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Around SBN: Are The Orioles Bad Or Unlucky With Their Young Pitching?

Beauty and the Beast

Otherwise known as the A's pitching and the A's offense.  Look, I know that we have a bargain bin offense, but the team has basically scored 14 runs in seven games (I'm subtracting the 9-0 whitewashing).  That's a paltry two runs a game.  And yes, I know they've faced some great pitching so far in Hernandez, Lackey, Escobar and Contreras, but they've also faced pitchers like Washburn and Saunders.  And yes, I also know that pitching is almost always way ahead of the hitting at the beginning of the year and hitting heats up as the weather heats up, but it must feel like a wasted effort when our starters go out and pitch well.

It's been frustrating to say the least, especially because the A's have gotten really good pitching so far and from some unexpected sources like Gaudin and Kennedy.

But to be more positive for a second, the A's pitching has better than I'd think it would be.  Marshall showed a few dents tonight, but you don't expect relievers to be perfect every time out and Chicago still has a pretty loaded lineup.

By the way, our two leadoff hitters have hit .156 and .182 out of the gate respectively.  It's not hard to figure out why the team isn't really scoring bushels of runs.  It's a tale as old as time.

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bright side

I'm so happy to see Piazza and Chavez hitting over .300. It was hard watching Frank Thomas take six weeks to warm up last year, not knowing if he ever would. Piazza sounds like (from Ken Korach's descriptions) he has a great approach at the plate and is willing to use the whole field. Chavez has always wanted to hit over .300 (and I've always wanted him to!), and I'd be so happy for him if this could be his year.

"I don't feel like it's about me, I honestly don't...When you're the manager, it's *we* won." ~Bob Geren, 4/4/07

by rich @ Athletics Nation on Apr 9, 2007 10:14 PM PDT reply actions  

Good Pt, - people forget how long it took for ..

.. Frank Thomas to start hitting.  As I've mentioned several times, fans were calling into Buan's extra innings and suggesting we rename him the "Big Popup" ..

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 9, 2007 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

take it with a grain of salt what I'm saying here.  It's just frustrating watching our pitchers pitch so well only to get no run support.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Apr 9, 2007 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I totally agree with your lead-in post, Blez

I'm very frustrated with Kendall in the leadoff spot right now, and I don't believe that Ellis can hit, even if he did have a few nice games last week. Pitchers always tend to be my favorite players, and I can't stand seeing them get the short end of the offense's ineptitude.

For whatever reason, I just wasn't surprised that the A's didn't hit tonight. I got online and opened MLB gameday in the eighth inning and wasn't that fazed by what I saw. So, I was just pleased to see that it wasn't a total disaster and that Chavez and Piazza both had decent (statistical) games.

I didn't mean for my first post to contradict yours. I think you're right on the money.

"I don't feel like it's about me, I honestly don't...When you're the manager, it's *we* won." ~Bob Geren, 4/4/07

by rich @ Athletics Nation on Apr 9, 2007 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Blez,

it's the same old shit, different season.

Jose Reyes is featured on ESPN's MLB page about being a surprise with his bat. When am I gonna see Crosby or Chavez talked about in this manner?

Also, we should know by now that this team takes a while to get itself in gear especially with the new faces year in and year out. So let's not panic just yet.

by sf drift king on Apr 10, 2007 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

Crosby and Chavez are being compared to Reyes now? When will it stop?

Here's why you won't see Chavez and Crosby; Crosby has yet to show he's even a starter in the AL, and Chavez should no longer be considered a top ten 3B in the MLB.

by Pucking Insane on Apr 10, 2007 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought it was

Robert wan

"I Will Not Relent, I Am Driven"... Clutch
Bring Back The Bash!!!

by Shippee33 on Apr 9, 2007 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, he has been looking a bit pallid
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." --Dr. Johnson

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Apr 10, 2007 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I had his name wrong too until recently ..

.. it's Robert Buan ..

Take a look here:
http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/tea...

.. that is the Oakland A's broadcast team ..

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 10, 2007 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wonder how old...

...that Ray Fosse photo is...

What? No Vince photo yet?

Second place in gigglingone's NCAA Tournament bracket contest!

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Apr 10, 2007 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

not only is it frustrating,

but it has to put extra pressure on the pitchers to be perfect while nursing a tight lead or when modestly behind.  the a's pitchers just have a limited margin for error as we've learned thus far this year.

by stm72 on Apr 9, 2007 10:15 PM PDT reply actions  

But if I had my choice between two types ..

Between these types of starts to a season:

  • Decent to good hitting, lousy pitching {starters not lasting, blown saves, pen can't hold a lead, etc}
  • Slow hitting, excellent pitching

I would choose the latter.  The former is a harder problem to correct than the latter.  The mighty Yankees seem like they may have the former problem, I'll take the A's problem right now .. That said, I join all A's fans in mourning for our to-date "MIA Offense" ..

