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Around SBN: My First Fight: Diego Sanchez

Bye Bye, Kotsay

Back surgery and likely three months missed.

Milton Bradley should be the A's centerfielder--this is just me talking--with Swisher and some combination of other bodies filling the remaining two spots. Of all the A's likely injured--Harden, Chavez, Crosby, Bradley--Kotsay is, for me, easily the most acceptable. But the key is that Bradley remain healthy.

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Bradley, Stewart, Goleski, Swisher

We've got lots of bodies out there. When Kielty returns (which will be before Kots), that gives us another option.

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Mar 7, 2007 7:54 PM PST reply actions  

Rotoworld says this

Mark Kotsay will have surgery to repair a herniated disk in his back and is expected to miss at least eight-to-12 weeks.
This is something Kotsay could have gotten done back in November had he been more aggressive about it, and considering that the A's are paying him $15 million over the next two years, they deserve better from the center fielder. Don't count on seeing Kotsay back before June, and it wouldn't come as much of a surprise to see him miss the entire first half. The A's will likely go with Milton Bradley in center field, Nick Swisher in right, Shannon Stewart in left and Dan Johnson at first base. Bobby Kielty will take over as the fourth outfielder once he's recovered from knee surgery. This would also seem to open the door for Rule 5 pick Ryan Goleski to make the team.

by Zonis on Mar 7, 2007 7:59 PM PST reply actions  

25 Man Roster Projection w/Kotsay out

C1 Kendall
1B Johnson
2B Ellis
3B Chavez
SS Crosby
LF Stewart
CF Bradley
RF Swisher
DH Piazza

C2 Melhuse
SS Scutaro
OF Kielty
OF Goleski

SP Harden
SP Haren
SP Loaiza
SP Blanton
SP Kennedy

RP Street
RP Duchscherer
RP Calero
RP Gaudin
RP Embree
RP Witasick
RP Halsey

by Zonis on Mar 7, 2007 8:01 PM PST reply actions  

Drop Halsey to AAA, add in Perez.

That bench is way too thin.

It's a shame that families get torn apart by something as simple as wild dogs. -Jack Handey

by JediLeroy on Mar 7, 2007 8:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Perez

Melhuse could probably do just as good of a job of backing up 3B, and with Halsey you have a long reliever.

Other kids may be sayin' hi-ho, but The Gooch just says yo.

by whobob on Mar 7, 2007 9:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Please stay healthy Milton

A healthy Bradley and a DLed Kotsay actually makes me feel better about our chances.  It is scary that we are one step closer to Two-Buck as our CF, however.  I just don't think Swisher could handle more than 5-10 games in CF.

I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Mar 7, 2007 8:03 PM PST reply actions  

I think Bocachica

and even Ledee would get the call before Thomas.

by mikeA on Mar 7, 2007 8:12 PM PST up reply actions  

The Three Stooges

Wow, can't really get excited about any of those guys if it comes to that.

I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Mar 7, 2007 8:14 PM PST up reply actions  

This probably helps if

the outfield stays healthy, but.....

by mikeA on Mar 7, 2007 8:05 PM PST reply actions  

damn you kotsay
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Mar 7, 2007 8:10 PM PST reply actions  

Travis Buck

What are the chances Travis Buck could head north when camp breaks?

We can be considered David, David knocks out Goliath. -Eric Chavez PT-42

by norcaldevilasu on Mar 7, 2007 8:13 PM PST reply actions  

With No Kielty

Until May 1st or so, someone is going to temporarily get a spot.  Would the A's want Buck to spend a month as a 4th/5th starter before starting AAA?  No idea, but I wouldn't mind him being on the team.

I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Mar 7, 2007 8:17 PM PST up reply actions  

I would think not very good,
but the chances of seeing him before Kotsay? That could happen if Buck tears it up in the minors in April and May.

