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Just how bad is Piazza's defense?

Have you noticed that Jason Kendall isn't hitting very well this year? And that Jack Cust is? Yeah, me too. Let's suppose for the nonce that Cust doesn't turn back into a pumpkin, or some other variety of large squash, and keeps hitting enough that his spot in the lineup is a given. Whither Mike Piazza? Could he be the A's every day (or every other day) catcher, or is his defense really so bad that Jason Kendall (ugh) is still the better option.

Here's what the numbers say:

Star-divide

Defense:

I'll start by comparing Kendall's defense to Piazza using only last year's numbers:

                        Inn     SB      CS      E       PB      A
Kendall 2006    1254    71      31      5       7       54      
Piazza  2006    718     97      13      8       7       34
Piazza (proj)   1254    169     23      14     12       59

Piazza threw out runners at a much lower rate than Kendall, and the opposition further took advantage of his weak arm by running more frequently. All told, projecting Piazza's numbers to a full season, he would allow an extra 98 stolen bases, with 8 fewer caught stealing. In addition, Piazza would be responsible for 9 extra errors and 5 extra passed balls.

Using the run values from Tom Tango's work on Base Runs, this is worth approximately:
98*(.198) + 8*(.282) + 9*(.481)+5*(.276) = 27 runs.

That is, I'd expect the A's to allow about 27 more runs over a full season with Piazza as their everyday catcher than with Kendall. And that doesn't include any contribution from range in fielding bunts or other balls around the plate, blocking balls that would be scored as wild pitches, or any supposed effect that Kendall's game calling has on the pitchers' ERA.

Before we move to offense, let's look at how Kendall is doing so far this year, and again project it to a full season:

Kendall 2007    346     33      9       2       6       18
Kendall (proj)  1254   120     33       7      22       65

Using the same formula, compared to last year, Kendall has slipped on defense to the tune of
49*(.198) -2*(.282) + 2*(.481) + 15*(.276) =
14 runs/year, or about half the difference between him and Piazza last year.

Offense:

As I'm only trying to get a rough estimate here, I'm going to use OPS, a simple but crude tool, as a way of measuring offense. There are better ways of doing it, but I'm sure the difference wouldn't amount to more than a couple of runs. Predicting offensive performance is still difficult; putting a run value on that performance once it's happened is much easier, and for our purposes using OPS is good enough.

Let's again start by (mostly) ignoring what Kendall has done in the first couple of months of this season, and look at the previous years instead. In 2005 he had an OPS of .666, and in 2006 .709. Let's suppose he's declined a bit from that, but not to the depths of his 2007 performance, and say he could be expected to have a .650 OPS.

As for Piazza, he's also off to a fairly slow start (.718 OPS) this year, but was at .843 last year, .778 in 2005, and .806 in 2004. So how about a predicted .800 from him.

Now, over the course of a season, each point of team OPS translates into about 2.15 extra runs scored. Supposing that an everyday player gets about 1/10 of his team's plate appearances, this would give a difference of
150 * 2.15 /10 = 32 runs

If we instead use Kendall's actual performace this year (.435 OPS) as the basis of comparison ... well, I'll leave this one as an exercise for the reader. It's too ugly for me to contemplate.

There's one other point worth noting. Because teams are more likely to steal in close games than in blowouts, the extra runs scored will be more highly leveraged than average. So comparing runs saved with the glove to runs produced with the bat probably undervalues the better defensive catcher when it comes to wins and losses.

Conclusion:

Based on their performance over the last couple of years, we can conclude that Kendall and Piazza are surprisingly close in overall value at catcher. What that means for this year is still open for debate.

If you think that Kendall can rebound to his established levels of good-but-not-great defense and passable-but-not-good offense, and you also believe that his game-calling has a tangible effect on the pitching staff, or that Piazza's offense would suffer if he were moved back behind the plate, then it would make sense to stick with Kendall.

On the other hand, if you think that Kendall's awful start is a sure sign of a real decline in abilities compared to what he could do over the last two years, then it's worth tolerating Piazza's awful arm for the upgrade in offense.

Poll
Who do you think will be the regular catcher for the A's at the end of the season?
J.D. Closser
1 votes
Jeremy Brown
4 votes
Jason Kendall
87 votes
Mike Piazza
18 votes
Kendall/Piazza splitting time evenly
32 votes
Adam Melhuse
12 votes
Kurt Suzuki
40 votes

194 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 35 comments

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Nice analysis

It's hard to imagine that Kendall would continue to put in an offensive (non)performance so bad that it makes Neifi Perez look like Albert Pujols by comparison.

That said, I'm squarely in the "play Melhuse more" camp.  I don't think Kendall should loose his catching job right now, but I do think Melhuse should be playing 2 games for every 5 that Kendall plays.