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 9, 2007 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

trust me, i'm not disagreeing

it's just something that i've felt for the past few years.  the starters and the bullpen have been everything we could've asked for and more.

the problem is that the a's are more like to lose 5-2 than win 5-2.  that has to be frustrating for the starters right now.

i guess we're just gonna have to win a ton of 1 run games like we did last year.

by stm72 on Apr 9, 2007 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

emotionally...

I too would want a solid bullpen more than anything else. I hate blowing late inning leads!

"I don't feel like it's about me, I honestly don't...When you're the manager, it's *we* won." ~Bob Geren, 4/4/07

by rich @ Athletics Nation on Apr 9, 2007 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sell out crowd came out to see this crap...
attendance will prolly be back down to 14K tomorrow.
But that is besides the point.
Where the f*** is the power!!!???!!!!???!!! Friggin Podsednik is hittin bombs!!  3-5 with a Team ERA of 2.60?!!! This is ridiculous!
With the Oakland A's, the intravenous drip is always half full!

by OaktownRajah on Apr 9, 2007 10:34 PM PDT reply actions  

Hehe - things even out Oaktown

Remember Chris Shelton of the Tigers?  {i think} he hit something like 9 bombs during the first 10 or 11 games last year.  The media, starved for news early in the season, sang his song.  Guess where he is now?  Playing in the minors (AAA) ..

Friggin Podsednik is hittin bombs!!

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 9, 2007 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

His line doesn't show it but....

I really liked what I saw from Marshall (BTW blame me; I made that same comment just before Podsednik's hit).  Jay's first inning was obviously good: a 1-2-3 effortless inning.  In the eighth, Pods hit the ball to opposite field, a good piece of hitting.  Erstad bunts; I'll take it.  Then Jay faces the heart of the order.  He intentionally walks Konerko, OK, not his decision.  Then he faces Thome looking for the DP ball.  He gets it, it just went a couple feet to Ellis' right.  One run scores; Kiko allows another inherited runner to score on a SF and boom Marshall is charged with two ER with just one good hit against him.  

Also: the one thing I haven't liked so far this season: we're letting the other teams' best hitters kill us.  Vlad's three run shot; Thome's shot; we have to make the Podsedniks of the world beat us (though he did twice today).  We can't let the other team's best hitter  beat us, don't give them good pitches to hit.  Easier said than done of course.  

Last thing: first game in attendance for me tomorrow, WOOT!

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Apr 9, 2007 10:40 PM PDT reply actions  

I just wish...

...that we had a "best" player that kills other teams, like Thome and Guerrero have done to us.

"I don't feel like it's about me, I honestly don't...When you're the manager, it's *we* won." ~Bob Geren, 4/4/07

by rich @ Athletics Nation on Apr 9, 2007 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Piazza dealt the killing blow against the Halos

.. first game of that series .. against K-Rod no less ..

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 9, 2007 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't ever compare

Late Career Piazza to Vlad or Thome.  If you're going to make that analogy, then you'd have to say Kielty is that type of player too.  After all, he too had a killing blow against the Halos against K-Rod.  The closest thing we've had to that in the past 10 years or so was Thomas (aging vet at the end of his run) and Miggy & Giambi just before they hit their respective strides.  And in this line up, that doesn't exist.  Swish could be someyear, but isn't one now.

Jeff of Lookout Landing: "Crosby turns routine play. The Mariners didn't plan on this unforeseen turn of events."

by DMOAS on Apr 9, 2007 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

wasn't intended that way

.. no comparison intended ..

Just stated that at least once, one of our good hitters has hurt {OK i used the word "killed"} the opposition ..

.. I do think Piazza's homer was the winning blow the other nite ..

.. and it was against one of baseball's elite closers ..

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 9, 2007 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

you're right. my mistake

Thank you for making this point politely. My post was foolish.

"I don't feel like it's about me, I honestly don't...When you're the manager, it's *we* won." ~Bob Geren, 4/4/07

by rich @ Athletics Nation on Apr 9, 2007 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

AND - no one has yet gotten any really hard hits

.. of of Marshall .. none that I recall ..

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 9, 2007 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

HR's wherefore art thou?

Seems to me the big reason we are not scoring enough runs is the total lack of HR's (there is also the lack of hitting w/ RISP -- but that we are used to).  

There are 33 players in MLB that have hit as many (or more) HR's then the entire A's team.  The only team that has hit as few HR's as us is the team across the bay.

We are not going to hit more HRs then a team like Chicago (with guys like Thome, Dye, Konerko) but until we start hitting some out of the park and getting some crooked numbers for our starting pitchers we are going to keep losing these close games.

I know it is early, small sample size, etc, but it is frustrating to see the total lack of power.  Here's hoping we can put a few balls in the seats and a few more W's on the board sometime very soon.

by AsFanInLA on Apr 9, 2007 10:50 PM PDT reply actions  

I think that the column to watch this year...
...is not HR, but 2B. The A's are tied for 29th in HRs right now in the MLB, but tied for <b>2nd</b> in doubles. The loss of Thomas is obvious, and the league is now very wary of Swisher, and those two hit 74 of the A's 175 HRs last year.