And someone up there is sure looking out for Dan Johnson, eh? His roster spot is suddenly looking awfully safe.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 7, 2007 8:20 PM PST up reply actions  

i don't see how this helps

what would help would be kotsay staying healthy, performing well and earning his money instead of injuring himself and having surgery before plays a single baseball game.

not only do bradley and stewart have to stay healthy, DJ has to figure out how to hit major league pitching.  if all those things don't happen this team is in trouble.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Mar 7, 2007 8:22 PM PST reply actions  

It only helps if Bradley is healthy

Because Stewart and Johnson can outhit a gimpy Kotsay, and Kotsay was rapidly declining on defense as well.  If Bradley does not stay healthy, things could get ugly quickly.  Even the crappy version of Johnson is likely to outhit Kotsay.

I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Mar 7, 2007 8:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Get up, horse, I want to flog you

Kotsay's back troubles obviously can't be blamed on the Larry Davis/Gerry Goldman axis of owies.  But surely they're expected to monitor a chronic condition like that regularly, at least through October, if not the off-season.  I have to wonder if they had any sense at all that his back was getting worse, and if so, whither the usual encouragement for players to get probs dealt with early in the offseason?

And if in fact the team did know, and did encourage a more prompt response, what does that say about the ability of the team and its med staff to get their players to listen to them?  Or for that matter, what's it say about the of-late seemingly not such a team guy Mr. Kotsay?

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." --Dr. Johnson

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Mar 7, 2007 8:25 PM PST reply actions  

I have mixed feelings on this one
On one hand, here we're dealing with an injury that predates the A's training staff and was a known risk all along. On the other hand, it's only March 7th and already we're seeing evidence of "bad luck" with injuries not one, not two, but three years in a row. At what point does it walk, talk, and yield paté like a duck to where management is spending so much energy denying it's duck that you wonder why they need to.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 7, 2007 8:32 PM PST up reply actions  

No way A's med staff takes the fall.

During the offseason, the player is responsible for his health.  Most players don't consult the team doctors during the offseason and the trainers can't make them do so anyway.  This one is all on Kotsay.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Mar 7, 2007 8:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree. If only it were
the only blip. But it's still the first week of March and...Here we go again? Who knows exactly how "blame" can "best" be portioned out. You just want, maybe, one year out of three not to go like this.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 7, 2007 8:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Bad back not Larry's fault, of course

But if the "coulda been done in November" report is true, it's not a stretch to think the A's docs might've and should've have known something was up at ALCS time.  So the med staff is either fairly clueless about the status of a known chronic condition, or is trusted so little by this player (at least) that communication has broken down.  So no, I don't pin this on Larry and Gerry, but I do think it's legit to wonder if a well-functioning team/player medical relationship might've handled things better for all parties.

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." --Dr. Johnson

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Mar 7, 2007 11:09 PM PST up reply actions  

<sigh>

This is why I was pushing for trading Kotsay during the offseason. Even if it meant eating a large chunk of his salary, dumping Kots during the winter would have been a good thing. Now we're left hoping the oft-injured Bradley can play CF.

Insert new, original, thought provoking sig line (...HERE...)

by grover on Mar 7, 2007 8:27 PM PST reply actions  

My apologies for the multiple posts

Seems me old Sig was too complex for the new design.

Ah... progress!

Insert new, original, thought provoking sig line (...HERE...)

by grover on Mar 7, 2007 8:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I used my powers for good
and deleted the second comment. I figure if I see two of the same thing it can't be a problem to delete one. Identical twins: you might want to hide from me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 7, 2007 8:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Start with the Olsen twins

Do we really two of them?

I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Mar 7, 2007 8:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Do we even need one?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 7, 2007 8:38 PM PST up reply actions  

point noted

Thanks Nico, I'll tell my sister not to come down for Chez Nico this year.  (Though if you do see us both, she's younger and thus less important...)  ;)

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Mar 7, 2007 9:08 PM PST up reply actions  

If your sister isn't coming,
what are we going to barbecue? Dang it, and I had a hankering for some identical twin.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 7, 2007 9:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree with grover's first post

but not his second.

