I have been known in the past to get a little riled up and reactive to losses. This isn't one of those. I just feel it is in the best interest of the franchise to strip down and reload for the opening of the new ballpark now.
I agree
Do this and do it soon. And call up D Barton!
by A'sfansince1970 on Jun 24, 2007 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions
That is the crunch Billy spoke of. They are goin
to call up Barton to be the Everyday 1B, and Swish will stay in the OF, no room for Milton everyday, the way Buck has been swinging it. Now if he could just shore up his Byrnsie style paths to the ball, we could be set.
by theblackpearl on Jun 24, 2007 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I think
Barton should be the DH and DJ should stay @ 1b. Personal opinion though. Hell I wish the A's hadn't acquired Piazza that much, although I wasn't against it originally, only because at what point do you bring up Barton?
if dj
But wait! There's hope!
Sabathia sucks against us! GO A'S!
by A'sfansince1970 on Jun 24, 2007 7:21 PM PDT reply actions
3 runs in 3 games
THAT'S PATLHETIC.
You mean pATHLETIC!
Oh well, we ALWAYS stumble into the break. C'mon Post All Star Game!
by A'sfansince1970 on Jun 24, 2007 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Shea is the worst
I've been to 10 stadiums and Shea was the worst. Craphole. Glad the A's are done there. They really need to turn things around. The division is almost gone. If they get to 10 back I think the wild card is our only shot at postseason.
by Mr C on Jun 24, 2007 11:07 PM PDT reply actions
A funny thing is baseball..
we are 9 games down before the all star break. At this point it does seem the Angels are the class of the AL west, but a lot can change in seven days. It's not unheard of for a good team to drop five in a row. If the Angels slip, the A's will be right on their throats. What if we are 3 games back on July 20th? Will there be as much gloom and doom as there is now? I would like to remind everyone that the Tigers led their division everday last season, except the one day that mattered. True they won the ALCS, but does anyone really believe that the Cards were the better team?
It's baseball, and it's still early. If our team gets hot at the right time, anything can happen!
This message has been brought to you by unwarranted optimism. I will resume broadcasting in realistic cynicism shortly.
(admits to not looking there in weeks)
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