Are We Missing More Than Offense?
non se•qui•tur (n.)
1. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence.
2. A statement that does not follow logically from what preceded it.
Nothing will make you lose credibility faster than pointing to an event in baseball and drawing a desired, but erroneous conclusion from it. Sample trigger words include, ‘gritty’, ‘hustle’, ‘fire’, and ‘Ozzie’.
Knowing this, it would have been awfully irresponsible of me to title yesterday’s wrapup: ‘Manager Ejection in Fifth Leads Team to Rally in Ninth’, as tempting as it might have been. It’s certainly been done before, and it probably sounds a little better than: ‘Awesome Closer Stupidly Hangs 0-2 Pitch to Rookie, Basically Handing Over the Save to the Other Team’.
Funny game, baseball. In other sports, you can watch your manager get kicked out of the game arguing a call, or watch the other team take cheap shots at your best player, and use these actions to fuel the anger and passion necessary to play at another level. With the proper motivation, other sports can play just a little bit better.
Baseball is not always exempt; we see pitchers being fired up all the time, sometimes resulting in ‘a little something extra’ on the ball. Yet it seems to me that the art of hitting isn’t something that relies intensely on player emotions. No matter how angry the A’s offense might become, it still won’t translate into bat speed or hitting competence, and as good of a story as it may seem, Geren getting tossed--even while saving the game in the very real sense that it kept Chavez in it--had nothing to do with Buck’s homerun in the ninth or the Piazza/Johnson run in the tenth.
Yet, what is it about a manager getting ejected that brings such a sense of satisfaction to the players and fan base alike? I know for me, this was high on my list of frustrations with Ken Macha. I hated when Macha refused to argue a call, or seemingly stand up for one of his players, or basically show any emotion at all at a perceived injustice on the field. And, interestingly enough, my frustration had nothing at all to do with the fact that I though it would make a tangible difference in the game. I don’t think Chavez, brimming with righteous indignation, was going to be able to ‘hit one for the gipper’ off anyone that pitched last night. I don’t think it logically follows that offensive performance somehow increases with an increase in passion and fire.
Yet even by that token, I would say that passion and fire are part what this A’s team is missing, and it was nice to see even a brief glimpse of it last night. But why? Is passion and fire, coming from the top down, a necessary ingredient for a winning team? Does it matter--either in the long or short run--if a manager never moves from the bench, or if he ‘Sweet Lou’s’ it up all over the place? And taking it a step further, do we miss more than Milton’s bat on the field?
Thoughts to ponder while we wait for the game to start, as the A's go for the sweep in Fenway. That's right; I said it.
Game time 4:05 PT.
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45 comments
Comments
The thing about Geren's ejection...
I didn't think he was "fired up" before being thrown out. I think he just went out there to make sure Chavy didn't get thrown because the ump was FED up right then.
Ortiz should've been tossed.
by Poppy on May 2, 2007 8:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No joke...
I couldn't believe he wasn't!
by baseballgirl on May 2, 2007 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed - strange that Papi didn't get tossed
by Randy Bell on May 2, 2007 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I was speaking more generally :-)
And, FWIW, I wanted to toss the ball boy too!
by baseballgirl on May 2, 2007 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the ball boy did MaEl a favor!
Wouldn't that ball have ricocheted right to the SS if it was left alone?
by Poppy on May 2, 2007 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For me...
...I think it was the principle, more than the actual outcome, I think.
by baseballgirl on May 2, 2007 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that explains it, then.
I have no principles. ;)
by Poppy on May 2, 2007 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
gawd, we saw that play
with the twirpy little petulant faced ball boy (sans proper cap)on espn enough....he should have booted out promptly.
by ak_A on May 2, 2007 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't get to see....
Last night's game, but I do think that our teams of the last decade have been missing "something". I mean just look at the way the Warriors have been playing in the playoffs. They play like they all have chips on their shoulder. We take strike three's with the bases loaded in the playoffs and forget to touch home plate.
