Open Thread - Spring Training: Game 17
Give me a "K"!
Give me an "E"!
Give me an "N"!
<repeat with each letter of "KENNEDY">
Yes, it's Spring Training. You can't take things too much to heart. For instance, it's not like Rich Harden will be a mean, green, strike-out machine during the regular season, and it's not like Kennedy will really sport a 47.65 ERA during the real games, right? RIGHT?!
Our chosen fifth starter takes the mound today for the A's. I'm torn between wanting him to do well, because I would like the A's to get some wins from the fifth spot, and between wanting him to be just awful, so he can move back to the pen, where I cheered loudly for him and we made up nicknames that didn't have 'you suck' as part of them.
A's offense got started late yesterday, but at least it got started. I was a little worried there for a second. You can either worry about your pitching staff OR your offense, but not both, or it's going to be a loooong season.
Post away! Go A's!
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anybody know if this game will be broadcast
on 1550am/106.fm? (not that I've had much luck getting the games on fm).
Cactus League Baseball on the radio!
1550 am broadcast starts at 11:30am for Marty Lurie. 106.9 will prolly join at 12 for the A's pregame coverage. Game starts at 1:05 pm PT.
Enjoy.
I'm listening to Marty Lurie show as I type ..
.. on KYCY {SF-1550am} .. and the MLB Audio picks up the feed from KIFR {106.9fm} or sometimes KYCY {even though it shows KIFR on the MLB Multimedia page} ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Also if you miss Marty Lurie and want to listen
.. online they upload the show to:
http://www.loveofthegameproductions.com/
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah I don't know why that is...
Marty Lurie's show is part of the A's broadcast so it should be on 106.9 but it isn't.
by OaktownRajah on Mar 17, 2007 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Pregame on the FM station is kicking in right now
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Does anyone know where I would be able to...
watch the AAA game today?
by iloveoakland on Mar 17, 2007 11:36 AM PDT reply actions
Baseballgirl Says ..
You can either worry about your pitching staff OR your offense, but not both, or it's going to be a loooong season.
I am still relatively new to AN but judging from what I've seen - on AN we worry about Everything baby! Even the Announcers' performance! .. {g} .. :):)
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 11:45 AM PDT reply actions
Yeah!
Fire Cotroneo Now!!
by OaktownRajah on Mar 17, 2007 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
In other news...
Nice win by the GS Dubs last nite. Playoffs baby!
Robert Buan = Genius
Send Gaudin back to the rotation.
Is Mike Mitchell a SP or RP?
RP
hard throwing righty, hasn't yet played above double-A level. Has an excellent slider and sinker. and he's 25 years old.
Sounds like a Saarloos.
Maybe this guy is why Kirk was traded away.
by OaktownRajah on Mar 17, 2007 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, bbg,
I'm beginning to fear that the F in JFK will be meant in a bad way this season.
Kennedy will give up 5 runs in the first inning..
then Geren will finally take him out of the rotation plans.
ST doesn't mean much for the veterans ..
.. but if he chokes in April-May, then we gotta go something ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Correction: gotta DO something ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
gameday?
If I have to do calc revisions, I'd really like to watch the game. Just to pretend that I'm excited about calc. Transferred excitement?
Whatever. Does anyone have the gameday link?
Ricky Weeks an infield single
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:07 PM PDT reply actions
Chavvy would have had that.
by OaktownRajah on Mar 17, 2007 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
here we go - single by hardy
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:08 PM PDT reply actions
This is not the way to start.
The A's can't get a DP to save their lives.
base hit by prince fielder, 1-0 brewers
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:09 PM PDT reply actions
Lovable Anagram Man is Back !!
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Jeezus..
Joe K gives up more runs before outs than I have ever seen.
Bill Hall double 2-0 brewers
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:11 PM PDT reply actions
Joe K has given up 25 hits in ..
.. 7 and a third innings ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Joe K sucks
by iloveoakland on Mar 17, 2007 1:12 PM PDT reply actions
God dammit.
2-0 Mil no outs. 4 consecutive hits.
Can we just clone Harden, please?
obviously their prospect hating GM
isn't paying attention to billingsley's k:bb ratio.
well, either that or you're not.
4-0 brewers now, johnny estradi single
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:15 PM PDT reply actions
estrada? sp?