What sucks right now is a bland .315 team OBP. The A's would be scoring a lot more runs if they can keep hitting their 2Bs with runners on, and right now the first two batters are giving them an OBP of .206 and .182.

by GlassHeart on Apr 10, 2007 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm going to the Wednesday game but

.. sounds like the weather may be bad that day .. to which I say "Shucks", because the ball normally carries much better during the daytime .. and I like you would like to see some Green & Gold bombs!  NOT those ugly black & white sox bombs, don't want none of those {bad grammar intended} ..

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 9, 2007 11:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Is this Piazza's next step?

Hitting some bombs? Who else do we have with power? It is early April, though, and our offense always sucks in the beginning. But you all are right. It's too much pressure on the pitchers to be perfect every game. Or maybe they're that good and the homers will come as well as the offense. Why does MLBTV only have the other teams announcers? I want some pro A's guys so I can leave the sound on! GO A's! Kill the Chisox!

by A'sfansince1970 on Apr 9, 2007 11:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Swisher.

Chavez.

Bradley.

Overhearing one of his teammates mention a "rivalry" with the A's, Washburn snorted and said, "How can it be a rivalry when they beat the crap out of us?"

by Christine on Apr 9, 2007 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

For as good as the starting pitching has been

I was at the game tonight, and I have to say Harden was far from the "Canadian Destroyer" that we know him to be. He was frequently behind in the count, and yea the home plate umpire was totally squeezing the Lower half of the strike zone, Tonight Harden was definatly not on his game. Tonights game felt like the A's had good momentum a few times on offense, they just failed to get the runners in scoring position home. I honestly don't think our offense is nearly as bad as people have been thinking it is, or at least it isnt going to be that bad the whole season. I really see more potential in this years team than the 2006 Athletics on Opening night(...well that night was extra brutal, but none the less...). I do agree with the fact that our 1 and 2 hitters, belong in the 8 and 9 spot right now. I think that we should give Ellis a shot at lead off, he was solid for us down the stretch in 2005, and I personally have a ton more confidence in him than I do Kendall, at least in critical at bats. Anyway I was Rockin section 128 tonight, and im gonna say what's up to anyone who I was talking to or rockin with.

"I Will Not Relent, I Am Driven"... Clutch
Bring Back The Bash!!!

by Shippee33 on Apr 9, 2007 11:29 PM PDT reply actions  

Agreed.

Harden wasn't really himself tonight. He's usually electric, like his first start this season, but he just didn't really have it today. And yet, his off day is still a very good start compared to the rest of the league, which speaks wonders about his potential and ability.

Now, if he can just stay healthy...

by danmerqury on Apr 9, 2007 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll agree here as well

Harden just looked off. At one point he threw five straight pitches in the dirt. I don't think I've ever seen that from him before. Consistently behind in the count, and when he got ahead 0-2, he'd throw three straight bad ones to get behind 3-2. If he can give up only two runs when he's having an off night, I'm going to be so excited to watch him bring his A game. :)

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Apr 9, 2007 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Piazza and the 1 RBI

Of note, Piazza came into tonight's game tied for the MLB lead in hits with 11. His one sole RBI came from the shot against the Angels. As Blez noted, the leadoff "hitters" are not doing anything, so with Piazza's near-dozen hits, nobody was on base to score. You have to find a way to set the table for this guy.

We just got home from the game tonight. It was cold, and I don't just mean the A's offense....

It was great to see Buck get his first RBI, giving the A's a 1-0 lead. He gave a fist pump at 2nd, but that was the highlight of the game. I had just finished telling wifethereof that Pods never homers, only to watch him take Harden deep. Yuck.

More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Apr 9, 2007 11:42 PM PDT reply actions  

I blame you. Jinxer!
"Okay, now I know who drank the rest of my six-pack of Bitchy McSnarky's Snarkalicious Snarkade..." -Poppy

by McFood on Apr 10, 2007 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ozzie Guillen was complaining ..

.. about the alcohol-free clubhouse again .. {g} ..

White Sox skipper Ozzie Guillen was relishing the rare victory in Oakland, though still frustrated with the A's alcohol-free clubhouse that has been dry since last season.

"We never do that," he said after coming out to the clubhouse to hang with his team. "It's weird to win here the first time in 20 years and not have a beer to celebrate. ... Jose definitely needed one like this."

(link)

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 10, 2007 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Stranded baseruners

Hits only seemed to come with two outs.  Seven were left on base. Frustrating and you are right, very cold.

by EgolikeRickey on Apr 9, 2007 11:48 PM PDT reply actions  

Hella cold

and the Warriors game was going on at the same time, So  Bart got crazy there for a bit. I know I was drunk and kickin ass on the Train ride back to the V town (well as close to Vallejo as it goes)

"I Will Not Relent, I Am Driven"... Clutch
Bring Back The Bash!!!

by Shippee33 on Apr 10, 2007 12:16 AM PDT reply actions  

Observations from todays game:

I love Travis Buck.