Basically, what I am saying is I really just wish this team had a matt barnes. Can you imagine if ellis went out and got a neck tattoo the size of a softball between games? I think that is certainly something we're missing...
by CyZito on May 2, 2007 9:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ellis with a tat?
That would be AWESOME!
Of course, knowing our team, it would be of a giant unicorn, but hey, better than clean skin, right?!
by baseballgirl on May 2, 2007 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the A's and the W's...
should swap Ellises and see if anyone notices?
(From what I've seen, I'm not sure the postseason version of Monta would help anyone...)
by Poppy on May 2, 2007 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think if getting fired up increases confidence
than that is a good thing. I remember a few years ago against the Yankees when it was the bottom of the 9th and Miggy got fired up. No way was he going to be intimidated just because Mariano River was pitching! He kept saying "We're going to get him!" or something like that. Sure enough, he hit a game winning double.
by kaweahkaweah on May 2, 2007 9:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Miggy Used To Get Fired Up...
... and jack game winning hits. I think firey personalities perform better in the clutch. It's about having a flare for the dramatic, wanting to be the guy up in the important moments of the game because you just "know" you are going to get the big hit. If you watch Chavy, or anyone else other than Scutaro, up in a key moment, they try and take balls to get walks because they are scared to take a cut and be the goat. This inevitably leads to getting down in the count and then swinging at slop in 0-2 and 1-2 counts (Buck last night excepted because Papelbon threw a bad 0-2 pitch). You don't see that out of the true superstars in the league, see: Vlad, Man-Ram, Papi, Miggy, etc.
by dolemite on May 2, 2007 9:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Miggy got "fired up" in the playoffs
and decided to quit on a play and whine to the ump rather than simply touch home plate. Ditto Byrnes. For all the complaining that some people do about the team lacking fire or heart, if they had traded some fire and heart for a little more brains they would have beat the Red Sox in 2003.
by andeux on May 2, 2007 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Without Miggy...
... no one would have been fired up, or cool headed, or brainy in the playoffs... there would have been no playoffs.
Milton got fired up in the playoffs last year and was the only one who showed up. It must be his brains.
by dolemite on May 2, 2007 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley
Bradley was awful in the first round last year (he hit .077) and then got hot in the second round. Was he not fired up against the Twins? Most of the rest of the team (Thomas, Scutaro, and pretty much the whole pitching staff) did the opposite. Did they get fired up for a week and then suddenly lose their passion?
Tejada had a ton of big hits in the regular season (more in 2002 than in 2003) but sucked every single year in the playoffs. Was he incapable of being fired up in October?
by andeux on May 2, 2007 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're changing the focus of this discussion
My point was and is that players who "fire up" are better clutch hitters. Milton does this, Scutaro does this, Chavy does not do this.
The ones who fire up have a better approach in clutch situations and those who do not fire up have a let's get this over with approach. Watch Chavy up in the 9th inning in any game, his ABs are all identical:
first pitch (the best one he'll see all AB): strike one down the middle of the plate
second pitch: ball one up high setting him up to swing away later
third pitch: inside corner, strike two looking
fourth pitch: low and away, strike three swinging
Miggy, Milton, and Scutaro go out there looking to get a big hit and often do. Performance is not solely based on getting fired up (as you have shifted my argument to be), it is just helpful in the approach the player takes in clutch situations. Miggy could come out hacking and hit into a DP, but he gave himself the chance to rip one, Chavy comes out and puts himself in a hole.
Chavy's patient approach may work in the early stages of the game or against middle relievers but closers are often the best pitcher a guy faces all day and they are capable of throwing strikes (over-generalization I know, but nevertheless mostly true). In the playoffs, every AB is like the 9th inning (with respect to intensity and quality of pitchers faced) and you need to be able to come out and hit the few good pitches you see. Being fired up to hit the ball is an important aspect of being able to do that.
by dolemite on May 2, 2007 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thye need to hang out with barnes and sjax
by fadedash on May 2, 2007 10:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
gary sheffield and dcabrera were fired up
and we know what happened there
by fadedash on May 2, 2007 10:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's about focus
In a long season, each game may bleed into the next. If you get into a rut, sloppy play begets sloppy play. Something, anything can be used to spike the intensity. Getting ejected every day won't do it, but some days, it might help.