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
At this point, the question seems to be
Damn, I hate being right all the time.
Kennedy will give up 5 runs in the first inning..
Is that code for,
Well all i know is that Kennedy is not right.
by OaktownRajah on Mar 17, 2007 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
another hit, estrada scores
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:17 PM PDT reply actions
Make it 27 hits
Adam Melhuse:
Ashamed Mule
Mauled Shame
In non-anagram related news, Joe Kennedy's spring is actually getting worse. Good grief.
Ashamed mule. Perfection!
Since when did he learn to do that?
by iloveoakland on Mar 17, 2007 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Finally!
Well, its better to be down early.
Possible trade targets?
Brad Penney
Jon Lieber
Mark Prior? (Do we want to take a chance on him? Could be expensive (cash wise) and his career could be over, but on the other side, it could be getting an ace for... Kennedy?)
Maybe we could try to acquire the loser of the WhiteSox 5th Starter slot, Danks or Flloyd?
Or maybe Mark Buehrle?
Pencil in an 'L' every fifth start
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
OK, we don't need to
We will need to play .900 ball ..
.. when Kennedy isn't starting ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Swisher K's
.. too much ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:27 PM PDT reply actions
Especially when the bases are loaded...
and the count is 3-0.
by OaktownRajah on Mar 17, 2007 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
He is absolutely HORRIBLE !!
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
it stayed the same
lots of runs divided by zero outs.
Piazza homers
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:29 PM PDT reply actions
Yay!!
Piazza homers! 5-2 A's.
Boy they needed that one.
PIAZZA!
by iloveoakland on Mar 17, 2007 1:29 PM PDT reply actions
i feel a W
this is a dangerous lineup, with both melhuse and goleski starting.
randy ROFL at that remark
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
TWO POINTS ALL AT ONCE!!!
-Cindi.
BOOO!
by iloveoakland on Mar 17, 2007 1:31 PM PDT reply actions
Classic A's rally killing.
Thank you Melheuse.
Kennedy's coming along--
<pours another drink>
25 man roster as I would do it
C1 Kendall
1B Durazo
2B Ellis
3B Chavez
SS Crosby
LF Buck
CF Bradley
RF Swisher
DH Piazza
C2 Melhuse
IF Scutaro
IF Perez
OF Stewart (Kielty DL)
SP Harden
SP Haren
SP Loaiza
SP Blanton
SP Windsor
RP Street
RP Duchscherer
RP Calero
RP Gaudin
RP Embree
RP Kennedy
RP Witasick
Halsey to AAA and DJ gone?
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
not happening
halsey will be in AAA as the 6th starter, but if nothing changes with DJ and durazo, DJ will get the first chance, with durazo in AAA. i don't necessarily think he'll do much with it, but it makes sense.
Just wondering, Zonis...
I view it like this
Windsor is a prospect, and he has potential to be a good starter, maybe a peak of #3 at best.
Basically, if I had the choice between "might be bad, but even so expirience will make him get better" and "will be bad, and much more valuable in relief", I'll take the former.
wtf, buck??
i think zonis has some list making disease. i'd love to know what you think the 25 man roster and lineup will look like tomorrow, zonis. and the next day. what did you think it should be on june 17, 2002?
my thought on this is like so
Stewart is a 4th outfielder. He's somewhat like Payton, except that Payton will play better defense and can play CF and won't get injured, and will hit for more power, while Stewart will get on base more and hit for better average.
But he is still better suited to be a 4th outfielder, and he'll be pretty bad as an everyday left fielder.
I think that Buck is ready and I think he will outpreform Stewart.
And as we will most likely have a large slew of rookies comming up soon, most of which project to be average or good players, and not superstars, its best to stagger their entrance to the big leagues.
The reason being that it is best to lose a guy every year then half your team all at once. And likewise its better to have the growing pains of one or two rookies than 4.
Those soon to be rookies I am refering to are Barton, Buck, Suzuki (replacing Kendall in 08), and our likely 08 5th starter whomever that is.
i want adam melhuse OFF the this team
just like i have the last two years.
he's older than kendall and hit well once like four freaking years ago. it's time to move on. brown or baker couldn't do any worse.
I agree: I've seen Brown and Baker
no, they can do it even better than melhuse
i can absolutely guarantee you that either brown or baker could put up an OPS below 700 this year without being 35 years old.
there is another aspect to this
Baker or Brown have little to no MLB expiriance.