We all think we're much smarter than we really are...- Huston Street

by iloveoakland on Apr 10, 2007 12:42 AM PDT reply actions  

worried a bit about TBuck

He had a nice hit, but I think he's got 11 Ks in like 20 ABs so far?  Striking out at an alarming rate I think

Hi, I am closetasfan, and I am a NRAF, and an ANA

by closetasfan on Apr 10, 2007 6:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

No doubt he is internally thinking ..

MAN, the pitching up here is nothing like in ST or AA

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 10, 2007 6:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

not worried about him

he' a rookie who only played a season in A ball and half a season in AA. He will adjust. The real issue begins after pitchers adjust to him....and how long he takes to adjust back.

by OaklandSi on Apr 10, 2007 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Does anyone else think that Harden...

gets a little too amped up? He was all over the place, its just that nobody could hit it. He always seems to falter in big games. I'm sure that something like this had to factor into Haren being the Number 1. Makes me feel better that Danny pitched Game 3 last year instead of Harden.

I was soo glad that the the reason he was pitching soo  un-Harden like wasn't due to an injury.

I also blame Billy Beane. He was on KNBR before the game and he gloated about Harden and his "no-hit" stuff. Nice job, Billy! Every time someone on the A's goes on KNBR, something bad happens. Like Zito before Game 1 of the ALCS...

KNBR ignores the A's so why don't the A's ignore them. Stick to the Marty Lurie Radio Network!

With the Oakland A's, the intravenous drip is always half full!

by OaktownRajah on Apr 10, 2007 1:48 AM PDT reply actions  

The A's are leading the AL in hits right now

Seriously, nobody's doing better than the A's 68 hits, go check it out. They're fifth in total bases, but really suck in slugging and OBP, at 11th place.

Lots of guys are getting hits, but they're not getting enough walks and aren't hitting at the right time. So that's the problem, they're not playing A's baseball.

The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Apr 10, 2007 2:51 AM PDT reply actions  

Even the "lesser" pitchers have pitched well

While everyone recognizes King Felix Hernandez, John Lackey, Kelvim Escobar, and Jose Contreras as being good pitchers -- and those guys did pitch very well against us -- it is also true that Jarrod Washburn, and yes Dustin Moseley and Joe Saunders pitched well.  Except for Miguel Batista in Seattle {whom we hit hard and beat 9-0} -- none of said pitchers have had a "bad outing" nor "bad control".

Does that sound like making excuses for the A's lack of offense?  Yes and no.  You mentioned the lack of walks.  {I think} that is because all the opposing pitchers have had good control thus far and not given us walks.  I remember, I think it was Scoscia and Lackey commenting after a game in Oakland last yr, that the way to beat the A's is to throw quality strikes and force them to put the ball in play.  Scoscia in particular recognizes the A's tendencies.  No doubt that is probably one of the scouting reports on our team, that we like to be patient and make the opposing pitchers work.

We've had our chances but last nite they all came with two outs.  It is hard to have two-out rallies.  Not impossible, but hard, because you have less room for error.  The biggest problem remains the RISP hitting, and I'm thinking these possibilities:

  • the A's just suck at RISP hitting and nothing can do about that.
  • the A's are just not a good offensive team, period.
  • the A's always start slow {offensively}, we just gotta be patient as fans, they will come around, especially as the weather warms up.
  • there is a random element of "luck" to RISP hitting and the A's have had little success but it will even itself out.

I suspect it is a combo of the last two above: the A's inevitable slow starts out of the gate, and the fact that {with exception of the 9-0 pounding of Batista} they have yet to "break out".  Point#2 above also holds some truth:  the A's are not Cleveland, Chicago, New York, Boston -- we don't have a bunch of big boppers and aren't going to score a ton of runs .. But I still like the fact that, even with Loaiza hurt and out of the rotation right now, our pitching has held its own, and the bullpen has been outstanding.  Cupcakes got his first 'W' against the Halos, that was a plus.

Getting back to my first post in this thread, I still like our problem compared to what seems to be the mighty yankees' problem -- the yanks' pitching looks really weak, and even with that all-star lineup, over a long long season that is a recipe for not making the playoffs after 60 million years, hehe - now, no doubt they will spend 100 gazillion dollars by July and rectify their deficiencies, I could care less about the yankees - but still would rather have the problem we have right now, of a slow starting offense but {so far} excellent pitching.

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 10, 2007 6:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

This IS A's baseball,

sorry to say. The A's haven't had a high OBP offense in years. 11th in OBP and 11th in SLG is about par for the course I think. Maybe last year got a little better, I might check later if I have time.

by matthias on Apr 10, 2007 7:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

You're Right, may be trying to "fine tune" ..

.. a machine that just doesn't work well even at optimal efficiency ..

One consolation is that the AL West is weak, I mean, even Texas' offense is worse than last year, and the Angels look like they are as weak offensively as we are, in fact I still think we may have a more balanced lineup but that is another discussion already done recently ..

My point is we can take some small consolation in that we play in a weak division.  I have said it several times but I am glad we don't play in the AL-Central or even the AL-East, but especially the Central.

When we play teams like Chicago or Cleveland, we get reminded of what playing in a "power division" with power offense would be like .. thankfully we play the unbalanced schedule of the West ..