Actually, doing that would give us at least some idea of what, of any, affect Kendall's game-calling has on the effectiveness of the pitchers.  If a clear difference emerges in how the starters do based on who is catching them, that would give a better indication of what the A's might lose/gain by switching Piazza for Kendall as the starting catcher.

Will there ever be a boy born who can swim faster than a shark?

by JLeverenz on May 21, 2007 11:25 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Kendall this year

The last time Kendall threw out a runner was April 15th (Jeter).  Since then, runners have stolen successfully against Kendall 29 straight times (9 of those have come with Gaudin on the mound).

This does not include the play in on April 25th in which Kendall was credited with a CS.  There were runners on the corners and Blanton faked to third and threw to 1st, picking off Ichiro.  Betancourt was on 3rd and took off for home, Ellis threw home, and Kendall tagged him out.

by fadedash on May 21, 2007 11:41 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Holy shit, si that right?

That is the most ridiculous stat I have heard all year.  29 straight?  No CS in a month?  WOW.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on May 21, 2007 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow, i wonder what the infamous record is?
subject to revision pending next issue

by ak_A on May 21, 2007 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you

One question about the stealing comparison:  shouldn't Piazza's CS-versus numbers from '06 be adjusted for the league difference?  In other words, since the NL is a more steal-happy league, presumably Piazza's numbers from '06 if dropped into the AL would have been a bit better, all other things being equal.

Watt Funk Staturist

by FreeSeatUpgrade on May 21, 2007 11:44 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Not true ...

the NL is no more "steal happy" than the AL.

So far in 2007, the average AL team has 2.63 more SB than the average NL team. Over the last 2+ (2005-5/21/07) seasons, the leagues are almost exactly equal, with the average team swiping 202.44 in the NL and 202.36 in the AL. Since 2003, the average AL team has stolen 16.4 more bags than the average NL team - a difference of nearly four per season.

If anything, the numbers should be shifted in Kendall's favor.

by devo on May 21, 2007 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're welcome

Yes, probably I should make that adjustment, but I don't think it turns out to be significant. Last year AL teams stole an average of 89 bases, and NL teams an average of 94. Adjusting Piazza's projected numbers by 5% would take away about 8 stolen bases, and 1 caught stealing, which would amount to 1 or 2 runs. I was just going for a rough estimate here. I think I have the BPro article that Danny mentions below, which I'm sure was done much more carefully, so maybe I'll take a look at that some time.

I don't know, I've never snelled.

by andeux on May 21, 2007 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent as usual andeux

A few scattered thoughts:
*Separated shoulder, AL pitching, continual age decline, conspicuous lack of power in the first five weeks of the season while fully healthy - I think an expectation of an .800 OPS the rest of the way for Piazza is overly optimistic. It's certainly possible that we've seen his best offensive performance of the season already.
*How many bases each league stole is less significant than their attempted steals, if we're attempting to establish the NL as the more "steal happy" league.
*Even when someone does post and use the attempted steal figures, those are potentially not the full picture:
A great defensive catcher inhibits running altogether - if the overall defense of catchers is better in the NL (a reasonable assumption, dictated by the NL style of play), that would inhibit running, and therefore skew the data in the AL's favor by making it appear that the league's were equal in terms of "desire to steal".
*Quality of base-stealers relative to each league, and even each TEAM. Stolen bases are a very top-heavy statistic - a very few players in the league accumulate a very high percentage of the league's stolen bases. (That's different than, say, runs scored, which has more normal distribution).

The last point is the most important one. Assuming Piazza calls a great game, and works well with pitchers, does he hurt you in EVERY game defensively? Perhaps not as much as one might imagine.  If we look closely at Piazza's game logs last year and the year before, I'd imagine we'd see many games where he allowed no SBs, and then several where he allowed FOUR or more.

Why is that? Because if you started Piazza at catcher vs. the Mets, it's a train wreck, and Jose Reyes alone will have four SBs.

If you start him there against a slow, plodding team, with zero SBs threats, I would argue (boldly, I'll admit) that the defensive loss vs. Kendall is inconsequential.

But again, I envision this last point to be moot, because I don't think Piazza will hit well enough to justify the upheaval in the cost/benefit analysis.

 

"I assumed a 'minotaie' was a mythical beast akin to a unicorn, but a lot smaller. Maybe that follows Scutaro around." -The inimitable Monkeyball

by notsellingjeans on May 22, 2007 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As for Kendall...

Kendall's task is enormous - the shift MLB defenses are using on him has basically wiped away his entire offensive contribution. That won't change over the course of the year much. He needs to reinvent himself as a hitter on the fly in mid-season and attempt to pull the ball much more often. That would force teams to play him in a more "true" alignment.

Stat of the day - Kendall's current Batting Average on Balls in Play (BABIP) is .215.