When Suzuki comes up, it would be best to have a backup catcher with some MLB expirience and some knowledge of the staff. Melhuse SHOULD be gone in 2008. So why not have Baker or Brown be the backup this year, get that expiriance, so we don't have a tandom rookie pair of catchers?
pretty much agree on most
except I'd start Stewart in LF and Buck in AAA. Unless absolutely necessary to have him in Oakland it wouldn't hurt to get him regular playing time at the AAA level for a while. Preferable to have him there at least til AS break so as not to start the arby clock.
Kennedy appears to have settled down a bit, thank goodness. I confess to not being sold on Windsor.
Windsor isn't MLB material IMHO
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
i think it's a bit too early to say that
but it's possible. either way, he shouldn't be our #5 starter right now.
goleski - base hit!
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:43 PM PDT reply actions
goleski needs to make this team
we have no offense and half our outfielders are injured, how hard can it be.
just hit .250 over the next two weeks dude.
bold kennedy prediction
he will not get zito money next year
I'm reserving judgment, X-box.
ahem
"The body felt good," he said. "The results aren't there still. ... Today I just wasn't putting guys away. I had a lot of 0-2, 1-2 counts, but I just couldn't finish them off."
"I know I'm a good pitcher," he said. "I know I can get outs. ... Hopefully I can turn things around and get ready for the season. I think I'll be OK. Just gotta keep battling."
Pencil in an 'L' every fifth start
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
30 hits allowed in less than 10 ST innings ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
now he walks in a run
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Ken and Vince keep calling the
1st and 3rd inning pitching "the Kennedy impersonator." But when that sucky pitching has been the norm it begs the question of whether it's really him...at least this spring.
I'm wondering: could the weather have anything to do with it? (desperately grasping at straws here) Haren had a lousy spring 2005, with the explanation that his splitter wasn't biting in the dry air...
in order to be effective Kennedy needs to be able to whip his pitches into the lower corners. Once his pitches flatten he becomes very hittable. When I saw him start two years ago he was fine the first time and a half through the order, or the first 70 or so pitches. After that they began to murder the ball. But he seems unable to locate his pitches this spring.
it's the real Joe K
.. he just sucks as a starter, always has since coming to the A's ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
He's Joe Kennedy.
He's the real Joe Kennedy. All the 2nd inning Joe Kennedys are just imitating.
by Philip Christy on Mar 17, 2007 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Bold prediction:
two more runs scored by brewers :(
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
And we'll never stop hearing
about the 157th gunman on the grassy knoll.
Lou Merloni:
Lunier Loom
Or Linoleum
Null Roomie
Our Ill Omen
Lion or Mule?
Our Elm Loin
Mole Oil Run
kennedy
![]()
now more dead than the dead kennedys
if we don't get rid of kennedy as starter
.. we have to play .800 or .900 ball in his non-starts to compensate ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
jay marshall retired six in a row
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
brewers stopped scoring after Joe K left ..
.. anyone else notice that? .. {g} ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 2:30 PM PDT reply actions
It seems like everything
Harden, Haren, Loaiza, Blanton, Gaudin
Embree, Marshall, Kennedy
Street, Duke, Calero, Witasick
Looks better to me than anything we're looking at right now. (And if Gaudin didn't impress, you'd just be back to where we are.)
absolutely
i've been pushing gaudin for #5 starter since last april or may.
and i'd still love to see jay marshall (and goleski) make this team.
From the getgo I did not like the idea ..
.. of taking Kennedy out of the bullpen .. billy beane is a smart GM why would he go along with this? And now after Kennedy so obviously doesn't have it, is BB and A's Staff gonna stick with this gameplan going into April-May?
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
no pitching, no offense ..
.. real recipe for success guys .. {g} ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Question for me is ..
.. is this just ST or are we really gonna suck as a team this year? .. {g} ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 2:47 PM PDT reply actions
Ah But Melhuse made a productive out ..
.. we're only behind 100 runs, right? .. {g} ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
T-Buck K's
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Merloni pops out no score
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
No Trade Bait
Obviously the A's need to trade for a fifth starter. Problem is, there's hardly any trade bait left, what with Kotsay and Kielty injured and Kennedy's value, even as a reliever, having dropped precipitously. Also, with DJ proving he's an AAAA player, the A's can ill afford to trade Durazo. The only bait left now is Melhuse, along with maybe Perez and prospects, and there aren't that many of them.