Once you make the playoffs, pitching and defense can compensate, but I'm not so sure over the long regular season playing in a power division that that would hold true as much ..

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 10, 2007 7:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Leading in hits

That's mainly because the A's are the only AL team to have played 8 games. Only 4 other teams have even played 7 games, 7 have played 6, and Cleveland and Seattle have only played 3.

Partly for the same reason, we have 6 of the top 13 players in the league in outs made, with Kendall and Stewart tied for the league with 27 apiece.

In the stands the home crowd scatters For the turnstiles

by andeux on Apr 10, 2007 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Mychael Urban had a nice writeup of last nite's

.. game .. Bats cold against Sox in home opener

Asked about his club's somnambulant sticks, Geren preached patience, saying it generally takes an offense a month or so to define itself. He also noted that in at least three of the five games in which the A's have scored two runs or fewer, they've faced exceptional pitching: Opening Day in Seattle (Felix Hernandez), Saturday in Anaheim {John Lackey) and Monday.

"You'd like to get more runs, but I wouldn't say it's a concern," Geren said. "I'm sure we'll score a lot more than two runs a game on average."

Added Ellis: "I think we'll be just fine."

Patience, patience, patience -- let's hope Ellis is right! :)

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 10, 2007 6:39 AM PDT reply actions  

The A's will probably hit more than 40 HRs

for the season, which is what they're on pace to achieve. Meanwhile, the pitchers probably WILL end the season with a 2.60 team ERA, because I want them to.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 10, 2007 8:24 AM PDT reply actions  

patience whatever

can someone please tool with the lineup to get some hot bats in the one-two spots.

by riverchat on Apr 10, 2007 8:31 AM PDT reply actions  

I completely agree

The rest of the guys arent doing that bad cahvy is hitting over 300 piazza is going off Kendall on the other hand not doing so well this is really where the A's miss Kotsay.

www.GamingDomination.com

by 3Chavy3 on Apr 10, 2007 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree

Also, have you noticed Swisher is getting absolutely nothing to hit this year. He's already been walked 9 times which is on pace to put up a Bonds like total. The problem is, who do you bat leadoff? Kendall sucks, but there aren't many viable alternatives. I would go

2B M. Ellis (Not ideal, but better than Kendall)
1B N. Swisher (Take advantage of that OBP and make people pay for walking him)
CF M. Bradley
DH M. Piazza
3B E. Chavez
SS B. Crosby (At least has some power potential. I haven't given up on him just yet.)
RF T. Buck
LF S. Stewart
C  J. Kendall (by far the worst hitter on the team. If I see him ground out to9 second or short to lead off a game again, I'm gonna shoot someone.)

"May our feet be swift. May our bats be mighty. And may our balls be...plentiful."

by nothinlikethetown on Apr 10, 2007 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

swisher BB

I think you hit the nail on the head with your argument for batting Swisher second. With the current lineup, he is getting walked and then we have to cross our fingers and hope that Crosby-Buck-Ellis-Kendall-Stewart will get him home. I'm not trying to put those players down, but it seems obvious that Bradley-Piazza-Chavez are going to do a better job of driving in runs.

by colin on Apr 10, 2007 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

it's never too early for a lineup change

Especially when the lineup wasn't right to begin with.  I don't mind keeping Kendall at leadoff because we know what he's done there.  Stewart, however, should have never been hitting out of the 2 hole.  That's a job that is ideally left for Swisher.  Imagine him getting on base IN FRONT of Piazza this past week.

Also, we have Todd Walker.  Why not use him?  In his one start this year, he stung the ball pretty well a couple of times and his D didn't hurt us.  Furthermore, he's had an OBP above .350 in 5 of the past 6 seasons.  Start him in place of Stewart (since Buck has to play everyday otherwise it's pointless for him to be here) and then bench Buck and Walker vs lefties and start Stewart and Kielty.

I'd like to see a lineup like this drawn up sometime soon.  

vs Righties
Walker, 1B
Swisher, LF/RF
Bradley, CF
Piazza, DH
Chavez, 3B
Crosby, SS
Ellis, 2B
Buck, LF/RF
Kendall, C

vs Lefties
Kendall, C
Swisher, 1B
Bradley, CF
Piazza, DH
Chavez, 3B
Kielty, LF/RF
Crosby, SS
Ellis, 2B
Stewart, LF/RF

Why not?

by fadedash on Apr 10, 2007 10:10 AM PDT reply actions  

Exactly

they only thing I dont like is walker leading off, he cant do any worse though so why not give it a try.  I would like to see Ellis lead off myself and have kendall in ninth

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by 3Chavy3 on Apr 10, 2007 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is my pref. as well

I'd give Ellis some lead off time.

"hunting for fresh meat"

by Masaryk on Apr 10, 2007 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

i don't want stewart fulltime

playing offense or defense

by fadedash on Apr 10, 2007 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

who will play better
Kielty? I would rather see Stewart there
Go A's!!!! www.GamingDomination.com

by 3Chavy3 on Apr 12, 2007 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was actually thinking that exact lineup might

be nice to shake things up.  I would probably flip Swisher and Bradley but I really like the idea of Walker and his good OBP at the top of the order.  At least get him some at bats and see what happens -- lets just shake it up and see if someone gets hot.

