Is Harden on the trading block?

by oaktownmario on Jun 22, 2007 8:57 PM PDT

While watching the Mets beatdown on Lenny "Why I Am I Starting" DiNardo and the A's, I almost turned off the tube. But I thought I might see Harden later and such was the case. I was viewing on the Mets channel and the broadcasters had an interesting discussion about Harden, which got me thinking.

The short of it was that the broadcasters were questioning why such a great talent like Harden, coming off an injury, would go to the bullpen instead of working up his pitch count in rehab for return as a starter. One of the guys then said he talked to Geren about the issue and that Geren said Harden would work out of the bullpen, eventually as the closer, and that "after the ASB" he would return to the rotation. When Geren was asked why a starter would not work as a starter to get himself ready for that role, Geren was said to not have been able to give an adequate answer.

This made me wonder: why would would you start Lenny DiNardo four times, when you could replace him with Harden?

I think and fear it is because the A's are seeking to trade Harden when he's healthy.

My reasoning is that Harden could have started yesterday or today in a minor league game and pitched 3 or 4 innings. If he was fine, his next start would be in place of DiNardo on 6/27, even if it was for only 4 or 5 innings. His next start would be July 2 for 5 - 7 innings, and he would have a final start before the ASB on July 7, with the ASB being July 9 - 11. He could then come back on full rest the first game after the break on July 12. This would give him four starts prior to the ASB, and more importantly remove Lenny to bullpen. Any team trying to stay in the race would surely pick Harden over Lenny in any start, especially our superintelligent GM. So why give Lenny four starts while Harden sits with the bullpen crew?

I think Billy is trying to trade him while healthy, and the best way to ensure a healthy Harden is to limit his pitches by giving him bullpen duty. Maybe the A's have medical knowledge that Harden will continue to breakdown as a starter, maybe they're just being logical and thinking that if he pitches less, he is less likely to reinjure himself. While in the bullpen, Beane can say "Look he's healthy, he's made 'x' appearances, and we're just building up his stamina." And maybe Billy is just tired of injured players with a lot of potential and little performance.

If you think Billy won't do it, just think of how you felt when Hudson and Mulder were traded, and to a lesser extent Milton. Expect Harden in a National League uniform by the end of July. If it doesn't happen, it won't be cuz Billy didn't try, but only because the price won't be right.

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Comments

He's not in shape to start

My guess is that he's not able to throw more than 50 pitches or so now, which is only good for 3 innings or so.

Then why not stretch him out in the minors? Well, because the A's pen hasn't been that great and his talent at 50 pitches is much better than most others.

If the right trade came along, I don't think Beane would hesitate to pull the trigger, but if you look closely enough, the A's aren't exactly getting blown out of the playoff race. They're trying to win ballgames and a Harden in the pen wins more games for the A's than a Harden starting in AAA.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jun 22, 2007 8:54 PM PDT reply actions

I agree, outside of Casilla and Embree, our pen

is not reliable. Harden can save us a couple of games from the pen, then move back into the rotation

by theblackpearl on Jun 22, 2007 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions

no.

"If you like baseball, if you know baseball, how can you not be crazy about Elly?" -Terry Francona

by Christine on Jun 22, 2007 9:03 PM PDT reply actions

I would never say never about trading anyone

but Harden in the bullpen wouldn't have much to do with it IMO. If we are showcasing him to other teams it would be as a starter because that would bring the most value in return.

"Shitburger, Skip?"

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 22, 2007 9:38 PM PDT reply actions

God, I sure hope he is

But as for the 'pen vs rotation -- I've given up trying to figure out what Beane thinks he's doing.

That's not such a bad idea ... but it's a strange inference. ~ mikeA @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 23, 2007 1:30 AM PDT reply actions

The playoff race is exactly why we might trade...

I have no idea if the right trade is out there, but Harden for a good RP/SP and a prospect could be exactly what we need. It would kill me, but Harden has been hurting my brain for years.

by SwisherSweet on Jun 23, 2007 8:18 AM PDT reply actions

agreed

Go A's!!!! Mike Scioscia is a fat tub of lard

by 3Chavy3 on Jun 23, 2007 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions

I watched the Mets broadcast, too

And I was surprised at how critical the broadcasters were about how Harden is being handled right now.