The Kennedy experiment is looking an awful lot like the Rhodes experiment.
by richwol on Mar 17, 2007 3:02 PM PDT reply actions
how about that dunk
louisville making me look good so far (i've got them going to the final four).
i spoke too soon...
Is it too late to get Zito back?
126-mil and 7 yrs too late :(
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Zito's on an even suckier team than Oakland :)
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Ruby!
I'm sorry, with this anemic A's offense they can't afford to ignore a healthy hungry Holy Grail
We are gonna really suck in '07 unless ..
.. the A's Staff makes some bold moves ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Holy Grail:
Hail Glory!
A Hill Orgy (!)
Lay Ho Girl (!)
Gay Hi-Roll (!)
Gray Ill Ho (!)
Rag Ho Lily (!)
Go Ray Hill!
Girly Halo (? Angels ramifications here?)
Those're some good ones.
by Philip Christy on Mar 17, 2007 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
:) :) :)
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Beane using Mysterious Sabermetrics to justify?
.. keeping such a sucky fifth starter candidate? ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
don't know ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions
goleski pops up
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
How many home runs?
Is Pizza sauce gonna have this year?
by yadamiked on Mar 17, 2007 3:40 PM PDT reply actions
more imptly how many doubles, RBIs?
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
They'll feel more at home
When they get back to Fremont
by yadamiked on Mar 17, 2007 3:42 PM PDT reply actions
that's not true
:) rofl again
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
We need to...
Turn a couple more nobodys' into some stars...........again.
by yadamiked on Mar 17, 2007 3:48 PM PDT reply actions
Game over brewers win 11-4
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 3:57 PM PDT reply actions
how did DiNardo look?
From gameday he seemed to be scuffling a bit. What do all you ANers think of him?
a decent lefty
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Here are his stats ..
.. from Yahoo Sports:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7268
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
On the plus side
We got 12 hits in 36 at bats. Gaudin struck out both batters he faced. Piazza is still killing the ball, and driving in runs. Even Dan Johnson went 2 for 3.
But Kennedy is the suckiest suck who ever sucked. Remember: Joe Kennedy sucks = Seek Second Junkey. Which I take to mean as: find some other loser to be the fifth starter! Cuz any other loser will be better than Kennedy.
Agreed kennedy gave us NO chance to win
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
You need your fifth starter to be a .500 pitcher
.. not an "automatic L" pitcher ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
The Duke should be in the starting rotation
He has the potential to be one of the best 4th or 5th starters and he would like to have the chance. With all the struggles of Blanton and Kennedy, I can't figure out why the A's aren't willing to "think outside the box" more and try different alternatives available like Gaudin and/or the Duke.
Make the whole bullpen the 5th starter
It already is anyway
by yadamiked on Mar 17, 2007 4:28 PM PDT reply actions
Spring Training! Spring Training!
Everybody chill! It will all work out fine! Rich Harden will have a huge breakout COMPLETE season Cy Young and Bobby Crosby will win the comeback award/mvp. Optimism abounds! Go A's!
by A'sfansince1970 on Mar 17, 2007 4:53 PM PDT reply actions
just to let you know
the highest ERA an A's starter as ever had in spring traing (since 2002) is in the 7.00 range,and that was from loaiza and halama,joe kennedy's 20.00ERA is off the charts of suckiness,even for spring training
by J Rod @ Athletics Nation on Mar 17, 2007 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
i guess i have a bad sense of humor
since i laughed when reading this from rotoworld:"They may have to pluck a Shawn Chacon or a Chan Ho Park"
at least halsey keeps us into games from time to time
by J Rod @ Athletics Nation on Mar 17, 2007 4:55 PM PDT reply actions
Yes, and Loaiza looked sucky too in the first
half of last year. Kennedy will turn it around before camp ends and Harden won't strike everybody out. It's spring freaking training, people! Wouldn't you rather we suck now rather then the real season? The Devil Dogs have a great spring training record, right?
by A'sfansince1970 on Mar 17, 2007 5:06 PM PDT reply actions
of course it's spring training
we all know that.
I for one would like to base my optimism on some performance. That doesn't mean winning meaningless spring training games, but it does mean improving pitching and hitting as the team gets set for the season.