Actually, web tech folk, when this page first loaded for me g's sigline had its old purple font.  Now it doesn't.  I mention this b/c the other multipost oddity I saw recently was a shippee post...who also uses a colored font sig line.

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." --Dr. Johnson

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Mar 7, 2007 8:31 PM PST up reply actions  

the prophecies of nostradamus!

Actually, it is well-known that Nostradamus wrote extensively about the Oakland A's.

For instance:

Volcanic fire from the center of the earth
will cause trembling around the new city:
Two great rocks will make war for a long time.
Then Arethusa will redden a new river. (C1Q87)

This clearly refers to Kotsay (center of the earth) having bloody, painful surgery (volcanic fire) which caused great distress (trembling) around the East Bay (the new city).  He further goes on to prophecize that the A's and Angels (two great rocks) will be rivals for a long time until Ron Washington (Arethusa) will go to the Red River area (near Arlington, hence the Rangers).

That guy knew his stuff.

He further writes:

The sterile synagogue without any fruit,
will be received by the infidels,
the daughter of the persecuted (man) of Babylon,
miserable and sad, they will clip her wings. (C8Q96)

meaning, that AN (synagogue) without Apricot's regular posting (fruit) will become popular with a wide new audience (infidels) and that either Jennifer or Sharon (hard to tell which) will get bummed out and lose their internet access.  Sad, really.

by Apricot on Mar 8, 2007 8:37 AM PST up reply actions  

<CGV>
<censored>
<attempt at humor to mask despair>
<CGV>
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 7, 2007 8:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Somewhere

FoolshGame22 is smiling.  Or preparing a diary explaining why we should trade for Byrnes.  

I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Mar 7, 2007 8:44 PM PST reply actions  

I've shown remarkable restraint...

have I not?  ;-)  For all the pounding I took from smug ANer's when I suggested dumping Kotsay in 2005, they all know I've been proven correct in my assessment.  So, there is really no longer any joy in rubbing it in.  Yes, Kotsay probably won't play the first half of this year (if at all) and the A's will pay him $7 million.  Yes, Byrnes played a better defensive centerfield by every defensive metric last year.  Yes, Byrnes will hit another 25 or 26 homers and steal another 25 bases this year at only $4.5 million, but, hey, Kotsay's grit and leadership is worth something, no?

"When I got injured, I felt disrespected. Waaannnh!" - Mark Kotsay

by FoolshGame22 on Mar 8, 2007 8:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Right there with you bro...

what I really want to know is what Beane was offered back at the trading deadline for Kotsay?  I know the Yankees were desperate for a CF at the time and we said to be offering Wang or Cano but that Beane was holding out for both.  I could have lived keeping Kotsay for the playoff push in 2005 (which ended up failing) but signing him to that extension, given his creaky back, was probably the dumbest move Beane has made - yes, even dumber than signing Rhodes to be a closer.

by Miggy on Mar 8, 2007 10:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Good

Even if you're being generous, Kotsay was mediocre last year, and he was arguably mediocre the year before. Goleski doesn't figure to do much, but at least now we have a spot to save him on the bench with, and this opens up spots for Stewart/Johnson to get time, which I believe will be more productive than any combination featuring Kotsay would've been.

Just a shame we're still on the hook with him for two more years and a load of cash. Man I can't wait til he and Kendall are off the books now. (Which isn't to say I don't like either player. Kotsay had great moments for us and I like him a lot, and, well, I like Kendall a lot too. But they're hugely overpaid, not terribly productive and counted on to be productive with a lot of playing time, which is a pretty poisonous combination.)

BeaneBall: This is a guy playing baseball. BeaneBall: But then, suddenly, MONEYBALL! HendryHuggins: Wait, I missed the part where moneyball.

by walk off bunt on Mar 7, 2007 8:52 PM PST reply actions  

Hopefully

Surgery will temporarily give Kotsay more flexibility in that area and allow him to regain some of his healthy glory and play out his contract.  Most people I've known who have had back surgeries tend to do well for a year or two and then end up hurting again.  