Not looking for wholesale changes this early on, but why not mix in Walker a bit with the top of our order struggling so badly?

by AsFanInLA on Apr 10, 2007 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah. with a closer look, it looks even better

Over the last 3 seasons,

Todd Walker vs RHP: .289/.351/.451
Bobby Kielty vs LHP: .303/.367/.519

I think it's safe to say that platoon would be more productive than whatever it is Stewart does this year.  

by fadedash on Apr 10, 2007 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Alternate lineup

Bobby Crosby, bless his fragile little heart, is a natural lead-off man, especially given his improved hitting approach this year. He can steal bases and hit with some authority (especially compared to Kendall)

I don't think Piazza is a clean-up hitter at this stage of his career. He's got good plate discipline and rarely strikes out so I'd actually bat him second.

The A's natural clean-up man is Swish, because he hit 35 home runs last year and he's wasted anywhere else. I'd surround him with Chavez and Milton, in no particular order.

Travis Buck/Bobby Kielty platooned should bat 6th, and that brings us to 7-8-9. These slots go in order of BA in my book.

Re: the Walker/Stewart controversy, these guys are both career .300 hitters, so pick 'em. Stewart has defensive skill, so that's why he gets more starts.

The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Apr 10, 2007 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

leadoff rather than 3rd

When Crosby was batting third last year, it seemed to exacerbate his swing-for-the-fences mindset. Maybe sticking him in the leadoff spot would go a long way towards convincing him to hit the other way and pick up singles/doubles. But to be honest, I'd never have the guts to make that decision because I'd be terrified that he might continue to but up OBPs around .300.

by colin on Apr 10, 2007 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

OR he would break a bone trying to steal or ..

.. trying to beat out an infield single .. but I suppose poor Bobby can injure himself no matter where the A's stick him in the lineup .. {helpless grin} .. still hoping for him to turn it around this year ..

But to be honest, I'd never have the guts to make that decision because I'd be terrified that he might continue to put up OBPs around .300.

Btw those folks who wanted our 3rd-base coach to send Bobby on that scoring play - with A.J. at the plate, given his propensities, do we really want to do that especially this early in the season?  Heh ..

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 10, 2007 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey

At least no one is hitting O for DJ.  That's a good thing.

I just want a .500 April - Get everyone's feet wet.  Stay healthy.  That's not asking much.

by Colorado Fan on Apr 10, 2007 10:53 AM PDT reply actions  

Marshall's pitching

that run-scoring pitch -- if only a few feet to the right or left -- would have probablly produced an inning-ending double play.

by OaklandSi on Apr 10, 2007 12:14 PM PDT reply actions  

It seems to me

that every team struggles with RISP. At least, fans of every team complain about their hitting with RISP. And, IMO, no scoring oportunity with two outs is ever "terrific".

"San Jose A's of Fremont" is already being mocked by Angel's fans

by ArakSOT on Apr 10, 2007 12:32 PM PDT reply actions  

That's Because it always looks juicy ..

To a fan, it looks easy:

.. ducks on a pond, man on 2nd and 3rd, no outs {or only one out} ..

.. OMG ellis struck out, swisher lined out to left, inning over, .. these turkeys just cannot drive in those runs !!!

Fact is, fans forget that the opposing pitcher (and defense behind him} views it differently, - instead of a "juicy opportunity" for our offense to score, to him it is a "threat" ..

He is thinking - if ellis beats me, it will be on a pitcher's pitch, my splitter diving down on the outside corner; I will keep swisher off-balance because he has power; etc.

Opposing defense has all the "scout sheets" about who hits where; opposing coaches and manager makes sure they line up optimal defense; etc.

.. Of course I never played major league baseball but I have no doubt it's a lot harder than it looks to a fan .. to a fan it looks like we can easily get those runs in, to a player, NOT ..

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 10, 2007 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

My worries vs. batting averages

My worries about the team this time of year are a lot like batting averages this time of year.  

One or two good things, and I'm dreaming of 100+ wins and World Series rings.  A couple of things go wrong and I'm quitting the fan base and joining the foreign legion.

With that said; after the base running, hitting and defensive performances I've seen recently, I'm looking for the recruiting office...  ;^)

by NotJohnnyDamon on Apr 10, 2007 12:49 PM PDT reply actions  

1st Pitch Strikes

Has anyone noticed that the majority of our hitters are starting of 0-1, aka, behind in the count ... the scouts know that we're not swinging at 1st pitches, especially now that Kotsay & Payton are gone.