My doubts about Kennedy come from having seen him as a starter, not only his problems in spring training. His poor performance in games that are meant to help prepare him to do better in the season doesn't inspire confidence, nor does the A's continued poor hitting with RISP -- but if none of that concerns you then that's just fine.
The problem, as I see it,
Whatever he's throwing, it's either straight as an arrow, down the middle, lacking velocity, or a combination thereof. The reports are that his velocity is fine, and the desert air doesn't explain a lack of good movement or location with the fastball or changeup (it mostly affects guys who rely on the splitter or on sharp breaking stuff).
The problem is how extreme Kennedy's failures have been. I wouldn't be concerned if he had a 9.00 ERA, and a 9.00 ERA is bad. But we're halfway through spring training now and the guy is giving up about three hits and five runs an inning. Gak.
The A's are making a big mistake ..
.. last time Kennedy was starter on a consistent basis, was back in Aug/Sept of '05 -- and we lost the division to the Angels. Wife and I attended the clinching game in Oakland, and yes, guess what, it was old Joe who started that game. He is simply awful as a starter -- we are on the primrose path to lose the division again in '07 if we are redoing the same thing hoping to get different results ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 17, 2007 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Thankfully it IS still only ST ..
.. to meliorate my comment, I'm not saying we lost the division in '05 due to Kennedy alone {nor did I wish to rekindle debate on the '05 season} -- just that this awful ST performance by Kennedy REMINDS me of '05. It also brings back memories of the Angels in '06, when they wasted so much of the first half of the season with Jeff Weaver before moving his younger brother Jered into the rotation. Jeff was awful, and his performance didn't help the Angels' cause.
I just hope the A's don't waste too many games in April-May before we have to conclude once again that Kennedy "doesn't have it" as a starter. Given Loaiza's and Blanton's weak performances thus far, we are looking more like the Twins' rotation right now, with one proven ace {Harden-Santana} and a bunch of unknowns -- well Haren is reliable ..
But the other posters are right to point out it is still only ST -- yet if Joe_K could just get somebody OUT without giving up five runs an inning {as Nico suggested}, it would give A's fans SOME comfort .. {g} ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 18, 2007 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Harden can't be compared to Santana
until he can pitch a whole season largely injury-free, I'm afraid. But I agree with the rest of what you say. In fact, I feel very good about Haren's ability to be at least a #2 and perhaps even a #1 in a starting rotaation.
Here's some geren-kennedy remarks from sfgate.com
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...
"Manager Bob Geren remains confident in Joe Kennedy even after his latest rough spring training outing."
.....
"It's spring training. You have to battle through it and figure things out," Kennedy said. "When you're in a rut you have to look for answers and sometimes the answers aren't there. I thought I had it in the second inning. I just have to keep on battling."
......
I just hope we not having to hear a similar excuse line early in the regular season {April-May} ..
by Randy Bell on Mar 18, 2007 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions
That's sort of true
As one who was there, Kennedy did have it in the second inning. He gave up 5 in the first and 4 in the third, recording only one out. The second inning, he did have it. But it didn't last.
What a pair of stinkers...
Just about the only benefit to being at the last two games has been bumping into fellow ANers, eating overpriced ballpark food, and catching sun, because the A's are showing me nothing but nonsense. Kennedy was weak today, with a capital suck. Piazza drilled a 2-run shot, but we were already down 5-0 when he did it. If we continue to give up 4 or more in the top of the first through Sunday and Monday, then maybe Nico will have been right when he said the games' results were clearly my fault.
Hanging out in 97-degree Phoenix...
Did I blame you for the heat?
I see Mister Kenedy is
holding in form....jeebus...STraining, yada, yada, yada... he'll get serious once the real games start... oh, sure, right.
Purchased an HD TV today.....and picked up the HD cable box after turning in my old one....So at least once in a while on ESPN I may see the green and gold in their definitive colors. The irrating part of the purchase was that I smugly presented a Two Hundred dollar gift certificate I had for the outlet...only to be told they expired back on Dec. 31. Only been holding them for two freaking years and this was the first time I noticed that. jeebus!
You can see the A's on FSNHD
Like 50 games a year are in HD, I think.
by yadamiked on Mar 17, 2007 8:56 PM PDT reply actions

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