Harden Update
by Spidz34 on Apr 15, 2007 6:48 PM PDT
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PrintThe A's will re-evaluate their No. 1 starter during Monday's off day, though he doesn't think the injury will keep him out. "It's not too serious," he said. "I'm not concerned." Consider him a big injury risk for the upcoming scoring period. The A's could choose to be very cautious with their young ace.
Source is Cbssports.com
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I hope that it is just a precaution
by 3Chavy3 on Apr 15, 2007 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Seemed like it
Watching it on MLB.TV he seemed to have a smile on his face when Geren and the trainers were out there talking with him. I definitely wouldnt mind them playing it safe, as who knows what it could develop into, but it didn't seem like much when he was up there.
Yeah
He still hit 97 on the gun after visit # 2.
by secret ASian man on Apr 15, 2007 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
when you need that woot woot, it's that WOOT WOOT
ah.... i remember that clip. do people even have whistle tips now?
by ucla kid on Apr 15, 2007 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I think they're pretty much illegal everywhere.
by secret ASian man on Apr 15, 2007 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Didn't he hit like 96 mph
With a bad elbow last year or something like that? Man that kid is ridiculous.
that by itself isn't an indicator
he was throwing that high AFTER he felt the strain on his elbow last June 5 -- which led to missing most of the season.
Buster Olney on Mike & Mike just said...
that Billy went up to Rich after the game and asked if he could make his next start and Rich responded by simply saying "yeah, no problem." So take that for what it's worth.
by SinceIwas7 on Apr 16, 2007 3:58 AM PDT reply actions
I do wish Rich would quit barehanding ..
.. hard hit balls up the middle - let your infield defense field the ball, Rich, we need your talented Arm on the mound .. please please STOP doing that !!! He hurt himself in Texas last year {strained back or something} on a similar play ..
by Randy Bell on Apr 16, 2007 5:35 AM PDT up reply actions
We should let Rich
pitch behind on of those screens they use in batting practice.
Harden
He was "shaking out" his arm/shoulder for the majority of the game. It seemed like his shoulder would never get loose. I'm sure it's going to be even more sore today.
If it is sore, skip a start and let him rest.
This is going to be a concern for the entire year.
He always misses big chunks of the season, too.
hmm...
I see how it works...
Someone should send him a memo to stop shaking his arm out so he can avoid hurting himself.
yeah
was it harden's shoulder last year that kept him on the shelf?
by 3Chavy3 on Apr 16, 2007 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Oblique tore from the bone in April, UCL strain
in June. Its like the ACL of the arm - once that goes you are f**ked. But the April injury was the result of a comebacker that he tried to field and jacked something up just like what seemed to happen yesterday.
by AndreafromNJ on Apr 16, 2007 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Is this an injury that will nag him for a while?
by 3Chavy3 on Apr 16, 2007 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Theory
Anybody notice the rash of injuries by guys that have bulked up significantly from when they first came up? If you look at pictures of Harden when he first came up and when he was dominating in the minors, he was a lot thinner. Now, he's bulky and injury prone. Same with Chavy. Coincidence? Probably not, hardcore weight training in baseball is pretty dumb, especially if you are a pitcher.
totally disagree.
"bulking" that is a result of unnatural means different story but proper weight training plus a cardio regimen is something that is absolutely necessary. Look at Clemens he lifts for 3 hours AFTER a game (roids or no he's not injury prone) What these guys need is a trainer that understands kinesiology. Proper weight training and a cardio regimen so they are not winded after 90 pitches or running from 2nd to home.
by AndreafromNJ on Apr 16, 2007 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Nicely said
I agree
by 3Chavy3 on Apr 16, 2007 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Most of what Clemens does and what Nolan Ryan
did was not centered on bulk. It was all about maintenance and preparing your body to throw every fifth day with minimal breakdown. Lifting for a determined amount of time has nothing to do with your actual routine. Trust me, I've read all the books about baseball weight training for pitchers and I even own the Rocket Arm that Clemens advocates using. I had to deal with shoulder tendonitis for 3 years in high school and I was still able to throw in the low 80's (and that is legit too, I can still hit 81 now, 4 years later, even after all those arm troubles) and maintain my arm in decent shape through rigorous physical training. None of it was centered on anything that would add to the normal bulk of my physique, and in fact, I did not gain any bulk over that period. Tom House is an expert in that field, and I've been to many of his clinics, most of which advocate functional strength, where the emphasis is on total body strength. Bulk is not a desired result as it means there is muscle tightning or hypertrophy, and often means there is an imbalance between muscle strength and tendon/ligament support. There is a lot bad weight training advice out there, especially in baseball, and I wonder if some of the A's aren't taking advice from the wrong sources.
I remember Ryan talking about
how he generated his power and speed from his legs, and was careful not to "throw with his arm" (meaning being properly aligned so as not to overstress his oblique or arm). He also said that he kept his legs strong with horseback riding and ranch work offseason.
regardless of whose weight training
regimen you subscribe to (yours or mine I mean ; ) ) Harden has changed the way he lifts this season - he said as much and if you look at his body this year compared to last it is different. He is much leaner. My point is, however, that any athlete needs to maintain a balance of cardio - where they are not expending so much energy that are impeding their performance but doing it at a consistant rate where they see their endurance increases along with their strength as a result of the better rate of oxygen consumption. Power lifting is not something that I am suggesting a pitcher should be doing but even plyometric workouts and average strength training (while refraining from certain exercises like skull crushers for tri's) should be more than encouraged during and off season. What I think the real point should be is that the trainers (ahem, Larry) are (is) inferior. The stations by me are all suggesting the Cashman is up in arms because the Yankees have so many injuries that coincide with their hiring of a new strength and conditioning coach. If they are willing to pull the trigger (be it actually his fault or not) in 3 months time, shouldn't the A's, who are unquestionably PLAGUED with injury these last few seasons, consider switching it up. Why did Rich have to go see the ANGEL'S Dr. Yocum last year to get a second opinion - shouldn't his on team be able to help him, or better, should a player have enough confidence in his own teams resources?
I'm not arguing against cardio/lifting
I'm just saying that he's been subscribing to the wrong exercises in the past. If he stays healthy this season, I think you can consider his new training to be adequate. But plyometrics are tricky and they are best done in limited quantities (most of the guys I've talked to wouldn't advocate doing it anymore than 1 or 2 times a week just given the stress it puts on your joints). Most of the lifting I've seen done for pitching involves fairly light weights to help prevent scar tissue and muscle tightness and breakdown from forming after throwing. I completely agree with your statements given the importance of a balance of cardio with limited strength training (most of it emphasized on total body strength, not muscle isolation). And I definitely agree with Larry Davis being a horrible trainer. He doesn't seem to be able to maintain conditioning or help our guys heal from injuries very well. Rehab sure is a weak point for the A's. It's time for a change.
With regard to your comment on Harden seeing Yocum, there are generally very few experts (usually 1 or 2) in any field that elite athletes will go to with a particular problem. Dr. Yocum is considered to be the pitching arm expert; as such, it would be foolish of Harden to not go to such a good source of information for a second opinion. Dr. Yocum has operated on many arms that are flourishing in the big leagues after major surgery and offered good advice to others who have been able to avoid surgery and still pitch well. It's not necessarily a team doctor thing, it's more of where the good guys are located (LA sure is a hot spot for any kind of expert physician).
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