Batting Averages slip considerably when you fall behind in the count.  Opposing pitchers have been doing a great job of doing this vs. the A's (This is not fact:  Just from what I've seen so far)

Two Strikes on Batter:  .141 Average
Less Than Two Strikes on Batter:  .313 Average

Guys need to start noticing that pitchers are GROOVING 1st pitches down the PIPE.  It might be the best pitch to hit, so why not take your shot?!?!

by Colorado Fan on Apr 10, 2007 1:16 PM PDT reply actions  

Damned if you do, damned if you don't

I agree with being aggressive on a first pitch if it is a juicy one.  Van Burkleo (sp?) the A's new hitting coach said the same thing when interviewed by Fosse on pregame .. but .. I noticed in yesterday's open-game thread, some were criticizing Nick Swisher for swinging at a 2-0 count and lining out to left with RISP {i think it was, runners at 2nd and 3rd}.  BUT, if he had ripped a double in the gap, scoring both runs, there would have been no criticism - I can just see fans commenting, "MAN he got his pitch and didn't miss!"  I'm of the notion that it isn't easy to hit at the MLB level, it isn't easy to succeed, and as Macha always said, it isn't easy to win a major league game {no matter what you do or don't do}.  Maybe today will be different, although Garland when "on" is no picnic either.  The Sox traded Garcia but they still have some pretty good starting pitching.

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 10, 2007 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

sort of

In Swisher's situation the bases were loaded and the pitcher had just walked 2 guys, you want to make the pitcher work then.  In a lot of other situations it would make sense to occasionally swing at the first pitch to keep the pitcher on his toes so he doesn't always start up in the count.

by dbuzi123 on Apr 10, 2007 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not worried about Stewart's hitting

Not only does he have credentials, but he has made a lot of hard outs--liner to third, liner to left, etc. I don't agree with leading off Ellis against RHP; I think Kendall/Stewart is the best you're going to get in terms of OBP and subsequent speed around the bases.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 10, 2007 2:22 PM PDT reply actions  

walker has credentials

not a good bet for better OBP and OPS than stewart?

by fadedash on Apr 10, 2007 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Considering Stewart has the better

career batting average and OBP, and that the two have the same career slugging pct, I'd say Stewart's the better bet. However, given their fairly similar lifetime batting averages, their identical lifetime slugging pct, and their ability to butcher their defensive positions, I'd say they'd make a heck of a platoon.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 10, 2007 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

in that case, though,

wouldn't a Walker/Kielty platoon be even better than a Walker/Stewart platoon?

I don't even want to see Walker play that much, but I definitely think he should be in the regular rotation of things and should get as many ABs as Stewart gets.  

by fadedash on Apr 10, 2007 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Chavez needs to step it up...

Over the first 8 games of the season, Eric Chavez absolutely stinks when runners are in scoring position.  He's like 0-for-7.

by cmykrgb on Apr 10, 2007 4:27 PM PDT reply actions  

The guy's hitting over .300

with a 6-game hitting streak; cut him a break! He's relatively low on my list of "complaints".

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 10, 2007 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

But 0.000 when it counts!

No matter what his stats show throughout the seasons, we can't seem to count on him like we did with Tejada or Giambi.  All I am saying that when there's a man on 2nd and Chavez is up, it would be nice to feel some kind of confidence that he'll pull through.

by cmykrgb on Apr 10, 2007 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

1-for-8

I would like to see him leadoff, as posted below.

by MrIncognito on Apr 10, 2007 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I kind of agree.

When watching the Angels series, he consistently hit a single or double when he was either a leadoff hitter, or there was a runner only on first.  It's just too bad that nobody behind his did anything.  If only Piazza his behind him...

by cmykrgb on Apr 10, 2007 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hmm...After today's 14-3 drubbing

at the hands of the Red Sox, I imagine the Mariners are thinking, "You know, snow's not really that bad." Or maybe they're thinking, "Jeff Weaver really sucks," as he gave up 7 ER in 2 IP in his glorious return to the AL West.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 10, 2007 5:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Go to Lookout Landing and read

Jeff's commentary.  Pretty darn funny!

Looks like the "Jose Vidro" thing is not working too well for the Marinators.  Bavasi gone by July 31??

"- J. Duchscherer relieved J. Duchscherer" per Yahoo! Sports Box Score

by One won lost won on Apr 10, 2007 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lineups...

I like this:

Chavez
Bradley
Swish
Piazza
Kielty
Stewart
Ellis
Crosby
Kendall

Buck should be in AA. .238/.304/.381 with 11 Ks in 21 ABs screams "not ready." We just need to convince Kielty he's not a switch hitter and call up Perez to back up the OF.

Chavez has always been good at getting on base. His power has disappeared the last couple years, so there's really no point in putting him in the 4th spot.

by MrIncognito on Apr 10, 2007 5:45 PM PDT reply actions  

Buck looks okay

Even with the strikeouts.

I don't think they expect him to not get a lot of strikeouts early on.  He's never faced ML pitching, and this is one month.

Look at Miggy the first three years.  Each of those years screamed "not ready".

"- J. Duchscherer relieved J. Duchscherer" per Yahoo! Sports Box Score

by One won lost won on Apr 10, 2007 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

The difference is...

We aren't desperate for someone to fill in at SS.

If we had delayed Miggy's arrival in the league for a year or two, we would have had a lot more value out of him before he became a FA.