You know why that won't improve over the course of the year, unless he drastically changes his approach at the plate? Because typical BABIP averages (league-average is approximately .300) go out the window for Kendall when you consider this shift.

Hypothetical:
Imagine if Bonds had absolutely no power whatsoever - no ability to hit a home run, and very little chance of hitting the ball with enough authority to get a double. Yet he wasn't allowed to bunt to third, and still pulled the ball so often that teams used the Wishbone defense on him.
How terrible of a hitter would he be, if you took away all his power, knew he'd never hit to 1/3 of the field, and stacked all of your defenders everywhere else?

What Kendall faces is almost as dramatic. It's almost like having 10 fielders out there - until he radically changes his approach, hits to all fields, and forces teams to respect the left field line. If he does that, the whole field opens up, and his right field dinker returns.

That's the only scenario in which Kendall's BABIP, and then his BA, rise to respectability.

I'm telling you, the Kendall Shift is one of the unwritten stories in baseball this year. There is no hitter in baseball facing anything like it. (I wouldn't call the Bonds defense really even that unique anymore, since it's used for Hafner/Ortiz/Giambi/etc. as well).

"I assumed a 'minotaie' was a mythical beast akin to a unicorn, but a lot smaller. Maybe that follows Scutaro around." -The inimitable Monkeyball

by notsellingjeans on May 22, 2007 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is the shift this year

really different from last year? They definitely played him around to right field and extremely shallow last year. Also, I don't know where to find it, but would guess he has an unusually high gb% this year, and the problem is that his ground balls are much less likely than other players to turn into hits because he consistently hits them so weakly that the infielders can get to them no matter where he hits them.

The game represents... the checkered journey of life. - Milton Bradley

by mikeA on May 22, 2007 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

nicely done

Indeed, surprisingly close, given certain assumptions (all of which seem reasonable).

There's also injury/health status to consider, with Piazza coming back from his shoulder injury (which could negatively impact his offense, and could make his defense even worse) and Kendall potentially hiding some sort of injury/debilitation.

I for one have no desire to see Piazza or Kendall behind the plate.

You swing harder, you strike out; you try to throw harder, you hit the mascot. ~ theblackpearl @('.')@

by monkeyball on May 21, 2007 12:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes

I don't see it as a Kendall vs. Piazza dilemma, which Piazza probably wins by a hair.

They don't seem inclined to bench Kendall at this point, but if they did the question would then be who replaces him.

I am pretty confident that Melhuse/Closser/Suzuki would give us a better chance of winning than Piazza.

The game represents... the checkered journey of life. - Milton Bradley

by mikeA on May 21, 2007 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fantastic diary andeux

Great stuff.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on May 21, 2007 12:13 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Steals in high leverage situations:

Another thing to think about is that having a terrible defensive catcher would perhaps hurt us most against the Angels.

The game represents... the checkered journey of life. - Milton Bradley

by mikeA on May 21, 2007 12:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Great Diary

I remember one of the Prospectus books a few years ago having an essay on catcher defense, and they had Piazza with something like 6 of the worst 8 defensive seasons of all time behind the plate.

Anyway, I think a bit of a platoon could work.  Here's what I'd like to see with everyone healthy:

vs. RHP:
C: Kendall/Piazza
1B: Johnson
LF: Swisher
CF: Kotsay
RF: Bradley
DH: Cust/Piazza

vs. LHP
C: Kendall
1B: Swisher
LF: Stewart
CF: Bradley
RF: Kielty
DH: Piazza

Piazza would catch a few days a week against RHP.  Snelling would sub liberally for Kotsay and Bradley to keep them fresh, and Cust would get some time in LF against RHP.

by Danny on May 21, 2007 1:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Actually, they weren't paraplegics
until Cust crushed them.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 21, 2007 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think I read that article

As I recall, Hatteberg also made the list several times, in part because during his years with Boston he had the unenviable job of being Wakefield's catcher (and in part because he just wasn't a good defensive catcher).

I don't know, I've never snelled.

by andeux on May 21, 2007 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

could we trade piazza?

i assume we can't trade kendall, but maybe we could trade piazza for something that we now need more than DH -- perhaps a healthy bullpen arm or pitcher?  or maybe someone who is currently injured for the rest of 2007 but maybe won't be hurt in 2008?

Hi ho.

by danh on May 21, 2007 2:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think the answer to this is obvious

Make Jack Cust a catcher!  Sure he may not be the best defensive outfielder but that's just because he hasn't found his true position.  And dognabbit, he's Jack Cust!