Their biggest concern seemed to be that SP's need to have a routine and putting him in the pen could mess up his normal routine. He's only 25 and they questioned why the A's would take chances with someone with so much talent as a starter. They ragged on this to such an extent it made me wonder if some of this was coming from Peterson.

With DiNardo getting shelled and Gaudin starting to look a little ragged with the number of innings he's putting up I think it would be a huge mistake to deal Harden.

by coffee roaster on Jun 23, 2007 8:43 AM PDT reply actions

good guess on Peterson

But as for the "huge mistake" -- apply Bradley logic here: how would we miss what we haven't been getting?

That's not such a bad idea ... but it's a strange inference. ~ mikeA @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 23, 2007 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions

good question

I'm not quite at the point of throwing Harden into the Bradley bin yet. If he can get away from throwing his splitter for 25 pitches a game I think he'd be slightly more durable, and still effective. He didn't throw a single one last night and did fine.

Despite the inning-long lecture by the Mets crew last night I still kind of like Harden in the pen for now. Embree has done a good job but I always feel a sense of impending doom when he starts the ninth.

by coffee roaster on Jun 23, 2007 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions

Don't worry about the Mets announcers

Any course of action that isn't standard operation procedure always gets at least initial skepticism from traditional baseball people. And where are traditional (conservative) baseball values any more entrenched than in the broadcast booth?

There is no doubt that Beane, Forst, Geren, and Young thought long and hard about their course of action here. Their decision may or may not be the optimal choice, but it certainly isn't thoughtless. It's a smart group, so I like their chances of being right.

Geren says they came up with a plan--"a flexible plan"--for working Harden into games while building him up to starting strength in about the same time frame that would be used in a rehab assignment. The Mets announcers haven't seen this course of action taken before and weren't privy to the discussions on how to do it, so the fact that they are skeptical and can't figure out how it can work should be neither surprising nor disconcerting.

by Faust on Jun 24, 2007 5:11 AM PDT up reply actions

Didn't BB say,

that they are playing it by ear with Harden? It makes sense to me for him to rehab with us in the BP rather than waste his innings at AAA.

I think religion is a neurological disorder that prevents people from thinking on their own.--B. Maher

by sf drift king on Jun 23, 2007 10:03 AM PDT reply actions

I agree Allen.

As long as they do not overuse him in the pen what difference does it make as to where he gets his arm in shape? Why shouldn't we use the same exact amount of pitches that he would throw in the minors on the A's to benefit the team? The criticism is unwarranted and of course the goal should BE to get him ready to try it as a starter again.

We are only 3 out on the WC and the second half of the season is yet to come. We need Harden. Our starters have done well but now Dinardo and Kennedy are stumbling and the pen is breaking down. It's good to know that Harden and perhaps Duke are on thier way to assist with that problem.

by IM4Oakgal on Jun 23, 2007 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions

In response to Allen and Oakgal . . .

There is absolutely no evidence that Harden used "the same amount of pitches" in his one inning last night, that he would have in a minor league rehab or starting last night's game. Harden threw 15 pitches last night. Hardly an amount needed to get him into "starter" shape. Granted, even if Harden could only throw 30, 40 or 50 pitches last night, why not start him instead of DiNardo and let DiNardo - who has no future as an A's starter - to come out of the pen. More importantly, the goal should be for Harden to start as many games as possible for the A's, while of course keeping him healthy. Roger Clemens took 3 starts to be ready after not having pitched until April or May. Harden could have been up to 70 pitches at least, in two starts.
I'm not arguing he should have started in the minors, but that he should be starting period. So I agree, why not use his pitches at the major league level, instead of using DiNardo's ineffective pitches right off the bat? It makes no sense to me. Get Harden in his starter routine from the get go, even if he only throws 3 innings. Let Lenny adjust to the reliever role. You admit that Harden is more important than Lenny right?

More importantly, if we think Harden should be used in a game, why not use him when it matters (like at the start), versus in a 9 - 1 blowout.

by oaktownmario on Jun 23, 2007 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions