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CrosbyWatch: When will you eat crow?

A good friend of mine says that he is giving Crosby one last chance and that he should, be the all star break, bat his weight (215) with five home runs.  My standards are not set so low.  Crosby's show last night was promising but as I said in a comment on last night's wrapup thread, one night of non-suckness doesn't not necessitate a comeback without a positive trend.  His performance today seems to be a return to form with an o-fer with 2 K's and no walks.

If Crosby gets the message and starts making adjustments an improving, I think he can and will be a 30/30 guy.  With Geren being very smart on the basepaths, I do think 30/30 is possible for Crosby.  Until then, he's just going to suck.

So what will it take for me to eat crow?  I wanna see the following stats from Crosby by the all star break:

.240 AVG and a less than 2:1 K/BB ratio and I don't give a rat's ass how many jacks he hits.

.240 is attainable for Crosby and is better than his "ROY" numbers and his K/BB ratio was better than 2:1 in the 2005 season.  2005 was year of hope, he batted in the .270's and was pretty good until he got hurt.  He has sucked ever since.

So, what will it take for you to eat crow when it comes to the Croz?

Star-divide

UPDATE 4/18 9:27 PM: .240 with a 2:1 K/BB ratio is only the first step.  At that point I will cease to be a hater and will only golf clap with no verbal cheers unless if it's a key situation where I'll do a "Let's go Oak-land" or a "Let's go A's."  Crosby will have to work real hard to deserve my enthusiasm and awesome God-given voice.

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At least

1 and a half healthy seasons.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Apr 18, 2007 6:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I pretty much agree with both of you

I can do without homers.  Doubles are better for starting & keeping a rally going anyway.  But .240 isn't a bad number nor is your K/BB ratio.  But that's really only the first step.  If he meets that standard I'd give him another shot, but after that he needs to improve on it and show us what all the hype over him was about.  A big part of that is staying healthy for more than a couple of months at a time.

Jeff of Lookout Landing: "Crosby turns routine play. The Mariners didn't plan on this unforeseen turn of events."

by DMOAS on Apr 18, 2007 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it really you, Joe?

"Doubles are better [than HRs] for starting & keeping a rally going."  Hmmm, this is awfully Joe Morganesque.  While I think I understand your point, I fairly confident that HRs have a much better correlation to runs scored than doubles.  Call me crazy.

A kitten bats around a ball of yarn but what he's really saying is, "You know I can't knit, motherf'er." That is one foul mouthed kitten. - Mitch Hedberg (RIP)

by RayRay59 on Apr 18, 2007 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant

merely in the continued pressure on the pitcher/defense sense :)  Yes, when all is said and done, especially proven by the A's offense, a home run is far and away better than a double.  But once you round the bases, the pressure is off the pitcher, he has three bases to give away instead of two.

Jeff of Lookout Landing: "Crosby turns routine play. The Mariners didn't plan on this unforeseen turn of events."

by DMOAS on Apr 18, 2007 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL, you get a pass this time

You know what's continued pressure?  Scoring that run.  One guaranteed run scored is better than one potential run at second, just sayin' ...

by Rickeyfan on Apr 18, 2007 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To actually eat crow?

For me, that would mean a reasonable semblance of what Crosby "should" be doing given expectations and his contract, and what a team should reasonably expect from its starting SS

For me, three full months of

  • Playing more or less every day (no extended back problems)
  • .270 BA, with an OBP north of .320. This would be the bare minimum. I'd like to see a conscious effort on Croz' part to go to the opposite field.
  • Defense is harder to measure, but I don't want to cringe every time he throws to first

I don't know that I'd accept him as a great player at that point, but I wouldn't feel rage every time I looked at him:)

by Alien on Apr 18, 2007 7:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree with that

Those are realistic benchmarks, plus 25 HR power over a full season.  At that point, with his defensive range and ability, that would put him as an above average shortstop.  The freaky thing is, he can be better than that, probably a .280, 30 HR guy at his peak playing very above average defense (maybe not quite gold glove caliber but close), so that would be something if he developed into that kind of player.  I honestly think he has the talent to do it, what has stopped him have been the injuries.  He hasn't been able to really play continuously and get into a groove.  He'll be fine, IF he stays healthy.

"Look at this, OK? I want you to remember this face. This is the guy behind the guy behind the guy."

by baseb3383 on Apr 19, 2007 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

See, my problem isn't that
I don't think Crosby can hit .240. My problem is that I do think he can hit .240. In fact,  .240 is what he has hit for his career with the "approach that has worked since High School," and it is precisely on the basis of his career performance that I am critical and pessimistic. The guy adjusts to major league pitching about as quickly as the ocean adjusts to continental drift.

But yes, I agree Crosby can be a 30/30 guy. Unfortunately, it's not the RBI or error total I want from my shortstop. Kidding, he's better than that. A little.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 18, 2007 8:22 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I say let's have faith in the kid.

He's still young, still learning as a hitter (we hope!), and still has great potential.  Sure it's hard to be so patient, after three seasons and more disappointment than fulfillment, but Crosby is an excellent fielder (when he's right), which is always a good starting point for your shortstop.  He's got pop, runs pretty well, and should be still in the upswing portion of his career.  

Besides, though I adore Senor Clutch, I honestly think he is stretched as an everyday shortstop, both in the field and at the plate; I like him better as a supersub, almost in a kind of three-way rotation with Crosby and Ellis, to give those guys a day off when needed.  He gives us great infield depth, and he'll still get plenty of at-bats (especially in 9th innings!); but I think we should let Crosby play and hope for his good health.

After all, a good fielding shortstop who can hit .250 with 20 homers and a few walks is definitely a championship-quality ballplayer ...and I think Crosby is capable of exceeding even those numbers.  

"There's one word that says it all about baseball--you never know." - Joaquin Andujar

by TheBigO on Apr 19, 2007 9:15 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

For me, it's simple.

Stop swinging at pitches that are going to bounce in front of the fucking plate.

The same night he hit his three-run jack, he swung at an 0-2 pitch that was sinking out of the hand for a lazy K.

I think Crosby is talented - it's just that he's 'league average' talented, and to me that's a spot we can upgrade, especially if he can't lay off a pitch that makes the catcher scramble.

"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Apr 19, 2007 10:01 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

But I'll tell you

Swish swings at those same pitches.  He's a talented hitter as well.  Both are learning, Crosby just hasn't had the overall game experience due to some freak injuries.

"Look at this, OK? I want you to remember this face. This is the guy behind the guy behind the guy."

by baseb3383 on Apr 19, 2007 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be honest...
..Swisher is another guy who is upgradeable.

Of course, if you traded him, you run the risk he'll suddenly find his form and belt 50 in a season, but he always seems to average out to a .245 average and decent, if not scary, power, and I can't see that changing radically this season.

"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Apr 19, 2007 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There really isn't much...

even when he was healthy last year he did nothing to excite me.

Bobby is and will be an average player at best.
Investing in him long term would be a huge mistake by the club.

Perhaps he will live up to some of his potential elsewhere but right now I don't see him helping out team.

"I hate the Angels"

by Vegas A's Fan on Apr 19, 2007 10:02 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't see anything to lose by extending him

I don't think any other teams would be all that excited about Crosby, so we might as well keep him around.  He could turn out to be pretty good.  The thing is, there are so many poor hitting shortstops out there or good hitting shortstops who can't field, an average season from Crosby (.260-.270 with 25 HRs + average defense) is still better than most and puts him as an above average shortstop.  And if he gets better than that, we've got a top 10 MLB shortstop signed to a cheap deal.

"Look at this, OK? I want you to remember this face. This is the guy behind the guy behind the guy."

by baseb3383 on Apr 19, 2007 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm confused. Who's this Crosby you're talking

about who's averaged .260-.270/25HRS/average defense? The Crosby I know who plays for the A's averages .242/19HRS/average defense.
Please clarify. Thanks.

by Bacon on Apr 19, 2007 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My hopes/expectations are still high

I'm not ready to give up on him for a few reasons:

  1.  He has a huge upside as a great SS (maybe not Gold Glove caliber, but maybe so).  If we ended up getting a top flight defensive SS, he could also switch to CF after Kotsay is gone, where he would shine with his glove, speed, size and arm.  
  1.  He has legitimate power.  We've all seen it.  When he hits the ball on the screws, it jumps off his bat.  Power to all fields, too, which is something that's not so common, and even less so on our A's.  I do wish he was a more patient or disciplined hitter, but when he gets into a groove he can be a force.
  1.  What's our other option?  Scutaro isn't and I don't believe we have any great prospects at SS.

by iceplant on Apr 19, 2007 10:28 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

#3 isn't really relevant

The reason Oakland doesn't have another option is because of Beane's insistence on providing no competition for Crosby. I agree that Scutaro is not (defensively) a long term solution, but Billy has never even bothered to sign a legitamite back-up SS that he could, if nothing else, stash in AAA.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Apr 19, 2007 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Before I cheer for the guy, I need to see...