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on May 21, 2007 3:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Offense/Defense platoon

I think the team should try to reduce Kendall's playing time, or at least PAs.  Pinch-hitting aggressively for Kendall when he starts is one way, letting Piazza start more games with Kendall coming in if the A's get a lead is another.  We might have to carry three catchers then, but Piazza as a righty off the bench wouldn't be a waste.  I think Bochy did this to some extent last year with Piazza.  

by johnny D on May 21, 2007 5:19 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Here's how you do it:
Let's say you're on the road. A high OBP pinch-hitter type (like a Todd Walker, or Chris Snelling) leads off at catcher. Kendall then comes into play defense in the bottom of the 1st and stays in. You have a good lineup to try to score in the 1st, and Kendall is now doing exactly what A's fans keep calling for: He is batting 10th in the lineup.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 21, 2007 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

by golly that is crazy, it might just work

worth trying. (email to geren)

subject to revision pending next issue

by ak_A on May 21, 2007 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i like it

instead of "pinch hitting" can we call that "pre hitting".  if we had melhuse pre hit for kendall then he wouldn't have to sit around anxiously wondering if he was going to get into the game.  

alternatively, melhuse could bat 9th, catch, and take kendall's first 19 at bats so that kendall would be batting 180th.  "Now batting 180th, and batting .180, Jaaaassssoooooooon Kendallllllllllll!"

Hi ho.

by danh on May 22, 2007 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

prehitting -- what a concept

but don't put Melhuse there.

Prehit a high obp bench player (Walker is gone), who bats first. Replace him with Kendall for the defensive half of the inning. Later in the game if Kendall comes to bat in a signficicant spot with runners on base, pinch hit for him (could be Melhuse or other). After that Melhuse catches.

I'm sure there's a reason why this isn't a good idea, but I can't think of it.

by OaklandSi on May 22, 2007 6:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only reason I can think of
is that you lose one of only 4 bench players in the 1st inning. To get around that, cut Witasick and ask DiNardo to eat all the innings formerly eaten by DiNardo and Witasick combined--not hard to do. Replace Witasick with a 5th bench player. All the player needs to have is a decent OBP--can be a terrible fielder, doesn't need to have great power. Lead him off, replace with Kendall after the half-inning and you haven't used up a catcher. Late in the game you can pinch hit Melhuse for Kendall. Kendall might play 8 innings behind the plate and get 2 ABs.

It's brilliant. <copyrights idea>

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 22, 2007 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

BARTON!
He used to catch. So it works on the road AND at home, where Barton can catch the top of the first, hit, and then sit, watch and learn for the last 8 innings of each. And Barton's main strength is OBP.

So if you don't care about completely stunting the development of a 21 year old who needs to be playing every day, it's a flawless plan!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 22, 2007 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it only works on the road... duh!
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching."- former A's pitcher Satchel Paige

by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on May 22, 2007 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

do you have to use the DH for the pitcher?

maybe we could let some of our pitchers hit, and use the DH for the catcher position?  then we could have a hitter in kendall's spot, kendall can continue to call games like a genius and throw out runners on a monthly basis, prehit for the pitcher on road games (i'm guessing this isn't allowed since we don't see it happen in the NL, but what the heck), and pinch hit for the pitcher when reasonable.
i think the warriors can beat the spurs.

Hi ho.

by danh on May 22, 2007 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good Idea

I was thinking the same thing. DH for Kendall, the pitchers have to hit at least as well as him.

Just kidding, with our luck Haren would get hurt swinging the bat.

by bl on May 22, 2007 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the reason no team has never done this weird crap

before is that any other GM or Manager would have already SAT the guy.

by Hawaii FO on May 23, 2007 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Piazza's 27 runs worse defensively than Kendall!

Wow, no wonder Beane and Geren don't want to see him back there.  That would be ugly!

This is really good.  I learned something new.

by WaddellCanseco on May 22, 2007 1:19 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

A new development

Remember the KNBR Saarloos-for-Craig Wilson rumors of two years ago?  Well guess who cleared waivers today?  That's right, a kindof catcher with a high OBP and pretty high slugging, Mr. Craig Wilson.  For major league minimum we could pick up a guy who can play OF AND C and who hits for twice Kendall's OPS.  

Also, this will sound crazy but, how about trading for Matt Murton?  He's young, can hit, and could play CF. The Cubs are looking desperately for one thing and one thing alone: bullpen help.  In the book Fantasyland, Billy Beane is quoted as saying one thing about managing a fantasy team: trust your paradigm.  Well my paradigm was that our biggest strength was the bullpen.  If we could trade some of that depth (Calero/Duke maybe?) for Matt Murton I think it could really benefit us.  

Both tidbits of info come from http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on May 22, 2007 5:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

funny you should mention fantasy baseball ...

because that's the only place where Craig Wilson belongs behind the plate ... though perhaps if the other option is Mike Piazza ...

by devo on May 22, 2007 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh. Fantasy is also
the only place where we can deal our bullpen from a position of strength. WITASICK! GETCHER CALERO--FIRST HANGING SLIDER FREE!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 22, 2007 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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