I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Mar 7, 2007 8:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Continuing on,
"Necessity is the mother of invention". From Dotel came Street. Let's hope Goleski and/or Buck is ready to shine sooner rather than later and that the single-vision version of Dan Johnson can hit. If so, losing Kotsay could be an upgrade. If not (and especially if Bradley can't stay healthy), losing Kotsay could weaken the offense and defense more than either can bear.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Mar 7, 2007 8:58 PM PST up reply actions  

All part of the plan...

Instead of witnessing his team's usual/perennial/inevitable struggles in April and May, Kotsay is gonna sit until June when the A's want to start playing baseball again.

You sly fox, Kotsay!

Let's GO OAKLAND!!!

by OaktownRajah on Mar 7, 2007 9:47 PM PST reply actions  

I'm not going to lie

even though his marginal utility isn't much higher than what he'd be used as this season, I'd like to see Marshall stick around as well as Goleski.  But realistically, with Barton and Buck throwing their names in for consideration this spring and with the Witasick/Halsey/Windsor dilemma, the roster will probably shake out as follows:

For sure (21):
Kendall
Piazza
Melhuse
Ellis
Scutaro
Crosby
Chavez
Perez
Bradley
Swisher
Stewart
Harden
Haren
Loaiza
Blanton
Kennedy
Street
Duchscherer
Calero
Embree
Gaudin

DL (2):
Kotsay
Kielty

On the bubble (8):
Johnson
Durazo
Barton
Buck
Halsey
Witasick
Goleski
Marshall

So there are 4 spots left, and a backup outfielder is still needed, if not two.  If I had to guess, the  last 4 spots will go as follows:

Johnson: He's out of options and equal value will not be received in any kind of trade.

Goleski: #1 Rule V pick, he'll make the team with the lack of outfielders.

Witasick: Guaranteed contract, throws hard.

Durazo/Buck: It's a tradeoff here.  Buck can go back to the minors if he makes the team, but you start his arby clock.  Durazo doesn't have an arby clock but affords the team less flexibility.  Having Buck on the roster also means that Swish is going to be switching positions on a more regular basis, if Garen cares about this.  My choice? Buck

It hurts to see Marshall go, but it happens.  So the 25 man looks like this:

C1 Kendall
C2 Melhuse
C3 Piazza
1B Johnson
2B Ellis
SS Crosby
SS Scutaro
3B Chavez
3B Perez
LF Stewart
LF Goleski
CF Bradley
RF Swisher
RF Buck

SP Harden
SP Haren
SP Loaiza
SP Blanton
SP Kennedy
RP Witasick
RP Gaudin
RP Embree
RP Calero
RP Duchscherer
CL Street

by noava22 on Mar 7, 2007 10:50 PM PST reply actions  

let's see how many ANers

have the typing skills necessary to write down the entire 25 man roster.  
go!

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Mar 8, 2007 2:03 AM PST reply actions  

I won't be back on AN til

the 2008.  Decided to finally get all my fingers fixed, the bones replaced by graphite implants.

rip 2006, it was nice while it lasted.

by ak_A on Mar 8, 2007 7:16 AM PST reply actions  

I'm very sorry to hear this

Kotsay has always impressed me as one of the smartest players we have, with excellent baseball instincts.

I understand where everyone's coming from about wishing he's had the surgery in November, but we don't have access to his medical records and the advice of the various docs he's consulted.   I don't know much about back problems and thankfully have not experienced them myself, but what I've consistently heard is that they're very tricky to fix.  Surgery can make the condition different -- not necessarily better.   The decision to go ahead with the surgery might not be based on assurances of a good outcome but rather the lack of any other options.  

I really hope that the surgery is a success and that Mark is back on the field playing without pain in the second half.  But we have to consider the possibility that this is a career-ending decision he's made.  

"(Zito) swings like a girl and runs like a woman." -- Dan Haren, January 27, 2007.

by Englishmajor on Mar 8, 2007 8:28 AM PST reply actions  

Well written EM...

and I agree with everything you said.

by IM4Oakgal on Mar 8, 2007 4:52 PM PST up reply actions  

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