.400 BA, 76 HRs, 132 stolen bases.

"Okay, now I know who drank the rest of my six-pack of Bitchy McSnarky's Snarkalicious Snarkade..." -Poppy

by McFood on Apr 19, 2007 10:45 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I was always pretty indifferant re: Crosby

but now I find myself a huge fan. I'm pulling for him more than anybody these days.

"San Jose A's of Fremont" is already being mocked by Angel's fans

by ArakSOT on Apr 19, 2007 10:49 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It's pretty hard to find a good shortstop.

I think it's worth taking some extra time to see how Crosby will play out.  Obviously he needs to step up his game from his recent level of performance ("recent" being, oh, the last year and a half), but ..I think he can, and I hope he will.

At least he's not batting third anymore.

"There's one word that says it all about baseball--you never know." - Joaquin Andujar

by TheBigO on Apr 19, 2007 11:20 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Who Would Y'all Rather Have?

For the eternal critics of Croz who want a replacement, I Googled and found some Top 10 Fantasy Shortstops for you to speculate on:

  • Miguel Tejada (Baltimore Orioles)
  • Michael Young (Texas Rangers)
  • Derek Jeter (New York Yankees)
  • Rafael Furcal (Los Angeles Dodgers)
  • Jimmy Rollins (Philadelphia Phillies)
  • Jose Reyes (New York Mets)
  • Julio Lugo (Boston Red Sox)
  • Jhonny Peralta (Cleveland Indians)
  • Felipe Lopez (Washington Nationals)
  • Clint Barmes (Colorado Rockies)

and I will add some more:

  • Khalil Greene (San Diego Padres)
  • Royce Clayton (Toronto Blue Jays)
  • Carlos Guillén (Detroit Tigers)
  • Jason Bartlett (Minnesota Twins)
  • Juan Uribe (Chicago White Sox)
  • Orlando Cabrera (Los Angeles Angels)
  • Yuniesky Betancourt (Seattle Mariners)
  • César Izturis (Chicago Cubs)
  • David Eckstein (St. Louis Cardinals)
  • Álex González (Cincinnati Reds)
  • Adam Everett (Houston Astros)
  • Stephen Drew (Arizona Diamondbacks)
  • Omar Vizquel (San Francisco Giants)

Feel free to add to the (incomplete) list above but - Which one of these guys would you want, and how the heck do you plan to get him?  Just curious ..

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 19, 2007 1:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The funny thing is...

with one or two exceptions, almost eyeryone on your list would be an upgrade over Crosby in offense and reliability.

OK, maybe that's not so much funny as sad.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Apr 19, 2007 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But how would you acquire such?

.. that was the point of my post ..

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 19, 2007 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I won't do the whole list

Some are (obviously) nearly impossible to acquire. (Baltimore trade Miggy? Been tried, probably won't happen as long as Angelos breaths.)

Lugo, A. Gonzalez and Clayton could have been had for cash in the offseason.

I suggested Cesar Izturis during the offseason and got jumped on.

Angels would have eagerly traded Cabrera.

Clint Barmes for a minor league power bullpen arm.

Vizquel could be acquired by trading 65 year old twins.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Apr 19, 2007 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Understand but I Can't Help but Think ..

.. any trade for position players will involve giving up some component of our pitching staff .. {i think} the Mets wanted Haren or Harden for Milledge; at the very least they would probably want Blanton + something else {prospect?} ..

.. if the A's do not develop another SS within their system, I doubt any team in MLB is going to let us have an "upgrade" trade at SS without it costing one of our starting pitchers and/or one of our best guys in the pen ..

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 19, 2007 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Depends on the level of upgrade

Obviously guys like Reyes and Rollins, players their teams have identified as being cornerstones, are going to be nearly impossible to acquire. You could get 'em, but it will cost you a steep price.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Apr 19, 2007 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rollins, of course

He's a local.  While I'm at it, why don't we try to get Dontrelle Willis from the Marlins, too.

Problem is, those two guy are never coming to the A's.   I don't see any kind of a sane trade package to get them here..

"it's like an alarm clock, WOOT WOOT!" -Bubb Rubb

by secret ASian man on Apr 19, 2007 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A package centered around Chavez

assuming Eric has a good year, might get it done.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Apr 19, 2007 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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