We have a few guys who can post a .650 OPS and play OF.

by MrIncognito on Apr 10, 2007 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

also...

I know it's early, but Miguel still struck out a LOT less than Buck does.

by MrIncognito on Apr 10, 2007 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Patience: Buck has a sweet swing

Give him a couple months before writing him off ..

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 10, 2007 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

no I really like Buck

If Buck stays in the majors this year, we'll control him through his age 28 season. If we give him a year in AAA, we'll have his age 29 season. That's likely to give us much better value.

by MrIncognito on Apr 10, 2007 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

No one's writing him off (long term)

but he clearly still has a lot of learning to do. Some of that learning will have to come against major league pitching (Crosby and Swisher both struck out a ton as rookies even after a full year of beating up AAA pitching) but Buck could probably still benefit from a couple of months at Sacramento.

In the stands the home crowd scatters For the turnstiles

by andeux on Apr 10, 2007 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Another way to look at it is,

what does it matter how Buck gets out when he gets out? Right now, he's "feast or famine," but it's not like he's hitting .125 with a ton of strikeouts. He'll figure it out, as long as he's given the chance.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 10, 2007 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

It doesn't

except insofar as it's really, really, really hard to maintain a high (or even decent) batting average when you're whiffing half the time. Buck doesn't have enough power to try to be Adam Dunn.

In the stands the home crowd scatters For the turnstiles

by andeux on Apr 10, 2007 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

it doesn't matter what he's hitting right now

Take away two of his hits and he's hitting below .125.  

If a couple more of those outs find holes instead, he's hitting .333.  

His average after 21 ABs doesn't mean jack.  11 K's and 2 BB's have bigger meaning in my opinion, even if it is just by a little bit.  

by fadedash on Apr 10, 2007 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

"sweet swing"

It might look good aesthetically, but how much does that matter?  Carlos Pena and Ben Grieve had sweet looking swings also, IIRC.  On the flip side, Swisher looks foolish with plenty of his swings.  

Guys like Kevin Martin, Shawn Marion, and Michael Redd have unorthodox shooting motions but their shots are as sweet as any.  Likening a baseball swing to a shooter's motion probably isn't fair, but I think you get what I'm saying.  

I'm not writing Buck off nor am I saying he's a bad player, but it's not the look of his swing that has me thinking he'll be fine (if that is what you're saying).  

by fadedash on Apr 10, 2007 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

What I like, personally,

is his patience and his willingness to hit to all fields. Good signs, both.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 10, 2007 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

i like his all field spraying

and i would like to say i like his patience, but not when it leads to numerous strike-3-lookings.

hopefully it's just an adjustment period, like you said, which i'm sure it is, but patience is no longer a virtue if opt to admire ones down the middle.

by fadedash on Apr 10, 2007 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nah, I think he has satisfied this concern

by chasing several bad balls up around his eyes.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 10, 2007 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

fade i was thinking "sweet" a la ..

.. Ken Griffey jr. -- hehehe - I can dream anyways! :)

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 10, 2007 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

In principle I agree

But now is not the time to send Buck to AAA. His struggles now will make him better in the long run. Anyone you brought up from AAA now would likely do no better than Buck, the difference is any replacement is as good as they're going to get and will forever suck. (Yes, I'm looking at 2 Buck Chuck.)

When Kotsay comes back, and assuming that all the other OFers are healthy, then it would be time to send Buck down. He spends a few weeks in the minors and the A's will get to keep him an extra year.

Insert new, original, thought provoking sig line (...HERE...)

by grover on Apr 10, 2007 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Remember, too, that the only reason

Buck made the jump to the bigs in April was because of injuries to Kotsay AND Johnson. It's not like the A's were quick to make the decision for him to "learn on the job". Now that he's here so soon out of necessity, make lemonade out of lemons and let him become a big league contributor by June of this year. That means being sanguine about the strikeouts while enjoying the RBI doubles.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 10, 2007 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nico - I couldn't have said it better

thanks!  Also guys, Buck has doubled hard off of quality pitchers:

  • K-Rod
  • King Felix
  • Contreras

I mean, when he connects, he hits the ball hard to the wall.  I think this kid can hit in the MLB, give him time.  When it comes time to send him back down to AAA, I'm sure the A's will do just that! :)

.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 10, 2007 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

It obviously takes skill to hit those guys

but playing devil's advocate, you could say that he's hitting the ball hard to the wall not inspite of those pitchers, but thanks to those pitchers.

i.e., podsednik hitting a HR off rich harden.  who do you think supplied more of the power in that situation?  definitely not podsy.  

Buck probably doesn't belong here right now, but he's showing signs that he will belong here.  Hopefully he makes the most of his time here and can shown small signs of improvement (mainly with the BB/K ratio).  As long as his playing time isn't impeding his development, which I see no reason it should, I don't mind letting him start as much as possible until DJ comes back.  

by fadedash on Apr 10, 2007 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

agreed, good pts / nt
.. the Athletics may be small-market but they have BIG-heart! ..

by Randy Bell on Apr 10, 2007 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

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