Especially if the manager getting ejected prevents the third baseman from being ejected.
by MobiusKlein on May 2, 2007 10:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
it's obvious what motivated the A's last night
They were all waiting on tenterhooks for bbg's QOTM diary.
Carrot and stick, folks, carrot and stick.
bbg, I think you should keep procrastinating on the April QOTM diary, to keep the motivational mojo going.
by monkeyball on May 2, 2007 10:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ha ha...it's posted.
I have to do everything around here. ;-)
by baseballgirl on May 2, 2007 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manager
I think one of the reasons fans and players get a boost out of seeing the manager come out and confront umps is because of the infrequency with which these situations occur in baseball.
In basketball and football, the head coach is a much more active participant throughout the entire game, calling plays, making substitutions, and working the officials. Since the head coach is on the sideline in both sports he is just as visible as the players to everyone involved in the game and that also brings him into more contact with the officials throughout the game. The players on a basketball team can see their coach working the officials throughout the game and know that he is doing everything he can to help them.
In baseball however, the manager plays a more passive role. He sets the lineup and occasionally makes substitutions, but unless it's pitching change in the middle of an inning he does all that from the dugout where he can barely be seen unless you are on the field or sitting in the right seats close to the field.
The ONLY time a manager is really visible is when he comes out to argue calls on behalf of his players. It's his only opportunity to really get actively involved in the game and I think this is why players and fans get fired up when it happens.
by JLeverenz on May 2, 2007 10:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great topic
I grew up in the Northeast playing hockey. I know that I was "up" more for some games or shifts than I was for others. Either because of the competition, or it was a big game,or whatever. I think this holds true for anyone who plays sports. Always play hard, but sometimes a little fuel in the fire helps. Just be careful not to burn out.
As always...
Go A's!
by letsgoas on May 2, 2007 11:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I absolutely agree on Macha's nonchalance
It didn't matter when, it didn't matter where, but seemingly every time I saw Macha in the dugout he radiated an aura of nonchalance. (Okay, that's not technically true. It was damn impressive to see him restrain Bradley in the climactic A's-Angels game last September, the one that provided yet another example of Marco magic and reduced our magic number to two.) And while I know that it's the players who have to go out and compete, it would drive me batty for the same reasons that you document BBG. It just never seemed like he was willing to fight for the players, to even make an attempt to right what was perceived as a wrong.
Conversely, I found it rather joyous to listen to Korach's relaying of Geren's emotion. I didn't see the call myself so I'm in no position to judge whether Chavy went around or not, but the very fact that Geren was willing to go out there and stick his neck out was appreciated all the same. Plus Korach himself was telling the story with absolute relish and that was enjoyable in its own right.
As for the larger topic at hand, I happen to think that the more emotion shown on the field the better. Others above me have mentioned Miggy's passion and while I do agree that his energy would sometimes be misplaced (the oft-mentioned Game 3 of the 2003 ALDS is a prime example), for the most part, I loved to see Miggy get fired-up. It was especially thrilling to see his fist pumps after his three-run jack to win what would be our 18th win in The Streak.
I'm not willing to say that greater displays of emotion would lead to better results for our beloved team, but I certainly wouldn't mind seeing them wearing their fiery faces. 'Cause, ya know, if they were really gritty (and getting themselves thrown out at second base to end the game rather than having a rookie hit a two-run homer to send it into extras) they'd be throwing batting helmets left and right.
Oh and BTW, Baseballgirl, you should have been sent a new payment for AN Day IV just a few minutes ago. I was at the first one, missed the next two, and am now damn excited to be at this one. I can't really imagine a better way to be spending my first weekend as a Bay Area resident.
by Wes7 on May 2, 2007 11:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
WOO HOO!!!
Can't wait to see you there!
by baseballgirl on May 2, 2007 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Piazza said it best:
"The second half of the game, we upped our enthusiasm," Piazza said. "We believed we could win instead of rolling over after skipper was kicked out of the game."
There you go.....
by Masaryk on May 2, 2007 12:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, of course, he'd SAY that... ;-)
by baseballgirl on May 2, 2007 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps
Perhaps passion and emotion are byproducts OF winning, which would explain, ostensibly, why it is a necessary ingredient.
by riverchat on May 2, 2007 12:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting...deep...
Ahhh...chicken before egg theory.
by baseballgirl on May 2, 2007 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hard to say, forex look at the yankees ..
.. who have the winning-est record in baseball from the year 2000 to the present. Yet the Yanks are a very cool, professional bunch - hardly hotheads or emotionally intense types. :)
by Randy Bell on May 2, 2007 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
check a Paul Oneill groundout
by rebus on May 2, 2007 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big Hurt's bat woke up in Toronto last year (like
Giambi's did when he returned to Oakland a few years back (while with Yankers). Chavy gave that motivational speech in 2005 that seems to have prompted the crazy run that followed the awful start. And who can forget Kendal's HR last year? Baseball is hugely psychological, it seems to me, and getting "fired up" doesn't mean that you start flapping your wings like a chicken, but rather that passion can help players rediscover confidence and focus.
by LAXile on May 2, 2007 12:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you meant Chicago
by doctorK on May 2, 2007 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow. yeah. i've been geographically challenged
of late.
by LAXile on May 2, 2007 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may have a good point about ..
.. season changing moments .. Definitely the Kendall HR in Oakland {against KC if I recall correctly} was a turning point, and one has to wonder if Chavy's famous motivational speech in 2005 did spark the team .. Isn't it interesting that those two moments happened at the darkest of times? - with Kendall's HR the A's were having their usual May doldrums, and with Chavy's speech the A's had just gotten swept by the Nats on the road - they went on to take 2 of 3 in Atlanta, and then the famous 48-10 hot streak of .800 ball during the summer of '05. :)
by Randy Bell on May 2, 2007 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or maybe
Those two moments correlated with the A's rebound rather than caused them. Kind of like Stewart's and Crosby's MVP campaigns that never should have been that were based on the continued inability of the media to separate the two concepts.
by BlameChannel53 on May 2, 2007 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep...
...I ground my teeth every time someone said, "The A's were a much better team when Crosby was in the lineup."
by baseballgirl on May 2, 2007 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep, that got real old
from every play by play, color, and commentary person ad nauseum. Their work prep in the morning was 1. shower. 2. shave 3. dress 4. re-phrase crosby same old crosby-a's comment.
by ak_A on May 3, 2007 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really appreciated how Macha would only
argue calls that he was sure about. Then again, I've always liked guys who don't fit the traditional baseball mold like Macha and Chavez.
Geren's great because he strikes a balance between the two, the Chavvys and Miltons. We do need guys who get fired up to elevate their play on a game to game basis, but we also need even keel guys who play through the month to month ups and downs without causing disruptions.
I'm not saying these things are mutually exclusive for players, but it's important to have a good mixture of personalities.
by rebus on May 2, 2007 2:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Things in heaven and earth
Baseball is one of the most closely analyzed human activities, much more so than most of the programs our tax money supports. We have minute statistics and so many aspects of the game that we tend to think the whole thing is a completely understood phenomenon. All we have to do is look at the numbers and it all becomes clear.
That's an illusion, of course. While it's possible that we may someday be able to predict what pitch Curt Schilling is going to throw to Eric Chavez on the 1-2 count in the first inning, and whether he's going to miss his target or not, and whether Chavvy is going to take the bat off his shoulder or not, and where the ball is going to go if it is hit, and where the fielder is going to be positioned, and what kind of start he gets on the ball, and whether it's going to stay in his glove or not, and what kind of throw he's going to make, and what the baserunners are going to do, and which way the ump is going to lean on a close call, we can't predict all of that today.
We can say that Chavvy is going to beat Schilling one time out of four, but we don't know where or when or by how much.
All of the things that escape our statistical models are known as "intangibles", and we try to make sense of them by subdividing them into sub-categories of ignorance that go by names like "passion," "hustle," "grit," and "clutch." If Chavy's one-in-four success against Schilling comes with men on base in a close game, he's got "grit", and if Milton's spectacular catch saves a run in a close game he's got "passion." And we know which players have these intangibles because we carry around memories of close games that were tilted one way or the other by Marco Scutaro's bat or Chavy's fielding or Street's slider.
So it's legitimate to talk about these poorly-understood parts of the game, especially because they're the things that make it exciting to be a fan.
Emotion certainly plays a part in baseball, just as it does in all other highly significant human activities, such as love, marriage, eating, and business, and we can start the analysis of emotion and sports with a little science. Adrenalin gets people fired up, and it has some effects that are readily visible in baseball: a narrowing of attention and an increase in muscle strength. A fielder carrying a high adrenalin load is going to get to hit ball just a little quicker, but he's also more likely pull a hamstring or dislocate a shoulder in the process. Similarly, an adrenalin-tripping batter will hit the ball harder if he's not fooled by the pitcher, but he can also strain his back and maybe break a little vertebra.
Baseball players need to strike a balance of passion and relaxation to play the game at the high level that translates into major league victories. We don't know how to keep a whole team balanced at the perfect point, which is probably someplace a little different for each player anyhow, but that's where things like clubhouse chemistry and team leadership come into play.
It's probably the case that players and coaches who can fire up a team that's too relaxed are no more important than those who can loosen a team up when it's too tight. Strictly as a mathematical thing, there are so many players in so many different emotional states that no one approach to emotional balance is perfect all the time. It's situational, like so many other things.
One of the things I like about the team the A's are putting on the field these days is the blend of rookies and younger players looking to make their mark on the team with old guys like Piazza, Walker, Kotsay, and Loaiza who have wisdom to share. Sometimes this is a little silly (like when Swisher takes the role of mentor to Travis Buck and imparts life lessons on the young stud that he himself only learned last week), but it's an important dynamic and central game-within-the-game of baseball.
And all that being said, I really do miss Milton's presence in the game. His performance against the Tigers in last year's ALCS was the only bright spot in a dismal team performance, but it would have been awe-inspiring at any time in the season.
by BubbaDude on May 2, 2007 2:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
pittsburg a couple of years ago
I believe it was the bottom of the eighth, with the Pirates ahead by 3. The Pirates reliever, I believe it was Solomon Torres, throws at the A's hitter (and I completely forget who it was now) after a Pirates hitter had been plunked the inning before. Totally stupid NL "gamesmanship". Well, the benches clear, the A's get fired up, and bat around Jose Mesa who's forced to come in the 8th because of Torres ejection. A's win the game - and just having been there, I couldn't tell you how much I thought the A's were simply cruising through a meaningless loss until Torres decided to throw at the A's hitter...
by NicksDreamy on May 2, 2007 2:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Fired up but under control
One thing the A's broadcaster pointed out during last night's game:
Papi didn't like the out side strike called, argued with the ump, that's being fired up
Varitek didn't like the out side strike called either, but he didn't talk to the ump, just mumbled on his way back to the dugout. He did it because he's the catcher, and would be a bigger deal if he pissed off the ump and don't get strikes called for his team. He's still fired up, but he's under control.
I hope our players can find ways to show their emotions to motivate their teammates, without showing up the ump.
by asfansince1989 on May 2, 2007 5:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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